Tejada to the Orioles

[Lurch]

Will play third

link

[Ron Brand]

Mother fuck. The Astros wouldn't go one year and $6 million? Come on.

[jaklewein]

Mother fuck. The Astros wouldn't go one year and $6 million? Come on.

I suspect he was asking for more years and more money when the Astros gave up and signed Feliz.

[austro]

I suspect he was asking for more years and more money when the Astros gave up and signed Feliz.

Yup, that's my guess too. There has to be a bunch of guys who are starting to get nervous now that spring training is only about 3 weeks away.

[hostros7]

Well doesn't this reflect the complaint (on my part) that wade moves too quickly in a down market? Would have loved seeing miggy at the hot corner for the stros

[Bench]

Well doesn't this reflect the complaint (on my part) that wade moves too quickly in a down market? Would have loved seeing miggy at the hot corner for the stros

Unlike Alkie, I actually really like Tejada.  Having said that, I really don't think it's that big of a downgrade.  Really.

In my uninformed opinion, Miggy's greatest value was in the clubhouse.  His glove and arm, even at third, is far from Feliz's caliber.  He could hit a fastball, but so can Feliz.  Tejada is an asset, but, in a well-functioning team, entirely replaceable.  It's up to Mills and the players to make it work.

[JimR]

i like him too. he did a great job in Houston.

[matadorph]

I will miss him and wish him the best in Baltimore. He was a fun player to watch in an Astros uniform.

[Alkie]

Unlike Alkie, I actually really like Tejada. 

Nobody said he wasn't productive.  I said he's a fucking cheater.   I'm not going to start rooting for a cheater just because his home jersey says Astros on it.

In my uninformed opinion, Miggy's greatest value was in the clubhouse.  His glove and arm, even at third, is far from Feliz's caliber.  He could hit a fastball, but so can Feliz.  Tejada is an asset, but, in a well-functioning team, entirely replaceable.  It's up to Mills and the players to make it work.

What does this mean?   What exactly did he do in the clubhouse that translated into wins?   You'd rather have a proven cheater who brings a mythical intangible to the club than someone who provides better baseballin' abilities?   You lost me, man.

[Arky Vaughan]

Unlike Alkie, I actually really like Tejada.  Having said that, I really don't think it's that big of a downgrade.  Really.

In my uninformed opinion, Miggy's greatest value was in the clubhouse.  His glove and arm, even at third, is far from Feliz's caliber.  He could hit a fastball, but so can Feliz.  Tejada is an asset, but, in a well-functioning team, entirely replaceable.  It's up to Mills and the players to make it work.

Plus, if Feliz can live up to his career .293 OBP, he can help the Astros maintain their ranking among the worst teams in the league in getting on base. There is nothing like adding one of the three offensively worst third baseman in the majors for a mere $4.5 million.

[Alkie]

By the way, I want to be totally clear before I get jumped for this, that I have absolutely no love/interest in Feliz and am certainly not advocating him as "my" alternative.   Looking at my last post, it kind of reads that way, and I wanted to be clear that I'm glad the sack of shit cheater is gone, period.   It wasn't about Feliz taking over for him.

[chuck]

Plus, if Feliz can live up to his career .293 OBP, he can help the Astros maintain their ranking among the worst teams in the league in getting on base. There is nothing like adding one of the three offensively worst third baseman in the majors for a mere $4.5 million.

You know, I've been trying to look on the bright side of his offensive production and reminding myself that he does actually drive in a decent number of runs. That presumes people are on base, of course.

[Reuben]

You know, I've been trying to look on the bright side of his offensive production and reminding myself that he does actually drive in a decent number of runs. That presumes people are on base, of course.

I've been trying to look on the bright side too. (well, the obvious bright side is his defensive reputation. For the fielding position "Third Base," he's an excellent choice). Feliz had a very good first half in 2009 and maybe the year before, I forget. He tailed off the last couple months, so hopefully Mills and Blum and Keppinger can keep him fresh, and in that case he's not a bad #6 hitter I would think.

[JimR]

were/are greenies cheating?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I liked Tejada, as a player.  I would have been happy to see him at 3B, although he is far from a certainty to play 3B well.

But I don't assume the Astros could have signed him for 6mil/1yr. Baltimore most likely stumbled into that deal as all accounts indicated Tejada wanted more money and years from Houston.  The fact that he settled for less money/years is very likely a result of Houston moving on, along with St Louis for that matter, leaving him few options and a weaker position for a contract.  Asking X, or Best Offer... that's all it boils down to.

eta:  Oh, and the 1.6mil difference between Feliz and Tejada, that just bought Houston that critical lefty specialist.  I don't care what equation you use, two Major League players for the price of 1, that's a win-win. 

[HudsonHawk]

I liked Tejada, as a player.  I would have been happy to see him at 3B, although he is far from a certainty to play 3B well.

His SS play was fine.  He should have no trouble moving to 3B.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

His SS play was fine.  He should have no trouble moving to 3B.

I share your optimism.  He has the skills/arm to make the transition.  That said, neither of us KNOW anything about how well he'll make the transition.  Not until he plays there for a while. 

[Taras Bulba]

I never recalled Tejada playing third in spring training or in winter ball in the past several years.  Always thought that was interesting.

[BudGirl]

He played 3rd in the WBC last year.

[HudsonHawk]

I share your optimism.  He has the skills/arm to make the transition.  That said, neither of us KNOW anything about how well he'll make the transition.  Not until he plays there for a while. 

Well, you seem to doubt whether or not he has the skills to play 3B.  I'm not sure why.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Well, you seem to doubt whether or not he has the skills to play 3B.  I'm not sure why.

Didn't realize I said that.  But I guess in some way I do.  I know he has the arm and the eye-hand coordination.  I'm just thinking about those hot liners and shots down the line.  The requisite footwork has been explained here, a number of times.  I'm not claiming any expertise in the area.  But in my mind, that's something that has to be demonstrated.  The point I'd like to make is it's one thing to know a players is a good 3B (like Feliz), it's another to project a player will make a good 3B (like Tejada).  Not that it matters one bit, but I hope he succeeds. 

[JimR]

Didn't realize I said that.  But I guess in some way I do.  I know he has the arm and the eye-hand coordination.  I'm just thinking about those hot liners and shots down the line.  The requisite footwork has been explained here, a number of times.  I'm not claiming any expertise in the area.  But in my mind, that's something that has to be demonstrated.  The point I'd like to make is it's one thing to know a players is a good 3B (like Feliz), it's another to project a player will make a good 3B (like Tejada).  Not that it matters one bit, but I hope he succeeds. 

here is a Rule: if you can play SS, you can play 3rd. what "footwork?" the requirements are a strong chest and a good arm.

[Bench]

Nobody said he wasn't productive.  I said he's a fucking cheater.   I'm not going to start rooting for a cheater just because his home jersey says Astros on it.

You've been very clear on this.  It just makes no sense whatsoever.

[HudsonHawk]

Didn't realize I said that.  But I guess in some way I do.  I know he has the arm and the eye-hand coordination.  I'm just thinking about those hot liners and shots down the line.  The requisite footwork has been explained here, a number of times.  I'm not claiming any expertise in the area.  But in my mind, that's something that has to be demonstrated.  The point I'd like to make is it's one thing to know a players is a good 3B (like Feliz), it's another to project a player will make a good 3B (like Tejada).  Not that it matters one bit, but I hope he succeeds. 

The skills required to play 3B are fewer than to play SS.  He has the glove and the arm.  That's all he really needs to play an effective 3B.

[BUWebguy]

I don't care what equation you use, two Major League players for the price of 1, that's a win-win. 

How about 24 players for the price of 1 (ARod)? Sounds good to us!
Love,
the Florida Marlins

[S.P. Rodriguez]

The skills required to play 3B are fewer than to play SS.  He has the glove and the arm.  That's all he really needs to play an effective 3B.

That's two voices stating that rule.  I'll concede. 

[Lurch]

You've been very clear on this.  It just makes no sense whatsoever.

What part makes no sense?  "I'm not going to start rooting for a cheater just because his home jersey says Astros on it." is as clear as day

[Alkie]

were/are greenies cheating?

Yeah, I'll admit, this is all part of the last year or so for me, where I'm trying to decide how I feel about American sports in general.

As you know, I've spent a majority of my life following/playing sports.   A VAST majority.

And in the last year or so, it's really hit me just how much of American sport is not so much people doing extraordinary things in the field of play but rather people using extraordinary (literally) measures to do unhuman things.   That, to me, is ruining the whole thing for me.

If I wanted to watch robots play sports, I'd watch robots play sports.   Even something about "well, if everyone is doing it, it's not cheating anymore" still seems wrong to me.

[Alkie]

What part makes no sense?  "I'm not going to start rooting for a cheater just because his home jersey says Astros on it." is as clear as day

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or siding with me, but I thought it was pretty clear.

Cheating sacks of shit are cheating sacks of shit whether they play for my team or not.

If was playing basketball and found out the best player on my team was cheating, I'd be forced to deal with one of two choices: ask the cheater to leave or realize that I was in the vocal minority and quit the team.   There would be no third option for me.   I have no interest in seeing who can bend or break the rules to prove they can win a competition.   What's the fucking point?

[Lurch]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or siding with me, but I thought it was pretty clear.

Cheating sacks of shit are cheating sacks of shit whether they play for my team or not.

If was playing basketball and found out the best player on my team was cheating, I'd be forced to deal with one of two choices: ask the cheater to leave or realize that I was in the vocal minority and quit the team.   There would be no third option for me.   I have no interest in seeing who can bend or break the rules to prove they can win a competition.   What's the fucking point?

100% agree.

[JimR]

are/were greenies cheating?

[Lurch]

are/were greenies cheating?

Since 1970 they've been illegal to take without a prescription, but thats not what you asked.  Since 2006, MLB has had a specific ban on them.  So, post 2006, yes greenies were cheating.

[Taras Bulba]

If you're trying to steal signs, is that cheating?   That was standard operating procedure, at least in the olden days when I played.

[Lurch]

Is there a rule against sign stealing?

[JimR]

If you're trying to steal signs, is that cheating?   That was standard operating procedure, at least in the olden days when I played.

some think so.

[Bench]

Is there a rule against sign stealing?

Does the rule have to be written?

[HudsonHawk]

Does the rule have to be written?

To be cheating?  Yes, that's the definition of cheating. 

[Bench]

To be cheating?  Yes, that's the definition of cheating. 

How so?  If you and I race our cars, and we orally agree not to run any stop signs or red lights or exceed the speed limit, it's not cheating when I burn through an intersection?  It's only cheating if we write the rule down?

[HudsonHawk]

How so?  If you and I race our cars, and we orally agree not to run any stop signs or red lights or exceed the speed limit, it's not cheating when I burn through an intersection?  It's only cheating if we write the rule down?

Are there already written rules, and is it already defined that you cannot make up rules on the spot, like it is in MLB?  There's an "unwritten" rule that you can't bunt to break up a no-hitter.  But if the Astros are down 1-0, and Michael Bourn is leading off the 9th, I don't consider it cheating if he lays one down.

[Alkie]

Is there a rule against sign stealing?

No.  I have zero problem with this.

This isn't "cheating" so much as taking advantage of the other side's inability to protect their signs (part of the game).   If you figured out how to steal another team's signs, go nuts buddy.   Cheating is taking an UNfair advantage that is against the rules.   Stealing signs is neither.

[Alkie]

Are there already written rules, and is it already defined that you cannot make up rules on the spot, like it is in MLB?  There's an "unwritten" rule that you can't bunt to break up a no-hitter.  But if the Astros are down 1-0, and Michael Bourn is leading off the 9th, I don't consider it cheating if he lays one down.

Totally agree with this.   I've been known to say it's chicken shit, but it ain't cheating.

Taking drugs to take an unnatural advantage over other humans and unsportsmanlike conduct are not always the same thing.  You can be unsportsmanlike without unnatural drug induced advantage, but not the other way around.

[strosrays]

Does the rule have to be written?

It all has to do with chivalry, playing the game "the right way", taking what you can get, playing the cards you are dealt, etc.  As we know, in baseball, the official rulebook covers maybe half of the real rules, the ones one operates with when one is playing (or watching other people play.)

Stealing signs was generally considered an acceptable practice, way back when.  Of course, you should keep it in mind that if someone suspected you were stealing signs, you might get knocked down for it your next at bat.  Which was all well and good, too.  Stand back up, don't give the other guy any satisfaction by dusting yourself off, try to drill the next pitch right back through the box, if possible, and so on.

[JimR]

No.  I have zero problem with this.

This isn't "cheating" so much as taking advantage of the other side's inability to protect their signs (part of the game).   If you figured out how to steal another team's signs, go nuts buddy.   Cheating is taking an UNfair advantage that is against the rules.   Stealing signs is neither.

how about sign stealing with binoculars in the clubhouse or scoreboard?

[Taras Bulba]

how about sign stealing with binoculars in the clubhouse or scoreboard?

A hanging offense.

[Alkie]

how about sign stealing with binoculars in the clubhouse or scoreboard?

No, that's chickenshit.  I thought you meant, I'm standing on second and figure out the signs and report them back to my team.

Not using binoculars.   Not sure if "cheating" is the word so much as that just makes you 6 years old.

[JimR]

No, that's chickenshit.  I thought you meant, I'm standing on second and figure out the signs and report them back to my team.

Not using binoculars.   Not sure if "cheating" is the word so much as that just makes you 6 years old.

binoculars=Durocher and the '51 Giants.