Author Topic: Starting pitching (Read 7728 times)

toddthebod · « **on:** August 13, 2015, 11:24:40 am »

Out of curiosity, what do you see the Astros doing next season. The Astros have Keuchel, McHugh, Feldman, and Fiers, and I assume that they are going to make a run at Kazmir.

So what do they do with McCullers, Velasquez, and Appel?

and why is Peacock still on the team? He sucked when he was healthy.

moriartp · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:41:12 am »

Between injuries and regression, some of those options won't end up as reliable starters next season. Sign Kazmir (knock on wood), keep the depth, and let the talent decide the rest.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:43:26 am »

I'd assume that at least two of those names could end up in the bullpen. Perhaps Fiers as a long reliever or Velasquez as closer.

juliogotay · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:44:26 am »

Does anyone know if Feldman is under contract next year? He has pitched very well the last two starts.

ValpoCory · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:52:31 am »

Quote from: juliogotay on August 13, 2015, 11:44:26 am

Does anyone know if Feldman is under contract next year? He has pitched very well the last two starts.

Bookmark this page: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-west/houston-astros/

Quote

Scott Feldman rhp
3 years/$30M (2014-16)

3 years/$30M (2014-16)
signed by Houston as a free agent 12/6/13
14:$12M, 15:$10M, 16:$8M

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2015, 12:08:34 pm »

Quote from: GreatBagwellsBeard on August 13, 2015, 11:43:26 am

or Velasquez as closer.

I sure hope not. I want him as a starter.

subnuclear · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2015, 12:28:56 pm »

Peacock was a viable #4 or #5 before McCullers and Velasquez came up. Now its pretty crowded.

toddthebod · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2015, 12:32:58 pm »

I also don't want these guys as closers or long relievers.

Feldman might be an attractive trade option as his contract was front-loaded.

Depth is great, but I didn't even mention Straily, Oberholtzer, and Wojo.

juliogotay · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:16:28 pm »

Quote from: toddthebod on August 13, 2015, 12:32:58 pm

I also don't want these guys as closers or long relievers.

Feldman might be an attractive trade option as his contract was front-loaded.

Depth is great, but I didn't even mention Straily, Oberholtzer, and Wojo.

I think Wojo and Straily have limited opportunity at this point in Houston. Obie? I think he can pitch in the MLs but don't know if it will be here. May depend on what happens with Kazmir.

pots · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:19:08 pm »

With Kazmir, it comes down to how much and for how long. His tremendous roller coaster ride career has placed him in an odd position of having just delivered 2 consecutive amazing years at the age of 30 and 31.

So at 32 he's looking at receiving his biggest pay day. If say the Yankees throw 4 years 90 million at him, I don't think the Astros should compete.

juliogotay · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:30:36 pm »

Quote from: pots on August 13, 2015, 01:19:08 pm

With Kazmir, it comes down to how much and for how long. His tremendous roller coaster ride career has placed him in an odd position of having just delivered 2 consecutive amazing years at the age of 30 and 31.

So at 32 he's looking at receiving his biggest pay day. If say the Yankees throw 4 years 90 million at him, I don't think the Astros should compete.

The Yankees will probably be shooting higher with Price on the market but, yeah, that would change the dynamics.

juliogotay · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:31:34 pm »

Quote from: ValpoCory on August 13, 2015, 11:52:31 am

Bookmark this page: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-west/houston-astros/

I could have sworn this was Feldmans' 3rd year in Houston.

pots · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:42:30 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on August 13, 2015, 01:30:36 pm

The Yankees will probably be shooting higher with Price on the market but, yeah, that would change the dynamics.

True, but 4 yr 90 million isn't going to get you a response from the Price camp.

Andyzipp · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2015, 02:51:09 pm »

McCullers is a starter now (rest notwithstanding) and in 2016. Not sure what would make you think otherwise.

Feldman is expendable from the rotation.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2015, 03:19:08 pm »

Quote from: Andyzipp on August 13, 2015, 02:51:09 pm

McCullers is a starter now (rest notwithstanding) and in 2016. Not sure what would make you think otherwise.

Feldman is expendable from the rotation.

No kidding. In what universe is McCullers not the #2 or #3 starter next season?

Jacksonian · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2015, 03:32:30 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 13, 2015, 03:19:08 pm

No kidding. In what universe is McCullers not the #2 or #3 starter next season?

Amen. Given what's happened this year I would think it's Keuchel, McCullers, and who knows. I could see Luhnow making deals involving the rest of the guys except Appel. I'd bet Appel is the #5 or #4 guy next year given the time, money, and energy they've put into his career.

Duman · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2015, 03:58:47 pm »

I expect Feldman will be traded this off season. His contract was structured to make him easier to trade. He will be a bargain at 8 million next year.

juliogotay · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2015, 04:04:36 pm »

Fiers could be a very movable asset with a few years left on his deal.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2015, 05:33:19 pm »

There has been some talk of a 6 man rotation. Would they consider some sort of tandem the 1st month or 2 to keep innings down? Keuchel, Kazmir, McCullers/Velasquez , McHugh, Feldman....

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2015, 05:51:26 pm »

For those interested, the Luhnow show starts in 10 minutes, 6pm-7pm on 790AM in Houston. Can listen online here: http://www.sports790.com/main.html

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:01:27 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on August 13, 2015, 05:33:19 pm

There has been some talk of a 6 man rotation. Would they consider some sort of tandem the 1st month or 2 to keep innings down? Keuchel, Kazmir, McCullers/Velasquez , McHugh, Feldman....

That sounds like an awful idea. Guys need to pitch more than that.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2015, 07:12:43 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 13, 2015, 06:01:27 pm

That sounds like an awful idea. Guys need to pitch more than that.

+1

doyce7 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 13, 2015, 07:14:31 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 13, 2015, 06:01:27 pm

That sounds like an awful idea. Guys need to pitch more than that.

Would be a waste of a bullpen spot and roster spot for that matter. This is the big leagues.

juliogotay · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2015, 07:54:00 pm »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on August 13, 2015, 05:51:26 pm

For those interested, the Luhnow show starts in 10 minutes, 6pm-7pm on 790AM in Houston. Can listen online here: http://www.sports790.com/main.html

Did you listen? Any good stuff?

subnuclear · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2015, 08:00:31 pm »

I listened to the last 20 minutes or so (Thanks for posting). He expects Moran and Reed to be big leaguers within the coming years. Appel is pitching with an eye towards next year and he has improved a lot is nearly ready. There are a lot of off days coming up so he is not sure when McCullers will come back up because he wants to maintain some of the pitchers on their 6 day schedules. The international money in Gomez/Fiers trade was because the scouts thought they should sign more international players beyond cap.

juliogotay · « **Reply #25 on:** August 13, 2015, 08:29:41 pm »

Quote from: subnuclear on August 13, 2015, 08:00:31 pm

I listened to the last 20 minutes or so (Thanks for posting). He expects Moran and Reed to be big leaguers within the coming years. Appel is pitching with an eye towards next year and he has improved a lot is nearly ready. There are a lot of off days coming up so he is not sure when McCullers will come back up because he wants to maintain some of the pitchers on their 6 day schedules. The international money in Gomez/Fiers trade was because the scouts thought they should sign more international players beyond cap.

Thanks Sub.

hostros7 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2015, 09:53:47 pm »

Also, I only heard snippets, but he gave the impression he might be starting to think of Singleton as nothing more than an AAAA player, although that's me reading between the lines.

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VirtualBob · « **Reply #27 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:29:59 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 13, 2015, 03:19:08 pm

No kidding. In what universe is McCullers not the #2 or #3 starter next season?

The one where he is #1 and Keuchel is #2? Experience deserves respect, but McCullers is still figuring things out and the results are pretty similar. By 2017 he is at least a candidate to be the staff ace. And I am a long-time Keuchel admirer, too.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:40:26 pm »

Quote from: VirtualBob on August 13, 2015, 10:29:59 pm

The one where he is #1 and Keuchel is #2? Experience deserves respect, but McCullers is still figuring things out and the results are pretty similar. By 2017 he is at least a candidate to be the staff ace. And I am a long-time Keuchel admirer, too.

Well, 2017 isn't next season, and I thought we were talking about the thinking this off season. That said, if McCullers ends up being the pitcher on the staff, all the better.

MusicMan · « **Reply #29 on:** August 14, 2015, 07:36:36 am »

Quote from: hostros7 on August 13, 2015, 09:53:47 pm

Also, I only heard snippets, but he gave the impression he might be starting to think of Singleton as nothing more than an AAAA player, although that's me reading between the lines.

The sample size is getting hard to ignore.

jbm · « **Reply #30 on:** August 14, 2015, 07:48:23 am »

Really? 44 ABs, the last 16 of which his OPS was 963 with some solid defense at first. I guess it is how one looks at it.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #31 on:** August 14, 2015, 08:03:38 am »

Quote from: jbm on August 14, 2015, 07:48:23 am

Really? 44 ABs, the last 16 of which his OPS was 963 with some solid defense at first. I guess it is how one looks at it.

He has 415 Major League plate appearances, over two seasons. He's also been playing in the minors. It's not as if the Astros haven't seen him play.

jbm · « **Reply #32 on:** August 14, 2015, 08:15:33 am »

Thanks, I hadn't realized he was on the team before his 44 ABs which now make his sample size hard to ignore.

MusicMan · « **Reply #33 on:** August 14, 2015, 11:12:21 am »

Quote from: jbm on August 14, 2015, 08:15:33 am

Thanks, I hadn't realized he was on the team before his 44 ABs which now make his sample size hard to ignore.

Also a full season this year of struggling with AAA lefties.

Reuben · « **Reply #34 on:** August 14, 2015, 11:33:38 am »

Quote from: MusicMan on August 14, 2015, 11:12:21 am

Also a full season this year of struggling with AAA lefties.

And murdering AAA righties.

I'm not going to say I'm 100% convinced that Singleton is going to blossom into an All-Star, but I will say that he's had far fewer MLB at-bats than JD Martinez had with the Astros, and I believe is younger than JD was when he was let go.

hostros7 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 14, 2015, 01:05:09 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on August 14, 2015, 11:33:38 am

And murdering AAA righties.

I'm not going to say I'm 100% convinced that Singleton is going to blossom into an All-Star, but I will say that he's had far fewer MLB at-bats than JD Martinez had with the Astros, and I believe is younger than JD was when he was let go.

I'm not saying he's not going to blossom at some point either, but the team isn't in the same position it was when JD was around. They need production at the MLB level, and the 40 man is getting crowded with talent. The org doesn't have the "luxury" of dealing with multiple extended scuffling auditions at the MLB level anymore. I trust luhnow and the org to make the best of what will be some tough decisions.

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HudsonHawk · « **Reply #36 on:** August 14, 2015, 03:11:24 pm »

Quote from: hostros7 on August 14, 2015, 01:05:09 pm

I'm not saying he's not going to blossom at some point either, but the team isn't in the same position it was when JD was around. They need production at the MLB level, and the 40 man is getting crowded with talent. The org doesn't have the "luxury" of dealing with multiple extended scuffling auditions at the MLB level anymore. I trust luhnow and the org to make the best of what will be some tough decisions.

Exactly. This isn't the 2011-2012 Houston Astros.

kevwun · « **Reply #37 on:** August 17, 2015, 09:11:17 am »

I looked at Singleton's history vs. lefties a while back and there was really no consistent pattern of struggle there. Some years he did really well and some he didn't. He's nosedived at Fresno since being sent down, so I don't know if you can feel very confident that he may have started to figure things out before his demotion.

Reuben · « **Reply #38 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:35:56 am »

Quote from: kevwun on August 17, 2015, 09:11:17 am

I looked at Singleton's history vs. lefties a while back and there was really no consistent pattern of struggle there. Some years he did really well and some he didn't. He's nosedived at Fresno since being sent down, so I don't know if you can feel very confident that he may have started to figure things out before his demotion.

He was doing shitty vs. lefties at Fresno before his promotion.

I recognize the point above, about this being different than the 2011-12 Astros. That is fine; if Singleton isn't ready to outperform the current 1B incumbents then leave him in AAA. That's different from giving up on him completely.

kevwun · « **Reply #39 on:** August 17, 2015, 12:01:06 pm »

I meant on a yearly basis. Over the course of his career, he's done fine or even good against lefties in some seasons and in others like this one he's struggled. It hasn't been a consistent thing where he's been terrible vs lefties for his entire time in the minors. The nosedive was in regards to his hitting overall, but his numbers aren't as bad as I thought they were since the demotion. He hasn't homered though and is still striking out way too much.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #40 on:** August 17, 2015, 12:21:50 pm »

Singleton's minor league performance is completely irrelevant at this point. The point of the minor leagues is to get a guy ready for the Major League. Minor league stats and performance only matters in determining whether or not to sign a guy, promote him, release him, give him a big contract etc. Once you're in the big leagues, you have to produce at that level. Period. I really couldn't give a shit if Singleton hits .900 in AAA, how he hits with the Astros is the ONLY thing that matters. He's consistently been overwhelmed at the big league level. To act like that doesn't matter is insane.

kevwun · « **Reply #41 on:** August 17, 2015, 12:27:00 pm »

I think it looks like he's a AAAA guy. I'm not trying to convince anyone he's about to turn the corner. Just that his struggles vs lefties this season might be more likely to be a statistical anomaly than a flaw he has. On his list of issues, it's further down in the pecking order.

pots · « **Reply #42 on:** August 19, 2015, 05:08:42 pm »

McCullers to start Sunday. Wonder who gets sent down for that?

subnuclear · « **Reply #43 on:** August 19, 2015, 05:54:38 pm »

The probable pitchers for the next 5 games are:

Karns - Keuchel
Archer - McHugh
Anderson - Fiers
Grienke - Kazmir
Kershaw - McCullers

Reuben · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2015, 07:37:22 pm »

Quote from: pots on August 19, 2015, 05:08:42 pm

McCullers to start Sunday. Wonder who gets sent down for that?

I can't see any pitchers that make sense to go down. So I'm guessing they'll go back to 13 pitchers, 12 hitters. Maybe Marisnick? Or... Carter?

Ebby Calvin · « **Reply #45 on:** August 19, 2015, 10:56:50 pm »

Quote from: subnuclear on August 19, 2015, 05:54:38 pm

Grienke - Kazmir
Kershaw - McCullers

Those will be fun.

ValpoCory · « **Reply #46 on:** August 19, 2015, 11:27:37 pm »

Quote from: subnuclear on August 19, 2015, 05:54:38 pm

The probable pitchers for the next 5 games are:

Karns - Keuchel
Archer - McHugh
Anderson - Fiers
Grienke - Kazmir
Kershaw - McCullers

The Dodgers are skipping their 5th starter (Latos) to move Greinke up and Kershaw into our series.

Uncle Charlie · « **Reply #47 on:** August 20, 2015, 06:14:03 am »

Quote from: ValpoCory on August 19, 2015, 11:27:37 pm

The Dodgers are skipping their 5th starter (Latos) to move Greinke up and Kershaw into our series.

..and the Astros seem to be missing Feldman.

jbm · « **Reply #48 on:** August 20, 2015, 07:36:54 am »

Quote from: Uncle Charlie on August 20, 2015, 06:14:03 am

..and the Astros seem to be missing Feldman.

Aren't they going to a six man, which leaves Feldman next on the list?

austro · « **Reply #49 on:** August 20, 2015, 08:19:52 am »

Quote from: jbm on August 20, 2015, 07:36:54 am

Aren't they going to a six man, which leaves Feldman next on the list?

According to the telecast last night, they're going with six for at least one spin. McCullers will be coming up for the Sunday start. The real excitement will be figuring out what the move on the 25-man is to make room for him.

kevwun · « **Reply #50 on:** August 20, 2015, 08:30:53 am »

Feldman has been pitching good, they wouldn't want to skip him in the rotation right now.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #51 on:** August 20, 2015, 08:58:52 am »

Quote from: kevwun on August 20, 2015, 08:30:53 am

Feldman has been pitching good, they wouldn't want to skip him in the rotation right now.

Agreed. Getting Kazmir lit a fire under Feldman's butt it seams.

JimR · « **Reply #52 on:** August 20, 2015, 09:45:59 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 20, 2015, 08:58:52 am

Agreed. Getting Kazmir lit a fire under Feldman's butt it seams.

he has been really good the last 4-5 starts.

NeilT · « **Reply #53 on:** August 20, 2015, 09:55:21 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 20, 2015, 08:58:52 am

Agreed. Getting Kazmir lit a fire under Feldman's butt it seams.

He's been good since he came back from the DL, but I can't remember if that pre-dates Kazmir.

DVauthrin · « **Reply #54 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:15:25 am »

Quote from: NeilT on August 20, 2015, 09:55:21 am

He's been good since he came back from the DL, but I can't remember if that pre-dates Kazmir.

He returned from the DL on July 18, Kazmir made his first start as an Astro on July 24. However, Feldman's run of 5 straight starts allowing 3 runs or less began on July 25.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/6384/scott-feldman

NeilT · « **Reply #55 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:30:10 am »

Quote from: DVauthrin on August 20, 2015, 11:15:25 am

He returned from the DL on July 18, Kazmir made his first start as an Astro on July 24. However, Feldman's run of 5 straight starts allowing 3 runs or less began on July 25.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/6384/scott-feldman

Now if someone could light a fire under Kazmir.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #56 on:** August 20, 2015, 12:05:32 pm »

Quote from: NeilT on August 20, 2015, 11:30:10 am

Now if someone could light a fire under Kazmir.

Whatever got into Feldman, they need to put it in the water bucket.

Reuben · « **Reply #57 on:** August 21, 2015, 11:31:58 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on August 20, 2015, 12:05:32 pm

Whatever got into Feldman, they need to put it in the water bucket.

They make the players drink water out of a bucket now? What's wrong with a good ol' trough?