Author Topic: Atlas Shrugged Part 1  (Read 10071 times)

EasTexAstro

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Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« on: March 30, 2011, 08:58:38 am »
I'm not sure how many of you are interested in the Atlas Shrugged movie, but if you are, you may not know this. It is being independently distributed, so it may not be scheduled to show in your area.

Currently, in Texas, the DFW area is covered fairly well, but one location in Sugarland is the only other theater in Texas scheduled for a showing. If you are interested, here is the link showing locations with a button to click to request a showing in your area:

http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/theaters

The previews look very interesting, and a couple of reviews seem to believe the adaptation was done very well and true to the book.

Videos:

http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/gallery

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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 09:11:48 am »
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict "critical acclaim" but "financial failure".

I will add, I have read all of Ayn Rand's published work.  Call me a glutton for punishment if you must.  The Fountainhead, with Gary Cooper, was also mostly true to the book as well.  Painfully so, at times.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 09:34:23 am »
I'm still waiting for the film version of The Wealth of Nations.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 10:06:46 am »
I'm still waiting for the film version of The Wealth of Nations.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 10:32:47 am »
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict "critical acclaim" but "financial failure".

I've heard its a bit like the Sci-fi channel's version Dune in terms of moderate production values and faithfulness. I doubt it will be a big hit with critics since Rand was obsessed with ideas and public affairs not art or realistic human beings.

However, I'm interested in it since I've always assumed I knew what was in her books and never read them.

MusicMan

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 10:41:33 am »
However, I'm interested in it since I've always assumed I knew what was in her books and never read them.

If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 10:51:23 am »
If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.

I feel the same way about "Dharma Bums."  No, Mr. Kerouac, it is possible to fall off a mountain.

Hasn't Atlas Shrugged become the Dianetics of the Tea Bag movement?
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 11:07:05 am »
I've heard its a bit like the Sci-fi channel's version Dune in terms of moderate production values and faithfulness. I doubt it will be a big hit with critics since Rand was obsessed with ideas and public affairs not art or realistic human beings.

However, I'm interested in it since I've always assumed I knew what was in her books and never read them.

I thought Rand was obsesses with some 20 year younger guy she hauled around with her and her husband?
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Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 11:09:17 am »
If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.

Conversely, I re-read "1984" about 5 years ago...and shit myself.  The book-within-the-book appears to have been taken as an instruction manual.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 11:14:12 am »
Conversely, I re-read "1984" about 5 years ago...and shit myself. 

To be fair, this happens to you when you're not reading Orwell.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 11:20:39 am »
I feel the same way about "Dharma Bums."  No, Mr. Kerouac, it is possible to fall off a mountain.

Hasn't Atlas Shrugged become the Dianetics of the Tea Bag movement?

I loved "Dharma Bums" as well;  I even still have a t-shirt that says Dharma Bum, but people nowadays seem to think I'm an uber fan of Dharma and Greg when I wear it.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 11:29:19 am »
Ayn Rand rocks!
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 11:51:52 am »
If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.

Agree for the most part.  Rand actually spoke to the absolutes she portrays in her books.  Simply put, she wasn't going for realistic, she was going for an "ideal".  She felt the best way to do that was to use extreme examples to illustrate her message.  To that point, I think she was incredibly effective. 

Unfortunately, this strategy also shuts off anyone who has an ounce of life experience and compassion, as the examples are completely inhumane. 
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 11:56:33 am »
If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.

I'm not sure there are many great books that those statements don't apply. I think she has positive things to say about the value of ambition and human ingenuity that's probably more useful for a young person to read than, say, Zola.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 12:05:45 pm »
Obligatory:
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

MusicMan

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 12:10:32 pm »
Obligatory:
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Also:
"Didn't you read Lord of the Rings in high school?"
"No, I had sex in high school."
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chuck

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 12:12:43 pm »
Her books are sort of like the song American Pie, fucking silly and way, way too long.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2011, 12:15:51 pm »
I thought Rand was obsesses with some 20 year younger guy she hauled around with her and her husband?

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 12:22:51 pm »
Also:
"Didn't you read Lord of the Rings in high school?"
"No, I had sex in high school."

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 12:30:17 pm »
If you've moved beyond your "I'm 19 and know everything" phase, then you probably won't get much out of it.

I'm ashamed of how meaningful I thought it was when I read it my freshman year.

I'm surprised Towlie wasn't the one to start this thread.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 12:35:02 pm »
Who is John Galt?  He was one of the Black Sox nine... utility man.  Yes, nine, but no one gave a shit about him, so they basically wrote him out of the history books.  Enter the Black Sox eight.

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 12:48:00 pm »
I feel the same way about "Dharma Bums."  No, Mr. Kerouac, it is possible to fall off a mountain.

Hasn't Atlas Shrugged become the Dianetics of the Tea Bag movement?

Hijacked is more like it.  The simplest explanation Rand offers involves the example of the legend of Robin Hood.  In the children's stories, it is portrayed as Robin Hood robbed from the rich and gave to the poor.  Rand simply asserts that Robin Hood is simply stealing the wealth BACK from those who stole it originally, returning it to the rightful owners.  So, using this analogy of the Tax Man being a thief, then yes Tea Baggers are Rand Devotees. 

I read Alan Greenspan's "Age of Turbulence" where I learned that Rand was Greenspan's personal mentor.  After his tenure as Fed Chairman ended, even he admitted that some of the principles Rand laid out are false/failures.  The most obvious failure is that you can trust businesses to do what is inherently right, to survive.  This failure is how Greenspan views the failure of Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae and the subsequent sub-prime disaster.  They simply did not do what was right to ensure they continued to do business.  Personally, I'd point to the political influence placed on both entities, but that is just me.  From that perspective, Rand's books clearly illustrate how populist/entitlement politics will eventually be the undoing of the USA. 
  
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subnuclear

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2011, 02:26:52 pm »
Also:
"Didn't you read Lord of the Rings in high school?"
"No, I had sex in high school."

Weren't you the guy making "more doors" jokes in the other thread?

MusicMan

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2011, 03:37:02 pm »
Weren't you the guy making "more doors" jokes in the other thread?

And do you think I had sex in high school?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2011, 03:45:49 pm »
And do you think I had sex in high school?

With another person?
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MusicMan

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2011, 03:55:40 pm »
With another person?

I was a hardcore band geek.
I read LOTR.
I was in the math club.
I captained our Texaco Star Academic Challenge team.

It's a miracle my hand would have me.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

subnuclear

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 04:25:11 pm »
And do you think I had sex in high school?

I'm sorry I even brought it up.

Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 04:30:59 pm »
I was a hardcore band geek.
I read LOTR.
I was in the math club.
I captained our Texaco Star Academic Challenge team.

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRD!
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 04:31:22 pm »
I'm sorry I even brought it up.


That's what his hand used to say.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 04:33:56 pm »
Don't think twice, it's alright.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2011, 05:02:19 pm »
 After his tenure as Fed Chairman ended, even he admitted that some of the principles Rand laid out are false/failures.  The most obvious failure is that you can trust businesses to do what is inherently right, to survive.  This failure is how Greenspan views the failure of Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae and the subsequent sub-prime disaster.  They simply did not do what was right to ensure they continued to do business.  Personally, I'd point to the political influence placed on both entities, but that is just me.  From that perspective, Rand's books clearly illustrate how populist/entitlement politics will eventually be the undoing of the USA. 
  

Find the video of him explaining this to the congressional hearing.  He's almost in tears.  50 years of living and driving his philosophy only to discover its flawed.  It's actually quite... humane
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Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2011, 05:07:49 pm »
Find the video of him explaining this to the congressional hearing.  He's almost in tears.  50 years of living and driving his philosophy only to discover its flawed.  It's actually quite... humane

Quite an epiphany.  He only had to fuck the entire world to figure it out.
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2011, 07:10:31 pm »
Find the video of him explaining this to the congressional hearing.  He's almost in tears.  50 years of living and driving his philosophy only to discover its flawed.  It's actually quite... humane

Read the book and tell me if you can pinpoint Barney Frank's fictional counter-part.  I am not excusing Greenspan entirely, but that admission was, in large part, him falling on his sword on behalf of a bunch of fuck-wads in congress.  just my 2 cents....
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2011, 07:46:54 pm »
I'm confused (never read anything by her but also never really read anything about anything by her (she is a her, right?)).  But, the message that I'm seeing from the posters in the know is that there is not enough government oversight of corporations and left to their own devices corporations will always go for the short term victory at the expense of the longterm, but taxes to fund that oversight are bad?
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2011, 07:56:43 pm »
I'm confused (never read anything by her but also never really read anything about anything by her (she is a her, right?)).  But, the message that I'm seeing from the posters in the know is that there is not enough government oversight of corporations and left to their own devices corporations will always go for the short term victory at the expense of the longterm, but taxes to fund that oversight are bad?

Exactly... I think.
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2011, 11:30:27 pm »
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict "critical acclaim" but "financial failure".

I will add, I have read all of Ayn Rand's published work.  Call me a glutton for punishment if you must.  The Fountainhead, with Gary Cooper, was also mostly true to the book as well.  Painfully so, at times.

I saw it well after I rea the book, but Dominique Francon and Howard Roark were nothing like I had imagined.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2011, 06:29:27 am »
Quite an epiphany.  He only had to fuck the entire world to figure it out.

This. 

subnuclear

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2011, 07:05:17 am »
I'm confused (never read anything by her but also never really read anything about anything by her (she is a her, right?)).  But, the message that I'm seeing from the posters in the know is that there is not enough government oversight of corporations and left to their own devices corporations will always go for the short term victory at the expense of the longterm, but taxes to fund that oversight are bad?

I haven't read Greenspan's book, but the subprime mortgage collapse would not have been avoided by more money for regulation, but it needed a different kind of regulation that looked at the big picture rather than focusing on a particular segment of the financial and real estate industries. Fannie and Freddie, for instance, are pretty heavily regulated, but by the time they figured out what was going to happen it was too late.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2011, 08:48:51 am »
That's what his hand used to say.

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2011, 10:51:48 am »
I haven't read Greenspan's book, but the subprime mortgage collapse would not have been avoided by more money for regulation, but it needed a different kind of regulation that looked at the big picture rather than focusing on a particular segment of the financial and real estate industries. Fannie and Freddie, for instance, are pretty heavily regulated, but by the time they figured out what was going to happen it was too late.

Regulation would've stopped the banks putting lipstick on the pig, slicing it into fractions and selling it to everyone as AAA securities.  Regulation would've stopped banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford them (NINJA loans...wtf?).  Regulation would've stopped banks writing mortgages and then dumping them - often before the deal had closed - into the aforementioned beautification system, so that they earned originator commission for zero risk.

Separately, Greenspan drove the common wisdom that everyone should own a home (it's the American dream, but not everyone can afford one), which is predicated on the flawed premise that house prices will always rise.  To this end, he had the Federal Reserve lend our money to banks an zero or near-zero interest rates.  He was schilling for home ownership as late as 2008, when the house of cards was already hitting the floor.

So, with all this free money available to the banks, no downside for writing a mortgage to anyone and everyone - regardless of financial standing -inflated profits to be had by writing "sub-prime" mortgages and no one minding the store, it's no wonder the whole thing collapsed.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2011, 11:00:21 am »
banks writing mortgages and then dumping them - often before the deal had closed - into the aforementioned beautification system, so that they earned originator commission for zero risk.

This is the part of the whole scheme that I can't believe was permitted. If there's no risk, there's no restraint.
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Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2011, 11:13:01 am »
This is the part of the whole scheme that I can't believe was permitted. If there's no risk, there's no restraint.

I bought my current house in 2009.  I was told at closing that my mortgage had already been sold*.  I believe part of the revised banking regulations requires the loan originator to retain a certain proportion of the loan for its duration.  Simple, logical, unobtrusive regulation.

* A not-so widely reported hangover from the securitisation of mortgages - over and above the fact that banks often do not know who owns a mortgage to they don't know who can prosecute a foreclosure - is that most city or county administrations require the banks to file a notice with them whenever the lienholder changes on one of the properties in their jurisdiction.  In theory, every time a mortgage was bundled and sold, the bank was required to file the change of lienholder with the appropriate city or county, and pay the change fee.  Tens of millions of mortgages were sold and resold tens, perhaps hundreds, of times.  The change fees typically run about $25 - $50, so that's tens of billions of dollars of unpaid fees.  Most cities and counties are hurting for money - a lot of them are choosing to try to collect...
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subnuclear

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2011, 11:14:46 am »
This is the part of the whole scheme that I can't believe was permitted. If there's no risk, there's no restraint.

You have to have a buyer, so there is a risk. When Fannie and Freddie stopped buying them is when it blew up.

All those processes Limey mentions have been regulated, some highly regulated, and have been around a long time individually. It got out of hand because it was a chain of processes working together where everyone in the chain was making money from the big investment banks to home owners. If everyone is making money its very hard to stop it.

Limey

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2011, 11:20:00 am »
You have to have a buyer, so there is a risk. When Fannie and Freddie stopped buying them is when it blew up.

All those processes Limey mentions have been regulated, some highly regulated, and have been around a long time individually. It got out of hand because it was a chain of processes working together where everyone in the chain was making money from the big investment banks to home owners. If everyone is making money its very hard to stop it.

Which is why grown-ups need to be in charge.  Unfortunately, we elect some of the most self-serving, thin-skinned, flakey, childish and egotistical a-holes that it's possible to produce and still have DNA that tests as human.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2011, 11:21:41 am »
Which is why grown-ups need to be in charge.  Unfortunately, we elect some of the most self-serving, thin-skinned, flakey, childish and egotistical a-holes that it's possible to produce and still have DNA that tests as human.

The Fed Chairman during the period in question was not elected. Nor was he human I don't think.
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Gizzmonic

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2011, 12:30:53 pm »
Which is why grown-ups need to be in charge.  Unfortunately, we elect are some of the most self-serving, thin-skinned, flakey, childish and egotistical a-holes that it's possible to produce and still have DNA that tests as human.

FTFY.  We do this to ourselves every Election Day.  NC state legislature is just about to pass a law outlawing municipal broadband...because a few hick towns that Time Warner ignored for years had the gall to build their own broadband network that's faster and cheaper than Time Warner's best offerings in NC.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 12:34:44 pm by Gizzmonic »
Grab another Coke and let's die

Bench

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2011, 12:10:12 pm »
Roger Ebert's hilarious review of the movie:

And now I am faced with this movie, the most anticlimactic non-event since Geraldo Rivera broke into Al Capone’s vault. I suspect only someone very familiar with Rand’s 1957 novel could understand the film at all, and I doubt they will be happy with it.

"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

EasTexAstro

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Re: Atlas Shrugged Part 1
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2011, 10:08:06 am »
Roger Ebert's hilarious review of the movie:

And now I am faced with this movie, the most anticlimactic non-event since Geraldo Rivera broke into Al Capone’s vault. I suspect only someone very familiar with Rand’s 1957 novel could understand the film at all, and I doubt they will be happy with it.



Sadly, he is mostly correct. I'm not sure he has read the book, but it sounds like he hasn't. My wife and I went Saturday. We wanted to enjoy the movie. I don't think we would have followed most of it had we not read the book fairly recently. If possible, the movie is even more black-and-white than the book. You don't get an understanding of the competence and struggles of Dagney Taggert, and all reasoning behind why the government, her family, and other businesses are fighting Hank Rearden and Dagney Taggert are left out. It makes the protagonists just trying to do things, and the rest just generic evil people trying to stop them. While I know many of you do not think much of Atlas Shrugged, Rand did a little better job of showing motivations. The movie is missing many great discussions and interactions that round out the characters. The story jumps too quickly to understand most of what is going on unless you are somewhat familiar with the story before you go in to the theater.

It is hard to give a completely objective review because I know I filled in many of the blanks from memory of the book. From what I have read, and this seems odd to me, people who had read the book enjoyed the movie less than people who had never even heard what the story was about.

My wife and I did like seeing the movie, but part of that could also be because we got to share a nice evening by ourselves watching a movie and discussing it. (She and I enjoy reading the same books/watching the same shows/movies so we can discuss them later, it isn't just an Atlas Shrugged thing.) It is like going to see that Astros in a good game they lose. We still got to spend the time doing something we like even if the outcome was less than perfect.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 10:09:56 am by EasTexAstro »
It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.