WTF

[Jacksonian]

Nice and now a coup attempt in Turkey.

[geezerdonk]

Secularity in the government and individual rights have eroded under Erdogan. The military has exercised its traditional role as guarantor of a secular democracy; a role envisioned and implemented by Ataturk. This is not Turkey's first military coup. If the past is a guide, the military will quickly restore order and install a civilian secular democratic government.

[MusicMan]

US embassy reports fighters overhead

Which means Turkey is flying the coup.


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[Fredia]

forgive me i have to do the with God as my witness I thought turkeys could fly

[Knoxbanedoodle]

US embassy reports fighters overhead

Which means Turkey is flying the coup.

Nominated.

[JimR]

US embassy reports fighters overhead

Which means Turkey is flying the coup.


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I wish there was a place to nominate this.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

My head hurts. The "P" is silent.       

[MusicMan]

My head hurts. The "P" is silent.       

That's why it only works in writing.


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[austro]

The Trump-Pence logo didn't even last 24 hours. Makes one wonder if there are any actual professionals involved in that campaign.

[Fredia]

depends on the profession.. use your imagination..

[MusicMan]

The Trump-Pence logo didn't even last 24 hours. Makes one wonder if there are any actual professionals involved in that campaign.

Of course not.


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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The Trump-Pence logo didn't even last 24 hours. Makes one wonder if there are any actual professionals involved in that campaign.

Is the "T" for Tallywhacker and the "P" for Pussy?

[Fredia]

http://tallywackers.com/

[juliogotay]

Is the "T" for Tallywhacker and the "P" for Pussy?

which is why you will never see Hillary wearing a "P"

[MusicMan]

Is the "T" for Tallywhacker and the "P" for Pussy?

I haven't heard "tallywhacker" since "Porky's".


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[PCOL2000]

I don't post a lot but I am currently stationed in Turkey at Incirlik, and last week was pretty crazy.  Early Saturday morning we lost power to the base and didn't have it for about a week.  Everyone basically moved into the few buildings that were run off of generators.  We still flew missions in support of the current fight - almost without a beat.  It was pretty awesome to be a part of. 

[Jacksonian]

I don't post a lot but I am currently stationed in Turkey at Incirlik, and last week was pretty crazy.  Early Saturday morning we lost power to the base and didn't have it for about a week.  Everyone basically moved into the few buildings that were run off of generators.  We still flew missions in support of the current fight - almost without a beat.  It was pretty awesome to be a part of.

Thank you

[juliogotay]

I don't post a lot but I am currently stationed in Turkey at Incirlik, and last week was pretty crazy.  Early Saturday morning we lost power to the base and didn't have it for about a week.  Everyone basically moved into the few buildings that were run off of generators.  We still flew missions in support of the current fight - almost without a beat.  It was pretty awesome to be a part of.

We appreciate your service and God Bless.

[MusicMan]

I don't post a lot but I am currently stationed in Turkey at Incirlik, and last week was pretty crazy.  Early Saturday morning we lost power to the base and didn't have it for about a week.  Everyone basically moved into the few buildings that were run off of generators.  We still flew missions in support of the current fight - almost without a beat.  It was pretty awesome to be a part of.

Thank you for your service.

But thank you further for reminding me that there are good men and women defending this country, and that the shitshow we see from our "leaders" doesn't represent what America is.


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[Knoxbanedoodle]

Speaking of: Trump just asked Putin to hack into Hillary Clinton's email. Is this the shark-jumping moment? Or was he born jumping sharks and thus immune to the effect?

[Bench]

Speaking of: Trump just asked Putin to hack into Hillary Clinton's email. Is this the shark-jumping moment? Or was he born jumping sharks and thus immune to the effect?

There were about a half-dozen comments in that press conference that in normal times would be the end of candidacy, in unusual times would each be a two-week scandal, but in this election merely float out into the ether. 

[austro]

There were about a half-dozen comments in that press conference that in normal times would be the end of candidacy, in unusual times would each be a two-week scandal, but in this election merely float out into the ether. 

I'm waiting to see the names he floats for his White House counsel possibilities (and Attorney General, too). Can you imagine having to somehow explain to His Trumpiness that he can't do something he wants to do?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I'm waiting to see the names he floats for his White House counsel possibilities (and Attorney General, too). Can you imagine having to somehow explain to His Trumpiness that he can't do something he wants to do?

"I'd like to announce my White House counsel, A Mop Bucket With Overwhelming Law School Debt."

[Bench]

"I'd like to announce my White House counsel, A Mop Bucket With Overwhelming Law School Debt."

He'll get the same quality of professional analysis as his doctor, who very scientifically stated "f elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency."

[austro]

He'll get the same quality of professional analysis as his doctor, who very scientifically stated "f elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency."

I suspect he found his "doctor" the same place he found his "publicist", Mr. Miller.

[Limey]

(One of) the latest shitstorms into which Trump gamboled happened when he insulting the parents of a Muslim-American Captain who was killed in combat.  I'm sure you've seen this.  Briefly, instead of doing something human, like thanking them for their sons sacrifice, and then doing something politically savvy, like pivoting to Clinton's vote for the Iraq war, he chose to insult the bereaved parents and claim that he has made sacrifices too.

Then Twitter exploded with #TrumpSacrifices, and it's pure comedy gold.  Here's a selection:

• Has to import wives as American women refuse to marry him.
• Donald struggled thru school because no matter how many times he raised his tiny hands, the teachers couldn't see 'em.
• Almost gave his life yesterday, trapped in an elevator for an hour.
• Once slept with an 8.
• Allowing his daughter to date other people
• Gave up his 5 spots in the military for another 5 men.
• Sometimes sits in chairs that aren't gold.
• "For Christ sake, I ate friggin' pizza off a paper plate with Sarah Palin."
• Had to eat a taco bowl to prove I love Hispanics
• Once had to take on a second job in PR just to make ends meet.
• Once had to work in a chocolate factory.
• Silver spoon left funny taste in mouth
• Once, when very hungry, actually ate a Trump Steak.
• Got ONLY a million dollars from Dad to start business
• Stayed married to the same woman for 15 years once.

Twitter has been Trump's mass communication vehicle of choice, but I think he's enjoyed "success" tweeting because most of the Twitterverse has happily ignored him.  Now that he's launched himself into a position of prominence like never before, I think he might come to feel the wrath of the collective wit of the internet.  #TrumpSacrifice

[Jacksonian]

(One of) the latest shitstorms into which Trump gamboled happened when he insulting the parents of a Muslim-American Captain who was killed in combat.  I'm sure you've seen this.  Briefly, instead of doing something human, like thanking them for their sons sacrifice, and then doing something politically savvy, like pivoting to Clinton's vote for the Iraq war, he chose to insult the bereaved parents and claim that he has made sacrifices too.

Then Twitter exploded with #TrumpSacrifices, and it's pure comedy gold.  Here's a selection:

• Has to import wives as American women refuse to marry him.
• Donald struggled thru school because no matter how many times he raised his tiny hands, the teachers couldn't see 'em.
• Almost gave his life yesterday, trapped in an elevator for an hour.
• Once slept with an 8.
• Allowing his daughter to date other people
• Gave up his 5 spots in the military for another 5 men.
• Sometimes sits in chairs that aren't gold.
• "For Christ sake, I ate friggin' pizza off a paper plate with Sarah Palin."
• Had to eat a taco bowl to prove I love Hispanics
• Once had to take on a second job in PR just to make ends meet.
• Once had to work in a chocolate factory.
• Silver spoon left funny taste in mouth
• Once, when very hungry, actually ate a Trump Steak.
• Got ONLY a million dollars from Dad to start business
• Stayed married to the same woman for 15 years once.

Twitter has been Trump's mass communication vehicle of choice, but I think he's enjoyed "success" tweeting because most of the Twitterverse has happily ignored him.  Now that he's launched himself into a position of prominence like never before, I think he might come to feel the wrath of the collective wit of the internet.  #TrumpSacrifice

And now as I understand it the other side of that coin is happening.  Apparently some are trying to tie the father to radical Islam through his work while he was in Saudi Arabia and to wanting Sharia Law imposed here in the States.  If there's anything to that Clinton may be asked to backtrack from him.

This is a wonderful election season.

[Limey]

And now as I understand it the other side of that coin is happening.  Apparently some are trying to tie the father to radical Islam through his work while he was in Saudi Arabia and to wanting Sharia Law imposed here in the States.  If there's anything to that Clinton may be asked to backtrack from him.

This is a wonderful election season.

The day after his confirmation as the nominee, Trump reiterated his interest in the story that Ted Cruz' father was in cahoots with Lee Harvey Oswald*   Yep, what a glorious time it is in politics worldwide.


* Checks Google to make sure he hasn't accidentally confused the spelling with a certain former pitcher...

[Knoxbanedoodle]

And now as I understand it the other side of that coin is happening.  Apparently some are trying to tie the father to radical Islam through his work while he was in Saudi Arabia and to wanting Sharia Law imposed here in the States.  If there's anything to that Clinton may be asked to backtrack from him.

This is a wonderful election season.

Imposing Sharia Law here in the States. Right. O.K.

I have no doubt "some are trying to tie" him to that.

[MusicMan]

Imposing Sharia Law here in the States. Right. O.K.

I have no doubt "some are trying to tie" him to that.

Sure, because that's the kind of guy that carries around the Constitution and allows his son to serve in the military.

"Some" are fucking disgusting.


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[HudsonHawk]

The problem is, the Republicans simple don't care about Trump's buffoonery. In fact they consider it a feature, not a bug to be corrected. He could go on a shooting rampage in the middle of Time's Square and they'd still vote for him.

[Mr. Happy]

The problem is, the Republicans simple don't care about Trump's buffoonery. In fact they consider it a feature, not a bug to be corrected. He could go on a shooting rampage in the middle of Time's Square and they'd still vote for him.

You're absolutely wrong, HH. There are a lot of Republicans who are going to stay home or vote Libertarian this time because they detest Trump.

[Waldo]

You're absolutely wrong, HH. There are a lot of Republicans who are going to stay home or vote Libertarian this time because they detest Trump.

I know a lot of republicans.  I would say about half of them are falling in line, a quarter are jumping ship, and a quarter are still undecided.

[HudsonHawk]

You're absolutely wrong, HH. There are a lot of Republicans who are going to stay home or vote Libertarian this time because they detest Trump.

Well, they threw him up as the man who best represents who they want as President.

[Nate Colbert]

And now as I understand it the other side of that coin is happening.  Apparently some are trying to tie the father to radical Islam through his work while he was in Saudi Arabia and to wanting Sharia Law imposed here in the States.  If there's anything to that Clinton may be asked to backtrack from him.

Really, really puzzled why you chose to post this. Either you're not very discriminating in the "news sources" you read where you picked this up from or you're tarring with the very same brush Trump is using.

[Jacksonian]

Really, really puzzled why you chose to post this. Either you're not very discriminating in the "news sources" you read where you picked this up from or you're tarring with the very same brush Trump is using.

Neither.  Trump backers are trying this.  That it's making its way to ordinary outlets including Yahoo's front page says the attempt is gaining traction.  Proof of it will draw out questions from the media.

[Mr. Happy]

Well, they threw him up as the man who best represents who they want as President.

It's not who the party brass wanted. Trump foist himself on them.

[WVastro]

It's not who the party brass wanted. Trump foist himself on them.

They may not have wanted him but they sure as hell  created him.

[HudsonHawk]

It's not who the party brass wanted. Trump foist himself on them.

But it's who the Republican voters wanted.  And the brass may not have wanted him, but that's who they begged for the last 8 years.  This is the culture they nurtured. 

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

But it's who the Republican voters wanted.  And the brass may not have wanted him, but that's who they begged for the last 8 years.  This is the culture they nurtured.

Agreed about the culture that was cultivated, but only 30-40% of GOP voters actually chose Trump.  In a less-crowded primary, he's done before Super Tuesday.

[BudGirl]

Agreed about the culture that was cultivated, but only 30-40% of GOP voters actually chose Trump.  In a less-crowded primary, he's done before Super Tuesday.

You reap what you sow.  I do not feel bad for any political party right now.  This country is a mess and I blame Senators and Representatives being too busy campaigning for their next job instead of doing the job they were elected to do.

One reason I would vote for Libertarian Johnson is because he is for term limits.  That alone may garner my vote.

[moriartp]

Agreed about the culture that was cultivated, but only 30-40% of GOP voters actually chose Trump.  In a less-crowded primary, he's done before Super Tuesday.

Maybe. If he'd been in a one-on-one race from the beginning, I think he'd have lost to most of the other candidates. But we saw how he performed in a three-way race at the end of the primaries: he won.

[jbm]

Trump's presence is scary, but keeping me interested.  I can imagine a wide range of outcomes from him winning, to his VP mate abandoning him, or even him dropping out before the election. 

[Limey]

It's not who the party brass wanted. Trump foist himself on them.

The party brass is reaping the whirlwind.  They sowed this wind over many years once they decided that, to win national elections, they needed social conservatives to add to the fiscal conservatives / libertarians already in their tent.  To get the social conservatives, they stoked the fires of resentment towards "others" and ended up contracting into a dense black hole of concentrated bigotry out of which erupted the candidacy and subsequent nomination of Trump.

Now, this is most definitely not to insult or tar regular conservatives with Trumpism.  This is to point out that the Republican Party left such regular conservatives behind once it went on its crusade to regulate people's beliefs, bedrooms and vaginas.  So focused was the party on owning the social conservatives, that it lost its way on fiscal prudence and small government such that the core of the party - who turns out to vote in primaries - was concentrated in this constituency of (mostly) old, white men who feel impotent in the face of the broadening acceptance of social change.  Basically, the Republican Party is now the town council from Footloose, with little chance of any heartwarming redemption at the end.

The rise of the Libertarian Party - if it can tamp down the crazy a tad - signals (to me) an end to the Republican Party as we know it.  The GOP will either crush itself under the weight of its own social agenda, or it will slough off this narrow focus and return to being the party of small government and fiscal prudence (by which I mean actual fiscal prudence, not paying lip service to prudence while exploding the deficit a la Reagan, Bush and Bush).

I really hope that Gary Johnson makes it on to the debate stage: (1) because ideas deserve to be aired and some of his are commendable; and (2) the nation needs to see that the Libertarian agenda is rich in craziness such that it's still not a viable alternative.

[Limey]

You reap what you sow.  I do not feel bad for any political party right now.  This country is a mess and I blame Senators and Representatives being too busy campaigning for their next job instead of doing the job they were elected to do.

One reason I would vote for Libertarian Johnson is because he is for term limits.  That alone may garner my vote.

Gerrymandering is the root cause of partisan gridlock in Congress.  Term limits are important, but having independent panels draw district lines will eliminate the endless crabbing to the outer extremes that we see in our elected officials.  When you fear no threat from the other side, your only threat is from your own flank.

[jbm]

They should go to open primaries where all candidates are thrown together in a pool where everyone can vote.  That would tamp down the psychos.  It might get someone like me interested in statewide elections again.

I know they do this now in California, but don't know how effective its been.  Although I thought they had reduced some of their gridlock.

[moriartp]

Gerrymandering is the root cause of partisan gridlock in Congress.  Term limits are important, but having independent panels draw district lines will eliminate the endless crabbing to the outer extremes that we see in our elected officials.  When you fear no threat from the other side, your only threat is from your own flank.

Yes, this is a crucial point. GOP control of state legislatures has resulted in an incredibly red-skewed congressional map. Dems need roughly a +7pt advantage in national popular vote total to even put the House back into play. It's absurd.

Democrats are finally putting together an organized effort against GOP gerrymandering, thank goodness. I just hope their success leads to fair districts, not Blue-rigged districts. Independent redistricting panels seem to be the way to go here. SCOTUS upholding the Arizona system was a huge win for that approach.

[Limey]

What's truly amazing is the speed at which the shit flies around the Trump campaign.  Just today:

• A sitting Republican congressman has endorsed Clinton for the Presidency;
• Trump's campaign was out-raised by Clinton's in July to the tune of 3-to-1
• A Gold Star mother was booed at a Pence rally for asking about Trump's disrespectful comments to the Kahn's
• Trump blundered into a spat about sexual harassment in the workplace, saying it was the duty of the victim to find a better place to work (son Eric later followed him down that same rabbit hole only to get owned by Fox' Megan Kelly)
• 12 hours and counting since Trump appeared to endorse Paul Ryan's primary opponent, without any sign of a walk-back
• Trump told Fox News' Stuart Varney that he'll spend twice as much as Clinton on repairing the country's infrastructure.  When asked where he'll get the money, he said "a fund".  When asked where the money in the fund would come from, he said "people"

I really don't think he's going to make it to November.  He'll flame out and quit, most likely some time after the first debate when he withdraws from the remaining two and gets hammered for it.  When Stuart Varney can explode your logic in about 3 seconds, you're taking an overripe banana to a gun fight going up against Clinton in a debate.

[moriartp]

They should go to open primaries where all candidates are thrown together in a pool where everyone can vote.  That would tamp down the psychos.  It might get someone like me interested in statewide elections again.

I know they do this now in California, but don't know how effective its been.  Although I thought they had reduced some of their gridlock.

Open primaries with a top-two general election have their own flaws. In a state like CA (typically dominated by a single party), it leads to low turnout among opposition voters. Ranked-choice voting is a better system. I think there's a ballot measure this year in Maine to adopt some form of ranked-choice system—it'll be interesting to see what happens there.

[BudGirl]

What's truly amazing is the speed at which the shit flies around the Trump campaign.  Just today:

• A sitting Republican congressman has endorsed Clinton for the Presidency;
• Trump's campaign was out-raised by Clinton's in July to the tune of 3-to-1
• A Gold Star mother was booed at a Pence rally for asking about Trump's disrespectful comments to the Kahn's
• Trump blundered into a spat about sexual harassment in the workplace, saying it was the duty of the victim to find a better place to work (son Eric later followed him down that same rabbit hole only to get owned by Fox' Megan Kelly)
• 12 hours and counting since Trump appeared to endorse Paul Ryan's primary opponent, without any sign of a walk-back
• Trump told Fox News' Stuart Varney that he'll spend twice as much as Clinton on repairing the country's infrastructure.  When asked where he'll get the money, he said "a fund".  When asked where the money in the fund would come from, he said "people"

I really don't think he's going to make it to November.  He'll flame out and quit, most likely some time after the first debate when he withdraws from the remaining two and gets hammered for it.  When Stuart Varney can explode your logic in about 3 seconds, you're taking an overripe banana to a gun fight going up against Clinton in a debate.

That does not necessarily matter.  There are a lot of people that vote straight-ticket.

[Waldo]

That does not necessarily matter.  There are a lot of people that vote straight-ticket.

Yep.  Trump will get at least 40% of the popular vote, maybe even 45%.  If you are expecting anything less then you are giving the straight-ticket Republicans too much credit.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Straight-ticket is no longer an option here in N.C. I wonder how many other states have gone that route. I'd thought getting rid of it was an A.L.E.C. initiative in order to cripple low-information voters on the left, but if Texas hasn't gone that way yet, maybe not.

[Limey]

Trump just kicked a screaming baby out of his rally; proving that his irony meter is completely broken.

[MusicMan]

Trump just kicked a screaming baby out of his rally; proving that his irony meter is completely broken.

Look, he was screaming, he was inconsolable, he had pissed himself... And there was a baby taking attention from him.


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[Navin R Johnson]

***BREAKING****
Baby has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood
-Drudge Report

[Fredia]

this is less like an election and more like a bad acid trip from the 70s

[Bench]

***BREAKING****
Baby has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood
-Drudge Report

That baby was rigged! "It" had no right to viciously attack Trump like that!

[Navin R Johnson]

Probably had bigger hands too.

[HudsonHawk]

Agreed about the culture that was cultivated, but only 30-40% of GOP voters actually chose Trump.  In a less-crowded primary, he's done before Super Tuesday.

I don't think you can say that.  Some of those who voted for Bush or Rubio or Carson or Christie or whomever would have voted for Trump had it been say just him and Cruz.  Trump pretty much crushed the competition. 

[austro]

Straight-ticket is no longer an option here in N.C.

I thought that just got overturned.

[HudsonHawk]

They should go to open primaries where all candidates are thrown together in a pool where everyone can vote.  That would tamp down the psychos.  It might get someone like me interested in statewide elections again.

I know they do this now in California, but don't know how effective its been.  Although I thought they had reduced some of their gridlock.

I think people fundamentally misunderstand what a primary actually is.  It's for each party to decide who they're going to put forth in the election, it's not the election itself.  Each party should make their own rules about who they nominate.  They don't even have to have a primary if they don't want to. 

[HudsonHawk]

That does not necessarily matter.  There are a lot of people that vote straight-ticket.

It's not just straight ticket.  It's that people are going to vote for Trump no matter what.  And I mean that literally.  No matter what happens, no matter what he says, no matter what he does, they are going to vote for Trump.  He can be dead, and they're going to vote for him. 

[homer]

It's not just straight ticket.  It's that people are going to vote for Trump no matter what.  And I mean that literally.  No matter what happens, no matter what he says, no matter what he does, they are going to vote for Trump.  He can be dead, and they're going to vote for him. 

This is not unique to Trump.

[homer]

Trump just kicked a screaming baby out of his rally; proving that his irony meter is completely broken.

Either your sense of humor is much more subtle than Mr. Jaffy, or you are also a moron.

[HudsonHawk]

This is not unique to Trump.

Oh, certainly not.  It just seems to be more widespread among Trumers. 

[HudsonHawk]

Trump just kicked a screaming baby out of his rally; proving that his irony meter is completely broken.

At least he got his Purple Heart.  The "easy" way. 

[MusicMan]

At least he got his Purple Heart.  The "easy" way.

It's the first heart he's ever had.


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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Oh, certainly not.  It just seems to be more widespread among Trumers.

Yellow Dog Democrat is a myth?

[jbm]

I think people fundamentally misunderstand what a primary actually is.  It's for each party to decide who they're going to put forth in the election, it's not the election itself.  Each party should make their own rules about who they nominate.  They don't even have to have a primary if they don't want to.

I'm not talking about the normal primary where party candidates fight it out to determine who will face the other party candidate in the general.  It's a primary where all candidates, repub or dem or someone else, are in the pool and every eligible voter can vote. The top two vote getters face off in the general. 

It discourages candidates from appealing to the fringe as other party voters will have a say.  In Texas, a statewide election will likely have two republican finalists, but one, or both, will at least have an incentive to try to represent and appeal to me.  I don't see unapologetic pricks, think Dan Patrick, winning as often in this system

[HudsonHawk]

I'm not talking about the normal primary where party candidates fight it out to determine who will face the other party candidate in the general.  It's a primary where all candidates, repub or dem or someone else, are in the pool and every eligible voter can vote. The top two vote getters face off in the general. 

Right.  That's exactly what a primary is *not* supposed to be.  It completely defeats the purpose of a primary in the first place. 

It discourages candidates from appealing to the fringe as other party voters will have a say.  In Texas, a statewide election will likely have two republican finalists, but one, or both, will at least have an incentive to try to represent and appeal to me.  I don't see unapologetic pricks, think Dan Patrick, winning as often in this system

If a party wants to throw up a fringe candidate, it's their right.  It's their club, they can nominate whomever they want.  The problem is not that parties are allowed to nominate who they want, it's that voters seem to think that's their only choices.  There will likely be 10 or more Presidential candidates on the ballot.  It's not a choice between Trump or Hillary. 

[jbm]

Right.  That's exactly what a primary is *not* supposed to be.  It completely defeats the purpose of a primary in the first place. 

If you say so

[HudsonHawk]

If you say so

I'm not the one who created the idea of a political party.  I get that you don't like it. 

[BudGirl]

It's not just straight ticket.  It's that people are going to vote for Trump no matter what.  And I mean that literally.  No matter what happens, no matter what he says, no matter what he does, they are going to vote for Trump.  He can be dead, and they're going to vote for him. 

I know that.  Otherwise, he wouldn't be in the position he is in.

I have two friends who are very loyal to the Republican party.  One is going to write-in Ted Cruz, the other is going to "pull the lever" so she doesn't have to technically vote for Trump.  So, my point was that there are Republicans that don't like him but will vote the party regardless.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I thought that just got overturned.

The law that got overturned (which was said to be the most far-reaching attempt to combat "rampant fraud" (NCGOP) in the nation) restricted early voting, eliminated pre-registration so many days before the vote as well as same-day registration, and required whatever photo ID black people were least likely to have. The Fourth Circuit court said it discriminated against African Americans with "almost surgical precision". But I don't think it included the abolition of the straight-ticket option. Pretty sure the General Assembly here got rid of that prior to the vandalizing of the Voting Rights Act that enabled them to go all the way.

[MusicMan]

I think it was Michigan's ban on straight ticket that got overturned.


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[MusicMan]

the other is going to "pull the lever" so she doesn't have to technically vote for Trump.

I don't understand what that means.


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[Bench]

I don't understand what that means.


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Evidently, neither does the voter.

[Limey]

Probably had bigger hands too.

SFN

[Limey]

Either your sense of humor is much more subtle than Mr. Jaffy, or you are also a moron.

My post was meant to be entirely humourous.  All politicians are fair game and, in fact, it's a civic duty to let the air out of them.  Like when Bill Maher did an US Weekly-style "25 Things You Don't Know About Hillary Clinton".   (He has done all the major candidates - my favorite being about Bernie Sanders..."I comb my hair with a balloon").

[HudsonHawk]

I don't understand what that means.


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Hmmm..."pulling the lever" for Trump...where's Alkie when you need him?

[homer]

My post was meant to be entirely humourous.  All politicians are fair game and, in fact, it's a civic duty to let the air out of them.  Like when Bill Maher did an US Weekly-style "25 Things You Don't Know About Hillary Clinton".   (He has done all the major candidates - my favorite being about Bernie Sanders..."I comb my hair with a balloon").

Sure. They are all asshats that deserve to be taken down a notch. Of all the things to take a jab at, Trump's distraction by a crying baby and subsequent effort to make a joke in response to the mother's apparent embarrassment seems to be done with blind malice. Which I expect from a partisan shill like Bradd Jaffy.

[Limey]

Sure. They are all asshats that deserve to be taken down a notch. Of all the things to take a jab at, Trump's distraction by a crying baby and subsequent effort to make a joke in response to the mother's apparent embarrassment seems to be done with blind malice. Which I expect from a partisan shill like Bradd Jaffy.

Not sure why you read that into what I posted; I thought I was being pretty clear that I was taking the piss out of Trump for himself being a screaming baby.  I had never heard of Bradd Jaffy until you mentioned him.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Sure. They are all asshats that deserve to be taken down a notch.

This attitude that there is no dignity in public service, or that there are no good people who engage in it, is unhelpful. IMO, it's this cynicism--more than the racist dogwhistling--that is the most corrosive legacy of the Republican party since Reagan, and the prime motivation behind the Trumpistas. They want to send an arsonist to D.C. because they've been told for thirty years that there's nothing there worth keeping.

[Jacksonian]

This attitude that there is no dignity in public service, or that there are no good people who engage in it, is unhelpful. IMO, it's this cynicism--more than the racist dogwhistling--that is the most corrosive legacy of the Republican party since Reagan, and the prime motivation behind the Trumpistas. They want to send an arsonist to D.C. because they've been told for thirty years that there's nothing there worth keeping.

I'm not a Republican apologist but this is so remarkably one sided it's laughable.  The hate for elected officials isn't born from Republicans.  It comes from the collective give and take from both parties and well as media members on both sides for the last 25 - 30 years.  I'm old enough to remember the entire Reagan presidency as well as the end of Carter's.  This broad level of disgust as I see it started with Robert Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court.  He wasn't a great candidate as I recall and perhaps should never have been put forward, but Democrats crucified him in ways publicly that hadn't been done.  At the very next opportunity Republican's retaliated and so the extreme partisanship has deepened since then.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I'm not a Republican apologist but this is so remarkably one sided it's laughable.  The hate for elected officials isn't born from Republicans.  It comes from the collective give and take from both parties and well as media members on both sides for the last 25 - 30 years.  I'm old enough to remember the entire Reagan presidency as well as the end of Carter's.  This broad level of disgust as I see it started with Robert Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court.  He wasn't a great candidate as I recall and perhaps should never have been put forward, but Democrats crucified him in ways publicly that hadn't been done.  At the very next opportunity Republican's retaliated and so the extreme partisanship has deepened since then.

You're talking about partisanship, I'm talking about a consistent campaign to decry government as useful. Do you think it's false that one party more than the other has invested its resources in discrediting the utility of government?

[Jacksonian]

You're talking about partisanship, I'm talking about a consistent campaign to decry government as useful. Do you think it's false that one party more than the other has invested its resources in discrediting the utility of government?

I think you're seeing it from 1 point of view.  I believe conservatives have decried government that they see as expansive and liberal.  I also believe liberals decry forms of government or government workings that don't do what they believe should be done or do less than what should be done.  Conservatives aren't anarchists just as liberals aren't communists.  Both see the utility of government, but both see the utility of government differently.  What's happened is that our government as moved in the liberal direction over the past 25 years; conservatives know it and complain.  Even when Republicans in Texas are behaving themselves liberals here still complain about how the government is run because it isn't doing what they believe should be done.

Trump is tapping into a lot of thoughtless anger but don't pretend it's just Republicans who are listening.  I've met a lot of Democrats who will vote for him.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

This excellent piece by the Republican commentator Peter Wehner speaks to what I'm talking about.

[Limey]

This attitude that there is no dignity in public service, or that there are no good people who engage in it, is unhelpful. IMO, it's this cynicism--more than the racist dogwhistling--that is the most corrosive legacy of the Republican party since Reagan, and the prime motivation behind the Trumpistas. They want to send an arsonist to D.C. because they've been told for thirty years that there's nothing there worth keeping.

I agree on your thoughts that selling the premise that the government is the problem is one of the reasons that the Republican Party operates in an almost post-policy environment.  Trump certainly does.  But as to mocking the candidates...even Kings had their court jesters.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Couldn't agree more. It's the reflexive "they're all asshats" I was responding to.

[Jacksonian]

This excellent piece by the Republican commentator Peter Wehner speaks to what I'm talking about.

I get it.  But I think both party's are crap.

[jbm]

This excellent piece by the Republican commentator Peter Wehner speaks to what I'm talking about.

I get real tired of people who fail to take responsibility for either their action, or lack of action.  If this guy had started his article with a long list of republican leaders who were on record telling their base, that "No, Barack Hussein Obama is not a non-citizen, muslim, nor born in Kenya," then his piece would have some credibility.  The only one that I can recall doing so was John McCain. 

In short, you don't need to decry some strawman that all republicans are bigots, you need to come clean on why the large cohort of decent republicans sat idly by while this shit was cultivated.

[homer]

Couldn't agree more. It's the reflexive "they're all asshats" I was responding to.

Ah, well. That was my sarcastic way of acknowledging Limey's disingenuous premise. I read this site daily, and have for more than 10 years, and have never found Limey or any of the rest of the crew 'taking the piss' out of anyone on the left with such vitriol as they do for those on the right.

There are public servants far and near that deserve some amount of respect- others can be tolerated and the vast majority can only be despised.

I also read Mr. Wehner's piece. He dismisses the concerns of those that have given rise to Trump as borne from "racism, nativism, and misogyny" in an article where he laments the general "distaste for the practice of politics." I think these two ideas are directly related but I'm not sure he does.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I am an anarchist. I also vote. Both parties have things I like and things I detest. It is stupid to think one of two is absolutely best for everyone. People want different things from life and from their government. Who fucks with shit is impertant to me.

[MusicMan]

"Sphinx 2016: Don't fuck with my shit"


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[Bench]

I've met a lot of Democrats who will vote for him.

That's fascinating.  Anecdotally, I know many life-long Republicans/conservatives that until this year never dreamed of voting for a Democrat in a national race, much less Hillary, who will be voting for her.  I have yet to meet anyone from the reverse - a life-long Democrat/liberal that will vote for Trump.  What are the motivations of the Democrats you've met that support Trump?

[Jacksonian]

That's fascinating.  Anecdotally, I know many life-long Republicans/conservatives that until this year never dreamed of voting for a Democrat in a national race, much less Hillary, who will be voting for her.  I have yet to meet anyone from the reverse - a life-long Democrat/liberal that will vote for Trump.  What are the motivations of the Democrats you've met that support Trump?

They don't consider themselves liberal.  They consider themselves working-class Democrats.  They believe only Democrats are for the working person.  They don't believe Hillary is for the working person.  They think she's a white-collar criminal who'd be in jail right now but for her name and race.  But they also believe that there are too many corrupt federal elected officials in Washington for the working person to have his or her voice heard.  They see Hillary as a single embodiment of all that is wrong there.  A very similar conviction to what they held about Bush 2.  They want Trump because they see him as different.  A say whatever I want non-pc non-bs guy.  They also don't believe their lives will be any worse with Trump there rather than Hillary.

[Limey]

I really don't think he's going to make it to November.  He'll flame out and quit, most likely some time after the first debate when he withdraws from the remaining two and gets hammered for it.  When Stuart Varney can explode your logic in about 3 seconds, you're taking an overripe banana to a gun fight going up against Clinton in a debate.

Apparently, I'm not the only one who thinks this is a real possibility.  ABC reports that the GOP is making contingency plans in case their candidate flakes.

[pots]

  What are the motivations of the Democrats you've met that support Trump?

That's simple.  Trump doesn't represent politics.  He doesn't represent the way things work today.  There is a ever increasing percentage of the population who do not like the way things work today. Both major parties have this unrest as well as a large portion of the independents.   Every single person would like for it to be somebody other than Trump leading the charge. But every non-politician gets run out the door faster than The Donald will tweet about it. 

Hillary represents every thing that is wrong with politics today.  The vast, vast majority of the Clinton family wealth and power came from nothing.  It came from playing the game and playing it better than everyone else.  They've been paid 100s of millions to quietly represent the people with the billions. 

It's a sad race.  The buffoon with the power to change everything versus a self serving puppet to the elites.

[Limey]

Ah, well. That was my sarcastic way of acknowledging Limey's disingenuous premise. I read this site daily, and have for more than 10 years, and have never found Limey or any of the rest of the crew 'taking the piss' out of anyone on the left with such vitriol as they do for those on the right.

To be fair (to me and the rest of the crew), the characters on the left have been far less entertaining than characters on the right over the entirety of that 10 years.  Case in point: the Democratic nominee panel this year was drool-inducingly dull, apart from Bernie.  But even Bernie wasn't funny (humourous), even though SNL had a good go at lampooning him with the excellent Larry David impersonation.  The rest? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Meanwhile, the stage on the right was chock full o' nuts.  Cruz ate a booger live on national TV ferchissakes!  "Little" Marco calling out Donald's "little Donald" for being too little.  Ben Carson's unique brand of somnambulent weirdness.  And capping it all, was the inexorable march to the nomination of the most clownish of the lot.

The last go around was Obama vs. Romney, who stepped on his dick harder and more often than the Texans coaching staff.  "Corporations are people, my friend"; "47%" and his UK insult tour that spawned the hashtag "Romneyshambles" (modeled on a rant by a British TV character where something was so completely fucked up he called it an "Omnishambles").  Only Joe Biden offers any hint of an opportunity for humour - and I have enjoyed that as much as anyone (the Onion regularly sends him up as being - essentially - Cousin Eddie at the White House.

Before that it was Obama vs. McCain and...ummm...who did he pick to run with again?

Before that we're back to Bush vs. Kerry; the latter being about as humourless an individual as possible - although I think I did spit out my coffee when he posed for a photo op dressed as a giant sperm.

Honestly.  Clinton's inevitability as the nominee, and the policy-heavy, respectability of the discourse at the Democratic debates meant that there was very little comedy (or any real joy) to be taken from them.  On the other side Trump accused one of the moderators of being tough on him because she was on her period.  There really is no contest when it comes to lampoonability here.

[moriartp]

They want Trump because they see him as different.

Well, he certainly is different. First nominee in history with an IQ lower than his shoe size.

[austro]

They also don't believe their lives will be any worse with Trump there rather than Hillary.

They are mistaken. Things will definitely be worse if he gets us in a trade war with China or a shooting war (even by proxy) with Russia. Not to mention how his delicate touch will play in the South China Sea. Although I guess we could always drop a nuke.

[homer]

To be fair (to me and the rest of the crew), the characters on the left have been far less entertaining than characters on the right over the entirety of that 10 years.

I can absolutely agree that I've never read anything humorous about the characters on the left on The Huffington Post.

[HudsonHawk]

I can absolutely agree that I've never read anything humorous about the characters on the left on The Huffington Post.

And the only thing humorous about Breitbart or the Daily Caller is their blatant disregard for facts and reality. 

The GOP keeps insisting that things like the dick size discussion on stage at the debates was all fabricated by the evil "mainstream" media who's being funded by Muslim extremists in an attempt to sap and impurify all our precious bodily fluids.  Blaming the media is the only tool in their toolbox.  When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

It's not the only tool in the toolbox. They relentlessly blame the government, too.

The M.O. for the GOP has, for some time now, been to discredit gov't and discredit the watchdog press. This has dovetailed nicely with their not-well-concealed efforts to deepen and stabilize a status quo that enriches their donors.

[WVastro]

And the only thing humorous about Breitbart or the Daily Caller is their blatant disregard for facts and reality. 

The GOP keeps insisting that things like the dick size discussion on stage at the debates was all fabricated by the evil "mainstream" media who's being funded by Muslim extremists in an attempt to sap and impurify all our precious bodily fluids.  Blaming the media is the only tool in their toolbox.  When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

This is so well stated, couldn't agree more. We are constantly bombarded by false equivilancies and too often ruled by them. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

If one spends a little time watching ABC, NBC, CBS, or MSNBC, it becomes undeniably obvious that those networks favor a different candidate and political party than FOX News. All media is biased.

[moriartp]

If one spends a little time watching ABC, NBC, CBS, or MSNBC, it becomes undeniably obvious that those networks favor a different candidate and political party than FOX News. All media is biased.

Journalists shouldn't be afraid to take a position when the facts are biased towards one side. "Balance" is only a worthy goal in a reasonable debate.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Journalists shouldn't be afraid to take a position when the facts are biased towards one side. "Balance" is only a worthy goal in a reasonable debate.

Bias is a predisposition and facts are cherry picked to back up said bias. Balance is a catch phrase.

[Navin R Johnson]

Nationally Trump is polling at like 7% of democrats.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Great piece on fivethirtyeight about why and how we're fucked--especially interesting to we anti-gerrymandering fanatics. The self-sorting business really is quite the problem. More ideologically competitive districts would still have to look just as batty. 

[MusicMan]

An actual sentence from a Trump press release today:

 "Donald Trump lives, works, eats and employs people of all races and religions."


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[MusicMan]

Also, to show the "bias" in polling:

NBC and CNN's latest polls show Trump at 1% among African-Americans.

Fox News poll has him at... 2%.

So much for that bias.


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[HudsonHawk]

An actual sentence from a Trump press release today:

 "Donald Trump lives, works, eats and employs people of all races and religions."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When Donald Trump "goes out for Chinese", he goes out for Chinese. 

[Limey]

It's not the only tool in the toolbox. They relentlessly blame the government, too.

The M.O. for the GOP has, for some time now, been to discredit gov't and discredit the watchdog press. This has dovetailed nicely with their not-well-concealed efforts to deepen and stabilize a status quo that enriches their donors.

To be fair to the GOP, their opinion is based in fact.  When you can't even pass a bill through the House you control with a substantial majority and a simple majority is all that's required, government is the problem...when the GOP is in charge.

[Jacksonian]

To be fair to the GOP, their opinion is based in fact.  When you can't even pass a bill through the House you control with a substantial majority and a simple majority is all that's required, government is the problem...when the GOP is in charge.

Good grief.  The GOP is a nightmare but how easily we forget 2010.

[Mr. Happy]

Good grief.  The GOP is a nightmare but how easily we forget 2010.

You have to pass the bill to get to know what's in it. Nancy Pelosi

[Knoxbanedoodle]

If Trump drops out of the race, what does that look like? What happens?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

If Trump drops out of the race, what does that look like? What happens?

Mass hysteria.  Cats and dogs living together.

[Jacksonian]

You have to pass the bill to get to know what's in it. Nancy Pelosi

That's part of it.  One of President Obama's biggest messages was transparency, especially after Iraq.  When in just 2 years you can completely de-energize your base and energize your enemies to the point that you lose not only a filibuster proof House but the House itself you've made government a problem.

One of my friends is a very liberal Political Science professor.  It pains him to admit that the People prefer government, by way of their voting, to be a split federal government.  When one party rules Washington the People tend to correct it very quickly.

[Jacksonian]

If Trump drops out of the race, what does that look like? What happens?

A far less entertaining political season.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

If Trump drops out of the race, what does that look like? What happens?

Found the answer to my own question. A national RNC committee would select a replacement candidate. Surveys of Politico's anonymous Republican insider caucus have 70% hoping he will, and 58% saying he won't.

[Limey]

You have to pass the bill to get to know what's in it. Nancy Pelosi

That's not at all what she meant and you know it.  In context, it's perfectly clear.

[jbm]

If Trump drops out of the race, what does that look like? What happens?

I had read something yesterday where they said he needed to do it before early September to get another republican on all the ballots.  There is a process for the party to name a replacement which doesn't include all of the delegates.  The speculation was that Cruz would be out and it would be either Ryan or Kasich.  Even if they got a non-crazy on the ballot, the crazies in the party would revolt, IMO.  So short answer to your question is that "bad shit happens for the republicans, just different bad shit."

[Limey]

Found the answer to my own question. A national RNC committee would select a replacement candidate. Surveys of Politico's anonymous Republican insider caucus have 70% hoping he will, and 58% saying he won't.

The trick is timing.  If he drops out before the end of August, the GOP will still be able to replace him on the ballots in enough States to still get to 270.  After that, they start getting time-barred and Trump's name will still be on the ballot with the replacement nominee having to be a write-in vote.

[jbm]

That's not at all what she meant and you know it.  In context, it's perfectly clear.

A good example of how the lazy fucking press is as culpable as lazy fucking citizens.

[Limey]

Found the answer to my own question. A national RNC committee would select a replacement candidate. Surveys of Politico's anonymous Republican insider caucus have 70% hoping he will, and 58% saying he won't.

My understanding is that, if he won't stand down they can't force him out and, even if they could, the fall out and litigation would be loud, expensive and catastrophically damaging.

So, it can't be long before Senate, House and State Republicans will have to start running against Trump in order to protect their existing positions.  The most obvious argument being that they will be the backstop against President Clinton.

It's notable that Trump is making a rally stop in Green Bay, WI today, yet none of the GOP Chairman Reince Priebus (from Wisconsin), Speaker Ryan (Rep. from Wisconsin), Gov. Walker (of Wisconsin) or Sen. Johnson (embattled incumbent for Wisconsin) will be anywhere near Trump.  More overt repudiation can't be too far away at this point.

However, I stand by my prediction that Trump will quit after the first debate, which doesn't happen until the end of September.  If that turns out to be true, the GOP will be in, to quote PFC Bill Hudson, "some real pretty shit now, man!"

[Limey]

A good example of how the lazy fucking press is as culpable as lazy fucking citizens.

To be fair to citizens, most are busy doing their own jobs so they don't have time to make sure that the press is doing its, which is to make sure that politicians are doing theirs.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

There's likely to be a significant move away from him on the part of Republican congressmen once they've survived their primaries. If and when that happens, it's going to be interesting to see how Trump responds. Just more validation that the establishment is against them? Definitely. But if "the fix" is in, I would think it'd be easier for him to justify walking away.

[BudGirl]

However, I stand by my prediction that Trump will quit after the first debate, which doesn't happen until the end of September.  If that turns out to be true, the GOP will be in, to quote PFC Bill Hudson, "some real pretty shit now, man!"

I just don't see him quitting.  Crazy just keeps going.  But, you would be right.

[Bench]

I just don't see him quitting.  Crazy just keeps going.  But, you would be right.

I'm with you.  He's way too much of a narcissist.  First he would have to actually realize that he's going to lose, which I don't think he will until around 10:00pm central time on November 8th when he gives a speech about how the election was rigged.

[jbm]

I'm with you.  He's way too much of a narcissist.

I read something in Politico this morning where the majority of folks in the article held the same view.   Seems to me, it might be those same personality traits that would allow him to quit.  If you quit before you lose, you can claim you aren't a loser.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I read something in Politico this morning where the majority of folks in the article held the same view.   Seems to me, it might be those same personality traits that would allow him to quit.  If you quit before you lose, you can claim you aren't a loser.

That's what I keep coming back to.

[BudGirl]

I read something in Politico this morning where the majority of folks in the article held the same view.   Seems to me, it might be those same personality traits that would allow him to quit.  If you quit before you lose, you can claim you aren't a loser.

I get that and almost agree; but he's been touting how he "alone" can fix everything that is wrong with this country.  I don't see how he can get himself out of that mindset. 

[Limey]

I read something in Politico this morning where the majority of folks in the article held the same view.   Seems to me, it might be those same personality traits that would allow him to quit.  If you quit before you lose, you can claim you aren't a loser.

This is my thinking also; and the prebuttal of a rigged election falls into that strategy.  Ditto the whining about the debates; there was no letter from the NFL and the dates were set by an independent panel a year ago.  Add to this the constant accusations of bias in the press.

It's all groundwork leading up to him quitting in order to avoid what is shaping up to be an arse-kicking for the ages at the polls in November.

[Bench]

there was no letter from the NFL and the dates were set by an independent panel a year ago. 

It is amazing that such an outright lie and immediate debunking falls voicelessly into the pile of insanity that is the Trump campaign.  Anyone else and that claim would have been a scandal that plagued the memory of the candidacy for decades.  Here it's just one more drop in the bucket.  Frankly, I had forgotten about it.

[Fredia]

Mass hysteria.  Cats and dogs living together
dont you just love the 12 Monkeys

[Limey]

I get that and almost agree; but he's been touting how he "alone" can fix everything that is wrong with this country.  I don't see how he can get himself out of that mindset.

You're assuming that he'd quit gracefully and go quietly into the good night.  He won't.  Quote the opposite, in fact.  Quitting allows him to maintain his fantasy and to keep banging on about how the post-apocalyptic hellscape we currently inhabit will continue because Crooked Hillary and the lying media conspired to rig the elections to keep him out of the White House.

[Bench]

You're assuming that he'd quit gracefully and go quietly into the good night.  He won't.  Quote the opposite, in fact.  Quitting allows him to maintain his fantasy and to keep banging on about how the post-apocalyptic hellscape we currently inhabit will continue because Crooked Hillary and the lying media conspired to rig the elections to keep him out of the White House.

You're assume that he isn't convinced he's going to win and that he's rational enough to recognize the writing on the wall.  I'm skeptical of that assumption. 

[Limey]

It is amazing that such an outright lie and immediate debunking falls voicelessly into the pile of insanity that is the Trump campaign.  Anyone else and that claim would have been a scandal that plagued the memory of the candidacy for decades.  Here it's just one more drop in the bucket.  Frankly, I had forgotten about it.

He moves effortlessly from each easily debunked lie to the next so quickly that it's impossible for anyone to keep up.  That one got run over by the rigged elections, which got run over by the Iran ransom, which got run over by Melania's immigration status, all of which were fighting for air with the ongoing feud with the Khan family.

Bizarrely, it actually works in his favour.  Any one of the many, many controversies that have hit his campaign would likely scupper another candidate but, for Trump, there's safety in numbers.  I have seen it likened to a nail: step on one and it hurts like fuck; lay down on 1,000 and you're completely fine.

How it works in reality is that, before anyone has time to debunk Trump's baseless denial / defense of his most recent episode, he's created a new one.  So what remains in the minds of supporters and sympathisers is said baseless denial / defense.  Case in point, you forgetting the blatant lie about the NFL letter.

[Limey]

You're assume that he isn't convinced he's going to win and that he's rational enough to recognize the writing on the wall.  I'm skeptical of that assumption.

I don't think he ever wanted the nomination; he wanted the publicity surrounding a run and never expected to get this far.  Now he's here, he is looking for a way out.  One that gives him plausible whineability.  Absent that escape route (which appears to be the case), he needs grounds to quit without being a quitter - at least in his own mind.

[Jacksonian]

It is amazing that such an outright lie and immediate debunking falls voicelessly into the pile of insanity that is the Trump campaign.  Anyone else and that claim would have been a scandal that plagued the memory of the candidacy for decades.  Here it's just one more drop in the bucket.  Frankly, I had forgotten about it.

Dunno if it's fatigue but Hillary's isn't dogging her much either.

[BudGirl]

Bizarrely, it actually works in his favour.  Any one of the many, many controversies that have hit his campaign would likely scupper another candidate but, for Trump, there's safety in numbers.  I have seen it likened to a nail: step on one and it hurts like fuck; lay down on 1,000 and you're completely fine.

John Oliver?

[Limey]

John Oliver?

Yep!

[moriartp]

That's not at all what she meant and you know it.  In context, it's perfectly clear.

I'm glad you posted this. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the BS criticism of Pelosi over this statement. People are depressingly adept at ignoring evidence they don't like.

[Limey]

I'm glad you posted this. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the BS criticism of Pelosi over this statement. People are depressingly adept at ignoring evidence they don't like.

The most obvious thing is the audience.  It's quoted as if she was saying this on the floor of the House when, in fact, she was talking to a national association of county legislators.  Even if you rip that single phrase from the rest of the speech, it still retains the intended meaning when you know to whom it was spoken.

[Mr. Happy]

That's not at all what she meant and you know it.  In context, it's perfectly clear.

It's exactly what she did, which telegraphed her intention that the bill be passed without having been read, which it was

[das]

If one spends a little time watching ABC, NBC, CBS, or MSNBC, it becomes undeniably obvious that those networks favor a different candidate and political party than FOX News. All media is biased.

That's why I watch the BBC.

[Bench]

He moves effortlessly from each easily debunked lie to the next so quickly that it's impossible for anyone to keep up.  That one got run over by the rigged elections, which got run over by the Iran ransom, which got run over by Melania's immigration status, all of which were fighting for air with the ongoing feud with the Khan family.

Bizarrely, it actually works in his favour.  Any one of the many, many controversies that have hit his campaign would likely scupper another candidate but, for Trump, there's safety in numbers.  I have seen it likened to a nail: step on one and it hurts like fuck; lay down on 1,000 and you're completely fine.

Three stooges syndrome

[Limey]

It's exactly what she did, which telegraphed her intention that the bill be passed without having been read, which it was

Well, ignoring your seemingly willful ignorance regarding the context and audience for Pelosi's statement, the claim that this was rushed through without anyone having the chance to read it is factually inaccurate and simply laughable.

The bill was introduced in the House on September 17, 2009 and that bill passed on October 8.   The Senate version was passed on December 24, 2009 and sent back to the House.  The House passed that bill on March 21, 2010.  That's a six month process.  Anyone in Congress who didn't read it was just too fucking lazy to do so.  It was debated and debated and debated - 788 amendments to the bill were filed in the Senate and 197 were passed.  The vast majority of the amendments filed and passed were from Republicans (721/67 filed, 161/36 passed).

If you want a bill that was passed in the dead of night, hours after the vote should have closed by rule (with the bill failing), using reconciliation and the the promise of campaign funds to get nays to switch to yays...look at Medicare Part D.  Oh, and this isn't a "both sides do it" thing; this is an ACA was passed within the rules of Congress and Medicare Part D fucking wasn't thing.

[MusicMan]

The best summary I've seen so far:

If the election is all about Hillary, Trump will win.
If the election is all about Trump, Hillary will win.
Both candidates want it to be all about Trump.

[Limey]

Well that didn't take long.

After rebooting his campaign over the weekend - endorsing Ryan, McCain and Ayotte, and giving a speech where he laid out Paul Ryan's his economic plan - Trump has since rolled out a membership gold card for campaign donors and, just today, called for the assassination of his opponent.

Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment.  By the way, and if she gets to pick — if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.  Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.

So, at what point does he get locked up for inciting insurrection?

[Bench]

Well that didn't take long.

After rebooting his campaign over the weekend - endorsing Ryan, McCain and Ayotte, and giving a speech where he laid out Paul Ryan's his economic plan - Trump has since rolled out a membership gold card for campaign donors and, just today, called for the assassination of his opponent.

So, at what point does he get locked up for inciting insurrection?

The guy is just completely irresponsible.  To the extent he ever had any policies beyond building an unfeasible wall, breaking trade agreements and treaties that he wouldn't have the authority to break, and taxing everyone 15%, this race has long left behind any rational discussion or comparison of policy proposals.  That 45% of the voters will mark his name down is just galling.

A British MP was murdered the week before the Brexit vote by a lunatic inspired by much less rancorous rhetoric.  Federal judges here receive death threats all the time.  That Trump could even - best case scenario - joke about this type of thing is disgusting. 

But hey, Hillary had a private email server when she shouldn't have so they're all the same, huh?

[Limey]

But hey, Hillary had a private email server when she shouldn't have so they're all the same, huh?

BENGHAZI!

FWIW, the smart money is on this race already being over.  As much as the media will want to keep ginning it up for ratings, that does appear to be the case.  Trump's "Path to 270™" is to hold the states Romney won, and add the swing states in the rust belt.  Well, not only is he losing the swing states - many quite badly - he's also in serious danger of losing some of the Romney states, including Georgia, Arizona and Utah.  Yes, fucking Utah!

Meanwhile, Clinton's 9-point lead in national polls, if it were to hold to the election, would return a landslide 2nd only to Reagan's stomping of Mondale (Obama beat Romney by 4-points nationally and that race wasn't close).  The stage is almost always set coming out of the conventions and doesn't change thereafter.  Clinton took the lead coming out of hers and has seen it increase since.  That has a tendency to set the narrative, so Trump will continue to lose support because he is losing support.  Donors and other Republicans will jump ship, further depressing Trump's poll numbers etc. etc. rinse repeat.

I think Bill Maher described it best when he said that the Republican Party has found itself handcuffed to a dead hooker.  He gets bonus points for saying this to, and getting a laugh in response from, Rick Santorum.

[Mr. Happy]

Just when I thought that Trump had said his most ridiculous thing, he outdoes himself. I'm praying that the third party candidates get past the 15% mark so that at least one of them is in the debates.

[MusicMan]

Trump's spokesperson on CNN said Trump should not be held responsible because he is "inarticulate at times" and not a professor in "grammar."

In other words, Trump says so many stupid things that it is unfair to single out one stupid thing he said.




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[chuck]

Trump's spokesperson on CNN said Trump should not be held responsible because he is "inarticulate at times" and not a professor in "grammar."

Wait. I thought he had the best words.

[austro]

Wait. I thought he had the best words.

Nobody said anything about stringing those words together into coherent sentences.

[chuck]

Nobody said anything about stringing those words together into coherent sentences.

But he KNOWS WORDS. Are you trying to turn me into a cynic?

[Navin R Johnson]

"The LAME STREAM media, who is in cahoots with Crooked Hillary, are blowing this out of proportion. It was a JOKE, a very VERY funny joke, of course liberals don't get it, because they have no sense of humor. SAD! " -Drumpf

[WVastro]

As thorough and complete the deconstruction of Sarah Palin was throughout the '08 campaign due to her utter lack of preparedness and knowledge, Trump will eclipse that 100 fold. Many people are shocked at this nomination but it was plain as could be eight years ago that the Republican Party had lost control.  Eight years ago it was just a VP nomination and easy to pass off... Now it's the whole damn party that has to be accounted for.

That whole "grass roots" Tea Party thing eight years ago was anything but "grass roots". In Ohio where I was at the time, the "tea party" had a rally maybe a month after I first heard of it  (if I'm generous) in Ohio where I was at the time. Somehow, they  had an extremely flashy semi truck style tour bus with a graphic emblazoned on its side. I'll be honest, I went out of a fair bit of excitement that maybe this was something real.  There was absolutely nothing "grass roots" about it. They had an incredible PA system with sound techs running around wearing all black.....  There was even a STAGE!!... I don't doubt that some pretty amazing people that I would get along with grandly were hoodwinked by it.

A few years later there was a "occupy" movement that gained a modest amount of momentum. I also checked that out. I met real people that were in truly terrible situations. Homeless. Recently unemployed and without prospects (please remember the attitude of the time post crash) (yes, we had an economic crash...).  This was far more "real", these people were some of the most passionate and motivated individuals I'd met.... And they were homeless and smelled bad.... This was derided in the MSM..... Who cares?!?! They are people with real concerns! You'd be surprised how easily you too could be in a dire financial situation. Your opinion still matters regardless. I spent quite a bit of time talking to people of the movement. Started giving money... Made new and unexpected friends. I walked in my first protest..... And "occupy" still didn't have a single branded tour bus with CNN style graphics on its side proclaiming its legitimacy.

False narratives.

The false narrative of "well, one party does it so we do too" hasn't applied for awhile now. If you disagree ask yourself one question:

"If _____ nominee of the ____ party (that you DISAGREE with) had said EVERY FUCKING THING Trump has said in the last few months (or more of you care to peruse old Howard Stern shows) would you really say:

Oh! She/he is just not being politically correct and is "telling it like is" (on quotes that pertain to deriding your religion or lack of it.)

Those Muslims shouldn't attack her/him, shame on that gold star family.

"Oh, he/she had no intention of threatening a political candidate. That was just him/her being  funny "haha" (apologies for the knuckleballhead reference.)


"_____ nationality of (the immigrant that he/she sees as undesirable) are rapists with strong legs from...."



Never mind... Fuck it. If I've learned one thing it's that most people are pretty much incapable of changing their mind. Until you get out of your comfort zone you'll just keep on with what has worked so far.

[Limey]

Just when I thought that Trump had said his most ridiculous thing, he outdoes himself. I'm praying that the third party candidates get past the 15% mark so that at least one of them is in the debates.

I would very much like to see Gary Johnson in the debates.

[JimR]

I would very much like to see Gary Johnson in the debates.

voting for a third party candidate elects Trump.

[MusicMan]

voting for a third party candidate elects Trump.

Actually, the polls show most of the Johnson votes are coming FROM Trump.

Voting for a third party might help to actually establish a third party and get the GOP's heads out of their asses.

[Limey]

That whole "grass roots" Tea Party thing eight years ago was anything but "grass roots". In Ohio where I was at the time, the "tea party" had a rally maybe a month after I first heard of it  (if I'm generous) in Ohio where I was at the time. Somehow, they  had an extremely flashy semi truck style tour bus with a graphic emblazoned on its side. I'll be honest, I went out of a fair bit of excitement that maybe this was something real.  There was absolutely nothing "grass roots" about it. They had an incredible PA system with sound techs running around wearing all black.....  There was even a STAGE!!... I don't doubt that some pretty amazing people that I would get along with grandly were hoodwinked by it.

A few years later there was a "occupy" movement that gained a modest amount of momentum. I also checked that out. I met real people that were in truly terrible situations. Homeless. Recently unemployed and without prospects (please remember the attitude of the time post crash) (yes, we had an economic crash...).  This was far more "real", these people were some of the most passionate and motivated individuals I'd met.... And they were homeless and smelled bad.... This was derided in the MSM..... Who cares?!?!

If you need a single image to distinguish the Tea Party from Occupy, it's that the Tea Party had the aforementioned stages and sound systems (all paid for by Rove's and the Kocks' PACs), whereas Occupy had to use a "human megaphone" because they were banned from using an actual megaphone.

The stoking of resentment that was the lifeblood of the Tea Party is what gave rise to Trump.  The Republican establishment took the anger and resentment of the (mostly white) working poor and recently unemployed, and turned it hard against Obamacare in an effort to block the law and make Obama a one-term President.  When that effort failed, they were left holding a bomb with the fuse burning down.

[Limey]

voting for a third party candidate elects Trump.

Never said I would vote for him, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hear what he has to say.  Also, if it's just Clinton and Trump, it's going to be a shitshow that can only worsen the already dire state of politics.

[JimR]

Actually, the polls show most of the Johnson votes are coming FROM Trump.

Voting for a third party might help to actually establish a third party and get the GOP's heads out of their asses.

Sorry. not this voter.

[jbm]

Never said I would vote for him, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hear what he has to say.  Also, if it's just Clinton and Trump, it's going to be a shitshow that can only worsen the already dire state of politics.

Sounds like there might not be a debate with Trump

[Limey]

Actually, the polls show most of the Johnson votes are coming FROM Trump.

Voting for a third party might help to actually establish a third party and get the GOP's heads out of their asses.

Given that Trump is quite possibly not going to show up, if I were the networks, I'd relax the rules and let the 4 candidates who can move the needle off the Blutarsky line into the debate (i.e. including Stein from the Green Party).

The concept of stifling ideas in order to protect a preferred candidate's chances is a very dangerous one.

[MusicMan]

Given that Trump is quite possibly not going to show up, if I were the networks, I'd relax the rules and let the 4 candidates who can move the needle off the Blutarsky line into the debate (i.e. including Stein from the Green Party).

The concept of stifling ideas in order to protect a preferred candidate's chances is a very dangerous one.

The networks don't run the debates. The Commission for Presidential Debates does. The CPD is run jointly by the DNC and RNC.

They won't allow a third party candidate unless they have to.


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[MusicMan]

Sorry. not this voter.

I can understand that.


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[Limey]

Sounds like there might not be a debate with Trump

Because he's going to drop below 15% in the polls?

Joking aside, he's losing nationally by double-digits in the last 4 straight nations polls.  In addition to Utah being in play, he has now put Kansas in play.  Yes, fucking Kansas!  Romney won it by 22 points in 2012; in the latest Survey USA poll, Trump leads Clinton by just five - 44 to 39.

Lastly on the polls, PPP asked respondents if they believe that Hillary Clinton is the Devil.  Of self-identified Clinton supporters, 0% think she is the Devil; of self-identified Trump supporters, 41% think she is the Devil.

[Waldo]

Actually, the polls show most of the Johnson votes are coming FROM Trump.

Exactly.  The only argument I have heard is that voting third-party elects Hillary.  I don't know of very many at all that are switching from the D side to vote for Johnson, but many R's are jumping ship.

[Bench]

Exactly.  The only argument I have heard is that voting third-party elects Hillary.  I don't know of very many at all that are switching from the D side to vote for Johnson, but many R's are jumping ship.

The context in which I've heard that discussion is whether Jill Stein can capitalize on the vocal minority of Bernie or Bust people, which is more of a talking point than a reality.  Polling wise Johnson is far outpacing Stein (9% to 3.8% on Real Clear Politics' average of polls) and is the only one that has a chance of reaching the 15% threshold for debates.

Just eclipsing 5% of the general electorate on Nov. 8 would be a very big deal for the Libertarian party.  That would give them access to the  Presidential Election Campaign Fund which would dramatically improve the party's funding for 2020.   

[Limey]

The context in which I've heard that discussion is whether Jill Stein can capitalize on the vocal minority of Bernie or Bust people, which is more of a talking point than a reality.  Polling wise Johnson is far outpacing Stein (9% to 3.8% on Real Clear Politics' average of polls) and is the only one that has a chance of reaching the 15% threshold for debates.

Just eclipsing 5% of the general electorate on Nov. 8 would be a very big deal for the Libertarian party.  That would give them access to the  Presidential Election Campaign Fund which would dramatically improve the party's funding for 2020.   

Current polling shows that Clinton is picking up registered Democrats at a rate in the high-80's / low-90s.  The "Bernie or Bust" folks seem to be dwindling to the point of being statistically irrelevant.  The Greens don't seem to be making much of a dent in the Democrats' support.

(By way of contrast, Trump's support from registered Republicans is in the 60s, which is manifesting itself in certain solidly red states that are now in play for the Democrats this year).

[Bench]

(By way of contrast, Trump's support from registered Republicans is in the 60s, which is manifesting itself in certain solidly red states that are now in play for the Democrats this year).

The South Carolina poll which just came out shows Trump leading by only 2%.

[Limey]

The South Carolina poll which just came out shows Trump leading by only 2%.

Time has published an article in which they report that Priebus has warned Trump to get his shit together or they will abandon him and focus on saving the Senate and House majorities.   You don't need to read the article though, as its redundant once you've seen the cover.

[jbm]

Get his shit together?  They still haven't come to grips with who he actually is and what he represents.

[Bench]

Get his shit together?  They still haven't come to grips with who he actually is and what he represents.

The guy reads GOP economic talking points off a teleprompter and all you hear are stories asking "has he turned a corner" and "he's showing us he can be presidential."  Priebus isn't the only one deluding himself.  Fortunately, Trump hates having his hands tied and always follows up a celebrated not-act-like-a-complete-lunatic event by promptly acting like a complete lunatic.

Just wait until we get the "comeback kid" narrative making the rounds in the media in a couple of weeks. 

[Navin R Johnson]

Now this orange maniac is claiming the only way he can lose is if the election is rigged. 

[MusicMan]

Now this orange maniac is claiming the only way he can lose is if the election is rigged.

And claiming it's especially true in PA - where he's down by 10.


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[das]

And claiming it's especially true in PA - where he's down by 10.

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And loosing amongst white, college educated voters, which no republican has lost in over 50 years.

[WVastro]

I feel like this represents where we are now:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/business/energy-environment/rolling-coal-in-diesel-trucks-to-rebel-and-provoke.html?mwrsm=Email&referer=

In WV I've seen this. Especially since I dared lease a Prius instead of whatever-the-fuck-else I was supposed to spend my money on in order to display my manliness. Fuck the suitcase of money I saved on gas those three years.

[HudsonHawk]

I feel like this represents where we are now:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/business/energy-environment/rolling-coal-in-diesel-trucks-to-rebel-and-provoke.html?mwrsm=Email&referer=

In WV I've seen this. Especially since I dared lease a Prius instead of whatever-the-fuck-else I was supposed to spend my money on in order to display my manliness. Fuck the suitcase of money I saved on gas those three years.

If you're feeling emasculated, buy a tractor.  It really doesn't matter if you need one or not.

[chuck]

Driving a Prius in West Virginia is like driving a Honda in Michigan. Impressive.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I feel like this represents where we are now:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/business/energy-environment/rolling-coal-in-diesel-trucks-to-rebel-and-provoke.html?mwrsm=Email&referer=

In WV I've seen this. Especially since I dared lease a Prius instead of whatever-the-fuck-else I was supposed to spend my money on in order to display my manliness. Fuck the suitcase of money I saved on gas those three years.

I have noticed smoke belching from wealthy farmboys' trucks around Seguin and an equally great nuisance are the blinding super bright LED off road running lights that they like to drive around with turned on in the daytime.

[Limey]

I have noticed smoke belching from wealthy farmboys' trucks around Seguin and an equally great nuisance are the blinding super bright LED off road running lights that they like to drive around with turned on in the daytime.

Newsflash:  people are arseholes.  Also, water is wet.

Stuff like this makes me think that Agent Smith was not wrong.

[das]

I have noticed smoke belching from wealthy farmboys' trucks around Seguin and an equally great nuisance are the blinding super bright LED off road running lights that they like to drive around with turned on in the daytime.

Get off my lawn!!!

[MusicMan]

It only took Trump 8 years to figure out that a guy with a birth certificate was a US citizen, so this whole mass deportation thing should be very efficient.


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[homer]

My favorites from this thread.

It's all groundwork leading up to him quitting in order to avoid what is shaping up to be an arse-kicking for the ages at the polls in November.

I don't think he ever wanted the nomination; he wanted the publicity surrounding a run and never expected to get this far.  Now he's here, he is looking for a way out.  One that gives him plausible whineability.  Absent that escape route (which appears to be the case), he needs grounds to quit without being a quitter - at least in his own mind.

FWIW, the smart money is on this race already being over.  As much as the media will want to keep ginning it up for ratings, that does appear to be the case.  Trump's "Path to 270™" is to hold the states Romney won, and add the swing states in the rust belt.  Well, not only is he losing the swing states - many quite badly - he's also in serious danger of losing some of the Romney states, including Georgia, Arizona and Utah.  Yes, fucking Utah!

Meanwhile, Clinton's 9-point lead in national polls, if it were to hold to the election, would return a landslide 2nd only to Reagan's stomping of Mondale (Obama beat Romney by 4-points nationally and that race wasn't close).  The stage is almost always set coming out of the conventions and doesn't change thereafter.  Clinton took the lead coming out of hers and has seen it increase since.  That has a tendency to set the narrative, so Trump will continue to lose support because he is losing support.  Donors and other Republicans will jump ship, further depressing Trump's poll numbers etc. etc. rinse repeat.

Given that Trump is quite possibly not going to show up, if I were the networks, I'd relax the rules and let the 4 candidates who can move the needle off the Blutarsky line into the debate (i.e. including Stein from the Green Party).

[Fredia]

needless to say now there is an elephant in the room

[Ty in Tampa]

You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

Why?? I'm so fucking gullible.