FBI Investigating Cards in Hack Job

[Nate Colbert]

NYT Article

Law enforcement officials believe the hacking was executed by vengeful front-office employees for the Cardinals hoping to wreak havoc on the work of Jeff Luhnow, the Astros’ general manager who had been a successful and polarizing executive with the Cardinals until 2011.

[BizidyDizidy]

CNBC Now ‏@CNBCnow  10m10 minutes ago

Fmr. St. Louis Cardinals scouting dir. to plead guilty to criminal charges in connection with unauthorized breach of Houston Astros - DJ

ETA: http://deadspin.com/report-ex-cardinals-executive-to-plead-guilty-to-hacki-1751842009

[juliogotay]

CNBC Now ‏@CNBCnow  10m10 minutes ago

Fmr. St. Louis Cardinals scouting dir. to plead guilty to criminal charges in connection with unauthorized breach of Houston Astros - DJ

ETA: http://deadspin.com/report-ex-cardinals-executive-to-plead-guilty-to-hacki-1751842009

That Deadspin report is interesting. The Bucs seemed to be willing at one point in trading Glasgow for Norris.

[Nate Colbert]

Nice writeup from Jeff Passan on the matter (a better analysis of what went on than what I've seen out of the Chron writers) with this intro:

"If Major League Baseball doesn't dock the Cardinals draft picks in addition to a seven-figure fine, it is not just tacitly approving the computer crimes to which Correa on Friday pleaded guilty but encouraging similar nefariousness among other teams."

Also this:

"Around the game, as the Schadenfreude reverberates, rivals temper their excitement. They fear the influence of Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr., among the game's most powerful men, will buy St. Louis lenience. This is no time for commissioner Rob Manfred to play favorites, not with the awful message it would send. The ugliness demands action beyond the norm, and if Manfred is at all balking at delivering it, he need remind himself of a single, simple sentence: One baseball team committed federal crimes against another."

[juliogotay]

Nice writeup from Jeff Passan on the matter (a better analysis of what went on than what I've seen out of the Chron writers) with this intro:

"If Major League Baseball doesn't dock the Cardinals draft picks in addition to a seven-figure fine, it is not just tacitly approving the computer crimes to which Correa on Friday pleaded guilty but encouraging similar nefariousness among other teams."

Also this:

"Around the game, as the Schadenfreude reverberates, rivals temper their excitement. They fear the influence of Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr., among the game's most powerful men, will buy St. Louis lenience. This is no time for commissioner Rob Manfred to play favorites, not with the awful message it would send. The ugliness demands action beyond the norm, and if Manfred is at all balking at delivering it, he need remind himself of a single, simple sentence: One baseball team committed federal crimes against another."

Would it not make sense to award any forfeited StL draft picks to the damaged party?

[doyce7]

Would it not make sense to award any forfeited StL draft picks to the damaged party?

I can see picks being taken away from the cards but I highly doubt the astros would get those picks. What I would like to see is the cards losing a percentage of draft pool money the next 2 years. I would love for the astros to receive that money toward they're own pool but again highly doubtful. In short, I don't think the astros will get anything of value out of this, probably just a financial settlement.

[juliogotay]

I can see picks being taken away from the cards but I highly doubt the astros would get those picks. What I would like to see is the cards losing a percentage of draft pool money the next 2 years. I would love for the astros to receive that money toward they're own pool but again highly doubtful. In short, I don't think the astros will get anything of value out of this, probably just a financial settlement.

you probably are right but I think that is wrong. One club was damaged by this. Are they not due some compensation?

[Fredia]

yes. but it is a league crossover and something i think that has never happened before. so it has to be a learning curve

[Navin R Johnson]

In next years's draft the Cardinals have picks 26, 31 & 32.  I am betting one of those is turned over to the Astros.

[Nate Colbert]

In next years's draft the Cardinals have picks 26, 31 & 32.  I am betting one of those is turned over to the Astros.

From your mouth to Bowden's ears:

"Manfred could take away the first two of those picks, a significant yet appropriate blow to the Cardinals. The 26th overall pick should be given to the Astros for damages, while the 31st pick can just be eliminated."

ESPN article

[juliogotay]

From your mouth to Bowden's ears:

"Manfred could take away the first two of those picks, a significant yet appropriate blow to the Cardinals. The 26th overall pick should be given to the Astros for damages, while the 31st pick can just be eliminated."

ESPN article

Yes, it should.

[astrosfan76]

From your mouth to Bowden's ears:

"Manfred could take away the first two of those picks, a significant yet appropriate blow to the Cardinals. The 26th overall pick should be given to the Astros for damages, while the 31st pick can just be eliminated."

ESPN article

Let them keep the 31st pick, instead take away the 32nd.  It's symbolic anyway, but I'd just rather let Cards fans stew on not even getting a pick in return for Heyward signing with the Cubs.

[Nate Colbert]

Although he ultimately says it shouldn't make a difference in terms of penalties levied, Bowden in his article does get this part wrong:

"Despite the fact he was probably a rogue employee who acted alone and, to everyone's knowledge, never told anyone what he was doing..."

That's actually contrary to what Correa said in court--he claimed that he told "co-workers" (per David Barron's reporting). And if he did find Cardinals proprietary data (as he claims), how logical would it be that he would fail to notify absolutely no one in the St. Louis organization of said "fact"?

[VirtualBob]

Let them keep the 31st pick, instead take away the 32nd.  It's symbolic anyway, but I'd just rather let Cards fans stew on not even getting a pick in return for Heyward signing with the Cubs.

By "pick" I assume they mean both the selection slot and the associated pool money? Otherwise it is dirt of meaningless.

[Jacksonian]

Although he ultimately says it shouldn't make a difference in terms of penalties levied, Bowden in his article does get this part wrong:

"Despite the fact he was probably a rogue employee who acted alone and, to everyone's knowledge, never told anyone what he was doing..."

That's actually contrary to what Correa said in court--he claimed that he told "co-workers" (per David Barron's reporting). And if he did find Cardinals proprietary data (as he claims), how logical would it be that he would fail to notify absolutely no one in the St. Louis organization of said "fact"?

Did he tell them while he was doing it?  Or after he was done doing it?

If he told them after then what Bowden wrote is correct.

[astrosfan76]

By "pick" I assume they mean both the selection slot and the associated pool money? Otherwise it is dirt of meaningless.

Yeah, they would lose the pick and the money associated with the pick would disappear from their pool.  There was a $30k difference between the #31 and #32 pick in last year's draft, so it isn't entirely a wash, but that is still pocket change when it comes to signing players in the upper rounds.  So, since they would have the pick after #30 regardless of whether they have pick #31 or #32, just let them have the Lackey pick and $30k. 

To break it down, looking at Bowden's scenario, they would go from having $5.7745M and three picks before the second round to only $1.855M and one pick before #68.  To the Cardinals, they lose two high-end picks and wipes out any chance of being creative with their pool.  Granted, I'm not holding my breath that this actually happens, but it would definitely hurt the Cardinals.

[Nate Colbert]

Sentence to be handed down today for Christopher Correa. Ex-fed prosecutor predicts a jail term of at least 3 years.

Link

[MusicMan]

Sentence to be handed down today for Christopher Correa. Ex-fed prosecutor predicts a jail term of at least 3 years.

Link

If they don't postpone it again.


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[Nate Colbert]

Sentence to be handed down today for Christopher Correa. Ex-fed prosecutor predicts a jail term of at least 3 years.

46 months is his sentence per a Mark Berman tweet.

[Bench]

46 months is his sentence per a Mark Berman tweet.

Hughes went with the USA's recommendation exactly.  That's a long time to spend in prison just to get a sports advantage.

Amazing that MLB isn't taking the act as seriously.

[Jacksonian]

Hughes went with the USA's recommendation exactly.  That's a long time to spend in prison just to get a sports advantage.

Amazing that MLB isn't taking the act as seriously.

They have been waiting for that ruling to act in kind.

[Lefty]

Hughes went with the USA's recommendation exactly.  That's a long time to spend in prison just to get a sports advantage

i know it's impossible to speculate (but why would that stop anybody) but is that in line with other corporate espionage cases?

[Bench]

i know it's impossible to speculate (but why would that stop anybody) but is that in line with other corporate espionage cases?

I assume the substance of the hack doesn't matter much to the prosecution of the crime. 

[Nate Colbert]

From the Chron article:

[Astros general counsel Giles] Kibbe, for the first time, also acknowledged that Correa's intrusions into the Astros computer system were more frequently [sic] than the instances set out in the information to which he pleaded guilty – 60 intrusions over 35 days, he said, from March 2013 through June 2014.

Referring to Correa's statements in January, he added, "I don't know what Mr. Correa saw in our system or what he thinks he saw in our system, but what I can tell you is that the Astros were not using Cardinals' proprietary information."

[HudsonHawk]

They have been waiting for that ruling to act in kind.

Manfred has already been crawfishing, stating the Cardinals acted appropriately when they found out about "one rogue employee", that it wasn't as egregious as other cases. Plus the Cardinals owner is his biggest supporter. I look for him to go pretty easy on them, probably a small fine only.

[Fredia]

hey it is the "CO-ARDS"   they are used to stealing things from the Astros

[Reuben]

hey it is the "CO-ARDS"   they are used to stealing things from the Astros

Have you been working on that one since last year?

[Lefty]

Manfred has already been crawfishing, stating the Cardinals acted appropriately when they found out about "one rogue employee",

Not sure how they can spin that anymore.

“I originally accessed, trespassed the Astros’ resources based on suspicions that they had misappropriated proprietary work from myself and my colleagues,” Correa said.

Hughes asked if he found any Cardinals information, and Correa said he did.

“Who did you tell?,” Hughes asked.

“Colleagues,” Correa said.

Hughes asked for a clarification that Correa meant colleagues at the Cardinals, and Correa confirmed that was whom he was talking about. He did not name anyone in specific, and no one else has been charged.

[WVastro]

There's also the fact that some very damaging info was "leaked":

http://deadspin.com/leaked-10-months-of-the-houston-astros-internal-trade-1597951970

Why this hasn't been the focus of attention of this whole thing is beyond me. I think it's pretty easy to say that the Cardinals benefited  from another team having their organization publicly trashed to both the public and free agents/trade targets with no-trade clauses. The focus has only been on this "rogue employee" and that he supposedly told nobody.... Bullshit.

This whole fiasco came to light after all the data Correa accessed was leaked.

[doyce7]

To me it doesn't matter whether anybody knew or not. This wasn't a janitor or ball boy. This was someone who had some real input on decisions being made. He says he was looking for stolen data or whatever, bullshit.  If that was the case then why log in 60 times? How did the leak happen? The Cardinals need to be made an example of. This can not happen.

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[WVastro]

The Cardinals need to be punished substantially. I also think the Astros should receive compensation. I hope I'm not being biased as a fan but the public dissemination of what could be embarrassing or detrimental private information seems to me at least to warrant it. Who knows? Maybe Hamels is an Astro and not a Turdbucket without all that crap.... Fuck Hamels btw.

[juliogotay]

The Cardinals need to be punished substantially. I also think the Astros should receive compensation. I hope I'm not being biased as a fan but the public dissemination of what could be embarrassing or detrimental private information seems to me at least to warrant it. Who knows? Maybe Hamels is an Astro and not a Turdbucket without all that crap.... Fuck Hamels btw.

No, Hamels wife would not allow it.  But there should be a transfer of a draft pick or something it seems.

[Navin R Johnson]

4 years in prison for this doesn't seem like the best use of our tax dollars.

From the MLB side, The Astros clearly deserve some compensation for this. 

[juliogotay]

4 years in prison for this doesn't seem like the best use of our tax dollars.

From the MLB side, The Astros clearly deserve some compensation for this.

makes sense to me.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Wartime makes strange allies.  JJdO (now in St. Louis) says the Cardinal Way is bullshit.

Which was then followed by this on Twitter:

I don't think I dealt with more racist comments in 15 years combined in Houston than the last 2 months from Cardinals fans.

[jbm]

Also saw that a Ranger's reliever wondered aloud why this guy gets prison and Hillary still roams free.  Dude is a genius.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texas-rangers/rangers/2016/07/19/rangers-jake-diekman-slams-hillary-clinton-criticizing-prison-sentence-cardinals-hacker

[Navin R Johnson]

makes sense to me.

The jail time or possible sanctions or both?

[juliogotay]

The jail time or possible sanctions or both?

I see why you are confused after re-reading my response. I only meant to comment on the competitive nature of the crime in regards to draft picks

[Nate Colbert]

Which was then followed by this on Twitter:

I don't think I dealt with more racist comments in 15 years combined in Houston than the last 2 months from Cardinals fans.

That was tweeted out last month, which Cabrera noted at the time.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

That was tweeted out last month, which Cabrera noted at the time.

Shit.  The BFIB twitter put it up again today.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Is he going to "white-collar-resort-prison," or "federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison?"

[chuck]

Is he going to "white-collar-resort-prison," or "federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison?"

Don't know but he better watch his corn hole.

[MusicMan]

Don't know but he better watch his corn hole.

"What would you do if you could get access to Ground Control?"
"Two chicks at the same time, man."

[Tom Servo]

"What would you do if you could get access to Ground Control?"
"Two chicks at the same time, man."

That's it? If you had access to Ground Control, you'd do two chicks at the same time?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

That's it? If you had access to Ground Control, you'd do two chicks at the same time?

Damn straight.  I always wanted to do that, man.  And I think if I had the ability to guess a password and a total lack of ethics,  I could hook that up, 'cause chicks dig a guy with a working knowledge of draft pool economics.

[Nate Colbert]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  40 minutes ago
Rob Manfred said MLB will decide by the end of year on punishment the #STLCards may receive for computer hacking incident involving #Astros

[juliogotay]

No rush Rob...it's only been a year and-a-half.

[HudsonHawk]

No rush Rob...it's only been a year and-a-half.

Hey...he's committed to forming a committee to explore the opportunity to draft an outline of an investigation proposal.  Eventually. 

[BUWebguy]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  40 minutes ago
Rob Manfred said MLB will decide by the end of year on punishment the #STLCards may receive for computer hacking incident involving #Astros

Complete quote:

"It will not be a next-year resolution. We are in the process of finishing up our investigation. Candidly, I wish it had gone a little faster. I wish it had gotten a little more help a little sooner from the U.S. attorney's office," Manfred said. "But the cards come up how they come up, and we're going to finish our investigation, and there will be a resolution of that during this offseason."

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17724628/commissioner-rob-manfred-cincinnati-reds-dispute-replay-rules-dubious

[Nate Colbert]

Today is the 1-year anniversary of Chris Correa pleading guilty in the hacking scheme.

Whassup, Mr. Commish?

[juliogotay]

Today is the 1-year anniversary of Chris Correa pleading guilty in the hacking scheme.

Whassup, Mr. Commish?

He was hoping you would forget about it.

[Reuben]

Not to mention...

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  40 minutes ago
Rob Manfred said MLB will decide by the end of year on punishment the #STLCards may receive for computer hacking incident involving #Astros

I guess, technically, they could have "decided" by December 31st, but just not told anyone yet.

[HudsonHawk]

He was hoping you would forget about it.

This is it.  Manfred has never had any intention of punishing the Cardinals, and he'd appreciate if you'd just kindly quit bringing it up. 

[MusicMan]

This is it.  Manfred has never had any intention of punishing the Cardinals, and he'd appreciate if you'd just kindly quit bringing it up. 

If he wants to distract people from real issues, he should join Twitter.

[austro]

If he wants to distract people from real issues, he should join Twitter.

It does make one wonder if Trump's head will explode when the Secret Service takes away his phone and he can't insult people about every perceived slight.

[chuck]

It does make one wonder if Trump's head will explode when the Secret Service takes away his phone and he can't insult people about every perceived slight.

What in the world makes you think this is going to happen?

[austro]

What in the world makes you think this is going to happen?

A guy can dream, can't he?

[astrosfan76]

Cards chairman Bill Dewitt expects the verdict to be reached by late January/early February.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/hackgate-punishment-could-come-before-spring-training/article_cbe9818d-03a7-5b45-8c25-86d71f4e2ed3.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

[Navin R Johnson]

Did he mention of which year?

[doyce7]

In case anyone missed this and needs something to read.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.chron.com/sports/astros/amp/As-MLB-ruling-nears-new-details-of-Cardinals-10891605.php

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[astrosfan76]

In case anyone missed this and needs something to read.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.chron.com/sports/astros/amp/As-MLB-ruling-nears-new-details-of-Cardinals-10891605.php

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In light of these details (e.g. direct use of information accessed multiple times for multiple purposes), it will be hard for Manfred to not punish the Cardinals organization, regardless of what others may or may not have known. 

[Nate Colbert]

In light of these details (e.g. direct use of information accessed multiple times for multiple purposes), it will be hard for Manfred to not punish the Cardinals organization, regardless of what others may or may not have known.

Bingo.

[doyce7]

In light of these details (e.g. direct use of information accessed multiple times for multiple purposes), it will be hard for Manfred to not punish the Cardinals organization, regardless of what others may or may not have known.

My (maybe somewhat biased) opinion has always been that it doesn't matter if the gm/owner knew or not. This wasn't the equipment manager or minor league coach. This is someone who had the ability to use info to better his organizations state and his position within that organization. 

I've seen many people say "there's no proof that the Cardinals gained anything." It should not matter if they used the info or not, the point is they COULD use it.

I hope that the commish hits them hard, as he should. This cannot happen. Period.

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[astrosfan76]

My (maybe somewhat biased) opinion has always been that it doesn't matter if the gm/owner knew or not. This wasn't the equipment manager or minor league coach. This is someone who had the ability to use info to better his organizations state and his position within that organization. 

I've seen many people say "there's no proof that the Cardinals gained anything." It should not matter if they used the info or not, the point is they COULD use it.

I hope that the commish hits them hard, as he should. This cannot happen. Period.

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Well, their argument can be tossed out the window, at this point.  There's a definite link between information that was stolen and players that they selected.  Whether that information was just used to confirm or to inform their decision has no bearing.  Would Marco Gonzales have lasted another 21 picks until our second selection, thus directly stealing a pick from us?  Probably not, but that's irrelevant. 

I'm really not sure what an appropriate penalty should be.  I would hope that we receive compensation in the form of a player, most likely draft (though an argument could be made for Gonzales).  Unless we're talking about a huge fine (>$5M), I just don't see money as being a big enough deterrent. 

[MusicMan]

I thought I recalled there was a limit as to how much the commissioner could fine them.


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[Nate Colbert]

I thought I recalled there was a limit as to how much the commissioner could fine them.

$2MM, I believe.

[juliogotay]

$2MM, I believe.

Says who? The commissioner?

[Nate Colbert]

Says who? The commissioner?

Caps on fines specified in Article II, Section 3 of the MLB Constitution.

[Duman]

With the cards already losing their top draft pick by signing Fowler, I am not sure a 2nd round pick loss is enough compensation, unless they add a fine to that.  So total loss would be 2nd round pick & bonus money allotted, plus 2 million fine.  Would that be enough?

[HudsonHawk]

MLB is not going to punish the Cardinals. Manfred is just hoping people forget about the whole deal.

[Jacksonian]

MLB is not going to punish the Cardinals. Manfred is just hoping people forget about the whole deal.

The judge unsealing important information at the final hour isn't helping him.

[MusicMan]

Buster Olney has execs sharing their ideas of appropriate punishment:

"If you take away their [international] pool for next year, and their first-round pick in 2018," one evaluator said, "that would send a message."

Another: "Half of their pool money [for international signings], the top of their draft for a couple of years."

A third: "High draft picks, and [even] if that means they dig into the 2018 draft, because [the Cardinals] they have to lose something. It has to have an impact."


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[juliogotay]

Buster Olney has execs sharing their ideas of appropriate punishment:

"If you take away their [international] pool for next year, and their first-round pick in 2018," one evaluator said, "that would send a message."

Another: "Half of their pool money [for international signings], the top of their draft for a couple of years."

A third: "High draft picks, and [even] if that means they dig into the 2018 draft, because [the Cardinals] they have to lose something. It has to have an impact."


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I wonder if these execs see the lost picks being simply forfeited or awarded to the Astros? It seems the damaged party would stand for some retribution from the scoundrels. And would the Astros consider civil action against the St Louis baseball club?

[Navin R Johnson]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago

MLB reaches decision on hacking scandal: #STLCards must award top two picks (Nos. 56, 75) to #Astros and pay $2M fine to HOU as well.

[Navin R Johnson]

I can't believe they were that hard on the Cardinals.  They earned it, but just assumed that MLB would wimp out.

[Lefty]

And would the Astros consider civil action against the St Louis baseball club?

I'm pretty sure the MLB bylaws prohibit that.

[WVastro]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago

MLB reaches decision on hacking scandal: #STLCards must award top two picks (Nos. 56, 75) to #Astros and pay $2M fine to HOU as well.

About damn time. Suck it Co-ards. I hope Luhnow comes up big with one or both of these picks, although the $$ pool he'll have to work with now will make things interesting regardless.

[MusicMan]

I'm pleasantly surprised   I figured they would forfeit the picks, not actually transfer them to the Astros.


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[Navin R Johnson]

Christopher Crawford ‏@Crawford_MILB 9m9 minutes ago

WIth pick 56 and 75 added, Astros gain right around $1.8 million in draft funds. Cardinals (obviously) lose that amount. Big.

[Mike S.]

From the St. Louis paper:

www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/mlb-hammers-cardinals-first-two-draft-picks-million-go-to/article_bfe37c71-a48c-57be-98ed-1c5dec2eee93.html

[Mr. Happy]

I can't believe they were that hard on the Cardinals.  They earned it, but just assumed that MLB would wimp out.

The commissioner flexed his muscles here.

[MusicMan]

Christopher Crawford ‏@Crawford_MILB 9m9 minutes ago

WIth pick 56 and 75 added, Astros gain right around $1.8 million in draft funds. Cardinals (obviously) lose that amount. Big.

So, essentially, the Cards have to pay the bonuses for those 2 picks.


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[BudGirl]

So, essentially, the Cards have to pay the bonuses for those 2 picks.


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I think they should have given the astros the 2 picks, the money for those picks, and the the fine.  The fine should be separate from the picks.

[jbm]

I'm pleasantly surprised   I figured they would forfeit the picks, not actually transfer them to the Astros.


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Me too.  Kudos to MLB

[moriartp]

Seeing some reaction on Twitter that the penalty was light. I'm surprised there was a substantial penalty at all, and I'm stunned that the Astros actually got compensation. I'm happy with it.

[chuck]

That'll leave a mark.

[MusicMan]

I'm thinking the Jakes had at least a strong inkling they'd lose the pick anyway when they decided to sign Fowler.


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[chuck]

I would love to hear some of the So, what are you in for? conversations that the others strike up with Correa out in the rec yard.

[Duman]

Losing draft picks in baseball isn't quite the same as in football or basketball.  I just did a quick look back over the Astros history.  They have never had the all their players drafted in the first three rounds make it to the pros.  The two times they had 100% make it were 2007 when they lost their # 1 & #2 picks and their #3 made it but not with the astros so he didn't sign.  The other was 2003 when they had no #1 but #2 & #3 made it but #2 was Stubbs who didn't sign with the Astros.  So no real 100% drafts. 

There were 7 drafts were none of the players drafted in the top 3 rounds made it to the majors (72, 73, 81, 99, 06, 09, 13 so far anyway but two were traded away).

The worst was 91.  The Astros had 8, yes 8 picks in the first three rounds.  Only one player made it to MLB.  That was John Burke with a career war of -0.5.  So yeah, that draft sucked.

So I don't know how much it hurts the Cards but I think it helps the Astros because the more picks you get, normally the more chance you have of finding a solid player. 

The Astros had a good run in 10 (3/5), 11 (2/3) and 12 (3/4) and have already had 1 each make it from 14 & 15.

So this year, the Astros will have 5 picks in the first three rounds.  They have had that # in 89 (4/5), 94 (4/5), 05 (3/5), 08 (2/5), 10 (3/5) and 15 (1/5 so far).  If they can get 3 out of the 5 to the bigs, it will be a successful draft.

[Lefty]

I would love to hear some of the So, what are you in for? conversations that the others strike up with Correa out in the rec yard.

I'm sure all the other white-collar criminals he'll be locked up with will have equally fascinating stories.

[ValpoCory]

I'm thinking the Jakes had at least a strong inkling they'd lose the pick anyway when they decided to sign Fowler.

Agreed.  But on the other hand, I bet MLB countered, as I doubt the Astros would have been awarded 2 picks had St. Louis still had their 1st rounder.

[ValpoCory]

Astros current Top 3 round draft slots:

1st round -- #15 overall
2nd round -- #53 and #56** overall
Competitive Balance Round B -- #75** overall
3rd round -- #91 overall

** -- From St. Louis

[Mike S.]

One national writer feels the Cards got off easy (echoing a few of the comments others made upthread regarding a possible intuition by the Cardinals as to a pending punishment).  I tend to agree with his assessment:

http://www.espn.com/blog/st-louis-cardinals/post/_/id/2828/cardinals-get-off-light-with-hacking-scandal-penalties

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

After years of getting fucked over by Bud Selig, the penalty is more than I expected.

[toddthebod]

Considering how low my expectations were, this seems pretty good to me. 

[Reuben]

I assume most here saw that Chris Correa renewed his accusations about the Astros stealing proprietary material from the Cards. Did anyone else kinda go "Hmmmm" that Manfred's statement responding to that didn't really dismiss the possibility?

[doyce7]

I assume most here saw that Chris Correa renewed his accusations about the Astros stealing proprietary material from the Cards. Did anyone else kinda go "Hmmmm" that Manfred's statement responding to that didn't really dismiss the possibility?

He also said that he told coworkers about the hacking. I feel like he is just trying to justify his actions and maybe take someone else down with him.

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[BlownRanger]

Losing draft picks in baseball isn't quite the same as in football or basketball.  I just did a quick look back over the Astros history.  They have never had the all their players drafted in the first three rounds make it to the pros.  The two times they had 100% make it were 2007 when they lost their # 1 & #2 picks and their #3 made it but not with the astros so he didn't sign.  The other was 2003 when they had no #1 but #2 & #3 made it but #2 was Stubbs who didn't sign with the Astros.  So no real 100% drafts. 

There were 7 drafts were none of the players drafted in the top 3 rounds made it to the majors (72, 73, 81, 99, 06, 09, 13 so far anyway but two were traded away).

The worst was 91.  The Astros had 8, yes 8 picks in the first three rounds.  Only one player made it to MLB.  That was John Burke with a career war of -0.5.  So yeah, that draft sucked.

So I don't know how much it hurts the Cards but I think it helps the Astros because the more picks you get, normally the more chance you have of finding a solid player. 

The Astros had a good run in 10 (3/5), 11 (2/3) and 12 (3/4) and have already had 1 each make it from 14 & 15.

So this year, the Astros will have 5 picks in the first three rounds.  They have had that # in 89 (4/5), 94 (4/5), 05 (3/5), 08 (2/5), 10 (3/5) and 15 (1/5 so far).  If they can get 3 out of the 5 to the bigs, it will be a successful draft.

Baseball talent projection seems to be way harder than football and basketball.  The draft has been around for a little over 50 years, and Ken Griffey Jr. was the first overall #1 pick to make the Hall of Fame.

[juliogotay]

Baseball talent projection seems to be way harder than football and basketball.  The draft has been around for a little over 50 years, and Ken Griffey Jr. was the first overall #1 pick to make the Hall of Fame.

Interesting stat. Very surprising.

[MusicMan]

Baseball talent projection seems to be way harder than football and basketball.  The draft has been around for a little over 50 years, and Ken Griffey Jr. was the first overall #1 pick to make the Hall of Fame.

And Chipper will surely be the second.

[Fredia]

i remember the days of the atl fans scurrying about like roaches and the call of larry larry larry
oh the good old days