Author Topic: Rugby on TV  (Read 4823 times)

Limey

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Rugby on TV
« on: February 12, 2010, 09:58:03 am »
As mentioned in another thread, BBC America is showing selected matches from the Six-Nations tournament this year.  It involves the six nations of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France and Italy.  Don't ask me why Italy are in there, they're rubbish.  Anyway, the games are on Saturday and/or Sunday mornings at around 11ish (it varies depending on where the game is being held).  This week's game is on Saturday, and it's France vs. Ireland at 11:30am CST, from the Stade de France in Paris.

Folklore says that the sport of "rugby football" was born when William Webb Ellis, a pupil at the Rugby School in England, picked up a soccer ball and ran into the opponents goal with it.  This isn't true, but it's fun, and the World Cup trophy is named after the boy.  Regardless, the sport came to North America with the European settlers, and has since morphed into what you call football.  Watch it, and you will see the family resemblance.  Imagine American-style football, without a forward pass and where the ball is never dead, and you've got rugby.

It is 15 on 15 game game of two, 40-minute halves with the clock always running unless the referee takes time off for irregular stoppages (injuries, for example).  The object is to move the ball down the field and touch it down to the ground behind your opponents goal line, which runs the width of the field.  Sound familiar?  That is called a "try" and scores 5 points, with the kick after (conversion) being worth 2.  Some infractions result in a penalty kick, which if put between the uprights like a field goal scores 3 points, and it's 3 point for a drop goal.  There are no hash marks to limit the width from which kicks are taken, so the kicker can be forced to try and make from the side line.

The ball cannot move forward from any player's hand (that's called a "knock on" and is penalised with a scrum), so it is passed laterally as the team in possession tries to find or make a seam in the opposing defense.  There is no blocking allowed and it is only permitted to tackle the player in possession of the ball.  Only players on their feet are allowed to play the ball - if a player is tackled in possession, he has to release the ball, hopefully to be taken up by one of his upright teammates.  The ball can be punted forward at any time, which teams will do to gain field position while typically sacrificing possession.

Normal play is that a player will carry the ball into a tackle, go to gound and feed it back to his supporting teammates.  This sets up what's called a "ruck", where the defense will try to push the offense off the ball to regain possession.  The team in possession will hold them off and then cycle the ball back and across the field with a lateral pass to then set up another ruck, hopefully a little further down field.  This will get repeated until they have worked the defense out of position such that there's a seam or an overlap, and one of the (running) backs will try to burst through, or they'll whip the ball out to the wings for one of the true speedsters to get around the outside.  If the defense holds, the team in possession may punt for field position, rather than risk losing the ball close to their own goal line.

Offside.  This seems a little complicated at first, but it's really quite simple.  The ball sets up an offside line, like the line of scrimmage, but it remains in force at all times.  Thus, a player is only allowed to join the play if he is coming from his side of the ball.  If he comes in from the side, or from behind the play, he is offside.  The only time a player is allowed to be active when in front of the ball is when he is joined to the player with the ball, either in the scrum or in an impromptu scrum, called a maul.  Players are constantly left on the wrong side of the ball as tackles go in and the ball moves, so they must cycle back to their side of the ball before they are allowed to re-engage.  If the ball is punted forward, the same applies in that only players who were behind the kicker are allowed to challenge the catch (like a kick off in football).

The Scrum.  Certain infractions result in rugby's most recognisable event - the scrum.  This is set up when a formation of 8 players on each side push on each other, shoulder-to-shoulder with heads interlocked.  The team winning the infraction gets to put the ball into this scrum, and this is timed so that the ball is hooked back into their half of the formation.  Both teams try to shove the other backwards, and you will likely hear the crowd shouting what sounds like boos, but is actually "heave".  As long as the ball stays in the scrum, no one on the opposition can touch it.  If they can move forward, dribbling the ball soccer style, they can go as far as they like, even to the score line (this is called a "push over" try).

That's about it.  There are other rules that will become apparent while watching, and the referee wears a live mic which really helps a lot.  You can hear him coaching the teams to avoid committing infractions - and this is good refereeing.  The game should flow, and without a wise and wary referee, it can turn into a stop-motion horror.  FYI, the referee will point to the side winning the foul, not the side who committed the foul.  He has two linesman to help, who are very necessary as there are 30 players to keep an eye on, most of whom will be up to some form of no good when no one's watching.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 10:06:49 am by Limey »
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Lurch

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 10:15:29 am »
Great writeup!

Whats a drop goal?
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Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 10:22:23 am »
Great writeup!

Whats a drop goal?

[Burt Reynolds] Three points [/Burt Reynolds]

The ball is kicked through the uprights from open play.  The ball must be half-volleyed, i.e. it has to bounce before being kicked.  A particular skill with an oval-shaped ball.  England once used it to win the World Cup against Australia, in Australia.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 10:41:52 am »
So at any time the offensive player can attempt to bounce the ball and kick it through the uprights?  And his teammates still can't block for him, or can they here?

And is it safe to assume they don't have designated kickers so they all share that responsibility?

Is the final score similar to football?  Typically 20-40 for each team?
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 10:42:09 am »
The ball must be half-volleyed, i.e. it has to bounce before being kicked.  A particular skill with an oval-shaped ball.

In American football, this is called a "drop kick".  They used to be common in American football when the ball was rounder.  But as it took on a more pointed shape, it became more difficult, which saw the advent of the modern "place kick".  They are essentially the same thing scoring wise, it's just with the latter someone holds the ball still.  But the ball has to touch the ground.
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Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 10:45:17 am »
In American football, this is called a "drop kick".  They used to be common in American football when the ball was rounder.  But as it took on a more pointed shape, it became more difficult, which saw the advent of the modern "place kick".  They are essentially the same thing scoring wise, it's just with the latter someone holds the ball still.  But the ball has to touch the ground.

Bingo.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 10:48:22 am »
In American football, this is called a "drop kick".  They used to be common in American football when the ball was rounder.  But as it took on a more pointed shape, it became more difficult, which saw the advent of the modern "place kick".  They are essentially the same thing scoring wise, it's just with the latter someone holds the ball still.  But the ball has to touch the ground.

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 10:49:07 am »
So at any time the offensive player can attempt to bounce the ball and kick it through the uprights? 

Yes.

And his teammates still can't block for him, or can they here?

There's no blocking.  It's just done on the run.

I went to the St. Thomas - Austin Westlake varsity match last Friday, a rematch of last year's state finals.  I'm pleasantly surprised at the high level of rubgy in our high schools and have been going to see St. Thomas games for a couple of years (the head coach is a drinking buddy of mine).  It's a fun Friday night event.  $5 admission, and they don't inspect the bottles of "gatorade" that I bring with me.
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Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 10:49:48 am »
So at any time the offensive player can attempt to bounce the ball and kick it through the uprights?  And his teammates still can't block for him, or can they here?

Yep.  If you watch the clip, the forwards set up possession, blocking the defense and setting them back because of the offside rule.  Then the ball is "long-snapped" to the kicker who makes the attempt.


And is it safe to assume they don't have designated kickers so they all share that responsibility?

Anyone is allowed to do anything.  Kicking is a particular skill, either punting or drop-kicking, so this is typically only undertaken by those who can do it without hurting themselves.


Is the final score similar to football?  Typically 20-40 for each team?

Yes, scores will be typically in the same region as football, because the points structure is the same.  The clip shows England beating Australia 20-17 (in overtime), which is somewhat of a low-scoring game as it would be in football.
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Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 01:19:47 pm »
Here's a try being scored by England, against New Zealand's might All Blacks, which involves most of the play I described above.  No scrum, but some set up play, ball movement, sharp running and a cheeky little kick to finish it off.

Oh, and they don't wear pads but tackle like this.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 01:21:54 pm by Limey »
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Ron Brand

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 04:21:00 pm »
Limey, you made me actually want to watch rugby! Thanks!
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 11:18:26 pm »
Limey, you made me actually want to watch rugby! Thanks!

If you can sit though an entire NFL game you should be able to watch just about anything.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 02:27:36 am »
If you can sit though an entire NFL game you should be able to watch just about anything.

Saw Chris Gayle get the golden duck in Adelaide the other day with a first ball LBW. You see that on TV? Or I imagine the first innings is on far too early for you out there.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 05:05:29 am »
Saw Chris Gayle get the golden duck in Adelaide the other day with a first ball LBW. You see that on TV? Or I imagine the first innings is on far too early for you out there.

No mate, not too much chance you will ever find me watching cricket.  That, along with soccer, NFL or any rugby code will make me find the remote pretty quick.  Pity they play cricket in the West Indies, you would expect some of the cricketers would make pretty decent baseball players.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 05:15:37 am »

The Scrum.  Certain infractions result in rugby's most recognisable event - the scrum.  This is set up when a formation of 8 players on each side push on each other, shoulder-to-shoulder with heads interlocked.  The team winning the infraction gets to put the ball into this scrum, and this is timed so that the ball is hooked back into their half of the formation.  Both teams try to shove the other backwards, and you will likely hear the crowd shouting what sounds like boos, but is actually "heave".  As long as the ball stays in the scrum, no one on the opposition can touch it.  If they can move forward, dribbling the ball soccer style, they can go as far as they like, even to the score line (this is called a "push over" try).

The scrum is sometimes described as – one man trying to push two men up three men’s arse.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 09:33:49 am »
If you can sit though an entire NFL game you should be able to watch just about anything.

I rarely watch NFL any more and can't remember the last time I watched an entire regular season game.
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Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 09:51:34 am »
It's nearly time for some rugby!
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 12:25:17 pm »
France look scary-good.  Glad England play them in Twickers, and not in Paris.  That match could easily be the tournament decider. 
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2010, 03:28:09 pm »
The Six Nations resumes tomorrow, with BBC America's featured game being England vs. Ireland at Twickenham (West London).  Kickoff is at 10:00am CST (my apologies to everyone who tuned in late for the last game because I gave the wrong time).  The weather has been shocking, even by British standards, and isn't supposed to get any better.  A high of 39 and rain is the forecast, so ball-handling is going to be supremely testing.

The last round of matches saw England dispatch Italy while Ireland, despite a valiant effort, were put to the sword in Paris.  England and France are the only two sides with a 100% record, and if they remain that way, they will clash in a Grand Slam decider in London on March 20.  That game is shaping up to be a classic.

As I type, France are pummeling the snot out of Wales in Cardiff, 20-0 at halftime.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2010, 03:39:22 pm »
Sorry, old chap, but we're busy kicking Finland's ass right now.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2010, 04:11:38 pm »
Sorry, old chap, but we're busy kicking Finland's ass right now.

The Welsh mounted a furious comeback, but ultimately fell short.  Ended 26-20.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2010, 04:12:16 pm »
What's an insulting term that the Irish use to describe the English?  There must be some good ones.  

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2010, 12:13:29 pm »
Last game of the tournament today at 2:45pm CDT.  England are all that stands between France, and the Grand Slam.  Let's hope Twickers is rocking, and we get a touch of the spirit of Agincourt!
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2010, 12:24:41 pm »
Folklore says that the sport of "rugby football" was born when William Webb Ellis, a pupil at the Rugby School in England, picked up a soccer ball and ran into the opponents goal with it.  This isn't true, but it's fun, and the World Cup trophy is named after the boy.  Regardless, the sport came to North America with the European settlers, and has since morphed into what you call football.  Watch it, and you will see the family resemblance.  Imagine American-style football, without a forward pass and where the ball is never dead, and you've got rugby. . .

We played a less-organized version of this on the playground as kids.  We called it "Kill The Man With The Ball", among other things.  I always felt our game's fluidity was closer to rugby on the evolutionary scale than American football was; at least closer than the NFL, which breaks down its action into tiny segments, interspersed with long periods of confusing inactivity.

Thanks for the heads up.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 12:26:25 pm by strosrays »

Limey

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2010, 12:42:00 pm »
We played a less-organized version of this on the playground as kids.  We called it "Kill The Man With The Ball", among other things.  I always felt our game's fluidity was closer to rugby on the evolutionary scale than American football was; at least closer than the NFL, which breaks down its action into tiny segments, interspersed with long periods of confusing inactivity.

Thanks for the heads up.

That game we called "Murder Ball" or "British Bulldog".  The former typically played in a pool, with drowning being added to the list of potential hurt.  The goal was the get the ball from one side of the field to the other.  That was the only rule.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2010, 04:28:28 pm »
Sorry folks.  What a shit game.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2010, 01:19:50 am »
Sorry folks.  What a shit game.

But millions of cheese eating surrender monkeys thought it was great...
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2010, 04:48:22 pm »
But millions of cheese eating surrender monkeys thought it was great...

Cheese eating surrender monkeys?  Awesome! Nominted.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2010, 01:21:58 pm »
Cheese eating surrender monkeys?  Awesome! Nominted.

Once again, a Simpsons quote gets nominated.  Ah, springtime.

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2010, 01:28:58 pm »
Once again, a Simpsons quote gets nominated.  Ah, springtime.

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 06:08:38 am »
Once again, a Simpsons quote gets nominated.  Ah, springtime.

Simpsons?  I wondered where the hell I heard it.
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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 11:51:43 am »
I was wearing an onion in my belt, as was the fashion of the time.

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Re: Rugby on TV
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 12:04:39 pm »
Style, not fashion.
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