Author Topic: is Wade gone after this weekend?  (Read 16949 times)

Reuben

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is Wade gone after this weekend?
« on: November 27, 2011, 12:08:16 pm »
Crane made a reference to evaluating the FO fairly quickly, and one could understand the need to get new leadership in place as soon as possible so that they can move forward with the offseason. Perhaps Wade was allowed to enjoy this last holiday weekend before getting shitcanned?

In any case, will be interesting to see who represents the Astros at the GM meetings Dec. 5th. I can't imagine it's Wade.
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astrosfan76

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 01:14:51 pm »
Crane made a reference to evaluating the FO fairly quickly, and one could understand the need to get new leadership in place as soon as possible so that they can move forward with the offseason. Perhaps Wade was allowed to enjoy this last holiday weekend before getting shitcanned?

In any case, will be interesting to see who represents the Astros at the GM meetings Dec. 5th. I can't imagine it's Wade.

Justice has tweeted that they'll be meeting tomorrow. I imagine he'll be meeting with the others shortly after.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 06:54:43 pm »
Justice has tweeted that they'll be meeting tomorrow. I imagine he'll be meeting with the others shortly after.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 09:02:11 pm »
It would've been pretty surprising to see either one survive the ownership change.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 09:13:39 pm »
Put that chair over there...no, next to the wall. Those three can go...well, put them over by that stuff. I don't think we need any on the deck, let's move some of those others over here...
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 09:15:39 pm »
Quote
Hunsicker, currently the Rays’ senior vice president of baseball operations, was the Houston GM from 1996 through 2004. The club reached the postseason in five of his nine seasons, and sources say he would embrace a return to Houston. Friedman's enthusiasm for the Astros' job is less certain.

Please don't forget the coal in DoRay's stocking. Please.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2011, 10:02:00 pm »
Zierlein tweeted he thinks it will be Friedman.  Not sure how much that's worth...he seems to be more of a Texans reporter.

My guess is Thad Levine based on all of Crane's admiration of the Rangers org.

Ron Brand

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2011, 10:44:46 pm »
Reid Ryan.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 11:43:50 pm »
from Maury Brown
"Assistant General Manager Dave Gottfried will take over as interim GM of #Astros till new one hired. He'll be at helm for Winter Meetings"
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2011, 01:01:45 am »
Several sportswriters are wondering why the firing happened late on sunday night.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2011, 02:04:53 am »
Several sportswriters are wondering why the firing happened late on sunday night.

Rosenthal's scoop may have forced the issue.

We know the Chronicle's beat writers wouldn't force it, of course. Must be an easy gig for the Chron's guys, sitting at their desks waiting for their story lines to be faxed/emailed from the front office.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 06:59:14 am »
Several sportswriters are wondering why the firing happened late on sunday night.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/111127-astros-dismiss-ed-wade-and-tal-smith

Quote
"George Postolos called me just before I got on a flight from Honolulu to tell me that he regretted the media speculation, but did confirm that I am being dismissed," Smith said.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 08:06:48 am »
Thanks for the link about Smith.  I wonder if the Chron will even acknowledge his service to the franchise?

This seems pretty chickenshit, but I am predisposed to disliking Crane.  Give the guy his meeting as he has earned it.  Then let him go with some dignity.  Sunday night phone call.  What a prick.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 08:20:10 am »
Rosenthal's scoop may have forced the issue.

We know the Chronicle's beat writers wouldn't force it, of course. Must be an easy gig for the Chron's guys, sitting at their desks waiting for their story lines to be faxed/emailed from the front office.

Wait, they're reporting on the Astros again?  I thought there was a media blackout until Bud Selig announced their new membership in the Japan Pacific League.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 09:46:57 am »
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 09:51:46 am »
so who is next and any suggestions on the replacements
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 09:56:39 am »
I just read about a blog on Astroscounty from Olney where "a really smart baseball executive" told him the Astros climb back to respectability would take 4-7 years. I suppose it depends on what "respectability" means but that is a dire warning. However, I tend to believe to it based on Crane's Rangers model of rebuilding the farm system.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 10:13:51 am »
Olney just tweeted: Gerry Hunsicker would be an excellent part of the Astros' solution, either as VP of baseball operations or as GM.

Yes, Buster.  Yes he would.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 10:20:40 am »
Thanks for the link about Smith.  I wonder if the Chron will even acknowledge his service to the franchise?

This seems pretty chickenshit, but I am predisposed to disliking Crane.  Give the guy his meeting as he has earned it.  Then let him go with some dignity.

I'm not choosing sides but I find it hard to believe that Crane and Smith didn't have at least one face-to-face meeting in the last few months.

The Sunday night phone call is pretty lame, though.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 10:22:01 am »
The Sunday night phone call is pretty lame, though.

More lame than leaving him unprepared for a reporter ambush when he gets off the plane?
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2011, 10:22:13 am »
Fuck BP, and fuck 'em in the ear, but this morning's e-mail at least joins somewhat in the tilting against the windmills.

Quote
THE BP FIRST TAKE
When MLB's Winter Meetings begin next week in Dallas, there will likely be 29
general managers in attendance. The Astros, who are expected to dismiss Ed
Wade on Monday
(http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/houston-astros-front-office-major-changes
-general-manager-ed-wade-tal-smith-president-of-baseball-operations-jim-crane
-112711), won't be represented unless they hire his replacement within seven
days.

Save for the lead-up to the July 31st Trade Deadline, the Winter Meetings may
be the most important time for a team to have a GM and philosophy in place.
The Astros are in need of a complete overhaul, from the majors, to the
minors, to the front office, and next week's Meetings would have been an
excellent time to start the process.

Instead--with Wade gone, president Tal Smith retiring or being dismissed, and
manager Brad Mills waiting to learn his fate--the organization may be in more
turmoil than ever. The Astros are unlikely to be significant players in the
free agent market, but if they were, would any agent acting in good faith
tell his client to sign with a team whose direction is unclear? If another
team sees a possible trade fit with Houston and wants to discuss it at the
Meetings, who will decide whether the deal benefits the Astros?

By delaying and prolonging the confirmation process for new owner Jim Crane,
Bud Selig and the other 29 owners dealt Houston an unfair hand. When the Cubs
let Jim Hendry go, Tom Ricketts had plenty of time to bring in Theo Epstein
and Jed Hoyer. When Epstein left, John Henry and Larry Lucchino had time to
settle on promoting Ben Cherington. Crane and new president George Postolos
will not have that luxury, and they are taking over an organization much
farther from contention than either Boston or Chicago.

Crane and his partners now face an unenviable Catch-22. If they rush to fill
the GM vacancy before next week, they risk making a decision they will later
regret. Conversely, if they wait until after the Winter Meetings, they may
miss out on a valuable opportunity to begin turning the franchise around.

There is no question that the Astros--baseball's only sub-.400 team last
season--need a new direction. Firing Wade immediately and starting to clean
house was the right decision, and it would have happened weeks ago if Crane
had been confirmed sooner.

But now, in addition to being at the bottom of the standings, the Astros lag
behind the other 29 teams in preparedness for the offseason. And coming off
one of the worst years in the franchise's history, fans in Houston have every
right to be upset.
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Reuben

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 10:23:12 am »
Would Hunsicker have to explain in the interview what the hell happened in the early 2000's drafts?
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 10:28:37 am »
...fans in Houston have every right to be upset.

As if we were suppose to wait for confirmation on being upset? *sigh*

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 10:33:44 am »
Fuck BP, and fuck 'em in the ear, but this morning's e-mail at least joins somewhat in the tilting against the windmills.


I find it hard to believe Crane/Postolos have not been researching candidates throughout the holding period. 

And it still doesn't matter.  The Astros aren't going to do jack shit at the winter meetings except let the world know that Wandy Rodriguez is available, which the world already knows.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 10:40:46 am »
And it still doesn't matter.  The Astros aren't going to do jack shit at the winter meetings except let the world know that Wandy Rodriguez is available, which the world already knows.

Ding.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 10:41:58 am »
I find it hard to believe Crane/Postolos have not been researching candidates throughout the holding period. 

And it still doesn't matter.  The Astros aren't going to do jack shit at the winter meetings except let the world know that Wandy Rodriguez is available, which the world already knows.

I agree with this, but if they are going to gut scouting, that is certainly a good time to start reconstituting it.  

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 10:45:05 am »
Fuck BP, and fuck 'em in the ear, but this morning's e-mail at least joins somewhat in the tilting against the windmills.


As has been reported Gottfried will be there, and the direction has already been given.  Sell.  Wandy and Myers for sure.  Lee probably.  Wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to push Lyon as well.  Gottfried is there to help set the foundation for trades later in the off-season.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 10:48:52 am »
I agree with this, but if they are going to gut scouting, that is certainly a good time to start reconstituting it.  

I'm more concerned with them finding a new scouting team to get up and running on the 2012 draft.  Six months seems like a tight window to prepare for an MLB draft.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 10:53:14 am »
I'm more concerned with them finding a new scouting team to get up and running on the 2012 draft.  Six months seems like a tight window to prepare for an MLB draft.

It's unlikely that most folks below the GM will be removed right away.  It wouldn't surprise me if it were a slow transition over the next calendar year.  However, if any big changes do happen though, they'll happen right away.  Getting folks in place before the spring tournaments and college games is the key whether it's the same group as now or a new group.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 11:04:31 am »
I'm not choosing sides but I find it hard to believe that Crane and Smith didn't have at least one face-to-face meeting in the last few months.

The Sunday night phone call is pretty lame, though.

From the piece:

Quote
Smith said he wished he had had the chance to discuss his situation with new Astros owner Jim Crane, but he never got the opportunity.

"I wrote Jim Crane on June 8th, a four or five page letter asking for a meeting," Smith said. "He responded by e-mail that very day and he said 'I am currently on the road traveling until next week. I'll give you a call next week to set up a time for us to get together. Thanks for your letter.'

"I have yet to hear from him."
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 11:14:29 am »
From the piece:


Chip Bailey thinks Tal could've handled this better, and I agree with him.  This is a move everyone saw coming, and a 4 page letter wasn't going to change anything.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/11/28/smith-missed-a-classy-opportunity-to-take-the-high-road/


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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 11:15:18 am »
I want to believe the positive things I've heard about Crane, but so far, it's one clusterfuck after another.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 11:23:25 am »
Chip Bailey thinks Tal could've handled this better, and I agree with him.  This is a move everyone saw coming, and a 4 page letter wasn't going to change anything.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/11/28/smith-missed-a-classy-opportunity-to-take-the-high-road/



Stupid fucking article.  Sure, Tal could have handled it better, but so fucking what?  Crane should have handled much better.  He is the head honcho.  Just meet with the guy, listen to him, and let him know you are going in another direction. 

Not a big thing to me, just seems pretty petty and classless.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 11:23:58 am »
I want to believe the positive things I've heard about Crane, but so far, it's one clusterfuck after another.

Apparently the organization will be paying Wade for two more years. I don't know how much he makes but after Carlos' contract expires and they trade Wandy, Myers and Lyon Ed Wade might find himself the highest paid Astro.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2011, 11:31:52 am »
Some of you were so excited about a new owner.  Doesn't seem like so much now.

And why are you all getting so worked up over a article from the Chron??
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2011, 11:38:48 am »
Some of you were so excited about a new owner.  Doesn't seem like so much now.


Yeah, I wonder what happened between May and now that would make everyone so damn angry.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 11:40:23 am »
Some of you were so excited about a new owner.  Doesn't seem like so much now.

You know, it's funny. I was always acutely aware that the new owner, any new owner, could make us all long for the good, old days of Drayton McClane and his folksy brand of fraudulence. But I never for a moment imagined this.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 11:40:44 am »
I am having a hard time finding any faults in Jim Crane's actions.  This seems to be the timeline of his purchase.

- buys team for $680M
- leaks to press that George Postolos will be his President
- Stories about his past come to the surface, MLB expands on these in order to drag out the process of realignment
- Crane comes out and defends his past and expresses his frustration with Selig for dragging this out
- MLB basically tells him he can own his hometown team, but he has to move them to the AL.  This is a condition that will occur with any new owner of the Astros.
- Crane uses this information and leverages this to get a better deal, negotiating $70M off his purchase price
- Finally Crane is handed the team, he hints at the reduction of ticket prices and possibility of uniform changes.  He wants to build through the draft.
- Crane quickly fires Ed Wade and Tal Smith, both moves expected to happen months ago.  

So am I supposed to be mad that he didn't fire Tal Smith face-to-face when Postolos was announced right off the bat?  Because otherwise I can't find anything to be upset about that places blame on him.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2011, 11:42:04 am »
From Berman.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/111128-ed-wade-had-hoped-to-finish-what-he-had-started

"HOUSTON - The new owner of the Houston Astros Jim Crane and team president and CEO George Postolos informed Ed Wade that he would be relieved of his duties as general manager last week.

"I was actually informed Wednesday morning," Wade said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "It was an 8:30 meeting scheduled at Minute Maid (Park) that George has asked for and when I arrived at the meeting George and Jim were both there, and they made me aware they were going to make a change and I asked them when they planned to announce it and they said there weren't going to announce it until Monday and asked me to sit on it until then.



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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2011, 11:50:51 am »
Once he finishes hiring his upper level baseball personel, if he steps out fo the spotlight and lets them run the show, then he will be a fine owner.  Sure set guidelines with salary and approve large financial decisions.  But when it comes to the who, letting that be done by those that he hired. 


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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2011, 11:54:44 am »


Yeah, I wonder what happened between May and now that would make everyone so damn angry.

All I can remember thinking then and now is "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."  I'm thinking I posted it, I just haven't been able to find it. 

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2011, 12:40:40 pm »
- MLB basically tells him he can own his hometown team, but he has to move them to the AL.  This is a condition that will occur with any new owner of the Astros.

I realize this seems to be accepted as the truth, but we have no idea if it actually is.  For one, if it was an absolute condition, why the hell did they use that smokescreen about his character?  Really, why the fuck would that be needed?  Just come out and state it publically:  FYB saying "Any owner of the Astros will have to move the team."  That never happened. 

It is also notable that after purchase, MLB (or their press lackeys) is suddenly comfortable stating that it was a condition.  Seems like an awfully convenient way to provide cover for Crane.  All the background leads me to believe that it was far from certain that Crane had to agree to the move, but we will never know, cause the fucker folded without calling MLB. 

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2011, 01:04:58 pm »
I realize this seems to be accepted as the truth, but we have no idea if it actually is.  For one, if it was an absolute condition, why the hell did they use that smokescreen about his character?  Really, why the fuck would that be needed?  Just come out and state it publically:  FYB saying "Any owner of the Astros will have to move the team."  That never happened. 

It is also notable that after purchase, MLB (or their press lackeys) is suddenly comfortable stating that it was a condition.  Seems like an awfully convenient way to provide cover for Crane.  All the background leads me to believe that it was far from certain that Crane had to agree to the move, but we will never know, cause the fucker folded without calling MLB. 

Yeah, honestly and obviously I don't know.  But I am 99% certain if Crane walked away from this deal Drayton would move the team for Selig.

Then we could end up with an owner who wants to operate under a completely different model than Crane and we're still in the AL.  As far as I'm concerned, everything we've heard about Crane's operational goal is perfect.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2011, 01:08:00 pm »
From the piece:


Tal Smith comes off as remarkably whiny and self indulgent to me.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2011, 01:26:29 pm »
Olney just tweeted: Gerry Hunsicker would be an excellent part of the Astros' solution, either as VP of baseball operations or as GM.

Yes, Buster.  Yes he would.

Olney writes, "Andrew Friedman is from Houston, but he is not expected to be a candidate for the Houston job ...."

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2011, 01:31:39 pm »
Yeah, honestly and obviously I don't know.  But I am 99% certain if Crane walked away from this deal Drayton would move the team for Selig.

Then we could end up with an owner who wants to operate under a completely different model than Crane and we're still in the AL.  As far as I'm concerned, everything we've heard about Crane's operational goal is perfect.

I really didn't follow the Ranger's through the years Crane seems interested in emulating, so I'm not convinced they did what the Astros are doing.  I know that they never jettisoned Young, so it doesn't look exactly like what is going on here.  The total teardown strategy is risky.  You may be bad in the player acquisition and development, or have some bad luck and find yourself in a decade long dump where both the fans and players seem resigned to being complete losers.  

There is a middle ground between what Wade tried to do his first years and what is occuring now.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 01:56:02 pm »
Tal Smith comes off as remarkably whiny and self indulgent to me.

others strike me that way, as well.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2011, 02:35:57 pm »
I really didn't follow the Ranger's through the years Crane seems interested in emulating, so I'm not convinced they did what the Astros are doing.  I know that they never jettisoned Young, so it doesn't look exactly like what is going on here.  The total teardown strategy is risky.  You may be bad in the player acquisition and development, or have some bad luck and find yourself in a decade long dump where both the fans and players seem resigned to being complete losers.  

There is a middle ground between what Wade tried to do his first years and what is occuring now.

They didn't do a complete teardown, but they did build much of their core through the farm system.  The Teixeira trade alone netted them Feliz, Andrus, Matt Harrison, Salty, and Beau Jones.  They added other key players through smart deals (like Hamilton) and added the high-priced FA (Beltre) as the last piece to the puzzle.  It's a fairly simplistic view of how their roster came together, but building through the minors and splurging for the final pieces is a smart way to go, regardless of the club.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2011, 02:46:49 pm »
others strike me that way, as well.

Who?
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2011, 03:18:15 pm »
They didn't do a complete teardown, but they did build much of their core through the farm system.  The Teixeira trade alone netted them Feliz, Andrus, Matt Harrison, Salty, and Beau Jones.  They added other key players through smart deals (like Hamilton) and added the high-priced FA (Beltre) as the last piece to the puzzle.  It's a fairly simplistic view of how their roster came together, but building through the minors and splurging for the final pieces is a smart way to go, regardless of the club.

Young came to Texas in a minor league deal with Toronto 10-11 years ago.

2 - Free agent signings mostly
3 - a bit unsettled with several players playing there including Young and Moreland, who came up through the Texas system.
4 - Kinsler, a Texas minor league product
5 - Beltre, free agent
6 - Andrus in the Teixeira deal
7 - Hamiliton in the Volquez deal
8 - unsettled with a number of players there
9 - Cruz in the deal with Milwaukee that also got them Carlos Lee

1 - Wilson and Holland are Texas minor league products, Lewis was a Texas draftee that they let go and eventually went back, most of the rest were not products of Texas drafts.

The Oswalt, Berkman, Pence, and Bourn deals may have the Astros on their way to a Ranger looking way of acquiring the major league talent.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2011, 03:58:32 pm »
speaking of tx league i will come to dread the games between round rock and the astros almost aaa team
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2011, 07:29:45 pm »

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2011, 07:49:43 pm »
Well, no Hunsicker.  But Friedman is interviewing.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/11/28/astros-receive-permission-to-interview-rays-gm-friedman/
Maybe Hunsicker is interviewing for a higher position. Either way I would take Friedman in a heartbeat. But he may have to bump up payroll to get him.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2011, 07:55:11 pm »
Tags reporting that Mills is staying.

Quote
Postolos...did contact manager Brad Mills to address rumors his job status was in question. Mills is under contract through 2012 with a club option for 2013 and no change is imminent.

“There was some speculation out there [Sunday] night and I think that was all premature and not accurate,” Gottfried said. “George reached out to Millsie personally to make him aware.”
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2011, 09:51:49 pm »
Tags reporting that Mills is staying.


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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2011, 10:33:03 pm »
It sometime takes awhile to put together a winning system 7 out of 15 looks good to me he was building .

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2011, 06:20:44 am »
compensation to TB might be an issue- cold hard cash might be the thing Hou has that TB needs.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2011, 07:13:20 am »
“There was some speculation out there [Sunday] night and I think that was all premature and not accurate,” Gottfried said. “George reached out to Millsie personally to make him aware.”


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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2011, 07:55:40 am »
The national baseball media thinks there is a 1% chance that Friedman comes to Houston, which is par for the course for these types of things.  I mean, who would ever want to work in Houston?  Ever?  For the Astros?  No way.  
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:58:09 am by roadrunner »

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2011, 08:01:58 am »
The national baseball media thinks there is a 1% chance that Friedman comes to Houston, which is par for the course for these types of things.  I mean, who would ever want to work in Houston?  Ever?  For the Astros?  No way. 

Obviously because they will be involved with the rivalry with the Rangers and get to play against the Yankees and Red Sox.  What more of a reason would you need?
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2011, 08:18:44 am »
I wonder if Friedman is a really good GM, or just stepped into a perfect situation and is riding someone else's coattails.  In jackass' column, he said he started in 2008.  Most of the great drafts were prior to that time.  Looking at the drafts from 08 on, no player has yet reached the majors.  They still may be good, but there is no proof he knows what he is doing.  All in all, this could be another "careful what you wish for."  Besides, the jackass pile of crap thinks this would be an awesome hire.  That alone raises serious questions.  

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2011, 08:27:30 am »
Nevermind.  I can't read.  He started in 2005. 

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2011, 09:38:45 am »
wishful thinking
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2011, 10:34:53 am »
Nevermind.  I can't read.  He started in 2005. 

I still think it's a valid question. How do we know how good Friedman is? How much of the Ray's success is simply the accumulative effect of drafting at the top for many years?

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2011, 10:55:20 am »
I still think it's a valid question. How do we know how good Friedman is? How much of the Ray's success is simply the accumulative effect of drafting at the top for many years?

It's quite likely the Astros are on a similar roll as the Rays were in terms of draft order. Seems a natural to me.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2011, 11:08:02 am »
I still think it's a valid question. How do we know how good Friedman is? How much of the Ray's success is simply the accumulative effect of drafting at the top for many years?

Yes, I would still be concerned.  The more one looks at the 2008 TB draft, the uglier it looks.  Beckham with the #1, and a bunch of subsequent ones without much success at their respective levels.  None of the top five lloked even close to contributing.  The corresponding Wade/Heck draft is looking much better. 

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2011, 11:22:24 am »
Yes, I would still be concerned.  The more one looks at the 2008 TB draft, the uglier it looks.  Beckham with the #1, and a bunch of subsequent ones without much success at their respective levels.  None of the top five lloked even close to contributing.  The corresponding Wade/Heck draft is looking much better. 

I'm more impressed with organizations that continue to have good systems without ever hitting rock-bottom. The Phils and Braves come to mind. And the Rangers have definitely stock-piled talent...maybe the best in the business the past few years.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2011, 11:23:16 am »
Why would any team allow any of its staff under contract to interview with another organization for a position that represented a lateral move? (And I guess I'm being charitable calling it a lateral move in this case.)
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2011, 11:33:38 am »
(And I guess I'm being charitable calling it a lateral move in this case.)

Oh, c'mon chuck, don't be so cynical.  It's totally a lateral move.  The Rays have Longoria, Hellickson, Niemann, Price, Shields, Upton, Jennings, Fuld, etc.  The Astros have, um, well...shit.  Nevermind.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2011, 11:38:24 am »
Not all the Rays' top prospects came from their high picks. Moore was taken in the 8th, Jennings in the 10th, Hellickson in the 4th (though he was pre-Friedman). They've been pretty aggressive in going after top talent in the later rounds. That said, a couple of their recent drafts look pretty ugly. I don't know how much of the credit or blame should go to Friedman vs. his scouting director, but there's at least an aggressive mentality there. More to Friedman's credit is his trade history—he's done a good job acquiring talent to fit the club's needs while working with a tiny payroll. If he's got a good scouting director and an owner willing to pony up when necessary, he seems capable of building a very consistent winner.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2011, 11:48:48 am »
Why would any team allow any of its staff under contract to interview with another organization for a position that represented a lateral move? (And I guess I'm being charitable calling it a lateral move in this case.)

He's not under contract.  Rays execs operate without contracts.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2011, 11:48:52 am »
Why would any team allow any of its staff under contract to interview with another organization for a position that represented a lateral move? (And I guess I'm being charitable calling it a lateral move in this case.)

Is it really a lateral move?  Yeah, the Rays have a strong young nucleus and will be competitive in the near future.  But the Rays are still in the AL East and they're still playing in a shit stadium in front of 10k fans evey night.  How can you not second guess your future at a place if you're celebrating the most incredible comeback in MLB history on a game-winning homerun in front of 25k fans?  

Plus, there's the whole home town angle with an owner giving you complete control and unlimited resources.  I know it's cool to shit on the organization right now, but it is a great time to start building from the ground up here.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2011, 11:51:59 am »
lateral move has zero to do with players.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2011, 12:04:16 pm »
Some guys like to be architects. Some guys like to try their hand where there is a ceiling they can climb to.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2011, 01:41:02 pm »
Some guys like to be architects. Some guys like to try their hand where there is a ceiling they can climb to.

And, some guys just like to jerk off in a tube sock all day. 
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2011, 01:49:30 pm »
now thaddeus:

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/11/source-astros-receive-permissi.html



"The Rangers are also considering former Houston GM and farm director Tim Purpura for the Player Development role"

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2011, 01:52:36 pm »
"The Rangers are also considering former Houston GM and farm director Tim Purpura for the Player Development role"

Agent Purpura!
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2011, 02:05:14 pm »
And, some guys just like to jerk off in a tube sock all day. 

That is a waste of precious bodily fluids.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2011, 02:15:31 pm »
Not all the Rays' top prospects came from their high picks. Moore was taken in the 8th, Jennings in the 10th, Hellickson in the 4th (though he was pre-Friedman). They've been pretty aggressive in going after top talent in the later rounds. That said, a couple of their recent drafts look pretty ugly. I don't know how much of the credit or blame should go to Friedman vs. his scouting director, but there's at least an aggressive mentality there. More to Friedman's credit is his trade history—he's done a good job acquiring talent to fit the club's needs while working with a tiny payroll. If he's got a good scouting director and an owner willing to pony up when necessary, he seems capable of building a very consistent winner.

The difference in drafting philosophy in the AL is that you don't pass on a one-dimensional hitter when you have a top ten pick to get a really good catcher who may or may not hit in the majors.  You can always turn that one-dimensional hitter into, say, a Cliff Lee rental if you're making your way to the World Series too.

Things are going to change, some of it arguably for the better (depending on your own viewpoint as to what is "better").  It makes sense to think hitting first for the first three years or so and then build from that stable of talent into pitching and defense (via trades and free agency) later.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2011, 02:25:28 pm »
The difference in drafting philosophy in the AL is that you don't pass on a one-dimensional hitter when you have a top ten pick to get a really good catcher who may or may not hit in the majors.  You can always turn that one-dimensional hitter into, say, a Cliff Lee rental if you're making your way to the World Series too.

Things are going to change, some of it arguably for the better (depending on your own viewpoint as to what is "better").  It makes sense to think hitting first for the first three years or so and then build from that stable of talent into pitching and defense (via trades and free agency) later.

I know there have been a number of threads here that break down the roles within a NL lineup, 1-8.  My initial assumption is that the AL simply adds a 9th hitter, in place of the pitcher, and it's normally a slugger.  However, I cannot help but wonder (or hope) it's more nuanced than this.  Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge of how an AL lineup is constructed?

note: Please tell me it's not equivalent to stacking your Softball League lineup, where they frequently make every other homerun an automatic out.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2011, 02:31:54 pm »
I know there have been a number of threads here that break down the roles within a NL lineup, 1-8.  My initial assumption is that the AL simply adds a 9th hitter, in place of the pitcher, and it's normally a slugger.  However, I cannot help but wonder (or hope) it's more nuanced than this.  Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge of how an AL lineup is constructed?

note: Please tell me it's not equivalent to stacking your Softball League lineup, where they frequently make every other homerun an automatic out.

I know that when you have a hitting league, you generally make allowances for the best hitters to bat higher in the lineup.  You change the aspect of a cleanup hitter and a number five hitter a little bit than you would in the NL.  You don't necessarily need the rbi guys to bat in those two slots, you may need them further down the lineup.  By that, I mean you place more emphasis on better hitting/on-base prowess than you would slugging prowess in the traditional cleanup and number five spots.  Move your sluggers down a bit because the emphasis is more chances to drive in runners on base even if they strike out a bit more... you don't need to worry about that in your lineup as much because those guys who are sluggers are not as vital to offensive success than in the traditional lineup construction.  And if the sluggers fail, you don't have to worry about the bottom of the lineup failing you as much as you do with a pitcher batting.  The number 8 hitter is just that.... a hitter and not someone who alters their approach because they have a pitcher standing on-deck.

Noe

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2011, 02:38:20 pm »
BTW - another aspect about farm management in the AL as opposed to the NL.  Guys who have no appreciable skills in terms of defense but can hit will move up faster in the AL farm system than in the NL.  So, for instance, you may see a Telvin Nash get more opportunities now to move through the system because he can hit and still struggles playing first base.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2011, 02:41:24 pm »
I know there have been a number of threads here that break down the roles within a NL lineup, 1-8.  My initial assumption is that the AL simply adds a 9th hitter, in place of the pitcher, and it's normally a slugger.  However, I cannot help but wonder (or hope) it's more nuanced than this.  Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge of how an AL lineup is constructed?

note: Please tell me it's not equivalent to stacking your Softball League lineup, where they frequently make every other homerun an automatic out.

As a guess, I think you have to be able to put out a somewhat functional defense in the AL, so an NL "1-8" will be similar to an AL team's 8 position starters.  I think the difference comes when stocking the bench: the lack of pinch hitting and double-switching for pitchers means that you need a utility infielder and a utility outfielder to spot-start for injuries/resting of regulars, plus a handful of hitters (some of whom can field a position at a push).

Also, I imagine the bullpen is smaller by a reliever or two, because you can leave your starter in longer because he's only lifted when struggling, never for a pinch hitter.  Same with relievers.  That frees up a spot or two to PH for your light-hitting position players when absolutely necessary.

Basically, there's a lot of hitting/hitters, which cover up for any deficiencies you may have in other areas.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2011, 03:17:00 pm »
As a guess, I think you have to be able to put out a somewhat functional defense in the AL, so an NL "1-8" will be similar to an AL team's 8 position starters.  I think the difference comes when stocking the bench: the lack of pinch hitting and double-switching for pitchers means that you need a utility infielder and a utility outfielder to spot-start for injuries/resting of regulars, plus a handful of hitters (some of whom can field a position at a push).

Also, I imagine the bullpen is smaller by a reliever or two, because you can leave your starter in longer because he's only lifted when struggling, never for a pinch hitter.  Same with relievers.  That frees up a spot or two to PH for your light-hitting position players when absolutely necessary.

Basically, there's a lot of hitting/hitters, which cover up for any deficiencies you may have in other areas.

I think the bullpen size is the same.

ValpoCory

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2011, 03:32:44 pm »
I think the bullpen size is the same.

Right.  Limey could have said ...

Also, I imagine the bench is smaller by a pinch hitter or two, because you can leave your designated hitter in to bat and you never need extra pinch hitters to bat for starting pitchers.  Same with relievers.  That frees up a spot of two to relieve a bad batter-vs.-pitcher matchup when absolutely necessary.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2011, 03:37:45 pm »
Right.  Limey could have said ...

Also, I imagine the bench is smaller by a pinch hitter or two, because you can leave your designated hitter in to bat and you never need extra pinch hitters to bat for starting pitchers.  Same with relievers.  That frees up a spot of two to relieve a bad batter-vs.-pitcher matchup when absolutely necessary.


Good point.  I guess the trick is that you don't have to have "players" on the bench, you just need hitters.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2011, 03:44:09 pm »
Good point.  I guess the trick is that you don't have to have "players" on the bench, you just need hitters.

Not necessarily just hitters...but weapons.  I'm thinking of Dave Roberts on the '04 Red Sox.

I would think a typical structure would be:

1 backup C
1 backup utility IF
1 speedy OF (defensive replacement / pinch runner)
2 solid pinch hitters (LH and RH)

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2011, 03:45:06 pm »
Good point.  I guess the trick is that you don't have to have "players" on the bench, you just need hitters.

There's also room for a defensive specialist to come in as a late-inning defensive replacement because everyone else on the bench can just be a "hitter" with little regard to needing to fill specific positions in case of double switches, etc...
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Limey

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2011, 04:13:09 pm »
There's also room for a defensive specialist to come in as a late-inning defensive replacement because everyone else on the bench can just be a "hitter" with little regard to needing to fill specific positions in case of double switches, etc...

Interestingly, everyday inter-league play may force AL teams, such as the Astros, to carry more "players".
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2011, 05:22:56 pm »
Interestingly, everyday inter-league play may force AL teams, such as the Astros, to carry more "players".

Do we have many of those?

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #94 on: November 30, 2011, 10:26:19 am »
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2011, 10:37:52 am »
Astros must go all out to land Friedman
From Ken Rosenthal

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Houston-Astros-should-go-all-out-to-land-Andrew-Friedman-as-next-GM-112911

"The commissioner’s office, mindful of the executive salary structure, might freak out. But what is Bud Selig going to do, move the Astros to the American League?"

Bam.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #96 on: November 30, 2011, 10:43:31 am »
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #97 on: November 30, 2011, 10:48:45 am »
Astros must go all out to land Friedman
From Ken Rosenthal

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Houston-Astros-should-go-all-out-to-land-Andrew-Friedman-as-next-GM-112911

I heard he originally wrote a "Astros should half-ass their pursuit of Friedman" draft.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #98 on: November 30, 2011, 11:00:26 am »
Is this the original ownership group of the Rays?

Don't think so.  I read part of a book on the Rays and I recall there was a previous owner who was a fool.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #99 on: November 30, 2011, 11:23:12 am »
Is this the original ownership group of the Rays?

The original Rays owner was Vince Naimoli. He wasn't a fool, just a legendary cheapskate. For example, he refused to have internet service and email for the Rays front office, citing the expense. He sold the team in 2004 to a bunch of (relatively) young Harvard business hotshots, of which Stuart Sternberg eventually became principle owner.  Sternberg fired all the old school "baseball men" and hired his Harvard cronies, including Matthew Silverman and Friedman. They turned the organization around.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2011, 11:27:18 am »
Don't think so.  I read part of a book on the Rays and I recall there was a previous owner who was a fool.
Vince Naimoli was owner from the beginning until late 2005. From Wikipedia:

'Shortly after the season ended, new owner Stuart Sternberg, immediately fired Chuck LaMar along with most of the front office. Matthew Silverman was named the team president, and Andrew Friedman took the role of Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations. Sternberg decided not to have a de jure  General Manager, calling the position "outdated."'
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2011, 11:45:10 am »
The original Rays owner was Vince Naimoli. He wasn't a fool, just a legendary cheapskate. For example, he refused to have internet service and email for the Rays front office, citing the expense. He sold the team in 2004 to a bunch of (relatively) young Harvard business hotshots, of which Stuart Sternberg eventually became principle owner.  Sternberg fired all the old school "baseball men" and hired his Harvard cronies, including Matthew Silverman and Friedman. They turned the organization around.

Just another example of how young and smart is better than old and experienced.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2011, 11:51:27 am »
Just another example of how young and smart is better than old and experienced.

What World Series did the Rays win?
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2011, 11:54:02 am »
What World Series did the Rays win?

Hopefully everything short of winning the WS is not a failure, or the Astros have a sad history indeed.
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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2011, 12:14:33 pm »
Just another example of how young and smart is better than old and experienced.

It's another example of how hard it is to win with a tightwad owner.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: is Wade gone after this weekend?
« Reply #105 on: December 01, 2011, 10:24:02 am »
"The commissioner’s office, mindful of the executive salary structure, might freak out. But what is Bud Selig going to do, move the Astros to the American League?"

Bam.

That would be very refreshing on Crane's part... "FYB!" goes a very long way to me.