Bagwell being Bagwell

[OregonStrosFan]

Expect new Astros hitting coach Jeff Bagwell to expand his instructional duties beyond the plate.  "I expect guys to run the bases. Their job as hitters is not done after they reach first base," Bagwell said. "Their job is done when they reach home plate. That's something I'm going to be on the guys about, going from first to third, because it's going to help the hitter behind them."  "That's important to me. There's a certain way the Houston Astros play baseball, and I want to make sure we're playing that way."

LINK

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Bagwell is actually the new offensive coordinator.

[Limey]

Bagwell is actually the new offensive coordinator.

It's a step up from offensive chin fuzz.

[hostros7]

Crasnick piece on Bags:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5503178

[Alkie]

Bagwell is already HoF eligible?   Jesucristo; time flies.

[Mr. Happy]

Bagwell is already HoF eligible?   Jesucristo; time flies.

The Mets announcers discussed Bagwell and Biggio with respect to the HOF, and Ralph Kiner said that both would go in and that Biggio would be a first ballot pick.

[OregonStrosFan]

Crasnick piece on Bags:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5503178

Thanks for the link!

[ValpoCory]

The Mets announcers discussed Bagwell and Biggio with respect to the HOF, and Ralph Kiner said that both would go in and that Biggio would be a first ballot pick.

I've got a feeling 2013 will be the year for both of them. 

[Reuben]

I've got a feeling 2013 will be the year for both of them. 

That'd be a shame. Bagwell is in the upper echelon of all-time 1B - and an extremely rare four-tool 1B at that. He deserves more than to be riding in holding Biggio's coattails.

(preaching to the choir, I know...).

[ValpoCory]

There are definitely pros and cons concerning both Bidge and Bags going in in the same class.

[Limey]

There are definitely pros and cons concerning both Bidge and Bags going in in the same class.

I'm pretty sure they'd be comfortable with it.  I've said it before - the writers are mostly tools who will overlook Bagwell on his first go around.  But they're sentimental tools, so both will get in the first year of Biggio's eligibility.  Oh, and if Biggio isn't a first balloter, I will hunt them down one by one...

[hostros7]

Something that had slipped my mind: Bagwell was a 30/30 guy twice and maybe would have had a shot for a third time in 94 if he had picked up the SB pace.  In the spirit of "what might have been," 2004 could have been one of the best offensive seasons for any player, ever if not shortened by the strike. 

Through 110 games: .368/.451/.750/1.201; 116 RBIs, 39 HRs, 104 runs, 15 SBs.

Bagwell should be a first ballot HoFer, IMO.  Hopefully, his reemergence into the baseball community this season will help remind the voters of his greatness as a player when it comes time to cast a ballot.

[Limey]

Something that had slipped my mind: Bagwell was a 30/30 guy twice and maybe would have had a shot for a third time in 94 if he had picked up the SB pace.  In the spirit of "what might have been," 2004 could have been one of the best offensive seasons for any player, ever if not shortened by the strike. 

Through 110 games: .368/.451/.750/1.201; 116 RBIs, 39 HRs, 104 runs, 15 SBs.

Bagwell should be a first ballot HoFer, IMO.  Hopefully, his reemergence into the baseball community this season will help remind the voters of his greatness as a player when it comes time to cast a ballot.

FTR, even though 94 was strike-shortened, he broke his hand and so would never had made 30/30.  He still has gaudy numbers though, especially if you allow for hitting in the 'Dome for the first half of his career*.

* Which I don't trust most of the writers to do, as they'll focus on "Ten Run" field, even though that in itself is a fallacy.

[subnuclear]

All power hitters in the late 90s are going to be considered "steroid guys" by some HOF voters whether there is any evidence or not.

[Lurch]

There's also a growing number of writers who won't give a first ballot vote to anyone but the next Ruth or Cy.  My bet is that both get it on Biggio's second ballot year.

[AtascAstro]

All power hitters in the late 90s are going to be considered "steroid guys" by some HOF voters whether there is any evidence or not.

In this case, the association with Biggio helps him, I think.  Together they tend to create a very nostalgic image of the game that stands in contrast to the steriod era of the game.

[MusicMan]

There's also a growing number of writers who won't give a first ballot vote to anyone but the next Ruth or Cy. 

The technical term for such voters is "idiots".

[HudsonHawk]

* Which I don't trust most of the writers to do, as they'll focus on "Ten Run" field, even though that in itself is a fallacy.

I think you underestimate the writers.  By and large, I think they've done a phenomenal job picking HOFers.  Luckily, the idiots like John Lopez are overwhelmed by the guys who take their job seriously.  That said, I think Bagwell scores high with the writers.  I think he *will* get points for being all around player.  I think he *will* get points for not being a media douchebag.  He's always been seen as a standup guy, who played all facets of the game, and played them the "right way". 

[Andyzipp]

I think you underestimate the writers.  By and large, I think they've done a phenomenal job picking HOFers.  Luckily, the idiots like John Lopez are overwhelmed by the guys who take their job seriously.  That said, I think Bagwell scores high with the writers.  I think he *will* get points for being all around player.  I think he *will* get points for not being a media douchebag.  He's always been seen as a standup guy, who played all facets of the game, and played them the "right way". 

I hope.

More likely to me is that Biggio is a yes, Bagwell is a no.

[Bench]

I hope.

More likely to me is that Biggio is a yes, Bagwell is a no.

On offensive statistics alone, has there ever been a better National League firstbaseman that has been eligible for the Hall?*  Even with the curtailed career?

Then toss in all the non-offensive ways Bagwell excelled, I just don't see how he stays out.



*Pujols not currently eligible for the Hall of Fame.

[Andyzipp]

On offensive statistics alone, has there ever been a better National League firstbaseman that has been eligible for the Hall?*  Even with the curtailed career?

Then toss in all the non-offensive ways Bagwell excelled, I just don't see how he stays out.



*Pujols not currently eligible for the Hall of Fame.

Let's just say I'm pessimistic about it.

[Ron Brand]

If you expect the worst, you're rarely disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised.

[subnuclear]

On offensive statistics alone, has there ever been a better National League firstbaseman that has been eligible for the Hall?*  Even with the curtailed career?

Then toss in all the non-offensive ways Bagwell excelled, I just don't see how he stays out.

Stan Musial and Willie McCovey both played a lot games at first.

[MusicMan]

Stan Musial and Willie McCovey both played a lot games at first.

The Man only spent about 1/3 of his career there.

[Bench]

Stan Musial and Willie McCovey both played a lot games at first.

McCovey is the only one that I really consider a "first baseman" in the sense of playing his career there.  Musial played 1890 games in the outfield and and 1016 at first.  McCovey played 2045 of his 2320 games at first.

Regardless:  McCovey had a .270 BA, .515 SLG, 1229 runs, 524 home runs, and 1555 RBI.  Bagwell hit .297, slugged .540; scored 1517 runs, hit 449 HR, and knocked in 1529 runs in seven less seasons.   

[VirtualBob]

The Man only spent about 1/3 of his career there.

Exactly ... an 'olden days' DH.

[Ron Brand]

McCovey is the only one that I really consider a "first baseman" in the sense of playing his career there.  Musial played 1890 games in the outfield and and 1016 at first.  McCovey played 2045 of his 2320 games at first.

Regardless:  McCovey had a .270 BA, .515 SLG, 1229 runs, 524 home runs, and 1555 RBI.  Bagwell hit .297, slugged .540; scored 1517 runs, hit 449 HR, and knocked in 1529 runs in seven less seasons.   

Yeah, but it was the Steroid Era and he played all those games in that bandbox Enron Field...oh...wait...

[OregonStrosFan]

Let's just say I'm pessimistic about it.

I don't know.  That both Law and Neyer have said or strongly intimated (can't remember which said what, but know their takes were similar) that he's a HOF'er certainly bodes well for him I'd think. (Not that either are standard bearers, rather if the naysayer sabermetric types are positive on him then I think that bodes well that the typical HOF voter would also view him in a positive light).

[subnuclear]

Exactly ... an 'olden days' DH.

He did play 100+ games at 1B in 1946-1947.  He won the MVP in '46.  

I don't really consider him a 1B either, but its hard to come up with someone better than Bagwell.  

[Alkie]

Stan Musial and Willie McCovey both played a lot games at first.

Ernie Banks.

More games at 1B than SS.

[Limey]

Ernie Banks.

More games at 1B than SS.

I thought he closed.

[Ron Brand]

Ernie Banks.

More games at 1B than SS.

He was a slugging SS but a middling 1B.

[Lurch]

Per Bart Enis in the pre-game:
The Rockets came to try a little batting practice today.  Bagwell was watching... apparently after the first few guys failed to make contact the third guy barely hits one past the pitcher and Bagwell states "Well, there goes the no hitter"

[Lefty]

Best "baseball player" I've seen.  If he's not a HOF the fucking thing should be burned down.

[MusicMan]

Per Bart Enis in the pre-game:
The Rockets came to try a little batting practice today.  Bagwell was watching... apparently after the first few guys failed to make contact the third guy barely hits one past the pitcher and Bagwell states "Well, there goes the no hitter"

I think Baggy would be a hell of a guy to have a beer with.

[sporadic]

Per Bart Enis in the pre-game:
The Rockets came to try a little batting practice today.  Bagwell was watching... apparently after the first few guys failed to make contact the third guy barely hits one past the pitcher and Bagwell states "Well, there goes the no hitter"

That's POTW material...without even being a registered user.  Take that, Chuck Norris.

[AtascAstro]

I think Baggy would be a hell of a guy to have a beer with.

I don't think there is anything on TV right now that would be funnier than listening in on Ausmus & Bagwell having a beer.

[Arky Vaughan]

Bagwell has a decent shot on this year's ballot. He's clearly the best of the newly eligible players. By any reasonable standard based on who's currently inducted, Bagwell should be a no-brainer, but the BBWAA dicked Alomar and Larkin around last year, so they may make Bagwell wait too.

Of the holdovers, I think Alomar and Larkin get in, and maybe Blyleven (finally) or Morris. If Bagwell doesn't get elected this time around because some writers place special emphasis on first-ballot elections, then he almost certainly gets the nod in 2011, when the newly eligible class is even weaker.

Being back in the news as the batting coach and teaching young guys the right approach to the game is certainly a plus for reminding the BBWAA about a big part of what made Bagwell special.

2011 Newly Eligible

Jeff Bagwell
Rafael Palmeiro
John Olerud
Kevin Brown
Larry Walker
Juan Gonzalez
Tino Martinez
B.J. Surhoff
Marquis Grissom
John Franco
Bret Boone
Al Leiter
Benito Santiago
Carlos Baerga
Raul Mondesi
Bobby Higginson
Wilson Alvarez
Rey Sanchez
Charles Johnson
Jose Offerman
Ugueth Urbina
Ismael Valdez
Dan Wilson
Paul Quantrill
Cal Eldred
Kirk Rueter
Steve Reed

Holdovers from 2010

Bert Blyleven  
Roberto Alomar  
Jack Morris  
Barry Larkin  
Lee Smith  
Edgar Martinez  
Tim Raines  
Mark McGwire  
Alan Trammell  
Fred McGriff  
Don Mattingly  
Dave Parker  
Dale Murphy  
Harold Baines

2012 Newly Eligible

Edgardo Alfonzo
Pedro Astacio
David Bell
Jeromy Burnitz
Vinny Castilla
Scott Erickson
Carl Everett
Jeff Fassero
Alex S. Gonzalez
Danny Graves
Rick Helling
Dustin Hermanson
Jose Hernandez
Brian Jordan
Matt Lawton
Javy Lopez
Bill Mueller
Terry Mulholland
Jeff Nelson
Phil Nevin
Brad Radke
Joe Randa
Tim Salmon
Ruben Sierra
Jose Vizcaino
Bernie Williams
Eric Young

[EasTexAstro]

I don't think there is anything on TV right now that would be funnier than listening in on Ausmus & Bagwell having a beer.

Throw in Redass.

[Limey]

Throw in Redass.

They should drop the lot of 'em into Jersey Shore.  The verbal lacerations would take decades to heal.

[EasTexAstro]

They should drop the lot of 'em into Jersey Shore.  The verbal lacerations would take decades to heal.

Ausmus, talking over their heads.
Redass, <bleep>
Bagwell, the stare.

[Lurch]

Kevin Brown

Hey, Arky.  Fuck you.