iPhone SE? Maybe? New Android?

[HudsonHawk]

So Apple has released the new iPhone SE (well a couple of months ago).  It's essentially 6s hardware in a 5s body.  The size of the 6 and 6s was always a complaint, and apparently I'm not the only one in the world who didn't want a gigantic phone, despite Apple and Samsung telling me otherwise, because there have not been any available since launch week.  They're now saying perhaps August when they'll have some more to ship.  So I'm getting really tired of Apple and their bullshit.  The company has gone down the shitter since Jobs.  I do not care for the latest iPhone offerings, and seeing as how the iPhone 5 was last version that Jobs actually held and approved, it's unlikely to get better, especially with that pinhead Cook running the company.  I know the iPhone 7 is due out in the fall, but rumors are that they'll be the same size as the 6s.  Couple that with *another* fucked up boondoggle release with the SE, and I'm seriously looking at something else.  Sony makes a really nice phone in the Xperia Z5 compact, which is the same size as the SE, and all the reviews have been raves.  A couple of issues though:

1.  It's not available through AT&T (or any carrier, for that matter), so I'd have to buy an unlocked phone and set it up for the AT&T.  I'm told that's not a big deal, but was wondering if anyone had any experience with that?

2.  Apps.  I have a lot of them, some of them not cheap, and as I understand it, you cannot transfer them from iOS to Android.  I'd have to re-purchase them all.  Is this true?  If so, they've got me by the short an curlies, so that's a factor. 

Thoughts?

[BizidyDizidy]

I greatly prefer Android to iPhone. Setting up the phone should be a non-event. Don't think you're going to have any luck transferring apps that you paid for directly in the iTunes store - if there are apps that are important to you, I'd suggest making sure they are available on Android at all (there are still a lot that are only one or the other). Certain subscription based apps may be able to transfer via login (like Office suite, MLB.tv, etc.).

Have you tried using a bigger phone for an extended period? Lot's of people don't think they want them, until they use them (and then wonder wtf they were waiting for). My wife has small hands and loves her 6" Nexus 6p.

[HudsonHawk]

I greatly prefer Android to iPhone. Setting up the phone should be a non-event. Don't think you're going to have any luck transferring apps that you paid for directly in the iTunes store - if there are apps that are important to you, I'd suggest making sure they are available on Android at all (there are still a lot that are only one or the other). Certain subscription based apps may be able to transfer via login (like Office suite, MLB.tv, etc.).

There's really only a couple of apps that were more than 99 cents or a buck or two, so it'd probably be cheaper re-purchasing the apps anyway.  Just a pain in the ass.  I'm mostly concerned about things like MLB app, Netflix, etc

Have you tried using a bigger phone for an extended period? Lot's of people don't think they want them, until they use them (and then wonder wtf they were waiting for). My wife has small hands and loves her 6" Nexus 6p.

I've had an iPhone 6 for work for over a year now.  It's simply bulky to slide into a pocket.  It's also slicker than eel shit in my hand.  I like the smaller size and the square corners for carrying around. 

[BizidyDizidy]

There's really only a couple of apps that were more than 99 cents or a buck or two, so it'd probably be cheaper re-purchasing the apps anyway.  Just a pain in the ass.  I'm mostly concerned about things like MLB app, Netflix, etc

Stuff like MLB and netflix that you log into will be fine.

I've had an iPhone 6 for work for over a year now.  It's simply bulky to slide into a pocket.  It's also slicker than eel shit in my hand.  I like the smaller size and the square corners for carrying around.

You can buy a case/skin. I can't help you with your skinny jeans.

[moriartp]

I'm still using a Nexus 5 (2013 model, purchased in 2014), but before that I was on an iPhone 4S. I like a lot of what Android offers, but it comes with its own set of headaches. Here are a few frustrations:

1. Escaping iMessage is a bitch. I've heard that the experience may have improved somewhat since I ditched iOS, but the simple fact is that group messaging (MMS in general, really) was unusable for me when I switched. My contacts' iPhones didn't recognize that I had left the pack, so they would still try to send iMessages rather than MMS on group chats. So three of my friends on iPhones would be having a perfectly normal group chat, assuming I also was, but I wasn't ever getting their messages. This was an issue Apple could have fixed easily, but they let it happen so the experience of switching away is as miserable as possible.

2. The battery life just isn't as good. At all. I don't know of any Android phone that can compete with iPhones on battery life. You hear tales, rumors, whispers... but I'll believe it when I see it. I have heard Sony's high end phones are about as good as it gets on Android (so it might work out for you), but I've never used one.

3. OS updates are unreliable, depending on your phone and carrier. Unless you're on a Nexus, which will get each new OS version upon release, you're subject to the whim of AT&T and the phone manufacturer. Could take months. Could be never. You just don't have any way of knowing. If I stick with Android (I'm on the fence), I won't get anything but a Nexus.

As much as I hate Apple's bullshit, it's just easier to stick with the iPhone that best meets your needs. Switching is a real fucking pain (contacts, apps, accessories, you name it). I'm probably sounding too negative, I really like Android now, but typing all this out has made me remember how many annoyances there were in the first year.

[chuck]

I use a Nexus 5 and an iPhone 6 depending on where I am. I'm not evangelical about it but I strongly prefer the Apple. The idea that the 6 would be too big for anyone seems bizarre. It is for me just about the perfect size and for a variety of reasons is by far the best phone I have ever used. I have one of those leather protectors you get at the Apple store for $250 or whatever they charge and the phone feels great with that. it's nowhere near too big to drop into the front pocket of a pair of baggy cargo shorts which are probably about as roomy as the ludicrous, pleated slacks I envision most of you guys in during the average workday.

[Waldo]

If you want a 4-inch screen then I don't think Android offers anything near "flagship" quality in that size, if anything at all.  All of the most popular Android phones are 5-6 inches.

The Android experience, and the amount of bullshit and fuckery you have to deal with, can vary greatly depending on which manufacturer you go with.

[Mr. Happy]

I love my new Samsung Galaxy 7 Edge, FWIW. But it's big.

[BudGirl]

The Android experience, and the amount of bullshit and fuckery you have to deal with, can vary greatly depending on which manufacturer you go with.

I have the iPhone SE and don't always like it.  There are things about my old android that I loved and I never had the same kind of problems.

[HudsonHawk]

If you want a 4-inch screen then I don't think Android offers anything near "flagship" quality in that size, if anything at all.  All of the most popular Android phones are 5-6 inches.

The Android experience, and the amount of bullshit and fuckery you have to deal with, can vary greatly depending on which manufacturer you go with.

The Sony Xperia Z5 is the only one I've found.  Their "compact" model has the same blood and guts as the "flagship" model.  It's one of the reasons it's rated so high.  And it's slightly larger than the iPhone 5, but not as big as the 6.  And it's half the price.  The only problem with it is, none of the US carriers sell it.  I'd have to get one unlocked.  Which I guess isn't a problem, but there's that pesky OS upgrade issue. 

[HudsonHawk]

I have the iPhone SE and don't always like it.  There are things about my old android that I loved and I never had the same kind of problems.

You're the only person I've heard of who's been able to get an SE.  What did you have before?

[BudGirl]

You're the only person I've heard of who's been able to get an SE.  What did you have before?

an LG.  Mine was free since it had been 3+ years since I had a new phone.

My boss got one also and her provider is AT&T.  I do not remember if she got it from AT&T or Apple.

[HudsonHawk]

an LG.  Mine was free since it had been 3+ years since I had a new phone.

My boss got one also and her provider is AT&T.  I do not remember if she got it from AT&T or Apple.

By "free", you mean the company paid for it?  Cause they're $500 to everyone else.

[BudGirl]

By "free", you mean the company paid for it?  Cause they're $500 to everyone else.

Free as in I paid $30 to have the phone activated.

And the "company" I work for would not buy me a phone.

[HudsonHawk]

Free as in I paid $30 to have the phone activated.

And the "company" I work for would not buy me a phone.

How'd you swing that?  I didn't think any carrier was offering discounted phones anymore.

[BudGirl]

How'd you swing that?  I didn't think any carrier was offering discounted phones anymore.

I guess they like me since I pay my bill.  I don't know.  I cannot seem to get the phone to sync to my computer but I'm thinking that is more of a user problem than the phone.  My carrier is Sprint, I also get a discount because of my employer.

[BizidyDizidy]

The Sony Xperia Z5 is the only one I've found.  Their "compact" model has the same blood and guts as the "flagship" model.  It's one of the reasons it's rated so high.  And it's slightly larger than the iPhone 5, but not as big as the 6.  And it's half the price.  The only problem with it is, none of the US carriers sell it.  I'd have to get one unlocked.  Which I guess isn't a problem, but there's that pesky OS upgrade issue.

I don't think there's any downside to the fact you aren't buying it through a carrier. If anything that marginally may help on OS upgrades (but you are still dependent on Sony's timing).

Still shocked you would prefer a 4 inch phone. Never took you for a short fingered vulgarian.

[BizidyDizidy]

How'd you swing that?  I didn't think any carrier was offering discounted phones anymore.

There is no such thing a free phone. You can pay in your monthly bill or pay upfront. Almost any carrier will give you 0 percent financing on it if you pass a credit check. That's not any different than it was before, just less opaque.

[Nate in IA]

There is no such thing a free phone. You can pay in your monthly bill or pay upfront. Almost any carrier will give you 0 percent financing on it if you pass a credit check. That's not any different than it was before, just less opaque.

but there is such a thing as free service.

[BudGirl]

There is no such thing a free phone. You can pay in your monthly bill or pay upfront. Almost any carrier will give you 0 percent financing on it if you pass a credit check. That's not any different than it was before, just less opaque.

I was expecting to pay something, but my monthly bill did not change.  I was going to pay for a phone upfront but that was not needed.  Seriously, I got a free upgrade.

[BizidyDizidy]

If your old bill was on the same "free phone when you renew" basis, it wouldn't necessarily need to change. The cost of the phone was already included.

[Waldo]

The Sony Xperia Z5 is the only one I've found.  Their "compact" model has the same blood and guts as the "flagship" model.  It's one of the reasons it's rated so high.  And it's slightly larger than the iPhone 5, but not as big as the 6.  And it's half the price.  The only problem with it is, none of the US carriers sell it.  I'd have to get one unlocked.  Which I guess isn't a problem, but there's that pesky OS upgrade issue.

Just FYI, the Z5 Compact has the Snapdragon 810 CPU which is last year's model.  All of the current flagships for Samsung, LG, and HTC use the Snapdragon 820 which I believe is a pretty decent upgrade over the 810.  No doubt it will get a refresh this fall, but it is not quite on par with the competition right now.

[HudsonHawk]

So...because I'm not a particularly patient man...I went ahead and got the iPhone 6s.  It's still big, but I suppose I'll have to get used to it.  I went with the 64GB model, but am wondering if I should swap that for the 128GB...I know the lack of expansion is one of the drawbacks of the iPhone, and bigger is better, right?

[Duke]

So...because I'm not a particularly patient man...I went ahead and got the iPhone 6s.  It's still big, but I suppose I'll have to get used to it.  I went with the 64GB model, but am wondering if I should swap that for the 128GB...I know the lack of expansion is one of the drawbacks of the iPhone, and bigger is better, right?

A good big phone is better than a good little phone.

[MusicMan]

So...because I'm not a particularly patient man...I went ahead and got the iPhone 6s.  It's still big, but I suppose I'll have to get used to it.  I went with the 64GB model, but am wondering if I should swap that for the 128GB...I know the lack of expansion is one of the drawbacks of the iPhone, and bigger is better, right?

That entirely depends on what you plan to store vs. what you plan to stream.

[Limey]

Apropos nothing in this thread, here’s another symptom of the complete devolution of Apple following the departure of Steve Jobs: within days of showcasing the new AirPods with its wireless charging case, Apple killed completely the AirPad charging mat that was intended to be able to recharge your iPhone, Apple Watch and AirPod case all at once.  They couldn’t make it work so decided “ah, fuck it!”

In what universe does Steve Jobs accept that position?  This just continues the clusterfuck that is Apple’s device connections, leaving us poor consumers to deal with a Christmas Vacation-sized knot of wires just to keep our shit powered.  I thought the abandoning of the MagSafe charging port for new MacBooks - in favor of a few USB-C ports that don’t connect to anything - was the all-time low, but this is close in the lazy design Olympics. 

So now you have to stick with the USB-A connectors for your phone and AirPods, plus a dedicated USB-A charger for your watch, none of which will plug into your MacBook without an adapter.  Add to this the Apple TV remote that doesn’t plug into the Apple TV it comes with and you have the sort of disaster that almost has to be planned because the unconnectivity is so complete. 

EOR

[HudsonHawk]

And to close...well nothing, I kicked the iPhone to the curb last fall. Went with the Sony Experia XZ1 compact. Love it. And it was a third the price of an iPhone.

[Waldo]

I thought the abandoning of the MagSafe charging port for new MacBooks - in favor of a few USB-C ports that don’t connect to anything - was the all-time low, but this is close in the lazy design Olympics. 

So now you have to stick with the USB-A connectors for your phone and AirPods, plus a dedicated USB-A charger for your watch, none of which will plug into your MacBook without an adapter.  Add to this the Apple TV remote that doesn’t plug into the Apple TV it comes with and you have the sort of disaster that almost has to be planned because the unconnectivity is so complete. 

You forgot to mention that Apple made the move to USB-C for the late 2018 iPad Pro, a move that seemed to make sense in the context of the decision to go USB-C on the Macs... but then the 2019 iPad Mini and iPad Air still use Lightning.

But hey, new animojis!!!

[Limey]

You forgot to mention that Apple made the move to USB-C for the late 2018 iPad Pro, a move that seemed to make sense in the context of the decision to go USB-C on the Macs... but then the 2019 iPad Mini and iPad Air still use Lightning.

But hey, new animojis!!!

Exactly.  And I believe that even now all iPhones and iPads still use lightning at the business end and USB-A at the other, meaning you can't plug them in to your MacBook without a dongle (which they sell for $19, but you're going to need more than one).

Apple Jobs used to have a vision and he would enforce that vision.  Jobs may well have forced the change to USB-C, but he would have enforced it universally; all of Apple would've worked with all of Apple.  Now they in the business of making sure that nothing connects to anything, giving up on the AirPad after promising it for years and killing the the AirPort networking system because they couldn't be arsed.  Now they're making TV shows.

This kind of drift would never have happened if the company hadn't been taken over by the bean counters.  They stumbled blindly into the obvious fact that most people simply won't buy a new phone every year if it has stupid face-recognition tech that no one wants costs as much as a laptop.  Since then, the best they've come up with is dumbed-down phones that are still too expensive and being last into the crowded subscription TV service melee.

[Waldo]

They stumbled blindly into the obvious fact that most people simply won't buy a new phone every year if it has stupid face-recognition tech that no one wants costs as much as a laptop.  Since then, the best they've come up with is dumbed-down phones that are still too expensive and being last into the crowded subscription TV service melee.

To be fair, this isn't a uniquely Apple problem.  The entire industry is nearing a saturation point with innovation, although 5G will give it a shot in the arm.  Google's cheapest modern phone is $800.  Other companies' flagship phones (Samsung S10, LG G8) still start at about $750-800 just like the iPhone XR.  And it's true that other manufacturers make low-end and mid-range phones while Apple hasn't since the iPhone SE (which was arguably neither, just a 6S with a smaller screen), but when has Apple ever catered to the lower end of any hardware market?  Their computers have always skewed toward the high end and as such have been "too expensive" for the better part of two decades, and their phones and tablets have always run circles around their budget Android counterparts.  The only counterexample I can think of was when they started aggressively pricing the 5th-gen and 6th-gen iPads at $329, but that was in a rather depressed tablet market.  If consumers' changing purchasing habits cause the smartphone market to go the same way, maybe we'll see new flagship devices come down in price just like the iPad.

[subnuclear]

I have a Mac at work and the ergonomic people said the Apple mouse was too small for my hand, so they replaced it with a Logitech mouse. The new mouse, which is also wireless, is actually designed so that you can charge it and use it at the same time. It's quite nice.

[Limey]

I have a Mac at work and the ergonomic people said the Apple mouse was too small for my hand, so they replaced it with a Logitech mouse. The new mouse, which is also wireless, is actually designed so that you can charge it and use it at the same time. It's quite nice.

The Apple mouse is not intended to be used by any human being born after the 15th century.  I got a trackpad instead, which I absolutely love.  I have two sets of rechargeable batteries which I swap out as necessary, using one set while the other charges.

[Limey]

To be fair, this isn't a uniquely Apple problem.  The entire industry is nearing a saturation point with innovation, although 5G will give it a shot in the arm.  Google's cheapest modern phone is $800.  Other companies' flagship phones (Samsung S10, LG G8) still start at about $750-800 just like the iPhone XR.  And it's true that other manufacturers make low-end and mid-range phones while Apple hasn't since the iPhone SE (which was arguably neither, just a 6S with a smaller screen), but when has Apple ever catered to the lower end of any hardware market?  Their computers have always skewed toward the high end and as such have been "too expensive" for the better part of two decades, and their phones and tablets have always run circles around their budget Android counterparts.  The only counterexample I can think of was when they started aggressively pricing the 5th-gen and 6th-gen iPads at $329, but that was in a rather depressed tablet market.  If consumers' changing purchasing habits cause the smartphone market to go the same way, maybe we'll see new flagship devices come down in price just like the iPad.

Apple's stuff used to have a snob-value, but some of that, at least, was based on how good their shit was.  But now their stuff doesn't stand out so much and their Mac OS has almost stood still while Windows has come on in leaps and bounds (admittedly, from light years behind)*.

Something has to give.  Tech behemoths like Apple react only to hits on the stock price, so losing individual customers - even in decently large numbers - won't force a course correction.  Apple had to miss its revenue from iDevices by $1 billion before it registered on its stock price; as to what it's done since, I really don't know.  So maybe I'm wrong, not even that will cause these beasts to stop gamboling forward under their own, irresistible, momentum.

* Mrs Limey was far from an Apple fan girl, but after suffering through HP and Dell laptops, she's now thoroughly enjoying her MacBook Air (the last one, with the MagSafe charger,  before they binned all the ports and replaced them with just two USB-C ports - one of which is needed for the power cable).

[HudsonHawk]

* Mrs Limey was far from an Apple fan girl, but after suffering through HP and Dell laptops, she's now thoroughly enjoying her MacBook Air (the last one, with the MagSafe charger,  before they binned all the ports and replaced them with just two USB-C ports - one of which is needed for the power cable).

I have an Asus Zenbook, which I fucking love.  It's like the MacBook Air, only without the exorbitant markup.  It only has one C port.  That's it.  Normally it's used for charging.  It comes with a dongle, which has a couple of USB ports, an HDMI output,  plus another C port for charging.  It's an exceptional pain in the ass to not have any ports, but the machine itself is fantastic. 

[Waldo]

* Mrs Limey was far from an Apple fan girl, but after suffering through HP and Dell laptops, she's now thoroughly enjoying her MacBook Air

How much did those HP and Dell laptops cost?  My biggest pet peeve about the whole Windows vs. Mac debate is that people think a $500 HP or Toshiba is in any way equivalent to a $1200 MacBook Pro.

[Limey]

How much did those HP and Dell laptops cost?  My biggest pet peeve about the whole Windows vs. Mac debate is that people think a $500 HP or Toshiba is in any way equivalent to a $1200 MacBook Pro.

Those two were cheaper, but the replacement Windows machines she was looking at were coming out the same price as the MB Air.  The latter had the ports and the form factor that she wanted (she's a realtor so is carrying the thing around all day).  It wasn't $1200, because it was the old model discounted because the new one was out.  She didn't want the new one.

[Waldo]

Those two were cheaper, but the replacement Windows machines she was looking at were coming out the same price as the MB Air.  The latter had the ports and the form factor that she wanted (she's a realtor so is carrying the thing around all day).  It wasn't $1200, because it was the old model discounted because the new one was out.  She didn't want the new one.

I don't fault her for switching to Mac because ultimately people like what they like and they hate what they hate.  But there are a ton of shitty Windows laptops out there, and they are often the benchmark used to judge Windows laptops compared to Macs.  Spec for spec they may be comparable to a Mac, but the build quality and the manufacturer support (how long will they release BIOS and driver updates?  is their tech support US-based?) will be inferior.

[Waldo]

I have a Mac at work and the ergonomic people said the Apple mouse was too small for my hand, so they replaced it with a Logitech mouse. The new mouse, which is also wireless, is actually designed so that you can charge it and use it at the same time. It's quite nice.

You know, I don't use the Magic Mouse and I wish it was shaped a little differently, but I think it's a pretty cool little mouse.  And I can appreciate that Apple changed their mice, keyboards, and trackpads to be rechargeable instead of requiring AA/AAA batteries.  But I want to know what supposed genius at Apple put the Lightning charging port on the BOTTOM of the fucking Magic Mouse.  What in the actual fuck?  Both the wireless keyboard and the Magic Trackpad 2 have their charging ports on the rear back of the device, allowing them to be used while plugged in.

Now, to be fair, my Logitech rechargeable mouse at home can't be used while charging - it has charging contacts on the bottom and it drops into a charger base to charge.  But I bought that mouse 11 years ago.  You'd think if Logitech had figured it out by now (like subnuclear's mouse) then Apple could have.

[Limey]

You know, I don't use the Magic Mouse and I wish it was shaped a little differently, but I think it's a pretty cool little mouse.  And I can appreciate that Apple changed their mice, keyboards, and trackpads to be rechargeable instead of requiring AA/AAA batteries.  But I want to know what supposed genius at Apple put the Lightning charging port on the BOTTOM of the fucking Magic Mouse.  What in the actual fuck?  Both the wireless keyboard and the Magic Trackpad 2 have their charging ports on the rear back of the device, allowing them to be used while plugged in assuming you have the appropriate dongle.

FIFY

[Waldo]

FIFY

Well played, sir.  At least the Mac desktops haven't abandoned USB-A yet.

[Limey]

Apple must be spying on me.