Ryan Braun cheater?

[Jacksonian]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7338271/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-tests-positive-performance-enhancing-drug

[Ron Brand]

I guess that explains the dick on his face.

[Reuben]

Would this be the first time an MVP has officially tested positive, let alone a reigning one?

[remy]

I hate that fucking guy. Guilty or not. Even more so if guilty.

[HudsonHawk]

Would this be the first time an MVP has officially tested positive, let alone a reigning one?

Rodriguez, Giambi, Tejada.

[roadrunner]

This is great news

[Houston]

Braun. The quicker shooter-upper.

[Reuben]

Rodriguez, Giambi, Tejada.

I don't think any of them "officially" tested positive. Their positive tests from the 2003 "anonymous" testing were leaked by people involved w/ the BALCO case or whatever, correct? Braun would be the first MVP to officially fail (and be suspended).

[HudsonHawk]

I don't think any of them "officially" tested positive. Their positive tests from the 2003 "anonymous" testing were leaked by people involved w/ the BALCO case or whatever, correct? Braun would be the first MVP to officially fail (and be suspended).

Both ARod and Giambi tested positive and admitted it.  Why doesn't that count?  Or did you mean only MVP to get suspended?

[Reuben]

Both ARod and Giambi tested positive and admitted it.  Why doesn't that count?  Or did you mean only MVP to get suspended?

No, you're right, it counts, I didn't mean to drag anyone into a semantic debate. Just an insignificant distinction I was curious about.

[Fredia]

hard to imagine such a woeful dicklike jerk soul would sink to taking something to obtain a goal. so now when any player has a breakout beyond belief season should testing be automatic
wonder if this will force him down  a peg or two

[Outlawscotty]

What strings do you think will be pulled?  Selig loses Fielder and now possibly Braun.  I bet he is exonerated, and is the first in history to successfully dispute his positive test. 

[austro]

What strings do you think will be pulled?  Selig loses Fielder and now possibly Braun.  I bet he is exonerated, and is the first in history to successfully dispute his positive test. 

Bud will engineer a trade to the Astros (Braun for, say, Martinez, Altuve, and Wandy) so that he can then suspend him for a year.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm surprised he got caught. Bud Selig being such an unprincipled morally bankrupt meddler surely must have fallen asleep at the wheel and somehow missed his chance to intervene and protect his $100 million dollar boy.

[MusicMan]

I'm surprised he got caught. Bud Selig being such an unprincipled morally bankrupt meddler surely must have fallen asleep at the wheel and somehow missed his chance to intervene and protect his $100 million dollar boy.

David Stern called "blatantly rig your league" first this week.

[moriartp]

Bud will engineer a trade to the Astros (Braun for, say, Martinez, Altuve, and Wandy) so that he can then suspend him for a year.

I'd pull the trigger on that.

[Reuben]

I'd pull the trigger on that.

Doesn't he have a massive contract running 'til 2020?

[Gizzmonic]

I heard Braun's camp is claiming the banned substance is a "non-performance enhancing" drug.  Could it be the reefer, then?

[homer]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135405518.html

ESPN reported that Braun tested positive for a PED that gave him an abnormally high testosterone level, which proved to be synthetic and therefore not produced by the body.

But my source -- and again, this is from Braun's end and not MLB -- familiar with the test's findings says the "prohibited substance" was not a performance-enhancing drug or steroid of any kind. And the source says there has "never" been a result like this in the history of the MLB testing program.

[Mr. Happy]

Crucify the bastard.

[JimR]

Crucify the bastard.

too much caffeine today or not enough?

[Mr. Happy]

too much caffeine today or not enough?

Not enough. I'd just enjoy seeing peen up on a cross.

[Bench]

Not enough. I'd just enjoy seeing peen up on a cross.

Anti-semite. 

[Fredia]

would the cross be made of bats ?

[Ron Brand]

Every time I see this topic headline all I think about is Divine wearing a cheater in Pink Flamingos, and that now there is a Ryan Braun model.

[MarkArmsBestFriendsArm]

Me too, Jimmer.

[OregonStrosFan]

Via SI: LINK

Ryan Braun's positive test for testosterone showed a level that was extremely elevated, and likely the highest that has been recorded in Major League Baseball, according to sources with knowledge of the NL MVP's test.

As an aside, I have a general disdain for the 'guilty until proven innocent' standard that is now applied to baseball players when it comes to the subject of PEDs/banned substances.  That said, because this situation may potentially cause Bud Selig even an iota of grief (hopefully a lot more) I am inclined to put my personal ethics aside and get behind the "Ryan Braun, cheater" movement...  FYB!!!

[Mr. Happy]

Anti-semite. 

Is Braun Jewish? If so, that would be news to me and also irrelevant. Fuck off, Mr. PC.

[austro]

Is Braun Jewish? If so, that would be news to me and also irrelevant. Fuck off, Mr. PC.

I think your sarc meter malfunctioned.

[Reuben]

Alright, who pissed in Mr. Happy's Cheerios this morning??

[austro]

Alright, who pissed in Mr. Happy's Cheerios this morning??

Ryan Braun.

[Fredia]

maybe that is the true secret of his success

[Bench]

Is Braun Jewish? If so, that would be news to me and also irrelevant. Fuck off, Mr. PC.

Hey, you're the one throwing him up on a cross. 

And it's Captain PC.  Don't demote me.

[Mr. Happy]

Hey, you're the one throwing him up on a cross. 

And it's Captain PC.  Don't demote me.

I pride myself as being Colonel non P.C. Fuck all of that crap. I calls 'em likes I sees 'em. If you don't like it, fuck you.

[JimR]

I pride myself as being Colonel non P.C. Fuck all of that crap. I calls 'em likes I sees 'em. If you don't like it, fuck you.

calm down, Ray Charles.

[OregonStrosFan]

Dear Santa:

All I want for Christmas is a new sarc meter for my friend Mr. Happy.  

Sincerely,

-Lee

[Mr. Happy]

Dear Santa:

All I want for Christmas is a new sarc meter for my friend Mr. Happy.  

Sincerely,

-Lee

Thanks, OSF! Mine is beyond repair.

[Jose Cruz III]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135405518.html

ESPN reported that Braun tested positive for a PED that gave him an abnormally high testosterone level, which proved to be synthetic and therefore not produced by the body.

But my source -- and again, this is from Braun's end and not MLB -- familiar with the test's findings says the "prohibited substance" was not a performance-enhancing drug or steroid of any kind. And the source says there has "never" been a result like this in the history of the MLB testing program.

Well then that rules out him trying to get pregnant.

[Mr. Happy]

Peen trying to blame it on his doctors. Hmmm.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111219&content_id=26195328&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

[Limey]

Peen trying to blame it on his doctors. Hmmm.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111219&content_id=26195328&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

So, we can now commence wild-arsed speculation as to what private medical issue he could have that would get treated with hormones and such.  The worst case of ED since Kathy Bates went nude in a movie?  A scorching case of herpes?  An ever growing collection of baseballs signed by Derek Jeter (NTTAWWT)?

[Mr. Happy]

So, we can now commence wild-arsed speculation as to what private medical issue he could have that would get treated with hormones and such.  The worst case of ED since Kathy Bates went nude in a movie?  A scorching case of herpes?  An ever growing collection of baseballs signed by Derek Jeter (NTTAWWT)?

Absotively posilutely, Kingfish!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

So, we can now commence wild-arsed speculation as to what private medical issue he could have that would get treated with hormones and such.  The worst case of ED since Kathy Bates went nude in a movie?  A scorching case of herpes?  An ever growing collection of baseballs signed by Derek Jeter (NTTAWWT)?

It's private, man.

[jwmann2]

It was some type of antibiotics he took for an illness. He never took any type of steroids. This has already hit the news.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It was some type of antibiotics he took for an illness. He never took any type of steroids. This has already hit the news.

I wasn't aware that antibiotics could raise testosterone levels.

[HudsonHawk]

It was some type of antibiotics he took for an illness. He never took any type of steroids. This has already hit the news.

Which antibiotics are banned?

[Limey]

It was some type of antibiotics he took for an illness. He never took any type of steroids. This has already hit the news.

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

No matter how convincingly Ryan Braun's representatives argue his case after a reported positive drug test, the Milwaukee Brewers' star leftfielder faces tremendously long odds in his attempt to avoid a 50-game suspension in 2012.  A Major League Baseball source confirmed Sunday that no player has successfully overturned a positive test since the current drug program began in 2004.
...

Creative Artists Agency, which represents Braun, said the positive test involved "highly unusual circumstances" that would demonstrate there was no "intentional violation."  Intent does not absolve a player from a positive test, however.

You see, most people here cite their references, so that the strength, or weakness, of their assertion can be evaluated.  Blathering that you heard on the news that it was some form of antibiotics, won't get much play.

[hostros7]

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:


You see, most people here cite their references, so that the strength, or weakness, of their assertion can be evaluated.  Blathering that you heard on the news that it was some form of antibiotics, won't get much play.

yeah, but, as the best player in the WNBA circa 2002, JWMann2 is a source her himself.

www.contactmusic.com/images/reviews/juwannamann.jpg
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTYzNjE0NDQ0N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNjU1MDY3._V1._SY317_.jpg

[Fredia]

maybe it was buds special coctail just for his fave player...how can something so right be so wrong

[Limey]

maybe it was buds special coctail just for his fave player...how can something so right be so wrong

Is anyone else disturbed by the notion of "Bud's Special Cocktail"?

[Ty in Tampa]

Is anyone else disturbed by the notion of "Bud's Special Cocktail"?

A Miller Lite with a bratwurst swizzle stick.

[Guinness]

Is anyone else disturbed by the notion of "Bud's Special Cocktail"?

All of humanity would find this disturbing

[jester9450]

hit him with a 50 games.

[moriartp]

Braun wins appeal, will not be suspended. MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

[austro]

Braun wins appeal, will not be suspended. MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

Oh, great, now Bud's really going to want to beat on somebody.

[MusicMan]

Braun wins appeal, will not be suspended. MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

LINK

I hold no special love for Braun, but I feel bad for him here.  MLB broke confidentiality and leaked the story, and then basically follows up the decision by saying "Bullshit, he's still a cheater."

[JackAstro]

Braun wins appeal, will not be suspended. MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

"I am absolutely stunned by this outcome."

– People who have never heard of Bud Selig

[Bench]

Does Shyam Das do all of baseball's arbitrations?  From salary to grievances?

[Bench]

MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

What an incredibly obnoxious and pointless statement. 

[MusicMan]

What an incredibly obnoxious and pointless statement. 

So just about right for Selig.

[MusicMan]

Also, they STRENUOUSLY object.

[Ron Brand]

Golly. What team does he play for again? I wonder who owns that team and if they have some kind of 'in' anywhere.

[Bench]

Also, they STRENUOUSLY object.

"I strenuously object?"  Is that how it works?

So just about right for Selig.

Where have you gone, Bart Giamatti?  A nation turns its lonely eyes to you....

[Bench]

Braun wins appeal, will not be suspended. MLB "vehemently disagrees" with the decision.

The word on the twitter is that the urine sample lacked a proper chain of custody because the collector took the sample home and stored it in his fridge overnight rather than fed-exing it to the testing facility immediately.

And in other news, I'm glad no one in my family works in an industry where there might be a jar of piss in the fridge when I reach for my morning orange juice.  

[remy]

FRB, FYB.

[HudsonHawk]

The word on the twitter is that the urine sample lacked a proper chain of custody because the collector took the sample home and stored it in his fridge overnight rather than fed-exing it to the testing facility immediately.

I don't twitter, and I'd rather not think about who stores a jar of piss in their icebox, but this, in and if itself, does not break the chain of custody.

[Bench]

I don't twitter, and I'd rather not think about who stores a jar of piss in their icebox, but this, in and if itself, does not break the chain of custody.

It does if an improper icebox storage affects the sample's testability.  I don't think they're saying the guy accidentally swapped out a jar of pickle juice for the piss.

[mrpink]

It does if an improper icebox storage affects the sample's testability.  I don't think they're saying the guy accidentally swapped out a jar of pickle juice for the piss.

That still doesn't break the chain of custody; as long as it's in his fridge it's in his "custody".  Now, had he put the bottle of piss in his freezer instead...

That's gross but still not a CoC issue.

[HudsonHawk]

It does if an improper icebox storage affects the sample's testability.  I don't think they're saying the guy accidentally swapped out a jar of pickle juice for the piss.

No it doesn't.  Improper sample holding technique may invalidate the sample results, but it doesn't break the chain of custody.  The Tweeters may be confused.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

If the normal testing process is to occasionally take positive samples home for the weekend and store in a refrigerator, which would also require no one else having access to the contents in the refrigerator--then I guess the lab sample custodian did nothing wrong. If that is not the normal procedure or even an approved alternative, then taking the sample home for the weekend (instead of sending it out via Fed-Ex, or storing the sample on premises in an approved limited-access storage container), in effect, breaks the chain of custody.

[HudsonHawk]

If the normal testing process is to occasionally take positive samples home for the weekend and store in a refrigerator, which would also require no one else having access to the contents in the refrigerator--then I guess the lab sample custodian did nothing wrong. If that is not the normal procedure or even an approved alternative, then taking the sample home for the weekend (instead of sending it out via Fed-Ex, or storing the sample on premises in an approved limited-access storage container), in effect, breaks the chain of custody.

No, it doesn't break the chain of custody.  But to answer your questions...it is "normal" procedure to immediately ship the samples.  If that's not possible, however, it's acceptable to store them in an approved, secure location.  That's what this sampler did.  It was not possible to get the sample to the lab on a Saturday night.  The sample wasn't stored in his beer fridge during a Super Bowl party.  It was stored in an approved, secure location, which was not unusual.  Chain of custody encompasses many things, including the bottles in which the sample was collected.  But not shipping them the same day is not itself a chain of custody problem.

[Bench]

I was hoping for a ripping discussion on the different ways people define chain of custody.  Wish granted!

Wiki:  Chain of custody is also used in most chemical sampling situations to maintain the integrity of the sample by providing documentation of the control, transfer, and analysis of samples.

Chain of custody is not mere physical possession, but proper handling of testing samples.

For instance, I doubt he took his fridge's temperature the night he had Ryan's urine over.

[HudsonHawk]

I was hoping for a ripping discussion on the different ways people define chain of custody.  Wish granted!

Wiki:  Chain of custody is also used in most chemical sampling situations to maintain the integrity of the sample by providing documentation of the control, transfer, and analysis of samples.

Chain of custody is not mere physical possession, but proper handling of testing samples.

For instance, I doubt he took his fridge's temperature the night he had Ryan's urine over.

And that still doesn't break chain of custody.  Chain of custody is about the collection, handling and tranfer of the sample, but not to validate the analyses (there's a separate procedure for that).  It's to document the sample's source is what you claim it is.

[Bench]

And that still doesn't break chain of custody. 

Uncontrolled conditions = risk of contamination or tampering, therein breaking the chain.

[HudsonHawk]

Uncontrolled conditions = risk of contamination or tampering, therein breaking the chain.

There were not uncontrolled conditions in this case.  The sample was maintained by someone authorized and trained to handle the sample.  Cross contamination is not a chain of custody issue.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The tech didn't follow procedure, and thus broke the chain of custody. That is why Braun got off. I believe, chain of custody implies more than possession, if the documentation is incorrect or it the sample is relocated to an unsecured or unapproved location, the chain of custody has been compromised. And cross contamination could be a result of a compromised chain of custody.

[BUWebguy]

Apparently this argument (exactly what is chain of custody, and what is proper chain of custody) is at the heart of this argument:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/138857174.html

Das ruled in Braun's favor because of a chain-of-custody dispute that occurred after his urine sample was taken during an early October drug test.

People familiar with the details said the sample was not dropped off that day at FedEx to be sent to the MLB testing lab in Montreal because the collector thought it was too late and the shipping company was closed.

Instead, the collector kept the sample, and perhaps others, refrigerated at home for two days before making the shipment. Though the seals on the samples were unbroken upon arriving at the lab, that lapse in protocol became the crux of the hearing in which Braun's side contested the validity of the test itself.

The MLB drug policy states that "absent unusual circumstances, the specimens should be sent by FedEx to the laboratory on the same day they are collected."

The policy goes on to say, "If the specimen is not immediately prepared for shipment, the collector shall ensure that it is appropriately safeguarded during temporary storage. The collector must keep the chain of custody intact. The collector must store the samples in a cool and secure location."

MLB officials argued that despite the delay in shipping, the collector did keep the chain of custody intact and store the samples in the proper environment. Das thought there was room for error in the process, however, and ruled accordingly.

[Ebby Calvin]

Apparently this argument (exactly what is chain of custody, and what is proper chain of custody) is at the heart of this argument:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/138857174.html

So THAT's where das has been.

[HudsonHawk]

The tech didn't follow procedure, and thus broke the chain of custody.

That is simply incorrect.  On several levels.  First, the tech apparently *did* follow acceptable procedures.  Secondly, the tech not following procedures does not necessarily break the chain of custody.  He may have.  But there's no indication from the reports we've seen that chain of custody was broken.   

I believe, chain of custody implies more than possession, if the documentation is incorrect or it the sample is relocated to an unsecured or unapproved location, the chain of custody has been compromised. And cross contamination could be a result of a compromised chain of custody.

Chain of custody is entirely about possession.  More to the point, it's about verifying and documenting the source of the sample.  Cross contamination can occur independent of whether or not the samples' custody can be documented.  And at any rate, that does not apply in this case.

[Bench]

Chain of custody is entirely about possession.  More to the point, it's about verifying and documenting the source of the sample.  Cross contamination can occur independent of whether or not the samples' custody can be documented.  And at any rate, that does not apply in this case.

Obviously it's possible to define chain of custody both broadly and narrowly.  You are choosing a narrow definition, but chain of custody in sampling doesn't refer only to the urine itself, but the conditions in which it is handled.  Nobody cares that Braun pees, only what that pee can tell us. 

That is simply incorrect.  On several levels.  First, the tech apparently *did* follow acceptable procedures.  Secondly, the tech not following procedures does not necessarily break the chain of custody.  He may have.  But there's no indication from the reports we've seen that chain of custody was broken.   

So, much like Selig, you too vehemently disagree with the decision.

[HudsonHawk]

Obviously it's possible to define chain of custody both broadly and narrowly.

Chain of custody isn't open for interpretation.  It's a fairly strictly defined term, pretty much defined by ASTM.

  You are choosing a narrow definition, but chain of custody in sampling doesn't refer only to the urine itself, but the conditions in which it is handled.  Nobody cares that Braun pees, only what that pee can tell us. 

And chain of custody only documents that it's Ryan Braun's pee, not what the pee can tell you. 

So, much like Selig, you too vehemently disagree with the decision.

Not really.  I'm simply stating that the sampler not shipping them the same day doesn't in and of itself break the chain of custody.

[jbm]

The technicalities of the COC issue aside, basing the ruling on COC is BS.  Braun's argument was that the results were so out of line, the test must have been screwed up.  His argument wasn't about COC.  It appears that they were looking to exonerate him, and found a convenient vehicle. 

[Bench]

The EPA's chain of custody protocol addresses procedures to guard against contamination and assure the quality of the sample.   

[Waldo]

Annnnnnd around and around and around and around and around...

[HudsonHawk]

The EPA's chain of custody protocol addresses procedures to guard against contamination and assure the quality of the sample.    

Yeah...by keeping the samples secure and ensuring the samples custody can be documented and verified.  I'm intimitely familiar with EPA protocol.  I've dealt with it nearly every day for the last 22 years.

[HudsonHawk]

The technicalities of the COC issue aside, basing the ruling on COC is BS.  Braun's argument was that the results were so out of line, the test must have been screwed up.  His argument wasn't about COC.  It appears that they were looking to exonerate him, and found a convenient vehicle. 

I read this and immediately thought BS too.  But then again, I don't know the exact levels reported, nor was I at the appeal hearing.

[Bench]

Annnnnnd around and around and around and around and around...

We need an arbitrator of semantics. 

[HudsonHawk]

We need an arbitrator of semantics. 

Or lots and lots of booze. 

[MusicMan]

We need an arbitrator of semantics. 

Thought we had one already.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

FedEx does pick up on weekend if scheduled. I can not get my mind around how it is acceptable for a drug testing lab employee to take tested samples home from the lab. Perhaps that is normal, but I wouldn't want my sample treated so cavalierly.

[HudsonHawk]

FedEx does pick up on weekend if scheduled. I can not get my mind around how it is acceptable for a drug testing lab employee to take tested samples home from the lab. Perhaps that is normal, but I wouldn't want my sample treated so cavalierly.

It was not an employee of the lab, it was a certified sample collector with the World Anti-Doping Agency.  He's trained and certified to collect and handle the samples, pending delivery to the lab.  And he didn't take it from the lab.  He collected the sample from Braun, and was delivering it TO the lab.  This is the way it's done.  And your sample wasn't treated cavalierly.  That's the point of chain of custody.

[EasTexAstro]

FedEx does pick up on weekend if scheduled. I can not get my mind around how it is acceptable for a drug testing lab employee to take tested samples home from the lab. Perhaps that is normal, but I wouldn't want my sample treated so cavalierly.

I was wondering why they took samples knowing they could not ship them immediately and no preassigned storage method that met their requirements.

The only sampling I do is FAR less critical, but I still have everything I need taken care of including the sample bottles, COC forms, labels, storage and transportation container, and the transportation is lined up before I ever start.

[MusicMan]

Whether or not their was a COC break is beside the point to me.

MLB has a set procedure for testing, with confidentiality, that they agreed to with MLBPA.
MLB has a procedure for appeals, agreed to with the MLBPA.
When each of them didn't suit their needs, they tossed them out the window.

[EasTexAstro]

..and, I agree with HH. Chain of custody is part of the handling procedures, not the other way around. The CoC seems to be fine, but the handling procedures might have been compromised. Unless he handed the samples to someone else to store for him without signing them off to a qualified handler, they were still in his possession and under his control.

[Noe]

Also, they STRENUOUSLY object.

Great, now you got the jury thinking we're afraid of Ryan Braun!

[HudsonHawk]

I was wondering why they took samples knowing they could not ship them immediately and no preassigned storage method that met their requirements. 

I was wondering the same thing.  Why take the sample on a Saturday night?

[Noe]

I was wondering the same thing.  Why take the sample on a Saturday night?

Because Bud scheduled the playoff game on that night to highlight his favorite team?

[Bench]

..and, I agree with HH. Chain of custody is part of the handling procedures, not the other way around. The CoC seems to be fine, but the handling procedures might have been compromised. Unless he handed the samples to someone else to store for him without signing them off to a qualified handler, they were still in his possession and under his control.

According to Lester Munson, Braun's position is that it wasn't his urine.  The guy apparently had a few samples from players and left them sitting out on his desk (not the fridge) from Saturday till Monday, and there was some doubt as to whose urine actually tested positive.  Braun even offered to do a DNA test to show that it wasn't his urine, but MLB refused (classic).  

I was wondering the same thing.  Why take the sample on a Saturday night?

Apparently the collector does this as a moonlighting gig, and fits in the sampling when he can which is why it was on a Saturday in the first place.  

[HudsonHawk]

According to Lester Munson, Braun's position is that it wasn't his urine.  The guy apparently had a few samples from players and left them sitting out on his desk (not the fridge) from Saturday till Monday, and there was some doubt as to whose urine actually tested positive.  Braun even offered to do a DNA test to show that it wasn't his urine, but MLB refused

Well this is the scenario that chain of custody is designed to prevent. At the end of the day though, the sample changed hands, and if the judge or arbitor isn't convinced that the sample is of what the lab says it is, then it's worthless.

One thin's for sure...Roger Clemens needs to hire Braun's lawyer.

[Bench]

Well this is the scenario that chain of custody is designed to prevent. At the end of the day though, the sample changed hands, and if the judge or arbitor isn't convinced that the sample is of what the lab says it is, then it's worthless.

The details are still pretty hazy, but if it's not a reliable sample, it's not a reliable sample.  It's a shame for Braun that it was leaked in the first place. 

[austro]

It's a shame for Braun that it was leaked in the first place. 

Definitely. If Bud wants to improve something, he should work on improving discipline in his offices.

[EasTexAstro]

Definitely. If Bud wants to improve something, he should work on improving discipline in his offices.

I hear Pam is into discipline.

[MusicMan]

I hear Pam is into discipline.

GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

[austro]

I hear Pam is into discipline.

The offspring from that coupling might be the homeliest humans ever produced.

[Ron Brand]

All I know is this is damn sure suspicious enough to keep Penis Nose out of the Hall for a good long while.

[pots]

Braun even offered to do a DNA test to show that it wasn't his urine, but MLB refused (classic).  

If Braun is so adamanent that he is innocent, i'm pretty sure he makes enough money to get this test done himself.  The DNA test supposedly would be a direct refute of the positive test and most people would be done with this.  Cops usually avoid giving a person a blood test that fail the breathalizer, not shocking the MLB didn't perform the DNA test for him. 

[Bench]

If Braun is so adamanent that he is innocent, i'm pretty sure he makes enough money to get this test done himself.  The DNA test supposedly would be a direct refute of the positive test and most people would be done with this.  Cops usually avoid giving a person a blood test that fail the breathalizer, not shocking the MLB didn't perform the DNA test for him.  

I think the issue was that MLB wouldn't release the urine sample for DNA testing.  I would assume either way Braun would be responsible for the costs of the testing - I'm sure MLB wasn't paying his attorneys' fees for him.

[pots]

I think the issue was that MLB wouldn't release the urine sample for DNA testing.  I would assume either way Braun would be responsible for the costs of the testing - I'm sure MLB wasn't paying his attorneys' fees for him.

Are you trying to say that if Ryan Braun gets the DNA testing done that he is contractually restricted from announcing the results?

[Bench]

Are you trying to say that if Ryan Braun gets the DNA testing done that he is contractually restricted from announcing the results?

No.  I'm saying that based on what Munson was saying, MLB would not agree to release the offending urine sample for DNA testing.  If Braun can't get his hands on the sample, then how can he compare the DNA from the sample to his DNA?

ETA:  But also, Braun probably would be prohibited from announcing the results as the arbitration process is supposed to be confidential, but I'm sure we would have found out eventually.

[pots]

I thought DNA testing was a completely separate test that better showed whether a player has taken steroids versus a urine test.  My bad.

[austro]

No.  I'm saying that based on what Munson was saying, MLB would not agree to release the offending urine sample for DNA testing.  If Braun can't get his hands on the sample, then how can he compare the DNA from the sample to his DNA?

The MLB clowns probably can't release it because they can't find it.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm sure MLB wasn't paying his attorneys' fees for him.

The players' union was.

[HudsonHawk]

The MLB clowns probably can't release it because they can't find it.

In the US, labs are required to hold samples for so many days after their analyses.  I'm not sure what, if any, post analytical holding is required in Montreal or by the WADA.

[Houston]

Now MLB is in the position of appealing the case against one of its biggest stars who (currently) has been found not guilty and has come out swinging in his own defense. If Selig isn't careful, he's going to be facing a defamation of character lawsuit.

To the lawyers here, what's the likelihood of that happening simply by MLB's appeal?

[jbm]

Who does MLB appeal to?  I thought the three-person panel was the final ruling. 

The more I heard about it this weekend, the more I think he is guilty. 

[Houston]

Who does MLB appeal to?  I thought the three-person panel was the final ruling. 

The more I heard about it this weekend, the more I think he is guilty. 

I was wrong about a formal appeal, but clearly MLB isn't happy with this decision, Braun's press conference, or the future of drug testing. MLB is saying that Braun only won on a technicality.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Ryan-Braun/ryan-braun-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

[Houston]

Who does MLB appeal to?  I thought the three-person panel was the final ruling. 

The more I heard about it this weekend, the more I think he is guilty. 

On appeal, I was able to find an article stating my original contention:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/2/24/2821501/ryan-braun-appeal-overturned-suspension-bud-seliglenge-ryan-braun-decision/in/2391077

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das' decision overturned, but that they did not expect a decision to be made until after Das issues his written report within the next week or so and MLB lawyers have a chance to review it. There are very limited grounds by which either party could sue, but sources said MLB officials believe Das' ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy."

[Bench]

On appeal, I was able to find an article stating my original contention:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/2/24/2821501/ryan-braun-appeal-overturned-suspension-bud-seliglenge-ryan-braun-decision/in/2391077

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das' decision overturned, but that they did not expect a decision to be made until after Das issues his written report within the next week or so and MLB lawyers have a chance to review it. There are very limited grounds by which either party could sue, but sources said MLB officials believe Das' ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy."

It's very difficult to vacate a binding arbitration decision. The very limited grounds are pretty much (1) the arbitrator is corrupt/partial to one side; (2) the arbitrator refused to hear significant evidence or postpone the hearing so that evidence could be heard; or the arbitrator exceeded his authority under the arbitration agreement. 

Even if they are complaining that the ruling "was based on a faulty reading of the policy" they will have an uphill battle.  Generally arbitrator's have the power to interpret contractual provisions, policies, etc..., and even if they're wrong it still can't be overturned.     

[Gizzmonic]

According to Lester Munson, Braun's position is that it wasn't his urine.  The guy apparently had a few samples from players and left them sitting out on his desk (not the fridge) from Saturday till Monday, and there was some doubt as to whose urine actually tested positive.  Braun even offered to do a DNA test to show that it wasn't his urine, but MLB refused (classic).  

Apparently the collector does this as a moonlighting gig, and fits in the sampling when he can which is why it was on a Saturday in the first place.  

They hired a moonlighter?  But what about MLB's official urine collector, the Houston Astros?

[Limey]

They hired a moonlighter?  But what about MLB's official urine collector, the Houston Astros?

Point of order:  the Astros are not the MLB's official piss pot.  They are MLB's official cum dumpster.

[MusicMan]

Point of order:  the Astros are not the MLB's official piss pot.  They are MLB's official cum dumpster.

Houston Bukkakkes.

[Bench]

Houston Bukkakkes.

The mascot will be disgusting. 

[Jacksonian]

The mascot will be disgusting. 

Awesome

[MusicMan]

The mascot will be disgusting. 

No more so than the team's play.

[Reuben]

Who does MLB appeal to?  I thought the three-person panel was the final ruling. 

The more I heard about it this weekend, the more I think he is guilty. 

I agree, unless the sample collector was somehow corrupt/out to get Braun, it seems very likely that he did indeed, get off on a technicality. The crazy-high testosterone amount registered it turns out is not all that crazy.

The question I then have is how a guy like Braun could be so stupid as to let himself get caught? Manny is one thing; Braun actually seems like a fairly smart guy.

[Texifornia]

I think it is pure coincidence that the first player to "beat" a positive drug test is the first superstar on the "Commissioner's Own" Milwaukee Brewers in decades.

Pure coincidence.

[Mr. Happy]

This article pisses me off.

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2012/02/for_ryan_braun_the_truth_hurts.html

[Ron Brand]

Punk-ass Boston press at its usual.

[Trey]

I agree, unless the sample collector was somehow corrupt/out to get Braun, it seems very likely that he did indeed, get off on a technicality. The crazy-high testosterone amount registered it turns out is not all that crazy.

The question I then have is how a guy like Braun could be so stupid as to let himself get caught? Manny is one thing; Braun actually seems like a fairly smart guy.

Another conjecture take on what happened: http://deadspin.com/5888592/how-the-doping-case-against-ryan-braun-fell-apart-one-theory

[moriartp]

Another conjecture take on what happened: http://deadspin.com/5888592/how-the-doping-case-against-ryan-braun-fell-apart-one-theory

Emphasis on 'conjecture.'

[das]

So THAT's where das has been.

Ha.  Been a busy winter at work.  That, coupled with my disgust with the Astros impending move to the AL and the new owners absolute acquiescence to FBS has had me nonplussed about talking Astros.  I thought spring training would draw me back but, in reality, what is drawing me back is my friends here.

[JaneDoe]

Ha.  Been a busy winter at work.  That, coupled with my disgust with the Astros impending move to the AL and the new owners absolute acquiescence to FBS has had me nonplussed about talking Astros.  I thought spring training would draw me back but, in reality, what is drawing me back is my friends here.

A sentiment shared by many, I believe.

[JimR]

A sentiment shared by many, I believe.

i totally agree. no matter where the Astros end up with me, i will never leave here.

[Mr. Happy]

i totally agree. no matter where the Astros end up with me, i will never leave here.

+1

[VirtualBob]

Not only that, but I find that this forum is one of the strongest things keeping me active as an Astros fan.  I really sort of tried to become a Rangers fan for a while last fall, but I couldn't do it.  The best Rangers forum I could find made AC look interesting and well-informed.  So I guess I am stuck with the ALastros.

[subnuclear]

Not only that, but I find that this forum is one of the strongest things keeping me active as an Astros fan.  I really sort of tried to become a Rangers fan for a while last fall, but I couldn't do it.  The best Rangers forum I could find made AC look interesting and well-informed.  So I guess I am stuck with the ALastros.

I've been reading a Nationals forum. They're some knowledgeable people (and some Astros refugees), but there are a lot of long threads of the 'What sort of contract should we offer Bryce Harper in 2017?' variety and OPS arguments why Jayson Werth should hit second. They could use some popes.

[Ron Brand]

I've been reading a Nationals forum. They're some knowledgeable people (and some Astros refugees), but there are a lot of long threads of the 'What sort of contract should we offer Bryce Harper in 2017?' variety and OPS arguments why Jayson Werth should hit second. They could use some popes.

Get in there and mix it up. Show them what you've learned, and start that whole Harper-for-a-proven-Wandy thing rolling.

[subnuclear]

Get in there and mix it up. Show them what you've learned, and start that whole Harper-for-a-proven-Wandy thing rolling.

I think they are a playoff team with Jason Bourgeois, so giving up Anthony Rendon, who is blocked by Zimmerman anyway, makes sense, right? 

[Ron Brand]

I think they are a playoff team with Jason Bourgeois, so giving up Anthony Rendon, who is blocked by Zimmerman anyway, makes sense, right? 

There you go. Boojwah for Rendon and cash.

[MusicMan]

I think they are a playoff team with Jason Bourgeois, so giving up Anthony Rendon, who is blocked by Zimmerman anyway, makes sense, right? 

Funny you should mention Bourgeois and the Nats

PS - the Nats will be my NL team next year.  Love what they're doing.

[subnuclear]

Funny you should mention Bourgeois and the Nats

PS - the Nats will be my NL team next year.  Love what they're doing.

I hadn't seen that. More power for my "argument".

[jester9450]

i totally agree. no matter where the Astros end up with me, i will never leave here.

Houston forever.

[OregonStrosFan]

Shyam Das, unemployed...

[Limey]

Shyam Das, unemployed...

Example #eleventy-billion as to why arbitration is bullshit: arbiters cannot be impartial if they expect ever to get asked back.

[Bench]

Example #eleventy-billion as to why arbitration is bullshit: arbiters cannot be impartial if they expect ever to get asked back.

At least this is between two fairly even parties with equal power to decide the procedural parameters. 

Think of all the consumer cases that get referred to arbitration because your credit card agreement was unilaterally updated and you continued to use the card or somewhere tucked away in page 56 of your cellphone terms and conditions there's an arbitration clause.   The individual consumers aren't the arbitrator's repeat customers, but the big companies certainly are and if they want to stay on AAA's magic list, they better not piss off the repeat customers too much.   

[Limey]

At least this is between two fairly even parties with equal power to decide the procedural parameters. 

Think of all the consumer cases that get referred to arbitration because your credit card agreement was unilaterally updated and you continued to use the card or somewhere tucked away in page 56 of your cellphone terms and conditions there's an arbitration clause.   The individual consumers aren't the arbitrator's repeat customers, but the big companies certainly are and if they want to stay on AAA's magic list, they better not piss off the repeat customers too much.   

MNILAIATM.

[BizidyDizidy]

Example #eleventy-billion as to why arbitration is bullshit: arbiters cannot be impartial if they expect ever to get asked back.

I actually think this mechanism makes sense. They can't be partial if they expect to be asked back, since either side can unilaterally fire them at any time.

[Limey]

I actually think this mechanism makes sense. They can't be partial if they expect to be asked back, since either side can unilaterally fire them at any time.

Which is what happened here, which could well end up with a chair at baseball's arbitration table becoming like a chair at Dr. Evil's table.

[HudsonHawk]

Shyam Das, unemployed...

Das booted.

[OregonStrosFan]

Das booted.

WELL played, sir!

[Mr. Happy]

I actually think this mechanism makes sense. They can't be partial if they expect to be asked back, since either side can unilaterally fire them at any time.

+1

[Bench]

MNILAIATM.

My Nose Is Like An Iago's AT Milan?

[Limey]

My Nose Is Like An Iago's AT Milan?

Close

[JimR]

Das booted.

THAT was outstanding, HH!

[Mr. Happy]

Das booted.

This is really funny, HH! /golf clap/

[das]

Das booted.

Hey!

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Hey!

Wait, is your name a German language reference?