Author Topic: Astros sign Chris Snyder  (Read 14508 times)

subnuclear

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Astros sign Chris Snyder
« on: January 20, 2012, 11:49:41 am »
To 1 year contract with mutual option according to Footer and McTaggart twitters.


GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 12:45:09 pm »
To 1 year contract with mutual option according to Footer and McTaggart twitters.



Wonder what this means with regard to Castro's health/future as the Catcher of the Future.  Looks like a solid, low-risk pickup.  Anybody know what he's like behind the dish?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 12:52:40 pm »
Footer thinks/tweets- if healthy, an upgrade over Q.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 12:54:39 pm »
Wonder what this means with regard to Castro's health/future as the Catcher of the Future.

Footer sez Castro will not be ready for opening day.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 01:15:02 pm »
...Castro's...future as the Catcher of the Future. 

With a new GM there's a good possibility the view of Castro's future has changed.
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Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 01:22:02 pm »
Is he sound? I thought he has a bad back.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 01:24:44 pm »
With a new GM there's a good possibility the view of Castro's future has changed.

That applies to just about every young player on this roster, no? 
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 01:33:06 pm »
That applies to just about every young player on this roster, no? 

And everyone in the minors, too.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 01:47:20 pm »
so is this a case of back to the futures?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 01:49:29 pm »
Anybody know what he's like behind the dish?

Well, he's big.  He's like 6' 5", 250.  He's like a tight end back there.  Defensively, he's solid, if not spectactular.  He's got an average arm.  Not as good as Q's, but a significant upgrade from Towles.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 01:52:38 pm »
Is he sound? I thought he has a bad back.

Lower back surgery last year, IIRC.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 01:57:01 pm »
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 02:28:19 pm »
Oh yeah, he's the guy who had back surgery and couldn't help his wife fight off an attacker.
Wow. What a crazy situation. I've had a bad back, but never surgery, so I can't even imagine what that must have felt like, to be sitting there while some road-raged loon "kicks and scratches" at your wife.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 02:30:02 pm »
With a new GM there's a good possibility the view of Castro's future has changed.
Looking at his splits, I'm thinking it's more of a bad sign for Q. Snyder absolutely kills LHP. Maybe he'd platoon with Castro, if they're both healthy at some point this year?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 03:05:26 pm »
Looking at his splits, I'm thinking it's more of a bad sign for Q. Snyder absolutely kills LHP. Maybe he'd platoon with Castro, if they're both healthy at some point this year?

I agree that it is probably Q who should worry.  Luhnow seems to lean more to offensive production over defense.  Witness Lowrie and Cust.

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Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 03:14:37 pm »
After his back heals, maybe Chris will get a chance to look the motherfucker up.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 03:35:35 pm »
With a new GM there's a good possibility the view of Castro's future has changed.
Unfortunately, I think you are right.  Between injury problems and the new regime's previously noted focus on offense, Castro may be facing some uncertainty at this point.  Of course, Q has never been known for his bat either, so juneberno.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 04:07:22 pm »
I agree that it is probably Q who should worry.  Luhnow seems to lean more to offensive production over defense.  Witness Lowrie and Cust.
Hopefully he's smart enough to realize that there's only so many statues you can put out on the field at once before everything goes completely to shit. That said, sounds like Snyder isn't bad with the glove, assuming the injury isn't still affecting him.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 04:09:45 pm »
Unfortunately, I think you are right.  Between injury problems and the new regime's previously noted focus on offense, Castro may be facing some uncertainty at this point.  Of course, Q has never been known for his bat either, so juneberno.

I see it more as a validation that, given the chance, they won't get back on the same road that gave us Towles and Corporan if someone else better is available. If one of them has to go when Castro's safely healthy, then at least there's a chance that player would be of some value. It could just as easily be that Castro will need some real AAA time too.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 04:46:16 pm »
Well, he's big.  He's like 6' 5", 250.  He's like a tight end back there.  Defensively, he's solid, if not spectactular.  He's got an average arm.  Not as good as Q's, but a significant upgrade from Towles.

And he was a Cougar.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 04:50:52 pm »
Good move a offense catcher.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 05:56:57 pm »
Good move a offense catcher.

Well, let's not get carried away.  He's hit his weight once in his career, and that was as a part timer.  He strikes out a ton.  He's got some pop though.  If he gets 200 at bats, expect him to be at around .220/.350/.400 with 10 HRs.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 01:40:29 am »
... assuming the injury isn't still affecting him.
Huge assumption for a catcher who's throwing shoulder was completely destroyed and surgically rebuilt.  Fielding percentage says nothing about keeping baserunners honest.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 01:41:54 am »
Good move a offense catcher.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 12:10:46 pm »
Huge assumption for a catcher who's throwing shoulder was completely destroyed and surgically rebuilt. 
When did that happen? I thought it was his back.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 01:26:13 pm »
I agree that it is probably Q who should worry.  Luhnow seems to lean more to offensive production over defense.  Witness Lowrie and Cust.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2012, 01:26:20 pm »
When did that happen? I thought it was his back.
My bad.  Wrong Chris.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2012, 01:29:20 pm »
Huge assumption for a catcher who's throwing shoulder was completely destroyed and surgically rebuilt.  Fielding percentage says nothing about keeping baserunners honest.

"Keeping baserunners honest?  Que es esto "baserunners honest"? - Moneyball

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2012, 01:30:46 pm »
"Keeping baserunners honest?  Que es esto "baserunners honest"? - Moneyball
And as already noted, I had my "facts" wrong anyway. :(
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2012, 01:31:19 pm »
Welcome to the American League!

Funny thing.  Heard Daniels on the radio this morning regarding the Darvish signing.  Said how the Rangers were getting away from the mash model, looking at pitching and defense with an emphasis on athletes.  Couple that with Crane saying how he wanted to emulate the Rangers.  Something doesn't mesh.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2012, 01:33:10 pm »
Funny thing.  Heard Daniels on the radio this morning regarding the Darvish signing.  Said how the Rangers were getting away from the mash model, looking at pitching and defense with an emphasis on athletes.  Couple that with Crane saying how he wanted to emulate the Rangers.  Something doesn't mesh.

Ahum... welcome to Moneyball marries American League?

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2012, 01:39:07 pm »
Funny thing.  Heard Daniels on the radio this morning regarding the Darvish signing.  Said how the Rangers were getting away from the mash model, looking at pitching and defense with an emphasis on athletes.  Couple that with Crane saying how he wanted to emulate the Rangers.  Something doesn't mesh.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2012, 01:39:49 pm »
Funny thing.  Heard Daniels on the radio this morning regarding the Darvish signing.  Said how the Rangers were getting away from the mash model, looking at pitching and defense with an emphasis on athletes.  Couple that with Crane saying how he wanted to emulate the Rangers.  Something doesn't mesh.

The thing that meshes is that almost any catcher who has played in the MLB is better option than Towles, Coproran, etc. Not sure there was a defensive whiz on the market or not, but I won't miss our non-Q catchers from last year.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2012, 01:40:40 pm »
And as already noted, I had my "facts" wrong anyway. :(

More like, just like the Boston Red Sox deciding they don't need a catcher to throw out runners, they just need a pitcher to throw to first base 1,000 times to keep the guy from taking third on a single to right and right center.  If a team still employs the steal as an offensive weapon, then the Moneyballl crowd goes crazy.

Baseball player to Billy Beane "You pay me to steal bases"
Beane to baseball player "I pay you to get on first, not get thrown out at second."

So okay, here is what I sorta understand then... even if a guy could steal second, it's not a good play in baseball (according the Moneyball) because the percentages are low.  So if you're not going to steal bases, why would you need a catcher who can throw.  And if you don't have a catcher who can throw, why don't you then... wait for it... steal bases?

And around and around we go!

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2012, 01:44:41 pm »
Ahum... welcome to Moneyball marries American League?

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2012, 01:47:25 pm »
Baseball player to Billy Beane "You pay me to steal bases"
Beane to baseball player "I pay you to get on first, not get thrown out at second."

I didn't think he was dissing stealing bases per se, just pointing out that the guy who thought he was a base stealer wasn't actually good enough at it to make it worthwhile.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2012, 03:40:19 pm »
Didn't Beane actually decide at some point 6-8 years ago that "great defense" was the new OBP, ie. an asset undervalued by the rest of the marketplace? Hence his love affair with guys like Mark Ellis, Eric Chavez, Coco Crisp, Rajai Davis, etc.... I know as well that the Red Sox and other teams have put a lot of effort into developing their spiffy new-age "defensive metrics" and spending on players who they see as amazing defenders- Adrian Beltre, Mike Cameron, Carl Crawford, etc.

I know a lot of the wacky new defensive stats out there are kinda pretentious ("UZR-whatever"...), and a lot of them seem like they may be going around their ass to get to their elbow- yes, we know Carl Crawford is a great outfielder, just watch him!- but my basic point is, I don't think we should dismissively assume that, because Luhnow is a "Moneyball Guy", he therefore doesn't care about defense. After all, it's not as though Jack Cust has been anointed the Opening Day RF'er.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2012, 05:13:16 pm »
You're right in that there is not a lot to base it on, but the initial moves lean in that direction. I haven't seen enough of Lowrie, but his defense was described as marginal.  Cust is a man without a defensive position and the possibility that Q's defense might not be enough to keep him.  Admittedly, the Q observation could be all wrong. 

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2012, 05:47:24 pm »
Didn't Beane actually decide at some point 6-8 years ago that "great defense" was the new OBP, ie. an asset undervalued by the rest of the marketplace? Hence his love affair with guys like Mark Ellis, Eric Chavez, Coco Crisp, Rajai Davis, etc.... I know as well that the Red Sox and other teams have put a lot of effort into developing their spiffy new-age "defensive metrics" and spending on players who they see as amazing defenders- Adrian Beltre, Mike Cameron, Carl Crawford, etc.

I know a lot of the wacky new defensive stats out there are kinda pretentious ("UZR-whatever"...), and a lot of them seem like they may be going around their ass to get to their elbow- yes, we know Carl Crawford is a great outfielder, just watch him!- but my basic point is, I don't think we should dismissively assume that, because Luhnow is a "Moneyball Guy", he therefore doesn't care about defense. After all, it's not as though Jack Cust has been anointed the Opening Day RF'er.

Actually, that was Theo Epstein in Boston if I remember correctly. Meant he got rid of Nomah for better defense and also got Coco Crisp who was responsible for the greatest stolen base in Red Sawk history in the ACLS against the Yankees.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2012, 05:50:10 pm »
I didn't think he was dissing stealing bases per se, just pointing out that the guy who thought he was a base stealer wasn't actually good enough at it to make it worthwhile.

My bad. I stand corrected. I thought that he was being warned by the sabr-advisor that stealing a base was a low margin of success for any one.

Here is an interview with Bill James:

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/26/140813409/the-man-behind-the-moneyball-sabermetrics

an excerpt:

Quote
CONAN: There's a film - there's a moment where - as you also may know, I did work a little bit in, sort of, around the edges of baseball, nothing like what you did. But the - they did hate you, Bill.

(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)

CONAN: I never felt that they hated me as much. Well, that's a good storyline, but I survived it if they did.

Well, you were challenging the way people were thinking. In the film, it's presented as an argument over are walks as good as hits.

JAMES: The - yeah. The key to scoring runs in baseball is getting people on base. And for a long time, people wanted to deemphasize that and argue that you can score just as many runs by stealing bases and hitting in the clutch and those sort of things. Well, stealing bases adds some runs but very few, and you lose most of the runs that you gain by having runners caught stealing. And hitting in a clutch is unpredictable and unreliable.

The way you really score more runs is by getting more people on base. And it took 30 years after myself and other people started writing that until there was a general agreement that it was true.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 05:56:11 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2012, 06:02:44 pm »
...  Cust is a man without a defensive position ... 
[/understatement]

Actually, Cust does have a defensive position ... DH ... and his defense is so bad he sucks there.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2012, 08:42:20 pm »
Actually, that was Theo Epstein in Boston if I remember correctly. Meant he got rid of Nomah for better defense and also got Coco Crisp who was responsible for the greatest stolen base in Red Sawk history in the ACLS against the Yankees.
Well yeah, Epstein got him in Boston first (although it was Dave Roberts who had the famous stolen base), and then Beane signed him in Oakland, and just re-signed him for another year or two.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2012, 08:47:07 pm »
Noe - it was DAve Roberts who stole that base, not Crisp.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2012, 12:13:10 am »
Noe - it was DAve Roberts who stole that base, not Crisp.

Thanks. The stolen base part was the most important part of the post any way.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2012, 02:11:55 pm »
Footer tweeting that Angel Sanchez was DFA to make room for Snyder.  I'm not surprised.  I was trying to look at roster options for AA, AAA & MLB and had way too many infielders.  Sanchez was one of the ones I could not find room for on my hypothetical.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2012, 04:03:30 pm »
Footer tweeting that Angel Sanchez was DFA to make room for Snyder.  I'm not surprised.  I was trying to look at roster options for AA, AAA & MLB and had way too many infielders.  Sanchez was one of the ones I could not find room for on my hypothetical.
Saw Levine or someone speculating that this is good news for Rule 5/trade pickup Marwin Gonzalez, whom I'd completely forgotten about, or NRI Brian Bixler.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2012, 03:31:48 am »
Saw Levine or someone speculating that this is good news for Rule 5/trade pickup Marwin Gonzalez, whom I'd completely forgotten about, or NRI Brian Bixler.
I agree.  I had Marwin penciled in as a "keeper" ... probably just wishful thinking.  I am sure, though that he will get a good long look in ST, and if he does fail, there are still other options besides Sanchez.  Bixler (whom I expect to be at AAA) is only one of them.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2012, 01:21:04 pm »
The Astros signed Zach Duke to a minor league contract.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2012, 01:26:16 pm »
The Astros signed Zach Duke to a minor league contract.

I like him. Good cheap pickup. Did anyone see that Heavy D got suspended for 50 games for drugs. Given that he hasn't been in the big leagues since 2008, he was probably glad just to read his name.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2012, 01:27:37 pm »
He used to be my favorite player.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2012, 01:31:51 pm »
He used to be my favorite player.

He launched one of your best threads.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2012, 01:33:08 pm »
He launched one of your best threads.

??

Don't remember that? Kip Wells of course, and my first post was on Biggio to catcher, but don't remember DW?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2012, 01:35:45 pm »
??

Don't remember that? Kip Wells of course, and my first post was on Biggio to catcher, but don't remember DW?

Ah, shit.  I was confusing Kip Wells and Zach Duke.  My bad.

ETA:  And now I realize you weren't even talking about Duke.  There's nothing to see here.  Move along.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2012, 01:36:42 pm »
Just to clarify, I don't give a shit about Zach Duke.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2012, 01:38:51 pm »
Ah, shit.  I was confusing Kip Wells and Zach Duke.  My bad.

You have to wonder what would make a seemingly clear-headed poster confuse a guy named Zach with a guy named Kip.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2012, 01:48:03 pm »
You have to wonder what would make a seemingly clear-headed poster confuse a guy named Zach with a guy named Kip.

I still blame too many pierogies. 
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2012, 01:49:56 pm »
Just to clarify, I don't give a shit about Zach Duke.

He says you're not on his radar screen either.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2012, 01:53:00 pm »
He says you're not on his radar screen either.

I care deeply about both of them.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2012, 01:59:21 pm »
I care deeply about both of them.

as you do about all of God's Creatures
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2012, 02:41:03 pm »
as you do about all of God's Creatures

Thus my ignorance of the Mets.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2012, 04:09:53 pm »
I like him. Good cheap pickup.

Zach Duke = JA Happ. No?

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2012, 04:45:19 pm »
Zach Duke = JA Happ. No?

Now you're just trying to goad Mr. Happy.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2012, 04:51:16 pm »
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2012, 09:53:11 am »
Zach Duke = JA Happ. No?

Actually, no. Duke has far better control and keeps the ball in the yard a little better. I'm not pushing him as the second coming or anything.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2012, 09:53:54 am »
Now you're just trying to goad Mr. Happy.

Goad away. Remember, I'm Happy.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2012, 09:55:46 am »
Actually, no. Duke has far better control and keeps the ball in the yard a little better. I'm not pushing him as the second coming or anything.

Third coming.  Tebow's the second.
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Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2012, 02:16:41 pm »
Why did Duke miss so much time last year? Arm problems?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2012, 03:24:51 pm »
Actually, no. Duke has far better control and keeps the ball in the yard a little better. I'm not pushing him as the second coming or anything.

Duke doesn't come over the top like Happ, but has less stuff than Happ. So there is your trade off, one is living at the bottom of the strikezone and will not challenge people because he can't. The other has better stuff, can challenge folks when he's on and has the makings of a guy who can become much more than a control pitcher.

Looks like a lefty who is crafty and knows he has to be and a lefty who is able to go after hitters and if he's on, he's tougher to beat than the crafty lefty types. One is promise and the other is WYSWYG.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 03:47:52 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2012, 03:37:38 pm »
Duke doesn't come over the top like Happ, but has less stuff than Happ. So there is your trade off, one is living at the bottom of the strikezone and will not challenge people because he can't. The other has better stuff, can challenge folks when he's on and has the makings of a guy who can become much more than a control pitcher.

Looks like a left who is crafty and knows he has to be and a lefty who is able to go after hitters and if he's on, he's tougher to beat than the crafty lefty types. One is promise and the other is WYSWYG.

I think that you overstate Happ's ability to pitch the way that he's been doing it. In my opinion, he lives at the top of the strike zone with neither the cheese nor the equalizer to do so. And he nibbles way too much, forcing himself into bad count situations repeatedly-8.34 ERA last season when behind in the count. It'll be interesting to see if there is an attempt to reinvent him as a low ball pitcher. There, and only there, I think he has promise. In my opinion, he doesn't have a plus arm, and his offspeed stuff just doesn't do that much.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2012, 03:41:23 pm »
I think that you overstate Happ's ability to pitch the way that he's been doing it. In my opinion, he lives at the top of the strike zone with neither the cheese nor the equalizer to do so. And he nibbles way too much, forcing himself into bad count situations repeatedly-8.34 ERA last season when behind in the count. It'll be interesting to see if there is an attempt to reinvent him as a low ball pitcher. There, and only there, I think he has promise. In my opinion, he doesn't have a plus arm, and his offspeed stuff just doesn't do that much.


gosh, i had no idea you felt that way.

perseverate much?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2012, 03:47:04 pm »
I think that you overstate Happ's ability to pitch the way that he's been doing it. In my opinion, he lives at the top of the strike zone with neither the cheese nor the equalizer to do so. And he nibbles way too much, forcing himself into bad count situations repeatedly-8.34 ERA last season when behind in the count. It'll be interesting to see if there is an attempt to reinvent him as a low ball pitcher. There, and only there, I think he has promise. In my opinion, he doesn't have a plus arm, and his offspeed stuff just doesn't do that much.

He does have the stuff, that he has not put it together (or perhaps never will) is not a product of bad pitcher but good pitcher that can't get it together. There is a difference and you being an advocate of scouting is strange to me that you continue to ignore that it's not the stuff per se... it's the kid. An over the top lefty who could work upstairs if he knew how to setup hitters correctly is a outstanding arm in the making. Maybe they'll give up on Happ, and maybe they should... but I wouldn't rate Duke higher right now. I'd say they are the same until one proves over the other they are better. If both do, then nice going by the Astros.

Happ reminds me of Deshaises and Duke more of a Knepper type. Both were good, both were different in styles, but both could pitch in this league.  Pitching upstairs in Minute Maid (IMHO) isn't a bad thing.  It can work for a pitcher if he knows how to setup a hitter well.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2012, 03:55:38 pm »
He does have the stuff, that he has not put it together (or perhaps never will) is not a product of bad pitcher but good pitcher that can't get it together. There is a difference and you being an advocate of scouting is strange to me that you continue to ignore that it's not the stuff per se... it's the kid. An over the top lefty who could work upstairs if he knew how to setup hitters correctly is a outstanding arm in the making. Maybe they'll give up on Happ, and maybe they should... but I wouldn't rate Duke higher right now. I'd say they are the same until one proves over the other they are better. If both do, then nice going by the Astros.

Happ reminds me of Deshaises and Duke more of a Knepper type. Both were good, both were different in styles, but both could pitch in this league.  Pitching upstairs in Minute Maid (IMHO) isn't a bad thing.  It can work for a pitcher if he knows how to setup a hitter well.

We're not far apart on this. I agree with you that Happ's got the stuff to pitch in the big leagues, just, in my opinion, not for the long run the way he's been going about it. And I agree that you may have a kid who can't get it together--but he is a Northwestern guy, so he's smart. I'm pulling for him. And I wouldn't rank Duke above Happ talent-wise. No one would, in my opinion. I agree for the most part with your Deshaies-Happ and the Knepper-Duke analogies, although Knepper drove me nuts with his on season followed by a bad season repeatedly.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2012, 04:00:53 pm »
I think that you overstate Happ's ability to pitch the way that he's been doing it. In my opinion, he lives at the top of the strike zone with neither the cheese nor the equalizer to do so. And he nibbles way too much, forcing himself into bad count situations repeatedly-8.34 ERA last season when behind in the count. It'll be interesting to see if there is an attempt to reinvent him as a low ball pitcher. There, and only there, I think he has promise. In my opinion, he doesn't have a plus arm, and his offspeed stuff just doesn't do that much.

Can you think of many pitchers whose success has been up in the zone, who have later became a low-ball pitcher?


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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2012, 04:21:36 pm »
Can you think of many pitchers whose success has been up in the zone, who have later became a low-ball pitcher?



Steve Carlton was up in the zone and then he refined his slider and he became dominant. You had to guess whether the fastball was going to stay up or the slider was going to disappear down and away. He didn't necessarily change his approach, he just refined his slider and it started off like his four seamer and then broke so quickly, it made him untouchable.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2012, 04:28:10 pm »
Can you think of many pitchers whose success has been up in the zone, who have later became a low-ball pitcher?

So we're waiting for his balls to drop?
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2012, 04:38:05 pm »
Thanks.  I was thinking changing the approach with his fastball.  I do think your description of Carlton would be the roadmap for Happ: have success with breaking pitches down, or breaking pitches anywhere for that matter, rather than changing the approach with his fastball.  That being said, his breaking stuff needs a lot of work to even become useful, much less dominant like Carlton's.  

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2012, 04:40:41 pm »
Can you think of many pitchers whose success has been up in the zone, who have later became a low-ball pitcher?



Actually, a bunch. Just last year, Charlie Morton of the Pirates had a decent year after having totally transforming himself into a lowball pitcher because he got crushed up in the zone the previous season. What makes you successful at one level may not be enough at a higher level or after awhile at a higher level. Most professional and college pitchers are high strikeout pitchers in high school or even in college or the low minors but become command pitchers in the big leagues. Pitchers have to adapt too. Happ has a little bit of deception. I think that the league caught up to him, and it is his turn to adapt. If I was his pitching coach, I'd make two alternative recommendations: (1) tighten his offspeed stuff and command of his fastball a lot if he wants to stay up in the zone or (2) start working down in the strike zone. It'll be interesting to see what he does. I think that the Astros (at least the prior regime) made it clear to him that he must make some changes to stay in the big leagues. As I said earlier, I'm really pulling for him. We need pitching, and portsider starters are at a premium.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2012, 04:51:05 pm »
What did you guys see from Happ that was different when he came back up and pitched so well at the end of the year? Simply more aggressive, with better command, or had his approach changed some as well? I'll hang up and listen, thanks.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2012, 04:58:35 pm »
Just me, but I saw a more determined pitcher out there-a trip to the minor league did him good. I didn't think that he was that good after the ASB, but he was significantly better than the suckitude he graced us with in the first half. His walks and long balls were still a problem, but his BAA improved significantly after the ASB, particularly in August and September.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2012, 05:14:00 pm »
I'd say confidence, which is linked with aggressiveness.  His fastball command was still lacking, and his secondary stuff was still pretty much ineffective.  His approach has always been to get outs with his fastball up.  

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2012, 06:32:26 pm »

gosh, i had no idea you felt that way.

perseverate much?

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2012, 06:50:58 pm »
Just me, but I saw a more determined pitcher out there-a trip to the minor league did him good. I didn't think that he was that good after the ASB, but he was significantly better than the suckitude he graced us with in the first half. His walks and long balls were still a problem, but his BAA improved significantly after the ASB, particularly in August and September.
Yeah, it was in August that he went to AAA. After coming back Aug. 26, he had a 2.43 ERA in 37 IP, with 22 H, 20 BB, 34 K. Obviously the walks were still a problem, but it did seem to my untrained eye like he was more aggressive, overall. Hopefully it carries over to this season, because damn, he is frustrating to watch when he is nibbling and falling behind every single batter.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2012, 07:10:07 pm »
He admitted that he was having trouble giving an effort early in the season, team being bad and all. Giving him a refresher that he wasn't guaranteed a roster spot woke him up. Hopefully, he continues to remain uncomfortable.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2012, 07:14:41 pm »
Yeah, it was in August that he went to AAA. After coming back Aug. 26, he had a 2.43 ERA in 37 IP, with 22 H, 20 BB, 34 K. Obviously the walks were still a problem, but it did seem to my untrained eye like he was more aggressive, overall. Hopefully it carries over to this season, because damn, he is frustrating to watch when he is nibbling and falling behind every single batter.

While he was better after he came back up, he has to prove himself every day to stay up there. I hope that he got that message.
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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2012, 08:50:36 pm »
Did anyone see that Heavy D got suspended for 50 games for drugs. Given that he hasn't been in the big leagues since 2008, he was probably glad just to read his name.

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Re: Astros sign Chris Snyder
« Reply #88 on: January 31, 2012, 09:26:40 pm »
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Oh, Daryle.  That's just indigestion. 
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