Airline Scorecards for 2013

[Navin R Johnson]

As a frequent flyer, (formerly CO now UA) I found this interesting.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304347904579308640380117768

I have heard several complaints about SWA's product declining, that would be in line with their score this year.   2nd to last in bump rate, 3rd to last in On Time arrivals and last in baggage handling.  The baggage thing is somewhat understandable as I am sure they handle way more than the rest of the carriers, but they mishandled more bags than Delta and United combined.

[juliogotay]

I used to fly alot for business. That ended about 1999. I am grateful for not having to endure that today.

[HudsonHawk]

No surprise, really, that United is at the bottom.  Again.  As for Southwest, part of it is being victim of their own success.  You mention the bag handling thing...they'd score much higher if they simply charged for bags, refused certain bags and not let people check bags late.  That score is being done in, somewhat, by their push for customer service.  Secondly, their on-time arrival rate is lower because they push the limits of those numbers.  They don't sandbag their departure and arrival times like everyone else and schedule three hours on the ground at every stop.  They seem to be the only domestic airline that has figured out that if the plane is not in the air, they're not making money.  So while it hurts their score in this survey, they're kicking everyone else's ass in getting planes off the ground and to the next destination.

[BizidyDizidy]

United really is amazingly shitty (do they fly any planes domestically that weren't built by the Wright brothers? - I shudder everytime I get on and see full CRT TVs hanging from the ceiling).

[HudsonHawk]

United really is amazingly shitty (do they fly any planes domestically that weren't built by the Wright brothers? - I shudder everytime I get on and see full CRT TVs hanging from the ceiling).

I've flown the 787 Dreamliner with them. 

[BizidyDizidy]

I've flown the 787 Dreamliner with them. 

How was it? I think I'll be on one when we go to Tokyo in March.

[HudsonHawk]

How was it? I think I'll be on one when we go to Tokyo in March.

It was a nice new plane.  The larger windows are nice and the overhead bin space is larger and less obtrusive, making the cabin feel more open.  But it's the same old United seat design and surly fligh attendants.  Perhaps the booze and mood lighting will help you on the long haul.  Flying business class or coach?

[BizidyDizidy]

Coach there, business back (that's what was available on miles).

[Limey]

I've flown the 787 Dreamliner with them. 

Economy?  Those seats are made for Hobbits.

[HudsonHawk]

Coach there, business back (that's what was available on miles).

Ouch.  That's a long fuckin' flight in coach.  I'm going to Bangkok next week, which stops in Tokyo, but luckily business each way.  Even that is a long fuckin' flight.

[HudsonHawk]

Economy?  Those seats are made for Hobbits.

Yes, even the new plane has the standard "anorexic dwarf" seat design.

[BizidyDizidy]

On the way there we layover in SF, so that helps a tiny bit, but still will be very painful.

[Limey]

Coach there, business back (that's what was available on miles).

See above.  I was shocked to see the seats at the back when returning on one from Denver.  All the great stuff about the 787 is negated by UA's 4th class seating.

Also, they charge for booze in coach - even on international flights.  $7 for a bud.

Fuck United.

[HudsonHawk]

On the way there we layover in SF, so that helps a tiny bit, but still will be very painful.

It really just prolongs the agony.  Luckily, I fly straight from Houston to Tokyo. 

[HudsonHawk]

See above.  I was shocked to see the seats at the back when returning on one from Denver.  All the great stuff about the 787 is negated by UA's 4th class seating.

Also, they charge for booze in coach - even on international flights.  $7 for a bud.

Fuck United.

Free booze is the only thing that makes international travel tolerable. 

[BizidyDizidy]

It really just prolongs the agony.  Luckily, I fly straight from Houston to Tokyo. 

We are flying from Houston, but no reward availability on that flight.

My physique is not exactly what you would describe as anorexic dwarf, so I'm really looking forward to it.

[Limey]

Free booze is the only thing that makes international travel tolerable. 

Hence my personal choice to fly BA to London.  I will take BA economy over UA's business class any day on the Heathrow flight.  UA are running 767s on that route, 767s that sport decades-old facilities.

[Limey]

We are flying from Houston, but no reward availability on that flight.

My physique is not exactly what you would describe as anorexic dwarf, so I'm really looking forward to it.

I have been told that, as long as you let the cabin staff open the bottles - which they will do and provide you with set-ups as required - you can drink your own booze on the flight.  You have to carry it in a ziplock baggie in order to get through security, though, so you're limited to however many 3oz bottles you can cram into one.

[BizidyDizidy]

I have been told that, as long as you let the cabin staff open the bottles - which they will do and provide you with set-ups as required - you can drink your own booze on the flight.  You have to carry it in a ziplock baggie in order to get through security, though, so you're limited to however many 3oz bottles you can cram into one.

I was just planning to shoot up before boarding.

[HudsonHawk]

I have been told that, as long as you let the cabin staff open the bottles - which they will do and provide you with set-ups as required - you can drink your own booze on the flight.  You have to carry it in a ziplock baggie in order to get through security, though, so you're limited to however many 3oz bottles you can cram into one.

I open my own bottles all the time. 

[HudsonHawk]

Hence my personal choice to fly BA to London.  I will take BA economy over UA's business class any day on the Heathrow flight.  UA are running 767s on that route, 767s that sport decades-old facilities.

I've never flown business on a 767, but I can't imagine anyone's coach being better than anyone's business class.  I've only flown United business on the 747 and 777, however.

On a side note, United is stopping their service to Bangkok, and all their routes there will be served by ANA.  I'm flying United *to* BKK, but ANA *from*.  I've never flown ANA, but from what I understand there's not much difference. 

[Limey]

I've never flown business on a 767, but I can't imagine anyone's coach being better than anyone's business class.  I've only flown United business on the 747 and 777, however.

Food, service and in-flight entertainment way, way better.  Plus, the econ seats on BA are very livable, even for me, on a 10-hour flight.  Also, bags fly free.  Oh, and it's a fraction of the cost, which matters to me even when on business (airline savings for taking a lesser class are added directly to the bonus pool and those who don't participate in cost savings are penalised accordingly at bonus time).

On a side note, United is stopping their service to Bangkok, and all their routes there will be served by ANA.  I'm flying United *to* BKK, but ANA *from*.  I've never flown ANA, but from what I understand there's not much difference.  

I took Continental from Houston to Seoul via Tokyo once.   Once!

[HudsonHawk]

Food, service and in-flight entertainment way, way better.  Plus, the econ seats on BA are very livable, even for me, on a 10-hour flight.  Also, bags fly free.

What's better than free booze *and* lie flat seats?  Bags fly free on UA business too.

[Limey]

I was just planning to shoot up before boarding.

Fly via Denver.  Step outside and take a good, long deep breath.  You'll be good to go for the rest of the trip.

[Navin R Johnson]

I fly domestic only, about 75 segments a year, so I can't speak to the international side of things.   I loved Continental and miss it, but I really haven't had too many issues with  United.....

Now United "Express" is a whole other story.  I avoid UAX flights when at all possible.  The only flights I have ever had issues on are the regional jets.  In my experience their on time rate is about 50%, whereas the mainline stuff I rarely get delayed and have never been cancelled.

[Limey]

I fly domestic only, about 75 segments a year, so I can't speak to the international side of things.   I loved Continental and miss it, but I really haven't had too many issues with  United.....

I have never had a flight with United that has not been fucked up in some way - except the Dreamliner flight from Denver which was accomplished without slap-dickery but still required me (a much more svelte me in recent years) to cram into their illogically small economy seats.

My domestic airline of preference is Southwest, because:

1)  Bags fly free (worth $100 per trip when Mrs Limey and I go away for a weekend)
2)  Boarding is relatively simple if you're not worried about an aisle seat (United has now...what?  5 classes for boarding?)
3)  The staff are nice
4)  The seats are a good size and comfortable (better than what United give you for even long haul flights)
5)  Most routes have a non-stop option from Hobby (I hate IAH and Hobby's much closer/quicker)

[Limey]

I have never had a flight with United that has not been fucked up in some way - except the Dreamliner flight from Denver ...

Correction:  I did fly on a twin turbo-prop from Houston to Montrose, CO a couple of years ago.  The flight was awesome.  There was something about the thrum of the turbo-prop engines that gave the whole flight a relaxed feel.  Plus, I had plenty of drink vouchers to keep the double vodkas flowing.  That was a flawless trip.

[Bench]

2)  Boarding is relatively simple if you're not worried about an aisle seat (United has now...what?  5 classes for boarding?)

I've been flying mostly Southwest the last couple of years but had to fly United a few months ago.  This absolutely baffled me.

[Limey]

I've been flying mostly Southwest the last couple of years but had to fly United a few months ago.  This absolutely baffled me.

United looked at their existing system and decided to make it much, much worse.  People who need help are now boarded somewhere in the middle; people with kids get no priority whatsoever; and they have added additional ranks of boarding classes to confuse people - many of whom are already too stupid to board a plane without causing chaos anyway.  It's a clusterfuck.

Meanwhile, Southwest get a full flight locked and loaded in a fraction of the time.

[Navin R Johnson]

United looked at their existing system and decided to make it much, much worse.  People who need help are now boarded somewhere in the middle; people with kids get no priority whatsoever; and they have added additional ranks of boarding classes to confuse people - many of whom are already too stupid to board a plane without causing chaos anyway.  It's a clusterfuck.

Meanwhile, Southwest get a full flight locked and loaded in a fraction of the time.

That is incorrect, People with disabilities are boarded first along with Military personnel.

Everyone has a boarding group, and they call the group # out and you board.  It isn't A,B,C,D..it is 1,2,3,4,5   SWA does a much better job of setting up the boarding process to where the lines don't extend into the concourse and reek havoc, but after that there isn't that much difference.

I have only flown SWA probably 3 times in the last 2 years, I agree with most that their staff is great, but I didn't notice much difference in the seats.  I dont have to pay for any bags for me or more wife to be checked, so that isn't a check mark in SWAs favor.  I absolutely can't stand that you can't pick your own seat with SWA.  I flew in an exit row or bulkhead or 1st for 98% of my UA flights, that is the biggest deal breaker for me when it comes to SWA.

Maybe if I got horrific service over and over I would contemplate switching, but that just hasn't been my experience.  If I did switch it would likely be to Delta.

[Limey]

Everyone has a boarding group, and they call the group # out and you board.  It isn't A,B,C,D..it is 1,2,3,4,5   SWA does a much better job of setting up the boarding process to where the lines don't extend into the concourse and reek havoc, but after that there isn't that much difference.

The problem isn't the number of groups, it's that the groups don't match the rows.  They have a separate priority system for boarding, so you could be boarding last but be in row 100.  Airlines board from the front or the back to ease the process; United throws seat numbers into a bingo tumbler.

[Navin R Johnson]

The biggest factor, in the clusterfuck that has become boarding, is the checked bag fees. Everyone is carrying on bags now.   More bags doubles the board time, that is why SWAs boarding process is so much faster.  It has basically become thunderdome when it comes to overhead space.  I have saw 3 near fights break out last year.

[BizidyDizidy]

Fly via Denver.  Step outside and take a good, long deep breath.  You'll be good to go for the rest of the trip.

Now that you mention it, I do have a 3 hour layover in Denver on the way back....

[Ron Brand]

You elitist fucks. I fly about once every five years on whatever carrier takes me wherever the hell I'm going. This reads like the First World Problems Bitch Board.

[WakePhil]

I've never flown ANA, but from what I understand there's not much difference. 

Business? I flew ANA in business class from Tokyo to Singapore recently. It was a 767. Small seats for business class (smaller than United's 767 seats), don't lay flat, worse monitors. They did have a big screen which showed a camera on the nose or landing gear during take-off. That was interesting.

I remember thinking it was quite a bit worse than United at the time, but I flew United on the 777 from Houston to Tokyo. I've since flown the United 767 a handful of times and I still prefer United's set up, but ANA was more similar to what I experienced on ANA. My Japanese friends said they were known for better service.

[chuck]

You elitist fucks. I fly about once every five years on whatever carrier takes me wherever the hell I'm going. This reads like the First World Problems Bitch Board.

Do you know that the United Club now CHARGES for premium liquor?!?! The horror... the horror.

[HudsonHawk]

Do you know that the United Club now CHARGES for premium liquor?!?! The horror... the horror.

I didn't even know they *had* premium liquor.  They have these really cool beer dispensers at Narita though.

[chuck]

I didn't even know they *had* premium liquor.  They have these really cool beer dispensers at Narita though.

Those are AWESOME. But in Narita they're in the One World Club, not the Star Alliance Club.

[Ron Brand]

Anyone fly in Africa? Safe landing in the grass is the de luxe reward on some of those flights. Like flying a Jeep with wings.

[chuck]

Anyone fly in Africa? Safe landing in the grass is the de luxe reward on some of those flights. Like flying a Jeep with wings.

Tunis Air, baby, nonstop to Djerba.

[BizidyDizidy]

Tunis Air, baby, nonstop to Djerba.

I flew on Tuninter once to Palermo. Couldn't say it was worse than United.

[OregonStrosFan]

Hey now, United is a fantastic airline and is a joy to fly!*

[*In full disclosure, I probably should add that United has a different retired employee pass system than Continental did. Thus, after being without passes since my dad retired 30 years ago, I now find myself with passes (space available) once again. Accordingly, my satisfaction with United may be directly related to the amount I now have to pay to fly (if I don't mind being 'flexible' with my departure and arrival times, and don't mind hanging around in airports for extended periods of time here and again)].

[Ron Brand]

We had one jaunt that started out in a smallish jet, then every leg subsequent was in something smaller with fewer engines until the last one, which was some renovated thing out of a long-past decade that had no company markings and we landed on a pretty flat piece of ground. Out of nowhere there were beggars of course, and people hawking trinkets.

My recollection is that there were seat belts, but not a whole lot else.

[chuck]

I flew on Tuninter once to Palermo. Couldn't say it was worse than United.

I'm not kidding, though. I flew Tunis Air to Djerba. It was more or less like the flight you reference except we landed on a runway of sorts. Dry land, anyway. Real dry.

[MusicMan]

I will take BA economy over UA's business class any day on the Heathrow flight.  UA are running 767s on that route, 767s that sport decades-old facilities.

QFT

[Ebby Calvin]

I like UA because I have miles with them and can get a free flight here and there.  That's the only thing I like about them. 

[Ron Brand]

I'm not kidding, though. I flew Tunis Air to Djerba. It was more or less like the flight you reference except we landed on a runway of sorts. Dry land, anyway. Real dry.

Evidently flying, when you can, is vastly preferable in third world countries to taking ground transport. My experience, limited though it is, bears that out.

[chuck]

Evidently flying, when you can, is vastly preferable in third world countries to taking ground transport. My experience, limited though it is, bears that out.

Well, I don't know. I ended up taking a bus all over the place and that was fine. My experience in domestic air transport in various third world countries including the one in which I live is very limited. Or, really, I have no such experience other than that one jaunt to Houmt Souk. But I think I mentioned a while back that I once flew to Abilene. That has to count for something.

[BizidyDizidy]

I'm not kidding, though. I flew Tunis Air to Djerba. It was more or less like the flight you reference except we landed on a runway of sorts. Dry land, anyway. Real dry.

I really did Tunis to Palermo as well (pretty sure it was a prop plane, this was probably almost 15 years ago now).

[Ron Brand]

But I think I mentioned a while back that I once flew to Abilene. That has to count for something.

Flying in and out of Pecos had some similarities to Africa except I got to sit in the copilot's seat on the way in. On the way out I was sitting sideways in the back on some of our gear - the few seats were taken - and I was green from about Waco on in to Austin. Landed on a real runway though.

[Limey]

They have these really cool beer dispensers at Narita though.

I had a 4-hour layover, so I just pulled a chair up to that and sat there making and drinking awesome draft beers.

[Bench]

My experience in domestic air transport in various third world countries including the one in which I live is very limited. Or, really, I have no such experience other than that one jaunt to Houmt Souk. But I think I mentioned a while back that I once flew to Abilene. That has to count for something.

Costa Rica's Nature Air was surprisingly comfortable and efficient. 

[HudsonHawk]

But I think I mentioned a while back that I once flew to Abilene. That has to count for something.

Reminds me of the Ron While joke about flying from Beaumont to Houston. 

"I had to fly from Beaumont to Houston because my manager doesn't own a globe.  We flew at the speed of smell."

[Navin R Johnson]

Speaking of Beaumont and airports and United.  If you book a United flight out of Beaumont now, they put you in a bus and drive you to IAH.

[HudsonHawk]

Speaking of Beaumont and airports and United.  If you book a United flight out of Beaumont now, they put you in a bus and drive you to IAH.

Continental used to fly from IAH to Hobby.

[homer]

Continental used to fly from IAH to Hobby.

And IAH to Ellington.

[chuck]

I flew from Ellington to IAH once just to say I did. So now I'm saying it.

[Ron Brand]

I never saw Duke Ellington, but I did see Count Basie.

[Ty in Tampa]

Why I was first flying from Tampa home to Galveston, I would take the Continental non-stop Tampa to IAH and they would throw in the leg from IAH to Ellington. Saved my folks a long trip to North Houston from the island.