No one elected to HOF!

[Houston]

Per Noe's request, I am including a summary of the main information on my Facebook "Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio for 2013 Baseball Hall of Fame" page. In addition, there are periodic updates about these two worthy players and the Astros, in general.

Craig Biggio is a former Major League Baseball second baseman, catcher, and outfielder. He played his entire 20-year baseball career with the Houston Astros (1988–2007). He ranks 21st all-time with 3,060 career hits, and is the ninth player in the 3,000 hit club to get all his hits with the same team. He is currently the head varsity baseball coach for St. Thomas High School in Houston, Texas.
---

Jeff Bagwell is one of 12 players in baseball history with 400 or more homers and a career on-base percentage of .400 or better. He slugged 449 homers, finished first in the MVP voting in one season, second in another, and in the top 10 six times.

He was a strong defensive player, once winning a Gold Glove Award, and he was an exceptional baserunner, stealing 202 bases despite relatively modest speed. He was a great teammate, didn't live on police blogs, and treated others with tremendous respect. There is nothing about Bagwell's performance that isn't worthy of the Hall of Fame.

Much more can be found there. Please join if you haven't already.

Thanks

[JackAstro]

Link?

[Mr. Happy]

Link?

That's what I want too.

[Bench]

www.facebook.com

search for "Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio for 2013 Baseball Hall of Fame"

[Andyzipp]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/217158535039912/

[Ebby Calvin]

Joined.

[Houston]

Thanks, Andy!

[Mr. Happy]

Joined.

Same here. I wanna be in that number!!!

[OregonStrosFan]

Joined.

Same here. I wanna be in that number!!!

Shit, there goes the credibility of the FB page now...

[Mr. Happy]

Shit, there goes the credibility of the FB page now...

You knew that I was coming...

[OregonStrosFan]

You knew that I was coming...

I'm nothing if not completely and totally predictable...  At least I've got that goin' for me!

[Mr. Happy]

I'm nothing if not completely and totally predictable...  At least I've got that goin' for me!

It's also very comforting, OSF!

[Outlawscotty]

Melvin and the FB page mentioned again tonight on the TV broadcast.

[Mr. Happy]

Melvin and the FB page mentioned again tonight on the TV broadcast.

I caught that too. Go Melvin!!!

[Houston]

I figured they must have said something because I got a dozen requests to join the page. That's 25 new members from those two brief mentions. Pretty cool!

[hostros7]

I figured they must have said something because I got a dozen requests to join the page. That's 25 new members from those two brief mentions. Pretty cool!

Wow, so an 86% hit rate from broadcast viewers.  That's phenomenal!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Wow, so an 86% hit rate from broadcast viewers.  That's phenomenal!

The other 14% were already members.

[OregonStrosFan]

The other 14% were already members.

Don't forget the other 50% that were SnSers...  [/Bera'd-it]

[OregonStrosFan]

MoBerg (via Twitter):

Morgan Ensberg ‏@MorganEnsberg
@alysonfooter Biggio is a 1st ballot HOF. Baggy should have already been inducted. Bias? Nope. Just Two of the greatest players to ever play

[Fredia]

biggio.biggio..should go go go

[OregonStrosFan]

A couple of good HOF ballot reads (h/t Astros County):

Bernie Miklasz: Spare us from baseball writers' sermons

Bill Madden: In addition to a player's ability, the Baseball Writers Association considers integrity and sportsmanship when deciding who gets to the Hall of Fame

[OregonStrosFan]

And another (h/t KevinBassStache via Twitter):

Matthew Pouliot: Why on earth is Craig Biggio above steroid suspicion?

[geezerdonk]

What puts Matthew Pouliot above child molester suspicion?

[Andyzipp]

What puts Matthew Pouliot above child molester suspicion?

Did you read th article, or just the title?

[Bench]

What puts Matthew Pouliot above child molester suspicion?

Literacy.

[ValpoCory]

Is there a Hall of Fame equivalent to stiffarmtrophy.com, that predicts the outcome of the voting?  All I've seen is the the report on Sosa/Clemens/Bonds not making it. 

[OregonStrosFan]

Is there a Hall of Fame equivalent to stiffarmtrophy.com, that predicts the outcome of the voting?  All I've seen is the the report on Sosa/Clemens/Bonds not making it. 

I'm not aware of one.  Not exactly what you're looking for, but Astros County is keeping a 'roll call' on voters who have posted their votes on Biggio and/or Bagwell.  Astros County "2013 HOF Roll Call" LINK

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm not aware of one.  Not exactly what you're looking for, but Astros County is keeping a 'roll call' on voters who have posted their votes on Biggio and/or Bagwell.  Astros County "2013 HOF Roll Call" LINK

Anybody live near Dearborn, MI?  I need a flaming bag of shit delivered to Pat Caputo's doorstep.

[Ty in Tampa]

Anybody live near Dearborn, MI?  I need a flaming bag of shit delivered to Pat Caputo's doorstep.

I clicked the link. I hate myself.

[subnuclear]

Anybody live near Dearborn, MI?  I need a flaming bag of shit delivered to Pat Caputo's doorstep.

I'm going to Michigan for Christmas. I should be able to drive by.

[BudGirl]

So, Cowlickshaw votes for Bagwell but not Biggio????  

[Bench]

So, Cowlickshaw votes for Bagwell but not Biggio?  

He's probably a "not on the first ballot" type.

[Limey]

I clicked the link. I hate myself.

That cocksucker - and I mean that, there is a raging fire of evidence that he sucks cock - posted the article 17 days ago.  In that time, he has garnered no comments.  Zero.  Zilch.  None.  Nada.  He is waving his misshapen and unfit for purpose testicles at the world - and I mean that, Elephantitis affects over 120 million people in the world, so some of those suffering from it must be sports journalists - and no one cares.

What a tool.  A sad, pathetic tool.

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm going to Michigan for Christmas. I should be able to drive by.

Thank you subnuclear.  You're our only hope.

[Limey]

BTW, according to his Wikipedia page - which makes no mention of any relationships with women at all, confirming his homosexuality and thus, by indisputable logic, one who sucks cocks - Caputo hasn't covered baseball since 1998.  And that was the Tigers.

Why the fuck does he still get to vote?

[chuck]

[email protected]

[Reuben]

I'm already pissed off enough about lots of other shit these days. I'm gonna wait a while before clicking on the link.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'm already pissed off enough about lots of other shit these days. I'm gonna wait a while before clicking on the link.

Don't bother. He riffs on the same shit as the other self-righteous clowns who don't deserve a vote. Some did steroids so they all did steroids. Don't give him the satisfaction of a click.

[astrosfan76]

And this nugget of logic from Bob Brookover:

I've read columns by voters who say they will support a player as long as the player was never caught cheating, and I've been questioned in the past about not voting for Bagwell, who has openly denied ever using steroids and whose name cannot be found anywhere in the 2007 Mitchell report.

I'm just not sure I believe him, and the reason is because I've watched players lie in front of Congress. If they can lie there, they can lie anywhere about anything. Schilling, one of the more outspoken players in his contempt for steroid users, once was asked if he was still dipping smokeless tobacco during his playing days with the Phillies. He assured the questioners he was not. It was a lie that was revealed by his wife, Shonda, just a few days later.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20121223_Inside_the_Phillies__Baseball_writer_wrestles_with_a_landmark_Hall_of_Fame_ballot.html

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Did Bob Brookover ever deny he molested children? Bill (J G Taylor Spink award winner) Conlin, another Philly baseball writer was accused of molesting children. Several times... Anyway, if Bob Brookover did deny molesting children and there were no proof that he ever did, I'm still not sure I'd believe him, I think to be safe, I'll assume Bob Brookover is a child molester.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

At cbssports.com they're ranking the eligible HoF candidates. Biggio's 6th, they just announced Raines as the 5th best, Baggy is gonna be in the top four but the final order hasn't been released. Last four, Bonds, Bagwell, Clemens, & Piazza.

[hostros7]

This guy

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/heatindex/articles/20121220nobody-deserves-my-hall-vote-year.html

I don’t know what I’ll do next year, but I’m fairly sure I won’t send in a blank ballot. This one-year protest should make my point.

What a stain.

[chuck]

At cbssports.com they're ranking the eligible HoF candidates. Biggio's 6th, they just announced Raines as the 5th best, Baggy is gonna be in the top four but the final order hasn't been released. Last four, Bonds, Bagwell, Clemens, & Piazza.

Bagwell clocks in at #3.

"This really shouldn't be difficult. Bagwell is a gobsmackingly obvious Hall of Famer by any reasonable standard, yet he is on the ballot for the third time and seems unlikely to make it in this time around."

Link.

[DVauthrin]

Bagwell clocks in at #3.

"This really shouldn't be difficult. Bagwell is a gobsmackingly obvious Hall of Famer by any reasonable standard, yet he is on the ballot for the third time and seems unlikely to make it in this time around."

Link.

At least some journalists show signs of intelligence.   I'm ashamed to admit I have a degree from UT in the field when I read what passes as typical industry garbage.

[Houston]

I'm getting the sense that Biggio will get at least 80% of the Hall of Fame vote and Bagwell will get about 65%. (Players need at least 75% for induction.) I've posted all of the articles from writers and voters on the Facebook page advocating for their candidacy if you care to read them http://www.facebook.com/groups/217158535039912/.

Voting ends on Monday.

I wrote to Jim Crane a while ago suggesting he do a PR blitz for both players to be elected at the same time. The team pushed Biggio on the day the ballots were released, but I haven't seen anything else from the team since then.

[Limey]

I wrote to Jim Crane a while ago suggesting he do a PR blitz for both players to be elected at the same time. The team pushed Biggio on the day the ballots were released, but I haven't seen anything else from the team since then.

Beeegio who?  Didn't he used to play in the NL or something?

New ownership certainly appears to be lacking in class.

[Navin R Johnson]

They are too busy inviting people to dinner with dead ex players on facebook to bother themselves with something like this..

[Limey]

They are too busy inviting people to dinner with dead ex players on facebook to bother themselves with something like this..

They have consigned themselves to needing to find a whole new batch of fans for their club, so there's no need to bother about things that interest fans of the old club.

[Uncle Charlie]

Joe Capozzi (Palm Beach Post) "I gave careful thought to Craig Biggio, one of 28 players in history with 3,000 hits. But when I think of the most dominating players in the 1990s and 2000s, Biggio (3,060 hits) just doesn’t rank at the top."

It's not Biggio's fault that you and the rest of the media weren't paying attention.  Answer this, besides Rickey Henderson, who else was a better leadoff hitter in the 90's?  Who else had the character that Biggio did (note his 3 major awards surrounding the topic).

The idea that someone doesnt see Biggio as dominating is a reflection upon their laziness to understand his accomplishments instead of upon #7.

[Limey]

It's not Biggio's fault that you and the rest of the media weren't paying attention.  Answer this, besides Rickey Henderson, who else was a better leadoff hitter in the 90's?  Who else had the character that Biggio did (note his 3 major awards surrounding the topic).

The idea that someone doesnt see Biggio as dominating is a reflection upon their laziness to understand his accomplishments instead of upon #7.

The comments section on that article is quite lively:

**  Hey Joe, maybe saying Biggio wasn't one of the most dominating players of his era and then stating that everyone you're not voting for was using PED's played in his era and were the dominant players, should then deduce that you should have voted for Biggio.
Do you see that your logic is flawed? Probably not! How the hell do you get a vote?

**  Let me see if I got this right.  Capozzi won't vote for Bagwell and Piazza because they "fall into the suspicion category," despite the lack of any evidence that they used PEDs, but he is voting for Tim Raines an acknowledged cocaine user who famously said he would slide head first not to break the vial of coke in his back pocket and would sometimes take a snort during a game.

**  The Hall of Fame is a historical document, Mr. Capozzi. Not a testament of your cognitive dissonance. The fact that you ignore Bagwell and Piazza because of your ignorant 'suspicion" is embarrassing enough. The fact that you proclaim it loudly from your irrelevant stump is quite possibly a sign of insanity. Please resign your eligibility to influence anything for the Hall of Fame. Fossils shouldn't be allowed to vote for something that is actually alive.

[Ty in Tampa]

It's not Biggio's fault that you and the rest of the media weren't paying attention.  Answer this, besides Rickey Henderson, who else was a better leadoff hitter in the 90's?  Who else had the character that Biggio did (note his 3 major awards surrounding the topic).

The idea that someone doesnt see Biggio as dominating is a reflection upon their laziness to understand his accomplishments instead of upon #7.

I've said it here before but look at Biggio's on-field accomplishments compared to first-ballot HOFer Robin Yount and aside from the 2 MVP awards, hard to tell which player is which. If that's not reason enough for these idiot voters then I've lost all hope.

[Bench]

I've said it here before but look at Biggio's on-field accomplishments compared to first-ballot HOFer Robin Yount and aside from the 2 MVP awards, hard to tell which player is which. If that's not reason enough for these idiot voters then I've lost all hope.

I'm amazed you still had any hope in these idiots.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

They have consigned themselves to needing to find a whole new batch of fans for their club, so there's no need to bother about things that interest fans of the old club.

They prove that time and time again.

[OregonStrosFan]

The comments section on that article is quite lively:

**  Hey Joe, maybe saying Biggio wasn't one of the most dominating players of his era and then stating that everyone you're not voting for was using PED's played in his era and were the dominant players, should then deduce that you should have voted for Biggio.
Do you see that your logic is flawed? Probably not! How the hell do you get a vote?

**  Let me see if I got this right.  Capozzi won't vote for Bagwell and Piazza because they "fall into the suspicion category," despite the lack of any evidence that they used PEDs, but he is voting for Tim Raines an acknowledged cocaine user who famously said he would slide head first not to break the vial of coke in his back pocket and would sometimes take a snort during a game.

**  The Hall of Fame is a historical document, Mr. Capozzi. Not a testament of your cognitive dissonance. The fact that you ignore Bagwell and Piazza because of your ignorant 'suspicion" is embarrassing enough. The fact that you proclaim it loudly from your irrelevant stump is quite possibly a sign of insanity. Please resign your eligibility to influence anything for the Hall of Fame. Fossils shouldn't be allowed to vote for something that is actually alive.

I'm not actually 'brave' enough to tread into comments sections, so appreciate your posting this...

[Fredia]

wonder if they are looking in dallas

[Tralfaz]

With Voting ending today, when is HOF announced?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

January 9, 2013, 2 pm EST.

[Reuben]

January 9, 2013, 2 pm EST.

I'm not feeling optimistic about either Bagwell or Biggio being elected. Granted, I haven't scoured the internet looking for how guys voted, but most of the noise seems to be very "eh" about Biggio, and I'd assume Bagwell might up his vote % a little but not enough to get in. Biggio seems to have succumbed to the "he's not a 1st-ballot HOF" or else the "he wasn't dominant/he hung on and compiled numbers but wasn't a great player" mindset among non-believers. I don't really need to delve into the flaws in this argument here.

[OregonStrosFan]

Long time lurker, occasional poster, blogger, and buddy @houcounterplot accepts an invitation to defend Bagwell from Pearlman.  LINK (but be forewarned, its Pearlmans blog).  Excellent stuff, worth the read!  Thanks Andy!

And though I'd normally not rec/request someone click on Pearlman's blog, article, etc. (as you all know what I think about Pearlman), thought it appropriate here as Andy busted his ass (and has been busting his ass) defending Bagwell's HOF candidacy. The click on this article'd be a nice show of support, as would IMO comments in defense (especially considering there is a lot more to say on the subject of Bagwell's HOF candidacy but space constraints, etc. pretty much limited the 'defense' to the topic of 'roids). 

[Disclosure: the photoshop is by Andy, not Pearlman.  Not the first photoshop from Andy I wish I could mis- or dis-remember, and alas won't be the last.  Just a warped sense of humor that I'm sure he's honed while lurking over here for so long reading y'all's whacked musings...]

[Limey]

This isn’t about selling books or keeping the newspaper industry alive—this is about writers irresponsibly wiping their holier-than-thou butts with another man’s legacy for the simple fact that they can, and no one is stopping them from doing it.

Awesome.  Thanks for the link, OSF.

[jester9450]

Don't think there's any way both go in at the same time although it would be nice.

[HudsonHawk]

Long time lurker, occasional poster, blogger, and buddy @houcounterplot accepts an invitation to defend Bagwell from Pearlman.  LINK (but be forewarned, its Pearlmans blog).  Excellent stuff, worth the read!  Thanks Andy!

And though I'd normally not rec/request someone click on Pearlman's blog, article, etc. (as you all know what I think about Pearlman), thought it appropriate here as Andy busted his ass (and has been busting his ass) defending Bagwell's HOF candidacy. The click on this article'd be a nice show of support, as would IMO comments in defense (especially considering there is a lot more to say on the subject of Bagwell's HOF candidacy but space constraints, etc. pretty much limited the 'defense' to the topic of 'roids). 

[Disclosure: the photoshop is by Andy, not Pearlman.  Not the first photoshop from Andy I wish I could mis- or dis-remember, and alas won't be the last.  Just a warped sense of humor that I'm sure he's honed while lurking over here for so long reading y'all's whacked musings...]

I appreciate his efforts, but I lose respect for anyone who feels he has to apologize for being an Astros fan or pulls the "we get no respect" sympathy card. Grinds my gears, really.

[Houston]

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/2013_national_baseball_hall_of_fame_election_results_to_air_live_on_january/

Why does Bob Costas get so much respect as if he's some kind of baseball historian? Last year his position on Bagwell's candidacy was "when in doubt, keep him out." That alone is reason to discount his credibility. On everything.

[geezerdonk]

I think that he has strong toupee credibility.

[Ty in Tampa]

I think that he has strong toupee credibility.

I've heard that among short folks with face-lifts, he's a God.

[Reuben]

Found this link (via the Chron's fan blog) where they tally all announced HOF votes... apparently they were very predictive of the final numbers last year. With about 14% reporting, Biggio is at 70%, Bagwell 68%.

[Bench]

Found this link (via the Chron's fan blog) where they tally all announced HOF votes... apparently they were very predictive of the final numbers last year. With about 14% reporting, Biggio is at 70%, Bagwell 68%.

I guess that bodes well for next year assuming an overwhelming amount of voters don't just vote for Maddux and nobody else.

[Randy Watson]

HOF voting befuddles me.  Tim Raines is one of the very, very elite leadoff men of all time and has not made it in yet.  He most likely will make it.  But in my view is a no brainer (as are Bags and Biggio).  If any of those three played in New York or Boston they would be first ballot.

Raines struggles to get in.  Piazza -- who was an absolute butcher behind the plate -- will sail through.

[Ron Brand]

Piazza - best hitting catcher of all time

Raines - cokehead who appeals to stat followers but few flashy counting stats

[Andyzipp]

HOF voting befuddles me.  Tim Raines is one of the very, very elite leadoff men of all time and has not made it in yet.  He most likely will make it.  But in my view is a no brainer (as are Bags and Biggio).  If any of those three played in New York or Boston they would be first ballot.

Raines struggles to get in.  Piazza -- who was an absolute butcher behind the plate -- will sail through.

Ultimately, superior offensive players are deemed more worthy than other players.

[Andy]

I appreciate his efforts, but I lose respect for anyone who feels he has to apologize for being an Astros fan or pulls the "we get no respect" sympathy card. Grinds my gears, really.

I'm sorry that's what you got from that. I didn't feel that I was apologizing for being an Astros fan - I definitely didn't mean for it to come off that way.

To be fair, though, I did play the "we get no respect" card. Mostly because it is true.

And that grinds my gears.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'm sorry that's what you got from that. I didn't feel that I was apologizing for being an Astros fan - I definitely didn't mean for it to come off that way.

To be fair, though, I did play the "we get no respect" card. Mostly because it is true.

And that grinds my gears.

Welcome! Way to go after those cocksuckers.

[Andyzipp]

I'm sorry that's what you got from that. I didn't feel that I was apologizing for being an Astros fan - I definitely didn't mean for it to come off that way.

To be fair, though, I did play the "we get no respect" card. Mostly because it is true.

And that grinds my gears.

Hudson also thinks there are too many states and wants two removed.

[Fredia]

i saw where they wanted to make texas two states..is that kind of the same thing

[Reuben]

HOF voting befuddles me.  Tim Raines is one of the very, very elite leadoff men of all time and has not made it in yet.  He most likely will make it.  But in my view is a no brainer (as are Bags and Biggio).  If any of those three played in New York or Boston they would be first ballot.

Raines struggles to get in.  Piazza -- who was an absolute butcher behind the plate -- will sail through.

I doubt Piazza sails through. I get the sense he'll suffer from the same "but he was strong, and he played in the 90's" McCarthyism as Bagwell.

I agree about Raines though. At his peak, he was a brilliant player. Oddly, Paul Molitor, who was, like Raines, a table-setter (and also had a drug problem, right?) did sail through his first time with 85%... Come to think of it, Molitor's kind of similar to Biggio. Except he was mostly a DH.

[jbm]

Being oblivious has its perks, as I don't even know who Jeff Pearlman is, but nice job on the Bagwell defense. 

[Noe]

Hudson also thinks there are too many states and wants two removed.

The two that still serve sweet tea or the two that allow people to wear caps indoors?

[HudsonHawk]

I'm sorry that's what you got from that. I didn't feel that I was apologizing for being an Astros fan - I definitely didn't mean for it to come off that way.

To be fair, though, I did play the "we get no respect" card. Mostly because it is true.

And that grinds my gears.

It's true that the Astros get the respect they earn.  And fans of every team claim the same thing.  Jeez, you oughtta hear Yankee fans complain that they get no respect or that ESPN hates them.  Whining about it only comes across as petty and ill-informed.

[HudsonHawk]

i saw where they wanted to make texas two states..is that kind of the same thing

Which would mean you'd now be required to have four license plates on your vehicle.  Which would make Neil happy, but no one else.

[HudsonHawk]

If any of those three played in New York or Boston they would be first ballot.

Just a point of order, but Raines *did* play in NY. 

[austro]

Ultimately, superior offensive players are deemed more worthy than other players.

That's because everybody knows hitting is hard, but they think they could play defense if somebody would just let them on the field.

[chuck]

It's true that the Astros get the respect they earn.

And they get what they deserve after having been ramrodded into the American League against the wishes of their fan base and against all common sense and thanks to the collusion of a fraudulent, reptilian fuck of a former owner and a racist war profiteer of a new owner. So, sorry, don't expect any respect for the organization in your lifetime. Find a new hobby or get used to it.

[Jacksonian]

Jeez, you oughtta hear Yankee fans complain that they get no respect or that ESPN hates them. 

A number of my relatives are New Englander Yankees fans.  They and their friends admit ESPN has a Yankees bias and believe it is deserved.  Without the Yankees Major League Baseball is diminished just as without Notre Dame college football is diminished, etc.  So it makes sense that a company located in New England that focuses on sports should have a bias toward showing/discussing all things Yankees.  And they readily admit that attention is both positive and negative.  But also admit that any attention is better than none.

[ValpoCory]

Come to think of it, Molitor's kind of similar to Biggio. Except he was mostly a DH.

I hope voters agree with you.  But I have a feeling an additional 259 hits over Biggio, combined with a much higher batting average that writers like, and being a great postseason performer (1993 WS MVP) played a large factor.   Writers largely ignore such trivialities like leadership, durability, and defense.  In fact, durability is oftern used against Biggio.  I'll be happy with Biggio getting 75.0% of the vote.   But if he falls short, I would guess Biggio would make 80% next time.

[ValpoCory]

Without the Yankees Major League Baseball is diminished just as without Notre Dame college football is diminished, etc.  

Slightly different levels of diminishing.   Notre Dame went away for 20 years until recently and attendance and TV ratings soared during that time.  Heck, in the early 90's, UT was practically giving away tickets at H-E-B for $5 in order to get their attendance to 60K.  Now, the 100,000th ticket still costs you $40 or more.

[Bench]

Come to think of it, Molitor's kind of similar to Biggio. Except he was mostly a DH.

I think Robin Yount is even more similar to Biggio.  Their offensive and defensive careers are a close match.  The main difference is Yount's two MVPs, but those obviously don't matter that much to the voters (see Murphy, Dale).   

[Limey]

Which would mean you'd now be required to have four license plates on your vehicle.  Which would make Neil happy, but no one else.

Four at the back, none at the front.

[HudsonHawk]

In fact, durability is oftern used against Biggio.

Used against him how?

[Andyzipp]

Used against him how?

He just hung around to get his hits.

[Bench]

Used against him how?

He just hung on the last few years to accumulate stats.

[HudsonHawk]

He just hung around to get his hits.

I tend to separate "longevity" from "durability".  Durability, to me, is represented by him leading the league in games played at his position for a decade or so in his prime.  Perhaps voters are conflating the two, but I see them as different qualities.

[Andyzipp]

I tend to separate "longevity" from "durability".  Durability, to me, is represented by him leading the league in games played at his position for a decade or so in his prime.  Perhaps voters are conflating the two, but I see them as different qualities.

You also tend to use the actual definition of words, spell things correctly, and have refrained from having coitus with your relatives.  Two different audiences.

[MusicMan]

Hudson also thinks there are too many states and wants two removed.

He is not a crackpot.

[Jose Cruz III]

Anybody live near Dearborn, MI?  I need a flaming bag of shit delivered to Pat Caputo's doorstep.

There's already a flaming bag of it living there.

[Noe]

He just hung around to get his hits.

They said the same thing about Hammerin' Hank Aaron and of course Willie Mays.

[austro]

They said the same thing about Hammerin' Hank Aaron and of course Willie Mays.

But there wasn't much doubt about them going in even if they didn't hang around.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

But there wasn't much doubt about them going in even if they didn't hang around.

And yet, some idiots still didn't vote for them.

[austro]

And yet, some idiots still didn't vote for them.

Yeah, that's really hard to figure out. There ought to be a way to recall HOF voters.

[Ron Brand]

They just weren't first ballot Hall of Famers.

[Fredia]

where would i put them

[drew corleone]

Slightly different levels of diminishing.   Notre Dame went away for 20 years until recently and attendance and TV ratings soared during that time.  Heck, in the early 90's, UT was practically giving away tickets at H-E-B for $5 in order to get their attendance to 60K.  Now, the 100,000th ticket still costs you $40 or more.

Maybe once per year. For a conference game you're dropping at least $80.

[ValpoCory]

Nice article on Bidge forom Tim Kurkjian, complete with a quote from Tony Gwynn, which I take with a grain of salt, since Tony said Rickey and Biggio were the two dirtiest players in baseball.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id/8809931/craig-biggio-belongs-cooperstown

[geezerdonk]

Nobody had a filthier batting helmet.

[remy]

Nobody had a filthier batting helmet.

Exactly. He is probably the dirtiest player of all time.

[Fredia]

but in the cleanest way

[Andyzipp]

Nice article on Bidge forom Tim Kurkjian, complete with a quote from Tony Gwynn, which I take with a grain of salt, since Tony said Rickey and Biggio were the two dirtiest players in baseball.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id/8809931/craig-biggio-belongs-cooperstown

Dirtiest?  He said they were the biggest "hot dogs"...whatever the fuck that means.

[MusicMan]

Dirtiest?  He said they were the biggest "hot dogs"...whatever the fuck that means.

It's a euphamism.  He saw them in the shower.

[Ron Brand]

THT has its annual HOF prediction. Biggio is, unsurprisingly, on the dirty bubble.

[Houston]

THT has its annual HOF prediction. Biggio is, unsurprisingly, on the dirty bubble.

Bagwell will get more than 52% and he'll have a higher percentage than Piazza.

[Ron Brand]

Posnanski weighs in.

[MusicMan]

Stark fills all 10 spots, includes Bags and Biggio

[cougar]

This guy

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/heatindex/articles/20121220nobody-deserves-my-hall-vote-year.html

What a stain.

Some douchebag is going around on the comments saying that Biggio was a juicer.  I'm responding.  It won't do any good, but I'll feel better.

[Andyzipp]

Some douchebag is going around on the comments saying that Biggio was a juicer.  I'm responding.  It won't do any good, but I'll feel better.

chuck?

[chuck]

chuck?

In the Astros version of Beatles versus Stones I'll definitely admit to being a Bagwell guy. Despite that it is not difficult to realize that Biggio was a great player (great) for many years. He may not have been a defensive genius but for most of his career he was far from a liability at second base and even if you forget that he has 3,000 hits his offensive numbers are well beyond reproach.

To me he is a no-brainer first ballot and I find the mere suggestion that he was a juicer insanely fucking stupid.

No, there's only one high profile Astro that I particularly dislike and for him to get into the Hall of Fame he's going to have to buy a ticket just like I will.

[geezerdonk]

Lance is not your boy.

[MusicMan]

No, there's only one high profile Astro that I particularly dislike and for him to get into the Hall of Fame he's going to have to buy a ticket just like I will.

The one that will be a part-time pitching coach soon?

[Limey]

The one that will be a part-time bitching coach soon?

FIFY

[Astros Fan in Big D]

No, there's only one high profile Astro that I particularly dislike and for him to get into the Hall of Fame he's going to have to buy a ticket just like I will.

I don't know what your problem is with Luis Pujols, but you need to let bygones be bygones.

[MusicMan]

2 of MLB.com's 16 voters voted for Jack Morris and nobody else.

Let's not pretend this year's voting is rational in any way, shape, or form.

[Mr. Happy]

2 of MLB.com's 16 voters voted for Jack Morris and nobody else.

Let's not pretend thisany year's voting is rational in any way, shape, or form.

FIFY

[Houston]

It seems odd that it only takes a 51% majority in a democracy and 66% to pass a constitutional amendment, but it takes 75% to vote a baseball player into a museum that is separate from the league it represents.

[astrosfan76]

2 of MLB.com's 16 voters voted for Jack Morris and nobody else.

Let's not pretend this year's voting is rational in any way, shape, or form.

Like this guy:

Ken Gurnick
Ballot: Morris

Like Bert Blyleven, Morris has flaws (a 3.90 ERA for example). But he gets my vote for more than a decade of ace performance that included three 20-win seasons, Cy Young Award votes in seven seasons and MVP votes in five. As for players from the Steroid Era, I won't vote for any of them.

If you proclaim that you will not vote for any players over an extended period of time, you deserve to lose your vote.  If there are no deserving candidates, fine.  But, if you're going to block an entire generation of players who played during an undefined period of time, you shouldn't cost worthy candidates percentage points.  Since the "Steroid Era" doesn't really have a defined starting and ending date (has it really ended?), in essence, you're saying that you won't vote for anyone well into the 2020s and beyond.  No Maddux, no Jeter, no Pedro, and on and on.  Why exactly do you need a ballot?

[Houston]

Like this guy:

If you proclaim that you will not vote for any players over an extended period of time, you deserve to lose your vote.  If there are no deserving candidates, fine.  But, if you're going to block an entire generation of players who played during an undefined period of time, you shouldn't cost worthy candidates percentage points.  Since the "Steroid Era" doesn't really have a defined starting and ending date (has it really ended?), in essence, you're saying that you won't vote for anyone well into the 2020s and beyond.  No Maddux, no Jeter, no Pedro, and on and on.  Why exactly do you need a ballot?

In addition, if Jack Morris is deserving, did he vote for him in the past? If not, why not?

[Noe]

In addition, if Jack Morris is deserving, did he vote for him in the past? If not, why not?

And pitchers juice too. Just saying.

[Mr. Happy]

And pitchers juice too. Just saying.

Say it ain't so!

[ValpoCory]

Like this guy:

If you proclaim that you will not vote for any players over an extended period of time, you deserve to lose your vote.  If there are no deserving candidates, fine.  But, if you're going to block an entire generation of players who played during an undefined period of time, you shouldn't cost worthy candidates percentage points.  Since the "Steroid Era" doesn't really have a defined starting and ending date (has it really ended?), in essence, you're saying that you won't vote for anyone well into the 2020s and beyond.  No Maddux, no Jeter, no Pedro, and on and on.  Why exactly do you need a ballot?

+1.   In essence, a "No" vote is more powerful than a "Yes" vote.   If you are looking to create a voting faction, it'd be much easier to pool together "No" votes and be immediately powerful than with "Yes" votes.

[Reuben]

And pitchers juice too. Just saying.

And the NFL had steroid use in the 80's, Jose Canseco was likely using by '86 or '87... who knows who else started using then or in the early 90's. The writers (I'll bet Ken Gurnick included) have already voted for and elected several guys who played during the "Steroid Era"... Rickey, Gwynn, Molitor, Winfield, Ripken, Ryan, etc. How do we know all of those guys were clean? Because most of them were older when 'roids got popular? Yeah, I guess that's good enough. Nobody ever took 'roids to extend their careers or recapture past glory, right?

[Noe]

And the NFL had steroid use in the 80's, Jose Canseco was likely using by '86 or '87... who knows who else started using then or in the early 90's. The writers (I'll bet Ken Gurnick included) have already voted for and elected several guys who played during the "Steroid Era"... Rickey, Gwynn, Molitor, Winfield, Ripken, Ryan, etc. How do we know all of those guys were clean? Because most of them were older when 'roids got popular? Yeah, I guess that's good enough. Nobody ever took 'roids to extend their careers or recapture past glory, right?

"RIGHT!!!" - Roger Clemens

[OregonStrosFan]

Hall of Fame Voting Process Must Change, -Tyler Kepner - LINK

[Reuben]

"RIGHT!!!" - Roger Clemens

"PRECISELY!!!" - Rafael Palmeiro (while wagging his finger)

[OregonStrosFan]

Robothal is a yes on Bagwell, no (and no mention) on Biggio. LINK

[HudsonHawk]

Hall of Fame Voting Process Must Change, -Tyler Kepner - LINK

That's a very good article.  If the writers aren't careful, they're gonna ride their high horse right out of the process.

[OregonStrosFan]

In addition, if Jack Morris is deserving, did he vote for him in the past? If not, why not?

Davidoff with a reasoned explanation on why he switched his vote on Morris (from yes to no). LINK

[chuck]

That's a very good article.  If the writers aren't careful, they're gonna ride their high horse right out of the process.

I was doing fine until he suggested that Joe Buck deserves a vote.

[OregonStrosFan]

That's a very good article.  If the writers aren't careful, they're gonna ride their high horse right out of the process.

Agreed.  And fwiw, Kepner's body of work is solid...

[HudsonHawk]

I was doing fine until he suggested that Joe Buck deserves a vote.

I'd take Buck over some of the hacks out there.  The fact that JdJO gets a vote and Vin Scully's opinion is ignored tells you all you need to know about the need to revamp the process.

[astrosfan76]

Robothal is a yes on Bagwell, no (and no mention) on Biggio. LINK

Guess if his position is that no one getting in is a good thing, then omitting the most-likely candidate makes sense. But, it sounds like a cop-out to me.

[OregonStrosFan]

2 of MLB.com's 16 voters voted for Jack Morris and nobody else.

Let's not pretend this year's voting is rational in any way, shape, or form.

Interesting 'splits' in these 18 votes.

14 of the 16 (87.5%) voted for Biggio (with only the 2 'Morris onlys' not voting for him).

8 of 16 (50%) voted for Bagwell.  The no votes included:
 - 2 'Morris onlys'
 - 2 PED / 'does this guy feel right' types
 - 4 who cast yes votes for Bonds and Clemens (2 of whom voted for Piazza and 2 of whom voted for Palmiero).

And as much as I feel like Bags is getting overlooked, Edgar Martinez with only 3 of 16 votes?!?  Seriously?!?

[juliogotay]

I'd take Buck over some of the hacks out there.  The fact that JdJO gets a vote and Vin Scully's opinion is ignored tells you all you need to know about the need to revamp the process.

Good point.

[OregonStrosFan]

SNS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: In case you have an opportunity to catch a re-air of MLB Networks HOF Roundtable, let me just say DO NOT. Unless you are just looking for incentive to cause damage to persons and/or property around you, there is no reason you should subject yourself to that. 

You're welcome.

[Houston]

SNS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: In case you have an opportunity to catch a re-air of MLB Networks HOF Roundtable, let me just say DO NOT. Unless you are just looking for incentive to cause damage to persons and/or property around you, there is no reason you should subject yourself to that. 

You're welcome.

I watched that and didn't sleep well afterwards. Those writers are idiots. See my fuller rant on the Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio for 2013 Hall of Fame Facebook page.

Idiots, I tell ya!

[Houston]

Baseball writers are the same one who determined that Barry Bonds was the Most Valuable Player in his league 7 times. Those exact same writers determined that Roger Clemens was the best pitcher in 7 different season. Now those writers want to make a statement about Bonds and Clemens tainting the game? They have no credibility on this issue. None.

[moriartp]

Baseball writers are the same one who determined that Barry Bonds was the Most Valuable Player in his league 7 times. Those exact same writers determined that Roger Clemens was the best pitcher in 7 different season. Now those writers want to make a statement about Bonds and Clemens tainting the game? They have no credibility on this issue. None.

Well said.

[Reuben]

SNS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: In case you have an opportunity to catch a re-air of MLB Networks HOF Roundtable, let me just say DO NOT. Unless you are just looking for incentive to cause damage to persons and/or property around you, there is no reason you should subject yourself to that. 

You're welcome.

If Jon Heyman was involved, then yeah, it's probably best I never watch it.

[Ron Brand]

Baseball writers are the same one who determined that Barry Bonds was the Most Valuable Player in his league 7 times. Those exact same writers determined that Roger Clemens was the best pitcher in 7 different season. Now those writers want to make a statement about Bonds and Clemens tainting the game? They have no credibility on this issue. None.

I thought they were reacting more as a group who felt lied to and exposed in public as sycophants on the Good Time Gravy Train.

[Houston]

If Jon Heyman was involved, then yeah, it's probably best I never watch it.

I'll save you from watching. Heyman announced that his ballot included the following (and only the following) players:

Tim Raines, Jack Morris, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Curt Schilling and Fred McGriff.

At the bottom of his ballot explanation was this:

Not this time
31. Barry Bonds: Love the 1.422 OPS in 2004. When he was 40.

32. Roger Clemens: Twilight of his career was better than real part of his career.

33. Mark McGwire: Can be compared to only three batters after age 33: Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Bonds. Before that, he was compared to Jay Buhner.

34. Rafael Palmeiro: Hall of Fame stats and congressional acting performance.

35. Sammy Sosa: There's really no more hard evidence on him than a few others, but between the corked bat, the 66 home runs, a report of a failed 2003 test and confused testimony, he seems emblematic of an era. Will delay my vote on him until more evidence is in.

36. Mike Piazza: As with Sosa, I delayed my "yes" vote on the greatest hitting catcher of all-time to await more evidence. It has been reported he's writing a book, so perhaps he will shed some light.

37. Jeff Bagwell: Deserving on the numbers, but as with Sosa and Piazza, I delayed my "yes" vote until further proof/word.

[HudsonHawk]

I'll save you from watching. Heyman announced that his ballot included the following (and only the following) players:

Tim Raines, Jack Morris, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Curt Schilling and Fred McGriff.

At the bottom of his ballot explanation was this:

Not this time
31. Barry Bonds: Love the 1.422 OPS in 2004. When he was 40.

32. Roger Clemens: Twilight of his career was better than real part of his career.

33. Mark McGwire: Can be compared to only three batters after age 33: Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Bonds. Before that, he was compared to Jay Buhner.

34. Rafael Palmeiro: Hall of Fame stats and congressional acting performance.

35. Sammy Sosa: There's really no more hard evidence on him than a few others, but between the corked bat, the 66 home runs, a report of a failed 2003 test and confused testimony, he seems emblematic of an era. Will delay my vote on him until more evidence is in.

36. Mike Piazza: As with Sosa, I delayed my "yes" vote on the greatest hitting catcher of all-time to await more evidence. It has been reported he's writing a book, so perhaps he will shed some light.

37. Jeff Bagwell: Deserving on the numbers, but as with Sosa and Piazza, I delayed my "yes" vote until further proof/word.

The fact that he votes for Mattingly says it all.  But did he not realize Biggio was on the ballot?  Or did he think Biggio was just a no-brainer, fall off the ballot, also ran?

[Tralfaz]

1pm today, drum roll please...

[Houston]

The fact that he votes for Mattingly says it all.  But did he not realize Biggio was on the ballot?  Or did he think Biggio was just a no-brainer, fall off the ballot, also ran?

Biggio was on his "near misses" list, along with Bernie Williams, Kenny Lofton, Larry Walker, et al.

[subnuclear]

Stark fills all 10 spots, includes Bags and Biggio

Really any voter who doesn't have at least 8 players on this year ballot is an asshole.

[HudsonHawk]

Biggio was on his "near misses" list, along with Bernie Williams, Kenny Lofton, Larry Walker, et al.

In other words, he doesn't think Biggio is a HOFer.  But he thinks Mattingly is.  There you go folks.

[MusicMan]

In other words, he doesn't think Biggio is a HOFer.  But he thinks Mattingly is.  There you go folks.

I've been stocking up on outrage.  I expect to need a lot today.

[MusicMan]

Interesting to see the votes at BP:

BP Staff Voting Cumulative Results
Barry Bonds, 31, 93.9%
Roger Clemens, 31, 93.9%
Jeff Bagwell, 30, 90.9%
Craig Biggio, 27, 81.8%
Mike Piazza, 28, 84.8%
Tim Raines, 27, 81.8%
Alan Trammell, 27, 81.8%
---
Curt Schilling, 24, 72.7%
Edgar Martinez, 22, 66.7%
Mark McGwire, 14, 42.4%
Rafael Palmeiro, 9, 27.3%
Larry Walker, 9, 27.3%
Sammy Sosa, 7, 21.2%
Kenny Lofton, 6, 18.2%
Fred McGriff, 3, 9.1%
Sandy Alomar Jr., 1, 3%
Don Mattingly, 1, 3%
Dale Murphy, 1, 3%

[MusicMan]

Really any voter who doesn't have at least 8 players on this year ballot is an asshole.

So the operative question of this year's class is, "How many assholes we got in this place?!?!"

[Andyzipp]

I've resigned myself to neither of them getting in.  Biggio this year, Bagwell ever.

[roadrunner]

I don't think anyone gets in this year.

[MusicMan]

I've resigned myself to neither of them getting in.  Biggio this year, Bagwell ever.

I don't know that there are any recent cases of players going over 60% so early and never getting in.

Also, I found this article interesting if only for including an actual picture of the ballot.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't think anyone gets in this year.

There is word going around that the inside scoop confirms this.

[Andyzipp]

I don't know that there are any recent cases of players going over 60% so early and never getting in.

I'm not certain that the voters have ever been more willfully ignorant of an individual's accomplishments than they are about his.

[MusicMan]

I'm not certain that the voters have ever been more willfully ignorant of an individual's accomplishments than they are about his.

They know his accomplishments.  They're just assuming he's a steroid user.

[Houston]

They know his accomplishments.  They're just assuming he's a steroid user.

Jon Heyman admitting he didn't know Bagwell's accomplishments.

[MusicMan]

Jon Heyman admitting he didn't know Bagwell's accomplishments.

Never attribute willful ignorance to Heyman.  He's just that stupid.

[Reuben]

Really any voter who doesn't have at least 8 players on this year ballot is an asshole.

To me, what Bonds and Clemens did, and the way they have refused to come clean, is so egregious that, while I think their pre-roiding careers easily justify them being HOFers, I wouldn't vote for them, this year at least.

My vote would've been: Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, Trammell, Raines, E. Martinez... Schilling and Murphy maybe.

[subnuclear]

To me, what Bonds and Clemens did, and the way they have refused to come clean, is so egregious that, while I think their pre-roiding careers easily justify them being HOFers, I wouldn't vote for them, this year at least.

My vote would've been: Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, Trammell, Raines, E. Martinez... Schilling and Murphy maybe.

Ok, let's make it 7.

[Reuben]

Jon Heyman admitting he didn't know Bagwell's accomplishments.

Where? I might want to see this. It is absolutely ridiculous that any HOF voter would not bother to simply look up the stats/accomplishments of each player on the ballot, particularly the ones who have as much support as Bagwell. If you're a reporter, that kind of shit should be very easy for you.

[Houston]

Where? I might want to see this. It is absolutely ridiculous that any HOF voter would not bother to simply look up the stats/accomplishments of each player on the ballot, particularly the ones who have as much support as Bagwell. If you're a reporter, that kind of shit should be very easy for you.

I heard him say it on one of the MLB shows just before last year's announcement. He's the whole reason I started the Facebook page. I compiled all of the data on Bagwell and Biggio in one place and sent him the link. Still, he didn't vote for either one.

[MusicMan]

I just realized that next year, I will have to go about the country killing every voter that votes for Frank Thomas and not for Bagwell.

[Houston]

I just realized that next year, I will have to go about the country killing every voter that votes for Frank Thomas and not for Bagwell.

There's probably an app for that.

[juliogotay]

All three Dallas Morning News writers with a vote claimed to have voted for Biggio and Bagwell. I don't know what that portends but there you go.

[moriartp]

I just realized that next year, I will have to go about the country killing every voter that votes for Frank Thomas and not for Bagwell.

but 500 homruns

[roadrunner]

When is the actual announcement?  2:00?

[Limey]

There's probably an app for that.

Working on it...

I still remember Whitey Gammons - virtually in the same breath - describing Thomas as a no-brainer and Bagwell as undeserving.  I needed a new TV anyway.

[Bench]

When is the actual announcement?  2:00?

Eastern time.

[BudGirl]

When is the actual announcement?  2:00?

The results for 2013 will be announced live on MLB Network and simulcast on MLB.com at 2 p.m. ET as part of a three-hour special presentation that begins at noon.

[Andyzipp]

The results for 2013 will be announced live on MLB Network and simulcast on MLB.com at 2 p.m. ET as part of a three-hour special presentation that begins at noon.

That's a long time to talk about no one getting in.

[Bench]

That's a long time to talk about no one getting in.

When no one gets in, you have to mention everyone who didn't.

[MusicMan]

Dammit, my pitchfork has gone missing.  Anyone got a spare?  I can trade an extra torch.

[geezerdonk]

I refuse to buy books or read articles written during the Child Molester Era.

[Houston]

Working on it...

I still remember Whitey Gammons - virtually in the same breath - describing Thomas as a no-brainer and Bagwell as undeserving.  I needed a new TV anyway.

You must be thinking about somebody else. Gammons has been a Bagwell supporter since his days in New Britain. Here's the column from Bagwell's first time on the ballot in 2010. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101226&content_id=16368866&c_id=mlb

[Houston]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic_id=6003532&content_id=25543337

[ValpoCory]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?topic_id=6003532&content_id=25543337

Thanks.

[Reuben]

Harold Reynolds (and presumably others) think Biggio is worthy of the HOF but don't think he should go in this year because "only 44 players have ever been elected on the 1st ballot". But, Harold... is that right, that only 44 have ever been 1st ballot? Lots of deserving candidates missed because of stupid voting. Why perpetuate those mistakes?

And, by the way, Paul Molitor was one of those 44 (easily, with 85%). Explain to me how Molitor was better than Biggio.

[OregonStrosFan]

There's probably an app for that.

First time I've cracked a smile today. Thanks Houston!!!

[ValpoCory]

Harold Reynolds (and presumably others) think Biggio is worthy of the HOF but don't think he should go in this year because "only 44 players have ever been elected on the 1st ballot". But, Harold... is that right, that only 44 have ever been 1st ballot? Lots of deserving candidates missed because of stupid voting. Why perpetuate those mistakes?

And, by the way, Paul Molitor was one of those 44 (easily, with 85%). Explain to me how Molitor was better than Biggio.

[sarc]   World Series MVP!!   Batting Average!!!    [/sarc]


And how annoying is it that these dorks can't pronounce Bidge's last name correctly.

[OregonStrosFan]

Jon Heyman admitting he didn't know Bagwell's accomplishments.

Don't waste your energy on Heyman.
Calcaterra has you covered...

[ValpoCory]

No one gets in this year. 

[Houston]

Biggio 39 votes short.

[ValpoCory]

Biggio 39 votes short.

Cabrera got in.

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=114120.msg457353#msg457353

[subnuclear]

So stupid. (The voters, I mean).

[Guinness]

Disgusting. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Ridiculous.  Voting process needs a complete overhaul.

[NeilT]

No one gets in this year. 

Well of course not.  I'm the only person who deserved to get in this year, and I wasn't on the ballot.  Again.

[OregonStrosFan]

Biggio 39 votes short.

I'm Twitter / general media 'dark' right now, so you mind posting the numbers / percentages for Biggio and Bagwell here? Thank!

[BudGirl]

biggio was 68%  i didn't hear the percentage for bagwell but he was 3rd in voting.

[Guinness]

Ridiculous.  Voting process needs a complete overhaul.

Maybe baseball people should vote, like managers/coaches and 10/5 players.  Who gives a rat's ass what some chronicle hack thinks?  or ny post...they don't know any more about the game than your average newspaper commenter...

[EasTexAstro]

biggio was 68%  i didn't hear the percentage for bagwell but he was 3rd in voting.

59.6%

[Houston]

I'm Twitter / general media 'dark' right now, so you mind posting the numbers / percentages for Biggio and Bagwell here? Thank!

Top 5 candidates this year:

Craig Biggio 68.2%
Jack Morris 67.7%
Jeff Bagwell 59.6%
Mike Piazza 57.8%
Tim Raines 52.2%

[Arky Vaughan]

Top 5 candidates this year:

Craig Biggio 68.2%
Jack Morris 67.7%
Jeff Bagwell 59.6%
Mike Piazza 57.8%
Tim Raines 52.2%

At least they finished at the top of the recent players.

The BBWAA is a monster-size sack of sh*t.

[OregonStrosFan]

Appreciate the responses!

[ValpoCory]

Bagwell's percentages:   41.7 --> 56.0 --> 59.6

He's likely in within 5 years.

[Ron Brand]

Except next year it becomes even more jammed and difficult to get in.

Hey, on the good side, if you'd like a nice summer vacation and a visit to the Hall of Fame, the weekend of the ceremonies ought to not be too crowded.

There will still be an induction ceremony in Cooperstown, N.Y., on July 28. Longtime Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert, turn-of-the-20th-century umpire Hank O'Day and 19th-century catcher Deacon White were elected to the Hall last month by the Pre-Integration Committee, and their memories and heirs will be honored on that date. All three are deceased.

Tom Cheek, who called the first 4,306 regular-season games and 41 postseason games in Blue Jays history, will receive the Ford C. Frick Award for "major contributions to baseball" posthumously on July 27 during a ceremony at Doubleday Field. He is survived by his wife, Shirley, who is expected to be in Cooperstown to accept the award.

Paul Hagen of MLB.com will be presented the J.G. Taylor Spink Award for "meritorious contributions to baseball writing" and will also be honored at Doubleday Field that day.

[astrosfan76]

Bagwell's percentages:   41.7 --> 56.0 --> 59.6

He's likely in within 5 years.

I hope so, but I think it's going to be hard to make up >15% that quickly with the reasoning of the yo-yos who vote.  

[NeilT]

In 14th Centure Venice, they had a system for selecting the Doge that went something like this:  40 people would sit in a room and choose 10 people, none of whom could be among the 40.  The 40 would sit in a room and choose 30 people, none of whom could be in the 50.  30 people would sit in a room and choose 10 people, none of whom could be in the 80.  10 people would sit an a room and choose 40 people, none of whom could be in the 90.  40 people would sit in a room and choose the Doge.  It all makes perfect sense to me now.  Choosing the voters is the important part of the process.

[geezerdonk]

What about the blinds?

[ValpoCory]

Pedro "I voted for Bill Mueller" Gomez published his ballot:  Morris, Lee Smith, Trammell.

He has always hated the Astros.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_/id/8824295/mlb-craig-biggio-elected-espn-2013-baseball-hall-fame-ballot

[Limey]

You must be thinking about somebody else. Gammons has been a Bagwell supporter since his days in New Britain. Here's the column from Bagwell's first time on the ballot in 2010. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101226&content_id=16368866&c_id=mlb

Admittedly, this was a while ago, while both players were still playing (and pre-arthritis for Bagwell).  That's why it stuck in my memory, because it was even more wrong then than it is now.

And it was Gammons for sure. 

[MusicMan]

Murray Chass is the biggest bloviating idiot of all, and I sincerely wish bad things for him.

[Bench]

Muchie Peachie?  WTF?

[subnuclear]

Murray Chass is the biggest bloviating idiot of all, and I sincerely wish bad things for him.

He should spend more time apologizing to Stan Musial.

[Reuben]

Lots of Young-Stros on Twitter baffled at the Biggio exclusion. For once I agree with Cosart's questioning tone:

JarredCosart I guess 3000 hits is an easy accomplishment. Are these guys serious?

[ferret]

“It’s just one of those things you don’t control,” Biggio said last week. “The résumé has already been submitted, and you just hope it was good enough for the writers.

We’ll take this year first, and we’ll go from there. I’m just living in the present, and I’m not going to look down the road right now.”

Biggio, he could roll out of bed today and hit a double. 

[Bench]

“It’s just one of those things you don’t control,” Biggio said last week. “The résumé has already been submitted, and you just hope it was good enough for the writers.

We’ll take this year first, and we’ll go from there. I’m just living in the present, and I’m not going to look down the road right now.”

Biggio, he could roll out of bed today and hit a double. 

He's just got to keep grinding. 

[JimR]

“It’s just one of those things you don’t control,” Biggio said last week. “The résumé has already been submitted, and you just hope it was good enough for the writers.

We’ll take this year first, and we’ll go from there. I’m just living in the present, and I’m not going to look down the road right now.”

Biggio, he could roll out of bed today and hit a double. 

a double cliche

[OregonStrosFan]

There is a 'good news, bad news' component to no one getting into the Hall this year.

Good news: Look for the bloviating assclowns of the 'morality' wing to pronounce their work as done, and go back to voting as usual (after all, there are 2 Braves on the list, and since eh played with Larry Wayne are without argument pure as driven snow).

Bad news: the bloviating assclowns of the 'morality' wing go back to voting as usual... Idiotically... Which doesn't bode particularly well for Bagwell and Biggio next year either.  (And with all their spare time from not having to profess their moral superiority, they will have more time to figure out new and creative ways to call Biggio a 'compiler' and new and creative ways to say Bagwell was shit...).

[ferret]

a double cliche

I thought about going to third.

[Andyzipp]

“It’s just one of those things you don’t control,” Biggio said last week. “The résumé has already been submitted, and you just hope it was good enough for the writers.

We’ll take this year first, and we’ll go from there. I’m just living in the present, and I’m not going to look down the road right now.”

Biggio, he could roll out of bed today and hit a double.  

Some times, it rains.

[astrosfan76]

Murray Chass is the biggest bloviating idiot of all, and I sincerely wish bad things for him.

At first glance, I was actually going to defend the guy because he's actually willing to give up his vote.  I vehemently disagree with his reasoning, but am glad to potentially see one less ignorant voter in the process.  Then, I kept reading...And, no, Murray Chass, I will not get off your lawn.

[Gizzmonic]

Why don't we just close the Hall of Fame to new membership?  That way, luminaries like anyone who ever played on a Yankees team in the 1950's can't be tainted by nobodies like Mike Piazza and Curt Schilling.

[remy]

Muchie Peachie?  WTF?

Once you're off the 'roids, I guess estrogen really does take over.

[JackAstro]

Muchie Peachie?  WTF?

The google tells me it's how a person might say "much appreciated", if that person is an asshole.

[OregonStrosFan]

I might've missed this earlier in the thread (my apologies if so)... but... Kurkjian's case for Biggio in the HOF (from 1/6/13): LINK

[OregonStrosFan]

Good stuff from Jayson Stark: LINK (is the Hall of Fame a Cathedral or Museum)

[MusicMan]

Check this out:

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
I'm appreciative of the 105 writers who made their ballots public: http://bit.ly/VIj5mD . Their ballots vs. overall results very interesting.
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
Biggio: 75.2% reveal, 68.2% overall. Bagwell: 71.4% vs. 59.6%. Piazza: 65.7% vs. 57.8%. Bonds 48.6% vs. 36.2%. Clemens 48.6% vs. 37.8%.

I'd say those that did not reveal trend pretty strong towards protest votes.

[Limey]

I'd say those that did not reveal trend pretty strong towards protest votes pussies.

FIFY

[DVauthrin]

Good stuff from Jayson Stark: LINK (is the Hall of Fame a Cathedral or Museum)

What a wonderful and on point article.  No matter how much you might try, you can't erase the bad events from history.

[Fredia]

only ones they mention on the radio news of course clemens, bonds, sosa....steriod

[Reuben]

What a wonderful and on point article.  No matter how much you might try, you can't erase the bad events from history.

Exactly. This was interesting to me:

Then we'll also need to contemplate another powerful question: What happens if we elect a player one of these years and later find out that he, too, was a performance-enhancing drug user? Or here's a tougher question: What if we've already elected somebody like that?

I bet we have, to be honest. I know I'm not alone in believing that. When I had this conversation with one baseball official recently, he told me, with no hesitation, he thinks we probably have.

They had a phone interview with Fergie Jenkins during the MLB Network coverage today. They were talking about the steroid angle, and I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure he said that some of his fellow HOF'ers suspect at least one member of juicing.

[austro]

This was interesting to me:They had a phone interview with Fergie Jenkins during the MLB Network coverage today. They were talking about the steroid angle, and I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure he said that some of his fellow HOF'ers suspect at least one member of juicing.

My money is on Rickey Henderson.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm going with "Ragin' Robby" Alomar.

[Ebby Calvin]

Nolan.  Prove me wrong.

[juliogotay]

Exactly. This was interesting to me:They had a phone interview with Fergie Jenkins during the MLB Network coverage today. They were talking about the steroid angle, and I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure he said that some of his fellow HOF'ers suspect at least one member of juicing.

Fuck Fergie Jenkins. He was busted with cocaine at the Toronto airport if I remember correctely. Not a PED but no he's not a choirboy either.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Murray Chass, the C and H are silent. That son of a bitch is so vapid and barren that when he's dead and buried, nothing will grow over the ground he'll spoil.

[Reuben]

Nolan.  Prove me wrong.

Aging Texas fireballer, let go by his long-time team, thought to be over the hill, but already with a HOF career in the bag, turns to steroids just to prove people wrong and feed his enormous ego? Come on.

[Andyzipp]

Aging Texas fireballer, let go by his long-time team, thought to be over the hill, but already with a HOF career in the bag, turns to steroids just to prove people wrong and feed his enormous ego? Come on.

Wasn't he on the Rangers with Canseco?

[OregonStrosFan]

Wasn't he on the Rangers with Canseco?

and Rafael Palmeiro (5 years)?!?

[hostros7]

and Rafael Palmeiro (5 years)?!?

And he's bald and has raisins for a sack.  Everyone knows those are side effects of prolonged steroid use. 

[OregonStrosFan]

Interesting read on drugs in sports... From the 1969 SI Vault... LINK

[OregonStrosFan]

Posnanski talks with Jeff Idelso, President of the Baseball Hall of Fame.  LINK

A tidbit regarding the character clause:

I ask: The character clause is obviously vague -- do you think the Hall of Fame should clarify the clause to offer guidance to voters?

“I don’t think it needs to be clarified,” Idelson says. “We want voters to have the leeway to define character as they see fit and to value however they like those traits like character, integrity and sportsmanship.”

But then Idelson says something a little bit unexpected: “Everyone should understand that ‘character’ is not to be used as a moral compass, but refers to how they respected the game, how they treated the game, how they used that character in the contributions they made to their teams.”

[Limey]

But then Idelson says something a little bit unexpected: “Everyone should understand that ‘character’ is not to be used as a moral compass, but refers to how they respected the game, how they treated the game, how they used that character in the contributions they made to their teams.”[/i]

So, does risking long term health effects, mood swings and testicle-shrinkage in order to help the team win count as "character"?

[Noe]

So, does risking long term health effects, mood swings and testicle-shrinkage in order to help the team win count as "character"?

"YES!!!" - Roger Clemens

[astrosfan76]

Nate Silver has an interesting blog up that takes a look at how the candidates fared among writers who voted for Bonds and those who did not vote for Bonds.  He provides a chart breaking down all of them, with some players faring better among the voters who did not vote for Bonds (esp. guys like Mattingly and Morris) and others faring worse.  Not surprisingly, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, and Palmeiro did not receive any votes from writers who did not also vote for Bonds.  I think Clemens and Bonds eventually get in, but they'll continue to be polarizing.  The biggest problem, in the meantime, is for Bagwell and Piazza.  Among voters who voted for Bonds, they both received votes from 82% of the writers.  Among those who didn't vote for Bonds, Piazza received votes from 46% and Bagwell, 54%.  That Bagwell is having trouble getting votes from those who suspect steroids is not news, it's been happening for a few years now.  Granted, this is not a complete view of the issue, but it does paint a picture of how close he could be and how away he far he is at the same time.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/suspicion-of-steroid-use-could-keep-bagwell-and-piazza-out-of-hall/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Duman]

Another Silver blog on how the crowded list next year might impact voting.

[Gizzmonic]

So, does risking long term health effects, mood swings and testicle-shrinkage in order to help the team win count as "character"?

Well, when you put it that way, sticking a needle in your butt sounds downright altruistic!