Conger Acquired via Trade

[hostros7]

Houston Astros ‏@astros  6m6 minutes ago
The #Astros have officially acquired C Hank Conger from the Angels in exchange for C Carlos Perez and RHP Nick Tropeano.

[Jacksonian]

That can't be the end of it.

[hostros7]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart  9m9 minutes ago
Luhnow said Castro is the No. 1 catcher and will remain that way. Conger the backup. He said Corporan still in the mix. Could carry three.

[Bench]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart  3m3 minutes ago
Hank Conger twitter is @PandaCrusher35

[geezerdonk]

That's pretty steep for a backup catcher, especially if he is going to share time with Corporan. They spent all this time developing Tropeano and then use him to acquire a bench player.

[jbm]

Seems like a head scratcher.  Is Conger even equal to Corporan?

[Nate Colbert]

Perhaps allows some flexibility in giving Castro some playing time at 1B if Singleton is sent out?

[drew corleone]

Damn, I had high hopes for Nitro.

[Jacksonian]

Seems like a head scratcher.  Is Conger even equal to Corporan?

From an offensive production standpoint they are the same. Corporan is 4 years older.

[mrpink]

Damn, I had high hopes for Nitro.

Me too.  I sure hope there's more to this story.

[hostros7]

I expected the team to deal some MiLB pitching depth. . . but not for a back-up catcher.  Expect that there is more to this from one angle or another.

[Jacksonian]

Brian McTaggart ‏@brianmctaggart  9m9 minutes ago
Luhnow said Castro is the No. 1 catcher and will remain that way. Conger the backup. He said Corporan still in the mix. Could carry three.

Interesting there is no mention of Stassi.

[mrpink]

I see that BP has Conger ranked third among all catchers last year in runs prevented due to pitch framing.  I'm willing to bet this stat is of some importance to a front office that hired Mike Fast.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667331

I'm curious about Stassi too.  Did his subpar 2014 hurt his stock that much?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Frees up one more spot on the 40 man roster.

[Jacksonian]

I see that BP has Conger ranked third among all catchers last year in runs prevented due to pitch framing.  I'm willing to bet this stat is of some importance to a front office that hired Mike Fast.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667331

I'm curious about Stassi too.  Did his subpar 2014 hurt his stock that much?

You can't just play defense. You also have to hit. (Unless you're a pitcher.) Even after his bad year Castro is still a much better hitter than Conger.

Still it doesn't make sense on the surface to deal a AAA to backup catcher and what looked liked a 4-5 starting pitcher for a backup catcher.

[Jacksonian]

Frees up one more spot on the 40 man roster.

They had, quite literally, just added Perez to the 40-man.

[roadrunner]

I wouldn't be surprised if Castro was traded this offseason.

[jbm]

Pitch framing aside, I never heard Conger portrayed as much of a defender.

[toddthebod]

I wouldn't be surprised if Castro was traded this offseason.

That is the only way i can make sense of this trade.

[Nate Colbert]

I see that BP has Conger ranked third among all catchers last year in runs prevented due to pitch framing.  I'm willing to bet this stat is of some importance to a front office that hired Mike Fast.

And his overall defensive skills rated high enough that voters ranked him 7th among catchers in this year's Fielding Bible Awards.

[jbm]

That is the only way i can make sense of this trade.

How so?  Wouldn't the acquisition have to be a clear improvement over Castro if they were set to trade him?

[hostros7]

Also, I temporarily forgot that the Astros and Angels are actually in the same division, which makes this all the more perplexing. 

[mrpink]

You can't just play defense. You also have to hit. (Unless you're a pitcher.) Even after his bad year Castro is still a much better hitter than Conger.

Still it doesn't make sense on the surface to deal a AAA to backup catcher and what looked liked a 4-5 starting pitcher for a backup catcher.

Oh I agree completely.  Conger's hit well at every level of the minors, perhaps Luhnow sees a guy they can turn around with a different organizational approach?

On the other hand, maybe this is just a ploy to attract those Korean players Nate's talking about.

[Matt]

Oh I agree completely.  Conger's hit well at every level of the minors, perhaps Luhnow sees a guy they can turn around with a different organizational approach?

On the other hand, maybe this is just a ploy to attract those Korean players Nate's talking about.

I think it'll take more than a gyopo bench player to attract some of the Korean players. You're gonna need kimchi too and lots of it.

[OregonStrosFan]

That can't be the end of it.

No kidding... Wow.

[jbm]

And his overall defensive skills rated high enough that voters ranked him 7th among catchers in this year's Fielding Bible Awards.

I don't have any opinion on this, but in my quick google of Conger and defense I came across an article where it was a major victory in spring of 2013 when he made three successful throws to infielders during a game: two attempts to throw runners out at second and a pickoff at first.  He apparently had some Steve Sax deal going on.

I suspect the "experts" at your link heavily weighed the framing stuff, however significant that might or might not be to overall defensive skill.  

[juliogotay]

Sparks always called him a hit-first guy with substandard defensive skills.

[juliogotay]

Damn, I had high hopes for Nitro.

Seems to me like he could have stabilized the back end of Astros rotation next year.

[juliogotay]

Frees up one more spot on the 40 man roster.

There may be more 2-1 deals because of the problem of the 40man. Actually, this could be a 3-1 on the 40 man if Corporan gets released.

[roadrunner]

Maybe there is a Castro + Fowler deal in play for Jean Segura, and Russell Martin is going to be signed to be the starting catcher.

I dunno, but we have a ways to go before Opening day.  At this point I'm ok with Luhnow trading fringe prospects (or legit prospects, for that matter) in exchange for pieces to help the 2015 major league team.  You can argue that having Tropeano is better for the 2015 Astros than having Conger, but it doesn't appear that Luhnow thinks so.  

[NeilT]

Frankly I'm stumped.  Conger was never a Cardinal or a Snake.

[jbm]

There may be more 2-1 deals because of the problem of the 40man. Actually, this could be a 3-1 on the 40 man if Corporan gets released.

I just can't see a real "problem" on the 40 man.  There are marginal players there.

[Jose Cruz III]

I expect Castro is a hot commodity on the trade market with the lack of catchers in the free agent pool. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he has been traded any day.

[Reuben]

I expect Castro is a hot commodity on the trade market with the lack of catchers in the free agent pool. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he has been traded any day.

Hell, I'd be surprised if he's not traded this winter. They clearly like Conger a lot, and they probably still like Stassi a fair bit too (though he'll probably spend most of the year in AAA). Lots of teams that don't sign Russell Martin might be interested in Castro.

[juliogotay]

I just can't see a real "problem" on the 40 man.  There are marginal players there.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/ask-ba-astros-facing-offseason-40-man-crunch/

[subnuclear]

Hank Conger in Action.

[Nate in IA]

Hank Conger in Action.

I knew there had to be more to it.. the guy is dynamite!

[chuck]

It's pretty clear they're going to trade Castro (good move) and let Conger, Stassi, Pena and maybe Corporan sort it out among themselves. However it shakes down they'll get better defensively and there shouldn't be any noticeable offensive decline.

I would imagine they already have several tentative deals in place for Castro. If Russell Martin is the top prize in this offseason's catcher sweepstakes then Castro should fetch the team quite a return, maybe a corner infielder who doesn't suck.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Hank Conger in Action.

That is one of the best GIFs ever.

[austro]

That is one of the best GIFs ever.

That made my morning.

[Duman]

He has also had training with Domingo Ayala.

[Nate in IA]

He has also had training with Domingo Ayala.

lmao...

[NeilT]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/trade-central-astros-send-tropeano-perez-angels-conger/

Baseball America trade analysis.

[Texifornia]

That is one of the best GIFs ever.

Truly a GIF that keeps on giving.

[VirtualBob]

They had, quite literally, just added Perez to the 40-man.

That was clearly a move made with the trade in mind.  Makes LAA use a 40-man slot.

[VirtualBob]

Pitch framing aside, I never heard Conger portrayed as much of a defender.

He sure does not have good caught stealing stats.  This really is a puzzlement.

[pots]

Yeah I don't get this trade at all.  Trop's WHIP at AAA started with a 0 this year.  It's AAA but the PCL is a hitters league.  He seemed he had a real decent chance at being a good middle of the rotation guy.  Really puzzling.  I get you want to make moves to free up 40 man slots but this seems like a lopsided trade.  Even without the Perez addition.  You are trading a good young pitcher with 6 years of club control for a good backup catcher with 2 years of club control.  Just an insane looking price to pay.  And then tossed in Perez.  

[geezerdonk]

If you don't need J. D. Martinez in the outfield, you don't need Tropeano in the rotation.

[Reuben]

He sure does not have good caught stealing stats.  This really is a puzzlement.

No, but he does only have 3 career passed balls, or 1 every 600 innings. Compared to Castro, who led the AL this year with 11 and has allowed 1 every 82 innings in his career. Their CS stats are about the same. On the other hand, Conger has been error-prone.

[VirtualBob]

No, but he does only have 3 career passed balls, or 1 every 600 innings. Compared to Castro, who led the AL this year with 11 and has allowed 1 every 82 innings in his career. Their CS stats are about the same. On the other hand, Conger has been error-prone.

Most of the guys already in the Astros system, though ... including Perez, have pretty strong CS%.  I suspect that the current brain trust understands this stuff better than I do, so this is not a criticism ... just very puzzling.

[roadrunner]

I love how much attention and analysis a trade for a backup catcher is getting.

[VirtualBob]

I love how much attention and analysis a trade for a backup catcher is getting.

It's not the for - it's the trade  of ... Giving up Tropeano for ?

[subnuclear]

Tropeano looked like a valuable pitcher to me.

[Reuben]

I love how much attention and analysis a trade for a backup catcher is getting.

Have you looked at the calendar lately? It's either bitch/rant/overanalyze/moan about this or the new assistant hitting coach.

[roadrunner]

Have you looked at the calendar lately? It's either bitch/rant/overanalyze/moan about this or the new assistant hitting coach.

My comment was half serious.  It's just nice to have real discussion.

[pots]

The thing about losing Tropeano is some of us have been following these guys closely.  Tropeano busted out on the scene when he added a few miles per hour on his fastball his first full year.  Always having a devastating change up the improved speed on his fastball made his changeup even better.  In his second year he regressed a little, causing many to think he was toping out.  But he put it all together this year at AAA and absolutely dominated.  His cup of coffee at the major leagues was decent.  No reason to think he wouldn't have settled in to being a good starter for the conceivable future.  And then WHAM, he's traded for a good backup catcher.   Just doesn't make sense.   The thing that makes Tropeano good is his tenacity and constant strive to improve.  And to prove people wrong.  A lot of the same traits that JD had.  JD just wouldn't take no for an answer.  A constant student of the game, JD completely revamped his swing in the offseason last year having immediate success with it in winter ball.  He never got a chance in spring training.   I'm sorry but Luhnow and his team just don't seem to put a value on work ethic and the intangibles that make one player better than another.  I'm officially off the Luhnow bandwagon. 

[hostros7]

The thing about losing Tropeano is some of us have been following these guys closely.  Tropeano busted out on the scene when he added a few miles per hour on his fastball his first full year.  Always having a devastating change up the improved speed on his fastball made his changeup even better.  In his second year he regressed a little, causing many to think he was toping out.  But he put it all together this year at AAA and absolutely dominated.  His cup of coffee at the major leagues was decent.  No reason to think he wouldn't have settled in to being a good starter for the conceivable future.  And then WHAM, he's traded for a good backup catcher.   Just doesn't make sense.   The thing that makes Tropeano good is his tenacity and constant strive to improve.  And to prove people wrong.  A lot of the same traits that JD had.  JD just wouldn't take no for an answer.  A constant student of the game, JD completely revamped his swing in the offseason last year having immediate success with it in winter ball.  He never got a chance in spring training.   I'm sorry but Luhnow and his team just don't seem to put a value on work ethic and the intangibles that make one player better than another.  I'm officially off the Luhnow bandwagon. 

Your statement might be a bit of an overreaction, especially at this early juncture in the offseason, but, if Trop pans out, Cosart continues to pitch like he did at the end of last season, and McHugh and/or Keuchel regress, well . . . the Astros will have a solid back up catcher and a 3B prospect in MiLB.

[Kit]

I wouldn't have too much problem with a Castro trade,( if this is what they are leading up to) as long as we get someone of value
 ( see young pitcher) for him...but still, I don't understand this front office's mindset at all..It's ludicrous to think that we have pitching to burn when we were 25th out of 30 teams in era last year. Only some of those young arms pan out, we seem to be thinning the herd for no real reason right now. Marisnick might turn out to be okay, but I'm still pissed about Cosart being dealt.

[roadrunner]

I'm sorry but Luhnow and his team just don't seem to put a value on work ethic and the intangibles that make one player better than another.  I'm officially off the Luhnow bandwagon. 

I understand the concerns but this is a bit of a reach.  

Watching JD last year after we let him go was tough, but that shit happens in baseball.  Bagwell, Lofton, Abreu....those are famous examples but you can make all-star teams every year with guys like that.  Collin McHugh is one of those guys.  Using the JD mistake to knock this trade and turn it into some to generalization of the organization's outlook on work ethic doesn't really connect to me.  

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Martinez was let go, given up on. Nothing in return. How does that relate to Bagwell, Lofton, or Abreu?

[Reuben]

The thing about losing Tropeano is some of us have been following these guys closely.  ...

I think the rest of what you're saying might be a tad colored by the above bias. Maybe people have forgotten this, because it's been a few years since the org was really trading prospects of any significance for Major League players, but, that's baseball. Lots and lots of prospects come through every system, and many of them become personal or sentimental favorites. Some of those will come up and stick with the big club for a while, and some will be used in trades.

You and a few others seem to be hung up on the Astros not thinking highly enough of Tropeano. Perhaps they did think pretty highly of him, but they also think highly of Conger too? And maybe they're wrong on that. It really depends on how you evaluate the different contributions of a catcher, and what you think Conger's true talent level is. And, of course, the Astros' relative near-MLB-ready pitching depth compared to their near-MLB-ready catching depth.

But basically every team that's not mired in a total fire-sale rebuild is going to make deals where they trade away prospects like Tropeano, on a fairly regular basis. And it doesn't always feel good to see those guys go.

[pots]

I think the rest of what you're saying might be a tad colored by the above bias. Maybe people have forgotten this, because it's been a few years since the org was really trading prospects of any significance for Major League players, but, that's baseball. Lots and lots of prospects come through every system, and many of them become personal or sentimental favorites. Some of those will come up and stick with the big club for a while, and some will be used in trades.

You and a few others seem to be hung up on the Astros not thinking highly enough of Tropeano. Perhaps they did think pretty highly of him, but they also think highly of Conger too? And maybe they're wrong on that. It really depends on how you evaluate the different contributions of a catcher, and what you think Conger's true talent level is. And, of course, the Astros' relative near-MLB-ready pitching depth compared to their near-MLB-ready catching depth.

But basically every team that's not mired in a total fire-sale rebuild is going to make deals where they trade away prospects like Tropeano, on a fairly regular basis. And it doesn't always feel good to see those guys go.

Just to be clear.  I'm not calling for his head.  I just used to be a staunch supporter of Mr Luhnow. 

And a correction.  Conger is under team control for 3 years.  I said 2 earlier. 

But to be clear on Tropeano, I don't mind trading prospects for MLB players.  No problem with the Cosart trade (though that landed more prospects).  No problem with Lyles.  Both are talented young pitchers.  But every article you read about guys like JD and Tropeano made you want to root for them.    Made you think they would be more than their talent.  You just hate to see these guys go.  Especially if good backup catcher is the return.  Perhaps Luhnow is trying to set the market for a haul from Castro.  To me it really doesn't matter.  Because I believe that selling Tropeano now is selling low.  And he's a guy I would have rather rooted for. 

[roadrunner]

Just to be clear.  I'm not calling for his head.  I just used to be a staunch supporter of Mr Luhnow. 

And a correction.  Conger is under team control for 3 years.  I said 2 earlier. 

But to be clear on Tropeano, I don't mind trading prospects for MLB players.  No problem with the Cosart trade (though that landed more prospects).  No problem with Lyles.  Both are talented young pitchers.  But every article you read about guys like JD and Tropeano made you want to root for them.    Made you think they would be more than their talent.  You just hate to see these guys go.  Especially if good backup catcher is the return.  Perhaps Luhnow is trying to set the market for a haul from Castro.  To me it really doesn't matter.  Because I believe that selling Tropeano now is selling low.  And he's a guy I would have rather rooted for. 

Disagreeing with the move is fine, but do you really think the Astros FO doesn't value work ethic because of this trade? 

[roadrunner]

Martinez was let go, given up on. Nothing in return. How does that relate to Bagwell, Lofton, or Abreu?

You know what I'm saying.

Nothing was given in return for Abreu, technically.

[geezerdonk]

I can't remember but I might have been dismayed with the Andersen trade.

[Reuben]

Just to be clear.  I'm not calling for his head.  I just used to be a staunch supporter of Mr Luhnow. 

And a correction.  Conger is under team control for 3 years.  I said 2 earlier. 

But to be clear on Tropeano, I don't mind trading prospects for MLB players.  No problem with the Cosart trade (though that landed more prospects).  No problem with Lyles.  Both are talented young pitchers.  But every article you read about guys like JD and Tropeano made you want to root for them.    Made you think they would be more than their talent.  You just hate to see these guys go.  Especially if good backup catcher is the return.  Perhaps Luhnow is trying to set the market for a haul from Castro.  To me it really doesn't matter.  Because I believe that selling Tropeano now is selling low.  And he's a guy I would have rather rooted for. 

Frankly I don't recall seeing many articles on Tropeano, and I follow the farm pretty closely. In any case, I think there's a difference between being bummed to see a personal favorite go, and thinking its a shitty trade that proves something about the overall judgement or philosophy of the org. I was bummed to see JD Martinez let go, but it was hard to argue, at the time, that he hadn't been given plenty of chances. New swing, ok. Every spring is full of marginal mlb hitters proclaiming that they fixed something and feel like they've turned a corner.  I did scratch my head at why they completely cut him lose, but perhaps that was genuinely to benefit the player, so he could seek better opportunities elsewhere, where he wasn't blocked by LJ Hoes (oops!).

And hey, at least they've kept Keuchel. He's always been the type of player you're talking about.

[pots]

Frankly I don't recall seeing many articles on Tropeano, and I follow the farm pretty closely. In any case, I think there's a difference between being bummed to see a personal favorite go, and thinking its a shitty trade that proves something about the overall judgement or philosophy of the org. I was bummed to see JD Martinez let go, but it was hard to argue, at the time, that he hadn't been given plenty of chances. New swing, ok. Every spring is full of marginal mlb hitters proclaiming that they fixed something and feel like they've turned a corner.  I did scratch my head at why they completely cut him lose, but perhaps that was genuinely to benefit the player, so he could seek better opportunities elsewhere, where he wasn't blocked by LJ Hoes (oops!).

And hey, at least they've kept Keuchel. He's always been the type of player you're talking about.

They did keep Keuchel.  I was happy to see them not give up on him.  I felt like he could be a good back end of the rotation guy.  Oops, he did even better.  

I read a couple of articles like this on Trop.  And there has been a lot about his tenacity on the mound.  I like his chances to succeed.  

[Reuben]

They did keep Keuchel.  I was happy to see them not give up on him.  I felt like he could be a good back end of the rotation guy.  Oops, he did even better.  

I read a couple of articles like this on Trop.  And there has been a lot about his tenacity on the mound.  I like his chances to succeed.  

Cool. By the way, I agree, of course, with your general premise here. I love to see guys like Keuchel, Altuve, Tropeano, and Kike Hernandez overcome the odds and have success with the Astros. I wish they could field a team full of guys like that, and hang on to them. Mike Elias talks a lot about how important a player's makeup and intangibles are to them when evaluating amateur talent, so I assume it's something the org as a whole values as well.

[JimR]

Cool. By the way, I agree, of course, with your general premise here. I love to see guys like Keuchel, Altuve, Tropeano, and Kike Hernandez overcome the odds and have success with the Astros. I wish they could field a team full of guys like that, and hang on to them. Mike Elias talks a lot about how important a player's makeup and intangibles are to them when evaluating amateur talent, so I assume it's something the org as a whole values as well.

every org values makeup

[Kit]

every org values makeup

Avon for example   

[Ty in Tampa]

every org values makeup

"You bet they do."

-Lance Berkman, Jim Edmonds, Yadier Molina

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

AKA the max factor.

[juliogotay]

This article makes me question the wisdom of dealing Tropeano for another catcher. http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2014/11/26/7290581/brad-peacocks-hip-Astros-Anatomy-Houston-Labrum-Baseball-Pitching