A&M to SEC?

[Andyzipp]

I understand the general slant of this board is going to range from who cares to good riddance with lots of laughter in between, but...


There's A LOT of smoke around A&M changing conferences to the east this morning.

If this happens, I assume the Big XII-II would continue with TCU or (more likely IMO) Houston.

[BizidyDizidy]

I think the Big XIIish is dead man walking at this point - A&M prob to SEC (maybe with OU), Texas goes independent, and the rest scurry for homes.

[Ebby Calvin]

I understand the general slant of this board is going to range from who cares to good riddance with lots of laughter in between, but...


There's A LOT of smoke around A&M changing conferences to the east this morning.

If this happens, I assume the Big XII-II would continue with TCU or (more likely IMO) Houston.

Isn't TCU already spoken for?  Big East right?

[Andyzipp]

I think the Big XIIish is dead man walking at this point - A&M prob to SEC (maybe with OU), Texas goes independent, and the rest scurry for homes.

It should be, but being in a conference with a BCS bid is beneficial to Texas and OU.  Beyond the olympic sports, independence is a tough road.  Maybe the money Texas has now makes those benefits moot.

[Andyzipp]

Isn't TCU already spoken for?  Big East right?

Complete speculation on my part.  I assume that TCU would rather be here in a weak-BCS conference than there dealing with the travel and whatnot.  On the other hand, if more than just A&M leaves...I don't think there is a Big 12.

[austro]

I think the Big XIIish is dead man walking at this point - A&M prob to SEC (maybe with OU), Texas goes independent, and the rest scurry for homes.

I think this is how it all finally shakes out, too. UT football could probably do fine in such a scenario (and they'd get less grief about the TV deal), but I'm not sure what it would mean for other sports. Even Notre Dame belongs to the Big East for basketball and baseball purposes.

[MusicMan]

I understand the general slant of this board is going to range from who cares to good riddance with lots of laughter in between, but...


There's A LOT of smoke around A&M changing conferences to the east this morning.

If this happens, I assume the Big XII-II would continue with TCU or (more likely IMO) Houston.

If A&M goes to SEC, the Big 12 is finished.  TCU can't move, there's a shitload of penalties in the Big East contract.  UT will view the A&M move as their permission to test the independence waters.

The ultimate result will be the mega-conferences that were narrowly averted last year, but Notre Dame and UT will team to get the biggest sweetheart deal you can think of.

[MusicMan]

There's A LOT of smoke around A&M changing conferences to the east this morning.

By the way... private sources, message boards, what kind of smoke?

[Jacksonian]

If A&M goes to SEC, the Big 12 is finished.  TCU can't move, there's a shitload of penalties in the Big East contract.  UT will view the A&M move as their permission to test the independence waters.

The ultimate result will be the mega-conferences that were narrowly averted last year, but Notre Dame and UT will team to get the biggest sweetheart deal you can think of.

Notre Dame won't team.  They already have the biggest sweetheart deal.  They own NBC and won't share.

[BizidyDizidy]

It should be, but being in a conference with a BCS bid is beneficial to Texas and OU.  Beyond the olympic sports, independence is a tough road.  Maybe the money Texas has now makes those benefits moot.

I'm sure Texas can get the same ND bullshit BCS guarantee if they are in the top 8 or whatever.

[MusicMan]

Notre Dame won't team.  They already have the biggest sweetheart deal.  They own NBC and won't share.

You'd be surprised.

[Andyzipp]

By the way... private sources, message boards, what kind of smoke?

Private sources at this point, but I haven't gone to the message boards yet...except here.

[Jacksonian]

I'm sure Texas can get the same ND bullshit BCS guarantee if they are in the top 8 or whatever.

Why?

[MusicMan]

Why?

$$$$$$$

[Andyzipp]

You'd be surprised.

Texas already has a sweetheart deal via ESPN...I'm pretty sure $300MM is a sweetheart deal.  The only thing they would need to do if they truly go indy is get the BCS to set them up the same way ND is set up.  Which is a no-brainer.

[MusicMan]

Billy Liucci is making some pretty bold tweets that this will happen, as in A&M starts football play in 2012.

[Jacksonian]

Texas already has a sweetheart deal via ESPN...I'm pretty sure $300MM is a sweetheart deal.  The only thing they would need to do if they truly go indy is get the BCS to set them up the same way ND is set up.  Which is a no-brainer.

I don't get this.  Texas isn't in ND's class for national name recognition.  No one is.  Only people in Texas think that.  If the BCS opens to Texas, though I don't know why the other large schools in the BCS would allow it, then other schools, like Florida, and perhaps the entire SEC and Big Ten, will have to be satisfied in some massive way.

[Andyzipp]

Billy Liucci is making some pretty bold tweets that this will happen, as in A&M starts football play in 2012.

Just saw that, and he's still using IF.  On the other hand, he very rarely goes out on any kind of limb, so he's getting information from somewhere.

[jbm]

I understand the general slant of this board is going to range from who cares to good riddance with lots of laughter in between, but...


There's A LOT of smoke around A&M changing conferences to the east this morning.

If this happens, I assume the Big XII-II would continue with TCU or (more likely IMO) Houston.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it is about time.  The aggies have been whistling dixie for a long time, and it is about time they fulfill their wish.  This wish seems to part of a larger sentiment I see taking over this state in the last years which I find disturbing and weakening.  Namely, that Texas is a deep south state which blames Washington for all its troubles and harbors resentments against anything which is not steeped in rural culture.  There might not be a connection, since this is only an athletic alignment, but hopefully, A&M's move might help free others in this state to look beyond the deep south for their values.  

[MusicMan]

For the record, as long as the rivalry game is still played on Thanksgiving, I'm totally cool with this move.  IT's the right move for the Aggies and not for UT, so let's have an amicable divorce.

[Ron Brand]

What I saw was that the Aggies were offered 50% partnership in what became the Longhorn Network back when Texas was just fishing around for a deal. After they made one with ESPN, A&M was again offered partnership but turned that down too. If that's true, is this the only way they can save face, by moving to another conference where they will be even farther down the totem pole than the one they're in already?

[Andyzipp]

I know you don't want to hear it, but it is about time.  The aggies have been whistling dixie for a long time, and it is about time they fulfill their wish. 

This is true.  Lots of Ags wanted to head east in the early 90's.

This wish seems to part of a larger sentiment I see taking over this state in the last years which I find disturbing and weakening.  Namely, that Texas is a deep south state which blames Washington for all its troubles and harbors resentments against anything which is not steeped in rural culture. 

I think you're reaching.  The general impetus this time is that Texas A&M's leadership doesn't like what the LHN means for them (right or wrong). 

There might not be a connection, since this is only an athletic alignment, but hopefully, A&M's move might help free others in this state to look beyond the deep south for their values. 

Both fan bases have their share of rednecks, hayseeds, and yokels.  Those aren't the people involved in making this decision.  If it were, A&M would have left last summer.

[Andyzipp]

What I saw was that the Aggies were offered 50% partnership in what became the Longhorn Network back when Texas was just fishing around for a deal. After they made one with ESPN, A&M was again offered partnership but turned that down too. If that's true, is this the only way they can save face, by moving to another conference where they will be even farther down the totem pole than the one they're in already?

The deal was never even, according to my sources.  Dodds approached Byrne about 60/40.  Byrne didn't think any one or two schools could produce enough content to make a channel viable.  His mistake.

From my perspective, I have no issue with Texas doing what is best for them, be it a cable channel or whatever.  I wish A&M had the vision and pull to get something like that done.  Since they don't, being a member of a strong(er) conference is the way the winds seem to be blowing, currently.

[Ron Brand]

The deal was never even, according to my sources.  Dodds approached Byrne about 60/40.  Byrne didn't think any one or two schools could produce enough content to make a channel viable.  His mistake.

From my perspective, I have no issue with Texas doing what is best for them, be it a cable channel or whatever.  I wish A&M had the vision and pull to get something like that done.  Since they don't, being a member of a strong(er) conference is the way the winds seem to be blowing, currently.

I'd heard the first offer, before the deal was made, was 50%. After the deal, it was 60/40. It's unfortunate that they think this is the only way to please their people.

[Guinness]

This wish seems to part of a larger sentiment I see taking over this state in the last years which I find disturbing and weakening.  Namely, that Texas is a deep south state which blames Washington for all its troubles and harbors resentments against anything which is not steeped in rural culture.  There might not be a connection, since this is only an athletic alignment, but hopefully, A&M's move might help free others in this state to look beyond the deep south for their values.  

So maybe this can lead to the Astros getting rid of the cowboy imagery and unis and get back to the 'astro' part of their history?

[94CougarGrad]

I don't know the specifics, not having familiarized myself with TCU's BE agreement, but with their fairly recent history of conference-hopping and -shopping, I wouldn't be surprised if there are stiff penalties for their departure.

I'd always heard UT didn't want an SEC school in Texas due to the recruiting competition. I also keep hearing that there's no way Houston will ever get a Big XII-II invite.

If the Big XII-II loses any more schools than it already has, particularly UT, A&M, and/or Oklahoma, I don't think it'd be in TCU's or Houston's best interests to accept invites if they *did* come. If the conference folded, there'd be another mass scramble to find a home, which would probably yield poor results.

[Bench]

So maybe this can lead to the Astros getting rid of the cowboy imagery and unis and get back to the 'astro' part of their history?

And maybe we can get Southwestern Bell back!

[Ron Brand]

I'd always heard UT didn't want an SEC school in Texas due to the recruiting competition. I also keep hearing that there's no way Houston will ever get a Big XII-II invite.

This.

[MusicMan]

I'd always heard UT didn't want an SEC school in Texas due to the recruiting competition.

I think this is overblown.  I think UT doesn't want SEC recruiting *practices* in Texas.

I also keep hearing that there's no way Houston will ever get a Big XII-II invite.

Not so long as UT is a member.  Dodds won't give them the time of day.

If the Big XII-II loses any more schools than it already has, particularly UT, A&M, and/or Oklahoma, I don't think it'd be in TCU's or Houston's best interests to accept invites if they *did* come. If the conference folded, there'd be another mass scramble to find a home, which would probably yield poor results.

I agree.  The Aggies are about to tip the dominoes again.  I don't blame them, I just wish this had all gone down last year so it was done with.

[Andyzipp]

This.

Again, just speculation on my part with the UH stuff.  I think they're a better conference partner than ISU for instance.

Also, I've heard from many of my Longhorn friends that A&M is easily replaceable anyway...

[MusicMan]

Also, I've heard from many of my Longhorn friends that A&M is easily replaceable anyway...

You need smarter Longhorn friends.

[BizidyDizidy]

You need smarter Longhorn friends.

Why would they be friends with an Aggie?

[Andyzipp]

Why would they be friends with an Aggie?

Oil changes, lawn maintenance, sheep sexing, cheating...

[Lurch]

I'll help pack

[Ebby Calvin]

Oil changes, lawn maintenance, sheep sexing, cheating...

Finally, an Aggie who gets it.

[Ron Brand]

Also, I've heard from many of my Longhorn friends that A&M is easily replaceable anyway...

Cute, but it's going to be difficult to replace that history. UT might treat this the same way they treated Arkansas though.

[Andyzipp]

Cute, but it's going to be difficult to replace that history. UT might treat this the same way they treated Arkansas though.

If both schools wanted to continue playing, I'm not sure why that couldn't be arranged.

Florida still plays FSU every year.

[Ron Brand]

The flip side to this though is that there is not and has not been an invitation from the SEC for A&M to join, as far as I know. There was some talk, but that talk centered around getting both Texas and A&M to join together. I haven't seen anything about an offer being made to A&M by itself.

[Ron Brand]

If both schools wanted to continue playing, I'm not sure why that couldn't be arranged.

Florida still plays FSU every year.

Oh, it certainly could be arranged. I'm not so sure that both sides would want it to continue, at least not for a while. If Texas feels like this is A&M spitting in the face of their good will offers, they might want to give that Thanksgiving game a little pause.

[Andyzipp]

The flip side to this though is that there is not and has not been an invitation from the SEC for A&M to join, as far as I know. There was some talk, but that talk centered around getting both Texas and A&M to join together. I haven't seen anything about an offer being made to A&M by itself.

You are misinformed about this.

[Ron Brand]

You are misinformed about this.

Wouldn't be the first time. I'm not that close to it, just going on what I've read.

[Andyzipp]

Oh, it certainly could be arranged. I'm not so sure that both sides would want it to continue, at least not for a while. If Texas feels like this is A&M spitting in the face of their good will offers, they might want to give that Thanksgiving game a little pause.

Likely not.  And I'm curious to know what you think the good will offers are that Texas has extended to ANYONE.  Texas does what is best for Texas.  There's nothing wrong with that.

[94CougarGrad]

The Aggies are about to tip the dominoes again.  I don't blame them, I just wish this had all gone down last year so it was done with.

Kinda how I feel. If an SEC move is good for the Aggies, I'm cool with it. It's the whole "will the Big XII-II survive in the long run" thing that gets tedious.

On a related note, if anyone would be so inclined to comment on the following, I'd be interested to read it. This is something I have never heard before, and haven't heard since. Don't laugh at me if you think it sounds outlandish, because I purely don't know anything about all the intricacies and politics behind college conference alignment.

Last season at one of our UH tailgates, I spoke with a pal who is an Aggie alum who later graduated with a master's from UH. He told me that some years ago (I'm almost positive he said it happened when the SWC was folding), A&M had a deal in hand to move to the SEC and take Houston with them. He said the reason it didn't happen is because somebody (the state legislature?) told the Ags that if they made the move, they would forfeit their share of the education fund that they split 2/3-1/3 (or whatever the percentage is) with UT. A&M couldn't lose the funding, so they nixed the move and joined the Big XII.

[Ron Brand]

Likely not.  And I'm curious to know what you think the good will offers are that Texas has extended to ANYONE.  Texas does what is best for Texas.  There's nothing wrong with that.

50% and 40% of what became the Longhorn Network is pretty good faith to me. A&M did absolutely nothing to earn either offer but it was extended to them nonetheless.

[Ron Brand]

Last season at one of our UH tailgates, I spoke with a pal who is an Aggie alum who later graduated with a master's from UH. He told me that some years ago (I'm almost positive he said it happened when the SWC was folding), A&M had a deal in hand to move to the SEC and take Houston with them. He said the reason it didn't happen is because somebody (the state legislature?) told the Ags that if they made the move, they would forfeit their share of the education fund that they split 2/3-1/3 (or whatever the percentage is) with UT. A&M couldn't lose the funding, so they nixed the move and joined the Big XII.

That was pretty much the common idea when the Governor was not an Aggie and the fight for PUF funds was nonexistent. It's different now.

[Andyzipp]

50% and 40% of what became the Longhorn Network is pretty good faith to me. A&M did absolutely nothing to earn either offer but it was extended to them nonetheless.

Point taken, but without knowing the exact particulars of the offers, it's hard for me to imagine that Dodds/Powers/Texas was doing anything out of the kindness of their hearts for A&M.  The idea that A&M rejected both offers (one that is claimed to be after ESPN made it a very viable idea) leads me to believe that something else didn't smell right to the A&M leadership.

On the other hand I wouldn't expect either side to ever completely trust the other.  College athletics is a business, and rarely do you see businesses helping out their competitors.

[Ron Brand]

Point taken, but without knowing the exact particulars of the offers, it's hard for me to imagine that Dodds/Powers/Texas was doing anything out of the kindness of their hearts for A&M.  The idea that A&M rejected both offers (one that is claimed to be after ESPN made it a very viable idea) leads me to believe that something else didn't smell right to the A&M leadership.

On the other hand I wouldn't expect either side to ever completely trust the other.  College athletics is a business, and rarely do you see businesses helping out their competitors.

Doesn't really matter. A&M will never be Texas, no matter how much it wants to be. Texas will always be the big brother that pisses off a little brother by trying to lead in what it thinks is its best direction. A&M knows it will always be the little brother in this system and if they are convinced that it's better to be the 7th or 8th little brother in a different house, then go for it. But don't expect to be welcomed back to that other house for Thanksgiving dinner anytime soon.

Besides, putting an end to the rivalry will only make it that much larger when they pick it back up in 2020 or whatever.

[MusicMan]

I have no idea who these guys are:

UPDATE IV:  Lots of rumors out there that we cannot confirm right now.  They range from the Alabama AD Mal Moore restructuring their 2012 football schedule with Texas A&M included to Baylor looking for places to land.  Nothing we can substantiate right now, and it may be impossible to confirm some of this.  If you hear similar stories, though, let us know.

[Jacksonian]

I have no idea who these guys are:

LSU's schedule for 12-13 online has been torn up.  It only includes non-conference games and their annual Friday after Thanksgiving game with Arkansas on CBS.  All conference schedules beyond that have been torn up as well.

[Andyzipp]

Doesn't really matter. A&M will never be Texas, no matter how much it wants to be. Texas will always be the big brother that pisses off a little brother by trying to lead in what it thinks is its best direction. A&M knows it will always be the little brother in this system and if they are convinced that it's better to be the 7th or 8th little brother in a different house, then go for it. But don't expect to be welcomed back to that other house for Thanksgiving dinner anytime soon.

This attitude is part of why I don't spend a whole heck of a lot of time here anymore.  I'm am trying to have a civil conversation about news that is potentially interesting to a good segment of this board.  I have not denigrated Texas as an institution beyond relaying that A&M may not find them trustworthy.  I have not played up stereotypes beyond poking fun at myself.  That you are able to leap to back insults and threats so quickly is really pretty annoying, and unfortunately typical.

[Ron Brand]

This attitude is part of why I don't spend a whole heck of a lot of time here anymore.  I'm am trying to have a civil conversation about news that is potentially interesting to a good segment of this board.  I have not denigrated Texas as an institution beyond relaying that A&M may not find them trustworthy.  I have not played up stereotypes beyond poking fun at myself.  That you are able to leap to back insults and threats so quickly is really pretty annoying, and unfortunately typical.

Look, maybe you're spending too much time on some other boards where they spew that shit as a matter of course. Maybe I didn't say it the right way. I don't mean to piss you off or offend you. I can see where reading what I wrote in the right kind of tone would make it come off as me goading you, but I assure you I was not intending to.

1. Texas is a larger school than A&M.

2. Texas has had more sustained success in larger sports than A&M has.

3. Texas makes more money off of that success than A&M does.

4. This is pretty much a locked system; it's probably never going to flip in the other direction.

5. If A&M feels that #4 is true, maybe it should explore some options and then weigh them.

6. If A&M is convinced that a different option is the way to go, then they should do that.

7. A&M should expect that there will be some sort of consequences for leaving a conference. Its main rival has already shown how they react when this sort of thing happens and it's not unreasonable to expect that they will try to behave as they have in the past.

To me, using a 'house' and 'big brother / little brother' was an apt metaphor. I'm sorry if it offended you. In my opinion, what I wrote is a long damn way away from insults and threats. If you mean to call that sort of behavior typical of me, then I take issue with that. I work pretty hard to not piss people off on this board because they're all important to me.

I like the board better when you're on it. I'm not a cheap shot artist. But I will absolutely disagree if you think I'm threatening or insulting, certainly as a matter of course. That's wrong.

[EasTexAstro]

POPE FIGHT!

WOOHOO!

[BudGirl]

And sometimes the big brother is just an asshole.

[HudsonHawk]

POPE FIGHT!

WOOHOO!

Which is better than

POOP FIGHT

WOPHOP!

[MusicMan]

POPE FIGHT!

WOOHOO!

My money's on Benedict.

[Ron Brand]

And sometimes the big brother is just an asshole.

No question about it. UT can be tiringly arrogant as hell.

[EasTexAstro]

Which is better than

POOP FIGHT

WOPHOP!

Let me put that on a tee for you, sir. Shall I go chase it down?

[HudsonHawk]

No question about it. UT can be tiringly arrogant as hell.

You mean there are times when they are not?

[Ron Brand]

You mean there are times when they are not?

Maybe while they're asleep, I don't know.

[EasTexAstro]

You mean there are times when they are not?

Didn't they do some nice things in respect to the bonfire tragedy?

(Just saying. I have no lumberjacks in the fight).

[HudsonHawk]

Maybe while they're asleep, I don't know.

UT never sleeps...they're like sharks that way.

[HudsonHawk]

Didn't they do some nice things in respect to the bonfire tragedy?

(Just saying. I have no lumberjacks in the fight).

I'm sure they did.

[BudGirl]

Didn't they do some nice things in respect to the bonfire tragedy?

(Just saying. I have no lumberjacks in the fight).

What does SFA have to do with anything?

[Ron Brand]

UT never sleeps...they're like sharks that way.

Or the Eye of Sauron, keeping a watch for cash.

[HudsonHawk]

What does SFA have to do with anything?

They're lumberjacks, and they're ok...they sleep all night and they work all day...

[EasTexAstro]

What does SFA have to do with anything?

We try to stay neutral, but try to stay relevant.

[MusicMan]

We try to stay neutral, but try to stay relevant.

How Swiss.

[EasTexAstro]

How Swiss.

I'll let you invest in my currency...

[Andyzipp]

Look, maybe you're spending too much time on some other boards where they spew that shit as a matter of course. Maybe I didn't say it the right way. I don't mean to piss you off or offend you. I can see where reading what I wrote in the right kind of tone would make it come off as me goading you, but I assure you I was not intending to.

1. Texas is a larger school than A&M.

2. Texas has had more sustained success in larger sports than A&M has.

3. Texas makes more money off of that success than A&M does.

4. This is pretty much a locked system; it's probably never going to flip in the other direction.

5. If A&M feels that #4 is true, maybe it should explore some options and then weigh them.

6. If A&M is convinced that a different option is the way to go, then they should do that.

7. A&M should expect that there will be some sort of consequences for leaving a conference. Its main rival has already shown how they react when this sort of thing happens and it's not unreasonable to expect that they will try to behave as they have in the past.

To me, using a 'house' and 'big brother / little brother' was an apt metaphor. I'm sorry if it offended you. In my opinion, what I wrote is a long damn way away from insults and threats. If you mean to call that sort of behavior typical of me, then I take issue with that. I work pretty hard to not piss people off on this board because they're all important to me.

I like the board better when you're on it. I'm not a cheap shot artist. But I will absolutely disagree if you think I'm threatening or insulting, certainly as a matter of course. That's wrong.

Let's just say that the verbiage rubbed me the wrong way I've seen it used in far too many negative connotations.  However, I do believe that we see different sides of this issue.  A&M wants to be A&M, not Texas.  If this move is made, this is about A&M doing what is best for A&M, period.  It's not a matter of measuring up to our friends in Austin, because when you look out side that dynamic, comparing A&M to schools who aren't Texas, A&M holds up pretty well.

[Andyzipp]

I'm sure they did.

Of course they did, and very respectfully.  I don't think anyone is expecting that 12 kids dying is a cause for mirth and amusement in Austin.

[EasTexAstro]

comparing A&M to schools who aren't Texas, A&M holds up pretty well.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....

Let's not get personal here.

[Ron Brand]

Let's just say that the verbiage rubbed me the wrong way I've seen it used in far too many negative connotations.  However, I do believe that we see different sides of this issue.  A&M wants to be A&M, not Texas.  If this move is made, this is about A&M doing what is best for A&M, period.  It's not a matter of measuring up to our friends in Austin, because when you look out side that dynamic, comparing A&M to schools who aren't Texas, A&M holds up pretty well.

Fine. I hope I explained my side well enough. I think I have a history on this board of not goading, threatening or insulting people. I'm pretty fucking pissed off that you took it that way and threw it back in my face despite that history.

[HudsonHawk]

Fine. I hope I explained my side well enough. I think I have a history on this board of not goading, threatening or insulting people. I'm pretty fucking pissed off that you took it that way and threw it back in my face despite that history.

Actually, I've heard you have quite the history of goating.  NTTAWWT.

[Ron Brand]

Actually, I've heard you have quite the history of goating.  NTTAWWT.

Baaaaaaaaaa.

[Andyzipp]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....

Let's not get personal here.

Am I supposed to argue his points?

Texas is bigger.  They have 51,195 (5) students.  A&M has 49,129 (7)
Texas does have more sustained success in major college athletics.  In the important sport in the state, Texas is a top 5 program all time.  A&M is a top 20 team all time (based on wins and winning percentage).
Texas is a money making machine.  Especially in the last ten years.  Completely jealous at what Dodds has turned that program into.

[EasTexAstro]

Am I supposed to argue his points?

Texas is bigger.  They have 51,195 (5) students.  A&M has 49,129 (7)
Texas does have more sustained success in major college athletics.  In the important sport in the state, Texas is a top 5 program all time.  A&M is a top 20 team all time (based on wins and winning percentage).
Texas is a money making machine.  Especially in the last ten years.  Completely jealous at what Dodds has turned that program into.

I meant A&M compared with SFA. Just kidding.

[Bench]

I meant A&M compared with SFA. Just kidding.

Let's do Baylor next!

[Andyzipp]

Fine. I hope I explained my side well enough. I think I have a history on this board of not goading, threatening or insulting people. I'm pretty fucking pissed off that you took it that way and threw it back in my face despite that history.

You can't see how someone is supposed to take offense at being referred to as little brother?  Look, I'm not implying or stating that you're goading or threatening me personally, but the general attitude that many Texas alumni and fans that I've spoken to is exactly what you posted, "if you leave, don't expect to be welcome here anymore."  Fuck, we're not all that welcome here now.

[Astroholic]

Let's do Baylor next!

no UH please.  Fing Baylor.

[Ron Brand]

You can't see how someone is supposed to take offense at being referred to as little brother?  Look, I'm not implying or stating that you're goading or threatening me personally, but the general attitude that many Texas alumni and fans that I've spoken to is exactly what you posted, "if you leave, don't expect to be welcome here anymore."  Fuck, we're not all that welcome here now.

That's great. I appreciate the high road taken.

[MusicMan]

Let's do Baylor next!

Baylor's saving themselves.

[Andyzipp]

Baylor's saving themselves.

Have you seen the plans for the BearDome?  It's allsome!

[Ron Brand]

Look, I'm not implying or stating that you're goading or threatening me personally, but the general attitude that many Texas alumni and fans that I've spoken to is exactly what you posted, "if you leave, don't expect to be welcome here anymore."  Fuck, we're not all that welcome here now.

That you are able to leap to back insults and threats so quickly is really pretty annoying, and unfortunately typical.

That's personal. And wrong.

[Andyzipp]

That's personal. And wrong.

unfortunate and typical of the attitude that I have encountered, not of you.  And I should have been more specific.

[Ron Brand]

unfortunate and typical of the attitude that I have encountered, not of you.  And I should have been more specific.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Let's tip our hats together.

[MusicMan]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Let's tip our hats together.

You have to raise your pinky while doing so.

[Andyzipp]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Let's tip our hats together.

We don't have to hug, do we?

[Ron Brand]

You have to raise your pinky while doing so.

Is a half-a-Hookem allowed under those circumstances?

[JaneDoe]

We don't have to hug, do we?

I sincerely hope not...the mere thought is well....my brain is melting....

[Ron Brand]

We don't have to hug, do we?

Popes don't hug.

[Lurch]

Popes don't hug.

They touch cones

[austro]

Popes don't hug.

Just the tiniest nod of the mitre. Any more overt expression is unbecoming.

[94CougarGrad]

no UH please.  Fing Baylor.

No, thanks. If I want to read people bitching about UH's woeful inadequacies in the sports and academic arenas, I'll go to another board that I frequent mainly in football season. 'Cause when it ain't football season, there ain't a whole lot to talk about over there, and people just get too damned sensitive about being called "Cougar High" and stuff like that.

[Astroholic]

No, thanks. If I want to read people bitching about UH's woeful inadequacies in the sports and academic arenas, I'll go to another board that I frequent mainly in football season. 'Cause when it ain't football season, there ain't a whole lot to talk about over there, and people just get too damned sensitive about being called "Cougar High" and stuff like that.

Agree, just givn the Baylor crowd the business.

[94CougarGrad]

Agree, just givn the Baylor crowd the business.

Givum hell, dang it.

[NeilT]

Popes don't hug.

There can't be more than one pope.  If two popes are in a room together, they combust.  It's in a bull.  I read it.

I'd hate for my children's children not to grow up despising A&M.

[Phil_in_CS]

I can't say that I have any deep sources, but the feeling I get is:
-A&M stayed in the Big 12 before as there was pressure to stay with Texas.
-No one now thinks Texas will stay in the Big 12 long term, so A&M better look for options.

I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

[94CougarGrad]

This blog says the Aggies ain't goin' anywhere:

http://tinyurl.com/4ylsect

[Rebel Jew]

You can't see how someone is supposed to take offense at being referred to as little brother?  Look, I'm not implying or stating that you're goading or threatening me personally, but the general attitude that many Texas alumni and fans that I've spoken to is exactly what you posted, "if you leave, don't expect to be welcome here anymore."  Fuck, we're not all that welcome here now.

I grew up with the understanding of A&M and UT being equals, with seemingly everybody being either an Aggie or a Longhorn. When I think little brother school, I think Texas State or perhaps even Baylor if you're talking only about athletics. The way I see it, the big problem is that A&M's recent football slide has come at a bad time, when college football is consolidating itself more and more by the year. If this were 20 years ago, we'd very likely be hearing about a true joint TV venture, and it would be Oklahoma that would be pissed.

[JaneDoe]

This blog says the Aggies ain't goin' anywhere:

http://tinyurl.com/4ylsect

It must be true!  I read it on the internet!!

[Andyzipp]

This blog says the Aggies ain't goin' anywhere:

http://tinyurl.com/4ylsect

Key words in that are "for now".  FWIW, the folks I've heard this from are saying 9/1.

[strosrays]

I grew up with the understanding of A&M and UT being equals, with seemingly everybody being either an Aggie or a Longhorn. When I think little brother school, I think Texas State or perhaps even Baylor if you're talking only about athletics. The way I see it, the big problem is that A&M's recent football slide has come at a bad time, when college football is consolidating itself more and more by the year. If this were 20 years ago, we'd very likely be hearing about a true joint TV venture, and it would be Oklahoma that would be pissed.

Is there a rating for partying?  'Cos that would make Texas State look a lot stronger.

[EasTexAstro]

Is there a rating for partying?  'Cos that would make Texas State look a lot stronger.

SFA may enter the discussion, yet.

[strosrays]

SFA may enter the discussion, yet.

My best friend in high school went to SFA.  I can personally testify that they do some serious partying there.  Or at least, they used to.

[EasTexAstro]

My best friend in high school went to SFA.  I can personally testify that they do some serious partying there.  Or at least, they used to.

Vinnie, Vickie, Victor...


I went there, I taught there, I worked there.


Kinda like that thing whats-his-name said, only in East Texan.....

[strosrays]

Vinnie, Vickie, Victor...


I went there, I taught there, I worked there.


Kinda like that thing whats-his-name said, only in East Texan.....

I have been trying to remember the name of the club in Nacogdoches that was the popular college hangout.  I remember it being brick (I think), and close to the main drag.  That's aboiut all I remember.

[JaneDoe]

I have been trying to remember the name of the club in Nacogdoches that was the popular college hangout.  I remember it being brick (I think), and close to the main drag.  That's aboiut all I remember.

Then you must have had a great time...

[BudGirl]

Is there a rating for partying?  'Cos that would make Texas State look a lot stronger.

And they thought changing the name would change the reputation.

And for the record I didn't do anything there I recall being bad.

[Rebel Jew]

And they thought changing the name would change the reputation.

And for the record I didn't do anything there I recall being bad.

I got my teacher certification at Texas State, and my wife and brother-in-laws all went there for their undergrads. I never understood the party school reputation. Seems like just a school for country kids. In fact, a good buddy of mine who's not a country kid got kicked out of there in the mid-90's FOR partying.

[EasTexAstro]

I have been trying to remember the name of the club in Nacogdoches that was the popular college hangout.  I remember it being brick (I think), and close to the main drag.  That's aboiut all I remember.

Crossroads. It's been shut down for a while, now.

[BudGirl]

I got my teacher certification at Texas State, and my wife and brother-in-laws all went there for their undergrads. I never understood the party school reputation. Seems like just a school for country kids. In fact, a good buddy of mine who's not a country kid got kicked out of there in the mid-90's FOR partying.

Rob?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

And they thought changing the name would change the reputation.

And for the record I didn't do anything there I recall being bad.

There's the rub.

[Duke]

I got my teacher certification at Texas State, and my wife and brother-in-laws all went there for their undergrads. I never understood the party school reputation. Seems like just a school for country kids. In fact, a good buddy of mine who's not a country kid got kicked out of there in the mid-90's FOR partying.

Right.  No partying going on in San Marcos.

[BudGirl]

Right.  No partying going on in San Marcos.

Obviously, there is.  Good thing no partying in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, etc....  At least that is the impression many like to make.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Obviously, there is.  Good thing no partying in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, etc....  At least that is the impression many like to make.

Don't lump us all in with the assholes.  That's all I ask.

[Rebel Jew]

Obviously, there is.  Good thing no partying in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, etc....  At least that is the impression many like to make.

I don't know what Southwest Tex was like whenever or however they developed their reputation, but I've never seen anything beyond any other school (certainly not UT), and most of the alumni I've met and people I encountered as a student seemed fairly mild mannered. The only school I've ever seen that had a reputation as a party school and really fulfilled the reputation is Chico State, out here in Chico, California. That school is truly a balls to the wall, drink your heart out at all times, party everywhere culture where the campus police will freely allow open underage drinking and won't do a thing until a fight or vandalism breaks out.

[mrpink]

FWIW, the powers that be made a big crackdown on partying at SWT in 1998.  One student was murdered by a couple of students with baseball bats and another nearly died from alcohol poisoning the same weekend.  Apparently San Marcos didn't appreciate making the national news for that reason.  After that the city developed a task force specifically to deal with underage drinking.  That did a lot to curb the nonsense.  Of course, I was none too happy about it at the time.

[94CougarGrad]

My folks forbade my applying to Sam because it had a rep as a big party school at the time.

Instead, they wanted me to go to Rice, home of Valhalla, Beer Bike, and NOD. If they only knew...

[subnuclear]

Instead, they wanted me to go to Rice, home of Valhalla, Beer Bike, and NOD. If they only knew...

I guess there are people at Rice who are fun, but there were probably more drunks and potheads on my floor at Jester than there were in the entire Rice undergraduate student body.

[subnuclear]

On the flip side, there were more people playing NetTrek in the UT computer science building on Friday night than there were in the entire Rice undergraduate student body.

[94CougarGrad]

On the flip side, there were more people playing NetTrek in the UT computer science building on Friday night than there were in the entire Rice undergraduate student body.

Yeah, I was gonna make a like comment, but you beat me to it.

[Ron Brand]

On the flip side, there were more people playing NetTrek in the UT computer science building on Friday night than there were in the entire Rice undergraduate student body.

Oh man. I had completely forgotten about NetTrek. Wow.

[Bench]

Am I supposed to argue his points?

Texas is bigger.  They have 51,195 (5) students.  A&M has 49,129 (7)
Texas does have more sustained success in major college athletics.  In the important sport in the state, Texas is a top 5 program all time.  A&M is a top 20 team all time (based on wins and winning percentage).
Texas is a money making machine.  Especially in the last ten years.  Completely jealous at what Dodds has turned that program into.

But Forbes says A&M (#178) is better than UT (#185)!

[ybbodeus]

Since this whole conference break-up talk started back up a month or so ago, I started to wonder if A&M might be better off in the SEC, forging a new image based on something other than, "We hate the University of Texas."  {Oh, excuse me, "We hate Texas University."}  I wonder if they're considering that aspect of it at all.  Probably not. 

Sure, it could really be goodbye to Texas University, if Texas decides to dump the game; otherwise, I don't think that song will play very well over in Alabama or Georgia or anywhere else for that matter.  I suspect, "Who gives a fuck?", will be the standard reaction to the lyrics, though that's probably the reaction they get a lot of other places, too.

Athletically, they might have some adjustments to make in terms of football for a short term, but you'd think right off the bat they'd be a serious contender in nearly everything else--from track to golf to baseball to hoops to tennis.  Shoot, in hoops Glenn Cyprien's going to help A&M change the focus from "Baylor cheats," to "A&M cheats." 

Anyway, if A&M thinks about it in terms of where their sports would fit in, I think they'd figure out pretty quickly that they could make a good go of it over there, not just a go.   

[Duke]

Chip Brown on ESPN Austin seems to think the chances are better than 50/50 that aTm bolts on 8/31.  This is supposedly based on converstions he has had with the Aggie board or something.  This could be a good thing for the Ags. They go to a stronger conference and get out of UT's shadow.  I'm hearing the SEC is also courting FSU.  Could be the start of the first super conference which is where I think this is all going eventually.

[Andyzipp]

Since this whole conference break-up talk started back up a month or so ago, I started to wonder if A&M might be better off in the SEC, forging a new image based on something other than, "We hate the University of Texas."  {Oh, excuse me, "We hate Texas University."}  I wonder if they're considering that aspect of it at all.  Probably not. 

Sure, it could really be goodbye to Texas University, if Texas decides to dump the game; otherwise, I don't think that song will play very well over in Alabama or Georgia or anywhere else for that matter.  I suspect, "Who gives a fuck?", will be the standard reaction to the lyrics, though that's probably the reaction they get a lot of other places, too.

Athletically, they might have some adjustments to make in terms of football for a short term, but you'd think right off the bat they'd be a serious contender in nearly everything else--from track to golf to baseball to hoops to tennis.  Shoot, in hoops Glenn Cyprien's going to help A&M change the focus from "Baylor cheats," to "A&M cheats." 

Anyway, if A&M thinks about it in terms of where their sports would fit in, I think they'd figure out pretty quickly that they could make a good go of it over there, not just a go.   

We just hire fathers of kids who we want to play basketball.  Of course John Reese is a pretty good coach...

The verbiage that is being used is along the lines of "we're doing what's best for Texas A&M".  So while Im sure there's a (large) piece of a desire to stick it to Texas, I'm hoping that the impetus is going to a strong, stable conference.  The Big 12 is not that any longer.

[BizidyDizidy]

We just hire fathers of kids who we want to play basketball.  Of course John Reese is a pretty good coach...

The verbiage that is being used is along the lines of "we're doing what's best for Texas A&M".  So while Im sure there's a (large) piece of a desire to stick it to Texas, I'm hoping that the impetus is going to a strong, stable conference.  The Big 12 is not that any longer.

I don't see how anyone could fault A&M for this - the SEC is the premier football conference in the nation, and football is the only sport that really matters at the end of the day. The big 12 at this point ios on life support and only better than the Big East and ACC.

[Andyzipp]

I don't see how anyone could fault A&M for this

Stick around and see after an actual announcement is made.

[strosrays]

Crossroads. It's been shut down for a while, now.

That's it!

Jesus H. Pinetree, did we have some fun in that place.  Left there at some point and went to the studio of the school's radio station(?) or maybe just the station all the kids listened to.  Anyway, another high school friend was the DJ (his HS nickname was "Jellyhead", and he was so proud of it he had his mom stitch it on his jeans. . . ah, the 1970s)  Stumbled in there while he was on the air and I knocked over a whole stack of these 8-track looking things that had all his commercials on them.  Goddamn was he pissed off.  The night just went on after that,  Lufkin was involved somehow, and this girl I was fondling in the back seat who kept telling me she was cousins to the Temples from Temple-Inland.   I wasn't sure what that meant.

[BizidyDizidy]

From twitter:

Texas A&M's entire athletic dept. budget in 2010 was $66.8 million. Texas' PROFIT from football alone was $68 million.

That's before LHN

[strosrays]

I don't know what Southwest Tex was like whenever or however they developed their reputation, but I've never seen anything beyond any other school (certainly not UT), and most of the alumni I've met and people I encountered as a student seemed fairly mild mannered. The only school I've ever seen that had a reputation as a party school and really fulfilled the reputation is Chico State, out here in Chico, California. That school is truly a balls to the wall, drink your heart out at all times, party everywhere culture where the campus police will freely allow open underage drinking and won't do a thing until a fight or vandalism breaks out.

My oldest son starts at Texas State this fall.  I am helping him move in next week.  When he chose the school, I asked him why.  He had a lot of good reasons that mostly had to do with academics and where he'd like to go with his life, etc.  And I was very moved that he had thought it out so thoroughly, and I told him that.  I told him I'd been afraid he chose it because he heard it was a party school.  "Oh yeah, that too," he said.

Turns out 25-30 kids from his high school are going there this fall.  I have wondered what percentage of them chose Texas State at least partly because of the 'party school' reputation.  I am betting it is a high percentage.  I understand the administration not wanting the 'party school' designation, but I think it actually helps them with admissions.

BTW, the party school thing at Southwest was well-established as far back as the 1970s at least, when I was in high school.  We heard it all the time, but in the context of the 1970s, the word was there were plenty of drugs around.  Supposedly the school had been taken over by students literally halfway between UT and whatever was in San Antonio (Trinity?), and somehow a sort of hippie culture had developed.  I am not making any claims for the veracity of these characterizations, but that is what kids in my high school were told and believed, 30+ years ago.

Southwest Texas was supposed to be a druggy party school.  I'd like to know how that got started.

[roadrunner]

(Trinity?)

This might be the most overlooked party school in the state.  Mainly because it's too small for anyone to notice.

[Bench]

This might be the most overlooked party school in the state.  Mainly because it's too small for anyone to notice.

Really?  The only folks I knew who went to Trinity were local commuter students. 

[94CougarGrad]

One of my best friends from high school was a two-sport athlete at Trinity. She told me back then about the strong local Greek community there and its resulting party-ness, which typically spreads across the campus like wildfire.

[BudGirl]

This might be the most overlooked party school in the state.  Mainly because it's too small for anyone to notice.

I wonder if Neil T. knows this.  His kid goes there.

[Navin R Johnson]

Stick around and see after an actual announcement is made.

It will be interesting to see people do everything they can to come up with reasons why a really smart move is dumb. 

But a "bad move" is simply code for "it doesn't do anything to benefit me/us" in college fandom. 

Joining a conference that is better and 100 times more stable is a no brainer. 

[Rebel Jew]

Joining a conference that is better and 100 times more stable is a no brainer. 

big fish/small pond in big 12 vs. small fish/big pond in sec. A&M is the #3 program in the big 12 right now even with its recent struggles, and could win it any given year. in the SEC, A&M would be in the crowded middle of the pack with ole miss, south carolina, arkansas, etc. that and the cultural differences between Texas and the deep south could make the move less than successful.

either way, i get the feeling that college football as we know it is about 5 years or less away from blowing the f up. whether it's a playoff that does it or just this megaconference morass, it's seeming more and more like an inevitability.

[roadrunner]

One of my best friends from high school was a two-sport athlete at Trinity. She told me back then about the strong local Greek community there and its resulting party-ness, which typically spreads across the campus like wildfire.

This is pretty much the reason.  And it's a bunch of wealthy kids from either Houston, Dallas, or the north who have nothing to do in San Antonio but party.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

big fish/small pond in big 12 vs. small fish/big pond in sec. A&M is the #3 program in the big 12 right now even with its recent struggles, and could win it any given year. in the SEC, A&M would be in the crowded middle of the pack with ole miss, south carolina, arkansas, etc. that and the cultural differences between Texas and the deep south could make the move less than successful.

I can see some truth to your first statement. The simple fact is, the common territory between UT and A&M is well worn.  A&M will never up-root what UT had developed within their shared market.  The LHN simply expands on the financial dominance that UT already has over the Big XII.  I don't think that should be the sole reason to leave, but it certainly is enough to start the conversation.    When you start to look at all the benefits of a move to the SEC, despite everyone's prognostications on whether A&M can compete in the SEC, it is far too appealing to dismiss as a purely reactionary move. 

Although, the objections from all the UT folks makes me wonder if they are not somewhat concerned that UT is not quite ready to jump into the "Independent" waters.  And this move by A&M forces that issue. 

This move is a long time in the making, and I hope A&M makes the move.  As for the cultural aspect, I think you would need to spend some time in B/CS before you can make that assessment.  Having spent more than a little time in B/CS, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Florida, I am fairly confident that A&M will fit in quite well. 

either way, i get the feeling that college football as we know it is about 5 years or less away from blowing the f up. whether it's a playoff that does it or just this megaconference morass, it's seeming more and more like an inevitability.

I have no opinion here.  And honestly I don't care enough to consider forming one. 

[Andyzipp]

I can see some truth to your first statement. The simple fact is, the common territory between UT and A&M is well worn.  A&M will never up-root what UT had developed within their shared market.  The LHN simply expands on the financial dominance that UT already has over the Big XII.  I don't think that should be the sole reason to leave, but it certainly is enough to start the conversation.    When you start to look at all the benefits of a move to the SEC, despite everyone's prognostications on whether A&M can compete in the SEC, it is far too appealing to dismiss as a purely reactionary move. 

Although, the objections from all the UT folks makes me wonder if they are not somewhat concerned that UT is not quite ready to jump into the "Independent" waters.  And this move by A&M forces that issue. 

According to Ketch, A&M is easily replaceable, and the Big 9 will be as strong as ever.

[Ebby Calvin]

According to Ketch, A&M is easily replaceable, and the Big 9 will be as strong as ever.

Then he's an idiot.

[Andyzipp]

Then he's an idiot.

This morning, I've been scanning the internets and their various radio offerings...

Houston radio seems to think this is a good idea.  Dallas and Austin think A&M is being silly.

Common talking notes for both the Austin and Dallas conversations (at least what I've been able to catch):
-A&M will struggle to be better than bottom of the SEC
-Monetarily this is at best a lateral move
-A&M is leaving just to spite and/or get out of the shadow of Texas
-A&M is killing 100 years of tradition
-A&M is easily replaceable

Interestingly enough, Bucky Godbolt was supportive of the move, but he was kind of a lone voice this morning.
 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

This morning, I've been scanning the internets and their various radio offerings...

Houston radio seems to think this is a good idea.  Dallas and Austin think A&M is being silly.

Common talking notes for both the Austin and Dallas conversations (at least what I've been able to catch):
-A&M will struggle to be better than bottom of the SEC
-Monetarily this is at best a lateral move
-A&M is leaving just to spite and/or get out of the shadow of Texas
-A&M is killing 100 years of tradition
-A&M is easily replaceable

Interestingly enough, Bucky Godbolt was supportive of the move, but he was kind of a lone voice this morning.
 

Yes... I heard all the abolve last year, when I lived in Austin.  You cannot argue against the perceptions of other people without it turning into a screaming match.

[Ron Brand]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what Ketchum has to say, although he has a lot of fanboys and knows a few people.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this go through, but it may come down to some kind of agreement between ESPN and Rick Perry, which makes me want to do a lot of things, none of them good.

Personally,  I'd be sad to see the divorce but it appears to be what they want so what the hell.

[hostros7]

My oldest son starts at Texas State this fall.  I am helping him move in next week.  When he chose the school, I asked him why.  He had a lot of good reasons that mostly had to do with academics and where he'd like to go with his life, etc.  And I was very moved that he had thought it out so thoroughly, and I told him that.  I told him I'd been afraid he chose it because he heard it was a party school.  "Oh yeah, that too," he said.

Turns out 25-30 kids from his high school are going there this fall.  I have wondered what percentage of them chose Texas State at least partly because of the 'party school' reputation.  I am betting it is a high percentage.  I understand the administration not wanting the 'party school' designation, but I think it actually helps them with admissions.

BTW, the party school thing at Southwest was well-established as far back as the 1970s at least, when I was in high school.  We heard it all the time, but in the context of the 1970s, the word was there were plenty of drugs around.  Supposedly the school had been taken over by students literally halfway between UT and whatever was in San Antonio (Trinity?), and somehow a sort of hippie culture had developed.  I am not making any claims for the veracity of these characterizations, but that is what kids in my high school were told and believed, 30+ years ago.

I'm a good deal younger than you, and, when I think of Texas State, I think of hot, morally loose women.  So, it seems as though your son will be in for a good 4 years. 

[Andyzipp]

I'm a good deal younger than you, and, when I think of Texas State, I think of hot, morally loose women.  So, it seems as though your son will be in for a good 4 years. 

From my brief time as a student in Austin at the dawn of the 90's, I agree with this memory.

[hostros7]

This is pretty much the reason.  And it's a bunch of wealthy kids from either Houston, Dallas, or the north who have nothing to do in San Antonio but party.

A couple high school buddies of mine went to Trinity.  The kids there drink, often to excess, but it's no different from any other college in America.  To designate Trinity a "party school" is a disservice to the term "party school," which I think is often misplaced in the first place.  "Party school" is generally conflated with "big athletic program" or "greek system with loads of cash to throw large parties."  

I haven't been to every school in America, but the places I've been that see kids getting the most f'ed up include UC-Boulder, Washington & Lee, Chico State, Dartmouth, LSU, Penn State, Rollins.  

[roadrunner]

A couple high school buddies of mine went to Trinity.  The kids there drink, often to excess, but it's no different from any other college in America.  To designate Trinity a "party school" is a disservice to the term "party school," which I think is often misplaced in the first place.  "Party school" is generally conflated with "big athletic program" or "greek system with loads of cash to throw large parties."  

I haven't been to every school in America, but the places I've been that see kids getting the most f'ed up include UC-Boulder, Washington & Lee, Chico State, Dartmouth, LSU, Penn State, Rollins.  

Yeah I agree.  I'm just saying it's overlooked because of its size. 

[BudGirl]

I'm a good deal younger than you, and, when I think of Texas State, I think of hot, morally loose women.  So, it seems as though your son will be in for a good 4 years. 

I guess there is some truth to this.  There is a statue of a couple of stallions in front of Derrick Hall of and the saying on campus was that when the first virgin to graduate from SWT the stallions would ride off into the wild (or something like that).

The other saying was that SWT girls had the best legs because of the hills on campus.  I rather liked that one.

Regardless, it is a gorgeous campus (and growing daily), the Taylor-Murphy Building was my favorite building and you can get a good education there.

[Rebel Jew]

I guess there is some truth to this.  There is a statue of a couple of stallions in front of Derrick Hall of and the saying on campus was that when the first virgin to graduate from SWT the stallions would ride off into the wild (or something like that).

The other saying was that SWT girls had the best legs because of the hills on campus.  I rather liked that one.

Regardless, it is a gorgeous campus (and growing daily), the Taylor-Murphy Building was my favorite building and you can get a good education there.

Exactly, it's definitely surprised me how large and beautiful the campus is. Most of all though, I didn't realize how much it seems to be the established go-to school for a lot of country kids. Having spent edumacational and recreational time at both UT and TXState, it's ridiculous to me that anybody wouldn't consider UT to be more of the party school.

[BudGirl]

Exactly, it's definitely surprised me how large and beautiful the campus is. Most of all though, I didn't realize how much it seems to be the established go-to school for a lot of country kids. Having spent edumacational and recreational time at both UT and TXState, it's ridiculous to me that anybody wouldn't consider UT to be more of the party school.

It's close to home, yet not.  I have a lot of family that went/goes there.  A couple went to A&M and one to UT.  The other school attended was UTSA, but they all lived in SA.

[Rebel Jew]

I can see some truth to your first statement. The simple fact is, the common territory between UT and A&M is well worn.  A&M will never up-root what UT had developed within their shared market.  The LHN simply expands on the financial dominance that UT already has over the Big XII.  I don't think that should be the sole reason to leave, but it certainly is enough to start the conversation.    When you start to look at all the benefits of a move to the SEC, despite everyone's prognostications on whether A&M can compete in the SEC, it is far too appealing to dismiss as a purely reactionary move. 

Although, the objections from all the UT folks makes me wonder if they are not somewhat concerned that UT is not quite ready to jump into the "Independent" waters.  And this move by A&M forces that issue. 

This move is a long time in the making, and I hope A&M makes the move.  As for the cultural aspect, I think you would need to spend some time in B/CS before you can make that assessment.  Having spent more than a little time in B/CS, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Florida, I am fairly confident that A&M will fit in quite well. 

I think UT as an independent school could end up being a huge blessing, especially if college football goes to a playoff and the integrity of conferences continues to erode.

As for the cultural issue, I think the bigger problem for A&M is that they'd be trying to make a name on others' home territory. In the state of Texas, half the people are Aggies and so even if the football team goes through a lull and UT is up, A&M is still big news no matter what they do. I don't know how wise it would be to compromise this stature.

[roadrunner]

Exactly, it's definitely surprised me how large and beautiful the campus is. Most of all though, I didn't realize how much it seems to be the established go-to school for a lot of country kids. Having spent edumacational and recreational time at both UT and TXState, it's ridiculous to me that anybody wouldn't consider UT to be more of the party school.

I've always been a big believer in TX State football being a success as they move into D1 due to its location, campus, size, and light academic standards.  I really can't think of why they wouldn't compete in a conference like the WAC.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

As for the cultural issue, I think the bigger problem for A&M is that they'd be trying to make a name on others' home territory. In the state of Texas, half the people are Aggies and so even if the football team goes through a lull and UT is up, A&M is still big news no matter what they do. I don't know how wise it would be to compromise this stature.

I can't help but think this only demonstrates your bias along with most Longhorns/Longhorn fans.  Before changing jobs, I was traveling semi-regularly for work.  From New Hampshire, Ohio, NYC, Florida, California, Arizona, etc...   Inevitably, during the "get to know your client/acct mgr", I would mention that I was a Texas Aggie.  While there is always the possibility of polite small-talk, most knew more about A&M than simple name recognition.  At first I was surprised, then slowly convinced it was not just polite acknowledgement. 

The simple conclusion is, A&M is not necessarily viewed as "the little brother to UT" to those not ingrained in the SWC/Big XII history.

[Rebel Jew]

I can't help but think this only demonstrates your bias along with most Longhorns/Longhorn fans.  Before changing jobs, I was traveling semi-regularly for work.  From New Hampshire, Ohio, NYC, Florida, California, Arizona, etc...   Inevitably, during the "get to know your client/acct mgr", I would mention that I was a Texas Aggie.  While there is always the possibility of polite small-talk, most knew more about A&M than simple name recognition.  At first I was surprised, then slowly convinced it was not just polite acknowledgement. 

The simple conclusion is, A&M is not necessarily viewed as "the little brother to UT" to those not ingrained in the SWC/Big XII history.

I didn't say they're the little brother to UT. What I'm saying is that in the state of Texas it's 1 and 1A, but once you get into dixieland those people aren't going to be impressed by Aggie culture or stature. Texas A&M will be thought of as another Ole Miss, South Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, middle of the pack SEC school.

[Clark in Denver]

I didn't say they're the little brother to UT. What I'm saying is that in the state of Texas it's 1 and 1A, but once you get into dixieland those people aren't going to be impressed by Aggie culture or stature. Texas A&M will be thought of as another Ole Miss, South Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, middle of the pack SEC school.

How is that different than the Big 12? No one in the (former) Big 12 north cares about Aggie culture or stature either.

[Ron Brand]

The simple conclusion is, A&M is not necessarily viewed as "the little brother to UT" to those not ingrained in the SWC/Big XII history.

I think this is true. I think that the 'big brother/little brother' thing is only true with respect to those two conferences because Texas does a lot of the pulling with their economic success. You can call it 1/1A, big dog/little dog, whatever, but Texas brings the bucks and tries to call the shots for that and part of the result is pissing everyone else off.

I think the fans who really buy into the big brother/little brother stuff are idiots. The thin skin of the jackass fans on both sides is exasperating. It's not like A&M is some crappy little school off in the wilderness, it's a good school with a lot of history and it's important to Texas. Hell, I'm married to an Aggie and my daughter is enrolled at A&M. I see all this up close too.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Hell, I'm married to an Aggie and my daughter is enrolled at A&M. I see all this up close too.

And probably put you in a small minority group as well

On a personal note, my wife made me a better person too.  Congratulations!

[EasTexAstro]

On a personal note, my wife made me a better person too.  Congratulations!

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

[Bench]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

Congratulations.  Pretty good for a Lumberjack.

[BudGirl]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

But was it her best decision??

Congrats to you and Jess and may you one day catch up to my mom and dad, they're hitting 49 this year. 

[Ron Brand]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

Congratulations!

[BizidyDizidy]

But was it her best decision??

Congrats to you and Jess and may you one day catch up to my mom and dad, they're hitting 49 this year. 

Catching up can't mean anything good for your parents

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

Congrats!

[Mr. Happy]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

Yep. For me, the third time has been the charm. Best move I ever made. Congratulations! My in-laws celebrated 63 years last sunday.

[Ty in Tampa]

Congrats ETA!

[Jacksonian]

Speaking of great wives: I have been married for 21 years today. Best decision I have ever made.

Congrats!  My 17th is near year's end.

[EasTexAstro]

Wow. Thanks, everyone. Was it her best decision? I think she felt more of a community responsibility to the world to try and fix me. She's still trying.

[strosrays]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what Ketchum has to say, although he has a lot of fanboys and knows a few people.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this go through, but it may come down to some kind of agreement between ESPN and Rick Perry, which makes me want to do a lot of things, none of them good.

Personally,  I'd be sad to see the divorce but it appears to be what they want so what the hell.

I used to work for/with a very big Rick Perry supporter.  He contributed a lot of many to his early goober-natorial campaigns.  I asked him once if he thought Peryy was a smart guy.  His response, verbatim:  Rick Perry is dumb as a box of rocks.

[Ron Brand]

Rick Perry is dumb as a box of rocks.

He really isn't. I knew him quite well when he was a Representative. He was a little light then, but not nearly in the same way as Bush was. Perry is very quick and he can be pretty tough in his stances but I wouldn't even go so far as to call him 'mean,' which a lot of people do. I don't care for his politics at all but he's very good at staying on message and he has excellent political instincts and very good advisors around him.

[chuck]

He really isn't. I knew him quite well when he was a Representative. He was a little light then, but not nearly in the same way as Bush was. Perry is very quick and he can be pretty tough in his stances but I wouldn't even go so far as to call him 'mean,' which a lot of people do. I don't care for his politics at all but he's very good at staying on message and he has excellent political instincts and very good advisors around him.

See? Don't let anyone tell you that there are no benefits to working in an adult book store.

[Lurch]

He really isn't. I knew him quite well when he was a Representative. He was a little light then, but not nearly in the same way as Bush was. Perry is very quick and he can be pretty tough in his stances but I wouldn't even go so far as to call him 'mean,' which a lot of people do. I don't care for his politics at all but he's very good at staying on message and he has excellent political instincts and very good advisors around him.

His A&M transcript isn't pretty.

[subnuclear]

His A&M transcript isn't pretty.

You can get college credit for "algebra" and "plane trigonometry"?

[Ron Brand]

His A&M transcript isn't pretty.

As if that meant anything in politics.

[Jacksonian]

His A&M transcript isn't pretty.

Some of the most intelligent people I know have similar college transcripts.  They reflect effort more than ability.  What he did as a 20 or so year old is meaningless.  I can't say I like him, but this won't influence my opinion of him.

[Guinness]

Some of the most intelligent people I know have similar college transcripts.  They reflect effort more than ability.  What he did as a 20 or so year old is meaningless.  I can't say I like him, but this won't influence my opinion of him.

That's true--I'm the smartest guy here and I didn't even go to college.

[cougar]

A couple high school buddies of mine went to Trinity.  The kids there drink, often to excess, but it's no different from any other college in America.  To designate Trinity a "party school" is a disservice to the term "party school," which I think is often misplaced in the first place.  "Party school" is generally conflated with "big athletic program" or "greek system with loads of cash to throw large parties."  

I haven't been to every school in America, but the places I've been that see kids getting the most f'ed up include UC-Boulder, Washington & Lee, Chico State, Dartmouth, LSU, Penn State, Rollins.  

I see your small Virginia school and raise you another one, Hampden-Sydney.  I went there (for a while, place is DAMN expensive) and everyone is in early stage alcoholism.  Of course, when the nearest town is 10 miles away and goes by the name of Farmville, there's not a lot to do but drink.  Plus they do it in khakis, button downs, and ties so it looks like the dirty underground of a Land's End catologue.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

His A&M transcript isn't pretty.

Hey, he got an "A" in improv. of learning. Is short for improvement or improvisation? Either would bode well for one aspiring politically. As would the "D" in Principles of Economics. 

[geezerdonk]

In years past, SMU was hard to beat as a party school.

[BUWebguy]

I used to work for/with a very big Rick Perry supporter.  ... His response, verbatim:  Rick Perry is dumb as a box of rocks.

So, why did he support him?

[Lurch]

So, why did he support him?

He's a puppet.

[BUWebguy]

Texas Legislature about to get involved:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/08/12/texas-am-sec/
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/08/12/3286361/legislature-getting-involved-in.html
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1251051

Branch's full quotes in the OB piece are interesting.

[Lurch]

Can one of you lawyer types explain this section of the ob post?

"SEC commissioner Mike Slive will be invited, and members of the committee have indicated they'd like to know when discussions between Texas A&M and the SEC were initiated, and by whom, to determine if there may be any tortious interference with a contract between Texas A&M and the Big 12's television partners."

[Ron Brand]

Can one of you lawyer types explain this section of the ob post?

"SEC commissioner Mike Slive will be invited, and members of the committee have indicated they'd like to know when discussions between Texas A&M and the SEC were initiated, and by whom, to determine if there may be any tortious interference with a contract between Texas A&M and the Big 12's television partners."

Is this Baylor making a move?

[Andyzipp]

Can one of you lawyer types explain this section of the ob post?

"SEC commissioner Mike Slive will be invited, and members of the committee have indicated they'd like to know when discussions between Texas A&M and the SEC were initiated, and by whom, to determine if there may be any tortious interference with a contract between Texas A&M and the Big 12's television partners."

Slive has no reason to appear or respond to this committee.  An announcement will be made (pending BOR approval) before this committee meeting.  From someone I trust...

I sent them an email earlier asking if there was any way for them to get their hands on some kind of agenda for next week's Higher Education Committee meeting, and to let the committee members know that I think its irresponsible for them to be spending taxpayer money trying to block a university's athletic conference affiliation. My rep's assistant made a call up to Branch's office for me, and just provided me with the following tidbits:

- Branch said that this is not a meeting where anything can be decided; they only want all of the facts out in the open (I don't believe these are his true intentions, but this is what I was told)

- Branch said that going to the SEC is an A&M BOR decision, not his committee's decision

- She then went on to tell me that the SEC presidents and commissioner are getting together on Sunday to vote on whether or not to offer Texas A&M a spot in the SEC (which yes, we now already know that)

- Finally, she said that if the SEC does vote in favor of extending an offer to the Aggies, she's heard that the TAMU BOR will announce an emergency meeting (only needing to give 24 hours notice) for Monday afternoon/evening, and will vote on accepting the offer at that time

Once again, this info just came out of the mouth of my state rep's assistant, and some of it has been proven accurate (the Sunday SEC meeting for example).

More interestingly, Dan Beebe missed some of his speaking notes.  He's quoted in a San Antonio paper as telling A&M, "Texas holds the key to the long-term future of the Big 12, and that the Big 12 would survive without the Aggies."

Supposedly, A&M is pushing Houston as a viable alternative to themselves in the Big 12.

[Ron Brand]

Can one of you lawyer types explain this section of the ob post?

"SEC commissioner Mike Slive will be invited, and members of the committee have indicated they'd like to know when discussions between Texas A&M and the SEC were initiated, and by whom, to determine if there may be any tortious interference with a contract between Texas A&M and the Big 12's television partners."

Confirmed, this is Baylor. Ho ho.

[Phil_in_CS]

Zipp's source says if the SEC extends an invite Sunday, the A&M BOR would would an emergency meeting. Actually, the BOR just scheduled a meeting for Monday:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/08/texas-a38m-regents-meeting-big-12-move-sec/1

[Ron Brand]

Zipp's source says if the SEC extends an invite Sunday, the A&M BOR would would an emergency meeting. Actually, the BOR just scheduled a meeting for Monday:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/08/texas-a38m-regents-meeting-big-12-move-sec/1

Yes, to be one day ahead of the Higher Ed Committee meeting. Hilarious.

Sometimes the chess match is really fun to watch.

[roadrunner]

FSU, Clemson, and Mizzou going too apparently.

[BizidyDizidy]

I think just one of those maybe.

Hearing there is a real chance the SEC votes them down - talk about embarrassing...

[Ron Brand]

Should be a really fun next couple of weeks to see how this shakes out.

[94CougarGrad]

Confirmed, this is Baylor. Ho ho.

Of course it's Baylor. {/Cougar sniping}

Supposedly, A&M is pushing Houston as a viable alternative to themselves in the Big 12.

Push all they want, I just don't believe that'll happen. Texas does not see it as an advantage to have us in the Big XII-II or III, and I dunno that we'd have enough backers between the other conference-mates. Tech and Baylor would probably be the only other two who cared at all.

[Andyzipp]

Should be a really fun next couple of weeks to see how this shakes out.

Next couple of days.  SEC meeting today/tomorrow.  A&M BOR teleconference Monday at 3.  A&M press conference Monday at ~5.  Intent is to play a SEC schedule in 2012.

The State Legislature doesn't reconvene until 2013.  A special session can only be called by the Governor.  Any threats to funding would be made by individuals who are up for reelection in 2012.  And since PUF will come up, while there are a lot of them already, it would require a constitutional amendment to get that arrangement altered.

[Andyzipp]

I think just one of those maybe.

Hearing there is a real chance the SEC votes them down - talk about embarrassing...

Slive isn't going to call the meeting without knowing the answer.  I guess anything is possible...

[Ron Brand]

I think this whole legislative involvement is just to try to buy some time for Baylor and Tech to get a plan together,  not for anyone to try to stop A&M.

[Andyzipp]

I think this whole legislative involvement is just to try to buy some time for Baylor and Tech to get a plan together,  not for anyone to try to stop A&M.

Gotcha.  Misunderstood.

[BizidyDizidy]

Apparently presidents are going to ask for assurances that 14th team not going to be in-state (e.g. FSU, clemson, etc.)

[94CougarGrad]

Next couple of days.  SEC meeting today/tomorrow.  A&M BOR teleconference Monday at 3.  A&M press conference Monday at ~5.  Intent is to play a SEC schedule in 2012.

The State Legislature doesn't reconvene until 2013.  A special session can only be called by the Governor.  Any threats to funding would be made by individuals who are up for reelection in 2012.  And since PUF will come up, while there are a lot of them already, it would require a constitutional amendment to get that arrangement altered.

Trying to wrap my brain around this. So if A&M actually moves (provided they get an invite) before the Legislature reconvenes, they can switch conferences and not give up the funding unless they get enough lawmakers to agree to amend the state constitution, which may or may not occur next legislative session?

[roadrunner]

Apparently presidents are going to ask for assurances that 14th team not going to be in-state (e.g. FSU, clemson, etc.)

So that means it has to be UVA, Va Tech, or Mizzou?

[BizidyDizidy]

Well I don't think vote has to be unanimous, so maybe not - just heard that's a potential stumbling block. If they are going to get to 16 eventually, they are going to have to add some in-state schools (unless they get OU/OSU)

[BizidyDizidy]

The interesting thing to me is that if the whole thing moves to superconferences, independent may not be a good alternative.

[Ron Brand]

Trying to wrap my brain around this. So if A&M actually moves (provided they get an invite) before the Legislature reconvenes, they can switch conferences and not give up the funding unless they get enough lawmakers to agree to amend the state constitution, which may or may not occur next legislative session?

They're funded through the next biennium anyway, so the only way that would change would be if they shit all over Rick Perry and the Lege, which isn't going to happen. This might gin up more consensus to break into the PUF, I don't know. Any subsequent funding adjustments would hinge more on Perry and the rage of affected legislators and lobbyists coming together.

[roadrunner]

I'm not crazy about the independent move.  I don't think it's as entertaining as everyone dreams.  Who would want to schedule UT late in the season except for A&M?

And it leaves me completely clueless on what happens with baseball and basketball.  

[hostros7]

I'm not crazy about the independent move.  I don't think it's as entertaining as everyone dreams.  Who would want to schedule UT late in the season except for A&M?

And it leaves me completely clueless on what happens with baseball and basketball.  

I've heard second hand from a UT insider that UT wants to stay in the XII and keep it together.  If that can't be done (I.e. More than ATM leaves) they would look to join another conference, likely the big 10, where an agreement would be structured around revenues from LHN vs. big 10 network.  Independence seems to be the option of last resort.

[Waldo]

I've heard second hand from a UT insider that UT wants to stay in the XII and keep it together.  If that can't be done (I.e. More than ATM leaves) they would look to join another conference, likely the big 10, where an agreement would be structured around revenues from LHN vs. big 10 network.  Independence seems to be the option of last resort.

Deloss has more or less said as much in public.  His stated order of preference:

1.  Keep the Big 12 together
2.  Join another conference (Pac 12/Big 10)
3.  Start a new conference with ND
4.  Go independent

[JRStros]

So that means it has to be UVA, Va Tech, or Mizzou?

or East Carolina!  Argggggggggggg!

[Russe]

Penn Stater here, and I'd love to see Texas join the B1G. The rumor is that Delaney is trying to bring UT, ND, UNC, and Duke in to form our 16-team super-conference, which would be outstanding.

[Lurch]

Penn Stater here, and I'd love to see Texas join the B1G. The rumor is that Delaney is trying to bring UT, ND, UNC, and Duke in to form our 16-team super-conference, which would be outstanding.

I think Jim chimed in last year when we were having the same conversation and pointed out the role baseball plays in UT Athletics.  IIRC, they want no part of a northern conf as that would kill baseball (and track?)

[Russe]

That's understandable, but my question is, would the benefits to the football, basketball, and academic programs be enough to offset any disadvantages to the baseball program? From my outsider's point of view, it just seems like from the football/basketball/academics viewpoint, the B1G is a better fit than the PAC-10.

[BizidyDizidy]

That's understandable, but my question is, would the benefits to the football, basketball, and academic programs be enough to offset any disadvantages to the baseball program? From my outsider's point of view, it just seems like from the football/basketball/academics viewpoint, the B1G is a better fit than the PAC-10.

Why is it a better fit academically?

[Russe]

Why is it a better fit academically?

Well, my thought is that membership in the B1G comes with a membership to the CIC, which is one of the nation's top academic consortia, but if you're talking about individual academics between B1G and PAC-12 schools, it's probably a wash.

[BizidyDizidy]

Well, my thought is that membership in the B1G comes with a membership to the CIC, which is one of the nation's top academic consortia, but if you're talking about individual academics between B1G and PAC-12 schools, it's probably a wash.

Can quibble about that, but either is an upgrade in that sense to Big 12 (or SEC).

[BizidyDizidy]

For example, using probably the most common ranking of world research universities (Shanghai ARWU), here's how the conferences stack up:

Schools in Top 10

Pac12 - 2
Big 10 - 0
Big 12 - 0
SEC - 0

Schools in Top 25

Pac12 - 5
Big 10 - 3
Big 12 - 0
SEC - 0

Schools in top 50

Pac12 - 7
Big 10 - 6
Big 12 - 1
SEC - 0

Schools in top 100

Pac12 - 10 (all but Oregon schools)
Big 10 - 10 (all but Nebraska and Iowa)
Big 12 - 2 (only UT and A&M; only UT if A&M leaves)
SEC - 2 (Vanderbilt and Florida)

If academics matter to conference affiliation, it's a pretty stark difference (but not sure how much they do/should).

[Clark in Denver]

If academics matter to conference affiliation, it's a pretty stark difference (but not sure how much they do/should).

This was a selling point for Colorado to go to the Pac-12. CU is a very research intense university, and the Pac-12 schools have sharing agreements amongst them.

[BizidyDizidy]

Clark - are you a CU guy? I've got a couple of tickets for CU-Stanford I won't be using if you're planning to trek out west.

[MusicMan]

Can quibble about that, but either is an upgrade in that sense to Big 12 (or SEC).

It's not about academic rankings, it's about the research $$$ from the B1G.

[MusicMan]

I think Jim chimed in last year when we were having the same conversation and pointed out the role baseball plays in UT Athletics.  IIRC, they want no part of a northern conf as that would kill baseball (and track?)

Baseball may not have veto power depending on how things shake out.

[Clark in Denver]

Clark - are you a CU guy? I've got a couple of tickets for CU-Stanford I won't be using if you're planning to trek out west.

I am a CU guy and I really want to make the trip out there, but I don't think my work schedule will let me. I am pretty excited about some of the potential road trips being in the PAC-12 now.

[BizidyDizidy]

I am a CU guy and I really want to make the trip out there, but I don't think my work schedule will let me. I am pretty excited about some of the potential road trips being in the PAC-12 now.

Seattle, Portland, LA, Phoenix, and SF are all fun - let me know if you change your mind on the tickets.

[Waldo]

It's not about academic rankings, it's about the research $$$ from the B1G.

FWIW, I've read a few things that say being a member of the CIC doesn't automatically give your school access to more research money.  It's more about just research cooperation, which may lead to better opportunities for more funding when schools pool their resources, but it is not some automatic financial windfall.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It's not about academic rankings, it's about the research $$$ from the B1G.

FIFY

[BizidyDizidy]

RT @schadjoe BREAKING: UF's Bernie Machen statement says no action on A&M; satisfied with present alignment; for now

[BizidyDizidy]

Wow - looks like SEC passed - will be hard to live this one down

[hostros7]

Little cherubs in overalls play violins

[Phil_in_CS]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/texasam/7697196.html

[BizidyDizidy]

Sounds like this may all just be part of the process

[hostros7]

Sounds like this may all just be part of the process

Yeh, twitter leads me to believe this is all cya maneuvers by sec until ATM makes first official move

[Andyzipp]

Yeh, twitter leads me to believe this is all cya maneuvers by sec until ATM makes first official move

Which still should be tomorrow.

[Jose Cruz III]

I, for one, hope you guys keep them. All we need in the SEC is another little brother team with little penis envy.     

[Andyzipp]

I, for one, hope you guys keep them. All we need in the SEC is another little brother team with little penis envy.     

Amazing how little you understand about what you may soon be getting.

[BizidyDizidy]

Still holding out hope to get UT and OU in the PAC, so hope A&M and Mizzou go to SEC

[Jose Cruz III]

Amazing how little you understand about what you may soon be getting.

I will admit I have not much knowledge of Texas A & M. But from all accounts they seem to be a program that wants to be Texas and can't. We already have Auburn.

[hostros7]

. We already have Auburn.

Oh yeah, those shitty sisters of the poor, who wants them?

[Phil_in_CS]

I know it isn't football so it doesn't matter, but A&M finished 8th in the directors cup this year, best in the Big12 and behind only Florida in the SEC.
http://thedirectorscup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/finald1standings10-11-2.pdf

As a local fan, I can't afford football tickets anyway, and I'd enjoy seeing the SEC teams in Men's and Women's BBall and Baseball.

[austro]

As a local fan, I can't afford football tickets anyway, and I'd enjoy seeing the SEC teams in Men's and Women's BBall and Baseball.

And track, if you enjoy that. Florida and LSU have outstanding programs.

[Bench]

A fine analysis of the events over the last few days.

[Andyzipp]

A fine analysis of the events over the last few days.

Asshole!

[MusicMan]

Asshole!

Furk.

[Mr. Happy]

I will admit I have not much knowledge of Texas A & M. But from all accounts they seem to be a program that wants to be Texas and can't. We already have Auburn.

Dude, this makes no sense.

[Mr. Happy]

Amazing how little you understand about what you may soon be getting.

I agree. I'm as pro-SEC as anyone here, but I would love and welcome the Aggies with open arms. This is a first rate institution with a wonderful athletic program. LSU and Texas A&M have a wonderful old rivalry that goes back a long way. I'd love t o see it revived. Bring them on!

[AstroFrog]

Complete speculation on my part.  I assume that TCU would rather be here in a weak-BCS conference than there dealing with the travel and whatnot.  On the other hand, if more than just A&M leaves...I don't think there is a Big 12.

Once Texas goes independent and A&M goes off to chase its SEC dreams, I would love to see TCU join a reconstituted Big 12 with Baylor Tech, the Oklahoma/Kansas schools, etc.  Consider adding Houston, Colorado State, Air Force, and/or BYU to get up to 12 schools and then you can have yourself a time.

I know TCU has no interest in being under UT's thumb, but once UT's God complex sends them independent (or to the AFC South), I think TCU "comes home" in a hurry.

[Waldo]

Once Texas goes independent

Texas is not going independent unless all other options fall through.

[AstroFrog]

Texas is not going independent unless all other options fall through.

The Horns' inability to play well with others has chased off Nebraska, and is about to chase off A&M.  Mizzou is gone at the first opportunity.  Indirectly, it chased off Colorado, who had no specific beef with UT but fled the instability created by Nebraska's departure.

The only thing keeping Oklahoma around is a lack of TV sets and the need to get Texas players in order to be nationally relevant. 

Soon, UT is going to look around soon and see Baylor, Tech, Okie State, K-State, Kansas, Iowa State, and perhaps Houston and Colorado State as its conference mates.  I don't think Texas has invested in its facilities and is creating its own TV network to play that kind of schedule. 

The powers that be at UT have obviously decided that maximizing the revenue potential of their "brand" is a higher consideration than the bonds of conference affiliation and equal revenue sharing.  How can this not be seen as a precursor to independence?

[jbm]

I hear this narrative a lot and wonder if it is true.  How did UT chase off Nebraska and A&M? 

[MRaup]

I hear this narrative a lot and wonder if it is true.  How did UT chase off Nebraska and A&M? 

Saying that UT chased off Nebraska is laughable at best.

[Andyzipp]

Saying that UT chased off Nebraska is laughable at best.

As far as A&M, I'm sure it's semantics, but the A&M AD, BOR and President are not confident that the Big 12 is a viable long term solution.  Why they feel that way (Longhorn Network, only 10 member schools, lack of championship game, Dan Beebe etc.) is speculation.  But this isn't about Texas running A&M off, just like it wasn't about Texas running Nebraska or Colorado off.

[MusicMan]

Indirectly, it chased off Colorado, who had no specific beef with UT but fled the instability created by Nebraska's departure.

This is woefully misinformed.

[Clark in Denver]

Colorado had its foot out the door long before Nebraska announced they were going to the Big 10.

[Andyzipp]

Why is it not possible that three schools (Nebraska, Colorado and A&M) just found what they think is a better situation for their programs?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Why is it not possible that three schools (Nebraska, Colorado and A&M) just found what they think is a better situation for their programs?

Because it has to be about their big brother (UT), that's why. 

[Clark in Denver]

Why is it not possible that three schools (Nebraska, Colorado and A&M) just found what they think is a better situation for their programs?

Colorado was unhappy about some things in the Big 12, but the main driver was the alumni base on the west coast.

[MusicMan]

Colorado was unhappy about some things in the Big 12, but the main driver was the alumni base on the west coast.

DODDS AND BEBEE AND ESPN PUSHED ALL OF COLORADO'S FANS TO THE WEST COAST AS PART OF THEIR MASTER PLAN!

[Waldo]

Wasn't CU's athletic department starved for cash as well?  They wanted the bigger Pac TV contract.

[Clark in Denver]

Wasn't CU's athletic department starved for cash as well?  They wanted the bigger Pac TV contract.

Yes, and the equal distribution of tv revenues was also a draw.

They are hoping the larger alumni base on the west coast being able to attend games will lead to higher donation levels. I think this played a larger factor than the tv contract. I think everyone was pleasantly surprised with the tv contract they were able to get.

[Phil_in_CS]

I thought this odd 3 weeks ago, and it is laughable now:
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/44253/beebe-aggies-wanting-sec-arent-majority

It may or may not happen, but to say Aggies aren't wanting to move is silly.

[BUWebguy]

I thought this odd 3 weeks ago, and it is laughable now:
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/44253/beebe-aggies-wanting-sec-arent-majority

It may or may not happen, but to say Aggies aren't wanting to move is silly.

I've heard there's some age split among those wanting to go (younger alums want SEC, older [wealthier?] ones not so eager). Any truth to that?

[Phil_in_CS]

I've heard there's some age split among those wanting to go (younger alums want SEC, older [wealthier?] ones not so eager). Any truth to that?

Not that I hear. There was a 'stay with Texas' concept before, but most are now convinced Texas doesn't feel that way in return and will split as soon as they find the right deal. If Texas is gone, there's no point in staying, so you ought to get a good deal for yourself as soon as you can.

For what it's worth, the AD and his main assistant are both at the Board of Regents today; that is extremely unusual. Meeting is in progress.

[Andyzipp]

Not that I hear. There was a 'stay with Texas' concept before, but most are now convinced Texas doesn't feel that way in return and will split as soon as they find the right deal. If Texas is gone, there's no point in staying, so you ought to get a good deal for yourself as soon as you can.

For what it's worth, the AD and his main assistant are both at the Board of Regents today; that is extremely unusual. Meeting is in progress.

And President Bowtie...which is not so unusual.  He is scheduled to address the media at 4 or so.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I thought this odd 3 weeks ago, and it is laughable now:
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/44253/beebe-aggies-wanting-sec-arent-majority

It may or may not happen, but to say Aggies aren't wanting to move is silly.

I read and thought the same.  I think the evidence that Beebe has his head in the sand has reach irrefutable levels.

[BudGirl]

Not that I hear. There was a 'stay with Texas' concept before, but most are now convinced Texas doesn't feel that way in return and will split as soon as they find the right deal. If Texas is gone, there's no point in staying, so you ought to get a good deal for yourself as soon as you can.

For what it's worth, the AD and his main assistant are both at the Board of Regents today; that is extremely unusual. Meeting is in progress.

You really find it odd for the AD to be at a BOR meeting?  I don't.

[Andyzipp]

You really find it odd for the AD to be at a BOR meeting?  I don't.

Bill Byrne may offer his opinions, and even have tried to put up roadblocks last summer, but he has zero say in the matter.  That statement doesn't reflect the job he's done, or how much he's valued in College Station, but is simply the fact that this decision is above his pay grade.

[Phil_in_CS]

You really find it odd for the AD to be at a BOR meeting?  I don't.

Local TV is live blogging it; they said it was usual for him to be there in person. Only one regent is there in person, for that matter - the rest is a teleconference.

[BudGirl]

AD does mean Athletic Director right?  Why wouldn't he be at a BOR meeting?  Especially when discussing Athletic issues.  ie. Coach's contracts, which were discussed at the July meeting. 

I'm only saying two things, 1) ADs are at meetings if there are Athletic issues, which there obviously are (contracts, property for facilities, etc.) and 2) the conference issue is on the agenda for the meeting, so the AD is definitely going to be at the meeting.

Just doesn't shock me, even if the decision is not his to make.  He will report on the matter though.

[Andyzipp]

Latest chess move...

The Higher Education Committee has postponed their meeting originally scheduled for tomorrow.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 15, 2011 512-463-0367

STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN DAN BRANCH REGARDING POSTPONEMENT OF HEARING TO DISCUSS COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC CONFERENCE REALIGNMENTS
“The August 16, 2010 hearing of the House Higher Education Committee on collegiate athletics has been postponed.
“Yesterday, Dr. Bernie Machen, on behalf of the Southeastern Conference Presidents and Chancellors, stated that the member institutions have, at least for the time being, reaffirmed their satisfaction with the „present 12 institutional alignment‟.
"While events may continue to evolve in the coming weeks, at this time, there is no immediate need to evaluate the merits of an athletic conference reconfiguration involving Texas A&M University and, potentially, other Texas public universities. If the current situation changes, our Committee is prepared to convene.
“The hearing was scheduled to allow a broader public evaluation of the merits of pending athletic conference reconfigurations, to provide more transparency to our citizens and taxpayers, and to encourage an outcome that best serves the state of Texas. The Committee's intent was to be responsive to a pending reconfiguration involving major public institutions of higher learning with wide-ranging implications; not to micro-manage individual university decisions or to presuppose a certain outcome.
"As many of us have worked long hours over the last several days, I appreciate the spirit of cooperation and many efforts of our university leaders and regents affected by the recent events, especially those by the leaders of Texas A&M University. Texas A&M is one of Texas‟s finest public universities. It is a Tier One national research university of the highest order, steeped in historic and innovative traditions, both in the classroom and on the athletic field. Whatever her bright future holds, we all want an outcome that is in her best interest, the best interest of our other outstanding universities, and the best interest of all Texans.”
###

[Andyzipp]

AD does mean Athletic Director right?  Why wouldn't he be at a BOR meeting?  Especially when discussing Athletic issues.  ie. Coach's contracts, which were discussed at the July meeting. 

I'm only saying two things, 1) ADs are at meetings if there are Athletic issues, which there obviously are (contracts, property for facilities, etc.) and 2) the conference issue is on the agenda for the meeting, so the AD is definitely going to be at the meeting.

Just doesn't shock me, even if the decision is not his to make.  He will report on the matter though.

There is zero discussion "officially".  The BOR agenda item (number 15 on the list) is to give President Loftin the authority to leave the Big 12.

[BudGirl]

In addition, all meetings and agenda items are required by law to be posted online.  You can find them on any univeristy system website.

[Phil_in_CS]

In addition, all meetings and agenda items are required by law to be posted online.  You can find them on any univeristy system website.

Yes. There's also the small matter of who the new chancellor will be on the agenda.

[BudGirl]

I know way more about BOR meeting and committee meetings than I want.

[Phil_in_CS]

Yes. There's also the small matter of who the new chancellor will be on the agenda.

John Sharp being the lone finalist

[Phil_in_CS]

... and Loftin is authorized to change conferences as he sees fit.

[Andyzipp]

... and Loftin is authorized to change conferences as he sees fit.

Also, the postponement has now been re-categorized as a cancellation.  Branch now feels there's no benefit (for him, politically) to holding the meeting. 

[MusicMan]

Also, the postponement has now been re-categorized as a cancellation.  Branch now feels there's no benefit (for him, politically) to holding the meeting. 

I'm shocked to find a politician blowing with the breeze.

[Andyzipp]

I'm shocked to find a politician blowing with the breeze.

It is quite the odd turn.

Now on to the legal maneuvering.  According to Baylor Perryman, the State of Texas will lose...1 BEELLION dollars if A&M is allowed to leave the conference.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&&note_id=244156392285574&id=118092611546917

[Lurch]

Also, the postponement has now been re-categorized as a cancellation.  Branch now feels there's no benefit (for him, politically) to holding the meeting.  

Leila Rahimi
 by ranriggs

Official word from Dan Branch's office to me was the meeting is "postponed." They say there's no option on House website for "postponed".

Apparently our ability to govern is limited by how many options are in the drop down menu on the state's website.

[ybbodeus]

or East Carolina!  Argggggggggggg!

Or West Virginia.

[JRStros]

Or West Virginia.

Yeah, that makes more sense and balances the SEC divisions with A&M in the West and WVU in the East.  But a man can still dream.

[ybbodeus]

I hear ya.  It's just that it would be a clean break in terms of legislative matters.  Only school in state.  No interference from Marshall, for example, who resides with your Pirates in CUSA.  Good support, strong programs, heavy following in Pittsburgh, a solid tv market in Big 10 country.  Won't have anyone fighting to keep them nor to keep them out, I wouldn't think.  Kentrucky might not be wild about having them, but Huggins and Calipari are best friends.

[Lurch]

Good blog post on BC

[ybbodeus]

thanks, Lurch.

[JRStros]

I hear ya.  It's just that it would be a clean break in terms of legislative matters.  Only school in state.  No interference from Marshall, for example, who resides with your Pirates in CUSA.  Good support, strong programs, heavy following in Pittsburgh, a solid tv market in Big 10 country.  Won't have anyone fighting to keep them nor to keep them out, I wouldn't think.  Kentrucky might not be wild about having them, but Huggins and Calipari are best friends.

OK, here's our best man, showing our best hand, putting it out there today, for the SEC and anyone else to contemplate, we need out of C-USA:

http://www.ecu.edu/undaunted/

and now I'm done hijacking this thread on behalf of the Pirates.

[BudGirl]

OK, here's our best man, showing our best hand, putting it out there today, for the SEC and anyone else to contemplate, we need out of C-USA:

http://www.ecu.edu/undaunted/

and now I'm done hijacking this thread on behalf of the Pirates.

apparently all schools in C-USA want out.

[NeilT]

You really find it odd for the AD to be at a BOR meeting?  I don't.

Yeah, well what would you know about it.

[Bench]

Tweet

@billyliucci Billy Liucci
Breaking: Texas A&M sends official notice to Dan Beebe and Big 12 that they will explore conference options. And so it begins...

[Andyzipp]

Tweet

@billyliucci Billy Liucci
Breaking: Texas A&M sends official notice to Dan Beebe and Big 12 that they will explore conference options. And so it begins...

FWIW, his write-up about it.

http://v4.texags.com/Stories/2741

[Bench]

FWIW, his write-up about it.

http://v4.texags.com/Stories/2741

Thanks.  And now I'm noticing why that was on my twitter feed at all.

So... scooped the scoop?

[MusicMan]

Texas was a friend, yeah
Texas was a good friend of mine
But lately something’s changed that ain’t hard to define
Texas got itself a network, Aggies can’t get no air time

And recruits are watching it big time
And ESPN is showering UT with money, I know it
Yeah, ESPN is holding DeLoss in their arms
Late, late at night

You know I wish I had the SEC
I wish we were in the SEC
How else can the Aggies get a BCS shot?!

[Duke]

I heard Hal Ketchum on the radio saying that when aTm leaves that the Horns will try to replace the Turkey Day game with ND.

[Phil_in_CS]

I heard Hal Ketchum on the radio saying that when aTm leaves that the Horns will try to replace the Turkey Day game with ND.

That would be sad but I'm sure the Powers That Be have that factored in already. Big12 TV contract says $20/mil year, but doesn't guarantee it. SEC is $28/mil year. There isn't a whole lot going on besides that.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I heard Hal Ketchum on the radio saying that when aTm leaves that the Horns will try to replace the Turkey Day game with ND.

Hal or Geoff Ketchum?

[Ron Brand]

Hal or Geoff Ketchum?

DENNN-NNNIS!!!

[Duke]

Hal or Geoff Ketchum?

Geoff.  Hal would be nicer to listen to.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

DENNN-NNNIS!!!

That would be Hank Ketcham, sir.

[Andyzipp]

I heard Hal Ketchum on the radio saying that when aTm leaves that the Horns will try to replace the Turkey Day game with ND.

It'll be interesting to see.  ND has alternating year agreements with USC and Stanford around that week until 2019 from what I've been able to tell.  I'm sure money can change that equation though.

[austro]

It'll be interesting to see.  ND has alternating year agreements with USC and Stanford around that week until 2019 from what I've been able to tell.  I'm sure money can change that equation though.

Maybe with Stanford, but it's hard to imagine UT muscling USC out of the way.

[hostros7]

It'll be interesting to see.  ND has alternating year agreements with USC and Stanford around that week until 2019 from what I've been able to tell.  I'm sure money can change that equation though.

Wouldnt espn prefer a match up that could always air on espn or abc?  With ND, they would at best split with NBC.

[Duke]

It'll be interesting to see.  ND has alternating year agreements with USC and Stanford around that week until 2019 from what I've been able to tell.  I'm sure money can change that equation though.

Texas has already scheduled ND in 2015.  I bet they can make this happen.

[BizidyDizidy]

Memory a little hazy but I think ND has insisted on that date - we'd rather finish with Big Game

[Duke]

Memory a little hazy but I think ND has insisted on that date - we'd rather finish with Big Game

2015 and 2016 ND v UT are the first games of the season.  Turkey day would be ideal.

[JaneDoe]

I heard Hal Ketchum on the radio saying that when aTm leaves that the Horns will try to replace the Turkey Day game with ND.

This sucks....no Cowboys and Indians, and now no UT and ATM??

[ybbodeus]

That would be sad but I'm sure the Powers That Be have that factored in already. Big12 TV contract says $20/mil year, but doesn't guarantee it. SEC is $28/mil year. There isn't a whole lot going on besides that.

Just curious where you're getting the $28 MM.  I believe the revenue sharing plan from tv, bowls, league tournaments/championships & ncaa tourneys put it around $18 MM per school, per reports released back in the spring.   Adding A&M drops that to less than $17MM. 

I don't think it's about the money for A&M, though; if it were, they'd stay, because the exit fee issue is going to hurt their margin, too, initially anyway but significantly nevertheless.  It'll take a few years to recoup it.

[Andyzipp]

Just curious where you're getting the $28 MM.  I believe the revenue sharing plan from tv, bowls, league tournaments/championships & ncaa tourneys put it around $18 MM per school, per reports released back in the spring.   Adding A&M drops that to less than $17MM. 

I don't think it's about the money for A&M, though; if it were, they'd stay, because the exit fee issue is going to hurt their margin, too, initially anyway but significantly nevertheless.  It'll take a few years to recoup it.

The 28MM is an internet number based on a presumed renegotiation of the SEC tv deals.  The conference has the right to renogtiate with 2+ new teams and a right for a relook with the addition of 1.

[ybbodeus]

Thanks.

[ybbodeus]

Andy, are you seeing the reports that CBS & ESPN are stating that the addition of TAMU doesn't open up their two year old contract for renegotiation?  I presume they're posturing by saying they already get a ton of Houston tv sets compliments of LSU, as well as bunch of Dallas tv sets because of Arkansas.  Throw in that ours is a college football crazy state to begin with, and I suppose they could make a case that the incremental growth isn't all that hot.  I think that's bunk, but it's good positioning nevertheless. 

Presuming there is one, does the renegotiation clause take effect if a second expansion team (a 14th team) is identified, invited and accepted?  Until that happens, I fear this thing could drag on a little longer, much to the negative for the Big 12's plans going forward.

[Andyzipp]

Andy, are you seeing the reports that CBS & ESPN are stating that the addition of TAMU doesn't open up their two year old contract for renegotiation?  I presume they're posturing by saying they already get a ton of Houston tv sets compliments of LSU, as well as bunch of Dallas tv sets because of Arkansas.  Throw in that ours is a college football crazy state to begin with, and I suppose they could make a case that the incremental growth isn't all that hot.  I think that's bunk, but it's good positioning nevertheless. 

Presuming there is one, does the renegotiation clause take effect if a second expansion team (a 14th team) is identified, invited and accepted?  Until that happens, I fear this thing could drag on a little longer, much to the negative for the Big 12's plans going forward.

Everything I've heard indicates that A&M will be accepted into the SEC next week, and the SEC will have 13 members in 2012.  Unless something dramatic happens, the 14th team will begin play in 2013.

[Phil_in_CS]

press release from TAMU
http://www.tamu.edu/athletics/conferenceChange.html

[roadrunner]

Does the BCS require a conference to have 10 teams in order to be a BCS conference?

[Lurch]

Does the BCS require a conference to have 10 teams in order to be a BCS conference?

Don't think so.  Bottom of this discusses how to weight a conf with 9 or fewer teams.

[HudsonHawk]

Does the BCS require a conference to have 10 teams in order to be a BCS conference?

No. And all 11 FBS conferences are "BCS conferences". I guess you mean automatically qualifying conferences. The answer is still no. However, a conference still has to accumulate a certain number of rankings points to maintain AQ status.

[Andyzipp]

Does the BCS require a conference to have 10 teams in order to be a BCS conference?

No league with Texas and OU is going to lose its AQ status.

[Lurch]

If Mizzou follows later today, BigXII is probably dead.

[jbm]

I assume the Big 12 is dead anyway, probably was before the Aggie departure.

[Andyzipp]

I assume the Big 12 is dead anyway, probably was before the Aggie departure.

Likely, but you were talking years instead of months.

I still think Texas and OU have enough clout to bring in a couple of schools to keep it going until Texas decides their done with it.  Texas is the straw that stirs the Big 12 (-2)(-1)(-1).

[MusicMan]

Likely, but you were talking years instead of months.

I still think Texas and OU have enough clout to bring in a couple of schools to keep it going until Texas decides their done with it.  Texas is the straw that stirs the Big 12 (-2)(-1)(-1).

It's UT, OU, and whoever will play with them.  If OU bails, all bets are off.

[VirtualBob]

Likely, but you were talking years instead of months.

I still think Texas and OU have enough clout to bring in a couple of schools to keep it going until Texas decides their done with it.  Texas is the straw that stirs the Big 12 (-2)(-1)(-1).

Maybe Texas & OU should just make it The Big Two ... play each other home & home every year and line up a "non-conference" schedule that keeps them both in the big bowls. ??

[MusicMan]

Maybe Texas & OU should just make it The Big Two ... play each other home & home every year and line up a "non-conference" schedule that keeps them both in the big bowls. ??

You laugh, but UT/OU/BYU/ND organizing a sort of independent/conference hybrid is not out of the question.

[Lurch]

You laugh, but UT/OU/BYU/ND organizing a sort of independent/conference hybrid is not out of the question.

They would almost need to since scheduleing non-conf games late in the season must be a nightmare. 

[ybbodeus]

If Mizzou follows later today, BigXII is probably dead.

I think it's when Missouri follows, not if, but I don't see the SEC as its destination.  Missouri still covets the Big 10 conference more than it does any other.

When the SEC picks its 14th team, I think that gets things rolling in earnest.  West Virginia would seem a terrific fit (edit for clarification)for the SEC--gets them into the Pittsburgh market, doesn't upset the power base that the existing teams want to see protected, gives them a new team for each side of the divide, and no political battles from a jealous fanbase in their state.

[Andyzipp]

I think it's when Missouri follows, not if, but I don't see the SEC as its destination.  Missouri still covets the Big 10 conference more than it does any other.

When the SEC picks its 14th team, I think that gets things rolling in earnest.  West Virginia would seem a terrific fit (edit for clarification)for the SEC--gets them into the Pittsburgh market, doesn't upset the power base that the existing teams want to see protected, gives them a new team for each side of the divide, and no political battles from a jealous fanbase in their state.

While I'm sure that the SEC would like to be a greater presence in the STL and KC markets, I think that you're right...Mizzou to the B1G makes the most sense.  On the other hand, there's a lot of things that don't make sense happening in the world right now.

If a team is coming from the East, it would almost have to be from North Carolina, Virginia or West Virginia.

[VirtualBob]

While I'm sure that the SEC would like to be a greater presence in the STL and KC markets, I think that you're right...Mizzou to the B1G makes the most sense.  On the other hand, there's a lot of things that don't make sense happening in the world right now.

If a team is coming from the East, it would almost have to be from North Carolina, Virginia or West Virginia.

or Virginia Tech.  Or Florida State.

But my money (all $0) is still on West Virginia.

[Andyzipp]

or Virginia Tech.  Or Florida State.

But my money (all $0) is still on West Virginia.

I meant the states, not the colleges...

[ybbodeus]

Mizzou to the B1G makes the most sense.

Did you mean the Big 10 or the notorious B.I.G.?  And could sheep's bladders be employed to prevent this move?  Or was that for the earthquake thread?

[Andyzipp]

Did you mean the Big 10 or the notorious B.I.G.?  And could sheep's bladders be employed to prevent this move?  Or was that for the earthquake thread?

I know nothing about sheep, or their bladders.

[94CougarGrad]

And could sheep's bladders be employed to prevent this move?  Or was that for the earthquake thread?

Only if you fetch a proper shrubbery.

[cougar]

Only if you fetch a proper shrubbery.

How about....  A HERRING!?

[ybbodeus]

Sounds like the Big 12 will be pushin' up the daisies soon.

[Lefty]

Sounds like the Big 12 will be pushin' up the daisies soon.

Inevitable.

[Phil_in_CS]

Sounds like the Big 12 will be pushin' up the daisies soon.

That's the whole reason the Aggies are leaving. They feel the Big 12 is history, and are looking for the best place to land.

[MusicMan]

That's the whole reason the Aggies are leaving. They feel the Big 12 is history, and are looking for the best place to land.

I don't blame them for this.

If Beebe pulls off the BYU/ND/whoever Hail Mary, he's a whole lot more savvy than anyone ever had a right to believe.

[austro]

I don't blame them for this.

If Beebe pulls off the BYU/ND/whoever Hail Mary, he's a whole lot more savvy than anyone ever had a right to believe.

I'll take the under on that. I'm getting the distinct impression that he's a bungler.

[jbm]

As a Texas fan, I hope they just go to the Pac whatever and be done with it.  No ND or BYU addition is nearly as attractive as going to the Pac whatever along with Oklahoma (and possibly others).  Big 10 would also be better than a reconstituted Big 12.

I assume one of these options was always the plan, and the Aggies, for whatever reason felt more at home in the SEC than with these options.  Doesn't make any sense to me, but it is probably a no-brainer to Aggies.  

[BizidyDizidy]

I'll take the under on that. I'm getting the distinct impression that he's a bungler.

It would scare me that he has never done anything but be in administration/NCAA - succesful comissioners seem to have some more impressive experience

Non-NCAA/Administration Experience

Mike Slive - Partner in law firm, founded sports focused legal practice
Larry Scott - President of ATP properties, President of WTA
Jim Delany - okay, pretty similar to Beebe

[BizidyDizidy]

As a Texas fan, I hope they just go to the Pac whatever and be done with it.  No ND or BYU addition is nearly as attractive as going to the Pac whatever along with Oklahoma (and possibly others).  Big 10 would also be better than a reconstituted Big 12.

I assume one of these options was always the plan, and the Aggies, for whatever reason felt more at home in the SEC than with these options.  Doesn't make any sense to me, but it is probably a no-brainer to Aggies.  

I think a Pac-12 with OU, Texas, USC, Oregon + should be strong programs in UCLA, Washington + can they keep it up programs OSU, Stanford, Utah would be on par or better than SEC.

[JimR]

I'll take the under on that. I'm getting the distinct impression that he's a bungler.

Beebee will not do anything. the ND connection is with DeLoss Dodds.

[austro]

Beebee will not do anything. the ND connection is with DeLoss Dodds.

Frankly, if they really want to keep the conference together, I would suggest making Dodds the conference commissioner. I think he's got a far better chance of pulling it off than Beebe does. But I doubt that the other schools would ever believe that Dodds wasn't looking out for UT first.

[JimR]

Frankly, if they really want to keep the conference together, I would suggest making Dodds the conference commissioner. I think he's got a far better chance of pulling it off than Beebe does. But I doubt that the other schools would ever believe that Dodds wasn't looking out for UT first.

i doubt he'd be interested in that, and he knows ND will stay independent in football.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

i doubt he'd be interested in that, and he knows ND will stay independent in football.

Thanks for adding that Jim.  Everything I've seen Dodds' do at Texas leads me to believe he intends to take UT independent.  It seems only logical that UT needs a few years for the LHN to develop agreements with the broadcasters to carry the network.  Given that, UT needs to keep the Big 12 together for the near future.  Once the LHN is totally viable and self sustaining, all bets are off.  If the Big 12 can't be saved, I won't be surprised by a move to the PAC 12.  It's UT's most suitable match. 

OU and OSU may follow UT but I don't know if it is their best option.  T. Boone Pickens seems to have quite a bit of influence at both schools.  So if he starts rumbling about one direction or another, I won't be surprised if that's where both Oklahoma schools end up. 

[Lurch]

Everything I've seen Dodds' do at Texas leads me to believe he intends to take UT independent.

Especially his steadfast insistence that its the last thing he wants to do

[sporadic]

T. Boone Pickens seems to have quite a bit of influence at both schools.  So if he starts rumbling about one direction or another, I won't be surprised if that's where both Oklahoma schools end up. 

I have been told by a friend living in Tulsa that OU ain't going anywhere without OSU, due to the T. Boone factor.  Not sure if he is in the know or not, but it seems to be pretty common thinking north of the Red River.

[Phil_in_CS]

Especially his steadfast insistence that its the last thing he wants to do

Yeah, that sounded like a team owner giving the dreaded "vote of confidence" to a coach or manger who's team performing poorly.

[VirtualBob]

Especially his steadfast insistence that its the last thing he wants to do

Meaning he can retire after he accomplishes it??

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Yeah, that sounded like a team owner giving the dreaded "vote of confidence" to a coach or manger who's team performing poorly.

I started a response and deleted it.  There's no way to explain, persuasively, the distrust I (as an Aggie) have for Deloss Dodds' doing anything that isn't in the best interest of UT.  Do I think he will take UT independent come hell or high water?  Of course not.  He is far too smart to do that.  

As I said, he will work to keep the Big 12 viable until UT no longer needs the conference, i.e. the LHN has major coverage on the various cable network providers.  Once they reach this point, all options are on the table.  I happen to think independent gives them the higher revenue total.

[ybbodeus]

Beebee will not do anything. the ND connection is with DeLoss Dodds.

Correct.  He's pretty much calling the shots on this, and I seriously doubt he lets the Aggies look "right" in the long run by letting the conference break up.  That aside, his interests are UT's first, no doubt, and he'll do what he thinks is best for Texas.  When you're the lead dog, you can't think any other way.

You guys hearing any realistic talk about a BIg East/Big 12 merger, one that keeps Notre Dame in the other sports but doesn't add them for football for five years?

[jbm]

Texas as an independent would suck, IMO. I know I would completely lose interest in college athletics. Suspect I am not representative of the typical fan though.

[Bench]

I know I would completely lose interest in college athletics.

Why? 

[JimR]

Correct.  He's pretty much calling the shots on this, and I seriously doubt he lets the Aggies look "right" in the long run by letting the conference break up.  That aside, his interests are UT's first, no doubt, and he'll do what he thinks is best for Texas.  When you're the lead dog, you can't think any other way.

You guys hearing any realistic talk about a BIg East/Big 12 merger, one that keeps Notre Dame in the other sports but doesn't add them for football for five years?

my one great source is very much his father's son. he says only "we have some interesting options."

[MusicMan]

my one great source is very much his father's son. he says only "we have some interesting options."

We have a shitload of options.  And I trust the people choosing among them.

[Andyzipp]

We have a shitload of options.  And I trust the people choosing among them.

You guys absolutely should with Dodds in charge.

[jbm]

Why? 

Not exactly sure why, just seems kind of boring.  Also, I have always viewed ND as both chickenshit and arrogant and would have the same view of Texas.  Would also prove that there was some merit to the anti-UT, can't-play-well-with-others talk.

[JimR]

Not exactly sure why, just seems kind of boring.  Also, I have always viewed ND as both chickenshit and arrogant and would have the same view of Texas.  Would also prove that there was some merit to the anti-UT, can't-play-well-with-others talk.

to you, maybe.

[Ron Brand]

Tarball.

[Jacksonian]

I think a Pac-12 with OU, Texas, USC, Oregon + should be strong programs in UCLA, Washington + can they keep it up programs OSU, Stanford, Utah would be on par or better than SEC.

My understanding is that Pac-# rules forbid schools to have their own tv network and that their commish is a hard ass about it.

[VirtualBob]

Tarball.

At 18 pages it was way overdue.

[Bench]

Not exactly sure why, just seems kind of boring.  Also, I have always viewed ND as both chickenshit and arrogant and would have the same view of Texas.  Would also prove that there was some merit to the anti-UT, can't-play-well-with-others talk.

I get that you wouldn't be much of a fan of UT, but I don't follow the leap that it would ruin all collegiate athletics for you.  It's that jump that I'm curious about. 

[VirtualBob]

My understanding is that Pac-# rules forbid schools to have their own tv network and that their commish is a hard ass about it.

So a future "Big 12" with UT, BYU & ND all having independent networks and a handful of also-rans who can't land somewhere else might be the outcome?  I don't know if OU has the audience and following to get an independent network, but if it does, that is actually something that might work financially.  ... maybe if they can add SMU & Tulsa they could call themselves the Big $ix.

[jbm]

I get that you wouldn't be much of a fan of UT, but I don't follow the leap that it would ruin all collegiate athletics for you.  It's that jump that I'm curious about. 

Not much of a jump. I'd pretty much lose interest in MLB without the Astros. Did with the NFL when the Oilers left.

[roadrunner]

So a future "Big 12" with UT, BYU & ND all having independent networks and a handful of also-rans who can't land somewhere else might be the outcome?  I don't know if OU has the audience and following to get an independent network, but if it does, that is actually something that might work financially.  ... maybe if they can add SMU & Tulsa they could call themselves the Big $ix.

Apparently OU is working on a network.  An OU/OSU joint network could work if they could figure that out.

[VirtualBob]

Apparently OU is working on a network.  An OU/OSU joint network could work if they could figure that out.

That might work.  So ... the Big 5? Plus Baylor, TTech, Kansases (or should it be Kansae?), Iowa State, Missouri (if the Big however many doesn't relent and let them in) ... Anyone else, or would 10 teams equal XII?

[Andyzipp]

For those that still care, A&M has made formal application to the SEC.  SEC Presidents meeting tonight in Atlanta.  Official Announcement (assuming 9 presidents say yes) tomorrow.

[Jacksonian]

For those that still care, A&M has made formal application to the SEC.  SEC Presidents meeting tonight in Atlanta.  Official Announcement (assuming 9 presidents say yes) tomorrow.

Great for A&M and the SEC.  Sucks for UT.

[Andyzipp]

Great for A&M and the SEC.  Sucks for UT.

Is Texas (with TT, OU, and OSU) to the PAC a real thing?  Can't imagine that's too bad.

This primarily sucks for Baylor.

[Bench]

So are UT and A&M really going to stop playing each other every year?  Or even at all?  I keep hearing that but it seems so silly to me that I dismiss it.

[Clark in Denver]

Is Texas (with TT, OU, and OSU) to the PAC a real thing?  Can't imagine that's too bad.

This primarily sucks for Baylor.

It sounds like a lot of the Pac-12 presidents are pretty happy with the way things are. Now if the SEC and Big Ten look like they are going to go to 16 teams, then the Pac-12 will jump in as well.

CU has come out and said that they really don't want to expand with the potential of being stuck in an Eastern division and losing the annual SoCal trips. (I know, the new guy comes in the door and wants to lock it behind him.) I would imagine that there are some other schools that feel this way as well.

[Jacksonian]

Is Texas (with TT, OU, and OSU) to the PAC a real thing?  Can't imagine that's too bad.

This primarily sucks for Baylor.

Texas would have to significantly alter their TV station to include TT if they were to move to the PAC#.

The issue for Texas to me is that they can no longer tell recruits that they are the premier school in the premier conference in Texas.  A&M can sell themselves as the only Texas school playing in the premier conference in the country.  If you want to stay in Texas and measure yourself against the best in the country there's only one place to go.

[MusicMan]

Is Texas (with TT, OU, and OSU) to the PAC a real thing?  Can't imagine that's too bad.

This primarily sucks for Baylor.

Starting to look like UT's endgame is Pac-16 with some sort of arrangement to share the LHN with Tech.

[Andyzipp]

Texas would have to significantly alter their TV station to include TT if they were to move to the PAC#.

The issue for Texas to me is that they can no longer tell recruits that they are the premier school in the premier conference in Texas.  A&M can sell themselves as the only Texas school playing in the premier conference in the country.  If you want to stay in Texas and measure yourself against the best in the country there's only one place to go.

It's possible I've been beat down by this century, but Texas is always going to be the big school in the state.  I agree that this gives A&M an advantage (if they can win in the SEC), but Texas will be standing tall at the end of this...somehow.

[Lurch]

Texas would have to significantly alter their TV station to include TT if they were to move to the PAC#.

The issue for Texas to me is that they can no longer tell recruits that they are the premier school in the premier conference in Texas.  A&M can sell themselves as the only Texas school playing in the premier conference in the country.  If you want to stay in Texas and measure yourself against the best in the country there's only one place to go.

And if you want to stay in Texas and play for a NC?

[Andyzipp]

And if you want to stay in Texas and play for a NC?

If Texas isn't in an AQ league, that road, while certainly doable, would be much harder, and so the certainty of playing for a MNC becomes less.

[Andyzipp]

So are UT and A&M really going to stop playing each other every year?  Or even at all?  I keep hearing that but it seems so silly to me that I dismiss it.

A&M is very much claiming they would like to continue the series, and have asked the SEC to be left off future league schedules to enable availability for the series to continue.  Texas has been non-committal, at least publicly.  There has also been unsubstantiated grumbling that the State Leg would somehow apply pressure for the two teams to play, but I'm not sure how, exactly they would accomplish that.

[Waldo]

CU has come out and said that they really don't want to expand with the potential of being stuck in an Eastern division and losing the annual SoCal trips. (I know, the new guy comes in the door and wants to lock it behind him.) I would imagine that there are some other schools that feel this way as well.

The "pod" system sounds like it makes a lot of sense for a 16-team league, especially given the geographic concerns of the proposed Pac16.  Divisions consisting of Cal/Stanford/USC/UCLA, UW/WSU/UO/Oregon St., UA/ASU/CU/Utah, and UT/TT/OU/Okie St.  Nine game conference schedule consisting of intradivision games + 2 games against teams from each other division, and rotate interdivision opponents every two years.  I've read that it's not currently allowed under NCAA bylaws, but if 16-team conferences are the future then someone's gotta ask for permission - might as well be the Pac16.

I'm trying to convince myself that the latest UT->ACC rumors are just rumors and/or posturing.  If A&M gets accepted to the SEC and OU/oSu leave for the Pac12 then I would think UT also has to go Pac12, with or without the LHN.

[BizidyDizidy]

The "pod" system sounds like it makes a lot of sense for a 16-team league, especially given the geographic concerns of the proposed Pac16.  Divisions consisting of Cal/Stanford/USC/UCLA, UW/WSU/UO/Oregon St., UA/ASU/CU/Utah, and UT/TT/OU/Okie St.  Nine game conference schedule consisting of intradivision games + 2 games against teams from each other division, and rotate interdivision opponents every two years.  I've read that it's not currently allowed under NCAA bylaws, but if 16-team conferences are the future then someone's gotta ask for permission - might as well be the Pac16.

I'm trying to convince myself that the latest UT->ACC rumors are just rumors and/or posturing.  If A&M gets accepted to the SEC and OU/oSu leave for the Pac12 then I would think UT also has to go Pac12, with or without the LHN.

I've seen this before too, but who plays in the championship game?

[MusicMan]

I'm trying to convince myself that the latest UT->ACC rumors are just rumors and/or posturing.

I have no doubt that they're complete horseshit.

  If A&M gets accepted to the SEC and OU/oSu leave for the Pac12 then I would think UT also has to go Pac12, with or without the LHN.

If they have to give up the LHN, they may open discussions with the B1G before accepting the Pac 16.

[MusicMan]

I've seen this before too, but who plays in the championship game?

The pods are paired up in divisions each year.

[BizidyDizidy]

The pods are paired up in divisions each year.

When you don't play 2 teams in your "division", there's going to be a lot of tiebreakers coming in.

[austro]

The pods are paired up in divisions each year.

I imagine there are some awesome tiebreaker rules.

[Andyzipp]

I've seen this before too, but who plays in the championship game?

I've seen a "4 team/two game bracket" and I've seen a "two highest ranked teams" answer to this question.

[Navin R Johnson]

That pod thing sounds terrible.  16 team conferences seem to be bordering on unmanageable.  12 team conferences are much better for football unless the NCAA decides to expand to 14 game schedules.

[BizidyDizidy]

That pod thing sounds terrible.  16 team conferences seem to be bordering on unmanageable.  12 team conferences are much better for football unless the NCAA decides to expand to 14 game schedules.

I think two eight team divisions with a championship game is fine - play everyone in your division and 2 in the other division. The Pac East schools wouldn't like it as much though because it doesn't guarantee a game in california every year.

[jbm]

That pod thing sounds terrible.  16 team conferences seem to be bordering on unmanageable.  12 team conferences are much better for football unless the NCAA decides to expand to 14 game schedules.

Why is it unmanageable?  The rotating pod idea seems feasible enough.  You'd have a more legit champion year in year out, imo.  

Of course, this idea seems pointless without super-conference winners going to a playoff.  Then, we get mired in the same old debates of the past.  

[austro]

I think two eight team divisions with a championship game is fine - play everyone in your division and 2 in the other division. The Pac East schools wouldn't like it as much though because it doesn't guarantee a game in california every year.

Maybe you divide it up as Pac North and Pac South?

[BizidyDizidy]

Maybe you divide it up as Pac North and Pac South?

The California schools aren't going to go for not playing each other every year (this was an issue even in the Pac-12, solved by having them play every year despite not being in the same division).

[MusicMan]

The California schools aren't going to go for not playing each other every year (this was an issue even in the Pac-12, solved by having them play every year despite not being in the same division).

UCLA-USC-UC-Stanford-UW-WSU-UO-OSU
UA-ASU-CU-Utah-OU-OSU-UT-TTU

Done.

[austro]

UCLA-USC-UC-Stanford-UW-WSU-UO-OSU
UA-ASU-CU-Utah-OU-OSU-UT-TTU

Done.

But if you have a 7+2 arrangement, that means that the members of the Landlocked Division aren't guaranteed a game in California every year, which was one of the premises.

[MusicMan]

But if you have a 7+2 arrangement, that means that the members of the Landlocked Division aren't guaranteed a game in California every year, which was one of the premises.

And the Cali schools aren't guaranteed a game in Texas, either.

You make compromises.

[BizidyDizidy]

UCLA-USC-UC-Stanford-UW-WSU-UO-OSU
UA-ASU-CU-Utah-OU-OSU-UT-TTU

Done.

This is my preference.

[hostros7]

This is my preference.

My guess, completely uninformed, is that UT would not like this alignment.  I think UT would want to play UCLA, Stanford, USC, Cal etc. 
1) it provides the "destination" west coast games for alums
2) it links UT to schools that UT envisions itself in the likeness of

[Clark in Denver]

UCLA-USC-UC-Stanford-UW-WSU-UO-OSU
UA-ASU-CU-Utah-OU-OSU-UT-TTU

Done.

Colorado would not vote for this. The main reason for wanting to go to the Pac-12 was for the alumni base and recruiting on the west coast. They do not want to be lumped in with the members of the old Big 12.

[drew corleone]

I'm intrigued by the pod system.

[Navin R Johnson]

Why is it unmanageable?  The rotating pod idea seems feasible enough.  You'd have a more legit champion year in year out, imo. 

Of course, this idea seems pointless without super-conference winners going to a playoff.  Then, we get mired in the same old debates of the past. 

pre-playoff is what I was referring too.  Look at the pods, 1 has USC, 1 Oregon, 1 has UT and OU, the other has? Utah?  That is gonna lead to some unfair scheduling.  You are also talking about now only playing 3 non-conference games.  That PAC16 is one tough row to hoe if your goal is the MNC game.  Once, if, a 4-8 team playoff replaces the BCS the non-conference game issue doesn't really matter.

[Clark in Denver]

You are also talking about now only playing 3 non-conference games. 

This is currently the case in the Pac-12. Nine conference games, three non-conference.

[MusicMan]

Colorado would not vote for this.

But they would lose that vote.

[Navin R Johnson]

1 other thing about the proposed PAC16, that would be a fantastic road trip conference.  Some great cities in that 16.

[Clark in Denver]

But they would lose that vote.

I'm not so sure.

[drew corleone]

1 other thing about the proposed PAC16, that would be a fantastic road trip conference.  Some great cities in that 16.

Absolutely, and a huge reason why I want this to happen.

I agree completely that one of the four pods is a little more top-heavy, historically, than the others, but that's been the case with the B12 South more often than not in recent years. And who knows what changes lie ahead? If that's what it takes to start the sport toward a playoff system, then so be it, IMO.

For the time being I don't see why you couldn't just take the two best overall records among the 16 for a CCG.

[ybbodeus]

Is Texas (with TT, OU, and OSU) to the PAC a real thing?  Can't imagine that's too bad.

This primarily sucks for Baylor.

Perhaps we'll return to our original mission of sending missionaries to the world versus sending them PIL's, accountants, dentists and girls who suck credit cards.

[Alkie]

girls who suck credit cards.

Baptist chicks.   I swear.

[MusicMan]

Perhaps we'll return to our original mission of sending missionaries to the world versus sending them PIL's, accountants, dentists and girls who suck credit cards.

Fucking accountants.

[Jacksonian]

Fucking accountants.

Wrong kind of missionary.

[Andyzipp]

Statement from Dr. Bernie Machen, Chair, Southeastern Conference Presidents and Chancellors:

After receiving unanimous written assurance from the Big 12 on September 2 that the Southeastern Conference was free to accept Texas A&M to join as a new member, the presidents and chancellors of the SEC met last night with the intention of accepting the application of Texas A&M to be the newest member of the SEC. We were notified yesterday afternoon that at least one Big 12 institution had withdrawn its previous consent and was considering legal action. The SEC has stated that to consider an institution for membership, there must be no contractual hindrances to its departure. The SEC voted unanimously to accept Texas A&M University as a member upon receiving acceptable reconfirmation that the Big 12 and its members have reaffirmed the letter dated September 2, 2011.



And here is that letter...

Dear Mike:

This is to confirm our discussion yesterday during which I informed you that the Big 12 Conference Board of Directors unanimously authorized me to convey to you and their colleagues in the Southeastern Conference that the Big 12 and its members will not take any legal action for any possible claims against the SEC or its members relating to the departure of Texas A&M University from the Big 12 and the admission of Texas A&M into the SEC; provided, however, that such act by the SEC to admit Texas A&M is publicly confirmed by 5:00 p.m. (CDT) on September 8, 2011.

Such admission of Texas A&M will result in the withdrawal of Texas A&M from the Big 12 Conference effective June 30, 2012. We both agreed it is in the best interests of each of our conferences and our member institutions of higher education to waive any and all legal actions by either conference and its members resulting from admission of Texas A&M into the SEC, as long as such admission is confirmed publicly by September 8, 2011.

If any of your presidents and chancellors have concerns about this commitment of the Big 12 Conference, they may contact me or Brady Deaton, Big 12 Board of Director chairman and chancellor of the University of Missouri, Columbia.

Sincerely,

Dan Beebe
Commissioner

[MusicMan]

Does this mean that Ken Starr now controls the realignment of college football?

God help us.

[JimR]

Baptist chicks.   I swear.

Pi Phis

[Ebby Calvin]

I like nearly every Aggie I've ever met, including those on this board, so this isn't meant to be any sort of personal jab.  College football rivalries are meant to be passionate, so what I say below is entirely based on My Team vs Your Team*.  We good?  Good.

FUCK THE AGGIES.  Now get the fuck out of what's left of my conference.



*Cubs fans notwithstanding

[sporadic]

Why is the PAC-whatever a better fit for Texas than the ACC?  The ACC has a lot going for it, I would think, plus an East Coast audience.  It is a great hoops and baseball conference, and the addition of Texas would immediately bolster it as a premier FB conference.  I guess I do not understand why everyone wants to go West so badly...

[Lurch]

I can't imagine why Baylor would sign the waiver.  There's no obvious way this could ever be in their best interest.  Sounds like we're back to status quo

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I can't imagine why Baylor would sign the waiver.  There's no obvious way this could ever be in their best interest.  Sounds like we're back to status quo

Greaaaat.... Now that they no longer have a Governor to give then un-due preference, they use the legal system.  Friggin' Baylor!

[jbm]

Why is the PAC-whatever a better fit for Texas than the ACC?  The ACC has a lot going for it, I would think, plus an East Coast audience.  It is a great hoops and baseball conference, and the addition of Texas would immediately bolster it as a premier FB conference.  I guess I do not understand why everyone wants to go West so badly...

Just speaking for myself, I would like the basketball and baseball of the ACC, but the football seems kind of substandard compared to the pac.  Also, while I can't put my finger on it, looking east instead of west seems intuitively wrong.  

[subnuclear]

Just speaking for myself, I would like the basketball and baseball of the ACC, but the football seems kind of substandard compared to the pac.  Also, while I can't put my finger on it, looking east instead of west seems intuitively wrong.  

Didn't Texas nix the Big-10 deal because of travel? Are things different now or was that not the real reason? 

[JimR]

Didn't Texas nix the Big-10 deal because of travel? Are things different now or was that not the real reason? 

not the real reason. never was even a stated reason. the reason is that the Big 12 stayed together at the 11th hour.

[Andyzipp]

I like nearly every Aggie I've ever met, including those on this board, so this isn't meant to be any sort of personal jab.  College football rivalries are meant to be passionate, so what I say below is entirely based on My Team vs Your Team*.  We good?  Good.

FUCK THE AGGIES.  Now get the fuck out of what's left of my conference.



*Cubs fans notwithstanding

We're trying.  Get your fucking bear off our ankles.

[MusicMan]

We're trying.  Get your fucking bear off our ankles.

We didn't want that bear in the first place, remember?

[Andyzipp]

I can't imagine why Baylor would sign the waiver.  There's no obvious way this could ever be in their best interest.  Sounds like we're back to status quo

Because A&M is leaving the Big 12.  The only way for Baylor to have a life in a AQ conference in 2012 is for the Big 12 to stabilize, and the only way for the Big 12 to stabilize is to concentrate on keeping OU/OSU in the conference.  Baylor may think it's looking out for it's best interests, but the longer the uncertainty exists, the more likely it becomes that OU packs up OSU and leaves.

[Mr. Happy]

Let me be the first to welcome the Aggies to the SEC. Both being A&M universities, the Tigers and the Aggies have had a rich rivalry in the past in both baseball and football, and I look forward to its revival and extension to all other sports.

[Andyzipp]

Let me be the first to welcome the Aggies to the SEC. Both being A&M universities, the Tigers and the Aggies have had a rich rivalry in the past in both baseball and football, and I look forward to its revival and extension to all other sports.

Oh, we're going to stay in the Big12 now.  Baylor has made its point.  Nevermind.

[JackAstro]

Because A&M is leaving the Big 12.  The only way for Baylor to have a life in a AQ conference in 2012 is for the Big 12 to stabilize, and the only way for the Big 12 to stabilize is to concentrate on keeping OU/OSU in the conference.  Baylor may think it's looking out for it's best interests, but the longer the uncertainty exists, the more likely it becomes that OU packs up OSU and leaves.

Still the wisest Aggie on the internet. You will be missed.

/dead to me now

[Andyzipp]

You will be missed.

Like Steve Guttenberg's career...

[Astroholic]

Oh, we're going to stay in the Big12 now.  Baylor has made its point.  Nevermind.

Like Ive said before Fuck Baylor, Ann Richards and Bob Bullocks ghost.  (pissed off UH fan)

[Astroholic]

and how can I forget CAB and RGIII.  mother fucker.

[JimR]

Like Ive said before Fuck Baylor, Ann Richards and Bob Bullocks ghost.  (pissed off UH fan)

do you think they kept UH out of the Big 12? uh, no.

[Astroholic]

do you think they kept UH out of the Big 12? uh, no.

Uh yes.  That is what I think.  That and very poor leadership at UH.  I do think they had something to do with it.

[JimR]

Uh yes.  That is what I think.  That and very poor leadership at UH.  I do think they had something to do with it.

i do not know about the Ags, but UT never would have gone along with that.

[Ron Brand]

Like Ive said before Fuck Baylor, Ann Richards and Bob Bullocks ghost.  (pissed off UH fan)

Richards and Bullock worked to keep Baylor in, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have anything to do with UH at all. UH never had a chance.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

i do not know about the Ags, but UT never would have gone along with that.

Academics?  Over-saturated TV market in Texas?

[Ron Brand]

Academics?  Over-saturated TV market in Texas?

UT has an enormous problem with UH but a big part of them getting left behind is that they had no advocate at all. They were a non-starter because everyone else had powerful, motivated advocates in place.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

UT has an enormous problem with UH ....

I was aware of the lack of an advocate.  What I don't get is this part?  Why is UT's objection, to your knowledge?

[Ron Brand]

I was aware of the lack of an advocate.  What I don't get is this part?  Why is UT's objection, to your knowledge?

That part I do not know. I know it's big and it isn't going away, but I don't know if it's the sum of a lot of little things, or the sum of a few bigger ones, or what. I'd just be guessing, but I don't know the true answer.

[Astroholic]

UT has an enormous problem with UH but a big part of them getting left behind is that they had no advocate at all. They were a non-starter because everyone else had powerful, motivated advocates in place.

Like Richards and Bulloch.  I am well aware UH's flaws both past and present.  I know that Tech and Baylor has many of the same flaws and big 12 money helped with some of those problems (at least for tech).  It has taken many years and good leadership at UH to right the ship.  

Academics--UH is looked at very differently outside of Texas as far as academics are concerned.

[Duke]

  If you want to stay in Texas and measure yourself against the best in the country there's only one place to go.

Not sure I agree with this if you schedule teams like USC, OU, USC, Ohio State and Arkansas as an independent or go to the Pac-16.

[Ron Brand]

Like Richards and Bulloch.  I am well aware UH's flaws both past and present.  I know that Tech and Baylor has many of the same flaws and big 12 money helped with some of those problems (at least for tech).  It has taken many years and good leadership at UH to right the ship.  

Academics--UH is looked at very differently outside of Texas as far as academics are concerned.

Yeah, but Richards and Bullock weren't working against UH, they were working for Baylor and to some degree, Tech. If UH had had a big bopper or two as alums or advocates it might've made a difference. Instead it was a vacuum and they never had a chance, never even entered into the discussion. If Richards and Bullock were, say, aligned with Sul Ross it wouldn't have made any difference to UH because they had no one speaking up for them.

[Astroholic]

That part I do not know. I know it's big and it isn't going away, but I don't know if it's the sum of a lot of little things, or the sum of a few bigger ones, or what. I'd just be guessing, but I don't know the true answer.

Maybe Recruiting the Houston Market?
Maybe, Texas has nothing to gain but everything to lose when playing UH (standings/rankings)?  
 
There is bad blood between UT and UH and I would be shocked if the big 12 stays together and UH is invited.  

[Astroholic]

Yeah, but Richards and Bullock weren't working against UH, they were working for Baylor and to some degree, Tech. If UH had had a big bopper or two as alums or advocates it might've made a difference. Instead it was a vacuum and they never had a chance, never even entered into the discussion. If Richards and Bullock were, say, aligned with Sul Ross it wouldn't have made any difference to UH because they had no one speaking up for them.

I agree with all you say, but if not Baylor or TT then who gets in?  Maybe TCU (small private school as is Baylor)?

It is all water under bridge now, but I can still be pissed as a fan.

[Ron Brand]

Maybe Recruiting the Houston Market?
Maybe, Texas has nothing to gain but everything to lose when playing UH (standings)?  
 
There is bad blood between UT and UH and I would be shocked if the big 12 stays together and UH is invited.  

I doubt it's recruiting, since A&M and Texas eat up most of what's in that area already, for football anyway. I'm sure Texas has no monetary gain by playing UH either, but it's something a lot deeper than that. It has to be some kind of respect issue but I don't know for sure what it is. I know that every time it's brought up at all it's lucky to get a dismissive wave at best.

[Ron Brand]

I agree with all you say, but if not Baylor or TT then who gets in?  Maybe TCU (small private school as is Baylor)?

More likely just Texas and A&M. Things were somewhat less complicated back then, with respect to TV money. The big fight in joining what became the Big 12 was over partial qualifiers competing and the location of the championship games.

[Astroholic]

I doubt it's recruiting, since A&M and Texas eat up most of what's in that area already, for football anyway. I'm sure Texas has no monetary gain by playing UH either, but it's something a lot deeper than that. It has to be some kind of respect issue but I don't know for sure what it is. I know that every time it's brought up at all it's lucky to get a dismissive wave at best.

Yep.

Though in SWC days Yeoman was able to recruit the Houston market very well.

Also Bleachergate does not help in todays landscape.  Rice/UH are playing at reliant the next few years.  Stupid not to move UH/UT there.

[BudGirl]

As I have said in the past, all those associated with Bleachergate are no longer with UH.  That includes people in Athletics and most of the administration.  (I think there are 1.5 VPs still here from that time [yes, I don't count one of them as a real VP].)

Lot has changed at UH since I've worked here.

[Astroholic]

As I have said in the past, all those associated with Bleachergate are no longer with UH.  That includes people in Athletics and most of the administration.  (I think there are 1.5 VPs still here from that time [yes, I don't count one of them as a real VP].)

Lot has changed at UH since I've worked here.

Yep.  But UT's AD said they will never play UH again as long as he is the AD.

[BudGirl]

Yep.  But UT's AD said they will never play UH again as long as he is the AD.

Then that is that.

[Astroholic]

Then that is that.

Maybe/ Maybe not.  people change.  political pressure.  But..oh who the hell knows.

[Andyzipp]

Uh yes.  That is what I think.  That and very poor leadership at UH.  I do think they had something to do with it.

I don't recall it so much as keeping UH out, as getting Baylor in, regardless of the cost.

On the other hand, I assume that both Texas and A&M had an interest in keeping the recruiting competition in Houston between themselves.

[Jacksonian]

Not sure I agree with this if you schedule teams like USC, OU, USC, Ohio State and Arkansas as an independent or go to the Pac-16.

The SEC gives you that quality before the non-conference games.  And, SEC > Pac 16.

[HudsonHawk]

As I have said in the past, all those associated with Bleachergate are no longer with UH.  That includes people in Athletics and most of the administration.  (I think there are 1.5 VPs still here from that time [yes, I don't count one of them as a real VP].)

Lot has changed at UH since I've worked here.

The move to the Big 12 (and exclusion of UH) happened long before "bleachergate", but I think it's an example of the real reason UT wants nothing to do with UH:  attendance and facilities.  Neither (at UH) have ever collectively been up to snuff for a big time athletic program, and it's an embarrassment for UT.

[Duke]

The SEC gives you that quality before the non-conference games.  And, SEC > Pac 16.

But it wouldn't be the only premier league.

[BudGirl]

The move to the Big 12 (and exclusion of UH) happened long before "bleachergate", but I think it's an example of the real reason UT wants nothing to do with UH:  attendance and facilities.  Neither (at UH) have ever collectively been up to snuff for a big time athletic program, and it's an embarrassment for UT.

Just an FYI, UH is working on the stadium issue.  I agree though, the facilities need help.  Hofheinz is worse than Robertson though. 

[Navin R Johnson]

The money for Robertson is all but secured, Hofheinz will be next.  

The biggest difference with UH today vs then is the current President and direction of the University. UH is on the verge of achieving tier 1 status, they have already achieved Tier 1 status from the Carnegie Foundation.  They are also adding a bunch of beds on campus.  The lack of students living on or near the school is one of the big things that undermined attendance forever.  

[Astroholic]

The money for Robertson is all but secured, Hofheinz will be next.  

The biggest difference with UH today vs then is the current President and direction of the University. UH is on the verge of achieving tier 1 status, they have already achieved Tier 1 status from the Carnegie Foundation.  They are also adding a bunch of beds on campus.  The lack of students living on or near the school is one of the big things that undermined attendance forever.  

attendance over the last few years has been very good and getting better.  New Stadium + better league + more students on campus = even more sell outs.

[HudsonHawk]

attendance over the last few years has been very good and getting better.  New Stadium + better league + more students on campus = even more sell outs.

Selling out 32,000 seats isn't addressing the problem though.  They need to sell out twice that, every game, for 10 years, to make UT re-consider their no-UH position.

[HudsonHawk]

Just an FYI, UH is working on the stadium issue.  I agree though, the facilities need help.  Hofheinz is worse than Robertson though. 

And Hofheinz used to be the jewell in the crown. 

[BudGirl]

Selling out 32,000 seats isn't addressing the problem though.  They need to sell out twice that, every game, for 10 years, to make UT re-consider their no-UH position.

Back when I started working here they were worried about poor attendance dropping them out of C-USA or Div. I.  Something like that.  Briles and Sumlin have done a good job of getting people talking about UH football.

[HudsonHawk]

Back when I started working here they were worried about poor attendance dropping them out of C-USA or Div. I.  Something like that.  Briles and Sumlin have done a good job of getting people talking about UH football.

Agreed.  I'm just saying there's still a long ways to go.

[Navin R Johnson]

Selling out 32,000 seats isn't addressing the problem though.  They need to sell out twice that, every game, for 10 years, to make UT re-consider their no-UH position.

No question UH has to keep growing attendance.  If relaigment was 3 or 4 years away instead of now, they would be in better shape.

but double?  Less than 30 teams in the nation average 60K a game.  In the PAC 12 only USC, UCLA and Washington average that much.

[HudsonHawk]

No question UH has to keep growing attendance.  If relaigment was 3 or 4 years away instead of now, they would be in better shape.

but double?  Less than 30 teams in the nation average 60K a game.  In the PAC 12 only USC, UCLA and Washington average that much.

Right.  But in order to impress UT and OU, they've got to demonstrate more than does say an Iowa St.  It may be unfair, but it is what it is.

[BudGirl]

It is becoming socially acceptable to go to UH athletic events again.

[Navin R Johnson]

Right.  But in order to impress UT and OU, they've got to demonstrate more than does say an Iowa St.  It may be unfair, but it is what it is.

Probably true.  My personal opinion is the UH would fit better somewhere like the Big East as a partner with TCU.  But even that is a long shot at this point.

[Astroholic]

Selling out 32,000 seats isn't addressing the problem though.  They need to sell out twice that, every game, for 10 years, to make UT re-consider their no-UH position.

cant fit 60k in a 32k stadium.  also cant get 60k out to see Rice, Tulsa, etc.  catch 22.

[ybbodeus]

Fucking accountants.

My former CPA (God rest his soul) loved to joke that an accountant was someone who lacked the personality and ambition to become a mortician.  It's an old joke, but he was really old when he told it.

[Lurch]

I'm guessing Jim is biting his tongue so hard it's bleeding at this point.  The back story must be fascinating. 

[ybbodeus]

We certain Baylor is the only school refusing to waive its individual rights to pursue litigation/damages?  I'm still wondering if the Big East merger discussion is on the table if OU, OSU & A&M all bolt.

[Ron Brand]

We certain Baylor is the only school refusing to waive its individual rights to pursue litigation/damages?  I'm still wondering if the Big East merger discussion is on the table if OU, OSU & A&M all bolt.

According to Des Moines Register, Iowa State also not waiving its rights.

According to what I've just seen, it's all PAC-12 right now, OU, OSU, Texas and Tech.

[ybbodeus]

I hear OU and OSU only, plus A&M obviously.  Texas and Tech staying.  KU and KSU are also expected to announce they aren't waiving rights.

[HudsonHawk]

cant fit 60k in a 32k stadium.  also cant get 60k out to see Rice, Tulsa, etc.  catch 22.

I can only point out the problem...don't ask me to fix it.

[JimR]

According to Des Moines Register, Iowa State also not waiving its rights.

According to what I've just seen, it's all PAC-12 right now, OU, OSU, Texas and Tech.

i do not think so.

[ybbodeus]

I'm guessing Jim is biting his tongue so hard it's bleeding at this point.  The back story must be fascinating. 

The Raups are trying to corner the network market.  They know something, I can feel it.

[Lurch]

Supposedly from BigXII conf call (from questionable source on Shaggy):
At some point, it was brought up that 'so, A&M won't be able to play in the SEC next season at all then, I guess.' Beebe chimed in (basically), 'Well they won't be playing here either.'"

Fucking Christmas in September

[JimR]

The Raups are trying to corner the network market.  They know something, I can feel it.

question for Zipp or others: what do the Aggies do now?

[Andyzipp]

question for Zipp or others: what do the Aggies do now?

No idea. If the only way the SEC accepts A&M is with the waivers, and the waivers aren't coming...I expect some general ugliness.  Starting with things like Arkansas letting be known that the Big 12 contacted them about membership.

My guys are pretty adamant that A&M will not be participating in the Big 12 next year, SEC or no SEC. 

[JimR]

No idea. If the only way the SEC accepts A&M is with the waivers, and the waivers aren't coming...I expect some general ugliness.  Starting with things like Arkansas letting be known that the Big 12 contacted them about membership.

My guys are pretty adamant that A&M will not be participating in the Big 12 next year, SEC or no SEC. 

well, if A&M takes that position, what does OU do? i believe UT is waiting on those moves before making its intentions known.

[MusicMan]

question for Zipp or others: what do the Aggies do now?

Something like this?

[Andyzipp]

well, if A&M takes that position, what does OU do? i believe UT is waiting on those moves before making its intentions known.

There was some belief that OU isn't going to do anything until A&M is officially gone.

[Ron Brand]

Zipp, would A&M go independent for a year?

[JimR]

There was some belief that OU isn't going to do anything until A&M is officially gone.

well, if they refuse to come back, i think they are gone.

[Andyzipp]

Zipp, would A&M go independent for a year?

We're dumb enough to do that, yes.

[Andyzipp]

well, if they refuse to come back, i think they are gone.

I think so too, so I'm not sure what Baylor's (and now ISU's) end game is.

The mechanics are A&M will not play in a Big 12 next year.  A&M's preference is to be in the SEC, and the SEC has accepted.  If the SEC calls Baylor's bluff and drops the waiver requirement, then that's the best avenue for getting there for next year.  If the waiver requirement isn't dropped...A&M is stubborn/stupid/spiteful enough to play as an independent for a year. 

Meanwhile, OU/OSU (and maybe others) are believed to be actively negotiating with the PAC-12.  No attention is being paid to that, but that's going to kill the Big 12 a whole lot quicker than A&M leaving.

[JimR]

I think so too, so I'm not sure what Baylor's (and now ISU's) end game is.

The mechanics are A&M will not play in a Big 12 next year.  A&M's preference is to be in the SEC, and the SEC has accepted.  If the SEC calls Baylor's bluff and drops the waiver requirement, then that's the best avenue for getting there for next year.  If the waiver requirement isn't dropped...A&M is stubborn/stupid/spiteful enough to play as an independent for a year. 

Meanwhile, OU/OSU (and maybe others) are believed to be actively negotiating with the PAC-12.  No attention is being paid to that, but that's going to kill the Big 12 a whole lot quicker than A&M leaving.

i think you are right on the OU/OSU stuff. there also is a school of thought that the SEC decided it was not ready to expand, and the waiver demand was its out b/c it knew Baylor would refuse. if the SEC drops that demand, then that school of thought was wrong.

[Andyzipp]

i think you are right on the OU/OSU stuff. there also is a school of thought that the SEC decided it was not ready to expand, and the waiver demand was its out b/c it knew Baylor would refuse. if the SEC drops that demand, then that school of thought was wrong.

Beebe told them to ask for the individual waivers last night.  Despite his initial letter stating the Big 12 AND its member schools.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-big12mess

[MusicMan]

Beebe told them to ask for the individual waivers last night.  Despite his initial letter stating the Big 12 AND its member schools.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-big12mess

I've yet to see anything that demonstrates Beebe's competence for the job.

[JimR]

I've yet to see anything that demonstrates Beebe's competence for the job.

check your pm.

[Andyzipp]

check your pm.

no fair. 

sometimes it sucks to be the enemy.

[VirtualBob]

no fair. 

sometimes it sucks to be the enemy.

Sometimes?

[Andyzipp]

Sometimes?

Sometimes, it's not so bad.  Really depends on the mood.  I mean, I get that you can't hate some of the Aggies some of the time...

[JimR]

Sometimes, it's not so bad.  Really depends on the mood.  I mean, I get that you can't hate some of the Aggies some of the time...

hell, i don't hate you. i like you, Aggie or not. i know absolutely nothing that pertains to the Aggies.

[MRaup]

The Raups are trying to corner the network market.  They know something, I can feel it.

We're working on our anchor spots on the newly developing sports network RSPN.

"Coming up at the top of the hour, we kick it to Coach for his segment 'WFW Today'. And at 4:30, our breakdown on what Ybbodeus looks like in HD. Stay tuned!"

[Ron Brand]

Late breaking news from the Baylor 247 site:

The Big 12 lives to ride another day and A&M is about out the door.

Sources close to the discussion coming out of the Big 12 meeting have said the conference is sticking together at nine and will look to add a 10th team.

The issues have been resolved and an equal revenue sharing partnership is being worked out among the remaining members.

This is a big win for Baylor and Texas as both worked together to save the conference from scattering across the country.

The Aggies should have an announcement by tomorrow on joining the SEC.

On the possibility of pursuing litigation, the Big 12 members still have not signed the waiver, but if the gentleman's agreement is kept there shouldn't be an issue.

[ybbodeus]

We're working on our anchor spots on the newly developing sports network RSPN.

"Coming up at the top of the hour, we kick it to Coach for his segment 'WFW Today'. And at 4:30, our breakdown on what Ybbodeus looks like in HD. Stay tuned!"

How did you get your hands on that crop report?

[JimR]

Late breaking news from the Baylor 247 site:

i believe if OU stays, UT will. let's see what happens if aTm is officially gone.

[jbm]

This is one screwed-up tale.  Like some huge mexican standoff. 

[JimR]

This is one screwed-up tale.  Like some huge mexican standoff. 

i think it is fascinating. i wish i were working on it.

[JimR]

Late breaking news from the Baylor 247 site:

Chip Brown's 4:20 pm update disagrees.

[Ron Brand]

Chip Brown's 4:20 pm update disagrees.

I'd hate it if the solution was easy. What did he say?

[JimR]

I'd hate it if the solution was easy. What did he say?

OU may still bolt.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Sounds about right.  All of this was a non-issue when it was just A&M leaving.  Perhaps what no one else counted on (with the exception of Deloss Dodds, perhaps) is that A&M would not be the only school to leave, forcing Baylor, Iowa, Kansas, and KState to fight for their NCAA relevance by threatening litigatoin.

Combine the 9/2 vow to not seek litigation with previous statements that all nine remaining schools were committed to keeping the BIG 12 together.  Then compare that with OU going public that they (and you have to include OSU by default) are looking at THEIR options TOO and the weaker schools have no choice. 

As Andy said, and as a fellow Ag I can confirm, most Aggies are stubborn enough to go ahead and blow the mother up, damn the consequences, rather than be forced in a direction against their will.  I can only assume this goes double for the A&M Regents.

[Andyzipp]

hell, i don't hate you. i like you, Aggie or not. i know absolutely nothing that pertains to the Aggies.

Your lack of hatred for me is appreciated.

[Lurch]

This is one screwed-up tale.  Like some huge mexican standoff. 

Racist.

[Lurch]

rather than be forced in a direction against their will.

I feel the same way when I'm forced to pay my mortgage every month

[Waldo]

check your pm.

C'mon, you can't drop something like that in public and not expect everyone else to ask for PMs.

[Lurch]

"We are being held hostage right now," Loftin said of being forced to stay in the Big 12. "Essentially, we're being told that you must stay here against your will and we think that really flies in the face of what makes us Americans for example and makes us free people."

Wow.

[Andyzipp]

"We are being held hostage right now," Loftin said of being forced to stay in the Big 12. "Essentially, we're being told that you must stay here against your will and we think that really flies in the face of what makes us Americans for example and makes us free people."

Wow.

Everyone is making outlandish proclamations.  Here's Baylor's (since removed from the Baylor.edu homepage):


Baylor takes steps to preserve Big 12 football and integrity in college athletics

POSTED BY THE BAYLOR PROUD TEAM IN ALUMNI, ATHLETICS, STUDENT LIFE



Since the news of a possible Texas-A&M-to-the-SEC move broke about a month ago, Baylor officials have been consistent in their stance and message, emphasizing the importance of not throwing away successful, historic rivalries for the sake of bigger TV contracts.

Recently, it has looked as if college athletics was about to turn into a free-for-all, with conferences raiding one another just to avoid being raided themselves. Lost in the midst of this mad scramble for the next lucrative TV contract is any sense of what's best for the universities involved. Absent from the discussion is any consideration of the welfare of the student-athletes, the best interests of the fans (who watch historic rivalries go by the wayside), the effect on the home states involved (which have much to lose in the shuffle), and the impact such hysteria can have on the very essence of the collegiate football experience.
At the moment, the carousel's turning has at least slowed as regards the Big 12. Currently, SEC leaders are awaiting written assurances from each Big 12 school that they will agree to waive their institutional rights regarding future conference expansion and any negative impact that might have on member institutions. In a statement issued earlier today, Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe made it clear that each of the schools in the Big 12 retains its individual rights. He further noted that significant changes to the Big 12 membership could negatively affect Big 12 institutions that were counting on revenue streams from contracts that were previously approved unanimously by Big 12 members, including Texas A&M. I have yet to hear of any Big 12 institution that has signed such a waiver.

As always, Baylor officials are working hard with the university's best interests in mind. It's important that Baylor remain on the national stage, so that people nationwide get to learn about BU and all that it has to offer -- as they did with the big win over TCU Friday, and the men's basketball team's Elite Eight run, and the women's basketball national championship, and ... well, you get the idea.
But there's something bigger than just Baylor's interests at stake here. This is about doing the right thing. There are real costs when universities begin to break commitments and contracts (beyond simply setting a bad example for the young minds on campus) -- up to and including anarchy in the world of college athletics.

Baylor is standing up for itself and for the integrity of college athletics, and people are starting to take notice. The Sporting News called Baylor "the closest thing to a hero at this point," adding that BU "is fighting to keep alive a workable business that has value to literally millions of people." CBS Sports applauded Baylor for speaking out. CNN has picked up the story. A Yahoo! Sports headline today reads "College sports realignment capers a study in greed."
In short, Baylor is standing up for our university, but also for something bigger. Our leaders have stepped into a space that few would have the courage to enter, but one that is gaining traction. Of that, we can all be proud.
Sic 'em, Baylor!

Sept. 7, 2011

[Lurch]

Everyone is making outlandish proclamations.  Here's Baylor's (since removed from the Baylor.edu homepage):

What'd I miss? That seemed quite... reasonable?

[HudsonHawk]

What'd I miss? That seemed quite... reasonable?

Anyone who thinks FBS college football these days is about preserving the integrity of the student-athlete, hasn't been paying attention for the last 40 years.

[Navin R Johnson]

This was pretty rich too, "But there's something bigger than just Baylor's interests at stake here. This is about doing the right thing. "

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

[VirtualBob]

C'mon, you can't drop something like that in public and not expect everyone else to ask for PMs.

Not that I have any actual experience with this, but why would anyone ever ask for PMS?

[Phil_in_CS]

As Andy said, and as a fellow Ag I can confirm, most Aggies are stubborn enough to go ahead and blow the mother up, damn the consequences, rather than be forced in a direction against their will.  I can only assume this goes double for the A&M Regents.

I can also see some rich old Ags writing a check out to make this happen.

[jbm]

"We are being held hostage right now," Loftin said of being forced to stay in the Big 12. "Essentially, we're being told that you must stay here against your will and we think that really flies in the face of what makes us Americans for example and makes us free people."

Wow.

They have an army.  Maybe it is time to fight for their freedom.  Haven't they raided Waco in the past, or was that somewhere else?