Author Topic: 2016  (Read 3095 times)

David in Jackson

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2016
« on: May 22, 2016, 04:01:48 pm »
The team is 17-28 and (only) ten games out of first (8.5 out of wild card).  What should the plan be for the rest of 2016?  Send out the same lineup with the same manager and trust things will turn around?  Bring up more players from the minors?  What about Gomez?  Fire Hinch?  Play teh rookies (Kemp, Moran, Reed)?  Sellers at the deadline?  Buyers?  I'm grasping here.
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juliogotay

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Re: 2016
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2016, 04:05:16 pm »
The team is 17-28 and (only) ten games out of first (8.5 out of wild card).  What should the plan be for the rest of 2016?  Send out the same lineup with the same manager and trust things will turn around?  Bring up more players from the minors?  What about Gomez?  Fire Hinch?  Play teh rookies (Kemp, Moran, Reed)?  Sellers at the deadline?  Buyers?  I'm grasping here.

There has been some of this discussion in today's Game Zone.

MusicMan

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Re: 2016
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2016, 04:20:21 pm »
1. Send White down.  Call up Singleton.  Put him in the lineup every day.  If he can't cut it this year, release him and stop wasting the 40-man spot.
2. As soon as Super-2 passes, call up AJ Reed.  No platooning.  Almost every day, he's the DH or 1b.
3. "Carlos Gomez has been designated for assignment."
4. Fiers to the pen.  Feliz takes his slot.
5. Marisnick back to the bench.  Kemp-Rasmus-Springer becomes your regular outfield.
6. Moran is your regular 3b.
7.  Do not wait for the deadline.  If someone is willing to make a good deal now for Rasmus, Castro, Gregerson, Neshek, Feldman... hell, even McHugh or Fiers, then take it.
8. Keep Hinch. There is no sign that this team's problems are managerial in nature.
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Fredia

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Re: 2016
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2016, 04:31:39 pm »
mental?
forever is composed entirely of nows

Mr. Happy

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Re: 2016
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2016, 05:02:11 pm »
1. Send White down.  Call up Singleton.  Put him in the lineup every day.  If he can't cut it this year, release him and stop wasting the 40-man spot.
2. As soon as Super-2 passes, call up AJ Reed.  No platooning.  Almost every day, he's the DH or 1b.
3. "Carlos Gomez has been designated for assignment."
4. Fiers to the pen.  Feliz takes his slot.
5. Marisnick back to the bench.  Kemp-Rasmus-Springer becomes your regular outfield.
6. Moran is your regular 3b.
7.  Do not wait for the deadline.  If someone is willing to make a good deal now for Rasmus, Castro, Gregerson, Neshek, Feldman... hell, even McHugh or Fiers, then take it.
8. Keep Hinch. There is no sign that this team's problems are managerial in nature.

And, don't trade any prospects.
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David in Jackson

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Re: 2016
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2016, 05:03:12 pm »
There has been some of this discussion in today's Game Zone.

Yes.  I was there and would like a larger more sustained discussion.  Like I said, I'm grasping here.
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2016
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2016, 05:06:11 pm »
1. Send White down.  Call up Singleton.  Put him in the lineup every day.  If he can't cut it this year, release him and stop wasting the 40-man spot.
2. As soon as Super-2 passes, call up AJ Reed.  No platooning.  Almost every day, he's the DH or 1b.
3. "Carlos Gomez has been designated for assignment."
4. Fiers to the pen.  Feliz takes his slot.
5. Marisnick back to the bench.  Kemp-Rasmus-Springer becomes your regular outfield.
6. Moran is your regular 3b.
7.  Do not wait for the deadline.  If someone is willing to make a good deal now for Rasmus, Castro, Gregerson, Neshek, Feldman... hell, even McHugh or Fiers, then take it.
8. Keep Hinch. There is no sign that this team's problems are managerial in nature.

You forgot 9. Keuchel to the DL.
Because if he isn't hurt then the problem is either mental or he is no longer able to locate his pitches consistently. Neither of those options bode well for the future.
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MusicMan

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Re: 2016
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2016, 05:38:43 pm »
You forgot 9. Keuchel to the DL.
Because if he isn't hurt then the problem is either mental or he is no longer able to locate his pitches consistently. Neither of those options bode well for the future.

Neither does the fact that MLB is raising the strike zone next year.
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Re: 2016
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2016, 09:23:08 pm »
1. Send White down.  Call up Singleton.  Put him in the lineup every day.  If he can't cut it this year, release him and stop wasting the 40-man spot.

What has Singleton done at any level in the last three years that shows he deserves a 40-man spot, much less a 25-man spot?  If we're going to go back to the drawing board and sink or swim with a young player, let it be White or Reed. This team doesn't need any more low-average, high(ish)-slugging type players.

Quote
7.  Do not wait for the deadline.  If someone is willing to make a good deal now for Rasmus, Castro, Gregerson, Neshek, Feldman... hell, even McHugh or Fiers, then take it.

Disregarding Castro's arbitration fight, would you consider keeping him given his resurgence at the plate?

I personally would hold onto McHugh and Fiers but agree that the others listed are expendable.

bubba

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Re: 2016
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2016, 10:10:38 pm »
1. Send White down.  Call up Singleton.  Put him in the lineup every day.  If he can't cut it this year, release him and stop wasting the 40-man spot.
2. As soon as Super-2 passes, call up AJ Reed.  No platooning.  Almost every day, he's the DH or 1b.
3. "Carlos Gomez has been designated for assignment."
4. Fiers to the pen.  Feliz takes his slot.
5. Marisnick back to the bench.  Kemp-Rasmus-Springer becomes your regular outfield.
6. Moran is your regular 3b.
7.  Do not wait for the deadline.  If someone is willing to make a good deal now for Rasmus, Castro, Gregerson, Neshek, Feldman... hell, even McHugh or Fiers, then take it.
8. Keep Hinch. There is no sign that this team's problems are managerial in nature.

There are not a lot of positives in Fresno right now, Singleton and Tucker are big disappointments.

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Re: 2016
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2016, 08:40:04 am »
I don't see a lot of positives on the offensive side in Fresno other than Worth, and he's probably not an important long-term piece.

As to this year, fuck if I can explain it; I didn't expect this shitshow.  I really like what Luhnow's player development has accomplished, but the results at the MLB level (and his big trades) can't be ignored. 

I can't see how firing Hinch is an option, at least not for Luhnow.  How many bites of that apple does a GM get before he is held accountable?  Or, in other words, why would you put your faith in Luhnow to pick another manager, if his previous two choices have flamed out quickly?

Crane has a tough decision in front of him: stay the course or make changes. 

pots

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Re: 2016
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2016, 12:09:51 pm »
Ever since Luhnow let Heck go, their ability to evaluate talent seems to have gone to shit

juliogotay

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Re: 2016
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2016, 12:27:24 pm »
Ever since Luhnow let Heck go, their ability to evaluate talent seems to have gone to shit

I think I could make a case against this argument but I don't have time to do the research. Other teams seem to be interested in the Astros minor league talent. Philly, Milwaukee and Oakland took several off of their hands. Yet the farm still seems to be in fairly good shape. Currently there are only seven Houston draftees on the 25-man roster. Four were Luhnow picks; Correa, McCullers, Kemp and White. That is  two first-rounders, a 5th and a 33rd.
There are still three picks from the Wade era; Keuchel, Springer and Castro. Heck stayed around for the first Luhnow draft which yielded Correa and McCullers. Too early to argue this point definitively IMO.

pots

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Re: 2016
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 12:40:48 pm »
Other teams seem to be interested in the Astros minor league talent. Philly, Milwaukee and Oakland took several off of their hands. Yet the farm still seems to be in fairly good shape.

Drafting good players then trading them away for other teams overrated players is not a win.  I disagree with you over the state of the farm.  And I conveniently, for the purposes of my crap theory, eliminated McCullers and Correa from the equation
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 12:43:04 pm by pots »

jbm

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Re: 2016
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2016, 01:01:09 pm »
I think even post-Heck, they have done a pretty good job identifying amateur talent (one gigantic exception excluded).  It's hard to separate talent evaluation from development, but I sense they are are pretty damn good at developing talent also.  These duties are obviously critical, providing new blood and currency.  It's how they use that currency and construct a roster that has given me some pause. 

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Re: 2016
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2016, 01:08:22 pm »
I think I could make a case against this argument but I don't have time to do the research. Other teams seem to be interested in the Astros minor league talent. Philly, Milwaukee and Oakland took several off of their hands. Yet the farm still seems to be in fairly good shape. Currently there are only seven Houston draftees on the 25-man roster. Four were Luhnow picks; Correa, McCullers, Kemp and White. That is  two first-rounders, a 5th and a 33rd.
There are still three picks from the Wade era; Keuchel, Springer and Castro. Heck stayed around for the first Luhnow draft which yielded Correa and McCullers. Too early to argue this point definitively IMO.

I thought Heck was partly responsible for Correa, even though Luhnow was the GM?
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juliogotay

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Re: 2016
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2016, 01:11:48 pm »
Drafting good players then trading them away for other teams overrated players is not a win.  I disagree with you over the state of the farm.  And I conveniently, for the purposes of my crap theory, eliminated McCullers and Correa from the equation

It's your theory so you can do whatever you want with it but it seems that trading draft choices for established players does not diminish the value of the pick.?

pots

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Re: 2016
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2016, 01:33:14 pm »
It's your theory so you can do whatever you want with it but it seems that trading draft choices for established players does not diminish the value of the pick.?

The only thing that matters is what they get in the end for the major league club.  If you draft some talented players but trade them in for lesser talent(or for players past their prime), then you truly didn't evaluate those guys well. 

JimR

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Re: 2016
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2016, 01:36:12 pm »
The only thing that matters is what they get in the end for the major league club.  If you draft some talented players but trade them in for lesser talent(or for players past their prime), then you truly didn't evaluate those guys well.

do not be stupid. no one does what you say on purpose. some trades work out, and some do not.
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Re: 2016
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2016, 01:37:30 pm »
The only thing that matters is what they get in the end for the major league club.  If you draft some talented players but trade them in for lesser talent(or for players past their prime), then you truly didn't evaluate those guys well.

I bet Houston will eventually regret trading some of those prospects.

juliogotay

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Re: 2016
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2016, 01:40:50 pm »
I thought Heck was partly responsible for Correa, even though Luhnow was the GM?

Yes, I was trying to make the point that Heck was there in 2012 and may have had influence in those picks. No one outside of the room knows how much or how it all went down. The pattern with Luhnow appears to be, at least in the high picks, to look for input from all around.

Mr. Happy

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Re: 2016
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2016, 02:08:58 pm »
Ever since Luhnow let Heck go, their ability to evaluate talent seems to have gone to shit

Who does Heck work for now? I've violated the lawyer's maxim and have asked a question to which I don't know the answer, but I'm too busy to look it up at this moment.
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Re: 2016
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2016, 02:16:12 pm »
Who does Heck work for now? I've violated the lawyer's maxim and have asked a question to which I don't know the answer, but I'm too busy to look it up at this moment.

Tampa Bay, Special Assistant to Baseball Operations staff

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Re: 2016
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2016, 03:03:34 pm »
do not be stupid. no one does what you say on purpose. some trades work out, and some do not.

Forgive me if I stated that Luhnow purposely screwed up. 

Fredia

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Re: 2016
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2016, 03:15:31 pm »
so hold em (the team) or fold em
forever is composed entirely of nows

pots

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Re: 2016
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2016, 03:28:18 pm »
so hold em (the team) or fold em

Still only May.  Can't really fold it till mid-late June.  If they do fold at that point they got a few interesting trade chips.  Gregerson, Rasmus, Fister, Feldman, Neshek and Castro.