Author Topic: The Outfield Controversy  (Read 10450 times)

VirtualBob

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The Outfield Controversy
« on: July 28, 2016, 08:36:34 am »
Seems like there have been opinions on upgrading the outfield (or at least the offensive production from outfielders) in a number of recent threads.  I was looking at July performance recently and noticed this slash line:

       .325/.341/.425

Anyone care to guess which outfielder that belongs to?
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pots

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 08:38:32 am »
Seems like there have been opinions on upgrading the outfield (or at least the offensive production from outfielders) in a number of recent threads.  I was looking at July performance recently and noticed this slash line:

       .325/.341/.425

Anyone care to guess which outfielder that belongs to?

Without looking I'd guess Marisnick.  But as long as Gomez is on the team he'll never be a starter

VirtualBob

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 08:52:55 am »
Without looking I'd guess Marisnick.  But as long as Gomez is on the team he'll never be a starter
Right on both counts.  And 0 walks in 40+ PA is not a positive.  But it is still a line that we should be satisfied with for OF#4.
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juliogotay

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 10:30:39 am »
Right on both counts.  And 0 walks in 40+ PA is not a positive.  But it is still a line that we should be satisfied with for OF#4.

I think we are satisfied with Jake as OFer #4. Isn't the question whether he would be better as the everyday guy in CF?
When Bregman and the Cubano settle in I am hopeful that we will be the CFer. I think they would have enough bats around him particularly if Gattis is getting a lot of starts behind the plate.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 02:27:52 pm »
I think we are satisfied with Jake as OFer #4. Isn't the question whether he would be better as the everyday guy in CF?
When Bregman and the Cubano settle in I am hopeful that we will be the CFer. I think they would have enough bats around him particularly if Gattis is getting a lot of starts behind the plate.
The Cubano doesn't have a name? Wow, I swear I thought he had an actual name like a real human being.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 02:29:58 pm »
The Cubano doesn't have a name? Wow, I swear I thought he had an actual name like a real human being.

He does but I haven't learned how to spell it Ruben.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 04:37:59 pm »
He does but I haven't learned how to spell it Ruben.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 05:06:06 pm »
He does but I haven't learned how to spell it Ruben.

Ive seen it spelled two ways.... Gourriel and Gurriel. The prevalent one seems to be Gourriel. I'm hesitant to spell it either way until I know for sure...

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 05:41:35 pm »
Ive seen it spelled two ways.... Gourriel and Gurriel. The prevalent one seems to be Gourriel. I'm hesitant to spell it either way until I know for sure...

The family changed the spelling to Gurriel from the previous Gourriel. MLB.com and Baseball America both spell it Gurriel. It's spelled Gurriel in the official roster information on the milb.com database. And the Astros spelled it Gurriel in the press release announcing his signing. I'd say that's all pretty definitive.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 05:44:11 pm »
The family changed the spelling to Gurriel from the previous Gourriel. MLB.com and Baseball America both spell it Gurriel. It's spelled Gurriel in the official roster information on the milb.com database. And the Astros spelled it Gurriel in the press release announcing his signing. I'd say that's all pretty definitive.

That settles that. Thanks!

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 12:40:01 pm »
Circling back to the original point of this thread.  Everybody always worries about whether Marisnick hits enough to play CF, and JimR always rolls his eyes at that.  I'd be curious what more informed baseball minds think of the notion i have that Marisnick is an ideal #9 hitter.

I would think a little bit of pop, a lot of speed to force the D to make plays, ability to steal a base so if he is on the pitcher has to worry about him while facing the leadoff hitter, and plays a tough defensive position well.  Maybe you'd like a bit more contact?  Not sure if that is any more important at 9 than the rest of the lineup.

Admittedly I'm a  Jake fan, but until Gomez and Rasmus revert to 2013 form, seems to me he has more to offer in his role than they do.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2016, 12:50:46 pm »
Circling back to the original point of this thread.  Everybody always worries about whether Marisnick hits enough to play CF, and JimR always rolls his eyes at that.  I'd be curious what more informed baseball minds think of the notion i have that Marisnick is an ideal #9 hitter.

I would think a little bit of pop, a lot of speed to force the D to make plays, ability to steal a base so if he is on the pitcher has to worry about him while facing the leadoff hitter, and plays a tough defensive position well.  Maybe you'd like a bit more contact?  Not sure if that is any more important at 9 than the rest of the lineup.

Admittedly I'm a  Jake fan, but until Gomez and Rasmus revert to 2013 form, seems to me he has more to offer in his role than they do.

JimR is clearly on record as liking Marisnick as a fourth OF. However, he's made a case to start over the past month,m particularly as Gomez and Rasmus have scuffled so badly.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2016, 01:02:28 pm »
i was referring to JimR's exasperation/anger over the statement "X doesn't hit enough to play (position)"

I am wondering if there is a corollary in the minds of those who think that way that "X hits enough to bat Nth in the lineup" and if so, would anyone second my view that Marisnick might be the "best #9 hitter" on the team? 

I recall years ago in the TZ a nice explanation of ideal lineup construction, but i doubt it touched on the 9 hole int he AL, given our priorities at the time.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2016, 01:25:06 pm »
I recall years ago in the TZ a nice explanation of ideal lineup construction, but i doubt it touched on the 9 hole int he AL, given our priorities at the time.

I'm pretty sure Jim wrote that.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2016, 01:39:49 pm »
Rasmus is now at the point of being one of the worst regulars in baseball.  Who'd have thought that in April?
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2016, 01:54:10 pm »
Why isn't Rasmus on the DL???  He has some ear infection thing.  Send him down, he is absolutely useless right now.  Give him a week off, then some at bats at AAA to see if he can get going again.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2016, 02:10:45 pm »
Why isn't Rasmus on the DL???  He has some ear infection thing.  Send him down, he is absolutely useless right now.  Give him a week off, then some at bats at AAA to see if he can get going again.

I read it was surgery required to remove the cyst

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2016, 02:26:54 pm »
Rasmus is now at the point of being one of the worst regulars in baseball.  Who'd have thought that in April?

His last 28 days, he's 2-50.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2016, 02:34:56 pm »
but he has such nice hair
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2016, 04:48:48 pm »
I read it was surgery required to remove the cyst

OK
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2016, 05:07:36 pm »
His last 28 days, he's 2-50.

That's downright Bregmanian.

I'll see myself out.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2016, 07:57:47 pm »
naa stay awhile.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2016, 12:02:41 am »
His last 28 days, he's 2-50.
To drive the point further home, he now is 3 for his last 66 ABs after tonight.  That could be the worst run ever. Throw in Bregman's 2 for 32, even though I know Bregman has played 3rd some, and the Astros left field platoon is batting .050 over the last month.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2016, 08:31:46 am »
To drive the point further home, he now is 3 for his last 66 ABs after tonight.  That could be the worst run ever. Throw in Bregman's 2 for 32, even though I know Bregman has played 3rd some, and the Astros left field platoon is batting .050 over the last month.

Bregman has played most, if not all, of his defensive innings at 3B.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2016, 11:31:17 am »
i was referring to JimR's exasperation/anger over the statement "X doesn't hit enough to play (position)"

I am wondering if there is a corollary in the minds of those who think that way that "X hits enough to bat Nth in the lineup" and if so, would anyone second my view that Marisnick might be the "best #9 hitter" on the team? 

I recall years ago in the TZ a nice explanation of ideal lineup construction, but i doubt it touched on the 9 hole int he AL, given our priorities at the time.

JimR, who is not one of your "more informed baseball minds," wrote that piece, and it is archived here somewhere.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 03:21:08 pm »
Springer was just on 790, if you missed it you should listen to the podcast. That was hilarious.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2016, 10:48:10 am »
Why isn't Rasmus on the DL???  He has some ear infection thing.  Send him down, he is absolutely useless right now.  Give him a week off, then some at bats at AAA to see if he can get going again.

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 51s52 seconds ago Houston, TX
Colby Rasmus on DL. #Astros recall Tony Kemp

FINALLY! 

And yes, i know this news was posted in another thread.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2016, 11:27:40 am »
The way I see it, we need someone to replace Rasmus next year.  Playing all 3 OF positions is obviously a plus. A contact hitter to balance out all the free swingers in this lineup would be great. A left handed hitter would be even better. And if he were a veteran who could impart an actual plate discipline approach to these youngsters, it would be fantastic.

Am I crazy for saying that we should try to sign Ichiro?
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2016, 11:32:34 am »
He's 42 years old, and before this year his last good season was in 2010. So I'm gonna say Yes, you're crazy.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2016, 11:47:37 am »
The way I see it, we need someone to replace Rasmus next year.  Playing all 3 OF positions is obviously a plus. A contact hitter to balance out all the free swingers in this lineup would be great. A left handed hitter would be even better. And if he were a veteran who could impart an actual plate discipline approach to these youngsters, it would be fantastic.

Am I crazy for saying that we should try to sign Ichiro?
No you aren't crazy. He's 42 and still better than any OFer we have not named Springer.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2016, 06:14:10 pm »
No you aren't crazy. He's 42 and still better than any OFer we have not named Springer.
Whether he's better than Rasmus or Gomez is irrelevant. What matters is can they do better than Ichiro on the FA market or trade? I love Ichiro, but I would certainly hope they can do better.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2016, 10:01:55 pm »
There is zero reason f Gomez to be on the roster any longer. I like him and am disappointed to see him struggle like he has, but he is lost.   Let Jake play CF from here on out.  Maybe call up Teoscar.  But you can't keep running out Gomez and having him embarrass himself if you are serious about winning.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2016, 10:23:05 pm »
Gomez's post game comments.  Tough to listen too, he sounds like a beaten man. 

https://twitter.com/brianmctaggart/status/762844384102494209
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2016, 10:31:36 pm »
"@brianmctaggart I wish there was some sort of technology that would help him to see the ball, like maybe something he could wear on his eyes"
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2016, 10:33:01 pm »
"@brianmctaggart I wish there was some sort of technology that would help him to see the ball, like maybe something he could wear on his eyes"
Beat me by seconds.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2016, 10:59:11 pm »
The Gomez situation is hard to watch. Never fun to see a guy have his career fall apart. I like the fact that he stood up and took responsibility though... Some people might find a back door to slip out of.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2016, 11:47:43 pm »
The Gomez situation is hard to watch. Never fun to see a guy have his career fall apart. I like the fact that he stood up and took responsibility though... Some people might find a back door to slip out of.
Yeah I agree it's hard to watch him struggle. Tough to take responsibility for your actions after something like that and he did.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2016, 12:33:06 am »
Yeah I agree it's hard to watch him struggle. Tough to take responsibility for your actions after something like that and he did.

Why is it tough to take responsibility for your actions?  Why would you expect/accept anything else?
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2016, 06:15:36 am »
Why is it tough to take responsibility for your actions?  Why would you expect/accept anything else?

Thank you.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2016, 07:12:16 am »
Why is it tough to take responsibility for your actions?  Why would you expect/accept anything else?
I just think it would be hard for him to do this time and time again like he has this year. He took the blame for the loss and has to live with it. The worst part is they keep playing him knowing he's either not going to perform to expectations and or screw up. I think it's crazy how he's gone so downhill so fast.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2016, 07:32:02 am »
Why is it tough to take responsibility for your actions?  Why would you expect/accept anything else?

Exactly
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2016, 08:08:28 am »
I just think it would be hard for him to do this time and time again like he has this year. He took the blame for the loss and has to live with it. The worst part is they keep playing him knowing he's either not going to perform to expectations and or screw up. I think it's crazy how he's gone so downhill so fast.

Well that's his job. It comes with the territory. You get to stand there next to Julia, soaked in Gatorade and explain that you just tried to put a good swing on the ball, and you have to stand there and explain that you made an error that cost three runs. That's being a baseball player.

I agree that I didn't see him falling off the cliff like he has.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2016, 09:11:55 am »
I thought he would be a good player and a key component to this year's club, so I'm in no position to criticize the trade.  That being said, I'm surprised Luhnow hasn't just accepted the mistake and released him.  I was honestly expecting to wake up this morning and hear he'd been DFA'd as I don't see the small probability of his resurgence being worth keeping him.   

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2016, 09:15:53 am »
Why is it tough to take responsibility for your actions?  Why would you expect/accept anything else?

Because we don't even expect it of our Presidential candidates any more?


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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2016, 09:33:04 am »
I just think it would be hard for him to do this time and time again like he has this year. He took the blame for the loss and has to live with it. The worst part is they keep playing him knowing he's either not going to perform to expectations and or screw up. I think it's crazy how he's gone so downhill so fast.

Hopefully the 9mm dollars he's making this year helps ease some of the burden.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2016, 09:33:06 am »
I thought he would be a good player and a key component to this year's club, so I'm in no position to criticize the trade.  That being said, I'm surprised Luhnow hasn't just accepted the mistake and released him.  I was honestly expecting to wake up this morning and hear he'd been DFA'd as I don't see the small probability of his resurgence being worth keeping him.   
I'm guessing he is done as soon as some flight schedules get worked out for his replacement. 
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2016, 12:13:37 pm »
I'm guessing he is done as soon as some flight schedules get worked out for his replacement.

an open roster spot can replace his productivity.

The best thing I've seen him do this year is that slide Sunday into HP. Good baserunning.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2016, 05:00:18 pm »
Springer in center for tonights game, I like that.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2016, 05:40:40 pm »
Springer in center for tonights game, I like that.

With Devenski on the mound I would have much rather seen a more defensive outfield.  He tends to test his fielders often.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 05:44:49 pm by pots »

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2016, 10:54:40 am »
Teo has been called up for tonight's game.


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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2016, 11:01:40 am »
Teo has been called up for tonight's game.


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I hope this results in the end of Preston tucker in the outfield.

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2016, 11:21:39 am »
I hope this results in the end of Preston tucker in the outfield.

It's more likely until Giles return.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2016, 02:27:28 pm »
It's more likely until Giles return.

Nope. Gregerson activated, Giles to paternity list. Still need a move for Teo.


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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2016, 02:39:15 pm »
Nope. Gregerson activated, Giles to paternity list. Still need a move for Teo.


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Then if they stick with the 8-man bullpen it's either Kemp or Tucker.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2016, 02:44:20 pm »
Then if they stick with the 8-man bullpen it's either Kemp or Tucker.
Has to be tucker... right?

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2016, 02:57:53 pm »
According to this tweet, it's Tucker landing on the DL.

Jake Kaplan ‏@jakemkaplan 14s15 seconds ago
Preston Tucker to DL
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2016, 03:08:50 pm »
According to this tweet, it's Tucker landing on the DL.

Jake Kaplan ‏@jakemkaplan 14s15 seconds ago
Preston Tucker to DL

According to Julia he suffers from right shoulder strain.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2016, 03:08:54 pm »
Teo has been called up for tonight's game.


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Wow,  that's the last of the talent that was dominating at AAA.  Well Kemmer has been on a tear lately.  Looking forward to Teo's debut.  Kind of an anti-Gomez approach.  He's given up power for a more patient, contact, on base strategy.  Has really paid off this year.  Probably just a cup of coffee for him till Gurriel is ready.  Teo-Marisnick-Springer would be a pretty good outfield defense as well. 

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2016, 03:14:38 pm »
Teo-Marisnick-Springer would be a pretty good outfield defense as well.

Tonight its Marwin-Teo-Springer.
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2016, 04:27:41 pm »
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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2016, 11:36:12 pm »
Wow,  that's the last of the talent that was dominating at AAA. 

I see Brady Rodgers somewhere waving his hand.

10 rookies on the active roster in August. Who saw that one coming back in March?

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2016, 07:55:48 am »
What a weird deal.  I don't understand why he or the Astros waited so long to address this.

Right or wrong, he tried to play through it.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

pots

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Re: The Outfield Controversy
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2016, 08:04:01 am »
I see Brady Rodgers somewhere waving his hand.

10 rookies on the active roster in August. Who saw that one coming back in March?

Sorry, I was referring to position players.  I didn't state it correctly.  Rodgers and Hauschild have pitched well this season.  Rodgers almost certainly has earned himself a 40 man spot come November perhaps even a callup in September.  Hauschild will certainly be in the 40 man discussion
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:10:44 am by pots »