Luhnow open to trading Keuchel, McHugh and Cosart

[Nate Colbert]

Sez Ken Rosenthal, quoting Luhnow (apologies if this was posted elsewhere):

Earlier this season, Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow told me that he was not interested in trading left-hander Dallas Keuchel or righty Collin McHugh, indicating that both could be part of the team’s future.

Things change.

A shortage of available quality starting pitchers is creating a seller’s market as the non-waiver deadline approaches at 4 p.m. ET Thursday. And now Luhnow is open to trading Keuchel, McHugh or right-hander Jarred Cosart for the right return.

“We do seem to have an excess of pretty good young starters so we wouldn’t rule anything out,” Luhnow said Monday. “We’d have to get back a big-league piece, preferably a bat, in a package that makes sense for the future and present.”

Keuchel, McHugh and Cosart all have less than two years of major-league service. Any one of the three presumably could bring a hitter with comparable talent and service time in return.

[jbm]

Which contender is going to pay dearly for Cosart or McHugh?

Maybe these are the players who voiced their opinions about the FO, or maybe Luhnow is prepping for that 2019 playoff run.

[Jacksonian]

Which contender is going to pay dearly for Cosart or McHugh?

Maybe these are the players who voiced their opinions about the FO, or maybe Luhnow is prepping for that 2019 playoff run.

I'm in the camp that thinks any deal involving Astros starting pitchers won't happen until the off-season but that a deal will happen for a hitter or two.

[roadrunner]

Ah, Cosart.  My money is that he is the one who made the comments about Appel.

[subnuclear]

Speaking of Keuchel, here is a nice history of his pitching technique. He says he had some fluid build-up in his hand, but he thinks he'll eventually get back to where he was earlier in the season.

[NeilT]

Why wouldn't he.  After all, Appel has now moved up to AA, they need top make space on the big club.

[BUWebguy]

Speaking of McHugh, how about this tidbit from @AstrosGrande (the team's PR manager) on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/AstrosGrande/status/493801074231234560

Ks/9IP leaders among @astros starters with 80+ IP in a single season:
Ryan (11.48, '87),
@Collin_McHugh (10.35, '14),
Mike Scott (10, '86).

[Reuben]

Speaking of McHugh, how about this tidbit from @AstrosGrande (the team's PR manager) on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/AstrosGrande/status/493801074231234560

Ks/9IP leaders among @astros starters with 80+ IP in a single season:
Ryan (11.48, '87),
@Collin_McHugh (10.35, '14),
Mike Scott (10, '86).

JR Richard never topped 10 K per 9 in a season?

[Reuben]

Ah, Cosart.  My money is that he is the one who made the comments about Appel.

He's certainly a prime suspect. Trading away bad mouthing malcontents is a time-honored tradition in baseball, but damn. If this statement really was in response to the Appel furor... that's a rather sudden, hard-ass line to draw in the sand on the part of Luhnow.

[mrpink]

JR Richard never topped 10 K per 9 in a season?

9.9 in 1978 was his high water mark.

[HudsonHawk]

Ah, Cosart.  My money is that he is the one who made the comments about Appel.

My money is on JJDO lying out of his ass. Again.

[chuck]

He's certainly a prime suspect. Trading away bad mouthing malcontents is a time-honored tradition in baseball, but damn. If this statement really was in response to the Appel furor... that's a rather sudden, hard-ass line to draw in the sand on the part of Luhnow.

You think that being dealt by the Astros is meant to be viewed as some kind of punishment?

[Navin R Johnson]

My money is on JJDO lying out of his ass. Again.

That would certainly make more sense than a player actually being upset about a minor leaguer throwing a BP session, in the morning, prior to the team arriving at the park.   I can't understand why in the world that could possibly upset someone.

[Reuben]

You think that being dealt by the Astros is meant to be viewed as some kind of punishment?

I guess I didn't consider the possibility that the 25-man roster might not all have ranches in the area. 

[Fredia]

i dont seem em as cowboys, they probably think they are more like steers

[juliogotay]

He's certainly a prime suspect. Trading away bad mouthing malcontents is a time-honored tradition in baseball, but damn. If this statement really was in response to the Appel furor... that's a rather sudden, hard-ass line to draw in the sand on the part of Luhnow.

I can't imagine that. Luhnow does not make decisions like that.

[juliogotay]

Question for any and all takers. If you were GM and were offered a bat you consider good value in return for either Cosart, Keuchel or McHugh who would you offer.
I know it doesn't work that way but...

[pots]

Question for any and all takers. If you were GM and were offered a bat you consider good value in return for either Cosart, Keuchel or McHugh who would you offer.
I know it doesn't work that way but...

No offense to Hoes, but if it's another Hoes type bat, pass.  It is just so highly doubtful anyone is going to trade an impact player for any of these 3 that it isn't worth it.  Teams are still way over-evaluating their prospects.

[Reuben]

No offense to Hoes, but if it's another Hoes type bat, pass.  It is just so highly doubtful anyone is going to trade an impact player for any of these 3 that it isn't worth it.  Teams are still way over-evaluating their prospects.

I know you know that Hoes was not the #1 or even the #2 piece for Norris. That said, I have no idea what one of those pitchers would fetch in trade. I suppose Cosart would bring the most because he has the fastball and the pedigree.

[Nate Colbert]

I'm in the camp that thinks any deal involving Astros starting pitchers won't happen until the off-season but that a deal will happen for a hitter or two.

Selling high on Chris Carter?

[roadrunner]

I don't want these guys traded for a couple of A ball prospects.  If any of them are traded for anything I'd like for it to be a major league bat.

[Aussie Astro]

You think that being dealt by the Astros is meant to be viewed as some kind of punishment?

Getting dealt by the Astros is parole, get there in the first place was punishment.

[Jacksonian]

Question for any and all takers. If you were GM and were offered a bat you consider good value in return for either Cosart, Keuchel or McHugh who would you offer.
I know it doesn't work that way but...

I would think that considering it would be a contending team looking for a pitcher and that McHugh and Keuchel have been the most consistent pitchers they would be the primary targets.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Speaking of McHugh, how about this tidbit from @AstrosGrande (the team's PR manager) on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/AstrosGrande/status/493801074231234560

Ks/9IP leaders among @astros starters with 80+ IP in a single season:
Ryan (11.48, '87),
@Collin_McHugh (10.35, '14),
Mike Scott (10, '86).

1998 Randy Johnson pitched 84.1 innings and average 12.4 SO9.

[pots]

I know you know that Hoes was not the #1 or even the #2 piece for Norris. That said, I have no idea what one of those pitchers would fetch in trade. I suppose Cosart would bring the most because he has the fastball and the pedigree.

I do, but Hoes was billed a mlb ready bat.  Just don't think you are going to get a mlb ready bat that will be a key player.  And just another young bat isn't needed.  Though given the years of club control they would be giving up in these pitchers you'd like to thin k they could get somebody good.  But it would have to be better than Santana level talent in my opinion and clubs just don't give that up very often. 

[astrosfan76]

I do, but Hoes was billed a mlb ready bat.  Just don't think you are going to get a mlb ready bat that will be a key player.  And just another young bat isn't needed.  Though given the years of club control they would be giving up in these pitchers you'd like to thin k they could get somebody good.  But it would have to be better than Santana level talent in my opinion and clubs just don't give that up very often. 

Yep, especially for the level of pitcher that we would be giving up. Nothing against these guys, but none have the stuff/track record of even Norris. Maybe they could make another Fowler-type deal, I don't know.

[jbm]

Keuchel may not have his track record or Norris' stuff, but he's a better pitcher IMO, and I think Norris is pretty good.  Keuchel is also head and shoulders above Cosart.  Who knows about McHugh, but it seems pointless to trade him as his potential has to be way more than what you would get in return, which is essentially nothing.

Unless these guys are malcontents that are harming the clubhouse, or unless someone is absolutely wowed by Cosart's fastball, hanging them out for trade is head scratching to say the least.

[pots]

Yep, especially for the level of pitcher that we would be giving up. Nothing against these guys, but none have the stuff/track record of even Norris. Maybe they could make another Fowler-type deal, I don't know.

You undervalue good young pitching.  Norris never put together the year Keuchel or McHugh are having.   Nor did Bud ever have the hype that Cosart has.   Lyles never had an ERA below 5.    And you are talking about pitchers that are under club control through 2018 (2019 for Cosart and McHugh).  No doubt clubs are going to bring the no track record to the table.  But the Astros aren't in any need of making a deal. 

[astrosfan76]

You undervalue good young pitching.  Norris never put together the year Keuchel or McHugh are having.   Nor did Bud ever have the hype that Cosart has.   Lyles never had an ERA below 5.    And you are talking about pitchers that are under club control through 2018 (2019 for Cosart and McHugh).  No doubt clubs are going to bring the no track record to the table.  But the Astros aren't in any need of making a deal. 

I could sit here and nitpick things like "Keuchel has never finished a season with an ERA under 5 and had a 4.56 ERA with a .404 BA in July".  But, really I just don't think they're the type of players who will bring a good bat in return, especially one with more than a couple of years of club control.  Not without a many-for-one type of trade, at least.

If they do make a trade for a bat, I'm okay with that.  I just don't know what's out there and where they will put them.  1B/DH are set, 2B is set, CF and RF will be set once Springer and Fowler return.  I don't see them upgrading Catcher and I would be surprised if they upgraded 3B.  Shortstop is an option, though Gonzalez has been adequate.  Left field is really the main place I could see them looking to upgrade.  That would probably mean Santana is at AAA for a while longer, though they would have options after the season.  But, it's just about whether they can make a move that will make sense.   

[pots]

Another thing to take into account is that it's not just contenders that will come calling about those 3.  Any club could be interested in one of them.

[Duman]

Selling high on Chris Carter?

I was wondering this when the Reds lost Votto. 

[Mr. Happy]

I was wondering this when the Reds lost Votto. 

The way the Reds are playing right now, they may be sellers.

[pots]

MLBTR with links to Luhnow shopping Carter.   And Seattle which might be a fit is not interested.

[jbm]

The guys on the MLB Network radio show were hearing stories that the Mariners' GM is gaining a reputation as an unrealistic fool that no one wants to deal with.  Actually expecting to get top notch players without giving up jack shit in return, or at least what most other GMs consider jack shit. 

[NeilT]

The guys on the MLB Network radio show were hearing stories that the Mariners' GM is gaining a reputation as an unrealistic fool that no one wants to deal with.  Actually expecting to get top notch players without giving up jack shit in return, or at least what most other GMs consider jack shit. 

Good. The stinking red algae bloom deserve what they don't get.

[BUWebguy]

The guys on the MLB Network radio show were hearing stories that the Mariners' GM is gaining a reputation as an unrealistic fool that no one wants to deal with.

More on that: http://deadspin.com/report-mlb-gms-are-sick-of-dealing-with-the-mariners-1612939092

[austro]

The guys on the MLB Network radio show were hearing stories that the Mariners' GM is gaining a reputation as an unrealistic fool that no one wants to deal with.  Actually expecting to get top notch players without giving up jack shit in return, or at least what most other GMs consider jack shit.  

Weren't they the org that hired some guy as GM who pumped up his resume by claiming as his own the work done by some guy who worked for him?

ETA: Yeah, that mess was described in an article linked to by the article in the above link. It's the same guy.

[hostros7]

Lester traded for Cespedes and Gomes.

Lester may be a more proven commodity than Dallas, but Lester is a FA after this season so my guess is Luhnow wants a haul if Dallas is moved due to his favorable club control status.

[mrpink]

Wow.  Billy Beane ain't messing around.

[subnuclear]

Wow.  Billy Beane ain't messing around.

Maybe the injured Astros beating up on their starting pitching a little made a difference.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Pitching wins championships indeed.  That rotation will be devastating in a playoff series.  Hell, in a short series you can send Hammel to the bully.

[pots]

This is interesting because no one knew the As were still looking for a starter and it removes the biggest available starter off the market. 

[pots]

Any chance a package of Cosart(or McHugh), Sipp and Carter could land Josh Bell?  


ETA:
They were looking at lefty relievers, a starter and Marlon Byrd.  This would be 3 controllable players for many years.  For one of the best outfield prospects.

[Jacksonian]

Rosenthal is tweeting that the Astros are very active on Cosart and have taken Keuchel off the table.

[Reuben]

from mlbtr: "The Astros are “very busy” taking calls on righty Jarred Cosart, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Houston has taken lefty Dallas Keuchel off the market, however, though it always seemed a longshot for him to be dealt."

Rosenthal is tweeting that the Astros are very active on Cosart and have taken Keuchel off the table.

Beat me by seconds.

[juliogotay]

Do we think the Astros have soured on Cosart's potential? I remember Luhnow discussing him as a potential TORP but that may just be bluster. He was very good in June. Very mediocre-to-bad in July. It's all mechanics with him. If they can get him straightened out...

[Jacksonian]

Do we think the Astros have soured on Cosart's potential? I remember Luhnow discussing him as a potential TORP but that may just be bluster. He was very good in June. Very mediocre-to-bad in July. It's all mechanics with him. If they can get him straightened out...

The Astros have young arms.  If they can get back a similar potential bat then do it.

[das]

The Astros have young arms.  If they can get back a similar potential bat then do it.

One of those young arms is Cosart. Not his fault that he's up at the MLb level refining his mechanics. I'd hate to loose him.

[BudGirl]

One of those young arms is Cosart. Not his fault that he's up at the MLb level refining his mechanics. I'd hate to loose him.

You can never have too much pitching.  I like Cosart.

[juliogotay]

The Astros have young arms.  If they can get back a similar potential bat then do it.

In looking at OKC there are four guys that I see could be a rotation piece at some time. Tropeano is the closest to being ready. Folty has the same consistency issues as Cosart and Wojo and Shirley are not doing that well at that level so far. Corpus has Rogers, Smith maybe Cruz  but none of those would be in the class with Cosart except for Appel.  Maybe I'm overvaluing him but I'm wondering if there are other reasons why they may want to move him.

[Reuben]

In looking at OKC there are four guys that I see could be a rotation piece at some time. Tropeano is the closest to being ready. Folty has the same consistency issues as Cosart and Wojo and Shirley are not doing that well at that level so far. Corpus has Rogers, Smith maybe Cruz  but none of those would be in the class with Cosart except for Appel.  Maybe I'm overvaluing him but I'm wondering if there are other reasons why they may want to move him.

Don't forget Rodon will most likely be in the rotation by mid-2015 as well. Wait, this is still March 2014, isn't it?

[pots]

Cardinals Acquire Lackey; Joe Kelly, Allen Craig To Boston.

Takes one of the major buyers for a starter off the table but removes another available pitcher.  Pirates, Dodgers, Orioles maybe others still looking.  (again given the years of control, contenders may not be the only teams calling)

[Jacksonian]

One of those young arms is Cosart. Not his fault that he's up at the MLb level refining his mechanics. I'd hate to loose him.

I'm still of the opinion that any deal won't happen until this winter.

[pots]

Apparently David Price will be on the move.  The starter market likely to be on hold till it is over.

[Reuben]

I'm still of the opinion that any deal won't happen until this winter.

I think you're probably right.

[Ty in Tampa]

I don't think Price will go anywhere.

[Reuben]

I don't think Price will go anywhere.

Rosenthal saying Tiggers got him.

[Ty in Tampa]

Shows what I know. MLB At Bat says no club confirmations yet.

[Reuben]

surely Rays are getting more than just Smyly and Nick Franklin?

[roadrunner]

Tags tweeting that Cosart is hugging players on the field...?

[Navin R Johnson]

He gone

[Reuben]

He gone

Cosart. "hugging friends/coaches on field, in street clothes." Marlins?

[roadrunner]

....to Miami.  For nothing.  God dammit Luhnow.

[subnuclear]

....to Miami.  For nothing.  God dammit Luhnow.

For nothing?

[Reuben]

....to Miami.  For nothing.  God dammit Luhnow.

And Kike too?

[roadrunner]

For nothing?

bad joke

Kike gone, too...I liked him

[Reuben]

I'm gonna guess Marlins wouldn't trade Yelich. Maybe Marisnick, and...?

[roadrunner]

I'm gonna guess Marlins wouldn't trade Yelich. Maybe Marisnick, and...?

Does Miami have a comp pick to trade?  I really don't want it to be that but wouldn't be surprised if that's involved.

[Reuben]

 Evan Drellich @EvanDrellich  ·  44s

Source: Marisnick one if players going to Astros. Hernandez, Cosart gone

[Reuben]

 clarkspencer @clarkspencer  ·  7s

Source: #Marlins are sending Collin Moran and Jake Marisnick and a comp pick to Astros according to source.

WOW

[roadrunner]

clarkspencer @clarkspencer  ·  7s

Source: #Marlins are sending Collin Moran and Jake Marisnick and a comp pick to Astros according to source.

WOW

Luhnow's back.  Love it.

assuming that is true

[roadrunner]

AND a comp pick.

Ok, I'll take the comp pick.

[JimR]

clarkspencer @clarkspencer  ·  7s

Source: #Marlins are sending Collin Moran and Jake Marisnick and a comp pick to Astros according to source.

WOW

ok, tell me about who we got. I liked Cosart too.

[jbm]

I don't know who these guys are, but I hate to see them go, especially Hernandez.  He looked like a really good ballplayer.

[Reuben]

Luhnow's back.  Love it.

assuming that is true

ok, tell me about who we got. I liked Cosart too.

M's #2 & 3 prospects on BA's pre-season list
CF Marisnick, originally TOR farmhand
3B Moran, kid who lit up NCAA for UNC last year

[JimR]

M's #2 & 3 prospects on BA's pre-season list
CF Marisnick, originally TOR farmhand
3B Moran, kid who lit up NCAA for UNC last year

thanks, R

[roadrunner]

M's #2 & 3 prospects on BA's pre-season list
CF Marisnick, originally TOR farmhand
3B Moran, kid who lit up NCAA for UNC last year

Moran was in the 1-1 discussions for awhile.

[Jacksonian]

M's #2 & 3 prospects on BA's pre-season list
CF Marisnick, originally TOR farmhand
3B Moran, kid who lit up NCAA for UNC last year

IMO, Marisnick is the better of the two by a lot.  I haven't really ever liked Moran.  Light hitting 3b who don't run well aren't my cup of tea.

[Reuben]

IMO, Marisnick is the better of the two by a lot.  I haven't really ever liked Moran.  Light hitting 3b who don't run well aren't my cup of tea.

I'm about to look up Marisnick. I don't know much about him except that he's in AAA, had a MLB cup of coffee, and hasn't lit the world on fire this year.

[Nate Colbert]

Jose de Jesus Ortiz @OrtizKicks  ·  4m
Very poor form by the Astros PR staff. Told one group of media clubhouse was closed, let another group go through front door.

Guess which group JDJO was in.

[Reuben]

Moran followed his uncle B.J. Surhoff and brother Brian to North Carolina, where he was honored as BA’s Freshman of the Year in 2011. He was a Golden Spikes finalist last spring after leading the nation with 91 RBIs, a school record. After the Marlins selected him sixth overall and gave him a slot bonus of $3,516,500, the second-largest in franchise history, he homered in his first pro at-bat.

Scouting Report: Scouts believe Moran will hit, but his power will determine how much impact he has in the big leagues. A pure hitter with an advanced approach at the plate, Moran controls the strike zone, has excellent hand-eye coordination and rarely chases. Though he has pull power, when he’s going well he’ll take what the pitcher gives him and drive it hard into the gap. He projects as a run-producing .300 hitter with the size and strong hands to put up 20 homers a year. Though not quick, he’s athletic enough to stay at third, where his hands are soft and he shows average lateral range and an above-average, accurate arm. He’s a below-average runner but can rev it up when digging for an extra base.

From BA

[OregonStrosFan]

I liked Cosart too.

I was as well...

[jbm]

IMO, Marisnick is the better of the two by a lot.  I haven't really ever liked Moran.  Light hitting 3b who don't run well aren't my cup of tea.

It may be quite a deal in the long run, or it may not, but it doesn't seem to address the goal of improving this year's team.

[Uncle Charlie]

AND a comp pick.

Ok, I'll take the comp pick.

That's the first comp pick too.  Astros will have 4 picks in the top 40 next year.

[Reuben]

More from BA pre-season Top 10:

Background: The marquee minor leaguer acquired in the November 2012 trade with the Blue Jays, Marisnick opened 2013 on the disabled list after his left hand was broken by a pitch in spring training, and then had his season end early due to a left knee injury. He had surgery to repair a torn meniscus after the season. He and Christian Yelich were promoted to Miami the same day last July.

Scouting Report: Marisnick earns plus grades in every tool but hitting. He succeeded at Double-A Jacksonville by staying back and working the middle of the field, but big league pitchers exploited his aggressiveness. Though he exhibits good bat speed, he lacks the hand-eye coordination of most high-average hitters. He also needs to work himself into better counts. Marisnick has the strength and swing path to develop plus power. A plus-plus defender with an above-average arm, he’s fearless in center field where he reads the ball well and covers a lot of ground. He’s a plus runner, though his instincts could use fine-tuning.

The Future: Marisnick could use at least another half-season on the farm to refine his approach, and if his bat develops, he’ll be a dynamic everyday player.

[Navin R Johnson]

So the Astros bonus pool for the 2015 draft is gonna be ridiculous.

[OregonStrosFan]

Per MLBTR: "Outfielder Austin Wates is also part of the package going to Miami, tweets Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com."

[Uncle Charlie]

It may be quite a deal in the long run, or it may not, but it doesn't seem to address the goal of improving this year's team.

It opens up a 40 man slot in prep for rule 5 and an SP slot for Trop, Folty, etc

[Navin R Johnson]

and Austin Wates going to Miami.  damn.

[roadrunner]

Considering the pitching coming up, Cosart seems replaceable to me.  I'm sure the media will spin this as the Astros are never going to not rebuild, and I would agree if it didn't appear to be such a good haul for a pitcher worth ditching.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Cosart was the guy in the clubhouse saying stuff to Ortiz.

[OregonStrosFan]

And it looks like HOU gets a young pitcher in the deal as well:

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1  via Twitter:
'Young pitcher #Astros are getting from #Marlins in Cosart deal is Francis Martes"

[OregonStrosFan]

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Cosart was the guy in the clubhouse saying stuff to Ortiz.

I wondered that myself...

[jbm]

It opens up a 40 man slot in prep for rule 5 and an SP slot for Trop, Folty, etc

Aren't there about 15 guys who could open up those spots?

[Ebby Calvin]

Marisnick reporting to Houston.

[Navin R Johnson]

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Cosart was the guy in the clubhouse saying stuff to Ortiz.

That would make sense.

[BudGirl]

ok, tell me about who we got. I liked Cosart too.

Me too.

[Uncle Charlie]

Aren't there about 15 guys who could open up those spots?

No

[roadrunner]

Marisnick to Houston

Moran to Corpus (I'm guessing he gets the nod over Ruiz due to age)

Martes is like 18 so gulf coast league?

[Jacksonian]

Marisnick to Houston

Moran to Corpus (I'm guessing he gets the nod over Ruiz due to age)

Martes is like 18 so gulf coast league?

GCL, yes.

[Ty in Tampa]

surely Rays are getting more than just Smyly and Nick Franklin?

Apparently not.

[Twoniner]

Considering the pitching coming up, Cosart seems replaceable to me.  I'm sure the media will spin this as the Astros are never going to not rebuild, and I would agree if it didn't appear to be such a good haul for a pitcher worth ditching.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if Cosart was the guy in the clubhouse saying stuff to Ortiz.

Cosart was the most open bitcher about the shifting. 

[BudGirl]

Cosart was the most open bitcher about the shifting. 

I also think he was one that commented about Keuchel not getting a call up when he thought he should have (a year or so ago).  I still like him.

[hostros7]

Hope kike is and isn't the next Zobrist.

[jbm]

I also think he was one that commented about Keuchel not getting a call up when he thought he should have (a year or so ago).  I still like him.

He was.  I liked his competitiveness, but he really hasn't improved much in three years.  I still think he might be a badass reliever in the future though.

Now I don't have to learn how to type the accent on Hernandez, but there was nothing about that guy that didn't scream player.  Great contact, can drive the ball, plays almost every position, and great instincts.  Maybe there just wasn't a column in the spreadsheets for him. 

[Jacksonian]

He was.  I liked his competitiveness, but he really hasn't improved much in three years.  I still think he might be a badass reliever in the future though.

Now I don't have to learn how to type the accent on Hernandez, but there was nothing about that guy that didn't scream player.  Great contact, can drive the ball, plays almost every position, and great instincts.  Maybe there just wasn't a column in the spreadsheets for him. 

I expect him to be the Marlins starting 2b.

[Bench]

Moran was in the 1-1 discussions for awhile.

So now the Astros have the guy they almost picked as a 1-1 the year they picked the player they almost picked as a 1-1 the previous year. 

[geezerdonk]

Luhnow already has one colossal blunder to his credit this year. I hope this isn't another one but it sure looks like it has the potential.

[Navin R Johnson]

Luhnow already has one colossal blunder to his credit this year. I hope this isn't another one but it sure looks like it has the potential.

Seems like the Astros did pretty darn well just in terms of the players they got, not to mention the extra pick the Marlins decided to throw in.

[subnuclear]

Scouting report on Moran with clips and gifs from February.

[chuck]

Cosart was obviously a hothead. I sorta like hotheads, though, so that never bothered me. I was always fascinated by his wild inconsistency. Every three or four games he'd have three or four consecutive innings where he was just fucking nasty, good to very good control with wild-ass movement on everything. No one could touch him. And then it would just disappear and you'd have to wait a couple of weeks to see it again.

It'll be entertaining to see if he ever harnesses that potential or if he's another Redding.

Kike had quickly become one of my two favorite Astros. There's obviously not a hell of a lot of competition but now sadly there's one fewer reason to watch this shitshow. Also, in Miami he's surely going to take playing time away from Donovan Solano which sucks because he's from Barranquilla and there are only so many guys in the major leagues from Barranquilla.

Miami Marlins: All your third base are belong to us.

[Navin R Johnson]

Cosart was frustrating to watch.  He clearly has talent, but the 4 inning, 109 pitch games were bothersome.

Kike was tought not to root for, gonna miss him too.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

From a journalistic perspective, I'm going to miss Cosart and Hernandez. Great, great quotes and witty as hell.

Where did this gun come from, and why is it smoking?

[Navin R Johnson]

Why doesn't JdJO just come out and say Cosart was the dbag who was bitching to him about Appel throwing a BP session?  It is pretty obvious now thats who was upset.

Would be funny if Cosart's picture ended up on the pinwheel tonight.

[chuck]

Would be funny if Cosart's picture ended up on the pinwheel tonight.

Tack it right onto the Focus On Things You Can Change slice.

[NeilT]

So Moran is at least a couple of years away?  The chronicle is also showing an 18 year old pitcher, Frances Martes.

ETA:  Now I see Martes mentioned above.

[jbm]

Why doesn't JdJO just come out and say Cosart was the dbag who was bitching to him about Appel throwing a BP session?  It is pretty obvious now thats who was upset.

He might be, but IMO, people should be careful tarnishing people without evidence.  Kuechel and McHugh were supposedly offered up also, and Hernandez was traded; does that make them guilty also?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

So Moran is at least a couple of years away?  The chronicle is also showing an 18 year old pitcher, Frances Martes.

9k's per 9 innings in Rookie ball.

[Reuben]

So Moran is at least a couple of years away?  The chronicle is also showing an 18 year old pitcher, Frances Martes.

ETA:  Now I see Martes mentioned above.

I know leading up to the draft last year he was seen as someone who was polished and could be a quick riser. Obviously depending how he does at Corpus and so on, not out of the realm of possibility that he could become the regular 3B some time in 2015.

[Jacksonian]

I know leading up to the draft last year he was seen as someone who was polished and could be a quick riser. Obviously depending how he does at Corpus and so on, not out of the realm of possibility that he could become the regular 3B some time in 2015.

Matt Dominguez, you are on the clock.

[NeilT]

Matt Dominguez, you are on the clock.

At least what I read wasn't certain that he would stay at 3rd.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with him.

[Nate Colbert]

‏@jimcallisMLB  8m
Scout told me he's raw but can hit 97 mph. Worthwhile lottery ticket type. @HouseOfHouston: What do we think of Francis Martes? @Astros

@BenBadler  ·  28m
Francis Martes, who the Astros got from the Marlins in the Cosart deal, made my DSL/VSL Top 20 last year. Nifty move: http://bit.ly/1pupFxh

[BudGirl]

At least what I read wasn't certain that he would stay at 3rd.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with him.

DH??

[OregonStrosFan]

At least what I read wasn't certain that he would stay at 3rd.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with him.

If it is "move him to 2B" there might be a mutiny...

[Reuben]

If it is "move him to 2B" there might be a mutiny...

From what I understand of his foot speed, "move him to pitcher" is probably equally as likely as 2B.

[Navin R Johnson]

FWIW,  Jake Marisnick was drafted in the 3rd round (#109 overall) in 2009, he was considered the 58th best prospect going into the draft.  He must have been a tough sign, he was committed to Oregon and didn't sign till the very end of the summer for 1 million.  1 Mil was the 3rd highest bonus that round, 1st highest was Will Myers.  Marisnick signed so late that year he didn't appear in a single minor league game in 2009. 

[chuck]

Matt Dominguez, you are on the clock.

Matt Dominguez is nowhere in the vicinity of why this team sucks. I'm trying to figure out how this trade makes the Astros better in 2019 or whenever it is they're expected to stop sucking.

[Navin R Johnson]

Matt Dominguez is nowhere in the vicinity of why this team sucks. I'm trying to figure out how this trade makes the Astros better in 2019 or whenever it is they're expected to stop sucking.

The way I view Dominguez is this.  A team can succeed with MD, but a team isn't going to succeed because of MD.  He is still fairly young so there is still a chance he develops into a because guy.  In the field we basically have 2 of difference makers, Springer and Altuve.  The Astros need more of those. 

As for the future... who knows Moran and Marisnick seem pretty well thought of so they have have a chance to be impact guys.  Marisnick will be starting in CF tomorrow night.  Wouldn't be surprised if Moran is up for a cup of coffee at the end of the year.


What I am curious of is what the OF looks when everyone is healthy.  Who plays where when the OF is made up of Springer, Fowler and Marisnick?

[austro]

Hope kike is and isn't the next Zobrist.

Zobrist is my comp for Hernandez, too. He seems really versatile, and I'm sorry to see him go, but c'est la vie.

[chuck]

The way I view Dominguez is this.

Well, sure. My thought is a team can't continually trade major league players (regardless of how limited their experience) for minor league prospects and expect the major league team to improve. You can't keep replacing productive major leaguers with prospects and wonder why your team loses a hundred games year after year.

[austro]

What I am curious of is what the OF looks when everyone is healthy.  Who plays where when the OF is made up of Springer, Fowler and Marisnick?

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but apparently Casey Close is Cosart's agent. And Fowler's.

[Navin R Johnson]

Well, sure. My thought is a team can't continually trade major league players (regardless of how limited their experience) for minor league prospects and expect the major league team to improve. You can't keep replacing productive major leaguers with prospects and wonder why your team loses a hundred games year after year.

I'm with you there, I am just pretty luke warm on Cosart, and he was the only non-prospect we gave up.

I'm hoping next deadline we are the ones dealing prospects for a bonafide MLB guy.

[Aussie Astro]

Matt Dominguez is nowhere in the vicinity of why this team sucks. I'm trying to figure out how this trade makes the Astros better in 2019 or whenever it is they're expected to stop sucking.

+ 1.  At some point you need decide who are the keepers, unless the strategy is to keep trading until we have a MVP at each position?  

[astrosfan76]

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but apparently Casey Close is Cosart's agent. And Fowler's.

And Moran's.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2013/06/10/2013-mlb-draft-round-1-advisorsplayers-list/

[chuck]

And Moran's.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2013/06/10/2013-mlb-draft-round-1-advisorsplayers-list/

He's got scores and scores of players. Which is why it's a bad idea to enrage him. I mean, you don't need to lick his ass or bend over for him, but it's unwise to employ tactics that piss him off enough to where he says Take your five million dollars and shove it up your ass.

[astrosfan76]

The way I view Dominguez is this.  A team can succeed with MD, but a team isn't going to succeed because of MD.  He is still fairly young so there is still a chance he develops into a because guy.  In the field we basically have 2 of difference makers, Springer and Altuve.  The Astros need more of those. 

As for the future... who knows Moran and Marisnick seem pretty well thought of so they have have a chance to be impact guys.  Marisnick will be starting in CF tomorrow night.  Wouldn't be surprised if Moran is up for a cup of coffee at the end of the year.


What I am curious of is what the OF looks when everyone is healthy.  Who plays where when the OF is made up of Springer, Fowler and Marisnick?

We have guys who have potential to be "because" players on offense. Castro was one last season and Singleton could get there. Singleton has had a rough start average-wise, but that's never been a part of his game that scouts have questioned. Is .280 with 25 HR at 1B a "because" player? Borderline, I guess, if he can drive in 90-100.

I was wondering the same thing about the outfield. All three could play CF on a lot of teams. Springer and Marisnick both have arms that can play in RF, as well.

[Navin R Johnson]

Luhnow raved about Marisnick's defense in CF during the broadcast tonight, but also mentioned they have 5 guys that can play CF, Fowler, Spring Marisnick, Grossman and Pressley.  Luhnow said it gives the manager a lot of options.

But judging by his comments I think Marisnick is the CF going forward.  So my guess is Fowler in LF Springer in RF.

[astrosfan76]

He's got scores and scores of players. Which is why it's a bad idea to enrage him. I mean, you don't need to lick his ass or bend over for him, but it's unwise to employ tactics that piss him off enough to where he says Take your five million dollars and shove it up your ass.

I'm not too worried about it. Even with Fowler, what's he going to do? Overshoot what the club should pay him in arbitration? Then, he loses his client's case and costs him money. He could sway a client away from us after the season, but he'll get over it eventually.

[Jacksonian]

Luhnow raved about Marisnick's defense in CF during the broadcast tonight, but also mentioned they have 5 guys that can play CF, Fowler, Spring Marisnick, Grossman and Pressley.  Luhnow said it gives the manager a lot of options.

But judging by his comments I think Marisnick is the CF going forward.  So my guess is Fowler in LF Springer in RF.

McBragg's McBlog says Fowler in center when he returns.

[chuck]

McBragg's McBlog says Fowler in center when he returns.

He may be right but I got the same impression Navin did from Luhnow tonight.

[Reuben]

He may be right but I got the same impression Navin did from Luhnow tonight.

Plus there's the fact that, at least from my amateur, part-time observations, Fowler just isn't a very good CF. Nor does he have a good arm. It's possible that they still make him the CF in deference to his veteran status and/or to maintain his trade value, but logic says it should be Springer or Marisnick.

[Ty in Tampa]

...where he says Take your five million dollars and shove it up your ass.

He knows better. He'll lose scores and scores of players if that's his tactic.

[cheo25]

I'm not too worried about it. Even with Fowler, what's he going to do? Overshoot what the club should pay him in arbitration? Then, he loses his client's case and costs him money. He could sway a client away from us after the season, but he'll get over it eventually.

Agreed. I think the idea of pissing off an agent and it being a "reputation" problem is overblown and mostly a media creation. The Astros will have to overpay in dollars or years (see Scott Feldman) because they're a losing team. That would be the case with most players anyway.

[Duman]

GM's and Agents get it squabbles all the time.  Most never make it to the media.  They don't hold grudges like middle school girls.  Each has too much to lose to hold grudges. 

[Randy Watson]

I am wondering if the Astros think Kemp can be their super utility player in the future?

[Lefty]

I am wondering if the Astros think Kemp can be their super utility player in the future?

I was under the impression he was pretty much a 2B only.

[Reuben]

I am wondering if the Astros think Kemp can be their super utility player in the future?

Good point. He played a lot of CF in college if I remember right.

[jbm]

I don't ever recall hearing about him playing on the left side of the infield, but maybe he can.

[ValpoCory]

Can anyone with Insider access please provide a summary?

Link

Astros clean up in Jarred Cosart trade   
By Keith Law | ESPN.com

The six-player trade between the Astros and Marlins was the most interesting one of the day because, unlike most of the other deals at this exciting deadline, it included actual prospects -- minor leaguers and very young big leaguers going in both directions -- at a time when you have to pry prospects loose from most teams with a crowbar and a tube of silicone.

Jarred Cosart came to Houston in the Hunter Pence trade -- a deal that has turned out to be a huge heist for the Astros, with Jon Singleton and Domingo Santana both looking like they're going to pan out -- but he's

...

[Fredia]

when did logic ever get in the way?

[Nate Colbert]

Can anyone with Insider access please provide a summary?

Link

Whatever's in there, Evan Drellich seems to be taking exception:

@EvanDrellich  4m
.@keithlaw, after my Astros outcast story: "evidence he gives doesn't support his claims.” Today attacks Cosarts character...w/o explanation

@EvanDrellich  3m
You’re going to try to tear down someone’s makeup, you should probably have some shred of evidence presented.

[jbm]

I have no idea, but my money would be on Drellich.  He's closer to the team, and generally comes off as a writer with character.

[Reuben]

Whatever's in there, Evan Drellich seems to be taking exception:

I'm guessing the one from a couple months ago that quoted Bud Norris saying the Astros are the outcast of baseball.

[BizidyDizidy]

It's pretty vague:

Cosart has also earned a reputation for questionable makeup, which couldn't have helped his cause in Houston. I'd continue to give him reps as a starter, but his stuff might fit better in the pen. ...

The Astros absolutely cleaned up here, especially if, as I suspect, they wanted to rid themselves of Cosart for character reasons in addition to the gap between his talent and his performance.

[jbm]

Cleaned up?  I love these idiotic proclamations days after the trade.  No one will know who "cleaned up" on this trade for years.   

[BUWebguy]

FWIW, Peter Gammons liked the deal for Houston:
https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/495012267357110273

Most underrated trade may be Astros getting Colin Moran and Jake Marisnick

Colin is a special hitter people misread. And Marisnick is a must-see

[Navin R Johnson]

I have no idea, but my money would be on Drellich.  He's closer to the team, and generally comes off as a writer with character.

He is also closer to JdJO and has taken to twitter to defend him....  But other than the JdJO stuff, I think Drellich has been really good.

[Reuben]

Cleaned up?  I love these idiotic proclamations days after the trade.  No one will know who "cleaned up" on this trade for years.   

I think this may be especially true for this trade. While my initial take was that the Astros got a great return, after thinking about it, it's not so clear-cut. The three principles in the trade - really, four, if you include Kike - are all rather big wild cards, moreso than most young players, from what I can tell.

IF Cosart manages to improve his control a fair bit, he could be a CY candidate. IF Kike's new swing he adopted over the winter really has flipped a switch for him, he could be a high-quality super-utility guy or even an everyday 2B. I didn't realize quite how young he is - won't turn 23 until later this month. So it's possible he's a late-bloomer rather than just a guy on a hot streak.

Moran, IF he learns to pull/backspin the ball a bit more and become a 20-HR, .300 AVG 3B, will be a great player. Marisnick, IF he can adjust to MLB pitching and hit for a decent AVG, has the speed, great defense, and power to be a great all-around CF. Taking it further, Martes and the comp-round draft pick are obviously huge IFs.

It is a bummer that the Astros are trading current MLB producers for guys who either won't make the majors until 2015 or so (Moran) or aren't likely to hit as well as Kike right away (Marisnick). Is this were 2012 everyone would probably unreservedly love this trade, but in the midst of a 4th-straight horrible season it's natural to be frustrated when two guys like Cosart and Kike are shipped out. But I do think they are trading from a position of depth (young SP) to shore up an area of major weakness (young high-ceiling position players), and so from that standpoint it makes sense to give it a shot, regardless of how it ultimately turns out.

And at least the Astros had the sense not to trade Qualls, Sipp, and/or Fields. THAT would've really been a middle finger to the present and just felt like a huge step backward.

In short, I'm not angry, but I'm not gloating either.

[Reuben]

Looks like Zach Levine co-wrote a piece for BP analyzing the Cosart deal. Anyone with access care to summarize/quote relevant excerpts?

[jbm]

My synopsis:

In response to Rosenthal tweet that the Astros have taken Keuchel off the market, but we're busy on Cosart, Levine says:

So they’ll keep the guy they’d be selling high on and sell the guy they’re selling low on. Got it. Kinda makes you wonder where they’re finding all their new front office hires.

He sort of backs this up with stats mumbo jumbo, which of course, I find unconvincing. I don't agree with Levine's conclusion about who is high and low.

Jeff Moore, of BP wasn't that impressed with Moran: an empty 300 BA, a marginal glove, bad against lefties and scouts noticing poor body language.  Best outcome, if he can handle third, is an everyday regular.

Jason Parks noting that the young pitcher might be something, someday.

[roadrunner]

Yeah, I will say that the scouting reports on Moran in A ball have not been all that great.

[VirtualBob]

I'm really sorry to see Kike go, but the more I look at the trade the better I like it.  And as for Cosart, his July record was 1-2 with an ERA over 8, a WHIP over 2, more walks than strikeouts and less than 6 IP/start.  Did that make him a bargain or is it a sign of things to come?

We'll see.

[juliogotay]

I'm really sorry to see Kike go, but the more I look at the trade the better I like it.  And as for Cosart, his July record was 1-2 with an ERA over 8, a WHIP over 2, more walks than strikeouts and less than 6 IP/start.  Did that make him a bargain or is it a sign of things to come?

We'll see.

Yes but JC had a good June. Again, it's all about mechanics with him and I like the odds of him figuring it out sometime.  I like the trade, too, but I have concerns about Marisnick's offense. As you said, we'll see.

[BlownRanger]

Yeah, I will say that the scouting reports on Moran in A ball have not been all that great.

Well, yeah; but Peter Gammons says those scouts are all "misreading" Moran, so we actually have nothing to worry about.

[subnuclear]

Luhnow in his game interview last week said that he was very familiar with the park that Moran had been playing his minor league games in (I think he said the Cards minor leagues used to play there). He said it was a pitcher's park and he expected Moran to have better power numbers in general.

[juliogotay]

Luhnow spoke of Moran again yesterday and his expectations are that Moran will be a very good hitter with a lot of power numbers (doubles especially) and make good contact. One of the appeals is that he helps balance out the "Chris Carter types" in their lineup.

[Jacksonian]

Luhnow in his game interview last week said that he was very familiar with the park that Moran had been playing his minor league games in (I think he said the Cards minor leagues used to play there). He said it was a pitcher's park and he expected Moran to have better power numbers in general.

No but the Cardinals A+ affiliate is in the same division of the Florida State League so they would have played a lot of games in Jupiter.

[Reuben]

In general, the Luhnow regime seems to like targeting certain guys who don't have a track record of hitting HR in games, but who they seem to believe could develop power. Fisher being the major example in this year's draft, and I'd throw Moran in that category too. Conrad Gregor and Danry Vazquez also come to mind as guys who don't project as MLB bats unless they develop power. And of course Correa's HR power hasn't shown up much in games, but the Astros are not alone in believing his power will come.

[Jacksonian]

In general, the Luhnow regime seems to like targeting certain guys who don't have a track record of hitting HR in games, but who they seem to believe could develop power. Fisher being the major example in this year's draft, and I'd throw Moran in that category too. Conrad Gregor and Danry Vazquez also come to mind as guys who don't project as MLB bats unless they develop power. And of course Correa's HR power hasn't shown up much in games, but the Astros are not alone in believing his power will come.

I'd always heard he wasn't a power guy, but last year he was 3rd in the ACC in homers and tied for 30th in all D1.

[chuck]

Miami's Florida State League team plays at Roger Dean Stadium, the same venue used by the Cardinals for spring training, the Palm Beach Cardinals, St Louis' Florida State League team, and the Gulf Coast Cardinals, their Gulf Coast League team.

So I would imagine Luhnow is reasonably familiar with the stadium.