Texas Lemon Laws

[Limey]

As one of the minority of non-lawyers here, I need some help with Texas Lemon Laws.  Anyone recommend a good firm/attorney?

I have an 18-month old BMW with 16k on the clock.  Late last year, I took it in for service because it was having trouble starting and also running rough at idle.  They replaced the fuel pressure monitor.  The problem persisted, so next time they cleaned the injectors.  Third time back, they changed the battery (yep, I said "WTF?" too).  Same problem.

Last time (#4), I dealt with the service manager because of the layers of rage built up over this saga.  He told me that the injectors have a design flaw, have been redesigned by BMW, but they aren't doing a recall.  They ordered the new-design injectors from Germany and installed them.  That did the trick.  I was pissed off because (1) seriously BMW?  No recall?; and (b) it was a known issue that applies to any model with the same size engine - why so many visits to figure it out?  But, in the end, it was fixed.

Then, last night, luckily just pulling away from outside my house, the engine died.  Just quit.  While we were moving.  I was stranded, blocking the road.  Eventually, it did restart although it was like it was running on 1 or 2 cylinders, but I was able at least to limp it back to the house.

What if that hadn't been on a side street?  What if that had been on a freeway, or in an intersection, or crossing the rail tracks downtown?

I want my money back.

[austro]

Perhaps you can sell it to someone from Randall's.

[Limey]

Perhaps you can sell it to someone from Randall's.

Now yer chunkin'.

[Limey]

Actually, BMW offered to trade me out into a new car.  I told them they can keep it - I don't want another BMW with the same design faults.  They're going to talk to HQ on Monday.  I am semi-hopeful.

[austro]

Actually, BMW offered to trade me out into a new car.  I told them they can keep it - I don't want another BMW with the same design faults.  They're going to talk to HQ on Monday.  I am semi-hopeful.

That's a much more generous response than I would have expected.

I have a friend who went out to his garage to find his Porsche Boxster sitting in a pool of oil. Some rear seal had given up, and the engine had to be replaced. Apparently this is a common problem, but not something they'll do anything about proactively. The dealer eventually *did* furnish a new engine, but my friend still had to pay the labor to install it.

[Limey]

That's a much more generous response than I would have expected.

Well, I still have to see what they come up with.  I suspect that their first offer will be some sort of discount on the penalty to terminate the lease.  That won't fly, considering that the Lemon Law states that they have to give me back every cent I've paid on the lease, and then I pay them for fair usage.  But, if I get an offer just to walk away, I'll take it.

[Limey]

I have a friend who went out to his garage to find his Porsche Boxster sitting in a pool of oil. Some rear seal had given up, and the engine had to be replaced. Apparently this is a common problem, but not something they'll do anything about proactively. The dealer eventually *did* furnish a new engine, but my friend still had to pay the labor to install it.

That's BS.  Was it out of warranty?

Any company can have a bad day - how they deal with it is the measure of the them.

[HudsonHawk]

That's BS.  Was it out of warranty?

Any company can have a bad day - how they deal with it is the measure of the them.

I once, foolishly, bought a Saturn.  The engine blew out at around 30,000 miles.  I took it to the local dealership, owned by NASCAR man Rick Hendrick, and they said "what do you want *us* to do about it?"  I called Saturn corporate, and they laughed at me.  I don't mean figuratively, I mean they literally laughed in my face.  One of the happiest days of my life was when that shitbag of a company went out of business.

[Limey]

I once, foolishly, bought a Saturn.  The engine blew out at around 30,000 miles.  I took it to the local dealership, owned by NASCAR man Rick Hendrick, and they said "what do you want *us* to do about it?"  I called Saturn corporate, and they laughed at me.  I don't mean figuratively, I mean they literally laughed in my face.  One of the happiest days of my life was when that shitbag of a company went out of business.

Driving 30,000 miles in a Saturn, you should have been used to people laughing at you. 

[austro]

That's BS.  Was it out of warranty?

I think it was out of warrant wrt months, but it was still low mileage. Don't know for sure.

Every once in a while I think about a fancier car, but I haven't had a lick of trouble with my Acura over 6+ years, so I think I'll just keep on with it.

[HudsonHawk]

Driving 30,000 miles in a Saturn, you should have been used to people laughing at you.  

I was getting 36 mpg, and it was fun to drive (a pepply little 5 speed stick), so I was happy at the time.  I just didn't know that a tank of gas would last longer than the motor.

[Waldo]

I took it to the local dealership, owned by NASCAR man Rick Hendrick, and they said "what do you want *us* to do about it?"  I called Saturn corporate, and they laughed at me.  I don't mean figuratively, I mean they literally laughed in my face.

"A different kind of car company.  A different kind of car."

[Savage]

  One of the happiest days of my life was when that shitbag of a company went out of business.

Don't be too excited.  It was just a division of GM.  Your tax dollars at work!

[HudsonHawk]

Don't be too excited.  It was just a division of GM.  Your tax dollars at work!

Before it was GM, it was an independent company. Then it went completely under. I hope all those fuckers are still unemployed.

[ybbodeus]

Before it was GM, it was an independent company.

Where did you hear that?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Before it was GM, it was an independent company. Then it went completely under. I hope all those fuckers are still unemployed.

I thought it was started by GM.

[chuck]

All I know is that Saturn invited all Saturn owners to sort of family get together somewhere in Tennessee near their factory. I guess that was the original lemon party.

[ybbodeus]

It was a wholly owned subsidiary of GM. Roger Smith broke the word of the project to the media. He even drove the first one off the production line.

I had moved to Houston as Mazda's District Manager in late '89, and the whole Saturn mystery was becoming a prolonged conversation piece at that time.

Maybe hh means independent of Detroit, but even that only applied to manufacturing. It was GM's baby.

[HudsonHawk]

It was a wholly owned subsidiary of GM. Roger Smith broke the word of the project to the media. He even drove the first one off the production line.

I had moved to Houston as Mazda's District Manager in late '89, and the whole Saturn mystery was becoming a prolonged conversation piece at that time.

Maybe hh means independent of Detroit, but even that only applied to manufacturing. It was GM's baby.

I mean that it operated independently of the GM conglomerate.  They had their own factory, their own management, their own pricing structure, their own distribution network, etc etc.  Essentially, they were of the same model as many of the European car makers now, such as Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Ferarri, etc or Chrysler is now.  Subsidiaries of a larger company, but operate/market mostly independently.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Limey, what Beemer model did you have?  I've got a friend who's had very similar issues with his 335i.  As great as that twin-turbo six performs, the fuel delivery system apparently is shit.

[Limey]

Limey, what Beemer model did you have?  I've got a friend who's had very similar issues with his 335i.  As great as that twin-turbo six performs, the fuel delivery system apparently is shit.

Mine's a 650i.  If you Google "bmw injector problem", you will crash Google.  The order for the new design of injectors for my car was, apparently, part of a bulk buy as they had parade of rough-running BMWs that needed the fix.

Seeing as mine then totally shit the bed - while moving with my foot on the gas - I'm guessing the issue is more fundamental than just the injectors.  Mine has the same twin-turbo V8 as is in all of the V8 models they currently put out.  If those are all fucked and the twin-turbo V6s are also fucked, then BMW is in big, big trouble.

[Bench]

Mine's a 650i.  If you Google "bmw injector problem", you will crash Google.  The order for the new design of injectors for my car was, apparently, part of a bulk buy as they had parade of rough-running BMWs that needed the fix.

Seeing as mine then totally shit the bed - while moving with my foot on the gas - I'm guessing the issue is more fundamental than just the injectors.  Mine has the same twin-turbo V8 as is in all of the V8 models they currently put out.  If those are all fucked and the twin-turbo V6s are also fucked, then BMW is in big, big trouble.

German engineering has just gone to hell since the early '40s. 

[HudsonHawk]

German engineering has just gone to hell since the early '40s. 

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but aren't a significant number BMW's "engineered" in the US now?

[VirtualBob]

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but aren't a significant number BMW's "engineered" in the US now?

Yes.  Spartanburg, SC.  Like Bench already said:

German engineering has just gone to hell since the early '40s. 

And if you are not familiar with Spartanburg, just trust me on this one.

[Limey]

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but aren't a significant number BMW's "engineered" in the US now?

Built, certainly.  DOn't know about "engineered".  But I'm sure the engines are designed in the bunker at HQ in Bavaria.

[Bench]

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but aren't a significant number BMW's "engineered" in the US now?

Exactly.  And you sure as hell didn't see the showers at Auschwitz suddenly stop working without issuing a comprehensive recall. 

[homer]

Exactly.  And you sure as hell didn't see the showers at Auschwitz suddenly stop working without issuing a comprehensive recall. 

Wow.

[ybbodeus]

Built, certainly.  DOn't know about "engineered".  But I'm sure the engines are designed in the bunker at HQ in Bavaria.

True. Would be very unsquarehead-like for them to sublet engineering to furiners. Then again, double-H did use quotations.

[Limey]

Well, I still have to see what they come up with.  I suspect that their first offer will be some sort of discount on the penalty to terminate the lease.  That won't fly, considering that the Lemon Law states that they have to give me back every cent I've paid on the lease, and then I pay them for fair usage.  But, if I get an offer just to walk away, I'll take it.

A week later, and BMW still not giving me any definitive answers on what they are going to do.  In the meantime, the loaner they gave me got wrecked when an idiot in a pick-up truck ploughed into me on 610.  His insurance has accepted 100% responsibility, but now I am without a car (since Tuesday) and BMW won't return my phone calls.

Next call they get will be from the attorney I just engaged.

[EasTexAstro]

Have you thought about going with public transportation?

[HudsonHawk]

Have you thought about going with public transportation?

Chuck loves using public transportation when his BMW is in the shop.

[Limey]

Have you thought about going with public transportation?

I have been waiting at the light rail stop by my house that was supposed to be in service in 2011.  No train as yet, but it's only been a few days.

[JimR]

I have been waiting at the light rail stop by my house that was supposed to be in service in 2011.  No train as yet, but it's only been a few days.

it is coming. i can hear it. i think it is right around the bend.

[Limey]

it is coming. i can hear it. i think it is right around the bend.

It's a long wait for a train don't come.


[If that doesn't draw the ferret, nothing will].

[Bench]

It's a long wait for a train don't come.


[If that doesn't draw the ferret, nothing will].

Usually any discussion about public transportation draws out Arky.

I must say that you are the singularly the most unfortunate consumer I've ever known. 

[Limey]

Usually any discussion about public transportation draws out Arky.

That was a quote from Serenity.

I must say that you are the singularly the most unfortunate consumer I've ever known. 

I'd had 1 minor love tap from behind (NTTAWWT) in 17 years of driving in Houston.  In the last 2 years, I've been whacked three times in three different BMWs.  This is the first one I've owned that's had major reliability issues (8 years in BMWs to date).  However, as BP and Carnival now know very well, it's not how good you are at avoiding problems, it how good you are when you have one.  BMW have shit the bed on this one.

[HudsonHawk]

it is coming. i can hear it. i think it is right around the bend.

Good. Cause Limey ain't seen the sunshine in he don't know when. 

[Ron Brand]

Good. Cause Limey ain't seen the sunshine in he don't know when. 

He's really not the country kind.

[ybbodeus]

Just make sure you don't get in any fights in Reno, Limey.

[Limey]

Just make sure you don't get in any fights in Reno, Limey.

I'm BMW weren't already downtown, I would take them there.

[chuck]

Chuck loves using public transportation when his BMW is in the shop.

You know, once when my car was in the shop I traveled to an engagement with Limey himself in his rental car. Of course this was back before I had any idea that going anywhere with Limey in a rental car could be such a hazard.

Been in the country much too long trying to be a farmer but nothing that I planted ever seemed to grow.

[chuck]

I'm BMW weren't already downtown, I would take them there.

Oh. Now I understand fully. Those people literally add new depth of meaning to the word incompetent.

The one time I took my ride over there they fucked things up so badly, misunderstood or disobeyed my instructions so thoroughly that I was seized by an attack of uncontrollable rage right there in the showroom. I can't remember exactly what I was shouting but it was enough to where someone eventually brought the car around and gave me my keys and suggested I be on my way without bothering to charge me for any of the work they had allegedly done.

So, yeah, I understand now.

[Guinness]

First world problems are such a bitch...

[Limey]

You know, once when my car was in the shop I traveled to an engagement with Limey himself in his rental car. Of course this was back before I had any idea that going anywhere with Limey in a rental car could be such a hazard.

In my defense, the entire State of Florida is populated with fuckwits who can't drive.

[Ty in Tampa]

In my defense, the entire State of Florida is populated with fuckwits who can't drive.

I forgive you for lumping me into your observation. Florida in March is about the worst place to drive when you have to actually get somewhere.

[Noe]

In my defense, the entire State of Florida is populated with fuckwits who can't drive.

It would help matters if you drove on the right side of the road. Just saying.

[JimR]

I forgive you for lumping me into your observation. Florida in March is about the worst place to drive when you have to actually get somewhere.

especially from Tampa to Orlando or vice versa

[HudsonHawk]

especially from Tampa to Orlando or vice versa

It's all those backward ass country folks in Plant City and Lakeland.

[BudGirl]

I always let someone else drive.  Lessens my stress.

[EasTexAstro]

I always let someone else drive.  Lessens my stress.

Have you seen Limey's recent adventures?

[BudGirl]

Have you seen Limey's recent adventures?

For some reason your post made me think of Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

And yes, I skimmed those posts.

[EasTexAstro]

For some reason your post made me think of Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

And yes, I skimmed those posts.

Wasn't Peewee arrested in Florida for something?

OK, so don't ride with Peewee or Limey in Florida.

[Mr. Happy]

I always let someone else drive.  Lessens my stress.

+1 Even though I'm usually driving when there are other people in my car (which isn't often), it's usually only because I am the only sober one in the car (thank God). Otherwise, I'm a very happy passenger, even with Limey.

[Mr. Happy]

Oh. Now I understand fully. Those people literally add new depth of meaning to the word incompetent.

The one time I took my ride over there they fucked things up so badly, misunderstood or disobeyed my instructions so thoroughly that I was seized by an attack of uncontrollable rage right there in the showroom. I can't remember exactly what I was shouting but it was enough to where someone eventually brought the car around and gave me my keys and suggested I be on my way without bothering to charge me for any of the work they had allegedly done.

So, yeah, I understand now.

The last time that I melted down was at the dry cleaners about 12 years ago. After screaming at the manager on site as well as the regional manager on the phone, I threw their phone into a bin of laundry and stormed out. It was a classic "old Mr. Happy" moment.

[chuck]

The last time that I melted down was at the dry cleaners about 12 years ago. After screaming at the manager on site as well as the regional manager on the phone, I threw their phone into a bin of laundry and stormed out. It was a classic "old Mr. Happy" moment.

That's what I'm trying to tell PeteM. Pimpin' aint easy.

[Guinness]

That's what I'm trying to tell PeteM. Pimpin' aint easy.

I grew up in the burbs, so I don't ken no city talk

[Limey]

I am now suing BMW under the Magnuson Moss statute.

[Bench]

I am now suing BMW under the Magnuson Moss statute.

I'm sure the dealership was just following orders. 

[Limey]

I'm sure the dealership was just following orders. 

...which is why I'm going after the party corporate HQ.

[Bench]

...which is why I'm going after the party corporate HQ.

Have fun and good luck getting reparations. 

There are few things more exciting than a freshly filed righteous lawsuit. 

[Limey]

Have fun and good luck getting reparations. 

There are few things more exciting than a freshly filed righteous lawsuit. 

Lawyer says I have a possible claim under Texas Lemon Laws, and a definite claim under Magnuson Moss.  Both laws specify that the manufacturer pays the plaintiffs attorney.  Easy, painless and free justice.

[Bench]

Lawyer says I have a possible claim under Texas Lemon Laws, and a definite claim under Magnuson Moss.  Both laws specify that the manufacturer pays the plaintiffs attorney.  Easy, painless and free justice.

What's the contingent fee agreement for when it settles?

[Guinness]

What's the contingent fee agreement for when it settles?

1/4 of Berlin.

[Noe]

I'm sure the dealership was just following orders. 

Also known as the Nuremberg defense.

[Limey]

What's the contingent fee agreement for when it settles?

Blutarsky.

[Limey]

In case anyone's interested, I settled my case yesterday.  BMW bought the car back from me, wrote me a cheque for about 12% of the purchase price of the car, and paid my attorney his pound of flesh.  I took the money and went straight out and bought an Audi.

As an aside, and to wrap up the other sub-plot in this saga, I was summoned to be a witness for the prosecution against the idiot who wrote off the loaner car.  He failed to show, and a warrant was issued for his arrest.

[Bench]

In case anyone's interested, I settled my case yesterday.  BMW bought the car back from me, wrote me a cheque for about 12% of the purchase price of the car, and paid my attorney his pound of flesh.  I took the money and went straight out and bought an Audi.

As an aside, and to wrap up the other sub-plot in this saga, I was summoned to be a witness for the prosecution against the idiot who wrote off the loaner car.  He failed to show, and a warrant was issued for his arrest.

So what's going on with the situation with your neighbor?

[Ron Brand]

In case anyone's interested, I settled my case yesterday.  BMW bought the car back from me, wrote me a cheque for about 12% of the purchase price of the car, and paid my attorney his pound of flesh.  I took the money and went straight out and bought an Audi.

Are you satisfied with this settlement?

[Limey]

Are you satisfied with this settlement?

Very.

[Limey]

So what's going on with the situation with your neighbor?

Gah!

So, I made a long list of complaints, citing references to the city's code.  Independently, and coincidentally, a city inspector drove by and - from the street - saw the horrendous front yard and garbage pile.  He/she cited the house for those two items only.  The owner had someone come by to clear the front lawn and the garbage.  It looks a tad better (not hard), but now we are finding dead roaches in our garage.

I have been calling the city regularly to "update" them as to the state of that house.  Today's call was to point out that we are again suffering roach migration.  Our complaint remains open, but the city allows itself up to six months (October, in this case) to act on the complaint.  I am hoping (but not breath-holding) that the inspector's return to check on the current violation will offer a perfect opportunity to look further than what can be seen from the street.  We'll see...

[Ron Brand]

Very.

Good. I'm very glad.

[Limey]

Good. I'm very glad.

Danke.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Which Audi did you end up with?  Note: if you say S7, they'll be searching the bayou for your body by 6pm.

[Bench]

Which Audi did you end up with?  Note: if you say S7, they'll be searching the bayou for your body by 6pm.

Off topic, but is it true that the Astros stopped serving fried chicken every game in the Diamond Club?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Off topic, but is it true that the Astros stopped serving fried chicken every game in the Diamond Club?

Not sure.  There was fried chicken on Tuesday night.  Obviously, a larger sample size is needed.

[HudsonHawk]

As an aside, and to wrap up the other sub-plot in this saga, I was summoned to be a witness for the prosecution against the idiot who wrote off the loaner car.  He failed to show, and a warrant was issued for his arrest.

Completely unrelated, but yesterday I finished my first time on a criminal jury.

[JimR]

Completely unrelated, but yesterday I finished my first time on a criminal jury.

what kind of case? I have only been on one jury in my life, but it was a Yogurt Shop case.

[HudsonHawk]

what kind of case? I have only been on one jury in my life, but it was a Yogurt Shop case.

Attempted capital murder. I was shocked I was picked. I was juror #37 in the panel.

[Bench]

Not sure.  There was fried chicken on Tuesday night.  Obviously, a larger sample size is needed.

A colleague told me there wasn't any on Saturday.  I'm going tonight and will report. 

I'm glad it's at the very least in the rotation.  But it'd be a damn shame if that chicken was no longer an every day thing.  Some of the best fried chicken in the city, IMO.

[Bench]

Attempted capital murder. I was shocked I was picked. I was juror #37 in the panel.

That sounds intense.  How big was the panel?  Guilty or not guilty?

[HudsonHawk]

A colleague told me there wasn't any on Saturday.  I'm going tonight and will report. 

I'm glad it's at the very least in the rotation.  But it'd be a damn shame if that chicken was no longer an every day thing.  Some of the best fried chicken in the city, IMO.

I've never sat in the Diamond Club. Sigh.

[HudsonHawk]

That sounds intense.  How big was the panel?  Guilty or not guilty?

Panel was 65. Last juror was #38 and the alternate was #40. We convicted, but sentence was on the lesser end. The whole trial, opening statements to sentencing was 3 days.

[BizidyDizidy]

Panel was 65. Last juror was #38 and the alternate was #40. We convicted, but sentence was on the lesser end. The whole trial, opening statements to sentencing was 3 days.

You agreed with 11 other people on something?

[HudsonHawk]

You agreed with 11 other people on something?

*rimshot*

On two things. Guilt phase was the easy part. Few choices. But when you're told "you can give anything from 5 years probation to life in prison", it's much more difficult to gain alignment.

[BizidyDizidy]

I didn't even realize juries did sentencing.

[HudsonHawk]

I didn't even realize juries did sentencing.

It's up to the defendant. He chose to have the jury decide punishment.

[Bench]

I didn't even realize juries did sentencing.

In Texas state court they do, but in federal court the judge does the sentencing.  Not sure about other states.

[Bench]

Panel was 65. Last juror was #38 and the alternate was #40. We convicted, but sentence was on the lesser end. The whole trial, opening statements to sentencing was 3 days.

That's disturbingly quick for a potential life sentence.  What about the attempted murder made it capital?

[HudsonHawk]

That's disturbingly quick for a potential life sentence.  What about the attempted murder made it capital?

Two victims. And it would have been faster except none of the witnesses spoke English and everything had to be translated. That took time.

There wasn't much of a defense. No denying he shot the victims.  We had to decide attempted capital murder or aggravated assault.

[Bench]

Two victims. And it would have been faster except none of the witnesses spoke English and everything had to be translated. That took time.

There wasn't much of a defense. No denying he shot the victims.  We had to decide attempted capital murder or aggravated assault.

How long were the deliberations?  Did the jurors work well together?

[HudsonHawk]

How long were the deliberations?  Did the jurors work well together?

We deliberated guilt about 4 hours. Punishment about an hour. I thought we worked very well. When we got into deliberations, I was surprised how aligned we were from the get go. We had to convince one guy that "intent" isn't the same thing as "premeditation" but other than that, it was surprising how much we agreed on the evidence.

[Bench]

Not sure.  There was fried chicken on Tuesday night.  Obviously, a larger sample size is needed.

Alas, fried chicken is no longer an everyday item. But the renovation is very nice.

[austro]

Which Audi did you end up with?  Note: if you say S7, they'll be searching the bayou for your body by 6pm.

Only if you get to him first. I'll just leave him in the street.

[chuck]

Alas, fried chicken is no longer an everyday item. But the renovation is very nice.

I was told that any and every reference to the Astros was removed. Is that true?

[Bench]

I was told that any and every reference to the Astros was removed. Is that true?

All the napkins were imprinted with "Astros Hospitality Team."

[chuck]

All the napkins were imprinted with "Astros Hospitality Team."

After all, hospitality was one of the key pieces in the success wheel.

[Duke]

what kind of case? I have only been on one jury in my life, but it was a Yogurt Shop case.

Interesting Coach.  I've only been on one as well, the Infosex case.

[BizidyDizidy]

A colleague told me there wasn't any on Saturday.  I'm going tonight and will report. 

I'm glad it's at the very least in the rotation.  But it'd be a damn shame if that chicken was no longer an every day thing.  Some of the best fried chicken in the city, IMO.

Bench, I'm ashamed of you

http://deadspin.com/astros-fan-behind-home-plate-really-wants-you-to-see-hi-499825704

[Bench]

Bench, I'm ashamed of you

http://deadspin.com/astros-fan-behind-home-plate-really-wants-you-to-see-hi-499825704

You don't want to know what was planned for the kiss cam.

[das]

I took the money and went straight out and bought an Audi.

Good choice.

[Limey]

Which Audi did you end up with?  Note: if you say S7, they'll be searching the bayou for your body by 6pm.

Thought about the S7, but could not justify (even to myself) the additional cost.  Got an A7.  Very nice.

[Limey]

what kind of case? I have only been on one jury in my life, but it was a Yogurt Shop case.

For your sake, I hope "Yogurt Shop" isn't a euphemism.

[JimR]

For your sake, I hope "Yogurt Shop" isn't a euphemism.

not sure what you mean. that is an infamous crime in Austin.

[Bench]

not sure what you mean. that is an infamous crime in Austin.

Elaboration for those interested. 

[Bench]

not sure what you mean. that is an infamous crime in Austin.

Do you agree with the jurors who would not have convicted had they known about the DNA evidence that didn't match up?

[subnuclear]

Elaboration for those interested. 

That Raup fellow seems like a fine citizen. I was in Austin when the murders happened and remember how it was big deal.

[Limey]

not sure what you mean. that is an infamous crime in Austin.

I wasn't aware of this case.  After Googling, the word "heinous" comes to mind, along with a few others.

So did Scott and Springstein do this or not?  Did they ever figure it out?

[Bench]

I wasn't aware of this case.  After Googling, the word "heinous" comes to mind, along with a few others.

So did Scott and Springstein do this or not?  Did they ever figure it out?

It's still unsolved, as far as I can tell.

[Limey]

It's still unsolved, as far as I can tell.

Can't find anything to say they were exonerated by DNA evidence, just that other suspects' DNA didn't match.

[JimR]

Do you agree with the jurors who would not have convicted had they known about the DNA evidence that didn't match up?

no. Michael Scott was there. there may have been a division of stormtroopers with DNA all around in there too, but Michael Scoot was there. I watched all 22 hours of his interviews with police.

[JimR]

Can't find anything to say they were exonerated by DNA evidence, just that other suspects' DNA didn't match.

they were not exonerated. the cases were dismissed to avoid the possibility of double jeopardy. Scoot and Springsteen were there, and nothing can convince me otherwise. maybe someone else was too, but they were there.

a karma bomb took out Maurice Pierce, who was the ringleader.

[Limey]

they were not exonerated. the cases were dismissed to avoid the possibility of double jeopardy. Scoot and Springsteen were there, and nothing can convince me otherwise. maybe someone else was too, but they were there.

a karma bomb took out Maurice Pierce, who was the ringleader.

I heartily agree with Blackstone's formulation.  But sometimes the escaping guilty persons really deserve to have their nuts cut off and burned in front of their faces*.


* It's worth noting that both of these things were thought up by countrymen of mine.