Author Topic: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage  (Read 6397 times)

DVauthrin

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 08:05:07 am »
It won't.  At all.

It won't be a drastic change that happens all at once, nor will it happen anytime soon, but I think the game will definitely change gradually, starting at the lowest levels (pee-wee, high school).  Parents (such as myself) will discourage their kids from playing football.  Over a generation or two, that will ultimately affect the college and pro levels.

Make no mistake, people will still play football, football will still be a violent sport, and at some point the league and its players will have to acknowledge that and stop trying to legislate around it.  But I think we will eventually see the more talented younger players get funneled into other sports.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 08:33:16 am »
It won't be a drastic change that happens all at once, nor will it happen anytime soon, but I think the game will definitely change gradually, starting at the lowest levels (pee-wee, high school).  Parents (such as myself) will discourage their kids from playing football.  Over a generation or two, that will ultimately affect the college and pro levels.

Make no mistake, people will still play football, football will still be a violent sport, and at some point the league and its players will have to acknowledge that and stop trying to legislate around it.  But I think we will eventually see the more talented younger players get funneled into other sports.

I was going to be a little more glib and say that the news will lead to more humorous commercials about how they're improving helmets...

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 08:57:54 am »
I'm guessing soccer is going to get more popular and football will become more and more a low-class sport, but that might be happening independent of these brain damage incidents.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 09:03:08 am »
I'm guessing soccer is going to get more popular and football will become more and more a low-class sport, but that might be happening independent of these brain damage incidents.

We've been hearing that for 50 years. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 09:04:41 am »
We've been hearing that for 50 years. I'll believe it when I see it.

Soccer is a lot more popular than it was 50 years ago.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 09:07:02 am »
All those headers cause brain damage also...
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 09:07:03 am »
I'm guessing soccer is going to get more popular and football will become more and more a low-class sport, but that might be happening independent of these brain damage incidents.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 09:07:57 am »
Soccer is a lot more popular than it was 50 years ago.

Soccer as a youth sport didn't exist 50 years ago.  I suspect that now it's the dominant youth sport.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 09:26:20 am »
Soccer as a youth sport didn't exist 50 years ago.  I suspect that now it's the dominant youth sport.

If that were true, you would hear phrases such as "Soccer Moms" instead of "Football Moms", "Baseball Moms", or "Basketball Moms".
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 09:34:28 am »
Soccer as a youth sport didn't exist 50 years ago.  I suspect that now it's the dominant youth sport.

I don't know if I'd say it is dominant.  It is more popular but based on what kids of my siblings and friends play only a few play soccer.  I think it depends on the parents and what kind of time they are willing to commit to the kids and sports. 
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 09:37:24 am »
I don't know if I'd say it is dominant.  It is more popular but based on what kids of my siblings and friends play only a few play soccer.  I think it depends on the parents and what kind of time they are willing to commit to the kids and sports. 

popular in affluent areas.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 09:41:41 am »
popular in affluent areas.

not sure what you are saying about my family and friends....
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 09:50:27 am »
not sure what you are saying about my family and friends....

i am saying they do not live in affluent areas. neither do i.
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Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 10:22:48 am »
I live in an effluent area.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 10:32:20 am »
I live in a flu area.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 10:32:54 am »
I'd guess that the rise in Hispanic folks will mean an increase in soccer, but it's not going to get anywhere near the popularity of American football in our lifetimes.

There's a tire-recapping plant a few miles from my house, and it would appear that they employ a bunch of these types of people. During lunch and after work they set up portable goals and play soccer for a while. There are some high school fields not all that far away that host all-day soccer matches that draw thousands, and they're all ad hoc. It's just a matter of time before it becomes a flea market too.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 10:37:56 am »
I'd guess that the rise in Hispanic folks will mean an increase in soccer, but it's not going to get anywhere near the popularity of American football in our lifetimes.

I wasn't saying that and I don't think that will happen. But I also don't think soccer is just growing in affluent neighborhoods and with hispanic people.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 10:40:52 am »
Soccer as a youth sport didn't exist 50 years ago.  I suspect that now it's the dominant youth sport.

Though soccer is dominant here (you know, Portland, the city that gave up professional baseball for professional soccer), I'd be hesitant to try to extrapolate any kind of national relevance based on this...
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 10:44:51 am »
I wasn't saying that and I don't think that will happen. But I also don't think soccer is just growing in affluent neighborhoods and with hispanic people.

I don't live in an affluent area and soccer is pretty big here and getting bigger. That means it's bigger than tennis or competitive swimming though, not that it's creeping up on baseball or football.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 10:47:29 am »
The elasticity of football is driven in some part by gambling.  People with money on the game will watch any/every shitty game - right to the very end - because they have money riding on the scoreline.  It's a vast, not-so underground market that won't go away because of a few rule changes.

Football isn't going anywhere.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 10:57:20 am »
What about reverting to a helmet without a face/chin bar, instead using a durable clear-plastic faceguard? Eliminates most facemasking penalties and with rule changes, such as taking off plays if helmet comes off or face guard breaks, discourages hitting or spearing with the face.

In other words altering the equipment to influence how to make tackles. Might tend to get the game moving back in the direction of wrapping up instead of relying on hitting. I think we've all witnessed the decline of good tackling form over our lifetimes. Speed of the game alone isn't responsible for that.

May not be THE solution or even A solution, but it expands the conversation.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:01:36 am by ybbodeus »
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 10:59:57 am »
I don't live in an affluent area and soccer is pretty big here and getting bigger. That means it's bigger than tennis or competitive swimming though, not that it's creeping up on baseball or football.

Not that I particuarly disagree with you, but here is an interesting article on high school sports attendence.

Quote
When combining attendance at regular-season girls and boys contests, basketball led the way with about 170 million fans, followed closely by football with 166 million. Soccer ranked third at 24 million, followed by baseball (20 million), volleyball (17 million), softball (15.8 million), wrestling (10 million), track and field (6.6 million), ice hockey (6 million), swimming and diving (4.8 million), lacrosse (4.5 million), cross country (3 million), water polo (1.8 million), tennis (1.8 million), golf (1.3 million) and field hockey (800,000).

Probably for this comparison, they should add baseball and softball.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 11:04:57 am »
Soccer is a lot more popular than it was 50 years ago.

Not compared to football.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 11:06:29 am »
Not that I particuarly disagree with you, but here is an interesting article on high school sports attendence.

Add in Little League etc. and I suspect there would be some movement on those numbers.

Not sure what it means, but the lack of vacant lots doesn't help the numbers of kids playing baseball either. I don't remember the last time I saw kids playing baseball in the street, which was where at least half our games growing up used to take place.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 11:07:49 am »
Soccer as a youth sport didn't exist 50 years ago.  I suspect that now it's the dominant youth sport.

It damn sure did. In fact, it was all the rage. When I was a kid, everyone said soccer was going to replace football and baseball within 20 years. But let's face it, the soccer craze starts at about age 4 and ends about age 10.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 11:09:19 am »
Well said.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 11:09:44 am »
Add in Little League etc. and I suspect there would be some movement on those numbers.

Not sure what it means, but the lack of vacant lots doesn't help the numbers of kids playing baseball either. I don't remember the last time I saw kids playing baseball in the street, which was where at least half our games growing up used to take place.

kids do not do this any more. parents have each day of their calendars filled up with organized activities and/or they are inside with their noses in computers. this is one of my soapbox topics along with select teams.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:33:37 pm by JimR »
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 11:10:42 am »
I don't remember the last time I saw kids playing baseball in the street, which was where at least half our games growing up used to take place.

"Go play in the street!" used to be a perfectly reasonable thing to tell your kids.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2013, 11:32:42 am »
"Go play in the street!" used to be a perfectly reasonable thing to tell your kids.

Not that I disagree with you, but I wonder whether back in the day was as "Mayberry" as people remember it to be.  Revelations about rampant child abuse in the Catholic church, for example, went unreported at the time because it just wasn't something parents were aware or of wary of.  The UK is having its own such moment with the horrendous abuses perpetrated by hitherto beloved and respected entertainers.  Jimmy Savile being the highest profile, but there has been a parade of media personalities from my youth who have been implicated - any one of whom my parents would have happily left me in the company of (but thankfully never did).

While its romantic to lament the loss of the childhood freedoms, i think safety is an overpowering concern.  As long as organised activities still involve enough running around to keep lids healthy and appropriately worn out by the end of the day, it's all good.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 11:36:36 am »
Here's a link to a National Sporting Goods Association chart on youth participation in sports, comparing 2001 to 2011.  A couple of observations.  It splits participation into two age groups:  little kids and bigger kids through high school.   To be counted, the kid had to participate in the sport at least twice.  I have no clue where the numbers came from.  There are a lot of peculiar sports, like dart throwing and roller blading and black powder shooting.  Football is confined to tackle football, and baseball and softball are separate.  There's no gender informaiton.  It doesn't tell you which kids are affluent and which aren't.  The numbers listed are 1,000s.

I'm sure there are many problems with the numbers, but I thought they were interesting.

http://www.nsga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3494
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:39:01 am by NeilT »
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 11:38:00 am »
Glad you brought up select teams, Jim. Some of my friends spend almost as much on "select" as they do on private school tuition. Won't question their goals or their commitment, but it definitely seems to become the driving force in more than a few families' lives. Dont even get me started on AAU and "prep" schools (for hoops).

Each his own, obviously.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:39:55 am by ybbodeus »
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2013, 11:47:15 am »
It damn sure did. In fact, it was all the rage. When I was a kid, everyone said soccer was going to replace football and baseball within 20 years. But let's face it, the soccer craze starts at about age 4 and ends about age 10.

Soccer just doesn't have the staying power of jai alai.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2013, 11:50:39 am »
Soccer just doesn't have the staying power of jai alai.

Jai alai is an extremely cool sport.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2013, 11:54:11 am »
Jai alai is an extremely cool sport.

Obviously.  It was in the opening credits of Miami Vice.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2013, 12:16:31 pm »
Jai alai is an extremely cool sport.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2013, 12:49:29 pm »
I miss the Tampa fronton. It's a Home Depot now.

Much of the Tampa from my youth is gone...the fronton, Al Lopez field, the Silver Ring..I bet the old Fun-Lan Drive In is gone too.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2013, 01:05:48 pm »
I bet the old Fun-Lan Drive In is gone too.

Nope, still reeling 'em off. Winter is drive-in season!
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2013, 01:10:30 pm »
Not that I disagree with you, but I wonder whether back in the day was as "Mayberry" as people remember it to be.  Revelations about rampant child abuse in the Catholic church, for example, went unreported at the time because it just wasn't something parents were aware or of wary of.  The UK is having its own such moment with the horrendous abuses perpetrated by hitherto beloved and respected entertainers.  Jimmy Savile being the highest profile, but there has been a parade of media personalities from my youth who have been implicated - any one of whom my parents would have happily left me in the company of (but thankfully never did).

While its romantic to lament the loss of the childhood freedoms, i think safety is an overpowering concern.  As long as organised activities still involve enough running around to keep lids healthy and appropriately worn out by the end of the day, it's all good.



One thing has changed.  More women work.  My mom was a stay-at-home mom until I entered the second grade.  Most of my friends' moms stayed home also.  Adults were there, they just were inside the house doing something.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2013, 04:01:44 pm »
Not that I disagree with you, but I wonder whether back in the day was as "Mayberry" as people remember it to be.  Revelations about rampant child abuse in the Catholic church, for example, went unreported at the time because it just wasn't something parents were aware or of wary of.  The UK is having its own such moment with the horrendous abuses perpetrated by hitherto beloved and respected entertainers.  Jimmy Savile being the highest profile, but there has been a parade of media personalities from my youth who have been implicated - any one of whom my parents would have happily left me in the company of (but thankfully never did).

While its romantic to lament the loss of the childhood freedoms, i think safety is an overpowering concern.  As long as organised activities still involve enough running around to keep lids healthy and appropriately worn out by the end of the day, it's all good.



There also didn't used to be 24-hour news cycle that needed to be fed.  You hear more about crimes than you would have 25 years ago.  The small town ax murderer (if he was ever able to be caught...) wouldn't be given months of coverage, Nancy Grace specials, and an eventual reality series.

Culture of Fear is an interesting book related to this topic...

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2013, 06:29:14 am »
The UK is having its own such moment with the horrendous abuses perpetrated by hitherto beloved and respected entertainers.  Jimmy Savile being the highest profile, but there has been a parade of media personalities from my youth who have been implicated - any one of whom my parents would have happily left me in the company of (but thankfully never did).


Wow, Savile was a big time charity fund raiser, he could have shown that piddling bastard Sandusky a thing or two.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2013, 08:31:31 am »
Wow, Savile was a big time charity fund raiser, he could have shown that piddling bastard Sandusky a thing or two.

Seriously.  It's horrendous.  And there's been a parade of entertainment names from my past all linked into what appears to have been a loosely organized ring in the industry.  It got so bad that when I saw Sir Patrick Moore's name in a headline, that I was happy to read that it was only because he had died - nothing to do with Savile.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2013, 03:48:42 pm »
Jacoby Jones with a "deja vu all over again" brain fart moment, this time HURTING the Ravens. Flaccid picks him up big time, though.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2013, 04:21:37 pm »
Jacoby Jones with a "deja vu all over again" brain fart moment, this time HURTING the Ravens. Flaccid picks him up big time, though.

And Holliday with a punt return TD. Naturally.
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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2013, 04:30:41 pm »
Denver's secondary looks really vulnerable. They're lucky that the throwing conditions are difficult.
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BizidyDizidy

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2013, 04:33:35 pm »
Denver's secondary looks really vulnerable. They're lucky that the throwing conditions are difficult.

The condition being Joe Flacco?
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austro

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2013, 04:34:31 pm »
The condition being Joe Flacco?

That's certainly part of it, but he's actually thrown a few nice balls today.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2013, 05:11:59 pm »
That's certainly part of it, but he's actually thrown a few nice balls today.

Flacco is pretty good at throwing the deep ball.
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austro

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2013, 05:23:58 pm »
Holliday again. Unbelievable.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Junior Seau's brain shows chronic damage
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2013, 05:25:50 pm »
Holliday again. Unbelievable.

Good LSU boy.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius