No, not Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz

[OregonStrosFan]

JdJO reporting that the Astros will not be retaining Jose Cruz as a coach.  LINK

Tal Smith and Ed Wade told [Cruz that] his services as a major league coach will no longer be needed with the club.  *** Cruz, 62, said he was offered a role similar to the community outreach jobs held by Larry Dierker and Jimmy Wynn.

[Andyzipp]

But who will operate the stop watch, and ferry shin guards now?

[Bench]

But who will operate the stop watch, and ferry shin guards now?

And his ass-pat was so polished.

[Ron Brand]

Holy chit, man.

[Lurch]

Thought that would be the new manager's call?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

The article doesn't say that he was fired, simply that he was offered this alternate, legacy position. To me, that sounds like they gave him job security in the event that the new coach wanted his own guy.

The reporting on this JJdO article sucks (shocker); he's so focused on Cruz that he doesn't get quotes from anyone else in the organization or any of the other affected coaches.

To me, all this is is the organization offering the courtesy of a head start to all the coaches who will potentially be affected by the new manager. No one (from the looks of it) was fired; they were just given the free opportunity to get a jump start on job hunting.

I want you who know me to understand the implications of this statement: fuck the Chron and their shoddy ass reporting of this team.

[Bench]

Footer reports Wade says that Clark will stay on the staff, even if he's not the manager.

[OregonStrosFan]

The article was not clear at all and had me wondering if this was not just an offshoot of the 'coaching staff that they were free to look for employment elsewhere' comment by Wade after Coop was booted.  However McTaggart has tweeted "Jose Cruz just told me he was told he was not returning to coaching staff."

McTaggart also tweeting in the last couple of minutes that there are some other big changes to the coaching staff:

*Big changes at Astros coaching staff. Dewey Robinson has left, Ed Romero to manage in Greeneville, Mark Bailey to be hitting coach in Corpus

*Ed Wade said Dave Clark will return to coaching staff, even if he's not the manager.

*Cruz offered job to be administrative coach and be in uniform before games.

*Sean Berry to remain hitting coach.

*Mark Bailey will be hitting coach at Double-A Corpus Christi.

FWIW, I am a fan of Levine's work at the Chron.

[OregonStrosFan]

The reporting on this JJdO article sucks (shocker)

You liked the article, eh?  Then you will LOVE his rant in his blog.  [LINK, (read at your own peril)]

"HIGH"lights:

It's sad when the classy men in baseball are shown the door while Smith continues pulling the strings in Houston.

The Astros that were so succesful for Drayton McLane were led by Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, guys who were brought into the organization under Dr. John McMullen's ownership.

How can you continue to have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball with more drug suspensions than winning teams in the minors this season and still keep the same folks employed?

[OregonStrosFan]

With regards to JdJOs last comment in the quote above:

How can you continue to have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball with more drug suspensions than winning teams in the minors this season and still keep the same folks employed?

The Astros had 3 drug suspensions in the minors this year.  1 was a second suspension to Mitch Einertson for a "drug of abuse" (i.e. non-PED). The others were Gabriel Garcia of the Greeneville Astros and Felix Ramirez of the Dominican Summer League.

Those 3 suspensions (again, Einertson for a 'drug of abuse,' not a PED) are less than the Mets (8), the Royals (6), Phillies (5), Yankees (4), Cardinals (4), Rays (4), Tigers (4), Cubs (4) and Nationals (4), and are the same number as the Athletics (3), Twins (3) and Rockies (3).

Simply put, JdJO is shitty reporter and an irresponsible douchebag.

[Ty in Tampa]

Saw the link on the Chron home page, immediately came here, read what I needed about the subject, went on about my way. Fuck JdJO and his titillating trash.

[strosrays]

But who will operate the stop watch, and ferry shin guards now?

It is purely sentimental, but I'd hate to see Cruz leave.  For me, he is the last visible tie to the great 1980s teams.

You liked the article, eh?  Then you will LOVE his rant in his blog.  [LINK, (read at your own peril)]

"HIGH"lights:

It's sad when the classy men in baseball are shown the door while Smith continues pulling the strings in Houston. . .

Veiled charges of organizational racism cannot be far behind.

[domedogs]

I'd like to add my vote of disgust for JJdO.

Cruz was great to watch as a player, and it was great to see #25 on the field every night, but let's look at his coaching...

Supposedly, he coached the outfielders.  Does anyone remember Bourn's WTF? with Carlos where they both stood there looking at each other?  This wasn't the only time that situations like this arose over the past couple of years.  Pence takes some of the worst routes I've ever seen to get to a fly ball.  It's almost as if he has to touch every space on the Candy Land board before the gets to the end and then puts on that nifty pink bonnet to proclaim he's reached his destination does a dance and then catches the ball.  These types of things are part the player, but he should be coached up. Extra work could help.  After a couple of the communication problems in the OF, Cruz should have made Bourn walk around declaring his space everywhere he went (walks into the John, enters a stall and declares with full enthusiasm- "MINE!!!), just to remind him that he is in control out there.

Like I said, a lot of player, but a hell of a lot of coaching.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

FWIW, I am a fan of Levine's work at the Chron.

Agreed.  Levine's the Anti-Justice: a radio guy who wants to be a print reporter.  In a few years, he could be giving Mark Berman a run for his money as the best all-around sports reporter in the city.

[JimR]

I'd like to add my vote of disgust for JJdO.

Cruz was great to watch as a player, and it was great to see #25 on the field every night, but let's look at his coaching...

Supposedly, he coached the outfielders.  Does anyone remember Bourn's WTF? with Carlos where they both stood there looking at each other?  This wasn't the only time that situations like this arose over the past couple of years.  Pence takes some of the worst routes I've ever seen to get to a fly ball.  It's almost as if he has to touch every space on the Candy Land board before the gets to the end and then puts on that nifty pink bonnet to proclaim he's reached his destination does a dance and then catches the ball.  These types of things are part the player, but he should be coached up. Extra work could help.  After a couple of the communication problems in the OF, Cruz should have made Bourn walk around declaring his space everywhere he went (walks into the John, enters a stall and declares with full enthusiasm- "MINE!!!), just to remind him that he is in control out there.

Like I said, a lot of player, but a hell of a lot of coaching.

please. MLB is not HS. how much "coaching" do you think those guys will accept?

[Limey]

But who will operate the stop watch, and ferry shin guards now?

Maybe he's lost a step.  He ain't getting any younger...

[austro]

The Astros that were so succesful for Drayton McLane were led by Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, guys who were brought into the organization under Dr. John McMullen's ownership.

I am so tired of the revisionist shit about how wonderful things were under McMullen.

How can you continue to have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball with more drug suspensions than winning teams in the minors this season and still keep the same folks employed?[/i]

JdJO doesn't seem to understand the concept of a timeline, and how long it takes to replenish a farm system after a years-long drought. The guys who fucked up the previous drafts are gone, and the very last thing the club should do now is run off Heck.

[Rebel Jew]

I'd like to add my vote of disgust for JJdO.

Cruz was great to watch as a player, and it was great to see #25 on the field every night, but let's look at his coaching...

Supposedly, he coached the outfielders.  Does anyone remember Bourn's WTF? with Carlos where they both stood there looking at each other?  This wasn't the only time that situations like this arose over the past couple of years.  Pence takes some of the worst routes I've ever seen to get to a fly ball.  It's almost as if he has to touch every space on the Candy Land board before the gets to the end and then puts on that nifty pink bonnet to proclaim he's reached his destination does a dance and then catches the ball.  These types of things are part the player, but he should be coached up. Extra work could help.  After a couple of the communication problems in the OF, Cruz should have made Bourn walk around declaring his space everywhere he went (walks into the John, enters a stall and declares with full enthusiasm- "MINE!!!), just to remind him that he is in control out there.

Like I said, a lot of player, but a hell of a lot of coaching.

FUNNY FAIL!!!

[MusicMan]

Veiled charges of organizational racism cannot be far behind.

They're seldom veiled with JdJO.

[Fredia]

what will the fans say now? berkmannnnnn penceeeee guess the astros will have to find a player with the last letter of z
cruz was there seems like forever . i will miss his presnece

[domedogs]

please. MLB is not HS. how much "coaching" do you think those guys will accept?

Well, if they play like high schoolers, they should be treated like high schoolers.  And don't give me any lectures on "accepting coaching".  Two of my cousins were MLB pitchers.  They gladly accepted any help that kept them in the league.  They work to inflate their paychecks.  The better they are as a player, the more money they make.  They understand that.

[OldBlevins]

You liked the article, eh?  Then you will LOVE his rant in his blog.  [LINK, (read at your own peril)]

"HIGH"lights:

It's sad when the classy men in baseball are shown the door while Smith continues pulling the strings in Houston.

The Astros that were so succesful for Drayton McLane were led by Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, guys who were brought into the organization under Dr. John McMullen's ownership.

How can you continue to have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball with more drug suspensions than winning teams in the minors this season and still keep the same folks employed?

I rarely read the comments on blogs, but i did read the ones about JdJO's and found this hilarious tidbit:

 "I just wish somebody of status, similar to Billy Wagner, would seriously ask Drayton, to his face with the cameras rolling, "What have YOU done to be a champion today".

Billy Wagner!  There's a class act.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I rarely read the comments on blogs, but i did read the ones about JdJO's and found this hilarious tidbit:

 "I just wish somebody of status, similar to Billy Wagner, would seriously ask Drayton, to his face with the cameras rolling, "What have YOU done to be a champion today".

Billy Wagner!  There's a class act.

Ask Gascan how well that worked.  Then ask him how many rings he has.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'd like to add my vote of disgust for JJdO.

This would have sufficed.

[Reuben]

Nice to see that they kept Berry, despite the potential knee-jerk appeal of firing the hitting coach after your best hitter has a bad year. Hopefully he can continue the good work with Bourn and Pence.

[JimR]

Well, if they play like high schoolers, they should be treated like high schoolers.  And don't give me any lectures on "accepting coaching".  Two of my cousins were MLB pitchers.  They gladly accepted any help that kept them in the league.  They work to inflate their paychecks.  The better they are as a player, the more money they make.  They understand that.

good for your cousins, but they are not typical. also, taking a correct route to the ball is something that one just does. tell me how you would coach that. after you have taught me that lesson, then tell me how to coach the release point on a changeup.

[jester9450]

The article was not clear at all and had me wondering if this was not just an offshoot of the 'coaching staff that they were free to look for employment elsewhere' comment by Wade after Coop was booted.  However McTaggart has tweeted "Jose Cruz just told me he was told he was not returning to coaching staff."

McTaggart also tweeting in the last couple of minutes that there are some other big changes to the coaching staff:

*Big changes at Astros coaching staff. Dewey Robinson has left, Ed Romero to manage in Greeneville, Mark Bailey to be hitting coach in Corpus

*Ed Wade said Dave Clark will return to coaching staff, even if he's not the manager.

*Cruz offered job to be administrative coach and be in uniform before games.

*Sean Berry to remain hitting coach.

That all looks good if true but who will be the new pitching coach that was the teams biggest problem .

*Mark Bailey will be hitting coach at Double-A Corpus Christi.

FWIW, I am a fan of Levine's work at the Chron.

[Mr. Happy]

I'm sad to see Cruz off of the baseline, but I think that it was for the best. I hope that he remains a part of the organization. I wonder if this had any thing to do with how Cheito was treated last season. I'm glad Romero is gone and I'm glad that Robinson is gone.

[Andyzipp]

I'm sad to see Cruz off of the baseline, but I think that it was for the best. I hope that he remains a part of the organization. I wonder if this had any thing to do with how Cheito was treated last season. I'm glad Romero is gone and I'm glad that Robinson is gone.

How Cheito was treated?

Seriously?

He was given an opportunity to continute to be a major league player, given a opening day roster spot, performed poorly and was released.  What exactly should have been done differently, (other than he should have never been offered a contract to begin with)?

[moriartp]

They're seldom veiled with JdJO.

Someone just convince him that 'Tal' is short for 'Talejandro' and he'll have an apology written up in no time.

[Randy Watson]

I hate that Cruz won't be out there anymore.  I am not sure that this helps or hurts the team.

We're pretty much f'd for a few years anyway.  If it weren't for the fact that we now have a competent scouting department led by Bobby Heck and a committment to signing our draft picks, I would be completely hopeless.

As for coaching, I think at this level most guys know how to field their position or they don't.  I guess coaching can help if a guy is moving to a new position.  Otherwise, I doubt it matters much.

I do believe a good pitching coach can help a pitcher with mechanics and, more importantly, their approach.

Shane Reynolds once told me that with the Astros under Hooton, they basically just turned on the lights and rolled out the balls.  He said the Braves had a very organized and strict manner of coaching pitchers.  Of course he was pretty much used up by then so it did not make a difference to his career. 

[Andyzipp]

I hate that Cruz won't be out there anymore.  I am not sure that this helps or hurts the team.

We're pretty much f'd for a few years anyway.  If it weren't for the fact that we now have a competent scouting department led by Bobby Heck and a committment to signing our draft picks, I would be completely hopeless.

As for coaching, I think at this level most guys know how to field their position or they don't.  I guess coaching can help if a guy is moving to a new position.  Otherwise, I doubt it matters much.

I do believe a good pitching coach can help a pitcher with mechanics and, more importantly, their approach.

Shane Reynolds once told me that with the Astros under Hooton, they basically just turned on the lights and rolled out the balls.  He said the Braves had a very organized and strict manner of coaching pitchers.  Of course he was pretty much used up by then so it did not make a difference to his career. 

I'm certain that Reynolds preferred the soothing approach of Bob Cluck.

[MusicMan]

Someone just convince him that 'Tal' is short for 'Talejandro' and he'll have an apology written up in no time.

JdJO is convinced that Tal pruned the hedges of many small villages.

[MusicMan]

I'm certain that Reynolds preferred the soothing approach of Bob Cluck.

I just can't imagine Shane not getting along with a UT alum.  He so enjoyed his time on the 40 Acres.

[BUWebguy]

I'm certain that Reynolds preferred the soothing approach of Bob Cluck.

Wait - Bob Cluck wasn't just the Astros' autograph ambassador? As a kid, I think I got his autograph down the line at the Dome before just about every game I attended while he was around.

[Gizzmonic]

I will miss Cruz.  Making a "change" so you don't have to actually make a change...seems like the Astros way all too much lately.  I dunno what the justification is going to be...maybe something like this?

"Jose Cruz's performance review came up, and he didn't take the gear
from guys walking to first very well, he didn't wave safe on close plays
enough, and he was entirely too forceful with his pats on the back.  I'm
sorry, but he just had to go."

[Mr. Happy]

How Cheito was treated?

Seriously?

He was given an opportunity to continute to be a major league player, given a opening day roster spot, performed poorly and was released.  What exactly should have been done differently, (other than he should have never been offered a contract to begin with)?

I didn't say that Cheito had tried and failed. My question dealt more like the feelings between parent and ball club when a child is cut ot traded.

[Jose Cruz III]

First my dad and now my Gramps. Who will buy my ice cream now?

I liked my Gramps but my dad sucked.

[TheWizard]

I will miss seeing him on the sidelines...

[Gizzmonic]

The guy that drives the train is next...we do not accept mediocrity in this organization!

[Astroholic]

The guy that drives the train is next...we do not accept mediocrity in this organization!

Charley Kerfeld? 




I know, but since the JFK conspiracy theorist are cutting lose in that other thread, I thought I would spread some unsubstantiated facts in this one.

[JimR]

I will miss seeing him on the sidelines...

why? i have never quite understood his icon status.

[AtascAstro]

why? i have never quite understood his icon status.

Not unlike the Eiffel tower, if it stands there long enough it just becomes an icon by virtue of the fact that nobody remembers a time when it wasn't there.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

He was my favorite player growing up, for reasons that are now unclear but possibly connected to my family's ability to afford naught but the upper ranges of the outfield rainbow seats, and Cheo's proximity thereto.

He wasn't ever THE star on any of the "important" Astros teams of the 80s, but he did end up winning a lot of hearts somehow.

[JimR]

i thought he was a very good player on teams that finally started to win. i liked him then and admired the adjustments he made to his hitting approach. he has become larger than life, however, to some.

[Mr. Happy]

i thought he was a very good player on teams that finally started to win. i liked him then and admired the adjustments he made to his hitting approach. he has become larger than life, however, to some.

You're right. I was disappointed when we got him because I didn't think that he could hit. He had a brother who tore up the Texas League back in 1972 with home runs who I thought would turn out to be the better player. But Jose made the adjustments that all good professional ballplayers must make and became a productive, popular player.

[Ty in Tampa]

Cruz to return to Astros in new role.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

And now it's all one big happy family again.  JJdO skates happily away, having created another tempest in a teakettle.  Between this and the Chicken Little attitude about Acta, I'm pissed all over again.

[Arky Vaughan]

i thought he was a very good player on teams that finally started to win. i liked him then and admired the adjustments he made to his hitting approach. he has become larger than life, however, to some.

I count myself among that number. Growing up, he was my favorite player and the most reliable hitter in the line-up. It's an overstatement to say that he would've been a perennial All-Star or MVP candidate in a different environment than the cavernous Astrodome, but I do think he was a very solid player and the best we had to root for over a long period of time before we got spoiled by the likes of Bagwell, Biggio and Berkman. We weren't used to .300 hitters in those days.

[Alkie]

He was my favorite player/coach/leather partner of all time because I enjoy making an "ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" sound very loud in public.

And in private.