Lowrie traded to A's?

[Bench]

Per Rosenthal::  #Astros getting prospects from #Athletics. Lowrie will earn $2.4M this season and also is eligible for arb in '14 before becoming free agent

[Ron Brand]

According to McTaggart, the Astros get 1B Chris Carter, RHP Brad Peacock and C Max Stassi for Lowrie and FeRod.

[Bench]

Luhnow: “This trade gives us power, pitching and catching. Three valuable commodities that will help improve our organization.”

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Yeah, but who's going to play SS now? 

[Bench]

Yeah, but who's going to play SS now? 

Marwin and Greene?  The same two that would play SS after Lowrie's inevitable injury.

[Ron Brand]

Carter's got some real pop but doesn't hit for average much. Maybe he'll platoon with Wallace?

Peacock fell apart last year in the PCL, took some big strides backward.

Can't find a lot on Stassi quickly, seems to have been a Top 15-20 prospect for Oakland.

[Ron Brand]

Marwin and Greene?  The same two that would play SS after Lowrie's inevitable injury.

Scary but true. .235/.295/.330 from your league-average fielding SS this season.

[jbm]

I hope Greene doesn't end up as a real option.  He was brutal in the field last year. 

[Ron Brand]

Stassi had a shoulder injury that cost him 2011 so he repeated high-A in 2012. Hits ok, strikes out a lot, supposed to be a good defensive catcher. Something called Lost and Found from MiLB has a bit more.

[Fredia]

not sure if money is not everything at times, like this one
deal is not making me happy

[Ron Brand]

Pretty much a standard Luhnow 3-for1, my dented toy for your three scuffed up ones.

[juliogotay]

Brian T. Smith is tweeting the following: Luhnow thinks Carter a near-lock to make ML roster. Greene and Gonzalez to battle  at SS.  They see Peacock as a potential #2 starter (wow). I read elsewhere that Stassi is A's #1 catching prospect.

[HudsonHawk]

I saw Carter quite a bit in Midland.  He certainly has power, but gets fooled pretty easily on breaking stuff.  At least when he was AA.

[Ebby Calvin]

I liked Lowrie.  Can't believe we traded him to a rival.

[Bench]

I liked Lowrie.  Can't believe we traded him to a rival.

At least we didn't trade him to the Rockies.  That would be a most bitter betrayal.

[Fredia]

welcome to the new world of al baseball ownership

[Bench]

Neyer says:

In Chris Carter, Brad Peacock, and Max Stassi, the Astros are getting
 ●half of a pretty good Designated Hitter platoon;
 ●a right-handed starting pitcher, just one year removed from ranking as a really hot prospect, but now coming off a season in which he posted a 6.01 ERA in the minors and couldn't crack a suspension- and injury-plagued rotation in Oakland; and
 ●an (almost) 22-year-old catcher who hit 15 homers in 84 Class A games last season.

Concluding that "Both clubs did about as well as they could, doing what they needed to do."

[Reuben]

so...

Carter
the Rule 5 guy whose name escapes me
Wallace
Pena

who goes? Are they going to carry even 3 of these guys? Unless they're planning to drag out the Wallace-as-3B experiment, I don't see how they can and still have adequate backups elsewhere.

[roadrunner]

so...

Carter
the Rule 5 guy whose name escapes me
Wallace
Pena

who goes? Are they going to carry even 3 of these guys? Unless they're planning to drag out the Wallace-as-3B experiment, I don't see how they can and still have adequate backups elsewhere.

At least 2 of those guys will suck.  But to start the season, if none are injured my guess is Carter starts in AAA (he has options left, right?)

[Mr. Happy]

Neyer says:

In Chris Carter, Brad Peacock, and Max Stassi, the Astros are getting
 ●half of a pretty good Designated Hitter platoon;
 ●a right-handed starting pitcher, just one year removed from ranking as a really hot prospect, but now coming off a season in which he posted a 6.01 ERA in the minors and couldn't crack a suspension- and injury-plagued rotation in Oakland; and
 ●an (almost) 22-year-old catcher who hit 15 homers in 84 Class A games last season.

Concluding that "Both clubs did about as well as they could, doing what they needed to do."

Those are probably accurate words.

[astrosfan76]

so...

Carter
the Rule 5 guy whose name escapes me
Wallace
Pena

who goes? Are they going to carry even 3 of these guys? Unless they're planning to drag out the Wallace-as-3B experiment, I don't see how they can and still have adequate backups elsewhere.

Friedman? I could see possibly keeping 3, you'd have a 1B, DH, and bench hitter from the group. I remember Peacock being really well-regarded by the Nats and them holding out on trades involving him until they were able to get Gio. He still has a lot of potential. Stassi obviously has a ways to go, but he's the kind of catcher we like to see behind the plate (cerebral, good defensively, leader). One other thought, while he hasn't been mentioned anywhere, I'm pretty sure Villar is taking notice of what just happened. Get his junk together and he has a very real shot at the bigs at some point this season.

[Ron Brand]

so...

Carter
the Rule 5 guy whose name escapes me
Wallace
Pena

who goes? Are they going to carry even 3 of these guys? Unless they're planning to drag out the Wallace-as-3B experiment, I don't see how they can and still have adequate backups elsewhere.

I can see them carrying all of these guys to start out with. Carter probably is a lock to platoon, and there's enough mix and match room among OF, 1B, DH and 3B to see what shakes out.

[Ron Brand]

One other thought, while he hasn't been mentioned anywhere, I'm pretty sure Villar is taking notice of what just happened. Get his junk together and he has a very real shot at the bigs at some point this season.

Yeah, but really any way you go SS is now an offensive hole where it was a plus.

[astrosfan76]

Yeah, but really any way you go SS is now an offensive hole where it was a plus.

I'm not going to argue that we're better off without Lowrie, and I doubt facilitating a spot for him was even a factor, but he does have the potential to not suck offensively. It's up to him to take advantage of the lack of competition.

[Reuben]

Yeah, but really any way you go SS is now an offensive hole where it was a plus.

At least Marwin can field. He's probably better than Lowrie defensively. But if Greene is the SS vs. lefties... Then you have an offensive and defensive hole.

[Ron Brand]

All part of their plan to cement that 1-1 pick in 2014.

[Jacksonian]

I actually like the direction Luhnow is going with all these moves.

[chuck]

I actually like the direction Luhnow is going with all these moves.

He's headed straight down Highway 120.

[pots]

I actually like the direction Luhnow is going with all these moves.

You could literally argue 20-25 different players for the 15-20 spots in a top 20 list for Houston prospects.  And it's not because they are bad.  I could see the farm besting 600 this year.  And they have 1-1 coming this year with extra money to spend on international signings.  I think the system pushes a #1 ranking by years end.  

[Jacksonian]

You could literally argue 20-25 different players for the 15-20 spots in a top 20 list for Houston prospects.  And it's not because they are bad.  I could see the farm besting 600 this year.  And they have 1-1 coming this year with extra money to spend on international signings.  I think the system pushes a #1 ranking by years end.  

It's not just that.  He's got to figure out which young'uns at the major league level now can actually play at the major league level.  While at the same time he's pouring depth in the farm system.  That depth will do 2 primary things.  It will supply talent to the Astros.  It also gives him talent to deal for veterans rather than having to sign expensive free agents that might also cost him draft picks (see Williams, Woody and Lee, Carlos).  Suffer now for a system that sets up to keep Houston a contender nearly perpetually given reasonable drafts and reasonable talent development, ala the Cardinals.

[chuck]

Suffer now for a system that sets up to keep Houston a contender nearly perpetually given reasonable drafts and reasonable talent development, ala the Cardinals.

You guys are nuts.

[NeilT]

I actually like the directions Luhnow is going with all these moves.

FIFY

[Mr. Happy]

I actually like the direction Luhnow is going with all these moves.

I think that I agree, but it's going to take a lot of patience and an optimistic wait-and-see attitude, which I think that I have for this plan, at least for now.

[juliogotay]

I think that I agree, but it's going to take a lot of patience and an optimistic wait-and-see attitude, which I think that I have for this plan, at least for now.

I agree with you but the average fan will not. (has not.)

[jbm]

I agree with you but the average fan will not. (has not.)

I don't know about that.  The fans (and press for that matter) that are left seem to give this group extraordinary slack.  How many GMs can make this trade and proclaim a 25 year old AAA arm as a #2 and get almost no questions?  This regime has had close to a free pass since they started.

[roadrunner]

I don't know about that.  The fans (and press for that matter) that are left seem to give this group extraordinary slack.  How many GMs can make this trade and proclaim a 25 year old AAA arm as a #2 and get almost no questions?  This regime has had close to a free pass since they started.

The 25 yr old AAA arm is a #2 on this team.  Everyone that is left has bought into the "suck now for the future".  It's too late to turn back now.

And I think the only reason they have had a free pass is because all of the pieces traded weren't valuable anyways. 

[astrosfan76]

You could literally argue 20-25 different players for the 15-20 spots in a top 20 list for Houston prospects.  And it's not because they are bad.  I could see the farm besting 600 this year.  And they have 1-1 coming this year with extra money to spend on international signings.  I think the system pushes a #1 ranking by years end.  

It's very possible.  It just depends on signing impact players, who graduates, and who steps forward.  Springer's probably topped out ranking-wise because of his age and Cosart is likely limited based on age, as well (if he doesn't graduate).  Singleton could rise a little if he shows more power and maintains eligibility.  Among the guys currently in the system, it's about who steps up.  If Correa steps up like the club hopes he does, he could become that impact guy that list guys look for.  DDS, McCullers, Rio, and Folty all have room to move up significantly.  I imagine that 1/1 will be in the top 50 overall next year and we may be be able to add another LMC-level guy.  Should easily be top 5, if not top 3, with a shot at #1.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't know about that.  The fans (and press for that matter) that are left seem to give this group extraordinary slack.  How many GMs can make this trade and proclaim a 25 year old AAA arm as a #2 and get almost no questions?  This regime has had close to a free pass since they started.

Okay, smart guy. Assume that you were GM and had to operate within the stifling salary structure at the show level under which ownership has him presently operating. What would you have done differently? Specifics please. Don't just come back with lame generalities.

[jbm]

Fuck off.  My observation was simple: their moves have not been broadly questioned by the average fan.  It was not a post trashing the trade or their moves in general.  I have no idea how this trade or all the ones preceeding it will work out. 

[jwhudson]

Fuck off.  My observation was simple: their moves have not been broadly questioned by the average fan.  It was not a post trashing the trade or their moves in general.  I have no idea how this trade or all the ones preceeding it will work out. 

No average fans around here anyway.

[ValpoCory]

Carter's got some real pop but doesn't hit for average much. Maybe he'll platoon with Wallace?

If Chris Carter continues to hit at his .888 OPS rate away from Oakland like he did last year, I could care less about what he hits for average.

[Ron Brand]

That 30ish strikeouts over his last 70s ABs doesn't slow your roll either?

[Andyzipp]

Fuck off.  My observation was simple: their moves have not been broadly questioned by the average fan.  It was not a post trashing the trade or their moves in general.  I have no idea how this trade or all the ones preceeding it will work out. 

There is a benefit to being the worst team in baseball.  No one is paying attention to anything you do, outside of uniforms.

[Ron Brand]

If Chris Carter continues to hit at his .888 OPS rate away from Oakland like he did last year, I could care less about what he hits for average.

Ok. As long as his OBP and SLG add up to over .850, sure, that would be great. He doesn't appear to hit into double plays and didn't have a big platoon differential, which is nice. But if you're going to go all OPS here, consider his slashes in 2012:

July: .254/.389/.576 - .965, 59 AB
August: .275/.358/.505 - .864 91 AB
September: .148/.284/.361 - .644 61 AB

He did hit well aganst the Rangers in Arlington though.

[ValpoCory]

That 30ish strikeouts over his last 70s ABs doesn't slow your roll either?

Carter was great until September, when he sucked.  Carlos Pena sucked until September, when he hit for a .922 OPS.  So just lock Pena in the attic until the 25-man roster limitation goes away.  I'm pretty good at this managerin' stuff.

[ValpoCory]

He did hit well aganst the Rangers in Arlington though.

And had a 1.109 OPS against the Angels.

[Ron Brand]

And had a 1.109 OPS against the Angels.

Ok, so the next problem is what do the Astros get for Wallace?

[moriartp]

Here's a chart of all Carter's home runs in 2012, with MMP's fences for comparison. Doesn't mean that much, but you can see where his power goes. He'll enjoy hitting in Houston.

[MusicMan]

Ok, so the next problem is what do the Astros get for Wallace?

I hear candlesticks make a nice gift.

[Noe]

There is a benefit to being the worst team in baseball.  No one is paying attention to anything you do, outside of uniforms.

Which of course, makes for one unique marketing scheme for the upcoming season. "Come on out, we may surprise you and win tonight's game!"

[Ron Brand]

Here's a chart of all Carter's home runs in 2012, with MMP's fences for comparison. Doesn't mean that much, but you can see where his power goes. He'll enjoy hitting in Houston.

I saw that someone had used an overlay of MMPUS on his home hit tracker and it added three HRs to his total.

[Mr. Happy]

Fuck off.  My observation was simple: their moves have not been broadly questioned by the average fan.  It was not a post trashing the trade or their moves in general.  I have no idea how this trade or all the ones preceeding it will work out. 

Just what I expected out of you: nothing. Fuck you.

[moriartp]

I saw that someone had used an overlay of MMPUS on his home hit tracker and it added three HRs to his total.

That'd be 19 over 260 PA. That's a rate I'd take over a full season.

[Ron Brand]

That'd be 19 over 260 PA. That's a rate I'd take over a full season.

I would be quite happy with that if he can sustain it. Here's hoping that he can.

[MusicMan]

Ken Rosenthal, please shut the fuck up.

[HudsonHawk]

Ken Rosenthal, please shut the fuck up.

Who is Ken Rosenthal and why the fuck is anyone listening to him in the first place?

[chuck]

Ken Rosenthal, please shut the fuck up.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
One other thing about #Astros: Their likely ineptitude could lead to three AL West teams making playoffs. Unfair to AL East and AL Central?

[Bench]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
One other thing about #Astros: Their likely ineptitude could lead to three AL West teams making playoffs. Unfair to AL East and AL Central?

It's more unfair to the fourth team in the AL West that doesn't make the playoffs.

[Ron Brand]

If we can get the Yankees and the Red Sox to bitch about tilting the AL in the West's direction, it can only help to grow that dissension that can get the team moved back to the NL someday. Unfortunately, Houston plays them because it's All About The Money.

[roadrunner]

This argument could be made any year with the division that has the worst team in baseball.  Rosenthal pretty hit or miss anyways.

[HudsonHawk]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
One other thing about #Astros: Their likely ineptitude could lead to three AL West teams making playoffs. Unfair to AL East and AL Central?

He sure is a whiny little bitch.

[chuck]

He sure is a whiny little bitch.

And as the Astros continue their teardown, it’s certainly fair to ask how low can they go, how many games can they lose before they become an embarrassment to Major League Baseball.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/how-will-houston-astros-survive-al-west-020413

[Ron Brand]

The only thing worse than a twit with a keyboard is a twit with a keyboard and a requirement to fill column space.

[mrpink]

There was an article at Fangraphs last week about this exact subject.  The author came to the conclusion that the Astros suckitude can be expected to give one or maybe two wins to the rest of the AL West teams.  In a couple of years they should be much better, though, and all this handwringing is just that.

[Limey]

And as the Astros continue their teardown, it’s certainly fair to ask how low can they go, how many games can they lose before they become an embarrassment to Major League Baseball.

They're not already?

[geezerdonk]

They're not already?

Any embarassment caused by the the Astros is so miniscule compared to that caused by Selig, it won't be noticed

[geezerdonk]

Bogusevic and Rodriguez down, only Greene to go and the Astros' trinity of fecklessness will be no more.

[ferret]

Don't forget why Lowrie was acquired in the first place,

Acquiring Lowrie also means that Luhnow doesn't have to trade Wandy Rodriguez, Brett Myers, or Carlos Lee. If he does, he doesn't have to get a shortstop in return.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/985715-houston-astros-luhnow-fills-a-hole-at-shortstop-with-jed-lowrie

[Ron Brand]

Jack Sutherford lives!

[subnuclear]

Not sure why you wouldn't want the leather seats in your 1971 Chevy Chevelle.

[Arky Vaughan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/how-will-houston-astros-survive-al-west-020413

What's Rosenthal's getting at? What does not survive mean? Will they not finish the season? Will they be so harrassed that they can't play home games anymore? Will the players be so dejected that they quit, and the peanut and beer vendors have to suit-up? Will they somehow defy the laws of nature and lose more than 162 games and have a negative winning percentage?

They're going to be very bad, just like they were last year, and the year before that. Maybe Crane and Luhnow could have played their cards differently and spent a $100 million for a team that loses 90 games instead of 107 games. Certainly McLane could have taken steps a decade ago to plan ahead, but he didn't.

Every time I read someone like Rosenthal, it gives me a better sense that Crane and Luhnow are doing the right thing.

[Reuben]

Bogusevic and Rodriguez down, only Greene to go and the Astros' trinity of fecklessness will be no more.

Sliver of hope: saw one article where Luhnow mentioned Elmore (SS they got off waivers from AZ) as being in the SS mix with Marwin and Greene... Since he bats RH, if he isn't complete shit in the field, perhaps he can push Greene out of the picture and platoon with Marwin. Great numbers in AAA last year.

[Jose Cruz III]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
One other thing about #Astros: Their likely ineptitude could lead to three AL West teams making playoffs. Unfair to AL East and AL Central?

About as fair as Selig forcing a team that had been in the NL for 50 years to the AL West, while leaving the team he owned, that came out of the AL and caused the whole "unbalance", to stay in the NL.

So to Ken Rosenthal, Bud Selig, and the Cubs, go screw yourself.

[Noe]

About as fair as Selig forcing a team that had been in the NL for 50 years to the AL West, while leaving the team he owned, that came out of the AL and caused the whole "unbalance", to stay in the NL.

So to Ken Rosenthal, Bud Selig, Drayton McLane, Jim Crane, the Texas Rangers, Nolan Ryan, and the Cubs, go screw yourself.

FIFY

[seib22]

FWIW...I just spent some time perusing a couple A's fan forums. The majority opinion is they hate the trade and that Carter will be a stud hitting at MMP. That's better than seeing that they loved the trade I guess. Here's hoping they're correct.

[Reuben]

FWIW...I just spent some time perusing a couple A's fan forums. The majority opinion is they hate the trade and that Carter will be a stud hitting at MMP. That's better than seeing that they loved the trade I guess. Here's hoping they're correct.

Any word on Carter's fielding "ability"? The idea seems to be that he will rotate between LF, 1B, and DH but I see he last played MLB LF in 2010, and... well, maybe his looks are deceiving, but he certainly "looks" like a DH.

[HudsonHawk]

Any word on Carter's fielding "ability"? The idea seems to be that he will rotate between LF, 1B, and DH but I see he last played MLB LF in 2010, and... well, maybe his looks are deceiving, but he certainly "looks" like a DH.

From what I remember about Carter at AA was that he was tall and strong, but athletic.  Kind of reminded me of a little leaner version of Ryan Howard.  But I don't know if he's bulked up in the last few years. 

[seib22]

Any word on Carter's fielding "ability"? The idea seems to be that he will rotate between LF, 1B, and DH but I see he last played MLB LF in 2010, and... well, maybe his looks are deceiving, but he certainly "looks" like a DH.

Based on what I've read of their descriptions, he is a DH. I also thought it was interesting that he is out of options - so that might be a reason the A's were ok with moving him?

Here is a link to this trade discussion from one of the fan sites if you want to see their thoughts on the deal:   http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=304&f=2062&t=11250861

[juliogotay]

Based on what I've read of their descriptions, he is a DH. I also thought it was interesting that he is out of options - so that might be a reason the A's were ok with moving him?

Here is a link to this trade discussion from one of the fan sites if you want to see their thoughts on the deal:   http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=304&f=2062&t=11250861

They really don't like losing Carter do they?