Author Topic: Art Howe and Moneyball  (Read 7750 times)

subnuclear

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Art Howe and Moneyball
« on: September 28, 2011, 11:40:55 am »
Zach Levine has a nice interview with Art Howe about Moneyball.

Do people remember why he was fired in 1993? Seemed like a good manager to me.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 11:46:48 am by subnuclear »

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 11:45:38 am »
I liked him back then, too, but I was just a kid. Seemed unfair that he suffered through the losing rebuilding years, then was fired just as the team was getting good.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 12:06:33 pm »
Do people remember why he was fired in 1993? Seemed like a good manager to me.

I'm guessing the words "Craig Biggio" were involved.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 01:35:25 pm »
He was on the pre-game show tossing around "character assassination" last night.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 01:41:23 pm »
He was on the pre-game show tossing around "character assassination" last night.

i really liked the movie, but his was a pretty awful character.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 01:44:59 pm »
He was on the pre-game show tossing around "character assassination" last night.

Saw that, but couldn't determine if he was pissed about only the movie, or both the book and the movie.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 01:59:49 pm »
I'm guessing the words "Craig Biggio" were involved.

Drayton didn't care for him.  Not sure if I remember the reason correctly, but winning in Spring Training, something, something.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 08:12:37 pm »
Drayton didn't care for him.  Not sure if I remember the reason correctly, but winning in Spring Training, something, something.

I think he was too low-key for Drayton.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 08:36:18 pm »
I think he was too low-key for Drayton.

That he didn't go balls-out to win during spring training sounds about right to me.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 09:40:27 pm »
That he didn't go balls-out to win during spring training sounds about right to me.

Actually, I think that was one of the reasons. But they must have made peace because Howe is on team broadcasts.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 09:46:41 pm »
He was on the pre-game show tossing around "character assassination" last night.

That whole segment pissed me off.  Who gives a fuck what Art Howe thinks about anything?  If he is feels like he was portrayed innacurately in Moneyball, that's his problem.  He had no business rebutting the movie script point by nitpicky point on an Astros pre-game show.  Of course, he had Patty Smith sitting right there, egging him on.  She probably thought she had some kind of big story on her hands.

The whole thing was desultory, just like this whole fucking season.  Howe may have had a legitimate complaint, but he ended up coming off as a small-minded whiner and a monumental bore.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 11:33:21 pm »
That whole segment pissed me off.  Who gives a fuck what Art Howe thinks about anything?  If he is feels like he was portrayed innacurately in Moneyball, that's his problem.  He had no business rebutting the movie script point by nitpicky point on an Astros pre-game show.  Of course, he had Patty Smith sitting right there, egging him on.  She probably thought she had some kind of big story on her hands.

The whole thing was desultory, just like this whole fucking season.  Howe may have had a legitimate complaint, but he ended up coming off as a small-minded whiner and a monumental bore.

he has every right to complain. this is his legacy at stake
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 01:28:02 am by Rebel Jew »

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 09:10:18 am »
he has every right to complain. this is his legacy at stake

True.  But the Astros have no duty to give him a forum.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 09:38:10 am »
True.  But the Astros have no duty to give him a forum.

I think alot of old-time Astros fans like myself are interested to know what Art thinks about his portrayal.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 09:51:35 am »
I think alot of old-time Astros fans like myself are interested to know what Art thinks about his portrayal.

Yep.  Seemed reasonable to me.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 09:53:00 am »
So the options are Art talking about Moneyball or Art talking about the 2011 Astros.  I think most folks would be fine with the first option.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 11:16:32 am »
That whole segment pissed me off.  Who gives a fuck what Art Howe thinks about anything?  If he is feels like he was portrayed innacurately in Moneyball, that's his problem.  He had no business rebutting the movie script point by nitpicky point on an Astros pre-game show.  Of course, he had Patty Smith sitting right there, egging him on.  She probably thought she had some kind of big story on her hands.

The whole thing was desultory, just like this whole fucking season.  Howe may have had a legitimate complaint, but he ended up coming off as a small-minded whiner and a monumental bore.

In principle, I can appreciate what you are saying.  However, our pop-centric culture has regressed into one where character assassination is celebrated and considered a demonstration of superiority.  It doesn't matter the medium, be it TV, movies, news (so-called), or books.  Moneyball, the book, didn't portray Howe in a positive light.  But it was made clear that it was Beane's opinion.  I have not seen the movie, and probably won't (although not out of any disdain for Pitt or the content), but if half of what was stated by Howe accurately depicts the content of the movie, it's simply bad form. 

These are real people (Howe), who are knowledgeable professionals in their chosen field.  The people making these movies should try to do/be the same.  It's a simple matter of integrity.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 03:33:03 pm »
That whole segment pissed me off.  Who gives a fuck what Art Howe thinks about anything?  If he is feels like he was portrayed innacurately in Moneyball, that's his problem.  He had no business rebutting the movie script point by nitpicky point on an Astros pre-game show.  Of course, he had Patty Smith sitting right there, egging him on.  She probably thought she had some kind of big story on her hands.

The whole thing was desultory, just like this whole fucking season.  Howe may have had a legitimate complaint, but he ended up coming off as a small-minded whiner and a monumental bore.

I didn't get to see the segment. Patti Smith is a moron anyway. Art should have simply said that neither the movie nor the book were truthful and left it at that.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 03:48:31 pm »
I didn't get to see the segment. Patti Smith is a moron anyway. Art should have simply said that neither the movie nor the book were truthful and left it at that.
The other night when Patti asked the 101 year old Astros fan who his favorite Astros player was and replied, "Bob Watson--have you heard of him?" Patti replied "Can't say that I have."
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 04:14:14 pm »
I think he was too low-key for Drayton.

*Ding, Ding, Ding*

McLane, the first time owner of the Houston Astros, was a football fan and thought the manager should be as fiery as a football coach.  So they hired Terry Collins to replace Howe.  Insert the "something to do with Craig Biggio" line next.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 04:15:45 pm »
The other night when Patti asked the 101 year old Astros fan who his favorite Astros player was and replied, "Bob Watson--have you heard of him?" Patti replied "Can't say that I have."

Sheesh... what a waster of a perfectly good mole too!

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 04:25:27 pm »
Sheesh... what a waster of a perfectly good mole too!

That isn't a mole.  It's an otter.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2011, 04:32:59 pm »

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2011, 04:54:52 pm »
The other night when Patti asked the 101 year old Astros fan who his favorite Astros player was and replied, "Bob Watson--have you heard of him?" Patti replied "Can't say that I have."

I saw that interview. She's an idiot.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2011, 06:00:07 pm »
http://deadspin.com/5836048/astros-announcer-pauses-reflects-remains-completely-baffled-by-the-foreign-concept-of-reggaeton

"These three honkies..." wow, that is pretty seriously.... nice!

Very few things in sports bother me more than the announcers of major league sporting teams in 2011 incapable of pronouncing simple, popular names in Spanish.   Hell, even the tough ones.   If you were an announcer, and you saw Ubaldo Jimenez was starting tonight, wouldn't your first thought be "shit, I should probably go down and make sure I'm pronouncing this one right"?

The man almost won a CYA and there are multiple announcers in MLB that still pronounce it yoo-BALL-doh JIM-ih-nez.    How is this possible?

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2011, 07:56:04 pm »
Very few things in sports bother me more than the announcers of major league sporting teams in 2011 incapable of pronouncing simple, popular names in Spanish.   Hell, even the tough ones.   If you were an announcer, and you saw Ubaldo Jimenez was starting tonight, wouldn't your first thought be "shit, I should probably go down and make sure I'm pronouncing this one right"?

The man almost won a CYA and there are multiple announcers in MLB that still pronounce it yoo-BALL-doh JIM-ih-nez.    How is this possible?

The league distributes a cheat sheet with the phonetic pronunciations of the names, or at least they used to. There's no excuse.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2011, 07:58:37 pm »
The league distributes a cheat sheet with the phonetic pronunciations of the names, or at least they used to. There's no excuse.

That's even worse.

I actually gained a lot of respect for Bob Sheppard (Yankees old PA) when I found out he used to make a huge point of meeting each player individually and learning how they wanted their name pronounced.   And this wasn't a few years ago, this was 50 years ago.    It just ain't that hard to do.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2011, 08:35:07 pm »
Well, judging from the video I found the good news is the entire Astros crowd stuck around for the Reg-action stylings of China and Nacho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejUwg37Dwho&feature=related

The other entertaining thing is that China and Nacho are playing merengue.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2011, 10:29:41 pm »
Well, judging from the video I found the good news is the entire Astros crowd stuck around for the Reg-action stylings of China and Nacho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejUwg37Dwho&feature=related

The other entertaining thing is that China and Nacho are playing merengue.

Christ. I thought that was Drama and Turtle.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2011, 05:25:45 am »
For some reason I'm hungry for Chinese Nachos.
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Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2011, 11:59:07 am »
Very few things in sports bother me more than the announcers of major league sporting teams in 2011 incapable of pronouncing simple, popular names in Spanish.   Hell, even the tough ones.   If you were an announcer, and you saw Ubaldo Jimenez was starting tonight, wouldn't your first thought be "shit, I should probably go down and make sure I'm pronouncing this one right"?

The man almost won a CYA and there are multiple announcers in MLB that still pronounce it yoo-BALL-doh JIM-ih-nez.    How is this possible?

About 90% of them can't even get close on Chavez or Perez; they've got no chance with Ubaldo Jimenez. They are too busy snickering.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2011, 12:38:32 pm »
I actually gained a lot of respect for Bob Sheppard (Yankees old PA) when I found out he used to make a huge point of meeting each player individually and learning how they wanted their name pronounced.   And this wasn't a few years ago, this was 50 years ago.    It just ain't that hard to do.

I'm no huge Jeter fan, but the level of respect for Sheppard was clear when Jeter asked him to record his intro so that Jeter could use it for the rest of his career.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2011, 05:42:01 pm »

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2011, 07:33:19 pm »
Dierker's view on Moneyball. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110929&content_id=25391836&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

I hear Billy Beane on the radio every once in a while, and he seems like a really good guy, and seems to have a very humble, laid-back, northern california personality. i know dierker didn't exactly mean it this way, but beane strikes me as the last guy who would label himself a genius.

one of the chief criticisms dierker brings up is how beane had muler, hudson, and zito, except this ignores that beane basically drafted all three, and pulled off shrewd trades for cory lidle, johnny damon, and isringhausen. that being said, beane owes a huge debt to sandy alderson for building a quality organization and hiring bright people like beane in the first place.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2011, 06:34:00 am »
About 90% of them can't even get close on Chavez or Perez; they've got no chance with Ubaldo Jimenez. They are too busy snickering.

90% of the people out there can't get Chavez or Perez correct, even after being told.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2011, 04:34:25 pm »
Finally got around to watching the movie this weekend.  The phone call at the beginning with the agent named "Scott" was a nice touch.  "Thanks a lot, asshole."
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2011, 08:17:21 pm »
Finally got around to watching the movie this weekend.  The phone call at the beginning with the agent named "Scott" was a nice touch.  "Thanks a lot, asshole."

Who was cast as the Barzilla character?  Kiefer Sutherland, right?

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2011, 09:10:41 pm »
Who was cast as the Barzilla character?  Kiefer Sutherland, right?

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2011, 09:43:30 pm »
Who was cast as the Barzilla character?  Kiefer Sutherland, right?

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2011, 12:58:36 am »
Who was cast as the Barzilla character?  Kiefer Sutherland, right?


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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2011, 09:19:48 am »
Who was cast as the Barzilla character?  Kiefer Sutherland, right?

He had to pay his way onto the set.  The "Dumbass #8 in the stands" character's actor doesn't get credit.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2011, 02:13:17 pm »
"If you can't figure out that Astros doesn't have an apostrophe, you shouldn't be able to comment." - Ron Brand, June 9, 2010

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2011, 03:02:13 pm »
Yogi thought it was unfair to Art:
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/baseball-icon-has-problem-moneyball-movie

Thought this was an interesting sentence:

Quote
...in addition to his stint on the Astros coaching staff, he also provided anti-aircraft cover as a gunner's mate from a boat during the D-Day invasion of Normandy.

One of these things is a bit more difficult than the other.
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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2011, 03:07:56 pm »
I got a kick out his description of team meals.

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Re: Art Howe and Moneyball
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2011, 03:27:08 pm »
Thought this was an interesting sentence:

I think "vodka with extra ice and scallops" is an interesting drink.  Disgusting, but interesting*.


* Yes, I know the scallops weren't in the drink - just ragging on the "reporter" who can properly construct a sentence.
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