Author Topic: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)  (Read 8397 times)

Limey

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Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« on: December 21, 2015, 02:08:26 pm »
I thought I'd start this so those of us who've seen the movie can discuss it in detail, rather than in veiled comments.

Rey:
Some say she's Ren's twin but I don't see the Solos having a daughter that they don't know about or have forgotten.  Maybe they thought she was dead; possible, but you'd think Leia would get the ol' strange feeling in the Force when they meet.  I have another thought, intertwined with Kylo Ren...


Kylo Ren:
Also called "Ben" by his father, Han Solo, just before Ren killed him.  Ren's background is the one most fleshed out in the movie, but than name...Ben.  Why would they call their son Ben, when neither Han nore Leia had much of a relationship with Kenobi?  What if Ben and Rey are twins...but are the offspring of Luke?  Ben wouldn't be the first Skywalker offloaded onto an aunt and uncle, and Rey wouldn't be the first one dumped on a remote desert shithole.


Finn:
Abrams has said that both Rey's and Finn's last names have been withheld deliberately.  I'm going to go out on a (racist) limb here, and say that Finn's last name is Calrissian.  However, it could be Solo, which would also explain why Han and Leia were split (I doubt very much that Star Wars would go there, however).



Overall Impressions:

Need to see it again as I was too caught up in trying to figure everything out that I forgot to just watch the fucking movie.  It was a "proper" Star Wars movie though; mostly, unfortunately, because the plot is pretty much a remake of IV with a seemingly endless stream of nods, winks and throwbacks to the old trilogy that became increasingly unnecessary.  When will the Empire / First Order learn to put the self-destruct button on the inside?

The x-wing approach over water and the in-atmo dog fight with tie fighters was fantastic.

Plenty of plot holes: some deliberate, some not.  It wouldn't be Star Wars without them though (why doesn't Ren Force-fuck the shit out of Finn - like he'd just done to Rey - instead of choosing to fight him with a light sabre?)

I have read that there was supposed to be a bunch of dialog between Rey and Luke at the end, but they cut it as it would have been a real snooze to end the movie on a bunch of exposition.  Hopefully that's where VIII picks up.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 02:42:51 pm »
I thought I'd start this so those of us who've seen the movie can discuss it in detail, rather than in veiled comments.

Rey:
Some say she's Ren's twin but I don't see the Solos having a daughter that they don't know about or have forgotten.  Maybe they thought she was dead; possible, but you'd think Leia would get the ol' strange feeling in the Force when they meet.  I have another thought, intertwined with Kylo Ren


My theory on Rey is that she is Luke's daughter (making Ren and Rey cousins - hence the odd familiarity between the two). When Ren took out all the new "younglings" Luke quickly hid his very force sensitive child from Kylo Ren on a desert planet just as he was hidden from Vadar. The mysterious old fellow at the beginning of the film may have been "looking after" Rey just as Ben Kenobi did for Luke. (He was obviously someone who knew Luke and Leia well but not much else was (porposfully) said about him.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 05:24:46 pm by WVastro »

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 02:52:51 pm »
I also think that the reason Ren didn't unleash the force on Finn is that approach backfired against Rey. Once he started exposing her to the force she "went online" and started unlocking her powers. I have a hunch Finn is also force sensitive and might be related to Mace Windu. Kylo Ren may have been aware of this and chose to finish him by more conventional means.  Finn Windu has a nice ring to it.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 08:51:58 pm »
Count me among those who feel that Rey is Luke's daughter.   The only question of course is, by whom?   

This is setting things up so that Luke will have to come back to fight his former protege' Kylo Ren I think.

 Not sure about Finn.    It was interesting that he claims to have been taken very young and trained in the way of the Stormtroopers and this razing of the village was his first exposure to action.   I like the thought that he is of the Calrissian descent.   

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 08:49:26 am »
I'm in the camp that thinks that Rey was one of Luke's Jedi disciples who escaped before Ren wiped everyone out.  It would be too...cute for her to be Luke's daughter.  But then again, there were a whole lot of "cute" moments in this movie already.

Dang, I want a BB-8 toy.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 11:39:02 am »
Also in the camp of Rey being Luke's daughter, but I agree it would be too cute.  Maybe when Luke saw her he sensed her immense force capabilities?  She sure seemed to master it pretty quickly.

I really look forward to Snoke's further involvement in the plot.

Favorite new character: Poe Dameron.  "So are you going to talk first or should I?"
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Limey

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 11:50:04 am »
I also think that the reason Ren didn't unleash the force on Finn is that approach backfired against Rey. Once he started exposing her to the force she "went online" and started unlocking her powers. I have a hunch Finn is also force sensitive and might be related to Mace Windu. Kylo Ren may have been aware of this and chose to finish him by more conventional means.  Finn Windu has a nice ring to it.

Also, it will be awesome when he drops his first "motherfucker".
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Limey

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 11:55:48 am »
Favorite new character: Poe Dameron.  "So are you going to talk first or should I?"

That was a great line!  He's the new Solo in that regard, I think.

Ren has the potential to be a great, complex villain - I just hope that they don't Vaderize him with respect to the obvious conflict in him between light and dark sides of the Force.  It'll be great if they leave him to struggle with it, rather than just flipping a switch from one to the other.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 12:05:15 pm »
My least favorite plot hole, if you can call it that, was the near the end when they were fighting the new Death Star (or whatever it's now called).  We have 15 minutes to get blow it up!  Oh shit those 15 minutes are up!  Now we only have 2 minutes!
Not a big deal, but still.

Han's death scene killed me.  I expected him to die going in, but man.  Lightsaber thru the torso by your son?  Brutal.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 03:36:37 pm »
I loved that it very much hit the same tones as the original. I was almost immediately invested in the new characters. The actress who plays Rey is a million times better than Natalie Portman ever was in the prequels.

Almost everything about Kylo Ren was cool -- how he dealt with feeling good and bad, the light and the dark, but in a very different way than Vader -- much more emotional. His homemade lightsaber. The new ways he used the force (mind-reading? freezing blaster shots in midair?) And how he used it to trash stuff when he got frustrated.

I spent the whole movie thinking Rey was Han's daughter, but there is plenty to think she could be Luke's, too. My out-on-a-limb prediction: She is the daughter of Luke and Captain Phasma (the female, chrome stormtrooper).

Speaking of Luke... I knew he had little to do with this movie, but I still expected a little more of him. That said, I actually would have been okay if the movie had ended 5 minutes earlier and we had never seen Luke -- if it had ended with Rey and Chewie taking off to go find him.

I really liked the personality they found in BB-8 -- different than R2-D2's personality, but equally impressive to come across from a "being" with no words or facial expressions. And I liked the Maz character Han took his group to, the wise one who had Luke's lightsaber. I hope we get more of her.

I'm young enough to have mostly missed the originals in theaters, so for the first time in my life, I left a theater after a Star Wars movie thinking, "Man, I want to know more! I can't wait two more years!" Which was actually kind of a good feeling.

I rarely see movies more than once in the theater, but I might have to go back for this one.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 07:51:18 am »
Went and saw it last night with my 15 year old son.  He has been raised with the originals on VHS.  We both enjoyed it. We saw it in 3-D and I think it actually was a distraction for me. 

It has been a long time since I have walked out of an action adventure type moving wanting to see it again.   

I think Rey is Luke's daughter.  But Leia's anguished face during the hug with Rey could have meant more than just grieving the loss of Han.  So I won't be totally surprised if Ren & Rey are twins.

Loved BB 8.  It is amazing what having a head to move can add to the emotions of a droid. 

Found C3PO more annoying than before.  It is like they turned his personality switch up a notch. 





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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 09:51:29 am »
I can't think of any movie I've ever seen where the second-billed person on the poster didn't have any lines.
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Limey

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 02:06:14 pm »
I can't think of any movie I've ever seen where the second-billed person on the poster didn't have any lines.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 07:11:42 pm »
Having watched the original over the weekend I'm very happy that this was a much better version of the same movie.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2015, 07:12:20 pm »
My vote is Rey as a Luke protege but not daughter.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2015, 11:16:11 pm »
Well, she's obviously related to Anakin. Natural pilot, good with tinkering on tech., grew up on a desert planet in relative squalor. I just think that either Han and Leia somehow not knowing about a child they had is a huge stretch. My Ockams-o-meter keeps "forcing" me back to Luke getting his shit freaked out and hiding his daughter.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2015, 11:29:15 pm »

Well, she's obviously related to Anakin. Natural pilot, good with tinkering on tech., grew up on a desert planet in relative squalor. I just think that either Han and Leia somehow not knowing about a child they had is a huge stretch. My Ockams-o-meter keeps "forcing" me back to Luke getting his shit freaked out and hiding his daughter.

It would be highly out of character for Han and Leia to have abandoned a child. But She's definitely got some skywalker in her somehow. 

The big challenge of the next movie is to compensate for Hamil's shitty acting.
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Limey

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2015, 09:12:19 am »
The big challenge of the next movie is to compensate for Hamil's shitty acting.

He looked anything but a grizzled veteran full of stories and wisdom; and everything like someone who should not be allowed within 150 feet of a church or a Chuckie Cheese.

There's was a fair amount of shitty acting in IV - VI, and an ocean of shitty acting in I - III.  But the new players look up to the task - not Shakespearean or anything, but able to handle the occasional emotional spike in between running from explosions - so Hamill and, to a lesser extent Fisher, will have to up their game.  Might be tough for them having sat on the bench for so long.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2015, 05:07:56 pm »


There's was a fair amount of shitty acting in IV - VI, and an ocean of shitty acting in I - III.  But the new players look up to the task - not Shakespearean or anything, but able to handle the occasional emotional spike in between running from explosions - so Hamill and, to a lesser extent Fisher, will have to up their game.  Might be tough for them having sat on the bench for so long.

It was tough watching Ford hobble his action scenes. Dude was creakin'.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2015, 05:59:59 pm »
+ no Lucas.  - nothing.  I didn't go in expecting Citizen Kane.  I wanted to be entertained and Luke to still be good.  I got both.  I was 10 when the original came out.  I was as entertained now as I was then.

Rey is a Skywalker. By Luke or Leia dunno.

Luke will be Obi/Yoda like and likely die the same way Obiwan did in the next movie.

I hope they didn't write themselves into a hole.  Never trained Rey ended up kicking heavily trained Ren's ass.  Any future showdown, assuming Rey is fully trained, has to be Rey dominant.  She was clearly stronger with the force.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2015, 10:51:35 pm »
+ no Lucas.  - nothing.  I didn't go in expecting Citizen Kane.  I wanted to be entertained and Luke to still be good.  I got both.  I was 10 when the original came out.  I was as entertained now as I was then.

Rey is a Skywalker. By Luke or Leia dunno.

I thought that way as well but now I've read some interesting articles about how Rey might be a Kenobi. Very possible.

Kylo Ren was called back by Snoke to "complete his training". I'm sure he'll have some new tricks up his sleeve next time. Speaking of.... I have to say that scene with him stopping a blaster shot mid-air was pretty badass.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2015, 08:59:54 am »

I hope they didn't write themselves into a hole.  Never trained Rey ended up kicking heavily trained Ren's ass.  Any future showdown, assuming Rey is fully trained, has to be Rey dominant.  She was clearly stronger with the force.

Ren had taken a gut shot from Chewie's blaster, which they'd spent half the movie playing up.  But I see what you're saying.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2015, 10:09:43 am »
I thought that way as well but now I've read some interesting articles about how Rey might be a Kenobi. Very possible.

Kylo Ren was called back by Snoke to "complete his training". I'm sure he'll have some new tricks up his sleeve next time. Speaking of.... I have to say that scene with him stopping a blaster shot mid-air was pretty badass.


I'm still musing on why Ren's given name is "Ben".  It was revealed at a very poignant moment; whereas prior to that Han and Leia had been at pains to avoid saying his name.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2015, 10:29:25 am »
I enjoyed it despite some faults.  I was not really a fan of the octopus action sequence in the freighter.  But there were some phenomenal moments, like Kylo stopping the light saber or Rey out-forcing Kylo for Luke's light saber.

A little annoyed that Rey picked up the force so easily whereas it basically took Luke weeks (?) of training to use it. 

I am sure Rey will be kin to someone we already know, but I would be happy if it were just some random Jedi that hasn't been introduced yet.  Aren't there like thousands of Jedi in the galaxy?  I don't need everything to be so incestual to enjoy a good story.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2015, 11:53:03 am »
I am sure Rey will be kin to someone we already know, but I would be happy if it were just some random Jedi that hasn't been introduced yet.  Aren't there like thousands of Jedi in the galaxy?  I don't need everything to be so incestual to enjoy a good story.


This is a confusing element currently.  Sidious / Vader wiped out the Jedi, save Kenobi and Vader's own offspring - who ended up being the last hope(s) for the Jedi.  So it would seem that only Skywalkers could produce future Jedi (otherwise Kenobi and Yoda would have been out looking for other kids with force powers).

However, Luke was running a Jedi Summer Camp for force-aware kids, including Ben/Ren, before Ben/Ren crabbed over to the dark side and (supposedly) wiped out all of Luke's students.  Where did all these other kids come from?  Did Luke go on Shawn Kemp-style impregnation spree?  Kenobi had a lot of time on his hands while cooling his heels on Tatooine and was more than familiar with Mos Eisley's scummy bar scene ("these are the testicles you have been looking for") - maybe he's got a few baby mommas out there.

Hopefully, such things will become clear over time.  Or, because it's Abrams, he'll just leave us hanging.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2015, 11:57:26 am »

This is a confusing element currently.  Sidious / Vader wiped out the Jedi, save Kenobi and Vader's own offspring - who ended up being the last hope(s) for the Jedi.  So it would seem that only Skywalkers could produce future Jedi (otherwise Kenobi and Yoda would have been out looking for other kids with force powers).

However, Luke was running a Jedi Summer Camp for force-aware kids, including Ben/Ren, before Ben/Ren crabbed over to the dark side and (supposedly) wiped out all of Luke's students.  Where did all these other kids come from?  Did Luke go on Shawn Kemp-style impregnation spree?  Kenobi had a lot of time on his hands while cooling his heels on Tatooine and was more than familiar with Mos Eisley's scummy bar scene ("these are the testicles you have been looking for") - maybe he's got a few baby mommas out there.

Hopefully, such things will become clear over time.  Or, because it's Abrams, he'll just leave us hanging.

It's been established that force kids can come from anywhere.  In the parlance of another franchise, muggle born.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2015, 11:59:22 am »
Ren had taken a gut shot from Chewie's blaster, which they'd spent half the movie playing up.  But I see what you're saying.

Ren had kicked Rey's butt up to the newly created cliff.  All he had to do was kick her and she's dead.  Instead he offers to train her, giving her time to regroup.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2015, 01:13:46 pm »
Ren had kicked Rey's butt up to the newly created cliff.  All he had to do was kick her and she's dead.  Instead he offers to train her, giving her time to regroup.

I need to rewatch, but I was a little confused by that.  They had dramatic music indicating something was happening...was it just Rey regaining strength like a video game character?

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2015, 01:34:47 pm »
I need to rewatch, but I was a little confused by that.  They had dramatic music indicating something was happening...was it just Rey regaining strength like a video game character?

I thought that she was feeling / cranking up her force powers.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2015, 02:56:21 pm »
I thought that she was feeling / cranking up her force powers.

She was in trouble.  The hesitation gave her time to get herself under control.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2015, 02:56:59 pm »
This is crazy and silly and impossible, but...

Supreme Leader Snoke is... Jar Jar??
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w

(Seriously, read the explanation. Mind-boggling, JFK-level stuff, and of course incredibly unlikely. But... what if?)
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2015, 03:04:26 pm »
Ren had kicked Rey's butt up to the newly created cliff.  All he had to do was kick her and she's dead.  Instead he offers to train her, giving her time to regroup.
Right. It's totally plausible that he was holding back because he didn't want to kill Rey; he wanted her to join him. What I found so odd was that Finn, a guy with basic Stormtrooper combat training but (as far as we can tell) no Jedi-type abilities whatsoever, was able to hold his own against Kylo Ren for so long. The crossbow-shot wound is the only excuse Ren has there, because all Finn is to him is a "traitor," and he seemed rather angry about that.

To me, it made Ren look rather un-formidable.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2015, 03:12:02 pm »
Right. It's totally plausible that he was holding back because he didn't want to kill Rey; he wanted her to join him. What I found so odd was that Finn, a guy with basic Stormtrooper combat training but (as far as we can tell) no Jedi-type abilities whatsoever, was able to hold his own against Kylo Ren for so long. The crossbow-shot wound is the only excuse Ren has there, because all Finn is to him is a "traitor," and he seemed rather angry about that.

To me, it made Ren look rather un-formidable.

He was quite vulnerable.  Killing Han was his way of trying to man up to the dark side. I'm not convinced it worked.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2015, 11:19:47 am »
He was quite vulnerable.  Killing Han was his way of trying to man up to the dark side. I'm not convinced it worked.
Good point. I hadn't quite considered that angle.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2015, 02:15:21 pm »
Good point. I hadn't quite considered that angle.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2015, 05:05:48 pm »
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2015, 11:00:39 am »
There's was a fair amount of shitty acting in IV - VI, and an ocean of shitty acting in I - III.  But the new players look up to the task - not Shakespearean or anything, but able to handle the occasional emotional spike in between running from explosions - so Hamill and, to a lesser extent Fisher, will have to up their game.  Might be tough for them having sat on the bench for so long.

Ford was Ford but I was surprised to see how poorly Fisher was as an actor.  She's been working in the business actively for years.

I sure hope Hamill is doing some Shakespeare in the Park or something to practice leading up to Episode VIII. 
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2015, 11:10:51 am »
Ford was Ford but I was surprised to see how poorly Fisher was as an actor.  She's been working in the business actively for years.

I sure hope Hamill is doing some Shakespeare in the Park or something to practice leading up to Episode VIII.

Hamill does an enormous amount of voice work.  Don't know if he's done any live acting.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2015, 11:25:23 am »
Hamill does an enormous amount of voice work.  Don't know if he's done any live acting.

Ironically appropriate, seeing as Lucas' scripts eschewed actual acting in favor of exposition, e.g. "I've got a bad feeling about this".
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2015, 11:32:20 am »
Hamill does an enormous amount of voice work.  Don't know if he's done any live acting.
Maybe kill him off and have him complete Rey's training as a Kenobi-style voice from the beyond?

I can see it now. Opening scene of VIII: Luke walks over to accept the saber from Rey but trips and falls off the cliff. All the best SW deaths occur from a great height anyway.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2015, 02:06:43 pm »
Hamill does an enormous amount of voice work.  Don't know if he's done any live acting.

Surely you have seen his Oscar-caliber performance as the Cocknocker in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2015, 02:32:16 pm »
Surely you have seen his Oscar-caliber performance as the Cocknocker in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?
He voiced The Joker for years on the excellent Batman cartoon from the 90's.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2015, 05:02:34 pm »
I know. Jacksonian asked about live action.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2015, 10:01:17 pm »
I think Rey's rapidly developed Force skills points toward her being previously trained, presumably by Luke,  then hidden on Jakku, presumably to avoid being skewered by Kylo Ren Anakin-style.

The movie is titled The Force Awakens,  after all,  and not The Force Suddenly Develops in A Plucky Scavenger Who Is Going to Cause The First Order  World of Pain.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2015, 06:58:13 am »
I think Rey's rapidly developed Force skills points toward her being previously trained, presumably by Luke,  then hidden on Jakku, presumably to avoid being skewered by Kylo Ren Anakin-style.

The movie is titled The Force Awakens,  after all,  and not The Force Suddenly Develops in A Plucky Scavenger Who Is Going to Cause The First Order  World of Pain.
I'm a fan of this idea. Furthering it a little, I wonder if her venture into Kylo Ren's mind didn't help unlock/reawaken some of those abilities.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2015, 09:27:46 am »
The movie is titled The Force Awakens,  after all,  and not The Force Suddenly Develops in A Plucky Scavenger Who Is Going to Cause The First Order  World of Pain.

I believe that is part of Lucas' working title for his draft, although his complete title ended "...on C-SPAN in Racist CGI".

Meanwhile, Lucas has (actually) spoken about the new movie.  To sum up..."Waaaaaaaaa...mine were better."  Although, how he handles the cognitive dissonance of "VII" taking eleventy-billion dollars at the box office in two weeks is beyond me.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2015, 09:30:54 am »
I'm a fan of this idea. Furthering it a little, I wonder if her venture into Kylo Ren's mind didn't help unlock/reawaken some of those abilities.

For a further glimpse into Ren's mind, you need to search your feelings Twitter for Emo Kylo Ren:

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2015, 01:22:33 pm »
Okay, now that I've seen the movie (last night, date night with the missus!), I can crack open this thread and maybe contribute. Here are some impressions:

1. I thought the movie could have been better to tell "a" story (not necessarily "the" story). IOW - I found it a bit fragmented and relied heavily on my own knowledge of the Star Wars movies to spackle in some nuances. In fact, whoever said this was a tribute movie got it right... I really didn't feel I was watching a movie on it's own merit, but a movie that was a tribute movie and way to say good-bye to old characters while somewhat introducing new ones.

2.  My first words as I walked out of the theatre (to my wife who understood fully what I meant): "This was a movie for *them*, not a movie for *us*". This movie was a PC clean up of what would never fly today by original Star Wars standards (White male hero Hans, white male hero Luke, white male mentor Obi-Won, etc.). Is that good or bad? I dunno, but it is what today's young audience expects in movies... not to be offended while still liking the movie for the action, et. al. BTW - good to see that the villains are still all White Males (with a few Carly Fiorina's mixed in - nice touch with the Nazi-like stage setting when the leader announces the destruction of the Rebels with their new weapon and all the audience of storm troopers salute with a clenched fist similar to the Nazi salute), makes the differences between the Rebel forces more plausible as creatures and mix race, mix gender, disenfranchised, even more heroic. I think the movie producers know their audience all too well not to be purposeful in what they made in this movie.

3. Rey - she struck me as Luke reincarnated, but now with girl power instead of whatever what was portrayed back when (nerd power? geek power? kid who usually gets bullied learns how to use power within?). She never showed her strength because she didn't know she had any... other than knowing all too well how to run, either by foot or by Millennium Falcon. I thought the movie did well to keep her under wraps (so to speak) and make her expressions all too real. So who was heroic in this movie... a stand up and fight them kind of guy? Why Finn... of course. The perfect replacement for Hans, who also tried so hard in the first Star Wars to be the "I don't care, I just want to leave" kind of guy, all the while he was always at the forefront fighting someone or some thing. Back to Rey - I don't think she's Luke's daughter... but I do think she's related to the Skywalker clan somehow. I'm betting the old man in the first scene was a distant cousin or brother to Dart Vader who went underground early in life after his mother was killed and he witnessed the massacre his brother Aniken unleashed. Or at least he's a nephew of Aniken and thus Rey is his daughter and why he left his daughter on an island planet to keep her away from what he may have seen as the ultimate fate of anyone who uses the force.

4. Bo - what in the heck happened here. We meet this guy, he is cool, he escapes with FInn, and then.... he's AWOL for almost the rest of the movie until the end. WTF? And the "I was thrown off after the blast and I couldn't find you... okay, bye - bye, no time to chit chat... gotta go fight bad guys" 10 second explanation? Seriously? Is this the new genre of storytelling... as if kids nowadays can't handle being told a story the right way? *Sheesh* I think his character redeemed himself well at the end, but I was left with the impression that somehow I'm supposed to know this guy and how good he is.... basically, take it all on faith he should be the guy leading the charge. Taking a major character at the beginning of the movie and making him a minor character in the end is bad movie making. Sorry.

5. Ren/Ben - I liked this character. Somehow, the emotional outburst and trashing the room was unexpected but very welcomed. I think this character will carry the next few movies and although he'll never be Dart Vader, he'll be his own villain worthy of the Star Wars lore.

Overall impression of the movie: My wife put is best "I loved it, reminded me of the original Star Wars". I think our perspective is tainted by our own experiences standing in line as teenagers for the first ever Star Wars movie. The people behind this movie did well to say good-bye to the old and bring in the new. Nice bridge movie. Not a nice movie to stand on it's own, but a very good bridge movie with a bit of tribute to the old mixed in.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 07:56:24 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2016, 01:44:00 pm »
4. Bo - what in the heck happened here. We meet this guy, he is cool, he escapes with FInn, and then.... he's AWOL for almost the rest of the movie until the end. WTF? And the "I was thrown off after the blast and I couldn't find you... okay, bye - bye, no time to chit chat... gotta go fight bad guys" 10 second explanation? Seriously? Is this the new genre of storytelling... as if kids nowadays can't handle being told a story the right way? *Sheesh* I think his character redeemed himself well at the end, but I was left with the impression that somehow I'm supposed to know this guy and how good he is.... basically, take it all on faith he should be the guy leading the charge. Taking a major character at the beginning of the movie and making him a minor character in the end is bad movie making. Sorry.

According to this, early versions of the script had Poe Dameron dying (presumably when they crash on Jakku):
http://iwatchstuff.com/2015/12/force-awakens-star-reveals-how-they-were.php
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2016, 09:54:18 am »
Here's a theory: Rey is a Kenobi, but not how you think she is.  She's Ben's granddaughter.

There's a lot of faff in the theory, but the idea of Obi Wan's grandchild going head-to-head with Anakin's grandchild has a cosmic symmetry to it.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 10:09:03 am »
Hamill does an enormous amount of voice work.  Don't know if he's done any live acting.

He had a small part in what I thought was a really great movie a couple years ago:  Kingsman, The Secret Service

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2016, 12:18:37 pm »
He had a small part in what I thought was a really great movie a couple years ago:  Kingsman, The Secret Service

Fun movie.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 02:48:43 pm »
He had a small part in what I thought was a really great movie a couple years ago:  Kingsman, The Secret Service

I've watched the movie a few times and had no idea the professor is Hamels.
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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 04:37:06 pm »
He had a small part in what I thought was a really great movie a couple years ago:  Kingsman, The Secret Service

Just saw it recently and agree Kingsman is a terrific, terrific movie. Better (in my opinion) than any Bond flick of the last 40 years.

Hamill also has played the Trickster on the CW series The Flash. He really chews the scenery in that role but perhaps that's the way the character is written.

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Re: Star Wars VII: Spoilers Thread (You Have Been Warned)
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2016, 03:28:29 am »
Just saw it recently and agree Kingsman is a terrific, terrific movie. Better (in my opinion) than any Bond flick of the last 40 years.

Hamill also has played the Trickster on the CW series The Flash. He really chews the scenery in that role but perhaps that's the way the character is written.

Scary part is, he's less over the top than when he played the Trickster in the OLD Flash TV show.  Of course, wearing this would probably lead to being as over the top as possible:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39001/4263846-tf.png