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Author Topic: RIP Marvin Miller  (Read 2730 times)

HudsonHawk

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RIP Marvin Miller
« on: November 27, 2012, 11:04:49 am »
Both loved and despised, depending on which side of the aisle you sat, but no disputing that few individuals have had as big an impact on the business side of sports.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8682184/marvin-miller-mlbpa-first-leader-dies-95

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MusicMan

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 11:19:54 am »
His exclusion from the HOF is glaring.
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chuck

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 11:34:05 am »
So I go to Yahoo the first headline is

Former baseball union head Miller dead at 95

And the second

Longoria agrees to deal adding $100 million
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HudsonHawk

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 12:28:45 pm »
Quote from: MusicMan on November 27, 2012, 11:19:54 am
His exclusion from the HOF is glaring.

See, I don't agree.  I don't think he belongs in the HOF, despite his influence. 
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geezerdonk

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RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 12:38:44 pm »
My lasting memory of Marvin Miller is his claim that drug testing players violated the Fourth Amendment.
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Bench

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 01:36:46 pm »
Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 27, 2012, 12:28:45 pm
See, I don't agree.  I don't think he belongs in the HOF, despite his influence. 

I guess it depends on the what one feels the scope of the hall should be.  If the goal is to be a museum that documents the history and changes of the sport, then he should be in it.  If it is meant to be a sanitized MLB-approved historical fiction then no.

And also it depends on what you mean by "in" the Hall.  Milo is "in" the HOF despite the fact that he's not actually in the HOF.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 01:42:37 pm »
Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 27, 2012, 11:04:49 am
Both loved and despised, depending on which side of the aisle you sat, but no disputing that few individuals have had as big an impact on the business side of sports.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8682184/marvin-miller-mlbpa-first-leader-dies-95



I would go so far as to say that he had more impact on the business side of baseball than anyone else. He was a trendsetter, predicting free agency, among other things.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2012, 02:24:06 pm »
I think his influence is overstated, he was doing his job and getting paid to represent the players. If he wasn't going to look out for the Curt Floods and Andy Messersmiths, they would have found someone who would.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2012, 02:26:45 pm »
Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on November 27, 2012, 02:24:06 pm
I think his influence is overstated, he was doing his job and getting paid to represent the players. If he wasn't going to look out for the Curt Floods and Andy Messersmiths, they would have found someone who would.

Contrarian. They may have found someone else to represent them in the fight for free agency, but Marvin Miller *was* the guy who got it for them.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 02:59:50 pm »
Quote from: Bench on November 27, 2012, 01:36:46 pm
I guess it depends on the what one feels the scope of the hall should be.  If the goal is to be a museum that documents the history and changes of the sport, then he should be in it.  If it is meant to be a sanitized MLB-approved historical fiction then no.

And also it depends on what you mean by "in" the Hall.  Milo is "in" the HOF despite the fact that he's not actually in the HOF.

I mean a "member" of the Hall of Fame...like the kind of member Milo is not.  I never suggested it should be sanitized or even MLB-approved.  In fact, I think the HOF does a good job of *not* making it those things.  Come to think of it, I'm not sure where you even got that idea.
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The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

HudsonHawk

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2012, 03:00:54 pm »
Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on November 27, 2012, 02:24:06 pm
I think his influence is overstated, he was doing his job and getting paid to represent the players. If he wasn't going to look out for the Curt Floods and Andy Messersmiths, they would have found someone who would.

Well, it could be argued if that's the case, then why *didn't* they find someone else who would?
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The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Bench

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 03:05:50 pm »
Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 27, 2012, 02:59:50 pm
I mean a "member" of the Hall of Fame...like the kind of member Milo is not.  I never suggested it should be sanitized or even MLB-approved.  In fact, I think the HOF does a good job of *not* making it those things.  Come to think of it, I'm not sure where you even got that idea.

Are any non-players "members" of the hall of fame?

I think by ignoring Pete Rose and so far the "steroid era" the Hall is trying to be a sanitized version of history and not an accurate historical exhibition. 
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HudsonHawk

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2012, 03:08:20 pm »
Quote from: Bench on November 27, 2012, 03:05:50 pm
Are any non-players "members" of the hall of fame?

Sure...there are managers, umpires and executives.

Quote
I think by ignoring Pete Rose and so far the "steroid era" the Hall is trying to be a sanitized version of history and not an accurate historical exhibition. 

Pete Rose is everywhere in the historical exhibition of the HOF.  He's simply ineligible to be a "member". 
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The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Andyzipp

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 03:41:15 pm »
Quote from: Bench on November 27, 2012, 03:05:50 pm
Are any non-players "members" of the hall of fame?

I think by ignoring Pete Rose and so far the "steroid era" the Hall is trying to be a sanitized version of history and not an accurate historical exhibition. 

No one ignores Pete Rose.  He chose to break the one rule you can't break in baseball.
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Bench

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 03:50:24 pm »
Quote from: HudsonHawk on November 27, 2012, 03:08:20 pm
Sure...there are managers, umpires and executives.
 

They have plaques just like the players?  I haven't been to the HOF since 1997, so I don't really recall. 
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BUWebguy

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 04:28:02 pm »
Quote from: Bench on November 27, 2012, 03:50:24 pm
They have plaques just like the players?  I haven't been to the HOF since 1997, so I don't really recall. 

Yep. For instance:
http://baseballhall.org/hof/rickey-branch
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Mr. Happy

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2012, 04:38:15 pm »
Quote from: Andyzipp on November 27, 2012, 03:41:15 pm
No one ignores Pete Rose.  He chose to break the one rule you can't break in baseball.

That's it. His sentence was just.
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Limey

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 04:49:32 pm »
Quote from: Mr. Happy on November 27, 2012, 04:38:15 pm
That's it. His sentence was just.

Thread hijack in 3...2...
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JimR

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2012, 09:47:07 pm »
Quote from: Bench on November 27, 2012, 03:50:24 pm
They have plaques just like the players?  I haven't been to the HOF since 1997, so I don't really recall. 

Yes, of course they do.
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NeilT

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2012, 09:59:03 pm »
Milo Hamilton's in the hall of fame.
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OregonStrosFan

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2012, 10:14:19 pm »
Quote from: MusicMan on November 27, 2012, 11:19:54 am
His exclusion from the HOF is glaring.

And yet William Huber Selig will be at some point... So please allow me to take this opportunity to say FYB!!!
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HudsonHawk

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 06:29:58 am »
Quote from: NeilT on November 27, 2012, 09:59:03 pm
Milo Hamilton's in the hall of fame.

No, he's not.
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The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Arky Vaughan

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Re: RIP Marvin Miller
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 03:13:31 pm »
There are 297 members of the Hall of Fame, 207 Major League players, 35 Negro leaguers, 27 executives or pioneers, 19 managers and nine umpires.

http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers

There are 295 plaques on display at the Hall of Fame. I don't know which two members are missing plaques or why they're missing.

http://baseballhall.org/museum/experience/plaque-gallery

If Marvin Miller were selected, he would presumably be inducted as a pioneer.

Milo Hamilton was the recipient of the 1992 Ford C. Frick Award, which is given annually to a broadcaster.

http://baseballhall.org/museum/awards/ford-c-frick

The J.G. Taylor Spink Award is given annually to a sportswriter.

http://baseballhall.org/museum/awards/j-g-taylor-spink

The Hall of Fame makes clear that recipients of the Frick and Spink awards are not members who have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.
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