The shift

[JimR]

I realize this management team believes in it and will keep doing it until the metrics do not favor it. A modification I would urge if I had a voice is to play a conventional DP alignment in those situations when a DP is desperately needed. That modification would have gotten us out of the 6th with a 4-3 lead.

Forgotten in all our hand-wringing over the change of fate in the 6th and 7th is the offense's going stagnant with Cueto on the ropes. Had Correa's liner to right been fair....

Ifs and buts galore

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I realize this management team believes in it and will keep doing it until the metrics do not favor it. A modification I would urge if I had a voice is to play a conventional DP alignment in those situations when a DP is desperately needed. That modification would have gotten us out of the 6th with a 4-3 lead.

I totally agree, and hope they are working their analytical model that direction. Sometimes the next evolutionary step appears to be a step back.

[OregonStrosFan]

I totally agree, and hope they are working their analytical model that direction. Sometimes the next evolutionary step appears to be a step back.

Agreed as well. Another thing I 'think' I'd like to see taken into account more is the fielders relative ranges. I don't know how much this is taken into account currently, but having Valbuena/Correa/Altuve all between 2B and 3B would seem to cause more overlap between Altuve and Correa than reasonably necessary to meet the impetus of the shift... My $0.02 anyway...

[NeilT]

It occurs to me that there's always been big shifts in the infield, but they're in and out, not left and right.

[Aussie Astro]

I realize this management team believes in it and will keep doing it until the metrics do not favor it. A modification I would urge if I had a voice is to play a conventional DP alignment in those situations when a DP is desperately needed. That modification would have gotten us out of the 6th with a 4-3 lead.

Forgotten in all our hand-wringing over the change of fate in the 6th and 7th is the offense's going stagnant with Cueto on the ropes. Had Correa's liner to right been fair....

Ifs and buts galore

If you adopt the shift on account of the metrics, I think you have to go all in.  If you abandon the shift because of circumstances, does that mean you don't really believe the metrics?  If you go for the shift and it  doesn't work, you can always justify what you have done by the numbers, don't shift when you would normally but allow  the circumstances to influence your decision you have a better chance of looking like a dill.  Sydney or the bush...

[NeilT]

If you adopt the shift on account of the metrics, I think you have to go all in.  If you abandon the shift because of circumstances, does that mean you don't really believe the metrics?  If you go for the shift and it  doesn't work, you can always justify what you have done by the numbers, don't shift when you would normally but allow  the circumstances to influence your decision you have a better chance of looking like a dill.  Sydney or the bush...

Thinking more about shifts in, or shifts out,  you use them when? To reduce the chance of a runner at third when the.games on the line, or at the corners if a bunt's likely. Do you shift out to increase the likelihood of a double play?  Odd that I don't know. I guess the difference from lateral shifts is that they're based on a batters probabilities. I'd guess they help a pitcher like Keuchel's the most, where control is such a big part of the game.  Either way, sometimes you get beat.

[HudsonHawk]

If you adopt the shift on account of the metrics, I think you have to go all in.  If you abandon the shift because of circumstances, does that mean you don't really believe the metrics?  If you go for the shift and it  doesn't work, you can always justify what you have done by the numbers, don't shift when you would normally but allow  the circumstances to influence your decision you have a better chance of looking like a dill.  Sydney or the bush...

You have to remember that traditional defensive positioning is based on "metrics" too.  I don't think it'd be accurate to say you've abandoned the metric-driven approach if it's situationally dependent.

[Aussie Astro]

Thinking more about shifts in, or shifts out,  you use them when? To reduce the chance of a runner at third when the.games on the line, or at the corners if a bunt's likely. Do you shift out to increase the likelihood of a double play?  Odd that I don't know. I guess the difference from lateral shifts is that they're based on a batters probabilities. I'd guess they help a pitcher like Keuchel's the most, where control is such a big part of the game.  Either way, sometimes you get beat.

You are right about that, it wont work all the time.  If you shift and get the result you want you are a genius, if not...

[Aussie Astro]

You have to remember that traditional defensive positioning is based on "metrics" too.  I don't think it'd be accurate to say you've abandoned the metric-driven approach if it's situationally dependent.

Ok, I take your point.  I have never really been a student of the game and when it comes to the shift, well sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.  If the formula says that a guy hits left or right against a certain type of pitching and we would 'normally' shift, does that change because a DP is in order and/or we need it real bad?  Are the metrics that advanced?  For me, it is more about sticking with what works, if I used a tactic for 162 games and had decent results, I am not should I would change from what has worked.  Has the shift worked for us this year?

[JimR]

Ok, I take your point.  I have never really been a student of the game and when it comes to the shift, well sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.  If the formula says that a guy hits left or right against a certain type of pitching and we would 'normally' shift, does that change because a DP is in order and/or we need it real bad?  Are the metrics that advanced?  For me, it is more about sticking with what works, if I used a tactic for 162 games and had decent results, I am not should I would change from what has worked.  Has the shift worked for us this year?

That is the question, and I suppose they will have stats to determine it. Mark and I disagreed on this point yesterday, but I absolutely hate leaving an entire side of the infield open when we desperately need a DP. Ground balls will always find holes, but this is a chasm.

[NeilT]

That is the question, and I suppose they will have stats to determine it. Mark and I disagreed on this point yesterday, but I absolutely hate leaving an entire side of the infield open when we desperately need a DP. Ground era will always find holes, but this is a chasm.

It just looks completely wrong, like you've left an entire city undefended and the tartars are coming.

[JimR]

It just looks completely wrong, like you've left an entire city undefended and the tartars are coming.

Totally agree.

[WakePhil]

I would have to imagine they have considered the value of each potential out, but that's a really good question. I can see both sides. Would be interesting to see how the Astros evaluated.

[believin]

It just looks completely wrong, like you've left an entire city undefended and the tartars are coming.

Wait, does this mean it's fish and chips this week instead of Frito pie?
I'm confused.