Author Topic: Trade Deadline 2017  (Read 108303 times)

Navin R Johnson

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #500 on: July 31, 2017, 10:44:40 am »
Has this been a slower than usual trade deadline?  Sure feels that way.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #501 on: July 31, 2017, 10:48:49 am »
Sad!

Frankly, I think this team is completely perfect, and that management will be throwing away the future if they trade for anyone. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #502 on: July 31, 2017, 10:57:27 am »
Frankly, I think this team is completely perfect, and that management will be throwing away the future if they trade for anyone.
I don't have a crystal ball but I do know time will tell if the game will be won on the field or in the boardroom.
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hostros7

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #503 on: July 31, 2017, 11:11:00 am »
I don't have a crystal ball but I do know time will tell if the game will be won on the field or in the boardroom.

If we're making incendiary, cliff-hanger generalizations about the how the events of today will shape our impressions about how the organization is run, I will offer the following: the game will be won in excel or proprietary software before it is ever played through Monte Carlo simulations, luddites!

 

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #504 on: July 31, 2017, 11:18:31 am »
According to a McTaggart McReTweet, the Tigers aren't dealing Verlander today.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #505 on: July 31, 2017, 11:19:46 am »
If we're making incendiary, cliff-hanger generalizations about the how the events of today will shape our impressions about how the organization is run, I will offer the following: the game will be won in excel or proprietary software before it is ever played through Monte Carlo simulations, luddites!

Good pitching beats good hitting.  It's why Altuve's hacking is so effective. 
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hostros7

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #506 on: July 31, 2017, 12:03:06 pm »
Quote
Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan  3m3 minutes ago
More
 It's getting increasingly harder to see Yu Darvish going to the Dodgers. Teams simply aren't matching up despite plenty of discussions.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #507 on: July 31, 2017, 12:07:36 pm »
Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #508 on: July 31, 2017, 12:10:05 pm »
Quote
Jonathan Mayo‏Verified account @JonathanMayo  2m2 minutes ago
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 Hearing @Orioles def looking to move Britton. @Astros front-runners now? @Indians not likely @Astros Top 30: http://atmlb.com/2ud2puk

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #509 on: July 31, 2017, 12:12:11 pm »
I'm driving back from SA. I very much appreciate all the updates. 
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Jacksonian

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #510 on: July 31, 2017, 12:18:38 pm »
Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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Can't imagine they'd give up much to get him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #511 on: July 31, 2017, 12:19:09 pm »
Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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I'm watching MLB Network and they said the deal is close...

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #512 on: July 31, 2017, 12:22:04 pm »
Is Stroman coming with him?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #513 on: July 31, 2017, 12:24:25 pm »
I'm watching MLB Network and they said the deal is close...

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #514 on: July 31, 2017, 12:26:35 pm »
I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

I agree, and if true, I think we should applaud Crane for being willing to eat that money.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #515 on: July 31, 2017, 12:26:45 pm »
I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.
I hope so.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #516 on: July 31, 2017, 12:27:23 pm »
Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.

.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #517 on: July 31, 2017, 12:28:35 pm »
I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

Sipp was a great story there for awhile. He was crucial in '15. I wish him the best. (If he's gone)

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #518 on: July 31, 2017, 12:29:10 pm »
Can't imagine they'd give up much to get him.
Liriano for Laureano would be poetic.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #519 on: July 31, 2017, 12:29:27 pm »
I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

He's been no better than Sipp this year.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #520 on: July 31, 2017, 12:29:57 pm »
.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

Sipp's this year is .217.
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MusicMan

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #521 on: July 31, 2017, 12:31:13 pm »
.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

.292/.387/.492 vs RHB.

One ping only, please.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #522 on: July 31, 2017, 12:31:46 pm »
Britton's skill set is the best available, but the injuries make me nervous. We need a horse at the back of the pen who is capable of taking the ball in crucial situations several times in a potential playoff series (ITMI), and he's been handled like a porcelain miniature pony all season by the O's.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #523 on: July 31, 2017, 12:31:49 pm »
I agree, and if true, I think we should applaud Crane for being willing to eat that money.

Good.  I had hoped he found his mojo but there just has been no indication of that in ST or at any point this year beyond a game or two blip of non-suckiness. 
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #524 on: July 31, 2017, 12:33:37 pm »
Britton's skill set is the best available, but the injuries make me nervous. We need a horse at the back of the pen who is capable of taking the ball in crucial situations several times in a potential playoff series (ITMI), and he's been handled like a porcelain miniature pony all season by the O's.


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How's he been against those the Astros could face in the playoffs?


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Nate Colbert

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #525 on: July 31, 2017, 12:35:30 pm »
Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 1m ago
One source describes #Astros’ pursuit of Britton as “serious.” Executive with one of clubs involved believes deal with HOU is close.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #526 on: July 31, 2017, 12:36:14 pm »
Liriano deal is done.
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #527 on: July 31, 2017, 12:38:11 pm »
Sipp's this year is .217.

Oh, great! Let's keep him!
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #528 on: July 31, 2017, 12:38:54 pm »
Liriano deal is done.

"An OF" is going to Toronto.

Can't imagine it's Fisher.  Probably one of Kemp/Laureano/Teoscar.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #529 on: July 31, 2017, 12:39:06 pm »
Oh, great! Let's keep him!
Too late. Need room for the new pitcher.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #530 on: July 31, 2017, 12:40:50 pm »
"An OF" is going to Toronto.

Can't imagine it's Fisher.  Probably one of Kemp/Laureano/Teoscar.

Could be Tucker the older.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #531 on: July 31, 2017, 12:45:13 pm »
I guess I'm a baseball fan again if I'm willingly listening to Christopher Russo hoping to see trade news.

fml

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #532 on: July 31, 2017, 12:46:08 pm »
Too late. Need room for the new pitcher.


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There are several candidates to vacate a spot.

Liriano is a rental. Teoscar?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #533 on: July 31, 2017, 12:46:52 pm »
Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #534 on: July 31, 2017, 12:50:43 pm »
It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #535 on: July 31, 2017, 12:51:14 pm »
Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

Tags tweets it's Nori and another MiLBer


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #536 on: July 31, 2017, 12:51:19 pm »
Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

Tags says it's Aoki and a minor leaguer.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #537 on: July 31, 2017, 12:51:23 pm »
It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

Shit.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #538 on: July 31, 2017, 12:51:28 pm »
Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)
Wow it is.


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Ebby Calvin

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #539 on: July 31, 2017, 12:51:54 pm »
It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

Dammit
Don't think twice, it's alright.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #540 on: July 31, 2017, 12:52:14 pm »
Shit.  Let's try this again...

I hope we don't get Grey and Britton today.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #541 on: July 31, 2017, 12:53:07 pm »
I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.
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Andyzipp

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #542 on: July 31, 2017, 12:53:20 pm »
Shit.

Disappointed, because I like guys that don't strike out. But I guess the team likes what it sees in Fisher.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #543 on: July 31, 2017, 12:54:46 pm »
I'll miss aoki's approach and ABs at the bottom of the order.

Guess this means we won't see fisher moved as part of any big trade today.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #544 on: July 31, 2017, 12:55:52 pm »
.292/.387/.492 vs RHB.

One ping only, please.

His road numbers definitely leave something to be desired.

Sorry to see Aoki go
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #545 on: July 31, 2017, 12:55:57 pm »
Bet y'all we could have had Wilson for Fisher, and we said no.

Fisher-Springer-Reddick plus Marisnik.

Dammit. Aoki helped this team a bunch.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #546 on: July 31, 2017, 12:57:02 pm »
I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.
Salary offset, I figure.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #547 on: July 31, 2017, 12:57:31 pm »
I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.

This is a joke, right? Nothing. They like Fosher more for the stretch run.

I hate it.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #548 on: July 31, 2017, 01:00:54 pm »
This is a joke, right? Nothing. They like Fosher more for the stretch run.

I hate it.

Of course it's a joke.  Still it stings to go from a WS contender to no post-season.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #549 on: July 31, 2017, 01:01:41 pm »
Salary offset, I figure.

A bit. $1.8MM left on Aoki's contract for remainder of year. Liriano with $4.5MM left this season.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #550 on: July 31, 2017, 01:01:45 pm »
I don't mind giving up Aoki, I just don't want Liriano.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #551 on: July 31, 2017, 01:01:59 pm »
Of course it's a joke.  Still it stings to go from a WS contender to no post-season.

One of the reasons I hate it.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #552 on: July 31, 2017, 01:15:52 pm »
Guess we won't be dealing Fisher, looks like the rookie is gonna get a lot of ABs from now through the playoffs.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #553 on: July 31, 2017, 01:17:12 pm »
43 walks in 82 innings, 5.88 era and 1.62 whip.
Into what theoretical playoff game scenario does Hinch insert Liriano and you say Advantage Astros?
Looks like a trade for the sake of making a trade.
Sad to see Aoki walk the plank. He fit in well and did his job well - a much better fielder and base runner than I expected.   
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #554 on: July 31, 2017, 01:17:30 pm »
Jumbo Diaz agrees to a minor league deal:

Astros, Jumbo Diaz Agree To Minors Deal
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/astros-jumbo-diaz-agree-to-minors-deal.html

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #555 on: July 31, 2017, 01:20:53 pm »
Jumbo Diaz agrees to a minor league deal:

Astros, Jumbo Diaz Agree To Minors Deal
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/astros-jumbo-diaz-agree-to-minors-deal.html

There's a big splash.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #556 on: July 31, 2017, 01:21:16 pm »
I loved watching Aoki bat. Gonna miss him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #557 on: July 31, 2017, 01:21:59 pm »
Reports are Teoscar is also heading to Toronto in the deal. wtf?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #558 on: July 31, 2017, 01:22:41 pm »
Reports are Teoscar is also heading to Toronto in the deal. wtf?

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Can players on the DL actually be dealt now?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #559 on: July 31, 2017, 01:26:53 pm »
In Luhnow I trust.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #560 on: July 31, 2017, 01:27:33 pm »
In Luhnow I trust.
+1


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #561 on: July 31, 2017, 01:27:38 pm »
Liriano vs Sipp. If you look at OPS rather than just BAA, a decided advantage to Liriano:

Career vs lefties:
Liriano .221/.295/.305     .600 OPS
Sipp .221/.300/.410         .710 OPS


2017:
Liriano .230/.254/.361     .615 OPS
Sipp .217/.288/.467         .755 OPS

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #562 on: July 31, 2017, 01:28:52 pm »
Can players on the DL actually be dealt now?

He's not on the DL.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #563 on: July 31, 2017, 01:29:04 pm »
I know we have a surplus of OF, but that's a weird deal.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #564 on: July 31, 2017, 01:30:53 pm »
There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #565 on: July 31, 2017, 01:31:29 pm »
I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #566 on: July 31, 2017, 01:31:38 pm »
I applaud Nori Aoki. I will miss him. He was a good Astro.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #567 on: July 31, 2017, 01:31:53 pm »
Seems like they'd rather play FIsher than Aoki.   So when George comes back they were going to have to do something, this frees that sopt up.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #568 on: July 31, 2017, 01:33:44 pm »
There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

He was on the 40-man roster and thus couldn't be claimed in the Rule 5.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #569 on: July 31, 2017, 01:34:03 pm »
There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

Not rule V.  He's on the 40-man roster.  He's got options, I believe.  At the end of the day there was no room for him on the big club short term and long term.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #570 on: July 31, 2017, 01:34:34 pm »
What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.
Not about the money. Luhnow believes this team is better with Lariano.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #571 on: July 31, 2017, 01:36:10 pm »
I'm guessing that Luhnow is projecting that Liriano will be much better as a reliever than a starter.  As a reliever he can focus on his best pitches and only a few batters.  Comparing Sipp's stats as a reliever to Liriano's stats as a starter isn't exactly apples to apples in terms of their stuff.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #572 on: July 31, 2017, 01:36:37 pm »
I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

If Fisher scuffles and is not consistently contributing productive ABs, Aoki is going to be sorely missed. Let's hope the kid is ready.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #573 on: July 31, 2017, 01:38:28 pm »
Liriano vs Sipp. If you look at OPS rather than just BAA, a decided advantage to Liriano:

Career vs lefties:
Liriano .221/.295/.305     .600 OPS
Sipp .221/.300/.410         .710 OPS


2017:
Liriano .230/.254/.361     .615 OPS
Sipp .217/.288/.467         .755 OPS

And that's with Liriano starting. Perhaps (hopefully) his stuff will play up out of the pen.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #574 on: July 31, 2017, 01:39:50 pm »
Not about the money. Luhnow believes this team is better with Lariano.

Exactly. This has zero to do with saving money and everything to do with being desperate for another arm.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #575 on: July 31, 2017, 01:43:58 pm »
LH hitters have 61 ABs against Liriano this season. He has struck out 17 of them and walked 1.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #576 on: July 31, 2017, 01:44:08 pm »
Any chance you ride with Peacock-Liriano-Devo each taking a turn through the order, in lieu of a regular SP, in the playoffs?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #577 on: July 31, 2017, 01:48:18 pm »
Any chance you ride with Peacock-Liriano-Devo each taking a turn through the order, in lieu of a regular SP, in the playoffs?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #578 on: July 31, 2017, 01:51:35 pm »
Of course Trump has to fuck up all our baseball twitter timelines with Mooch firing news and jokes an hour before the deadline. Is baseball not America's, the America you purport to be making great again, favorite pastime?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #579 on: July 31, 2017, 01:51:40 pm »
And that's with Liriano starting. Perhaps (hopefully) his stuff will play up out of the pen.

This is a point I wanted to make. A Starter may throw four pitches. He'll be fastball/slider out of the pen. They must think his hard stuff will be good out of the bullpen.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #580 on: July 31, 2017, 01:55:02 pm »
This is a point I wanted to make. A Starter may throw four pitches. He'll be fastball/slider out of the pen. They must think his hard stuff will be good out of the bullpen.

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #581 on: July 31, 2017, 01:55:03 pm »
I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

Not a money deal
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #582 on: July 31, 2017, 01:56:00 pm »
Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

Every report I read says so.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #583 on: July 31, 2017, 01:56:05 pm »
Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

It seems generally accepted by all of punditry, so who knows.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #584 on: July 31, 2017, 01:58:27 pm »
Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

The teams have not yet announced the deal.  They won't say anything until after that.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #585 on: July 31, 2017, 02:00:30 pm »
McTag says Feliz is back up.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #586 on: July 31, 2017, 02:00:53 pm »
Yankees got Gray. Dammit.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #587 on: July 31, 2017, 02:00:57 pm »
Gray to the Yankees.   FUCK
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #588 on: July 31, 2017, 02:01:07 pm »
 Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #589 on: July 31, 2017, 02:02:23 pm »
Gray to NYY. Fuck
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:04:33 pm by JimR »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #590 on: July 31, 2017, 02:05:00 pm »
Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

4th, 8th and 12th ranked Yankees prospects

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #591 on: July 31, 2017, 02:06:13 pm »
Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

Nate, convert these players to ours, please.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #592 on: July 31, 2017, 02:07:02 pm »
McTag says Feliz is back up.

This does not give me a warm fuzzy about getting a top-flight reliever in the next 54 minutes...
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #593 on: July 31, 2017, 02:07:45 pm »
Nate, convert these players to ours, please.

Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #594 on: July 31, 2017, 02:08:33 pm »
Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.
Fowler is their 4th ranked prospect. Mateo 8th, Kaprelian 12th.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #595 on: July 31, 2017, 02:09:03 pm »
Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

If nothing else, he's stretched out and ready for innings, which is a valuable trait for an Astros reliever right now.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #596 on: July 31, 2017, 02:09:53 pm »
This does not give me a warm fuzzy about getting a top-flight reliever in the next 54 minutes...

Musgrove and Guduan are still there. We have room.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #597 on: July 31, 2017, 02:11:08 pm »
Musgrove and Guduan are still there. We have room.

And Sipp.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #598 on: July 31, 2017, 02:11:35 pm »
Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

You're being kind to Paulino in that comparison.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #599 on: July 31, 2017, 02:12:27 pm »
Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

Fisher became untradable apparently
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #600 on: July 31, 2017, 02:13:42 pm »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #601 on: July 31, 2017, 02:14:41 pm »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #602 on: July 31, 2017, 02:15:14 pm »
You're being kind to Paulino in that comparison.

He was the 54th ranked prospect in all of baseball as recently as January.

Kaprielian, BTW, is rehabbing from TJS.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:22:54 pm by Nate Colbert »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #603 on: July 31, 2017, 02:15:23 pm »
Joe Smith to the Indians. That bullpen will shut down anybody.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #604 on: July 31, 2017, 02:17:43 pm »
Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

I would have punched that ticket for Gray.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #605 on: July 31, 2017, 02:18:50 pm »
He was the 54th ranked prospect in all of baseball as recently as January.

Kaprelian, BTW, is rehabbing from TJS.

If you had told me the Astros could have acquired Gray through 2019 and not parted with Martes, Whitley, or Tucker, I would have assumed they pulled the trigger. We obviously don't know if that's the case though or if the Astros were really all that high on Sonny Gray.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #606 on: July 31, 2017, 02:20:36 pm »
Really hoping for Britton now. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #607 on: July 31, 2017, 02:28:10 pm »
Maybe some GMs don't want to trade with ours?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #608 on: July 31, 2017, 02:28:16 pm »
Really hoping for Britton now.

Wonder if we are trying for Darvish also?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #609 on: July 31, 2017, 02:30:13 pm »
Just switched to MLB Radio and they are crucifying Luhnow.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #610 on: July 31, 2017, 02:31:56 pm »
Wonder if we are trying for Darvish also?

I hope we're trying for someone beyond Liriano.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #611 on: July 31, 2017, 02:32:51 pm »
Just switched to MLB Radio and they are crucifying Luhnow.


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Because...?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #612 on: July 31, 2017, 02:33:13 pm »
Quote from: Jon Morosi
#Astros have shown interest in #Angels reliever (and ex-Astro) Bud Norris. @MLB

PLEASE trade Singleton for him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #613 on: July 31, 2017, 02:33:31 pm »
Because...?

Lack of big move


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #614 on: July 31, 2017, 02:34:38 pm »
Heyman thinks Hand is going to be dealt today.  And that the Padres are reasonable in their requests.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #615 on: July 31, 2017, 02:35:00 pm »
Lack of big move


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #616 on: July 31, 2017, 02:36:03 pm »
Heyman just now on MLBTV says Astros trying for Hand. Heyman says he thinks Padres being realistic with Hand and not expecting the elite prospects in return.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #617 on: July 31, 2017, 02:36:53 pm »
Tony Watson to Dodgers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #618 on: July 31, 2017, 02:39:03 pm »
Have the Os said they are keeping Britton? There was some doubt they would trade him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #619 on: July 31, 2017, 02:40:20 pm »
Tony Watson to Dodgers.

Hand has been better but I'm curious what the Dodgers gave up.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #620 on: July 31, 2017, 02:42:10 pm »
Dodgers pick up Watson.  Does that mean they're out on Britton?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #621 on: July 31, 2017, 02:42:18 pm »
Tony Watson to Dodgers.

A once rumored target. I had forgotten him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #622 on: July 31, 2017, 02:45:56 pm »
Because...?
Probably because he didn't sell the farm.  ESPN thinks the Astros just need a reliver.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #623 on: July 31, 2017, 02:47:32 pm »
Have the Os said they are keeping Britton? There was some doubt they would trade him.
The radio guys said Angelos wanted a big haul or no deal. I wouldn't give up Whitley or Tucker for him.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #624 on: July 31, 2017, 02:47:36 pm »
The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #625 on: July 31, 2017, 02:47:51 pm »
Is the deadline 3 pm our time?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #626 on: July 31, 2017, 02:48:20 pm »
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #627 on: July 31, 2017, 02:48:25 pm »
This year's Oliver Perez?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #628 on: July 31, 2017, 02:48:41 pm »
Jeff Passan  @JeffPassan 5m ago
Multiple GMs right now believe Yu Darvish and Zach Britton will stay put. Deadline is 18 minutes away.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #629 on: July 31, 2017, 02:50:35 pm »
The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.

But there isn't room for many prospects next year. Tucker should be ready mid-year but where is there a MiLer better than what is here? A couple of spots on pitching staff obviously.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #630 on: July 31, 2017, 02:51:53 pm »
Any word on Lance Lynn?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #631 on: July 31, 2017, 02:51:59 pm »
The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.

I think you are.

Peacock, healthy Harris, Gregerson, Devo, Martes, Giles is a solid pen. He is trying to add LHP to that.

I agree with BG reBritton.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #632 on: July 31, 2017, 02:58:51 pm »
Peacock, healthy Harris, Gregerson, Devo, Martes, Giles is a solid pen. He is trying to add LHP to that.

I'm really worried about the "healthy Harris" part of that recipe.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #633 on: July 31, 2017, 03:00:07 pm »
And nothing, how uninspiring.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #634 on: July 31, 2017, 03:00:46 pm »
It's 3:00. Commence rioting.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #635 on: July 31, 2017, 03:01:27 pm »
Shit
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #636 on: July 31, 2017, 03:01:42 pm »
I'm really worried about the "healthy Harris" part of that recipe.

Two months to go. G
He says it is better

So Baltimore and SD decided not to trade their relievers? WTF?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #637 on: July 31, 2017, 03:01:48 pm »
That was disappointing.  Much like the Astros since the All-Star break.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #638 on: July 31, 2017, 03:01:59 pm »
Cingrani?
Unga bungaed by the BBGs.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #639 on: July 31, 2017, 03:02:28 pm »
Cingrani to the Dodgers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #640 on: July 31, 2017, 03:03:06 pm »
Cingrani to the Dodgers.

I guess they couldn't satisfy on Brittan.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #641 on: July 31, 2017, 03:03:56 pm »
That was disappointing.  Much like the Astros since the All-Star break.

Much of this is injuries.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #642 on: July 31, 2017, 03:04:19 pm »
Cingrani to the Dodgers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #643 on: July 31, 2017, 03:04:30 pm »
I can't believe they didn't add a single impact guy.   
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #644 on: July 31, 2017, 03:05:50 pm »
Much of this is injuries.

I know, but when your pitching and offense are struggling at the exact same time, it makes for some ugly baseball.

I'm also impatient.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #645 on: July 31, 2017, 03:07:15 pm »
Kintzler to the Nats.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #646 on: July 31, 2017, 03:07:36 pm »
Will Luhnow talk to the press? I wish we had an insider. I thought we'd get Hand at the last minute, and yesterday I thought we'd trade Fisher for Wilson.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #647 on: July 31, 2017, 03:13:00 pm »
I'm not surprised. I just hope everyone is healthy come August.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #648 on: July 31, 2017, 03:13:42 pm »
Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #649 on: July 31, 2017, 03:13:45 pm »
I can't believe they didn't add a single impact guy.

There were not that many out there. I would love to know what went on. I know about his contract, but Verlander would have been ok with me.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #650 on: July 31, 2017, 03:14:33 pm »
Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Drum roll, please
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #651 on: July 31, 2017, 03:14:41 pm »
Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Dodgers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #652 on: July 31, 2017, 03:14:48 pm »
Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Ken Rosenthal‏Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal  30s31 seconds ago
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 Source: Darvish to #Dodgers

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #653 on: July 31, 2017, 03:15:07 pm »
Doesn't the deadline run over for a bit?  They have to have the trade agreed to by the deadline, but they don't have to announce it. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #654 on: July 31, 2017, 03:15:19 pm »
I'm not surprised. I just hope everyone is healthy come August.

September is more likely. I hope that Correa doesn't think he has to be superman and rush his recovery. A setback would be much worse than going a little slowly and only having to do it once.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #655 on: July 31, 2017, 03:15:31 pm »
Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #656 on: July 31, 2017, 03:16:24 pm »
Doesn't the deadline run over for a bit?  They have to have the trade agreed to by the deadline, but they don't have to announce it.

Right. Cosart deal was announced after deadline.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #657 on: July 31, 2017, 03:16:28 pm »
I'm getting K***n B***n flashbacks w/ Darvish in LA.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #658 on: July 31, 2017, 03:17:05 pm »
In Luhnow we trust and all, but seeing LA and NYY make huge moves with the Astros relatively standing pat is a buzzkill.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #659 on: July 31, 2017, 03:17:20 pm »
Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #660 on: July 31, 2017, 03:17:56 pm »
There were not that many out there. I would love to know what went on. I know about his contract, but Verlander would have been ok with me.

Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #661 on: July 31, 2017, 03:18:24 pm »
Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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That sucks, but the Stros can hit Darvish.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #662 on: July 31, 2017, 03:18:41 pm »
September is more likely. I hope that Correa doesn't think he has to be superman and rush his recovery. A setback would be much worse than going a little slowly and only having to do it once.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #663 on: July 31, 2017, 03:19:27 pm »
In Luhnow we trust and all, but seeing LA and NYY make huge moves with the Astros relatively standing pat is a buzzkill.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #664 on: July 31, 2017, 03:19:57 pm »
That sucks, but the Stros can hit Darvish.

Facing him again this season also means that the team has made it to the World F'in Series, which would be nice.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #665 on: July 31, 2017, 03:21:34 pm »
I'm getting K***n B***n flashbacks w/ Darvish in LA.

Your whore mouth. Shut it.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #666 on: July 31, 2017, 03:22:38 pm »
Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.

Agreed
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #667 on: July 31, 2017, 03:28:30 pm »
Oh, and LMJ back to DL. Reed up for Nori.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #668 on: July 31, 2017, 03:30:33 pm »
Hand has been better but I'm curious what the Dodgers gave up.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #669 on: July 31, 2017, 03:32:02 pm »
I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #670 on: July 31, 2017, 03:32:51 pm »
I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

Recall which expert?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #671 on: July 31, 2017, 03:34:54 pm »
Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.

It's wrong to assume that Heyman and his "sources" are infallible, but he reported that SD actually was not expecting any top-100 prospects for Hand.

Apparently, Liriano faced 61 left-handed batters this year, and walked only one and had only four hard-hit balls.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #672 on: July 31, 2017, 03:37:17 pm »
I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient. 







« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:38:53 pm by toddthebod »
Boom!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #673 on: July 31, 2017, 03:38:15 pm »
I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.
Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #674 on: July 31, 2017, 03:38:21 pm »
Recall which expert?
No, I was in an other room, listening to the TV. No GM names were mentioned. Might have been Rosenthal.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #675 on: July 31, 2017, 03:39:10 pm »
Liriano is not nothing. We needed a LHRP. We got one - just not the one most expected.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #676 on: July 31, 2017, 03:40:12 pm »
I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #677 on: July 31, 2017, 03:41:37 pm »
I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.

Have to think someone would claim him.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #678 on: July 31, 2017, 03:41:53 pm »
I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.

Cueto could be an option in this type of scenario, but the option question will still linger.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #679 on: July 31, 2017, 03:41:58 pm »
Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?
Nothing specific. i probably read too much into  it,
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #680 on: July 31, 2017, 03:49:19 pm »
I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

Pitchers the club would have acquired in a trade are also tired.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #681 on: July 31, 2017, 03:51:00 pm »
I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

I wouldn't look for a Hou-StL deal anytime soon.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #682 on: July 31, 2017, 03:51:48 pm »
Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?

He's smarter than them.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #683 on: July 31, 2017, 03:51:56 pm »
Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #684 on: July 31, 2017, 03:55:04 pm »
I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

This gloom and doom shit should be deleted. Buy a team and show me how it is done. You have ZERO knowledge of the negotiations. There are two full months to go.

This is Ray Kerby stuff you posted.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #685 on: July 31, 2017, 03:55:23 pm »
Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

I'm sort of expecting Luhnow to spend at least a half-inning with Todd and Geoff tonight.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #686 on: July 31, 2017, 03:56:14 pm »
Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #687 on: July 31, 2017, 03:58:48 pm »
Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #688 on: July 31, 2017, 04:01:24 pm »
I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

I don't blame them for wanting Tucker and Whitley, and I don't blame Luhnow for not giving them up.  I also wanted a deal, but if other GMs weren't willing to come off of them, there is little Luhnow could have done.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #689 on: July 31, 2017, 04:09:17 pm »
Standing pat, except for Liriano? I'm alright with that. In Luhnow I trust.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #690 on: July 31, 2017, 04:14:53 pm »
I don't blame them for wanting Tucker and Whitley, and I don't blame Luhnow for not giving them up.  I also wanted a deal, but if other GMs weren't willing to come off of them, there is little Luhnow could have done.

During his podcast with Jonah Keri, Jonah asked Luhnow about a personal mantra or life advice to wrap things up. Luhnow said that he and his family like the motto "trust the math." He elaborated that more or less what that meant to him was that everyone should be aware of all the facts and information available and put that in context to make good decisions. He acknowledged that no one can control the outcomes but that he did have the agency to place the bets and that he wanted to make the best bets possible given all the data, information, history, and context. As you more or less said, Luhnow likely had a variety of scenarios mapped out and had determined what he was and was not willing to trade, and he remained disciplined and didn't stretch, which seems consistent with "trusting the math."


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #691 on: July 31, 2017, 04:15:00 pm »
I would like to know what Oakland wanted for Gray. I did not want Darvish, no matter how good he is.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #692 on: July 31, 2017, 04:22:59 pm »
I would like to know what Oakland wanted for Gray. I did not want Darvish, no matter how good he is.

I didn't want Darvish either.  I also don't think he is good this year.  I'm interested in what have you done lately.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #693 on: July 31, 2017, 04:23:33 pm »
"Buenos Dias, shitheads."

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #694 on: July 31, 2017, 04:24:36 pm »
I worried more about over paying than I did standing pat.   Gray and Britten both especially worried me bc I knew we'd likely have to over pay to get one of them....which normally would've been fine, but then the past injury issues with each scared me to death.

Give me a healthy lineup that includes Correa, and a healthy Keuchel that can shutdown the opposition over 7+ IP, and I'll take my chances.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #695 on: July 31, 2017, 04:25:53 pm »
I think there's a widely held belief that a GM of a club (with the Astros record) needs to construct a club for the playoffs.   I wonder if Luhnow buys that goal, at least enough to give up top guys. Maybe he views the playoffs as the press portrayed Beane: somewhat random in its outcome.

In other words, maybe he views giving up a lot to contend for the playoffs as more appropriate than giving up a lot to contend within the playoffs. 

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #696 on: July 31, 2017, 04:28:17 pm »
I think there's a widely held belief that a GM of a club (with the Astros record) needs to construct a club for the playoffs.   I wonder if Luhnow buys that goal, at least enough to give up top guys. Maybe he views the playoffs as the press portrayed Beane: somewhat random in its outcome.

In other words, maybe he views giving up a lot to contend for the playoffs as more appropriate than giving up a lot to contend within the playoffs.

He had said for a month or more his deadline strategy was aimed at the playoffs.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #697 on: July 31, 2017, 04:34:35 pm »
He had said for a month or more his deadline strategy was aimed at the playoffs.
Fair enough, I have not followed that closely. He sure didn't act like that though.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #698 on: July 31, 2017, 04:44:30 pm »
Luhnow will look like a genius when the Astros win the WS this year.  That's all.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #699 on: July 31, 2017, 04:51:50 pm »
I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #700 on: July 31, 2017, 04:52:37 pm »
Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #701 on: July 31, 2017, 04:54:51 pm »
Fair enough, I have not followed that closely. He sure didn't act like that though.

How the hell do you know what he tried to do?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #702 on: July 31, 2017, 04:56:58 pm »
Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #703 on: July 31, 2017, 04:57:53 pm »
I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

If Luhnow is worried about too many guys to put on the 40-man he can always make deals in the off-season.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #704 on: July 31, 2017, 04:59:37 pm »
Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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Luhnow saw what we all saw.  When his team is healthy they are nearly unstoppable.  He has to expect all his injured players will be healthy for the post-season.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #705 on: July 31, 2017, 05:00:45 pm »
This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #706 on: July 31, 2017, 05:03:26 pm »
Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?

My worry is that putting together a team to win a 162-game season is very different from putting together a team to win a 7-game playoff series. The Astros had a rare opportunity to remake their team in July with an eye toward the latter, without having to worry much about the former for the rest of 2017 (thanks to the gigantic division lead). I wish they had been able to take advantage of that advantage.

But, there's a reason I'm not the guy in charge. I'll trust in Luhnow, in part because I don't have much other choice. And hopefully the Astros will win it all and we won't remember any of this. Today, however, it's frustrating not to see the team improve itself for this year.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #707 on: July 31, 2017, 05:03:56 pm »
This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.

Bingo.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #708 on: July 31, 2017, 05:06:21 pm »
How the hell do you know what he tried to do?
The results speak for themselves. At any rate, not sure why my statement is viewed as criticism. I have faith in him and don't have a beef with today's results; it seems pretty obvious though that he wasn't hell bent on adding pieces for the playoffs.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #709 on: July 31, 2017, 05:08:11 pm »
Britton was the only piece I cared about and he didn't get traded.  I'd rather not make a move than make a bad move.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #710 on: July 31, 2017, 05:09:56 pm »
My worry is that putting together a team to win a 162-game season is very different from putting together a team to win a 7-game playoff series. The Astros had a rare opportunity to remake their team in July with an eye toward the latter, without having to worry much about the former for the rest of 2017 (thanks to the gigantic division lead). I wish they had been able to take advantage of that advantage.

But, there's a reason I'm not the guy in charge. I'll trust in Luhnow, in part because I don't have much other choice. And hopefully the Astros will win it all and we won't remember any of this. Today, however, it's frustrating not to see the team improve itself for this year.

Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #711 on: July 31, 2017, 05:13:49 pm »
Julia with some Luhnow quotes:  "I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed in not getting some of the moves done that we were working on...I do believe this team has what it takes to win in the postseason with the players we have...doesn't mean we didn't try hard to improve those chances even just a little bit"

And he obviously expects Fisher to spend the rest of his career in the major leagues.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #712 on: July 31, 2017, 05:14:43 pm »
The results speak for themselves. At any rate, not sure why my statement is viewed as criticism. I have faith in him and don't have a beef with today's results; it seems pretty obvious though that he wasn't hell bent on adding pieces for the playoffs.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #713 on: July 31, 2017, 05:20:42 pm »
What would you have done?
Actually, I'm rarely a believer in trading the future for marginal upgrades, so I have no beef with what was done or wasn't done. So, I guess I would have stood pretty much pat, like Luhnow did.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #714 on: July 31, 2017, 05:23:01 pm »
Actually, I'm rarely a believer in trading the future for marginal upgrades, so I have no beef with what was done or wasn't done. So, I guess I would have stood pretty much pat, like Luhnow did.

I do not think he stood pat. He tried to make multiple deals, but the teams could not agree on players. That is not standing pat.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #715 on: July 31, 2017, 05:23:28 pm »
Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.
I wanted Gray as well. Especially given what the Yankees gave up for him. I would have gladly given up that package, think that was a missed opportunity.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #716 on: July 31, 2017, 05:24:38 pm »
I wanted Gray as well. Especially given what the Yankees gave up for him. I would have gladly given up that package, think that was a missed opportunity.

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Again, how do you know what Oakland asked Luhnow for?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #717 on: July 31, 2017, 05:28:42 pm »
Again, how do you know what Oakland asked Luhnow for?
I don't. But, I know the Astros have a comparable package and if that package doesn't include Tucker, martes, or whitely then I feel a deal should have been made. Maybe they refused to deal without one of those or Fisher. I don't think the Yankee players are as good as any of those 4 though.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #718 on: July 31, 2017, 05:30:28 pm »
I don't. But, I know the Astros have a comparable package and if that package doesn't include Tucker, martes, or whitely then I feel a deal should have been made. Maybe they refused to deal without one of those or Fisher. I don't think the Yankee players are as good as any of those 4 though.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #719 on: July 31, 2017, 05:37:36 pm »
You cannot say a deal "should have been made" without knowing the negotiations. This is Internet bs, not TZ.
Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #720 on: July 31, 2017, 05:39:32 pm »
If Luhnow is worried about too many guys to put on the 40-man he can always make deals in the off-season.

I would think the off-season is a better dealing environment.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #721 on: July 31, 2017, 05:40:34 pm »
I'm sort of expecting Luhnow to spend at least a half-inning with Todd and Geoff tonight.

or Julia in the pre-game show. Better tune-in at 6.30.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #722 on: July 31, 2017, 05:42:22 pm »
But, this is a results based business.

Why, then, are you not waiting on the results?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #723 on: July 31, 2017, 05:44:54 pm »


This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.



They needed a left handed reliever and he got a decent one.  That's improvement.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #724 on: July 31, 2017, 05:45:31 pm »
They needed a left handed reliever and he got a decent one.  That's improvement.

One that may be able to get out right handed batters too.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #725 on: July 31, 2017, 05:47:09 pm »
Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #726 on: July 31, 2017, 05:47:30 pm »
This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.

You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #727 on: July 31, 2017, 05:49:29 pm »
What result interests you? Winning the trading deadline? If so, that's pathetic. I want to win the WS. That's the result I want.
I would love to be wrong, but I don't think this pitching staff will win a world series.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #728 on: July 31, 2017, 05:51:08 pm »
I would love to be wrong, but I don't think this pitching staff will win a world series.

It must suck to feel like you've already lost before the game is even over.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #729 on: July 31, 2017, 05:54:38 pm »
It must suck to feel like you've already lost before the game is even over.
Can and will are two different things. There are 6 or 8 teams that CAN win the world series. I would have liked to increase the chances by adding solid pitching to a good but not great pitching staff.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #730 on: July 31, 2017, 05:55:12 pm »
Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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Personally, as an intradivision rival I would have made the Astros pay more for Gray than the Yankees if the deal from the Yankees was good enough for me.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #731 on: July 31, 2017, 05:59:40 pm »
I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #732 on: July 31, 2017, 05:59:50 pm »
For those that believe the Astros could have easily topped the Yankees offer, rival evaluators have described Beane has "fixated" on Mateo.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #733 on: July 31, 2017, 06:02:19 pm »
For those that believe the Astros could have easily topped the Yankees offer, rival evaluators have described Beane has "fixated" on Mateo.


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Ok, if true, then fair enough.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #734 on: July 31, 2017, 06:04:10 pm »
In the middle of an interview with Beltran about whether the team needed to add more, Gregerson yelled "WE HAVE A 16 GAME LEAD!!!" and suddenly I like him a little more.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #735 on: July 31, 2017, 06:06:54 pm »
I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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Well, they did add pitching.

I think most everyone would have liked to see the team do more. But the point is, we have no idea what was tried and what was offered. To judge the FO negatively based on what didn't occur is unfair and a bit of an overreaction.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #736 on: July 31, 2017, 06:44:40 pm »
What does the potential free-agent pitching market look like this winter?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #737 on: July 31, 2017, 06:49:19 pm »
I will miss the Jap slap....
Playoffs...Did you say playoffs !

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #738 on: July 31, 2017, 07:21:56 pm »
I may be wrong, and will take my Pope beatdown if so, but it seems like these teams ask Lunhow for the enitre top 10 of our farm system in trades, and then take far less from the other teams when he says no. Don't know if it's the art of negotiation or we think our prospects are better than other teams think they are, but it seems that teams shoot for the moon with Lunhow and then turn around and give up their players for far less.

That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #739 on: July 31, 2017, 07:27:33 pm »
Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.

"Remake" was perhaps a poor choice of words. By it, I meant tweak a team from a great offense with some currently shaky pitching into a great offense with -- as we both hoped -- a dual-ace starting rotation (adding another top starter to go alongside Keuchel) and perhaps an even better bullpen. I had my hopes up, and they were not fulfilled, so I am disappointed. That doesn't mean Luhnow failed, or sucks, or anything -- just means one guy on the Internet (me) is in a grumpy mood this afternoon/evening.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #740 on: July 31, 2017, 07:29:04 pm »
That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.

I will not be surprised to see Paulino traded this winter. I don't think this front office takes kindly to PED issues.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #741 on: July 31, 2017, 07:30:27 pm »
... unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway.
This is so true. Hopefully they will return healthy.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #742 on: July 31, 2017, 08:24:15 pm »
I will miss the Jap slap....

Go fuck yourself.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #743 on: July 31, 2017, 08:47:46 pm »
Fuck no, it is not on Luhnow. If you believe the reports, he traded for Britton. The Baltimore GM agreed, and Angelos vetoed the trade. What should Luhnow have done? fucking internet experts.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 09:24:13 pm by JimR »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #744 on: July 31, 2017, 08:50:48 pm »
I will miss the Jap slap....

It's time for you to go away. For good.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #745 on: July 31, 2017, 08:51:54 pm »
You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
I am 61 and I thought I was a horses ass like my wife says, but you have me beat !

That's right I said it ..........you got a problem with that...... JIMBO!

Fuck off. Do I have a problem with you? Nope, you have been here about two weeks and are a fucking idiot. You contribute nothing.

So, go fuck yourself.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #746 on: July 31, 2017, 11:25:56 pm »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #747 on: July 31, 2017, 11:41:31 pm »
I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #748 on: July 31, 2017, 11:46:29 pm »
I will miss the Jap slap....

Fuck off, and go away.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #749 on: July 31, 2017, 11:52:58 pm »
My thoughts, for whatever they're worth:
- other teams improved themselves more than Houston did.
- other teams (especially in the AL) NEEDED to do more than Houston did
- none of us know how close Houston was to getting a guy like Briton (close, if you believe certain reports)
- it's unfair to say Luhnow did "nothing"
- the huge lead is not an issue to tout, iMO, beyond the fact that it gets you to October; the goal is still to win in the playoffs
- nothing about that means that the Astros cannot still win in the playoffs
- if either DK or LMJ are not healthy come October it may not matter anyway

There's too much extreme "hot take" crap out there, IMO. The season didn't end today and nothing is guaranteed because the team is pacing toward 100 wins.

So with all of that said... Let's go win the whole fucking thing.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #750 on: August 01, 2017, 12:09:23 am »
So luckily I had a very long drive to do today that I put off until right after the trade deadline. Initially, I thought it'd be a great time to make the drive seem short by listening to the trade analaysis on all the crazy deals JL pulled off. It didn't work out that way.

However, I'm glad I planned it that way as I likely would have posted something "emotional"... which I think is understandable. Most everyone here would agree this is a special season, it's hard not to get emotionable about it. So instead I put on some great music, thought about it some, then didn't, then thought about it some more. At first it was the Aoki trade that was really bugging me, I really liked what he brought to the team, but there's this one JL quote that kept coming back to me throughout the drive, "trust the math".

Then it was coming to terms with the fact Liriano is the only incoming help this pitching staff has. Again though... "trust the math". Ok...

Another issue I kept running through my thick 'noggin was my initial reaction to some of the prospects it seemingly took to get players I thought would be useful on the Astros. Surely we could have offered better... right? The more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to the same conclusion. Luhnow is doing exactly what he did to get this team to where it is now. Trusting the math.

JL has had a big part in creating a team that is unarguably very good this year and will be very good for at least a couple more years. He's done it in large part by sticking to this philosophy. He sees something in Fisher that made him comfortable trading Aoki. As fun as he was to watch I'll trust the math here.

JL obviously went waaay beyond Liriano's stats against lefties as a starter. He likely has data freely available that we could only dream of. Like how Liriano's two best pitches play against the 6-7-8 hitters in a lineup the first time through. He sees something here. I'll trust the math.

As far as deals that got done or didn't... It seems that he had at least one deal in place that got nixed by an imbecile who is running his team straight in to the shitter. Not his fault. But the other deals...? Luhnow either didn't trust the math or they simply weren't on the table. The two best starting pitchers available were from within the division. The price may have been higher for the Astros.

We now have to rely on getting people healthy. Also,  who knows what might pop up on the waiver wire?

For me, I'm gunna "trust the math" this season. It's gotten us this far and it's gotten us a damn good team.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #751 on: August 01, 2017, 04:24:44 am »
So luckily I had a very long drive to do today that I put off until right after the trade deadline. Initially, I thought it'd be a great time to make the drive seem short by listening to the trade analaysis on all the crazy deals JL pulled off. It didn't work out that way.

However, I'm glad I planned it that way as I likely would have posted something "emotional"... which I think is understandable. Most everyone here would agree this is a special season, it's hard not to get emotionable about it. So instead I put on some great music, thought about it some, then didn't, then thought about it some more. At first it was the Aoki trade that was really bugging me, I really liked what he brought to the team, but there's this one JL quote that kept coming back to me throughout the drive, "trust the math".

Then it was coming to terms with the fact Liriano is the only incoming help this pitching staff has. Again though... "trust the math". Ok...

Another issue I kept running through my thick 'noggin was my initial reaction to some of the prospects it seemingly took to get players I thought would be useful on the Astros. Surely we could have offered better... right? The more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to the same conclusion. Luhnow is doing exactly what he did to get this team to where it is now. Trusting the math.

JL has had a big part in creating a team that is unarguably very good this year and will be very good for at least a couple more years. He's done it in large part by sticking to this philosophy. He sees something in Fisher that made him comfortable trading Aoki. As fun as he was to watch I'll trust the math here.

JL obviously went waaay beyond Liriano's stats against lefties as a starter. He likely has data freely available that we could only dream of. Like how Liriano's two best pitches play against the 6-7-8 hitters in a lineup the first time through. He sees something here. I'll trust the math.

As far as deals that got done or didn't... It seems that he had at least one deal in place that got nixed by an imbecile who is running his team straight in to the shitter. Not his fault. But the other deals...? Luhnow either didn't trust the math or they simply weren't on the table. The two best starting pitchers available were from within the division. The price may have been higher for the Astros.

We now have to rely on getting people healthy. Also,  who knows what might pop up on the waiver wire?

For me, I'm gunna "trust the math" this season. It's gotten us this far and it's gotten us a damn good team.


Its difficult to understand the machinations of the trade market when we know so little of the negotiations and games which the general managers play.  We only hear the public pronouncements so really know next to nothing about why decisions are truly made.  Luhnow has built this team from nothing, so why second guess him?  It would have been nice to have an additional reliever, but my personal guess is when one has a deep system, the price goes up proportionally. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 04:27:35 am by Fynn »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #752 on: August 01, 2017, 04:48:48 am »

Its difficult to understand the machinations of the trade market when we know so little of the negotiations and games which the general managers play.  We only hear the public pronouncements so really know next to nothing about why decisions are truly made.  Luhnow has built this team from nothing, so why second guess him?  It would have been nice to have an additional reliever, but my personal guess is when one has a deep system, the price goes up proportionally.

Exactly.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #753 on: August 01, 2017, 05:00:39 am »
The chicken little fans should be forgiven a little considering that the Astros had one of the worst four year stretches in MLB history. Those more knowledgeable fan bases have experienced World Series titles. We can't say that as Astros fans. With greatness seemingly there for the taking, it is understandable why people are lamenting today's trade deadline results. This is especially the case given that Luhnow, himself, has signaled the importance of adding pitching.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #754 on: August 01, 2017, 06:20:23 am »
The chicken little fans should be forgiven a little considering that the Astros had one of the worst four year stretches in MLB history. Those more knowledgeable fan bases have experienced World Series titles. We can't say that as Astros fans. With greatness seemingly there for the taking, it is understandable why people are lamenting today's trade deadline results. This is especially the case given that Luhnow, himself, has signaled the importance of adding pitching.

Do you really think he did not try?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #755 on: August 01, 2017, 08:32:19 am »
If you believe the reports, he traded for Britton. The Baltimore GM agreed, and Angelos vetoed the trade.

Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #756 on: August 01, 2017, 08:41:13 am »
Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.

Crane said during the broadcast last night that they had a "done deal", but the other owner vetoed it. He seemed pretty pissed about it. Not too hard to infer that it was Angelos, who has a history of such meddling.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #757 on: August 01, 2017, 08:42:18 am »
Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.

It is being inferred based on separate comments from Luhnow, Crane and other media.  Basically, Luhnow said we had deals "90%" done that he thought would get done.  Crane said that he's never blocked a deal from his front office (without really being prompted).  Add to that Rosenthal's tweet that about Angelos wanting more.

Putting it all together sounds like the Baltimore and Houston front office had a deal in place but it wasn't good enough for Angelos.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #758 on: August 01, 2017, 08:49:43 am »
I have an Astros fan neighbor/friend who works for ESPN. She said flat out yesterday Angelos vetoed the Britton trade the two GMs made. She said a pitcher was going back.

ETA: I also would like to know what happened to a possible deal for Hand at the last minute.

Nate, please refresh my memory on waiver trade mechanics.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #759 on: August 01, 2017, 08:59:44 am »
Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:
Quote
At 7 p.m., Wade’s phone rings as he’s about to head home. It’s the general manager of another team inquiring for the first time about Bourn.
 
Astros: Wade – Our briefcases are packed up now, all we have to do is just say novenas for the rest of the night hoping Michael doesn’t get hurt. And I’m just about 10 paces from the elevator to push the button to go down to the parking garage. I said, “Out of respect, I don’t want to waste your time. I think we’re pretty far down the road on something.” And the response is, “Even if I’m willing to give you better players?” And I said, “Just take me at my word. We’ve known each other for a long time, stay out of it.”
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #760 on: August 01, 2017, 09:14:05 am »
Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

Great article

ETA: my ESPN friend says she thinks Martes was in the Britton deal. She also heard another trade was cancelled for medical reasons.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 09:29:15 am by JimR »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #761 on: August 01, 2017, 09:36:05 am »
Great article

ETA: my ESPN friend says she thinks Martes was in the Britton deal. She also heard another trade was cancelled for medical reasons.

Angelos is out of his mind.  Britton will be a free agent before Baltimore reaches the post season.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #762 on: August 01, 2017, 09:39:08 am »
You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
I am 61 and I thought I was a horses ass like my wife says, but you have me beat !

That's right I said it ..........you got a problem with that...... JIMBO!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #763 on: August 01, 2017, 09:39:49 am »
I will miss the Jap slap....

U FOO!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #764 on: August 01, 2017, 09:46:18 am »
Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

That last minute phone call is why a lot of GM's don't pull the trigger early.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #765 on: August 01, 2017, 09:59:11 am »
https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/892364799815942145

Some good perspective on how big deals don't always matter and how nothing is written in advance.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #767 on: August 01, 2017, 10:45:21 am »
...!
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #768 on: August 01, 2017, 10:50:31 am »
I have an Astros fan neighbor/friend who works for ESPN. She said flat out yesterday Angelos vetoed the Britton trade the two GMs made. She said a pitcher was going back.

ETA: I also would like to know what happened to a possible deal for Hand at the last minute.

Nate, please refresh my memory on waiver trade mechanics.

Not Nate, but...after August 1st, players can be placed on revocable waivers. If they are claimed, the waiving team can 1) pull him back, 2) work out a trade, or 3) let him go to the team that claimed him. If the player is not claimed, he can be traded just like any other time of the year.  So there's a couple of ways to get a trade done from here on out.

A couple of points:

Almost all players are put on this waivers at some point during this period.

A player can only be pulled back once. So if he's claimed and pulled back, then placed on the waivers again, he cannot be pulled back the second time.

Players obtained after August 31st are not eligible for the postseason. Except for the exceptions to that rule. Which are a mess.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #769 on: August 01, 2017, 10:58:23 am »
Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

If I remember correctly, the Giants supposedly offered Brandon Belt and Zach Wheeler at the last minute (according to the talking heads here in the Bay Area).
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #770 on: August 01, 2017, 11:07:46 am »
Not Nate, but...after August 1st, players can be placed on revocable waivers. If they are claimed, the waiving team can 1) pull him back, 2) work out a trade, or 3) let him go to the team that claimed him. If the player is not claimed, he can be traded just like any other time of the year.  So there's a couple of ways to get a trade done from here on out.

A couple of points:

Almost all players are put on this waivers at some point during this period.

A player can only be pulled back once. So if he's claimed and pulled back, then placed on the waivers again, he cannot be pulled back the second time.

Players obtained after August 31st are not eligible for the postseason. Except for the exceptions to that rule. Which are a mess.

Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #771 on: August 01, 2017, 11:10:45 am »
Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?

Priority by same league, then by record.  (losers first)

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #772 on: August 01, 2017, 11:11:35 am »
Priority by same league, then by record.  (losers first)

Thanks
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #773 on: August 01, 2017, 11:31:52 am »
Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?
Lowest league position gets the claim I believe

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #774 on: August 01, 2017, 11:37:24 am »
Seems like a process more likely to help a team patch a hole to make the playoffs, pretty unlikely to find championship winning talent.  You hope to catch a good month of a Chris Carter or Carlos Gomez type.  Verlander being the exception, due to his contract.  If the front office has doubts about LMJ's health, that might be their best band-aid.  If they wanted him, it helps that the big money AL teams acquired pitching before the deadline.

This article offers Padres starter Jhoulys Chacin as the prototype waiver player - 10-7, 4.22 ERA.  It also reviews the waiver process, most of which is covered here already I think.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #775 on: August 01, 2017, 12:23:37 pm »
Seems like a process more likely to help a team patch a hole to make the playoffs, pretty unlikely to find championship winning talent.  You hope to catch a good month of a Chris Carter or Carlos Gomez type.  Verlander being the exception, due to his contract.  If the front office has doubts about LMJ's health, that might be their best band-aid.  If they wanted him, it helps that the big money AL teams acquired pitching before the deadline.

This article offers Padres starter Jhoulys Chacin as the prototype waiver player - 10-7, 4.22 ERA.  It also reviews the waiver process, most of which is covered here already I think.

It can also be used to revive a trade not consummated before the deadline, but it is much more difficult because rivals can block it.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #776 on: August 01, 2017, 12:38:37 pm »
It can also be used to revive a trade not consummated before the deadline, but it is much more difficult because rivals can block it.

Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #777 on: August 01, 2017, 12:46:32 pm »
Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

In the more collegial past, GMs have respected a trade deal made by a team above them and have not blocked the trade with a claim. I do not expect that sort of collegiality today.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #778 on: August 01, 2017, 12:56:08 pm »
whats done or not done well is done. Ladies and mostly Gents its August, l  get all  afraid of upsetting the bbg so I will just say there is a bit of a lead in the west. I for one am looking forward to the rest of the season and seeing how it plays out
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #779 on: August 01, 2017, 01:18:09 pm »
In the more collegial past, GMs have respected a trade deal made by a team above them and have not blocked the trade with a claim. I do not expect that sort of collegiality today.

That would make for a fantastic article.  Would be interesting to hear when old and new GMs think that changed and what event/season might have been the watershed.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #780 on: August 01, 2017, 01:47:53 pm »
Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

Not that it matters, but I'd actually hope the Tigers want something in return for Verlander and offer some contract relief to sweeten the pot.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #781 on: August 01, 2017, 01:49:40 pm »
Not that it matters, but I'd actually hope the Tigers want something in return for Verlander and offer some contract relief to sweeten the pot.

Probably the only realistic scenario for a waiver trade.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #782 on: August 01, 2017, 03:28:48 pm »
Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #783 on: August 01, 2017, 03:31:15 pm »
Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

Dallas needs to bite his tongue in public if he's ever going to be an effective team leader.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #784 on: August 01, 2017, 03:52:50 pm »
Boom!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #785 on: August 01, 2017, 04:11:37 pm »
This gloom and doom shit should be deleted. Buy a team and show me how it is done. You have ZERO knowledge of the negotiations. There are two full months to go.

This is Ray Kerby stuff you posted.

Here's a reminder of all the things you posted over the past few months just in this thread.  I'm just agreeing with you:

We need pitching

This team needs a pitcher. Period.

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

Robertson is RH? Need lefty more.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

That team is a lot less good today. I will be astonished if we stand pat.

Perhaps Luhnow did not want Robertson. I cannot believe he will let the deadline pass without doing something.

If Luhnow stands pat, I will be astonished and aghast.

If he stands pat, you won't love it. We won't win, and this team will resent his not doing all he can to win this year.

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.


Boom!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #786 on: August 01, 2017, 04:21:50 pm »
Here's a reminder of all the things you posted over the past few months just in this thread.  I'm just agreeing with you:

We need pitching

This team needs a pitcher. Period.

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

Robertson is RH? Need lefty more.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

That team is a lot less good today. I will be astonished if we stand pat.

Perhaps Luhnow did not want Robertson. I cannot believe he will let the deadline pass without doing something.

If Luhnow stands pat, I will be astonished and aghast.




If he stands pat, you won't love it. We won't win, and this team will resent his not doing all he can to win this year.

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

Are you paying attention? Angelos vetoed the Britton trade. Luhnow did not stand pat.

Buy a team, and show me how to do it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 04:25:19 pm by JimR »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #787 on: August 01, 2017, 04:37:33 pm »
Keuchel is just repeating what he said earlier. 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/keuchel-astros-intrigued-about-potential-trade-for-rotation-help-062915

That Keuchel article you linked to was from 2015? And he mentioned several starters he hoped they could maybe get and one was Kazmir which Luhnow got. What am I missing?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #788 on: August 01, 2017, 04:37:52 pm »
There were plenty of other capable relievers (and starters) who were traded.  Luhnow put all of his chips into one player.  So when Angelos vetoed the trade, the Astros were no longer able to make any deals of note.  That is a massive fuckup as far as I am concerned.   
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #789 on: August 01, 2017, 04:38:52 pm »
That Keuchel article you linked to was from 2015? And he mentioned several starters he hoped they could maybe get and one was Kazmir which Luhnow got. What am I missing?

Sorry.  I thought I had found his quote from earlier in this season.  He said the same thing this year as well.  I'll find it. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #790 on: August 01, 2017, 04:39:25 pm »
Breathtaking lackeyism.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #791 on: August 01, 2017, 04:45:27 pm »
There were plenty of other capable relievers (and starters) who were traded.  Luhnow put all of his chips into one player.  So when Angelos vetoed the trade, the Astros were no longer able to make any deals of note.  That is a massive fuckup as far as I am concerned.

Such bullshit. How do you know what he tried to do, what he offered, what they wanted, or what happened to the deal. You don't know shit, like the rest of us.

You are a second-guessing frontrunner. Bandwagon Todd the Bod, at least you have outgrown four team trade ideas.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #792 on: August 01, 2017, 04:50:35 pm »
Breathtaking lackeyism.

I hope you are not talking about me, chuck. I would hate to tell someone I really like to go fuck himself.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #793 on: August 01, 2017, 05:07:51 pm »
Such bullshit. How do you know what he tried to do, what he offered, what they wanted, or what happened to the deal. You don't know shit, like the rest of us.

You are a second-guessing frontrunner. Bandwagon Todd the Bod, at least you have outgrown four team trade ideas.

I love how you call me a front-runner and a bandwagoner.  Like you don't personally know that I have followed this team through thick and thin. 
Boom!

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #794 on: August 01, 2017, 05:09:53 pm »
Moving on....

Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Justin Verlander
Ervin Santana

Relievers?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #795 on: August 01, 2017, 05:10:31 pm »
Moving on....

Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Justin Verlander
Ervin Santana

Relievers?

Britton?
Hand?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #796 on: August 01, 2017, 05:10:57 pm »
I love how you call me a front-runner and a bandwagoner.  Like you don't personally know that I have followed this team through thick and thin.

Yeah, boy, your post yesterday sure showed me that.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #797 on: August 01, 2017, 05:11:42 pm »
Britton?
Hand?

I think both of them will be claimed well before the Astros have a chance.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #798 on: August 01, 2017, 05:12:10 pm »


Britton?
Hand?

No chance either gets through waivers.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #799 on: August 01, 2017, 05:12:11 pm »
Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

Shut up and pitch, Dallas. You weren't so good last time out.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #800 on: August 01, 2017, 05:17:49 pm »
Shut up and pitch, Dallas. You weren't so good last time out.
Total agreement here.  Hard to understand his sentiment when he's on a team as talented as this.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #801 on: August 01, 2017, 05:33:19 pm »
If the players are disappointed with the "we tried really hard" rhetoric from management, maybe we shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Either Crane and Luhnow did not take the time to communicate with their players about what happened, they did not communicate effectively, or they don't have credibility with some in the clubhouse.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #802 on: August 01, 2017, 05:39:46 pm »
If the players are disappointed with the "we tried really hard" rhetoric from management, maybe we shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Either Crane and Luhnow did not take the time to communicate with their players about what happened, they did not communicate effectively, or they don't have credibility with some in the clubhouse.

Or Dallas Keuchel is a petulant child who believes what he wants to believe.  That is also an option.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #803 on: August 01, 2017, 05:56:04 pm »
Or Dallas Keuchel is a petulant child who believes what he wants to believe.  That is also an option.

Or Dallas was, like all of us, hoping to add another impact player and is disappointed that, for whatever reason, it didn't work out.  Seems reasonable enough to me. 

I don't think his comments are the equivalent of the LUHNOW IS A LOSER THE ASTROS ARE THE TRADE DEADLINE LOSERS posts that we've seen around.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #804 on: August 01, 2017, 06:07:51 pm »
Or Dallas was, like all of us, hoping to add another impact player and is disappointed that, for whatever reason, it didn't work out.  Seems reasonable enough to me. 

I don't think his comments are the equivalent of the LUHNOW IS A LOSER THE ASTROS ARE THE TRADE DEADLINE LOSERS posts that we've seen around.

The problem is as the second longest tenured Astro and supposed team leader, making those comments is completely inappropriate.  He made it clear that he thinks his teammates need an upgrade.  Even if that’s true, why throw your team under the bus.

Further, instead of displaying any understanding of the intricacies of a baseball trade (and it was explained to the team) Keuchel has decided to make it an issue with the front office, saying “we’ll just play for the guys in this clubhouse.  That’s it.”

This isn’t just a fan being disappointed in the heat of the moment.  It’s your best pitcher saying things he doesn’t need to say 24 hours after the fact, and making it seem like there’s a rift between the players and the front office.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #805 on: August 01, 2017, 06:22:03 pm »
The problem is as the second longest tenured Astro and supposed team leader, making those comments is completely inappropriate.  He made it clear that he thinks his teammates need an upgrade.  Even if that’s true, why throw your team under the bus.

Further, instead of displaying any understanding of the intricacies of a baseball trade (and it was explained to the team) Keuchel has decided to make it an issue with the front office, saying “we’ll just play for the guys in this clubhouse.  That’s it.”

This isn’t just a fan being disappointed in the heat of the moment.  It’s your best pitcher saying things he doesn’t need to say 24 hours after the fact, and making it seem like there’s a rift between the players and the front office.

This plus a million, and Kuechel is not "the team."
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #806 on: August 01, 2017, 07:34:31 pm »
Keuchel "threw his teammates under the bus" is the narrative now? Horseshit. The GM identified upgrading the pitching as a priority going into the deadline- was he throwing his players under the bus? You want Keuchel to show more maturity and keep it in house, fine. I can't dismiss his frustration, or be too critical of his professionalism.  Keuchel struggled through injury last year and nothing was made public and he went about his business. I respect him and I bet his teammates do, as well.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #807 on: August 01, 2017, 07:40:02 pm »
I heard Keuchel's entire comment in context on the radio this afternoon and it wasn't that bad.  In fact, it echoed much of the rational sentiment here.  I'll try to find it.

ETA - entire comments here.  He said more than I heard on the radio.  I can understand the gripe with some of the comments.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 07:42:48 pm by Waldo »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #808 on: August 01, 2017, 10:30:38 pm »
Keuchel "threw his teammates under the bus" is the narrative now? Horseshit. The GM identified upgrading the pitching as a priority going into the deadline- was he throwing his players under the bus? You want Keuchel to show more maturity and keep it in house, fine. I can't dismiss his frustration, or be too critical of his professionalism.  Keuchel struggled through injury last year and nothing was made public and he went about his business. I respect him and I bet his teammates do, as well.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #809 on: August 02, 2017, 04:01:06 am »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #810 on: August 02, 2017, 07:42:25 am »
The 'Stros must have really blown it.   Bohls said so in his column this morning.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #811 on: August 02, 2017, 10:50:58 am »
The 'Stros must have really blown it.   Bohls said so in his column this morning.

What are the odds that Bohls will revisit this and issue a mea culpa if Tucker and  Fisher are tearing up the league in two years?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #812 on: August 02, 2017, 11:50:02 am »
Nonexistent.  I can't believe he's worked at the Statesman as long as he has.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #813 on: August 02, 2017, 12:30:27 pm »
To quote the movie "Major League"...."Who gives a shit, it's gone!"

The deadline has passed.  What's done is done.  I've moved on and still feel more excited about this team than any other I've watched in my brief 25-30 years of watching the club on a regular basis. 

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #814 on: August 02, 2017, 12:33:41 pm »
That's where I'm at as well. I still see people on Twitter that won't let it go... both the "Houston blew it" crowd and the "people that wanted Gray are stupid" crowd.

More important things, IMO, like DK getting his shit together tonight. I'd hate for him to be disappointed again.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #815 on: August 02, 2017, 01:19:36 pm »
I may be wrong, and will take my Pope beatdown if so, but it seems like these teams ask Lunhow for the enitre top 10 of our farm system in trades, and then take far less from the other teams when he says no. Don't know if it's the art of negotiation or we think our prospects are better than other teams think they are, but it seems that teams shoot for the moon with Lunhow and then turn around and give up their players for far less.

That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.

This is what I was getting at with my post earlier wondering how much, if any, Luhnow's seeming willingness to overpay in prospects (in the past) colored other teams' dealings with him now. If you think you might be in line for a Giles or Gomez/Fiers haul, you may press the point with him while negotiating less rose-colored deals on parallel tracks with other teams.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #816 on: August 02, 2017, 01:31:18 pm »
This is what I was getting at with my post earlier wondering how much, if any, Luhnow's seeming willingness to overpay in prospects (in the past) colored other teams' dealings with him now. If you think you might be in line for a Giles or Gomez/Fiers haul, you may press the point with him while negotiating less rose-colored deals on parallel tracks with other teams.

He may have been over paying, we don't know because Angelos vetoed the deal.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #817 on: August 02, 2017, 02:16:56 pm »
Nonexistent.  I can't believe he's worked at the Statesman as long as he has.

I can't believe the Statesman still publishes.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #818 on: August 02, 2017, 02:20:43 pm »
I can't believe that newspapers still exist.

FIFY

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #819 on: August 02, 2017, 02:43:04 pm »
Average fan is also not aware that the A's asking price for Grey from the Astros was likely much higher than the Yankees because they would have to face Grey more in the division if he were an Astro.  Basically the price for Grey and Darvish was higher because of being in the same division. That limits the pool for starting pitching.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #820 on: August 02, 2017, 02:45:03 pm »
Average fan is also not aware that the A's asking price for Grey from the Astros was likely much higher than the Yankees because they would have to face Grey more in the division if he were an Astro.  Basically the price for Grey and Darvish was higher because of being in the same division. That limits the pool for starting pitching.

Judging by what's been written here by many TZ denizens, we've got lots of below average fans in our numbers.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #821 on: August 02, 2017, 03:23:54 pm »
I would have to believe that every regular poster here understands that the price the A's or the Rangers would ask from the Astros will be higher than what they would ask of a team outside the division.

To me, the Astros were (are) an impact starter and two impact, closer-type relievers away from being able to think seriously that they are a championship sort of team. Sure, they may win this year with what they have, but I just don't see it. I don't think they have anywhere near the pitching, even if everyone suddenly gets healthy and reclaims whatever heights they'd ascended earlier in the year.

It is absolutely insane to fixate on Angelos' queering the deal that Luhnow ostensibly had with Baltimore. I mean, I'm some dumbass in a hammock somewhere and I am well aware that Angelos is a meddling old crank. Luhnow surely is far more acutely aware of this than any of us is. So to isolate your focus on Britton with no apparent Plan B seems like a tremendous mistake, never mind not landing any other impact pitcher.

None of us has any idea how Crane is going to manage the team going forward. Does anyone truly think that Springer and Keuchel will sign their next contracts with the Astros? I don't. This is a win-now year if ever there was one, far more so than last year, far more so than the year before. The Astros have an offense the likes of which we may never see again. Sure, the prospects that the team didn't trade may blossom and the team could go on a Braves in the 90's sort of run of dominance. But in addition to the prospects fulfilling their promise that would probably take retaining the top level guys they may lose over the next several seasons, and we don't know whether that will happen.

So I don't see how any rational observer could view the team's failure to add an impact pitcher (or three) as anything other than a colossal cockup.

Another thing, there is most certainly a rift between the players and the front office. The general manager has done some unbelievably shitty things to some high profile players. It is certainly possible that this sort of rift is not uncommon around the league, and it is possible that it is not particularly relevant at the end of the day. With the exception of Hamels the team doesn't seem to have any problem attracting the players it wants. But the Astros players were generally frustrated last year when no deadline moves were made, and since this year's team is significantly better than last year's, it shouldn't be surprising that there is palpable frustration this year, too. As for players being quiet about it, it's forever puzzling to me why so many of you are always so quick to side with management over players in professional sports.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #822 on: August 02, 2017, 03:38:25 pm »
I keep reading and hearing "Why didn't Luhnow have a backup plan?"

I follow this stuff pretty closely, and had never ONCE heard a rumor connecting the Astros and Liriano.

So my question is: What makes y'all think that *wasn't* the backup plan? If you know that the Britton deal is going down to the wire, and you know Angelos often scuttles deals, don't you go ahead and execute your backup plan just in case?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #823 on: August 02, 2017, 04:04:11 pm »
I would have to believe that every regular poster here understands that the price the A's or the Rangers would ask from the Astros will be higher than what they would ask of a team outside the division.

Nah, from what I'd surmise the A's were unwilling to include Jed Lowrie in the deal, so Luhnow told them to pound sand...
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #824 on: August 02, 2017, 04:05:25 pm »
I would just like to focus on winning, and I really don't care who is on the team.  If we get to October and have won the division with the best record, we get to play in a division series.  Who will that be the opponent?  No way of knowing today.  So no judgments from me about the management, unless we fail to win.  If we go 31-25 starting today until the end, we win 100 games.  Seattle would have to go 47-7 to beat the Astros to finish.  Complain in October if we don't win.  Today's game is the only one that counts today.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #825 on: August 02, 2017, 04:07:14 pm »
Another thing, there is most certainly a rift between the players and the front office. The general manager has done some unbelievably shitty things to some high profile players. It is certainly possible that this sort of rift is not uncommon around the league, and it is possible that it is not particularly relevant at the end of the day. With the exception of Hamels the team doesn't seem to have any problem attracting the players it wants. But the Astros players were generally frustrated last year when no deadline moves were made, and since this year's team is significantly better than last year's, it shouldn't be surprising that there is palpable frustration this year, too. As for players being quiet about it, it's forever puzzling to me why so many of you are always so quick to side with management over players in professional sports.

I really haven't heard that there's any particular rift between management and the players. Could be, I just haven't heard it. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #826 on: August 02, 2017, 04:07:29 pm »
I also think we were involved with Hand, but unlike Duquette having to deal with Angelos, that guy is just a moron.  The idea that he's ever gonna get more value out of Hand than what he probably could have had on Monday is extremely extremely small.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #827 on: August 02, 2017, 04:13:04 pm »
Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #828 on: August 02, 2017, 04:22:18 pm »
Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?

Three business days.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #829 on: August 02, 2017, 04:47:56 pm »
You make me tired, chuck. You have been on the negative bullshit rant since Crane acquired the team. I do not know why you bother to watch the games, if you do, or why you post hear unless it is to gloat over anything you perceive to be failure.

Bullshit on a rift. Keep on throwing hand grenades. I am going to stop reading your posts.

ETA: if you were calling me a lackey yesterday, go fuck yourself.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 04:53:55 pm by JimR »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #830 on: August 02, 2017, 04:52:25 pm »
Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?

I read somewhere today if no one claims him, Detroit can negotiate a trade with all 29 teams. Is that correct?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #831 on: August 02, 2017, 05:05:25 pm »
I read somewhere today if no one claims him, Detroit can negotiate a trade with all 29 teams. Is that correct?

Yes.  If no team claims the player after three business days, he can be traded normally, optioned to the minors, or released.  If he does get claimed the teams have two business days to work out a trade.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 05:06:58 pm by Bench »
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #832 on: August 02, 2017, 05:33:19 pm »
Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Ervin Santana

He'll get cock-blocked before he ever reaches the Astros, but FWIW Santana threw a complete game today allowing just 2 runs on 4 hits with 9 whiffs and just 1 walk. That's his 2nd CG in his last 5 outings.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #833 on: August 02, 2017, 06:06:34 pm »
He'll get cock-blocked before he ever reaches the Astros, but FWIW Santana threw a complete game today allowing just 2 runs on 4 hits with 9 whiffs and just 1 walk. That's his 2nd CG in his last 5 outings.

Crap. I thought his contract might be just big enough.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #834 on: August 02, 2017, 06:10:20 pm »
Crap. I thought his contract might be just big enough.

You may be right or at least Ken Rosenthal seems to agree with you. Since I posted that, I heard him say on MLB Network he thought Santana would make it thru waivers (though he didn't seem entirely sure of himself when he said it).

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #835 on: August 02, 2017, 06:17:12 pm »
You may be right or at least Ken Rosenthal seems to agree with you. Since I posted that, I heard him say on MLB Network he thought Santana would make it thru waivers (though he didn't seem entirely sure of himself when he said it).

The silver lining on all these contending teams loading up on pitching is im not sure who else is really going to be "in" on Verlander etc.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #836 on: August 02, 2017, 07:14:08 pm »
Of course they put Verlander on waivers. Half the league gets put on waivers. I would guess he clears because who is going to take the chance on claiming him? All the Tigers have to do is say "he's yours" and you're the proud owner of that albatross of a contract, albeit without giving up so much as a bag of balls. If he does clear then maybe you can still work on a deal.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #837 on: August 02, 2017, 07:15:08 pm »
Yes.  If no team claims the player after three business days, he can be traded normally, optioned to the minors, or released.  If he does get claimed the teams have two business days to work out a trade.

If a player gets claimed the team that put him on waivers can also immediately pull him back.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #838 on: August 02, 2017, 07:25:54 pm »
If a player gets claimed the team that put him on waivers can also immediately pull him back.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #839 on: August 02, 2017, 08:02:52 pm »
I'm an all-inclusive fan. I favor diversity of opinion in a group like this. I don't care if you are hyper-critical or guzzling kool-aid. I even like the petty bickering among the crowd. I also think it's kind of fun to occasionally tell someone to go fuck yourself. 'm easily amused. If you don't like you can go fuck yourself.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #840 on: August 02, 2017, 10:22:57 pm »
I keep reading and hearing "Why didn't Luhnow have a backup plan?"

I follow this stuff pretty closely, and had never ONCE heard a rumor connecting the Astros and Liriano.

So my question is: What makes y'all think that *wasn't* the backup plan? If you know that the Britton deal is going down to the wire, and you know Angelos often scuttles deals, don't you go ahead and execute your backup plan just in case?


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The 5.88 Liriano and nothing else is not a great back up plan.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #841 on: August 02, 2017, 10:57:11 pm »
The 5.88 Liriano and nothing else is not a great back up plan.

I'm going to wait to see what he does in his actual role with the Astros. You might be right but until he performs nobody knows.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #842 on: August 03, 2017, 06:53:40 am »
The 5.88 Liriano and nothing else is not a great back up plan.

His ERA as a starter is meaningless for the role he will fill as an Astro.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #843 on: August 03, 2017, 07:56:00 am »
Rosenthal with more details on the Astros deadline:

https://m.facebook.com/kenrosenthalsports/posts/1468518593213867


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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #844 on: August 03, 2017, 11:41:30 am »
Rosenthal with more details on the Astros deadline:

https://m.facebook.com/kenrosenthalsports/posts/1468518593213867


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Some interesting stuff there.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #845 on: August 03, 2017, 01:24:13 pm »
You may be right or at least Ken Rosenthal seems to agree with you. Since I posted that, I heard him say on MLB Network he thought Santana would make it thru waivers (though he didn't seem entirely sure of himself when he said it).

I would be surprised if Santana makes it through waivers because there's not that much of a financial obligation left. 

Verlander, on the other hand, has a huge contract.  I'd be surprised if someone claimed Verlander.  Frankly, given where the Tigers are right now, if someone did claim Verlander, I could see them letting him go.   
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #846 on: August 03, 2017, 02:37:31 pm »
I would be surprised if Santana makes it through waivers because there's not that much of a financial obligation left. 

Verlander, on the other hand, has a huge contract.  I'd be surprised if someone claimed Verlander.  Frankly, given where the Tigers are right now, if someone did claim Verlander, I could see them letting him go.   

Listening to MLB this morning, they (don't know who) stated the opposite.  Said Detroit Ownership is not worried about money right now, which is probably why Verlander wasn't moved prior to the deadline.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #847 on: August 03, 2017, 07:18:10 pm »
Rosenthal with more details on the Astros deadline:

https://m.facebook.com/kenrosenthalsports/posts/1468518593213867


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I still don't get why Dodgers considered to be such big winners landing the prize Darvish.  He really has not been good this year.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #848 on: August 03, 2017, 07:20:19 pm »
Rosenthal with more details on the Astros deadline:

https://m.facebook.com/kenrosenthalsports/posts/1468518593213867

"...and a third, unidentified high-end type whose addition would have surprised the industry."

Roberto Osuna?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #849 on: August 03, 2017, 09:45:13 pm »
"...and a third, unidentified high-end type whose addition would have surprised the industry."

Roberto Osuna?

I was thinking Iglesias (CIN)?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #850 on: August 04, 2017, 02:51:13 am »
Let's see ...

1) there were no true game-changers on the block; Gray is nice, but he's not the difference between also-rans and world champions; there was no 1998 Randy Johnson (or, on the offensive side, 2004 Carlos Beltran) out there; the Yankees needed Gray more than the Astros, because, despite the recent run of mediocrity, the Astros are still the better team;

2) the Astros were reportedly highly focused and very near obtaining one of the very best relievers available, but the other team's owner pulled back; but for a dyspeptic octogenarian in Baltimore, people would be praising Luhnow as the second coming of Branch Rickey; that seems like pretty flimsy grounds for people to base an opinion;

3) contrary to some complaints, the Astros didn't put all their eggs in one basket with Britton; they reportedly had a couple of other deals in the works concurrent with the Orioles trade; they didn't come through; that's life; you can't force other people to give you everything you want; the only thing you can control is how you react, i.e., not panicking;

4) they obtained a pitcher whose overall body of work is unimpressive, but whose skill set upon closer inspection is very suitable to fill a specific hole in the bullpen, i.e., a lefty who can retire lefties; Liriano is yet another example of looking beyond superficiality to find someone who contributes to the roster in ways that may not seem obvious;

5) there is still no team in baseball that has more organizational talent, major-plus-minors-combined, than the Astros; better to have a general manager who focuses on the big picture, having a dominating team that can win for years to come, than one who panics and overpays due to fan and media (and apparently clubhouse) complaining;

6) no matter what moves the Astros could've made at the trade deadline, as someone else already pointed out, if enough key players can't get healthy and play effectively by the time the playoffs roll around, they're unlikely to get very far anyway; you can't remake your whole roster in July;

7) maybe the top prospects Luhnow refused to give up won't work out, but based on his track record, one or more of them probably will; by keeping them all, he increases the chance that the ones who do succeed won't do so elsewhere; this team is still early in its window;

8) Brian T. Smith sounds like the second coming of Pinwheel, stirring up shit just to have something to write about; Keuchel should've kept his comments behind closed doors, but Smith is fanning the flames by patting Keuchel on the head about it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 02:56:40 am by Arky Vaughan »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #851 on: August 04, 2017, 02:52:44 am »
And the fact that you can't enter an eight and a parenthesis without it making a freaking emoticon is a pretty poignant expression on where we are culturally and intellectually these days. It's like we're all back in elementary school.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #852 on: August 04, 2017, 03:27:12 am »
Let's see ...

1) there were no true game-changers on the block; Gray is nice, but he's not the difference between also-rans and world champions; there was no 1998 Randy Johnson (or, on the offensive side, 2004 Carlos Beltran) out there; the Yankees needed Gray more than the Astros, because, despite the recent run of mediocrity, the Astros are still the better team;

2) the Astros were reportedly highly focused and very near obtaining one of the very best relievers available, but the other team's owner pulled back; but for a dyspeptic octogenarian in Baltimore, people would be praising Luhnow as the second coming of Branch Rickey; that seems like pretty flimsy grounds for people to base an opinion;

3) contrary to some complaints, the Astros didn't put all their eggs in one basket with Britton; they reportedly had a couple of other deals in the works concurrent with the Orioles trade; they didn't come through; that's life; you can't force other people to give you everything you want; the only thing you can control is how you react, i.e., not panicking;

4) they obtained a pitcher whose overall body of work is unimpressive, but whose skill set upon closer inspection is very suitable to fill a specific hole in the bullpen, i.e., a lefty who can retire lefties; Liriano is yet another example of looking beyond superficiality to find someone who contributes to the roster in ways that may not seem obvious;

5) there is still no team in baseball that has more organizational talent, major-plus-minors-combined, than the Astros; better to have a general manager who focuses on the big picture, having a dominating team that can win for years to come, than one who panics and overpays due to fan and media (and apparently clubhouse) complaining;

6) no matter what moves the Astros could've made at the trade deadline, as someone else already pointed out, if enough key players can't get healthy and play effectively by the time the playoffs roll around, they're unlikely to get very far anyway; you can't remake your whole roster in July;

7) maybe the top prospects Luhnow refused to give up won't work out, but based on his track record, one or more of them probably will; by keeping them all, he increases the chance that the ones who do succeed won't do so elsewhere; this team is still early in its window;

8) Brian T. Smith sounds like the second coming of Pinwheel, stirring up shit just to have something to write about; Keuchel should've kept his comments behind closed doors, but Smith is fanning the flames by patting Keuchel on the head about it.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #853 on: August 04, 2017, 07:36:17 am »
And the fact that you can't enter an eight and a parenthesis without it making a freaking emoticon is a pretty poignant expression on where we are culturally and intellectually these days. It's like we're all back in elementary school.

Get off my lawn.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #854 on: August 04, 2017, 07:52:24 am »
I still don't get why Dodgers considered to be such big winners landing the prize Darvish.  He really has not been good this year.

Me either.  Seems like the Dodgers and Yankees got guys that Houston has handled pretty well this year.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #855 on: August 04, 2017, 10:47:30 am »
I still don't get why Dodgers considered to be such big winners landing the prize Darvish.  He really has not been good this year.

The same reason that Jose Quintana was transformed from "a decent starter often linked to the Astros who's really struggling this year" into "clearly the Gold Standard among available starters who everyone wanted" as soon as the Cubs traded for him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #856 on: August 04, 2017, 01:15:59 pm »
Verlander cleared waivers.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #857 on: August 04, 2017, 01:37:27 pm »
Verlander cleared waivers.

Interesting. Is there now a limited window during which teams can negotiate with Detroit, or could a deal be worked out anytime between now and the end of August?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #858 on: August 04, 2017, 01:43:30 pm »
Interesting. Is there now a limited window during which teams can negotiate with Detroit, or could a deal be worked out anytime between now and the end of August?

As I understand it, he is tradable to anyone for the rest of the season. He has to be on a roster before 9/1 to be eligible for the playoffs.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #859 on: August 04, 2017, 01:56:27 pm »
Uh, yes you can.  you have to click the "Don't use smileys." option under the "Attachments and other options" menu.

Good to know. Thanks, BG.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #860 on: August 05, 2017, 11:07:24 am »
Darvish and the Dojers defeat DeGrom and the Mets last night 6-0.
7/3/0/0/1/10.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #861 on: August 05, 2017, 11:10:29 am »
Darvish and the Dojers defeat DeGrom and the Mets last night 6-0.
7/3/0/0/1/10.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #862 on: August 05, 2017, 01:24:52 pm »
LA is 45 over.

And they've had a lot of injuries, too. Pretty remarkable season.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #863 on: August 06, 2017, 08:47:43 am »
I still fail to see the value of the Astros trade. Ok yell at me per usual I dont care
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #864 on: August 06, 2017, 11:25:05 am »
I still fail to see the value of the Astros trade. Ok yell at me per usual I dont care

The results have been disappointing so far but this was said by former teammate Goins of Liriano post-game last nite.

That's one guy when he was here I told him I never wanted to face him...I won this time, but that's one guy - he's nasty. His numbers say what they are, but he's one of the nastiest guys in the league.


Considering they gave up a young OFer they had no room for that is not a bad risk to take.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #865 on: August 06, 2017, 12:38:26 pm »
The A's have traded Yonder Alonso to the M's. I'm surprised he made it all the way down to the M's on the waiver wire, but maybe the M's were higher up than I thought.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #866 on: August 06, 2017, 05:39:56 pm »
The results have been disappointing so far but this was said by former teammate Goins of Liriano post-game last nite.

That's one guy when he was here I told him I never wanted to face him...I won this time, but that's one guy - he's nasty. His numbers say what they are, but he's one of the nastiest guys in the league.

I assumed they got him to be a LOOGY, but we'll see.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #867 on: August 07, 2017, 06:22:17 am »
Morosi reports Astros are talking to Tigers about Verlander.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #868 on: August 07, 2017, 09:57:12 am »
I assumed they got him to be a LOOGY, but we'll see.

I see no evidence to suggest otherwise.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #869 on: August 07, 2017, 10:12:58 am »
I assumed they got him to be a LOOGY, but we'll see.

I have to ask...what the fuck is a "LOOGY"?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #870 on: August 07, 2017, 10:20:40 am »
I have to ask...what the fuck is a "LOOGY"?

It's something along the lines of "Left handed one out only guy" but I don't think that necessarily applies to Liriano. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #871 on: August 07, 2017, 10:41:24 am »
I have to ask...what the fuck is a "LOOGY"?

Baseball Prospectus coined the term, I think.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #872 on: August 07, 2017, 11:03:01 am »
I have to ask...what the fuck is a "LOOGY"?

Trever Miller
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #873 on: August 07, 2017, 11:11:30 am »
I see no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Plenty of evidence. Hinch had him start the 10th Saturday.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #874 on: August 07, 2017, 11:30:03 am »
Plenty of evidence. Hinch had him start the 10th Saturday.

And on Wednesday he started the inning getting a righty out followed by a walk and a hit to the two lefties.  He's been described by several Astros people as "a lefty who can get righties out too."
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #875 on: August 07, 2017, 11:48:55 am »
Bob Nightengale‏ @BNightengale  3 hours ago
The #Astros called the #Tigers to check in on Justin Verlander, but nothing materialized; Tigers say Verlander likely to stay until winter.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #876 on: August 07, 2017, 12:23:15 pm »
Bob Nightengale‏ @BNightengale  3 hours ago
The #Astros called the #Tigers to check in on Justin Verlander, but nothing materialized; Tigers say Verlander likely to stay until winter.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #877 on: August 07, 2017, 05:13:25 pm »
Plenty of evidence. Hinch had him start the 10th Saturday.

That's worked out really fucking well.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #878 on: August 07, 2017, 06:57:35 pm »
That's worked out really fucking well.

Patience. He is trying too hard and overthrowing.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #879 on: August 08, 2017, 10:02:03 am »
Patience. He is trying too hard and overthrowing.

I imagine there is a human tendency to overthrow when you are not accustomed to working from the pen and know you won't be throwing many pitches. Also trying to impress new team?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #880 on: August 08, 2017, 10:35:47 am »
I imagine there is a human tendency to overthrow when you are not accustomed to working from the pen and know you won't be throwing many pitches. Also trying to impress new team?
Starting and coming in as a reliever are more different than most people think. When you start, you hold back and conserve energy, knowing your gonna throw 100 or so pitches. When you know your only going 1 inning, you throw harder but you also lose some command. Takes time to find the middle ground between throwing hard and throwing too hard.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #881 on: August 08, 2017, 10:42:49 am »
I imagine there is a human tendency to overthrow when you are not accustomed to working from the pen and know you won't be throwing many pitches. Also trying to impress new team?

The latter, not the former. He is trying to help the team.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #882 on: August 09, 2017, 08:53:30 pm »
Jay Bruce dealt to the Indians.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #883 on: August 13, 2017, 11:24:10 pm »
Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 9m ago
Source: #Astros continue to seek bullpen upgrades after adding Clippard and Liriano. Would like to add another left-handed reliever.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #884 on: August 13, 2017, 11:46:46 pm »
Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 9m ago
Source: #Astros continue to seek bullpen upgrades after adding Clippard and Liriano. Would like to add another left-handed reliever.

Which good lefties would have made it through waivers?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #885 on: August 14, 2017, 06:10:15 am »
Starting and coming in as a reliever are more different than most people think. When you start, you hold back and conserve energy, knowing your gonna throw 100 or so pitches. When you know your only going 1 inning, you throw harder but you also lose some command. Takes time to find the middle ground between throwing hard and throwing too hard.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #886 on: August 15, 2017, 09:13:07 am »
Which good lefties would have made it through waivers?

Here's a pretty good rundown of educated guesses:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/08/finding-a-left-handed-reliever-for-the-astros.html
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Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #887 on: August 15, 2017, 10:35:29 am »
Jon Heyman just reported that the Astros and Tigers are still discussing potential Verlander trade.

At least they are talking.....

Ok, crazy bold prediction here. Management liked what the saw from Keuchel Sunday and McHugh last night. I believe they feel comfortable that they have at least two solid starters for the playoffs with McCullers still a question mark. Verlander is scheduled to make his next start tonight against the Rangers. Luhnow doesn't let that happen and we acquire Verlander sometime today. His next start will be in MMP on Wednesday.

Playoff rotation will be Keuchel, Verlander, McHugh and/or McCullers.

Peacock and Morton move to bullpen come playoff time.




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« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 10:47:41 am by TerryPuhl21 »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #888 on: August 15, 2017, 10:51:37 am »
Do it.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #889 on: August 15, 2017, 11:08:56 am »
Double do it. The clubhouse needs a spark. Include Fisher and get Nori back.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #890 on: August 15, 2017, 11:36:00 am »
Minutes later, Heyman clarified that the teams spoke "last week" but have not discussed the deal "for several days".

Typical Heyman bullshit.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #891 on: August 15, 2017, 11:45:14 am »
Minutes later, Heyman clarified that the teams spoke "last week" but have not discussed the deal "for several days".

Typical Heyman bullshit.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #892 on: August 15, 2017, 11:50:19 am »
Minutes later, Heyman clarified that the teams spoke "last week" but have not discussed the deal "for several days".

Typical Heyman bullshit.


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So basically one of the teams used Heyman to say "call us" to the other team.
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Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #893 on: August 15, 2017, 12:55:41 pm »
I still think we get Verlander before all is said and done. I believe those 6 or 7 prospects were off limits to other teams at the trade deadline because we were going to need some of them to swing this deal. I think we end up with Verlander and the Tigers paying $20 mil of salary over the next two years. Tigers will demand some tough prospects in return because of Verlander's "icon status." I think the Tigers get some combo of 3 players off this list in return

K Tucker
F Whitley
F Perez
C Perez
D Paulino
D Cameron
J Musgrove

I'm in favor of making this deal in any combo that doesn't involve Tucker AND Whitley. My personal opinion is trade Whitley and hold on to Tucker. I'd rather have the everyday player. Ship Whitley, Cameron and any other player on that list besides Tucker and I will sleep well tonight!


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« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 12:59:03 pm by TerryPuhl21 »

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #894 on: August 15, 2017, 01:24:23 pm »
They have to keep Whitely and Franklin. Don't know if I could let Tucker go.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #895 on: August 15, 2017, 01:36:01 pm »
For those that know not of Whitley and his untouchable status, follow the link Nate posted in the Bus Ride here.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #896 on: August 15, 2017, 01:46:54 pm »
For those that know not of Whitley and his untouchable status, follow the link Nate posted in the Bus Ride here.

I believe I saw that the last 3 high school pitchers to make AA in their first full year were Dylan Bundy, Greinke, and Kershaw.

ETA: Sure enough, Nate had me Cabrera'd.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #897 on: August 15, 2017, 01:59:07 pm »
Double do it. The clubhouse needs a spark. Include Fisher and get Nori back.

Can't trade Fisher because he would have to clear waivers.  I read that the only prospects the Astros could include without having them go through waivers are those who aren't on the 40 man roster.  So how do you feel about trading Tucker the Younger for Verlander?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #898 on: August 15, 2017, 03:06:32 pm »
Can't trade Fisher because he would have to clear waivers.  I read that the only prospects the Astros could include without having them go through waivers are those who aren't on the 40 man roster.  So how do you feel about trading Tucker the Younger for Verlander?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #899 on: August 15, 2017, 03:23:47 pm »
This is as of last night in re: Verlander. Don’t know what is involved, players or terms wise but from a trusted friend who would know...

“We’ve given them an offer, and they said no. But we think they’ll soften as it’s a good offer.”

The offer in question was made late last week.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #900 on: August 15, 2017, 03:30:32 pm »
Did you think I was serious?

I didn't think the Aoki thing was serious.  But I think you would trade for Verlander.  I'm just trying to get a sense of what you would give in exchange.   
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #901 on: August 15, 2017, 03:42:53 pm »
This is as of last night in re: Verlander. Don’t know what is involved, players or terms wise but from a trusted friend who would know...

“We’ve given them an offer, and they said no. But we think they’ll soften as it’s a good offer.”

The offer in question was made late last week.

Oh, man, an insider! Keep us posted please.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #902 on: August 15, 2017, 05:54:20 pm »
This is as of last night in re: Verlander. Don’t know what is involved, players or terms wise but from a trusted friend who would know...

“We’ve given them an offer, and they said no. But we think they’ll soften as it’s a good offer.”

The offer in question was made late last week.

This is obviously a lie, since everyone knows the entire leagues hates Jeff Luhnow.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #903 on: August 15, 2017, 05:59:48 pm »
Verlander going against the Rangers tonight. Will definitely tune in
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #904 on: August 15, 2017, 06:07:51 pm »
Verlander going against the Rangers tonight. Will definitely tune in
Me too. Am hoping to hear Verlander is a late, healthy scratch.  ;)


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #905 on: August 15, 2017, 09:29:12 pm »
Verlander going against the Rangers tonight. Will definitely tune in

So.  He was doing his best Fiers imitation?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #906 on: August 15, 2017, 09:45:58 pm »
So.  He was doing his best Fiers imitation?

Yes. He'll fit right in.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #907 on: August 15, 2017, 10:08:56 pm »
Yes. He'll fit right in.

Maybe the price dropped.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #908 on: August 16, 2017, 06:26:23 am »
So.  He was doing his best Fiers imitation?

The home runs were not a good look. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #909 on: August 16, 2017, 07:27:59 am »
The home runs were not a good look.

Look at the rest of his second half.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #910 on: August 16, 2017, 08:15:55 am »
Look at the rest of his second half.

Oh I know he's pitched well.  I was just commenting on last night.  And he didn't pitch bad overall last night, just hung a few breaking balls that were smacked pretty good. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #911 on: August 16, 2017, 08:20:50 am »
Oh I know he's pitched well.  I was just commenting on last night.  And he didn't pitch bad overall last night, just hung a few breaking balls that were smacked pretty good.

I hope Luhnow is on the phone today.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #912 on: August 16, 2017, 08:54:45 am »
Oh I know he's pitched well.  I was just commenting on last night.  And he didn't pitch bad overall last night, just hung a few breaking balls that were smacked pretty good.

The Gallo homer was a 97mph fastball up and over the middle of the plate.

Don't know if it's related to his performance but he's quoted last night as saying the trade rumors have been on his mind.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #913 on: August 16, 2017, 10:23:58 am »
The Gallo homer was a 97mph fastball up and over the middle of the plate.

Don't know if it's related to his performance but he's quoted last night as saying the trade rumors have been on his mind.

At the same time, he does not sound like someone that is interested in leaving Detroit:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/08/16/detroit-tigers-justin-verlander-trade-rumors/571559001/

If they were to make personnel moves in the off-season going forward that were to signal a rebuild, is that something that you want to be a part of at this stage of your career?

“I think, you know, I think it would be tough to be part of a full rebuild. I don’t know what the plan is. That’s a question for (general manager) Al (Avila). I think from what he’s said in the past, it’s more along the lines of a transition, slowly transitioning and not necessarily, it’s not just like shipping everybody off, it’s move pieces when and if you can. If you want. I think right now, I’m looking around the locker room and I think Miguel (Cabrera) will be back here, I’ll be back here, (Ian) Kinsler will be back here, Justin Upton will be back here and a lot of other guys. So I think a lot of other teams would think that’s a pretty good core. (Michael) Fulmer. So. (Jordan) Zimmermann. That’s a pretty good core of guys. There’s a brighter side to look at it than there is right now, in my opinion.”

Is there anything specific in your mind that needs to change?

“No.”
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #914 on: August 16, 2017, 10:36:46 am »
At the same time, he does not sound like someone that is interested in leaving Detroit:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/08/16/detroit-tigers-justin-verlander-trade-rumors/571559001/

If they were to make personnel moves in the off-season going forward that were to signal a rebuild, is that something that you want to be a part of at this stage of your career?

“I think, you know, I think it would be tough to be part of a full rebuild. I don’t know what the plan is. That’s a question for (general manager) Al (Avila). I think from what he’s said in the past, it’s more along the lines of a transition, slowly transitioning and not necessarily, it’s not just like shipping everybody off, it’s move pieces when and if you can. If you want. I think right now, I’m looking around the locker room and I think Miguel (Cabrera) will be back here, I’ll be back here, (Ian) Kinsler will be back here, Justin Upton will be back here and a lot of other guys. So I think a lot of other teams would think that’s a pretty good core. (Michael) Fulmer. So. (Jordan) Zimmermann. That’s a pretty good core of guys. There’s a brighter side to look at it than there is right now, in my opinion.”

Is there anything specific in your mind that needs to change?

“No.”

What would you say?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #915 on: August 16, 2017, 10:53:08 am »
What would you say?

I would say that I have been a lifelong fan of the Astros and that I'd do anything and make any concessions possible to pitch for them. That's what I'd say.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

MusicMan

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #916 on: August 16, 2017, 10:53:11 am »
What would you say?

I'm just here to help the ballclub. I'm just going to take it one game at a time.


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #917 on: August 16, 2017, 10:54:13 am »
I would say that I have been a lifelong fan of the Astros and that I'd do anything and make any concessions possible to pitch for them. That's what I'd say.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #919 on: August 16, 2017, 01:14:14 pm »
Luhnow on 790:

"I would set our expectations very low that anything happens between now & the end of the month."


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #920 on: August 16, 2017, 01:20:09 pm »
So, should we expect anything to happen between now and the end of the month?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #921 on: August 16, 2017, 01:27:13 pm »
Luhnow on 790:

"I would set our expectations very low that anything happens between now & the end of the month."


...which is all we care about since any arrivals after the 31st are not eligible for the post season.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #922 on: August 16, 2017, 01:31:27 pm »
Luhnow on 790:

"I would set our expectations very low that anything happens between now & the end of the month."


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To get any deal done in any endeavor, there must be compromise. Let's see if these two teams believe that. Could be the Tigers want to keep him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #923 on: August 16, 2017, 01:32:56 pm »
Luhnow on 790:

"I would set our expectations very low that anything happens between now & the end of the month."


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I've always felt that a Verlander deal was a less than 50% proposition, but the fact that Luhnow would say this now does nothing to make me even more pessimistic.  GM-speak is as real a thing as coach-speak.  They say stuff all the time they know is bullshit, and after the trade deadline, you can't blame Luhnow for wanting to dampen expectations.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #924 on: August 16, 2017, 02:02:10 pm »
I've always felt that a Verlander deal was a less than 50% proposition, but the fact that Luhnow would say this now does nothing to make me even more pessimistic.  GM-speak is as real a thing as coach-speak.  They say stuff all the time they know is bullshit, and after the trade deadline, you can't blame Luhnow for wanting to dampen expectations.

He also is saying to Detroit: "We made you a good offer. If you refuse it, ok, but we think it is a good one."
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #925 on: August 16, 2017, 07:41:46 pm »
He also is saying to Detroit: "We made you a good offer. If you refuse it, ok, but we think it is a good one."
That would jive with something I saw/heard yesterday that the Astros had made a solid offer they hope the Tigers would "soften on and accept."


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #926 on: August 16, 2017, 07:48:59 pm »
That would jive with something I saw/heard yesterday that the Astros had made a solid offer they hope the Tigers would "soften on and accept."


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Zipp's post
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #927 on: August 16, 2017, 09:48:04 pm »
Zipp's post

No new news.  If anything happens it’ll be because Detroit changes their mind, I think.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #928 on: August 16, 2017, 10:50:58 pm »
No new news.  If anything happens it’ll be because Detroit changes their mind, I think.

I hope we continue to try to make it work.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #929 on: August 16, 2017, 11:20:05 pm »
I have this feeling that the Astros are playing chicken with the tigers, the problem is, the tigers are driving a train.

Tigers have all the leverage, the Astros need verlander more than the tigers need to trade him.

It's easy for them to say, we don't need to trade him, we can contend next year.

I hope a deal gets done but, I'm sceptical.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #930 on: August 16, 2017, 11:28:59 pm »
I have this feeling that the Astros are playing chicken with the tigers, the problem is, the tigers are driving a train.

Tigers have all the leverage, the Astros need verlander more than the tigers need to trade him.

It's easy for them to say, we don't need to trade him, we can contend next year.

I hope a deal gets done but, I'm sceptical.

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I do not disagree. That is why I hope Luhnow is doing more than waiting for the phone to ring.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #931 on: August 17, 2017, 08:28:48 am »
I do not disagree. That is why I hope Luhnow is doing more than waiting for the phone to ring.

I heard on 790 yesterday (shortly before 6:00) that Luhnow said no significant moves would be made.  Of course, this was not a soundbit of Luhnow but the guys talking about it.  And maybe Luhnow said that to throw people off the scent.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #932 on: August 17, 2017, 08:40:30 am »
I heard on 790 yesterday (shortly before 6:00) that Luhnow said no significant moves would be made.  Of course, this was not a soundbit of Luhnow but the guys talking about it.  And maybe Luhnow said that to throw people off the scent.

I think his quote was folks should have "low expectations." I trust his judgment, but I hope he will be more aggressive than to make an offer and then wait for Detroit to cave. As doyce said, the trade is more important to us than to them.
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toddthebod

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #933 on: August 17, 2017, 11:06:21 am »
I hope he will be more aggressive than to make an offer and then wait for Detroit to cave.

Totally agreed. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #934 on: August 17, 2017, 11:45:47 am »
Totally agreed.

To anticipate your next blast, a failure to make this trade does not mean he was not aggressive. The Tigers have to want to trade.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #935 on: August 17, 2017, 11:48:41 am »
The Tigers have to want to trade.

This.  All day long. 
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toddthebod

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #936 on: August 17, 2017, 12:19:50 pm »
To anticipate your next blast, a failure to make this trade does not mean he was not aggressive. The Tigers have to want to trade.

I have no expectations about an August trade for Verlander so there won't be a "next blast" if no trade is made.

But there were plenty of options prior to the July trade deadline that did not just include Verlander.  I continue to believe that Luhnow fucked up the July deadline pretty badly. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #937 on: August 17, 2017, 12:30:00 pm »
I have no expectations about an August trade for Verlander so there won't be a "next blast" if no trade is made.

But there were plenty of options prior to the July trade deadline that did not just include Verlander.  I continue to believe that Luhnow fucked up the July deadline pretty badly.

I continue to think you are fucking wrong. I cannot forget four team trade Todd.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #938 on: August 17, 2017, 12:36:21 pm »
To anticipate your next blast, a failure to make this trade does not mean he was not aggressive. The Tigers have to want to trade.

We're right back to where we were on July 31st.  Yes, the Tigers have to want to trade, but it's Luhnow's job to try to make them want to trade Verlander.

Some of us are on record as thinking the Astros should be "all in" on this season.  That would mean making an offer like Tucker/Martes/Cameron is not out of the question.  When you consider how good this front office is at stockpiling organizational talent, I think they can afford to be more aggressive with it when needs arise at the major league level.  It's clear that Luhnow did not share that "all in" view on July 31st, and he probably hasn't changed his mind.  If this deal isn't made, it's fair to say that the Astros weren't "aggressive enough", but only time will tell if they were wrong.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #939 on: August 17, 2017, 12:39:03 pm »
I have no expectations about an August trade for Verlander so there won't be a "next blast" if no trade is made.

But there were plenty of options prior to the July trade deadline that did not just include Verlander.  I continue to believe that Luhnow fucked up the July deadline pretty badly.

I thought Luhnow made it very clear that he wasn't going to sacrifice what he saw as the future of the team to get a deal done.  I believe he sees Tucker Jr. as a regular outfielder in 2019.  I also think he sees several of the highest end prospect pitchers as major leaguers by then too.  I think he see Martes as one of the 5 starters next year if not the big armed multi-inning counter to Devenski's change up in the bullpen.  I truly don't believe he'll deal any of those guys.  I also think Moran's injury and especially Paulino's suspension harmed his ability to get a deal done.  Beyond that who else was major league or near major league ready?  JD Davis wasn't going to get Brad Hand or Justin Wilson.  I don't consider that fucking up.  I consider that sticking to your plan.  It looks to me like he executed his plan.  Did the plan cost him a strong post-season run?
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Jacksonian

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #940 on: August 17, 2017, 12:41:13 pm »
We're right back to where we were on July 31st.  Yes, the Tigers have to want to trade, but it's Luhnow's job to try to make them want to trade Verlander.


And if they've wanted a major league ready top of the rotation pitcher or it's a no-go?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #941 on: August 17, 2017, 12:44:54 pm »
I doubt I would trade Martes for Verlander.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #942 on: August 17, 2017, 12:46:59 pm »
I doubt I would trade Martes for Verlander.

The Astros have needed Martes in the bullpen since early July.  I don't see how they could have afforded to trade him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #943 on: August 17, 2017, 12:48:11 pm »
I also do not know the rules for trading anyone now on the 25 man. Through waivers only, I assume.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #944 on: August 17, 2017, 12:53:37 pm »
I also do not know the rules for trading anyone now on the 25 man. Through waivers only, I assume.

25 man and 40 man have to go through waivers now.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #945 on: August 17, 2017, 12:56:30 pm »
25 man and 40 man have to go through waivers now.

Limits the options quite a bit without cooperation from other teams.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #946 on: August 17, 2017, 12:58:17 pm »
I doubt I would trade Martes for Verlander.

Agree. It's quite possibly like trading 2005 Verlander for 2017 Verlander.  Martes looks that good to me.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #947 on: August 17, 2017, 12:58:35 pm »
And if they've wanted a major league ready top of the rotation pitcher or it's a no-go?

No. It takes two reasonable sides. His duty is the best interests of the franchise. There are two issues: Verlander's contract and prospects.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #948 on: August 17, 2017, 01:02:02 pm »
I have no expectations about an August trade for Verlander so there won't be a "next blast" if no trade is made.

But there were plenty of options prior to the July trade deadline that did not just include Verlander.  I continue to believe that Luhnow fucked up the July deadline pretty badly.

What were his options? What did he do? What did he not do? What should he have done? What is your source?
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toddthebod

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #949 on: August 17, 2017, 01:30:41 pm »
What were his options? What did he do? What did he not do? What should he have done? What is your source?

You know who was traded at the deadline and before that.  You can go back and read all of the articles written in July if you would like.  I have neither the time nor the inclination. 
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #950 on: August 17, 2017, 01:42:41 pm »
You know who was traded at the deadline and before that.  You can go back and read all of the articles written in July if you would like.  I have neither the time nor the inclination.

Just as I though. You have no factual basis for your blast.
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TerryPuhl21

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #951 on: August 20, 2017, 03:07:36 pm »
Meanwhile, Verlander goes 8 innings today and only gives up 2 hits while shutting down the best team in the game. Just saying...


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #952 on: August 20, 2017, 06:54:58 pm »
Meanwhile, Verlander goes 8 innings today and only gives up 2 hits while shutting down the best team in the game. Just saying...


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I miss the days when the Tigers and Astros had FO nepotism rolling. 

Why won't those assholes just trade him to us already?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #953 on: August 22, 2017, 07:56:46 am »
FWIW, Detroit is sticking by their "no" answer.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #954 on: August 22, 2017, 09:48:40 am »
FWIW, Detroit is sticking by their "no" answer.

Are negotiations over?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #955 on: August 22, 2017, 10:40:37 am »
Are negotiations over?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #956 on: August 22, 2017, 10:41:49 am »
"Nothin' is over until we say it's over!"


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I hope that's true. ETA: there also is a difference between "We are not trading him" and "We are not trading him for that offer."
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:43:46 am by JimR »
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Jose Cruz III

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #957 on: August 28, 2017, 05:32:13 pm »
Aoki has been DFA. Maybe we can get him back for cash considerations.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #958 on: August 28, 2017, 05:48:51 pm »
Aoki has been DFA. Maybe we can get him back for cash considerations.

What a horrible end to this year for him. I wish we would try to reacquire him.
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #959 on: August 28, 2017, 06:57:59 pm »
What a horrible end to this year for him. I wish we would try to reacquire him.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #960 on: August 28, 2017, 07:00:07 pm »
Send Davis down. Problem solved.

there is just a couple of days before the expanded rosters so you don't even have to do that.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #961 on: August 28, 2017, 10:01:25 pm »
there is just a couple of days before the expanded rosters so you don't even have to do that.

Don't have to. Just want to. He needs some more seasoning, working on baseball fundamentals.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

DVauthrin

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #962 on: August 28, 2017, 10:13:22 pm »
What a horrible end to this year for him. I wish we would try to reacquire him.

Agreed.  He never should've been traded in the first place.
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Jose Cruz III

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #963 on: August 29, 2017, 07:16:36 pm »
What a horrible end to this year for him. I wish we would try to reacquire him.
It will just take the league minimum money now. He has been released by Toronto,
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David in Jackson

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #964 on: August 31, 2017, 10:43:35 am »
Juan Nicasio of Pittsburgh has been released.  He's a pretty good reliever.  What would be the cost to the club if he signs w Houston?  Draft pick?  Just remainder of year's salary?
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doyce7

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #965 on: August 31, 2017, 01:57:24 pm »
Juan Nicasio of Pittsburgh has been released.  He's a pretty good reliever.  What would be the cost to the club if he signs w Houston?  Draft pick?  Just remainder of year's salary?
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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #966 on: September 21, 2017, 01:30:14 pm »
Looks like we dodged a bullet at the trade deadline with not being able to work out a deal for Zach Britton.

He's having a stem cell injection in his knee today that will likely end his season.

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #967 on: September 21, 2017, 02:02:45 pm »
The irony.  Wasn't their owner concerned about our guy being damaged?


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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #968 on: September 21, 2017, 02:19:53 pm »
The irony.  Wasn't their owner concerned about our guy being damaged?

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #969 on: September 21, 2017, 03:08:00 pm »
The irony.  Wasn't their owner concerned about our guy being damaged?

who were we supposedly sending them?

BizidyDizidy

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #970 on: September 21, 2017, 03:18:48 pm »
who were we supposedly sending them?

Moran maybe?
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JimR

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Re: Trade Deadline 2017
« Reply #971 on: September 22, 2017, 01:15:38 pm »
Moran maybe?

My ESPN source said a pitcher was involved.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.