Texans Draft

[Ebby Calvin]

Clowney, Mack or trade down?

[Uncle Charlie]

If they can get two firsts and a 2014 second and 2015 third to swap with Atlanta I would trade down.  The could get more, but that is what it would take for me....otherwise it's Clowney

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

If they can get two firsts and a 2014 second and 2015 third to swap with Atlanta I would trade down.  The could get more, but that is what it would take for me....otherwise it's Clowney

This.  And if it's Clowney, cross your fingers for Bridgewater in the 2nd.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm starting to think they're going to trade.  If they trade down to 6th and pick up a second and first round pick, I'm cool with that.  Otherwide, it'd better be Clowney.  If it's Manziel, I might slit my wrists. 

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I'm starting to think they're going to trade.  If they trade down to 6th and pick up a second and first round pick, I'm cool with that.  Otherwide, it'd better be Clowney.  If it's Manziel, I might slit my wrists. 

If it's Manziel at 6 + draft picks instead of Manziel at 1, does that make any better?

[HudsonHawk]

If it's Manziel at 6 + draft picks instead of Manziel at 1, does that make any better?

No.  If they waste a pick higher than the 6th round on Manziel, I'll pitch a bitch. As an NFL prospect, I think Manziel is a second-day gamble.

[Limey]

IMHO, Manziel is no better than Keenum was coming out of college, and Keenum now has a boat load more NFL experience than Manziel.  It makes no sense for the Texans to take him.

They have been openly campaigning for someone, anyone, to make them an offer for the 1st pick.  The Texans simply picked the wrong year to suck balls, because there's no one coming out who any team would pay up to get.  They may have to take the best shitty deal they get.

I'm in the Trade > Clowney >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manziel camp.

[HudsonHawk]

If they don't get a huge trade offer, Clowney is the best player in the draft, they should just take him.  There is simply not a franchise quarterback in this draft.

[Bench]

Has any other city ever had the first pick in both MLB and NFL drafts in the same year?  I desultory google search revealed no answers.

[hostros7]

Has any other city ever had the first pick in both MLB and NFL drafts in the same year?  I desultory google search revealed no answers.

Bonus points if the other city also had no "clear #1" in either.  Super secret bonus points if the other city had 3 consecutive years of #1 picks  and no "clear #1."

[hostros7]

I'm in the Trade > Clowney >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manziel camp.

Cabinmates at this camp

[HudsonHawk]

Has any other city ever had the first pick in both MLB and NFL drafts in the same year?  I desultory google search revealed no answers.

San Diego.  Both the Padres and the Chargers had the #1 pick in 2004.  The Chargers took Eli Manning (who is now a Giant) and the Padres took Matt Bush (who is now in prison).  Neither player ever played a down/inning for the team that drafted them.

[Bench]

San Diego.  Both the Padres and the Chargers had the #1 pick in 2004.  The Chargers took Eli Manning (who is now a Giant) and the Padres took Matt Bush (who is now in prison).  Neither player ever played a down/inning for the team that drafted them.

That bodes well.

[jbm]

Really.  I thought having the first pick in EST was bad, but prison is worse.

[HudsonHawk]

And it's CLOWNEY!!!

[Uncle Charlie]

And it's CLOWNEY!!!

Locker and Henne just shit themselves

[jbm]

We can only hope Clowney becomes one motivated SOB.

I hate to see Manziel after every pick. Someone grab him.

[juliogotay]

I've gone from being a big NFL fan to a casual fan so I don't know the answer to this. The Texans drafted a DE with a first-round pick a few years back and there was a lot of popular sentiment for them drafting Vince Young. I think it was Mario Williams? Was he a bust or did he just move on?

[Ebby Calvin]

I've gone from being a big NFL fan to a casual fan so I don't know the answer to this. The Texans drafted a DE with a first-round pick a few years back and there was a lot of popular sentiment for them drafting Vince Young. I think it was Mario Williams? Was he a bust or did he just move on?

You're right - it was Mario instead of VY or Reggie Bush.
If memory serves (and it rarely does), he was good-to-great when healthy, with one stellar year.  But he kept getting dinged up and the Texans let him walk to Buffalo.
Others may remember it differently/correctly.

I think Clowney will take Mario's old jersey number, too.

[jbm]

I think the consensus is that he under-achieved, but that he was still certainly better than Vince Young or Reggie Bush.

[juliogotay]

Thanks guys.

[HudsonHawk]

I think the consensus is that he under-achieved, but that he was still certainly better than Vince Young or Reggie Bush.

I don't know that he underachieved.  He played 6 seasons, was twice a pro-bowler and once Defensive Lineman of the Year.  He's the Texans all-time leader in sacks and forced fumbles.  They moved him to linebacker when Wade Philips got here, and was off to a monstrous start until he got hurt early in the season.  They let him go due to money issues, and he's been a pro-bowler with the Bills and collected another 23.5 sacks the last two years.

[Limey]

You're right - it was Mario instead of VY or Reggie Bush.
If memory serves (and it rarely does), he was good-to-great when healthy, with one stellar year.  But he kept getting dinged up and the Texans let him walk to Buffalo.
Others may remember it differently/correctly.

He was also a giant asshat (one of the very few on the Texans then and now), which was partly due to an ego inflated by being the #1 pick that he would not have been but for the quirk of the Texans: (1) being married to David Carr (who was cut the following season); and (b) generally being crap at drafting.

[sporadic]

He was also a giant asshat (one of the very few on the Texans then and now), which was partly due to an ego inflated by being the #1 pick that he would not have been but for the quirk of the Texans: (1) being married to David Carr (who was cut the following season); and (b) generally being crap at drafting.

Williams was an asshat?  He was a productive pick, the right pick (although looking back Cutler would have been intriguing).  He might not have had the best motor, but his skillset was unquestionably worthy of the pick.  He may very well have underachieved (based on his athletic skills) but he was in no way unproductive.  He left to be paid an absurd amount of money elsewhere...I don't see why there would be any hatred of the guy from Texans fans...

[Bench]

Williams was an asshat?  He was a productive pick, the right pick (although looking back Cutler would have been intriguing).  He might not have had the best motor, but his skillset was unquestionably worthy of the pick.  He may very well have underachieved (based on his athletic skills) but he was in no way unproductive.  He left to be paid an absurd amount of money elsewhere...I don't see why there would be any hatred of the guy from Texans fans...

He drove his car too fast on 610.

[sporadic]

He drove his car too fast on 610.

drunk?

[Bench]

drunk?

No, just fast. 

[Limey]

Williams was an asshat?  He was a productive pick, the right pick (although looking back Cutler would have been intriguing).  He might not have had the best motor, but his skillset was unquestionably worthy of the pick.  He may very well have underachieved (based on his athletic skills) but he was in no way unproductive.  He left to be paid an absurd amount of money elsewhere...I don't see why there would be any hatred of the guy from Texans fans...

He was aloof at best in the locker room, surly and rude at worst.

[94CougarGrad]

Our household's Christmas wish list was an O-line for the Texans. We knew that wasn't gonna happen, so we've been in the Clowney camp for a few months. We've got one Manziel hater and three "Manziel is such an asshat" folks.

The hubby was in Vegas looong before the accusations that Manziel signed stuff for cash came out. He saw an Aggie football helmet with Manziel's signature and bought it with some of his craps winnings. Until that hit the news, everybody who saw it thought it was a fake, even when they saw the cert of authenticity. Whoops. And the guy who owned the sports memorabilia company allowed that yeah, the kid's young, but there's a difference between being young and cocky and being a douchebag, and Manziel's just a douchebag.

Now the Manziel hater in my household wants to see his "welcome to the NFL, rookie" hit come from Watt or Clowney.

[morningwood75]

Our household's Christmas wish list was an O-line for the Texans. We knew that wasn't gonna happen, so we've been in the Clowney camp for a few months. We've got one Manziel hater and three "Manziel is such an asshat" folks.

The hubby was in Vegas looong before the accusations that Manziel signed stuff for cash came out. He saw an Aggie football helmet with Manziel's signature and bought it with some of his craps winnings. Until that hit the news, everybody who saw it thought it was a fake, even when they saw the cert of authenticity. Whoops. And the guy who owned the sports memorabilia company allowed that yeah, the kid's young, but there's a difference between being young and cocky and being a douchebag, and Manziel's just a douchebag.

Now the Manziel hater in my household wants to see his "welcome to the NFL, rookie" hit come from Watt or Clowney.

Getting Su'a Filo at the top of the second (many had him as the top rated guard and a first rounder) along with getting back Brennan Williams (3rd round-2013) and Quessenberry (6th round-2013) from injuries will certainly help the offensive line next year. Guys like Fiedorowicz and Jay Prosch will help the blocking as well. Wade Smith at LG, where Su'a Filo will play most likely, was absolutely awful the past two years. He went to the Pro Bowl in 2012 based off of a decent 2010 and 2011. Newton was also pitiful at RT. Quessenberry and Williams will be the guys competing for that job. I'd be surprised if Newton even makes the team. Having a guy like Fiedo next to the RT will be nice. Daniels was a shitty blocker for us and Graham is similar in that respect.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Kind of odd that the Big 12 defensive player of the year went undrafted.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

No Longhorns or Cougars drafted, unless you count Garrett Gilbert and Charles Sims.

[Bench]

Kind of odd that the Big 12 defensive player of the year went undrafted.

The SEC defensive player of the year didn't get drafted till the 7th round.

[Lefty]

No Longhorns...drafted

If that's not an indictment of the recent regime, I dunno what is

4 Louisville players drafted in the top 75, iirc

[HudsonHawk]

If that's not an indictment of the recent regime, I dunno what is

4 Louisville players drafted in the top 75, iirc

3 Aggies in the top 22.  That should be enough to ruffle the orange feathers.

[Uncle Charlie]

The SEC defensive player of the year didn't get drafted till the 7th round.

A great college player does not always make a great, or even good, NFL player.  These guys are drafted on their potential ability in the NFL.  The knock on Sam is that he is too small to play down and too slow to play up.  Not sure what the knock om the big 12 guy is though.  It's also one of the reasons that guys like the Baylor RB and BC RB didn't go earlier.  It's a passing league and when you don't catch passes in games, that's a problem.

[sporadic]

He was aloof at best in the locker room, surly and rude at worst.

that can be a big deal, and it can not matter in the least...depends on the hierarchy of power on the team.  Charles Hailey was a pain in the ass in San Fran and Dallas, but there were no questions who was in charge those locker rooms. 

[sporadic]

A great college player does not always make a great, or even good, NFL player.  These guys are drafted on their potential ability in the NFL.  The knock on Sam is that he is too small to play down and too slow to play up.  Not sure what the knock om the big 12 guy is though.  It's also one of the reasons that guys like the Baylor RB and BC RB didn't go earlier.  It's a passing league and when you don't catch passes in games, that's a problem.

The one item Sam had going for him, though, was an endless motor.  Football is played on a field with a bunch of other guys trying to either help or impede your progress...I hate combines/pro days, etc where a guy in the media says you cannot play here of there because of your 40 time in gym shorts.  Personally, I think Sam would struggle in coverage in the 3-4 (or as an every down player), but would be a very nice rotational DE in a pass heavy division (like the NFC East).  Guys that have proven to be able to get to the QB will generally show to have some value.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

...The knock on Sam is that he is too small to play down and too slow to play up.  Not sure what the knock om the big 12 guy is though.  It's also one of the reasons that guys like the Baylor RB and BC RB didn't go earlier.  It's a passing league and when you don't catch passes in games, that's a problem.

Not sure what the knock against Jefffcoat was either, but I assume it was similar to Sam's. He got picked up by Seattle after the draft so he'll have a shot to make the best defensive team in the NFL. Might work out better for him than if he had got picked in the seventh round by the Texans or some other shitty team.

[mrpink]

He was aloof at best in the locker room, surly and rude at worst.

The horror!!

[juliogotay]

Not sure what the knock against Jefffcoat was either, but I assume it was similar to Sam's. He got picked up by Seattle after the draft so he'll have a shot to make the best defensive team in the NFL. Might work out better for him than if he had got picked in the seventh round by the Texans or some other shitty team.

Jeffcoat is undersized for a down lineman and probably slow for an OLB. He doesn't measure well in upper-body strength and has lost great parts of two seasons with pectoral tears. I hope there is a place for him in the league because he's a class guy and his motor runs high all the time.

[Bench]

Andre Johnson:  "Is this still the place for me?

Oh, right.  Fitzpatrick and Keenum and Savage oh my.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Andre Johnson:  "Is this still the place for me?

Oh, right.  Fitzpatrick and Keenum and Savage oh my.

I don't blame him.  O'Brian Ball is probably going to about as much fun to watch as the Big 10.

[Uncle Charlie]

I don't blame him.  O'Brian Ball is probably going to about as much fun to watch as the Big 10.

This should have been worked out before the draft though.  Given the contract, there is absolutely no way that they can/will keep him beyond this season without a restructure.  They knew they were unlikely to be in a position to get to the playoffs given the college talent and the way FA QBs fell out this year.  Smith & O'Brien drafted for smash-mouth football too.  At this point, the Texans options are very limited in what they can do with him - everyone is in a bad place.  Surely they knew this was an issue before the weekend?!?!?

[HudsonHawk]

I don't blame him.  O'Brian Ball is probably going to about as much fun to watch as the Big 10.

I highly disagree.  I *like* 3 yards and a cloud of dust, smashmout football.  That's real football, not to mention it's been the Texans achilles heel for the last 7 years.

[austro]

However, we haven't seen a lot of those teams winning Super Bowls recently.

[HudsonHawk]

However, we haven't seen a lot of those teams winning Super Bowls recently.

Aside from pretty much all of them?  Name me one Super Bowl winning team that couldn't push the ball in on four tries from the 1-yard line.

[austro]

Aside from pretty much all of them?  Name me one Super Bowl winning team that couldn't push the ball in on four tries from the 1-yard line.

That's not the definition of a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" team. Let's flip that question around: what was the last Super Bowl winning team that didn't pass the ball as much as they ran it?

[HudsonHawk]

That's not the definition of a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" team. Let's flip that question around: what was the last Super Bowl winning team that didn't pass the ball as much as they ran it?

The 2013 Seattle Seahawks, who led the NFL in running %.

[Lefty]

Shit, I've seen Cuban sedans backfire less than that question.

[austro]

The 2013 Seattle Seahawks, who led the NFL in running %.

And for the season, they rushed on 54.79% of their plays. They were one of 5 teams over 50%.

You and I may use different definitions, but by my reckoning that's not a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust team. That's not to say that they can't grind out a few yards when they need to, because they obviously can. But it's not the old Woody Hayes mentality, either.

Curiously, the Vikings were under 44%. That surprised me, especially considering who they had to rely on when they decided to throw it.

[HudsonHawk]

And for the season, they rushed on 54.79% of their plays. They were one of 5 teams over 50%.

You and I may use different definitions, but by my reckoning that's not a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust team. That's not to say that they can't grind out a few yards when they need to, because they obviously can. But it's not the old Woody Hayes mentality, either.

Obviously the forward pass has been legalized now, but my point is that the Texans *can't* punch it in on four tries from the 1 yard line.  They are built for between the 20s.  That's nice when you're between the 20s, but it means a lot of field goals.  They simply have not been a physical team under Kubiak, and it's been a major problem.  I'm looking forward to that changing.

[austro]

Obviously the forward pass has been legalized now, but my point is that the Texans *can't* punch it in on four tries from the 1 yard line.  They are built for between the 20s.  That's nice when you're between the 20s, but it means a lot of field goals.  They simply have not been a physical team under Kubiak, and it's been a major problem.  I'm looking forward to that changing.

You'll get no disagreement from me on that. I'd be happy if they could run the ball well enough that they didn't need a better QB than Fitzpatrick.

[Jose Cruz III]

The SEC defensive player of the year didn't get drafted till the 7th round.

And look at the coverage he got for being the SECPOY. The world must love the SEC.

[Mr. Happy]

And look at the coverage he got for being the SECPOY. The world must love the SEC.

I strongly suspect that he got all that coverage for different reasons.

[Jacksonian]

Aside from pretty much all of them?  Name me one Super Bowl winning team that couldn't push the ball in on four tries from the 1-yard line.

New Orleans?

[Jose Cruz III]

I strongly suspect that he got all that coverage for different reasons.

What could that be? Being SECDefensivePOY is a big deal. Don't get much bigger than that.

[Bench]

And Fitzpatrick is anointed starting QB.  I'm shocked that Andre isn't rushing back to training camp.

[jbm]

It's a done deal, they focused on defense in the draft and the QB likely will be middling.  That's been well known and established since the draft.  So, what is the point of Andre sitting out?  Is he contemplating retirement, trying to get traded, or just whining?

[Lefty]

And Fitzpatrick is anointed starting QB.  I'm shocked that Andre isn't rushing back to training camp.

Has he already lost the million dollar bonus?

[hostros7]

Has he already lost the million dollar bonus?

No, I think that's the aggregate fine if he skips everything up to just about the regular season.  The fines for mandatory training camp will less be than the cost of a murdered out Rover.

[HudsonHawk]

It's a done deal, they focused on defense in the draft and the QB likely will be middling.  That's been well known and established since the draft.  So, what is the point of Andre sitting out?  Is he contemplating retirement, trying to get traded, or just whining?

He's whining and trying to get traded.  I like Andre.  I understand his frustration.  I don't disagree with his sentiment.  But he's made his point.  He's under contract.  He needs to shut up and get to training camp. 

[Duke]

He's whining and trying to get traded.  I like Andre.  I understand his frustration.  I don't disagree with his sentiment.  But he's made his point.  He's under contract.  He needs to shut up and get to training camp. 

Agreed.  He needs reps with the new QB.

[HudsonHawk]

Agreed.  He needs reps with the new QB.

Especially now that the Texans have annointed an interception throwing machine as their starting QB.

[Uncle Charlie]

He's whining and trying to get traded.  I like Andre.  I understand his frustration.  I don't disagree with his sentiment.  But he's made his point.  He's under contract.  He needs to shut up and get to training camp. 

He's really starting to damage his reputation at this point.