One more rant about the league switch

[Houston]

MLB and the media are clueless about moving the Astros to the A.L. They think the fans are unhappy because they don't like changes and just need time to adjust, therefore any current display of discontent will pass with time. On the other side -- the side of reality -- fans are unhappy precisely because they are being ignored and condescended to. Old timers who followed Houston baseball when it was a farm team of the St. Louis Cardinals have longer ties to the N.L. than just the past 50 years, and 50 years is enough on its own.
 
Bud Selig looks for short-term and/or self-serving solutions. When he moved the Brewers to the N.L., it was so he could benefit from a rivalry with the Cubs and Cardinals. He ignored steroids because fans were buying tickets to see bulked-up heroes hit home runs to artificially break long-time records. The bull storyline they're trying to pass on us now is that this will create a "natural" rivalry with the Rangers. Well, there's a shorter distance between D.C. and New York than Houston and Arlington. Why not move the Nationals to the A.L. to foster a natural rivalry with the Yankees? Because that's ridiculous, that's why!
 
It was easy to bully Houston because extortion is easy when $680 million is dangling on the edge. No league switch = no sale approval.
 
Bring on the Rangers, A's, Angels, and Mariners in our new division. It won't matter because right now Houston can't beat any of them and when fans don't return to Minute Maid even after their cooling-off period, the minimal payroll will guarantee Houston not having the talent to consistently beat those teams for a really long time. But Crane finally owns a Major League team like he's always wanted, McLane made a $500 million profit, and Bud Selig gets to keep his team in the NL Central.
 
What a load of crap!

[Limey]

[Golf Clap]

The only thing missing here is the foisting of 27 additional 4-hour games, most of which starting at 9pm.  The missing AISes will hurt the team in the short term, but the lack of TV audience for broadcast games will hurt them in the long run.  They will be lucky to get local broadcasts on U62 in a couple of years.

[austro]

and Bud Selig gets to keep his team in the NL Central.

It dawned on me this morning as I was shaving (I managed not to slit my wrists, but it was close) that there is a precedent for Bud Selig and his actions. So, from here on out, and until those fuckers go back to the AL where they belong, Bud's club will be known to me as the Milwaukee Carpetbaggers.

[Limey]

It dawned on me this morning as I was shaving (I managed not to slit my wrists, but it was close) that there is a precedent for Bud Selig and his actions. So, from here on out, and until those fuckers go back to the AL where they belong, Bud's club will be known to me as the Milwaukee Carpetbaggers Cuckoos.

FIFY

About 56 of the Old World species and 3 of the New World species are brood parasites, laying their eggs in the nests of other birds. The shells of the eggs of brood-parasites is usually thick. The cuckoo egg hatches earlier than the host's, and the cuckoo chick grows faster; in most cases the chick evicts the eggs or young of the host species.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I am reluctant to share this, because I found it totally disheartening.  However, as I watched the local news (which I rarely do, with good cause), the local Fox News Sports segment was dedicated to three interviews.  The first was the curator of the Astros museum located in Foley's Furniture, site of the original Buf's Stadium.  He was angry, referring to the move as Houston being "buffaloe'd".  Rambling on about the travesty, the outrage at 100+ yrs of national league history in Houston being lost over a business deal.  I can see how most folks would see him as a "crank".

The next two interviewees were at a sports bar (I suspect THIS is Bud's target audience) and they were talking about how the AL is better baseball, it's more competitive, and that the Houston Astros will become more exciting once they move to the AL.  I am paraphrasing, to be fair, but this was the 2 to 1 sentiment FOR the move to the AL.  

This leads me to believe that those of us opposed to the move are, simply put, the outliers within the greater pool of sports fans.  Needless to say, I hate populist bullshit...

[Limey]

This leads me to believe that those of us opposed to the move are, simply put, the outliers within the greater pool of sports fans.  Needless to say, I hate populist bullshit...

Fox in Houston has a vested interest in selling the move to fans.  I doubt those were the only fan soundbites they gathered, but they chose to show one crank with an anti view and two "dudes" who are pro.  Needless to say, I love conspiracy theories...

[MusicMan]

Fox in Houston has a vested interest in selling the move to fans. 

Not really.  The move happens after the rights go to Comcast.

[Fredia]

isnt comcast going bankrupt

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

isnt comcast going bankrupt

If there's a God in heaven, then one day, yes.

[Noe]

MLB and the media are clueless about moving the Astros to the A.L. They think the fans are unhappy because they don't like changes and just need time to adjust, therefore any current display of discontent will pass with time. On the other side -- the side of reality -- fans are unhappy precisely because they are being ignored and condescended to. Old timers who followed Houston baseball when it was a farm team of the St. Louis Cardinals have longer ties to the N.L. than just the past 50 years, and 50 years is enough on its own.
 
Bud Selig looks for short-term and/or self-serving solutions. When he moved the Brewers to the N.L., it was so he could benefit from a rivalry with the Cubs and Cardinals. He ignored steroids because fans were buying tickets to see bulked-up heroes hit home runs to artificially break long-time records. The bull storyline they're trying to pass on us now is that this will create a "natural" rivalry with the Rangers. Well, there's a shorter distance between D.C. and New York than Houston and Arlington. Why not move the Nationals to the A.L. to foster a natural rivalry with the Yankees? Because that's ridiculous, that's why!
 
It was easy to bully Houston because extortion is easy when $680 million is dangling on the edge. No league switch = no sale approval.
 
Bring on the Rangers, A's, Angels, and Mariners in our new division. It won't matter because right now Houston can't beat any of them and when fans don't return to Minute Maid even after their cooling-off period, the minimal payroll will guarantee Houston not having the talent to consistently beat those teams for a really long time. But Crane finally owns a Major League team like he's always wanted, McLane made a $500 million profit, and Bud Selig gets to keep his team in the NL Central.
 
What a load of crap!

Outstanding! Bravo sir!

[austro]

If there's a God in heaven, then one day, yes.

And you know why that will be? Because they shit on their customers. Mr. Crane might want to take note.

[Noe]

I am reluctant to share this, because I found it totally disheartening.  However, as I watched the local news (which I rarely do, with good cause), the local Fox News Sports segment was dedicated to three interviews.  The first was the curator of the Astros museum located in Foley's Furniture, site of the original Buf's Stadium.  He was angry, referring to the move as Houston being "buffaloe'd".  Rambling on about the travesty, the outrage at 100+ yrs of national league history in Houston being lost over a business deal.  I can see how most folks would see him as a "crank".

The next two interviewees were at a sports bar (I suspect THIS is Bud's target audience) and they were talking about how the AL is better baseball, it's more competitive, and that the Houston Astros will become more exciting once they move to the AL.  I am paraphrasing, to be fair, but this was the 2 to 1 sentiment FOR the move to the AL.  

This leads me to believe that those of us opposed to the move are, simply put, the outliers within the greater pool of sports fans.  Needless to say, I hate populist bullshit...

Then they don't need me.  'Nuff said.

[kevwun]

What is this better baseball crap?  4 of the last 6 World Series Champions are NL teams.

[MusicMan]

What is this better baseball crap?  4 of the last 6 World Series Champions are NL teams.

Red Sox.  Yankees.  That's all the sheep need to know.

[Noe]

What is this better baseball crap?  4 of the last 6 World Series Champions are NL teams.

Two drunks in a bar would rather watch "yackball" as if they're watching some sort of NBA game.  That is what *they* call "better baseball".

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Two drunks in a bar would rather watch "yackball" as if they're watching some sort of NBA game.  That is what *they* call "better baseball".

Exactly... I think this long referenced statement should be amended from "Chicks dig the longball" to "Chicks and dipshit drunks dig the longball". 

I am going to make every effort to reconcile myself with this change.  But as of now, I don't like it one bit.  To be honest, I feel my fan loyalt to the Astros is somewhat cheapened, if not all together artificial.

[Astroholic]

I am reluctant to share this, because I found it totally disheartening.  However, as I watched the local news (which I rarely do, with good cause), the local Fox News Sports segment was dedicated to three interviews.  The first was the curator of the Astros museum located in Foley's Furniture, site of the original Buf's Stadium.  He was angry, referring to the move as Houston being "buffaloe'd".  Rambling on about the travesty, the outrage at 100+ yrs of national league history in Houston being lost over a business deal.  I can see how most folks would see him as a "crank".

The next two interviewees were at a sports bar (I suspect THIS is Bud's target audience) and they were talking about how the AL is better baseball, it's more competitive, and that the Houston Astros will become more exciting once they move to the AL.  I am paraphrasing, to be fair, but this was the 2 to 1 sentiment FOR the move to the AL.  

This leads me to believe that those of us opposed to the move are, simply put, the outliers within the greater pool of sports fans.  Needless to say, I hate populist bullshit...

One slight correction (Not that it matters).  Its Finger Furniture not Foley's.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

One slight correction (Not that it matters).  Its Finger Furniture not Foley's.

Thanks... it does.  Fingers Furniture is a Houston landmark, which Bud Selig will move to Dallas starting in 2013.

[Noe]

Thanks... it does.  Fingers Furniture is a Houston landmark, which Bud Selig will move to Dallas starting in 2013.

And rename it middle finger furniture too.

[Navin R Johnson]

On how long it takes to play an American League game vs National League game.

According to this, http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/26/2190937/game-duration-2010-I

in 2010 the average AL West game took 2:45 Minutes.  The average length of an Astros game in 2010?  2 hours 45 minutes.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

On how long it takes to play an American League game vs National League game.

According to this, http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/26/2190937/game-duration-2010-I

in 2010 the average AL West game took 2:45 Minutes.  The average length of an Astros game in 2010?  2 hours 45 minutes.

Don't stop us... we're on a roll.

[austro]

The average length of an Astros game in 2010?  2 hours 45 minutes.

What was the average length of an Astros v. Rangers game? That seems like a better predictor.

[Navin R Johnson]

What was the average length of an Astros v. Rangers game? That seems like a better predictor.

Rangers 2:51, Astros 2:45

[Limey]

Rangers 2:51, Astros 2:45

Astros pitching facing an AL lineup is going to explode those numbers.  Even when losing, you still have to get at least 24 outs.

[MusicMan]

Astros pitching facing an AL lineup is going to explode those numbers.  Even when losing, you still have to get at least 24 outs.

Yeah, but LaRussa's retirement will totally move the curve.

[Navin R Johnson]

Just did the 2011 numbers.   Average Astros game, 2 hours 56 minutes.  Average Rangers game, 2 Hours 55 minutes.

Games 3 Hours or longer, Astros 66, Rangers 66.
Games 3.5 Hours or Longer, Astros 11, Rangers 12
4+ Hour games, Astros 1, Rangers 1.

[roadrunner]

Yeah the length of game argument doesn't really work unless you're talking about Yankees/Red Sox games, but that's because ESPN and Fox love to drag those out.

Plus, the way the current Astros approach at-bats I'm sure the game will continue to be a quick pace for the near future.

[austro]

Astros pitching facing an AL lineup is going to explode those numbers.  Even when losing, you still have to get at least 24 outs.

Right. That's what I meant: what was the average game time for the six games that the Astros and Rangers played last year. That seems like a better predictor of what we're in for, and it's the "AL bats clobbering the Astros bullpen" aspect that I'm most concerned about. Although, as roadrunner points out, maybe we'll get that time back in brief Astro ABs.

[Houston]

Right. That's what I meant: what was the average game time for the six games that the Astros and Rangers played last year. That seems like a better predictor of what we're in for, and it's the "AL bats clobbering the Astros bullpen" aspect that I'm most concerned about. Although, as roadrunner points out, maybe we'll get that time back in brief Astro ABs.

The best representation of what you're looking for can be found in the three games the Astros played in Arlington because the DH was obviously used. That's how it'll be once the Astros officially move, so it's an accurate comparison.

The three games lasted:

2:46
3:15
2:52

[Navin R Johnson]

The Orioles, who had the worst ERA in all of baseball 4.92 (to the Astros 4.51), had an average game time of 2 hours 53 minutes.   That includes 33 games with Sox and Yanks.

[Navin R Johnson]

The best representation of what you're looking for can be found in the three games the Astros played in Arlington because the DH was obviously used. That's how it'll be once the Astros officially move, so it's an accurate comparison.

The three games lasted:

2:46
3:15
2:52

Which is basically what the average Astros game lasted in 2011.

[Ron Brand]

I'm pretty sure that game length has essentially evened out over the last decade or so.

[subnuclear]

If you are curious like I was, here are the average runs scored/G for the years 1998-2011.

Year  NL    AL
1998 4.60 5.01
1999 5.00 5.18
2000 5.00 5.30
2001 4.70 4.86
2002 4.45 4.81
2003 4.61 4.86
2004 4.64 5.01
2005 4.45 4.76
2006 4.76 4.97
2007 4.71 4.90
2008 4.54 4.78
2009 4.43 4.82
2010 4.33 4.45
2011 4.13 4.46

I suspect the high numbers in the beginning were combination of expansion and steroids.

[HudsonHawk]

It dawned on me this morning as I was shaving (I managed not to slit my wrists, but it was close) that there is a precedent for Bud Selig and his actions. So, from here on out, and until those fuckers go back to the AL where they belong, Bud's club will be known to me as the Milwaukee Carpetbaggers.

Bud has had an axe to grind for a long time. His motivation in baseball has always centered around getting and keeping a National League team in Milwaukee. If you're not familiar with Bud's history, I'd encourage you to read up on his involvement with the Braves and his lawsuits against the National League. It becomes clear what motivates Bud, and it ain't the best interest of baseball.

[NeilT]

I thought most of last year's Astros games lasted an eternity.

[Noe]

On how long it takes to play an American League game vs National League game.

According to this, http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/26/2190937/game-duration-2010-I

in 2010 the average AL West game took 2:45 Minutes.  The average length of an Astros game in 2010?  2 hours 45 minutes.

Astros = bad pitching.  AL = more offense.  Astros + AL = 4 hour games.

[Noe]

The Orioles, who had the worst ERA in all of baseball 4.92 (to the Astros 4.51), had an average game time of 2 hours 53 minutes.   That includes 33 games with Sox and Yanks.

ERA is predicated on offense and not so much on suckitude of the pitching.  The Astros having a 4.51 in the NL means much more trouble than the Orioles having a 4.92 in a offensive ladden league.  The Astros pitched that badly in a pitchers league.

[Jacksonian]

Astros = bad pitching.  AL = more offense.  Astros + AL = 4 hour games.

Mills will be the perfect pitchman for a shoe repair place.

[Noe]

Mills will be the perfect pitchman for a shoe repair place.

Last year was torture to have to sit through those very boring and long games.  Now the thing is: it will be a full-time experience and not just the product of bad pitching.  Whoopee!

[OregonStrosFan]

Last year was torture to have to sit through those very boring and long games.  Now the thing is: it will be a full-time experience and not just the product of bad pitching.  Whoopee!

FWIW, I don't exactly recall the AL West being a true offensive juggernaut (sans the Dallas Rangers)... And I know for a fact that the Mariners are not...

[Navin R Johnson]

ERA is predicated on offense and not so much on suckitude of the pitching.  The Astros having a 4.51 in the NL means much more trouble than the Orioles having a 4.92 in a offensive ladden league.  The Astros pitched that badly in a pitchers league.

I understand that, my point was just that we aren't going from 2 1/2 hour games to 4 hour games, even with this pitching staff.

And if they are able to build a competent staff in the near future then the game lengths AL/NL is a non-factor.  To me the only difference is the DH, which I am not a fan.  While I enjoy the familiarity with most of the NL teams we have played for 50 years, I have never gone to see the Cards/Cubs/Dodgers/Mets/etc... I have always gone to see the Astros. 

[Noe]

FWIW, I don't exactly recall the AL West being a true offensive juggernaut (sans the Dallas Rangers)... And I know for a fact that the Mariners are not...

Anytime, and I mean any time, you have 9 hitters in the lineup (major league hitters) you have more offense and a more difficult game for a pitcher to manage.This is about having to play this way *all the time*, not just on occasion.  The Astros were not built to compete in the AL, but they will have to revamp now.The AL team who win consistently and make it to the championship rounds have to be able to do more than just your average baseball team.  They must be able to play AL style ball and also play NL style ball.  Meaning when you have to, you must be able to beat the other team with offense... lots of it.  Then you must be able to win with pitching and defense too or else you won't do much after the first round of the playoffs.  Basically the difference between what the Dallas Rangers were before and what they are now.  They need Josh Hamilton as much as they need CJ Wilson in that regard.

So citing the worst AL West teams isn't comforting.... it basically tells you that unless you spend *more* for offense as well as get the defense and pitching in place for going beyond yackball, you're a run of the mill team for the long run.  Is this what I am being told though... we're moving over to the AL, we cannot outspend the Yankees and Red Sox, so we're always going to be middle of the pack.  At least in the NL, the Astros had a chance with pitching and defense.

That all changed yesterday.

[Noe]

I understand that, my point was just that we aren't going from 2 1/2 hour games to 4 hour games, even with this pitching staff.

And if they are able to build a competent staff in the near future then the game lengths AL/NL is a non-factor.  To me the only difference is the DH, which I am not a fan.  While I enjoy the familiarity with most of the NL teams we have played for 50 years, I have never gone to see the Cards/Cubs/Dodgers/Mets/etc... I have always gone to see the Astros. 

Cool.  I am happy for you.  I hate AL baseball.  It is unwatchable, so good wishes following it from now on.

[austro]

The best representation of what you're looking for can be found in the three games the Astros played in Arlington because the DH was obviously used. That's how it'll be once the Astros officially move, so it's an accurate comparison.

The three games lasted:

2:46
3:15
2:52

Thanks. That's certainly not what I expected to see. I can't remember: was there a mercy rule involved?

[Limey]

Thanks. That's certainly not what I expected to see. I can't remember: was there a mercy rule involved?

I wonder how much the ease of managing helps the AL in keeping the game times down.

(And, how much La Genius inflated game times in the NL).

[austro]

I wonder how much the ease of managing helps the AL in keeping the game times down.

(And, how much La Genius inflated game times in the NL).

That's certainly possible. Perhaps the extra baserunners are offset by the fewer pinch hitters and (possibly) fewer relief changes.

[Arky Vaughan]

FIFY

The Astros were not built to compete in the AL.MLB.

[Outlawscotty]

Thanks. That's certainly not what I expected to see. I can't remember: was there a mercy rule involved?

Do not give that motherfucker any more ideas.

[Fredia]

that is one brain  that is more messed up than mine

[Reuben]

This is pretty funny: Twins and Astros: A Rivalry is Born!