Fitting end to the season

[ferret]

Flu bug hits clubhouse
Astros first base coach Jose Cruz missed Friday's game with what were described as flu-like symptoms, and interim manager Dave Clark said several players were suffering from minor congestion, sneezing and coughing.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/6637790.html

"For Texas, 99 percent of what has been confirmed through the Centers for Disease Control has been H1N1, so we can pretty much say, if the doctor says you have the flu, you can be 99 percent sure that you have H1N1," said Kelly Craine of the Waco-McLennan County Public Health District.
http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=61501

[BUWebguy]

Approximately 11 Astros players have the flu. It is not swine flu.

http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/4378806618

[Andyzipp]

http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/4378806618

It doesn't matter.  It's not like H1N1 is really the Black Plague, part deux that many were claiming it to be.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

It doesn't matter.  It's not like H1N1 is really the Black Plague, part deux that many were claiming it to be.

First hand experience, for adults it's more like a severe cold.  For the little ones, it's a whole different beast.  And if your little one has any form of asthmsa, don't hesitate and don't let the doctor tell you tamiflu won't help that much. 

[Andyzipp]

First hand experience, for adults it's more like a severe cold.  For the little ones, it's a whole different beast.  And if your little one has any form of asthmsa, don't hesitate and don't let the doctor tell you tamiflu won't help that much. 

Reading the Tamiflu is not as beneficial as whatever the newly available vaccine is, but i'm sure either will help.  The level of medical care here is such that if it's diagnosed early, it's very treatable.

[HudsonHawk]

First hand experience, for adults it's more like a severe cold.  For the little ones, it's a whole different beast.  And if your little one has any form of asthmsa, don't hesitate and don't let the doctor tell you tamiflu won't help that much. 

By all means, don't listen to your doctor.  Tell him you read differently in the TZ.

[jwhudson]

By all means, don't listen to your doctor.  Tell him you read differently in the TZ.

From the CDC - Each year in the United States on average, 5% to 20% of the population gets the flu; on average, more than 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu-related complications, and; about 36,000 people die from flu-related causes. Some people, such as older people, young children, and people with certain health conditions, are at high risk for serious flu complications. This flu season could be worse. There is a new and very different flu virus spreading worldwide among people called 2009 H1N1 flu. This virus may cause more illness or more severe illness than usual. See 2009 H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu) and You for more information. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/
Just think you could be one of the 36,000.  Thats more people than live in Pflugerville.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

By all means, don't listen to your doctor.  Tell him you read differently in the TZ.

Yeah, especially when he changes directions 3 days later, giving you tamiflu.  Don't be surprised or confused because, well, the stuff doesn't work.  Oh, and when you see a dramatic improvement, don't question the initial coarse of action either.  Why?  Well because doctors are perfect.  Infallible even....   The extra three days of high fever, coughing, lethargy, and overally deteriorating condition are all part of the master plan. 

[JimR]

Lucky you stayed in that Holiday Inn Express

[Fredia]

maybe you should present that serenio to the astros? save all kind of money especially if the bat boys started batting a thousand

[Gizzmonic]

When you expose this much skin, it's all the more likely you'll get the flu.

[VirtualBob]

serenio

[MRaup]

Just run for your life, VB. If your brain actually catches up to this post, it's likely to eat itself.

[VirtualBob]

Just run for your life, VB. If your brain actually catches up to this post, it's likely to eat itself.

The emoticon is the result of spontaneous generation.  The rest of it was so strange my braoin froze solid.

[AtascAstro]

This is your brain

This is your

braoin

on Fredia

[MRaup]

The emoticon is the result of spontaneous generation.  The rest of it was so strange my braoin froze solid.

It's already starting!

My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

[Guinness]

It's already starting!

My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

Yes, buf if he had said, oh, something like "I broke a shoelace this morning", wouldn't you have given him the same advice?

[Limey]

Reading the Tamiflu is not as beneficial as whatever the newly available vaccine is, but i'm sure either will help.  The level of medical care here is such that if it's diagnosed early, it's very treatable.

And if you don't have access to medical care because you can't afford it, it can be deadly to a 22-year old.

[Ty in Tampa]

...serenio...

Didn't he host a bad talk show in the '90's?

[Taras Bulba]

And if you don't have access to medical care because you can't afford it, it can be deadly to a 22-year old.

Sorry, but insurance or not, had she shown up at a hospital when she was feeling ill she would have been treated just as she was when she finally decided to go. 

[Holly]

And if you don't have access to medical care because you can't afford it, it can be deadly to a 22-year old.

Not in the TZ, please.

Paging Dr. McGrimm...

[Limey]

Sorry, but insurance or not, had she shown up at a hospital when she was feeling ill she would have been treated just as she was when she finally decided to go. 

Wow!

[gleach]

Wow!

I've never been on a college campus that didn't offer some sort of health care option to the students. It may not be the best care around, but it's available and free.

[Bench]

I've never been on a college campus that didn't offer some sort of health care option to the students. It may not be the best care around, but it's available and free.

She wasn't enrolled when she died.  

[Limey]

I've never been on a college campus that didn't offer some sort of health care option to the students. It may not be the best care around, but it's available and free.

The headline is misleading.  The article explains that she was a graduate (double major) and was working two jobs.

[gleach]

Well fuck me for not reading very closely. Last time I half-ass read anything and post.

[geezerdonk]

And if you don't have access to medical care because you can't afford it, it can be deadly to a 22-year old.

The article indicates that the deceased had plenty of access to plenty of health care. Notwithstanding the fact that she had no insurance, she was seen and treated by at least three separate health care providers with an air ambulance flight thrown in for good measure. Is there any reason to believe that being uninsured caused her to receive substandard care at McCullough Hyde Memorial Hospital in Oxford or University Hospital in Cincinnati? Additionally, the article doesn't indicate the reason she didn't have health insurance. Maybe she couldn't afford insurance or maybe she freely and voluntarily chose to spend her money on something else.

[Outlawscotty]

maybe she freely and voluntarily chose to spend her money on something else.

B I N G O

[Bench]

The article indicates that the deceased had plenty of access to plenty of health care. Notwithstanding the fact that she had no insurance, she was seen and treated by at least three separate health care providers with an air ambulance flight thrown in for good measure. Is there any reason to believe that being uninsured caused her to receive substandard care at McCullough Hyde Memorial Hospital in Oxford or University Hospital in Cincinnati?

It's fairly obvious that she delayed seeking medical care because she was concerned about the cost, and that delay proved fatal in the end.  The healthcare debate isn't about the quality of care; there's no question that this country has some of the best doctors, nurses and facilities in the world.  The goal is to get people to all those great doctors, nurses and facilities.  That's where the system is failing.  

Additionally, the article doesn't indicate the reason she didn't have health insurance. Maybe she couldn't afford insurance or maybe she freely and voluntarily chose to spend her money on something else.

She worked at coffee and bagel shops.  Not a whole lot of disposable income comes with that salary.    

[MusicMan]

Am I the only one that finds it overly macabre to be discussing a woman's death in a thread titled "fitting end to the season"??

[Mr. Happy]

Am I the only one that finds it overly macabre to be discussing a woman's death in a thread titled "fitting end to the season"??

No.

[Guinness]

Last time I half-ass read anything and post.

Isn't that the way the internet works?

[Guinness]

Maybe she couldn't afford insurance or maybe she freely and voluntarily chose to spend her money on something else.

I really don't believe such people exist in any great numbers, and if they do, they're the sort that think they don't need to wear a seatbelt.

[VirtualBob]

I've never been so glad to see a thread hijacked into yet another political mudfest.

[Taras Bulba]

I really don't believe such people exist in any great numbers, and if they do, they're the sort that think they don't need to wear a seatbelt.

I'm related to a helluva lot of them.

[Outlawscotty]

I really don't believe such people exist in any great numbers, and if they do, they're the sort that think they don't need to wear a seatbelt.

Just curious, but how can you quote me and add words to my quote.

[Bench]

I really don't believe such people exist in any great numbers, and if they do, they're the sort that think they don't need to wear a seatbelt.

I know plenty of people who cannot afford insurance.

[Guinness]

Magic

Or laziness, actually.  I quoted the wrong post.

[Guinness]

I know plenty of people who cannot afford insurance.

I was referring to the canard that there are people who can afford insurance but choose not to buy it.

[T. J.]

I was referring to the canard that there are people who can afford insurance but choose not to buy it.

According to the census bureau, over 9 million people making over $75000/yr are uninsured.

See the following link for a bunch of numbers, if interested:  http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-236.pdf

[austro]

According to the census bureau, over 9 million people making over $75000/yr are uninsured.

See the following link for a bunch of numbers, if interested:  http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-236.pdf

That doesn't necessarily mean that they choose not to buy insurance. They may have been denied coverage for any of a variety of reasons.

[Andyzipp]

I really don't believe such people exist in any great numbers, and if they do, they're the sort that think they don't need to wear a seatbelt.

Without knowing any actual details of the article to which you are all refering, I chose to go without health insurance for several years in my 20's, because I deemed it as an unnecessary expense. 

Doesn't make me anything more than a little shortsighted, I think.

[Reuben]

Without knowing any actual details of the article to which you are all refering, I chose to go without health insurance for several years in my 20's, because I deemed it as an unnecessary expense. 

Doesn't make me anything more than a little shortsighted, I think.

Same here, and then my sister told me how selfish I was because if I got hurt and had to have major surgery or something, the rest of my family would have to spend bucket-loads of their money to fix me up.

[homer]

I'm related to a helluva lot of them.

I was one of them from 2006-2007. I was not working, but could have easily afforded it. I eventually did get something from BCBS for most of 2008 that ran about $140/month until I started working again this March.

I had 'whatever is going around' about two weeks ago. I don't know if it was the H1N1, but it was, without a doubt, the worst (non food poisoning) illness I can remember having. Ever. My new insurance through work makes me pay the first $250 each year, so I had to pay the full doctor's visit of a whopping $98. This probably would have been less if I had gone to a clinic. He prescribed an antibiotic. A couple of days later I was all better.

In my experience, it isn't necessarily a matter of insurance that prevents people from going to the doctor. I have spoken to several people that have been ill recently with 'whatever is going around.' Some go to the doctor early, but others have to be dragged there kicking and screaming. These are people with insurance. One friend had 103+ degree fever and his actual comment was 'My wife begged me to go to the clinic, so I went.' Apparently, there are reasons that I don't understand which prevent people from going to the doctor when they are sick.

[MRaup]

I was one of them from 2006-2007. I was not working, but could have easily afforded it. I eventually did get something from BCBS for most of 2008 that ran about $140/month until I started working again this March.

I had 'whatever is going around' about two weeks ago. I don't know if it was the H1N1, but it was, without a doubt, the worst (non food poisoning) illness I can remember having. Ever. My new insurance through work makes me pay the first $250 each year, so I had to pay the full doctor's visit of a whopping $98. This probably would have been less if I had gone to a clinic. He prescribed an antibiotic. A couple of days later I was all better.

In my experience, it isn't necessarily a matter of insurance that prevents people from going to the doctor. I have spoken to several people that have been ill recently with 'whatever is going around.' Some go to the doctor early, but others have to be dragged there kicking and screaming. These are people with insurance. One friend had 103+ degree fever and his actual comment was 'My wife begged me to go to the clinic, so I went.' Apparently, there are reasons that I don't understand which prevent people from going to the doctor when they are sick.

I got whatever's going around 2 weekends ago. I was congested, coughed a lot, but really didn't feel too terrible otherwise.

I'll take on anyone in a loogie spitting contest for the next 3 days or so, too.

[Andyzipp]

I was one of them from 2006-2007. I was not working, but could have easily afforded it. I eventually did get something from BCBS for most of 2008 that ran about $140/month until I started working again this March.

I had 'whatever is going around' about two weeks ago. I don't know if it was the H1N1, but it was, without a doubt, the worst (non food poisoning) illness I can remember having. Ever. My new insurance through work makes me pay the first $250 each year, so I had to pay the full doctor's visit of a whopping $98. This probably would have been less if I had gone to a clinic. He prescribed an antibiotic. A couple of days later I was all better.

In my experience, it isn't necessarily a matter of insurance that prevents people from going to the doctor. I have spoken to several people that have been ill recently with 'whatever is going around.' Some go to the doctor early, but others have to be dragged there kicking and screaming. These are people with insurance. One friend had 103+ degree fever and his actual comment was 'My wife begged me to go to the clinic, so I went.' Apparently, there are reasons that I don't understand which prevent people from going to the doctor when they are sick.

Again, I have 100% full coverage, with a $20 co-pay.  I hate going to the doctor with a passion.  It's all because of the hassle, rather than insurance/cost related.  Just prefer to avoid going if I can at all avoid it.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I haven't missed a day of work in almost 5 years.  Z-Pack has been my friend when needed).

[Reuben]

...

In my experience, it isn't necessarily a matter of insurance that prevents people from going to the doctor. I have spoken to several people that have been ill recently with 'whatever is going around.' Some go to the doctor early, but others have to be dragged there kicking and screaming. These are people with insurance. One friend had 103+ degree fever and his actual comment was 'My wife begged me to go to the clinic, so I went.' Apparently, there are reasons that I don't understand which prevent people from going to the doctor when they are sick.

Again, I have 100% full coverage, with a $20 co-pay.  I hate going to the doctor with a passion.  It's all because of the hassle, rather than insurance/cost related.  Just prefer to avoid going if I can at all avoid it.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I haven't missed a day of work in almost 5 years.  Z-Pack has been my friend when needed).

I think these are both good points. About 4-5 years ago I couldn't sleep one night due to some pretty bad stomach pain. No throwing up, just hurt. I ended up going in to the ER at about 6 in the morning, thought maybe I have appendicitis or something. There was barely anyone ahead of me, but I waited over two hours, including half of that in an exam room, and never got seen by the doctor. I was starting to feel better anyway- turned out it was just my first bad case of acid reflux. So, a year or two later, another sleepless night of really bad (worse) pain; that turned out to be appendicitis. I almost didn't go to the hospital in time- I was embarrassed that it might be nothing again.

[HudsonHawk]

I had 'whatever is going around' about two weeks ago. I don't know if it was the H1N1, but it was, without a doubt, the worst (non food poisoning) illness I can remember having. Ever. My new insurance through work makes me pay the first $250 each year, so I had to pay the full doctor's visit of a whopping $98. This probably would have been less if I had gone to a clinic. He prescribed an antibiotic. A couple of days later I was all better.

Just an aside, but if you were treated with antibiotics, you didn't have Swine Flu (or any other flu).  Influenza is viral.  You sure it wasn't chlamydia?

[homer]

Just an aside, but if you were treated with antibiotics, you didn't have Swine Flu (or any other flu).  Influenza is viral.  You sure it wasn't chlamydia?

That would require sex.

[Outlawscotty]

That would require sex.

Mark, if you're interested, Guinness does magic.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Just an aside, but if you were treated with antibiotics, you didn't have Swine Flu (or any other flu).  Influenza is viral.  You sure it wasn't chlamydia?

I'm reluctant to comment as you already gave me shit about annointing myself an expert.  Alas, I'm going to anyway.  As this thread indicates, there's a great deal of confusion and conflicting information.  Needless to say, I did quite a bit of follow up with my doctor and the pediatrician (to my wife's horror). 

Per my doctor's comments (and this applies only to his office), they are prescribing antibiotics but it is intended to address secondary symptoms related to H1N1.  If you are showing symptoms of H1N1, or simply exposed to it by your kids, they are prescribing tamiflu.  If you actually have H1NI and have only experienced symptoms for a couple days, they will give you tamiflu.  Otherwise, they tell you to ride it out.  With tamiflu, the symptoms are far less severe and you avoid most of the risk of those secondary infections which require antibiotics to treat.

There are prescribing tamiflu for children where they have the challenge of lacking direction for dose levels for children.  They can dose for children but because tamiflu is only available in pill form, and most children are unable to swallow a pill of that size, they will have to convert it to a liquid.  Not all pharmacies will provide this service.  (this was provided by my kids' pediatrician, after the fact)

There is a significant amount of conflicting information in the public arena when it comes to H1N1.  My personal doctor told us one thing (no need for visit, called in tamiflu immediately after our conversation) while my kids' pediatrician told us another (i.e. let the virus run it's course).  Eventually, the pediatrician prescribed tamiflu, after telling us the first time it wouldn't help even though the kids had only had symptoms for a couple days.  Once on tamiflu, literally overnight, my kids high fever was gone and their overall condition improved dramatically. 

[HudsonHawk]

I'm reluctant to comment as you already gave me shit about annointing myself an expert.  Alas, I'm going to anyway.  As this thread indicates, there's a great deal of confusion and conflicting information.  Needless to say, I did quite a bit of follow up with my doctor and the pediatrician (to my wife's horror). 

I gave you shit for advising people to ignore their doctor's recommedations.  I'm not sure of the purpose of the rest of your post.  Nothing in it is a revelation, nor contradicts my post.  As another aside, Tamiflu *is* available in a liquid form, a fruit flavored one at that.  You may have had trouble finding it, but it's out there.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I gave you shit for advising people to ignore their doctor's recommedations.  I'm not sure of the purpose of the rest of your post.  Nothing in it is a revelation, nor contradicts my post.  As another aside, Tamiflu *is* available in a liquid form, a fruit flavored one at that.  You may have had trouble finding it, but it's out there.

That's fair enough.  I'll have to go back re-read it, as I thought I said "don't let the doctor tell you tamiflu won't help because it does".  Admittedly, I was plenty pissed at the pediatrician at that point.  I still cannot reconcile his initial course of action knowing the risks involved with my oldest, which he completely contradicted by reversing 3 days later.  Asthma is one of the key risk factors, as H1N1 is most dangerous when it results in pneumonia.  A pre-existing asthma condition makes pneumonia an even greater risk.  I still don't have any indication other than "this is how we treat it" which indicates to me that a) they don't know enough about the virus and b) they are treating people based on statistics/probabilities.  Which is fine, but they need to be clear and up front about what they know and don't know.  At least, that is my requirement for my doctor/kids' doctor.  

As for the liquid form of tamiflu, that would have been really useful prior to yesterday, when he finished his tamiflu cycle.  Do you have any idea how hard it is to get 3ml's of nasty tasting medicine into a 1st grader who is running a fever of 103 and feels like crap?  My son has an ability to go completely limp yet use his hands in such a way that you think he has more than the standard pair.  And I swear, the kid is as strong as a medium-sized [FIFM], non-domesticated [/FIFM] primate when he's upset.  

[Guinness]

And I swear, the kid is as strong as a medium-sized primate when he's upset.  

Well, not to be pedantic, but he is a medium sized primate, unless he's small for his age.  Just sayin'.

[Guinness]

Mark, if you're interested, Guinness does magic.

I have a special practice; I handle one client.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Well, not to be pedantic, but he is a medium sized primate, unless he's small for his age.  Just sayin'.

Please see revision... sheesh...

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It's fairly obvious that she delayed seeking medical care because she was concerned about the cost, and that delay proved fatal in the end.  The healthcare debate isn't about the quality of care; there's no question that this country has some of the best doctors, nurses and facilities in the world.  The goal is to get people to all those great doctors, nurses and facilities.  That's where the system is failing.  

She worked at coffee and bagel shops.  Not a whole lot of disposable income comes with that salary.    

I guess she might have been covered by her parents while she was still in school, or maybe not. I wonder when was she last covered? She earned two degrees at Miami — international studies and fine arts photography. She was working two jobs. She was still in Oxford after graduating in 2008 because she wasn’t able to find the right job and was debating pursuing a graduate degree or working for a nonprofit organization. Young traveled twice to Latin America to explore human rights issues, and helped organize the spring break trips.

The system failed her but she was not without means. He choices failed her too. Her avoiding potential debt over health care is not just a system failure, it also involves some personal accountability.

The Ohio Department of Health, the Hamilton County Health District and the Butler County Health Department were unable to confirm she had been infected with the virus.

[Limey]

I gave you shit for advising people to ignore their doctor's recommedations.  I'm not sure of the purpose of the rest of your post.  Nothing in it is a revelation, nor contradicts my post.  As another aside, Tamiflu *is* available in a liquid form, a fruit flavored one at that.  You may have had trouble finding it, but it's out there.

Mmmmm...Tamiflu and vodka....

[Limey]

The system failed her but she was not without means. He choices failed her too. Her avoiding potential debt over health care is not just a system failure, it also involves some personal accountability.

It is entirely possible that she had the means to buy some form of health insurance, but chose not to.  We don't know at this point.

What we do know is that the emergency care she did get comes out of all our pockets, and is some of the most expensive health care possible.  It would have been cheaper for us all to pay for her to go and see a GP when she first felt sick.  She may well have survived, too.

[Outlawscotty]

I have a special practice; I handle one client.

Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me.

[Noe]

It is entirely possible that she had the means to buy some form of health insurance, but chose not to.  We don't know at this point.

What we do know is that the emergency care she did get comes out of all our pockets, and is some of the most expensive health care possible.  It would have been cheaper for us all to pay for her to go and see a GP when she first felt sick.  She may well have survived, too.

I don't understand your logic.  What would have changed her situation other than she died having health insurance over dying not having health insurance?  Are you saying with 100% certainty that a person with health insurance will not hesitate to seek medical attention in a timely manner?

That's really a naive opinion... IMHO of course.  Also based on faulty thinking.

[geezerdonk]

I don't understand your logic.  What would have changed her situation other than she died having health insurance over dying not having health insurance?  Are you saying with 100% certainty that a person with health insurance will not hesitate to seek medical attention in a timely manner?

That's really a naive opinion... IMHO of course.  Also based on faulty thinking.

Noe why are you a running dog imperialist lackey reactionary racist?

[Bench]

I don't understand your logic.  What would have changed her situation other than she died having health insurance over dying not having health insurance?  Are you saying with 100% certainty that a person with health insurance will not hesitate to seek medical attention in a timely manner?

That's really a naive opinion... IMHO of course.  Also based on faulty thinking.

Her friends in the article repeatedly said that she hesitated seeking medical care because she didn't have insurance.

[Bench]

I guess she might have been covered by her parents while she was still in school, or maybe not. I wonder when was she last covered? She earned two degrees at Miami — international studies and fine arts photography. She was working two jobs. She was still in Oxford after graduating in 2008 because she wasn’t able to find the right job and was debating pursuing a graduate degree or working for a nonprofit organization. Young traveled twice to Latin America to explore human rights issues, and helped organize the spring break trips.

When I was a student, the health plan was part of tuition.

One other thing that your post made me think of is that I recall something about a child being allowed to remain on his parents' health insurance up to the age of 25, but maybe the kid has to be a full time student or a dependant or something like that.  I don't remember the specifics.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Her friends in the article repeatedly said that she hesitated seeking medical care because she didn't have insurance.

Which is the not quite the same as saying she avoided medical care because of not wanting to pay for it.  Photography is an expensive hobby. She wasn't interested in just any job, it had to be the right one. She traveled out of the country. She was young and didn't think she needed health care enough to make the sacrifice. Many many young people are in the same boat. It's too bad that we don't have a better system and maybe that will change but people can do a better job of looking out for themselves too.

[BudGirl]

When I was a student, the health plan was part of tuition.

One other thing that your post made me think of is that I recall something about a child being allowed to remain on his parents' health insurance up to the age of 25, but maybe the kid has to be a full time student or a dependant or something like that.  I don't remember the specifics.

Back when I was on my parent's insurance.  It was up to age 25 if I was still in school, in good academic standing. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

When I was a student, the health plan was part of tuition.

One other thing that your post made me think of is that I recall something about a child being allowed to remain on his parents' health insurance up to the age of 25, but maybe the kid has to be a full time student or a dependant or something like that.  I don't remember the specifics.

It varies by company and policy. My father was able to keep me on his employers provided health insurance until I turned 23. I believe in most these type of policies the child must enroll a minimum amount of semester hours.

[JimR]

It varies by company and policy. My father was able to keep me on his employers provided health insurance until I turned 23. I believe in most these type of policies the child must enroll a minimum amount of semester hours.

not any more for a long time. no school required. the age is 25.

[Andyzipp]

not any more for a long time. no school required. the age is 25.

that's policy and state dependent.  We've gone with 25 and no student requirement back to (this past year) the student requirement.

[Noe]

Her friends in the article repeatedly said that she hesitated seeking medical care because she didn't have insurance.

So her friends are blaming her?

[Bench]

So her friends are blaming her?

They are blaming the fact that she didn't have insurance for why she didn't seek treatment earlier.  You can draw any inference you want from that.

[Noe]

They are blaming the fact that she didn't have insurance for why she didn't seek treatment earlier.  You can draw any inference you want from that.

They're not doing well by their friend with such blame.

[Bench]

They're not doing well by their friend with such blame.

Is your point really that she had it coming?  Really?

[Noe]

Is your point really that she had it coming?  Really?

No.  That her friends, while grieving, are doing what is natural in the grieving process.  There has to be a villain in order to make sense of life and death.  Is that necessarily a good argument to use for health care reform?  I don't think so.  IMHO of course.  I think it's a naive argument to make.