Author Topic: Oh Happy Day  (Read 22999 times)

hostros7

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Oh Happy Day
« on: September 21, 2009, 02:44:02 pm »
Coop axed.  Timing is strange.  At least now we'll be able to sleep soundly without nightmares of coop in '10. Per 610 report.  Clark taking the reins.

moriartp

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 02:46:46 pm »
...and I JIZZED. IN. MY PANTS.

Houston

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 02:48:46 pm »
...and I JIZZED. IN. MY PANTS.

Because you're happy or because it's Monday?
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 02:55:15 pm »
chron confirms
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jbm

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 02:59:46 pm »
I wonder what the last straw was? 

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 03:01:57 pm »
astros.com confirms with basically the same text as Chron story, they also say "Wade said that a full search for a new manager will be conducted in the offseason and that Clark is considered a candidate. The 2010 coaching staff will be determined after the new manager is hired."
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SaltyParker

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 03:02:36 pm »
I wonder what the last straw was? 
The pitiful comments from Cooper aired yesterday by Brownie couldn't have helped.

GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 03:03:19 pm »
I wonder what the last straw was?  

The fact that there are so many possible answers to this question is the answer itself.

ETA: My wife just gave me a present for our six month anniversary.  Today is indeed a good day.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 03:09:04 pm by GreatBagwellsBeard »
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 03:07:26 pm »
The pitiful comments from Cooper aired yesterday by Brownie couldn't have helped.

What did Cooper say?

Mr. Happy

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 03:09:44 pm »
This came from multiple directions. JD was questioning at least one or two moves a night. The GZ questioned even more moves than that, but we're not org men or women. The bullpen shambles, with the constant overuse and, even more importantly, overwarming up, of pitchers. Cooper's own mouth was not his friend. Good riddance. In my estimation, he's the worst manager since Harry Walker, who was better than Cooper.
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hostros7

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 03:10:42 pm »
I wonder what the last straw was? 

Wade took the over on 73.5 wins and realized cooper was incomprehensibly managing to fuck that up.  With only 13 games to play, it was time to take action.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 03:10:42 pm »
The fact that there are so many possible answers to this question is the answer itself.

ETA: My wife just gave me a present for our six month anniversary.  Today is indeed a good day.

Congrats! My husband got me one also. 
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 03:10:55 pm »
maybe things will go better now. and the sad thing is my daughter told me about it after she read it on facebook. there is a baseball god
this is better than christmas
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 03:15:17 pm by Fredia »
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David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 03:11:47 pm »
Now let's see if the other larger causes (decline of farm system - draft and internationally), bad FA signings, and absolute refusal to rebuild (especially this season) that have led to mediocrity since the '05 WS are addressed.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 03:12:25 pm »
This came from multiple directions. JD was questioning at least one or two moves a night. The GZ questioned even more moves than that, but we're not org men or women. The bullpen shambles, with the constant overuse and, even more importantly, overwarming up, of pitchers. Cooper's own mouth was not his friend. Good riddance. In my estimation, he's the worst manager since Harry Walker, who was better than Cooper.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 03:15:16 pm »
What did Cooper say?

According to Brownie on yesterday's broadcast Cooper was very depressed, didn't wish to be on camera and was mumbling that he didn't have any answers and was clueless of anything he could do to help this team play better. Something to that effect.

BizidyDizidy

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 03:16:13 pm »
According to Brownie on yesterday's broadcast Cooper was very depressed, didn't wish to be on camera and was mumbling that he didn't have any answers and was clueless of anything he could do to help this team play better. Something to that effect.

Pretty much sums it up
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homer

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 03:18:56 pm »
The pitiful comments from Cooper aired yesterday by Brownie couldn't have helped.

What was this?


ETA: NM
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 03:20:20 pm »
cooper clueless who knew? the sad thing is he might really have thought he was doing a good job. not that that is a defense. ignorance of how to manage is not a defense
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2009, 03:22:34 pm »
From Wade via Astros.com:

"Decisions like this are never easy, but we believe that a change in direction on the field is in order. By making the move today, we will have the ability to evaluate other facets of our operation as we move into the offseason.
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

SaltyParker

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2009, 03:25:57 pm »
Wade took the over on 73.5 wins and realized cooper was incomprehensibly managing to fuck that up.  With only 13 games to play, it was time to take action.
Coop goes out looking better at a 171-170 career record then a 171-183 record. Coop probably doesn't realize it but this is the best thing that could happen for him.

homer

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2009, 03:28:36 pm »
The timing is perfect for Coop- he'll leave with a winning record of 171-170.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/coopece01.shtml
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Limey

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2009, 03:32:51 pm »
I wonder what the last straw was? 

The last straw was 5 months ago.
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David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2009, 03:37:43 pm »
The timing is perfect for Coop- he'll leave with a winning record of 171-170.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/coopece01.shtml

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VirtualBob

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2009, 03:39:40 pm »
cooper clueless who knew?
Certainly not cooper.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2009, 03:45:14 pm »
I know I've complained as loudly as anyone else here, but it's possible that he can learn from this and become a better manager. He was the wrong guy at the wrong time for this team but if he can begin to under-

Ah hell. I'm glad he's gone. He's butchered enough bullpen arms and jerked around enough young players to make Dusty look like the Ol' Perfesser. Go get 'em, Clarkie!
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 03:46:17 pm »
I know I've complained as loudly as anyone else here, but it's possible that he can learn from this and become a better manager. He was the wrong guy at the wrong time for this team but if he can begin to under-

Ah hell. I'm glad he's gone. He's butchered enough bullpen arms and jerked around enough young players to make Dusty look like the Ol' Perfesser. Go get 'em, Clarkie!

no, it is not. he's too damn stubborn, plus he made and repeated mistakes that good HS coaches do not make.
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ferret

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2009, 03:53:49 pm »
By making the move today, we will have the ability to evaluate other facets of our operation as we move into the offseason.

Seems like an odd thing to say.  How was Cooper affecting Wade's ability to evaluate? 

Ron Brand

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2009, 03:55:55 pm »
Seems like an odd thing to say.  How was Cooper affecting Wade's ability to evaluate? 

Perhaps by instituting a more sane method of bullpen use and working in the callups now and then, instead of never?  Maybe by giving them a look at Clark as a manager?
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Matt

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2009, 03:57:20 pm »
Seems like an odd thing to say.  How was Cooper affecting Wade's ability to evaluate? 

By not playing the call ups as much as Wade wanted maybe?

MusicMan

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2009, 03:58:58 pm »
By not playing the call ups as much as Wade wanted maybe?

Ding, ding!

And by this, we mean "the players had such open disdain for him that he couldn't put them on the bench".
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David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2009, 04:01:17 pm »
What are the implications for the TZ moniker "Clark"?
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ferret

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2009, 04:01:40 pm »
By not playing the call ups as much as Wade wanted maybe?

Maybe.  In a post earlier today, I highlighted Wade and Cooper using the exact same language describing how the callups were going to be used. "Feet wet".  It was striking given the number of times these two have said the exact opposite.  Also, 13 games.  Who thinks that is sufficient to evaluate?  JR Towles?

David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2009, 04:05:31 pm »
With apologies to Wild Dog:

Trivia question: Last Astros manager fired with a losing record?
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ferret

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2009, 04:05:36 pm »
Perhaps by instituting a more sane method of bullpen use ...

Damage is done.  What further evaluation is necessary?  

Limey

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2009, 04:06:31 pm »
What are the implications for the TZ moniker "Clark"?

Maybe it should be changed to "Coop".
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2009, 04:07:18 pm »
a) Talk Zone implications for "Clark".  Nothing is going to change.

b) Cooper (allegedly) was told he was done at the end of the year.  He decided that he was done today.

c) It puts Clark in an awkward position because you can't really evaluate anyone for 13 games, but if he's really a candidate to be manager next year, it'll be based on his history with the franchise (minor league managerial record, not 1998 & 99) and not anything that happens the rest of this season.

d) Purely speculation, but I'm guessing that they go completely outside the org next year.

Wild Dog

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2009, 04:09:05 pm »

Art Howe?  he managed those really good teams from the early '90's.


With apologies to Wild Dog:

Trivia question: Last Astros manager fired with a losing record?

David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2009, 04:11:04 pm »
Art Howe?  he managed those really good teams from the early '90's.



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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2009, 04:13:42 pm »
Is Art Howe the answer or the question?

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2009, 04:14:31 pm »
Maybe.  In a post earlier today, I highlighted Wade and Cooper using the exact same language describing how the callups were going to be used. "Feet wet".  It was striking given the number of times these two have said the exact opposite. ...
And considering Wade's statement around the end of August that he doesn't like to bring guys up just for the atmosphere or as a reward, he only likes to do it if they're going to play...
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Reuben

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2009, 04:18:10 pm »
anybody able to see the 4pm press conference?
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SaltyParker

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2009, 04:28:21 pm »
Is Art Howe the answer or the question?

yes

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2009, 04:40:06 pm »
I've heard Jim Fregosi's name mentioned. He's a retread, not that I'm opposed to retreads. I think that Wade's job hangs in the balance of this hire, so he's looking for a guy who can save his bacon.
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Andyzipp

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2009, 04:46:04 pm »
I think that Wade's job hangs in the balance of this hire, so he's looking for a guy who can save his bacon.

that's not what I'm hearing, but I guess we'll see.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2009, 04:52:53 pm »
that's not what I'm hearing, but I guess we'll see.

You're probably right. But McLane is a businessman. If Heck doesn't produce at the draft/farm level and Wade's own managerial hire doesn't pan out, then I think that odds are Wade won't survive either.
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TheWizard

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2009, 04:54:56 pm »
Everyone seems so unanimously pleased with this move.  I'm surprised I haven't seen a yellow smiley face yet.
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David in Jackson

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2009, 05:01:43 pm »
Everyone seems so unanimously pleased with this move.  I'm surprised I haven't seen a yellow smiley face yet.

That's the other site.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2009, 05:02:38 pm »
Everyone seems so unanimously pleased with this move.  I'm surprised I haven't seen a yellow smiley face yet.

Coop seemed like a guy worth rooting for at first, so I'm not happy that it ended this way.  I hope he finds something else he likes to do.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2009, 05:09:01 pm »
Coop seemed like a guy worth rooting for at first, so I'm not happy that it ended this way.  I hope he finds something else he likes to do.

... and is good at.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2009, 05:14:24 pm »
I read an article the other day, but I can't remember where, about coaching changes. He predicted several coaching changes in which Coop was one of them. He also mentioned in the article that Ryne Sandberg could be a replacement at several of these places because he thought he was ready and wanted to coach in the bigs next year. I don't believe there is any way the FTC would let him take a job somewhere, especially in their own division, after they have groomed their golden boy to manage them one day. But would they cut loose Pinella to keep him? I would love to have Pinella.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2009, 05:16:52 pm »
I read an article the other day, but I can't remember where, about coaching changes. He predicted several coaching changes in which Coop was one of them. He also mentioned in the article that Ryne Sandberg could be a replacement at several of these places because he thought he was ready and wanted to coach in the bigs next year. I don't believe there is any way the FTC would let him take a job somewhere, especially in their own division, after they have groomed their golden boy to manage them one day. But would they cut loose Pinella to keep him? I would love to have Pinella.

Not me. Pinella is almost too old and brings his own baggage.
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Jose Cruz III

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2009, 05:20:55 pm »
Not me. Pinella is almost too old and brings his own baggage.
In this day and age they all have baggage. But Pinella has won more often than not.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2009, 05:29:58 pm »
This is great news...I called into the Kevin Kennedy MLB on XM show and talked a little bit about the reasons that Coop was fired, but unfortunately I ended with "Tony La Russa would be great for this franchise."  I had radio and caffeine jitters, and I apologize for that one, I couldn't think of anything to say.  I really meant to recommend Brad Ausmus but my mind went blank (its default state).
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2009, 05:30:48 pm »
that's not what I'm hearing, but I guess we'll see.


What are you hearing?

I think you are right...they will go outside of the organization.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2009, 05:35:05 pm »
Everyone seems so unanimously pleased with this move.  I'm surprised I haven't seen a yellow smiley face yet.

OK, I'll offer the dissent:

Unless, and this is a signifcant caveat, Andy's point about Coop essentially saying, "Just fire me now and be done with it" is true... then Drayton McLane continues to make a mockery of the baseball team I love to follow.

He declined to extend Coop in the offseason... then extended him during the season for no reason... then said they would make an offseason reevaluation of the organization... then fired the man with 13 games to go.

He continues to insist on keeping the team "competitive", despite all possible evidence to the contrary of that being possible given (a) the team's budget and (b) the depletion of the farm system at levels ready to contribute.

He continues to let his business operations override legitimate baseball opinions.

He is turning into Steinbrenner, minus the megabucks and criminal activities.
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The Spleen

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2009, 05:44:44 pm »

He continues to insist on keeping the team "competitive", despite all possible evidence to the contrary of that being possible given (a) the team's budget and (b) the depletion of the farm system at levels ready to contribute.


Cooper deserved to be fired for all of the reasons cited above... but the problem is that this organization has decayed to the point where McLane could hire Jesus Christ as his next manager, and Our Lord and Savior would only be able to eke out about 78 wins with the talent available to Him. Then, of course, Drayton would cru... uhhhh... let Him go for failing to be "competitive"...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 05:47:00 pm by The Spleen »
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2009, 05:51:15 pm »
Cooper deserved to be fired for all of the reasons cited above... but the problem is that this organization has decayed to the point where McLane could hire Jesus Christ as his next manager, and Our Lord and Savior would only be able to eke out about 78 wins with the talent available to Him. Then, of course, Drayton would cru... uhhhh... let Him go for failing to be "competitive"...

All Coop said was that halibut was fit for Jehovah.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2009, 06:29:34 pm »
OK, I'll offer the dissent:

Unless, and this is a signifcant caveat, Andy's point about Coop essentially saying, "Just fire me now and be done with it" is true... then Drayton McLane continues to make a mockery of the baseball team I love to follow.

He declined to extend Coop in the offseason... then extended him during the season for no reason... then said they would make an offseason reevaluation of the organization... then fired the man with 13 games to go.

He continues to insist on keeping the team "competitive", despite all possible evidence to the contrary of that being possible given (a) the team's budget and (b) the depletion of the farm system at levels ready to contribute.

He continues to let his business operations override legitimate baseball opinions.

He is turning into Steinbrenner, minus the megabucks and criminal activities.

I dunno, I think his words and his deeds are two different things.  I believe that Wade's statements about an "experienced" manager are suggestive of the fact that this team is about to get a lot younger, and they wanted to bring in someone to bring them along.  Coop was a bad manager for veterans, but he repeatedly showed that he's worse for young players.  Although Drayton says that he wants a "competitive" team, I think a youth movement is in the offing for '10.  Of course, I'm just speculating here.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2009, 06:51:33 pm »
I think a youth movement is in the offing for '10. 

Gonna be tough to not get younger in '10.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2009, 09:24:17 pm »
Gonna be tough to not get younger in '10.

Why?  Bob Feller isn't under contract yet.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2009, 09:52:51 pm »
He is turning into Steinbrenner, minus the megabucks and criminal activities.

And championships.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2009, 09:56:23 pm »
I called into the Kevin Kennedy MLB on XM show and talked a little bit about the reasons that Coop was fired, but unfortunately I ended with "Tony La Russa would be great for this franchise."  I had radio and caffeine jitters, and I apologize for that one, I couldn't think of anything to say.  I really meant to recommend Brad Ausmus but my mind went blank (its default state).

1.)  Were you calling from your pew between the intercessions and the doxology?

2.)  Did you record your call as you made it?

3.)  If so, will you compare it later to other calls you have made to sports call-in shows over the years?

Just asking.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2009, 11:16:41 pm »
McT on managerial candidates.

Willie Randolph is lobbying for the managerial job.  So is Manny Acta.  All of the sudden I'm rooting for Dale Sveum.  Jubilation never turned to terror so quickly.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2009, 06:22:04 am »
Ding dong Cooper is gone.

Wow, Whitey threw Drayton under the bus.  Saying "trying to understand anything rational about their owner Drayton McLane is a near impossibility"  Then saying a story that he was fired because he congratulated Prince Fielder on breaking his RBI record in Milwaukee.  And then claiming Bagwell would be the Astros manager of choice.

Where does he get this crap?  Is Pinwheel his only source on the Astros?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 06:26:28 am by pots »

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2009, 08:19:09 am »
During the broadcast last night, JD asked Wade about playing some of the young guys.  Wade said something like "No, we are trying to win; these guys will be FAs and are vets, and therefore deserve playing time (sounded like he was trying to coax a few to sign); and something about experience for the young guys was not that important.  This characterization may be a little off, but the conversation seemed odd coming from a GM who presumably would like to see something from the callups (particularly Manzella).

Is this Wade rationalizing a directive from Drayton, or is this just the way he sees things? 

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2009, 08:55:27 am »
1.)  Were you calling from your pew between the intercessions and the doxology?

2.)  Did you record your call as you made it?

3.)  If so, will you compare it later to other calls you have made to sports call-in shows over the years?

Just asking.

It's funny you should ask.  I'm self-publishing a mixtape of my sports radio calls, to be entitled "Insights of a Genius: Gizzmonic's Sports-Radio Calls 2000-2009 Volume 1."  The companion novel, about an intrepid sports radio caller imparting knowledge to troubled Lakeside Clearing high school students, should be out early next year.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2009, 09:25:13 am »
During the broadcast last night, JD asked Wade about playing some of the young guys.  Wade said something like "No, we are trying to win; these guys will be FAs and are vets, and therefore deserve playing time (sounded like he was trying to coax a few to sign); and something about experience for the young guys was not that important.  This characterization may be a little off, but the conversation seemed odd coming from a GM who presumably would like to see something from the callups (particularly Manzella).

Is this Wade rationalizing a directive from Drayton, or is this just the way he sees things? 

this is consistent with the Wade quote The Ferret posted that the purpose of the callup was to allow them to "get their feet wet." that does not mean to me playing every day so that management can get an in-depth analysis. to me it means being introduced to the MLB experience but not much more.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2009, 09:50:08 am »
Gonna be tough to not get younger in '10.
Unless they re-sign Tejada and find out he is really 44.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2009, 10:35:56 am »
Here is Rosenthal's take. http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB?vid=18caa0bb-b7ca-499d-a28f-117f9cacb8d7

You will have to sit thru a :30 commercial to watch.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2009, 10:48:21 am »
Here is Rosenthal's take. http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB?vid=18caa0bb-b7ca-499d-a28f-117f9cacb8d7

You will have to sit thru a :30 commercial to watch.

I can't disagree with any of that.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2009, 11:08:03 am »
b) Cooper (allegedly) was told he was done at the end of the year.  He decided that he was done today.

Unless, and this is a signifcant caveat, Andy's point about Coop essentially saying, "Just fire me now and be done with it" is true... then Drayton McLane continues to make a mockery of the baseball team I love to follow.

So, he was fired because he quit?! 
RO RASROS!

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2009, 11:20:29 am »
So, he was fired because he quit?! 

You say that like it isn't a fitting end to Coop's tenure.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2009, 11:31:36 am »
I can't disagree with any of that.

I think I can.  I'm not yet convinced a total tear down is necessary.  A healthy Berkman matters for the entire lineup.  They've got a solid leadoff guy, a good #2 combo in Matsui/Keppinger, Berkman and Lee. Pence can probably hold down the #5 spot.  They need a decent catcher.  Towles isn't going to cut it, and I don't believe Castro will be ready in April.  If Johnson is on the club he might make a reasonable #7 hitter. Manzella might make a reasonable #8 hitter, but he's a good enough defender that hitting .230-.250 should be fine to justify keeping a full-time job.  They might need to get another stop-gap 3B if Johnson flops offensively and defensively.  There are questions there, but in my mind not enough to justify a complete tear down.  The rotation needs help though and a good manager might be able to get production out of guys past Roy and Wandy.  Some combination of Paulino, Norris and Bazardo (who I think is better suited for the pen) might work out.  There might be room for a trade for a 3-4 kind of starter as well.  Wade worked some pretty solid trade magic in the winter of 07.  I think there's reason to expect he could do some of the same again this winter.  But, they've got to stay healthy.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2009, 01:37:48 pm »
You're much more confident in the lineup than I.  Matsui/Keppinger are a terrible #2 combo, b/c either Matsui gets 80% of the time, or Kepp has to face the righties that eat him up.  Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.  Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere, Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2009, 01:39:32 pm »
You're much more confident in the lineup than I.  Matsui/Keppinger are a terrible #2 combo, b/c either Matsui gets 80% of the time, or Kepp has to face the righties that eat him up.  Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.  Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere, Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2009, 01:50:21 pm »
You're much more confident in the lineup than I.  Matsui/Keppinger are a terrible #2 combo, b/c either Matsui gets 80% of the time, or Kepp has to face the righties that eat him up.  Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.  Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere, Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.

holy shit. disagree except for Pence.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2009, 01:51:05 pm »
You're much more confident in the lineup than I.  Matsui/Keppinger are a terrible #2 combo, b/c either Matsui gets 80% of the time, or Kepp has to face the righties that eat him up.  Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.  Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere, Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.


Unfortunately Roy and Lance's value probably wouldnt bring back much in the way of building blocks...if they agreed to a trade.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2009, 02:14:43 pm »
IF the team can stay healthy, I tend to agree with Jacksonian. You add a guy like Wolf and subtract a guy like cooper, the outcome could be different and is not blow-up-worthy, IMO.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #79 on: September 22, 2009, 02:31:49 pm »
You're much more confident in the lineup than I.  Matsui/Keppinger are a terrible #2 combo, b/c either Matsui gets 80% of the time, or Kepp has to face the righties that eat him up.  Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.  Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere, Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.
There are some guys on the market this winter that could plug some holes in the lineup and rotation. Not real expensive guys either. But it would include having to possibly give a couple of guys away and maybe eating a little salary or having a couple of expensive bench guys.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 02:35:32 pm by Jose Cruz III »
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2009, 02:47:24 pm »
There are some guys on the market this winter that could plug some holes in the ... rotation.

Step 1: Convince Drinkin' Dave that he really wants to be in Houston.
Step 2: Consult with him re: available arms and pick 'em up.
Step 3: Let him do his thing and hope the magic isn't gone (or that he doesn't go the way of Leo Mazzone)...

Or am I just an idiot a tad off base on my thoughts on the skills of Drinkin' Dave?
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2009, 02:52:09 pm »
Step 1: Convince Drinkin' Dave that he really wants to be in Houston.
Step 2: Consult with him re: available arms and pick 'em up.
Step 3: Let him do his thing and hope the magic isn't gone (or that he doesn't go the way of Leo Mazzone)...

Or am I just an idiot a tad off base on my thoughts on the skills of Drinkin' Dave?

This would be a worthy approach, but it doesn't solve the hitting problems.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2009, 02:53:25 pm »
Step 1: Convince Drinkin' Dave that he really wants to be in Houston.
Step 2: Consult with him re: available arms and pick 'em up.
Step 3: Let him do his thing and hope the magic isn't gone (or that he doesn't go the way of Leo Mazzone)...

Or am I just an idiot a tad off base on my thoughts on the skills of Drinkin' Dave?

Are you talking about Duncan as manager or Pitching Coach? I can't imagine him making a lateral move without coming with the Tank Commander. Unless his salary was maybe doubled and McLane is not the guy to do that. Nor should he be.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2009, 03:05:42 pm »
This would be a worthy approach, but it doesn't solve the hitting problems.

Yep, that's why I took the hitting part out of JCIIIs quote.  Jeez, do I seriously have to come up with all the armchair GM fixes by myself?

Are you talking about Duncan as manager or Pitching Coach? I can't imagine him making a lateral move without coming with the Tank Commander. Unless his salary was maybe doubled and McLane is not the guy to do that. Nor should he be.

The pipe dream is for a lateral move.  After all, his contract is expiring and it wasn't the Astros/Astros that ran his son outta town...
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2009, 03:32:12 pm »
Berkman's decline is at the point where we can no longer expect his peak performance.

Berkman hit .312 last year, I wouldn't say that his decline is at the point where we can no longer expect peak performance.  Seems to me Berkman's biggest issue this year in just injuries.

Pence is NOT a #5 hitter.

Can't disagree there.

As for the pitching, Valverde will likely go elsewhere,

He very well could.

Roy is past his peak and can be counted on to leave several starts a year with injury, and you have a complete crapshoot past that.

Roy may be past his prime, but he is still one of the better pitchers in baseball and we still have Wandy Rodriguez as the #2 pitcher and he has been very good this year.  Plus, Bud Norris does appear to have a bright future.  All rookie pitchers are inconsistent, but to post as many good starts as he has so far is a very good sign.  I would be OK with him as the #4 starter next year if we had a reasonably reliable #5 starter.  And he would make a great #5 starter.  A combination of Felipe Paulino and Bud Norris as the #4 and #5 starters is very good in my book.  Just add a reliable #3 starter.

Personally, I'd deal Roy and Lance and reboot the whole thing.
Not going to happen.

Outlawscotty

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2009, 03:35:02 pm »
This would be a worthy approach, but it doesn't solve the hitting problems.

Wouldn't this tend to be a reasonable problem to fix if there was a xerox machine for the lineup card available?

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2009, 03:44:42 pm »
This team has managed to stay in a reloading rather than a rebuilding mode for almost two decades now. That's a very, very long time not to have to press the reset button.

As a fan, my only real regret in case of a complete teardown would be having to watch Berkman and Oswalt leave. We never had to experience that with Bagwell and Biggio, and it would be painful to do so with Berkman and Oswalt.

This team is more than a couple of tweaks away from long-term success again. They might be able to shuffle a few things around and contend for second place or a wild card in the next year or two if things break well, but at some point the Astros are going to have to pay the piper, clean house and start from scratch. They peaked in 1998 and then again in 2004. Those are a long time ago now.

The hardest part is getting past dismantling the team, like in the late '80s, in order to get all the young guys in place, like in the early '90s. Particularly with the poor state of the farm system, it might not go so quickly this time.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 03:46:17 pm by Arky Vaughan »

juliogotay

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2009, 04:05:45 pm »
This team has managed to stay in a reloading rather than a rebuilding mode for almost two decades now. That's a very, very long time not to have to press the reset button.

As a fan, my only real regret in case of a complete teardown would be having to watch Berkman and Oswalt leave. We never had to experience that with Bagwell and Biggio, and it would be painful to do so with Berkman and Oswalt.

This team is more than a couple of tweaks away from long-term success again. They might be able to shuffle a few things around and contend for second place or a wild card in the next year or two if things break well, but at some point the Astros are going to have to pay the piper, clean house and start from scratch. They peaked in 1998 and then again in 2004. Those are a long time ago now.

The hardest part is getting past dismantling the team, like in the late '80s, in order to get all the young guys in place, like in the early '90s. Particularly with the poor state of the farm system, it might not go so quickly this time.

Well said. The young talent available does not remotely resemble 1991. Perhaps in 2-3 years it will.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2009, 04:07:27 pm »
This team has managed to stay in a reloading rather than a rebuilding mode for almost two decades now. That's a very, very long time not to have to press the reset button.

As a fan, my only real regret in case of a complete teardown would be having to watch Berkman and Oswalt leave. We never had to experience that with Bagwell and Biggio, and it would be painful to do so with Berkman and Oswalt.

This team is more than a couple of tweaks away from long-term success again. They might be able to shuffle a few things around and contend for second place or a wild card in the next year or two if things break well, but at some point the Astros are going to have to pay the piper, clean house and start from scratch. They peaked in 1998 and then again in 2004. Those are a long time ago now.

The hardest part is getting past dismantling the team, like in the late '80s, in order to get all the young guys in place, like in the early '90s. Particularly with the poor state of the farm system, it might not go so quickly this time.
I'm not asking this to disagree with you so much as because I don't really know: Who did the Astros trade away in the late 80's/ early 90's, besides Larry Andersen, that got them core players for their 90's resurgence? Don't you think it's possible that, instead of trading away the faces of the franchise (Roy and Lance), they could simply refrain from spending so much on semi-expensive veterans who might clog the roster, while gradually working in the younger guys who are coming up? Obviously they need to keep having strong drafts as well.

I have major doubts that they will be a contending team in 2010, barring a FA spending spree, but I also think its not impossible- if they strike gold/lightning on two of Norris, Paulino or Trinidad, then things could get interesting. Regardless, by 2011 it seems like they might have some pretty good prospects knocking on the door.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2009, 04:26:11 pm »
I'm not asking this to disagree with you so much as because I don't really know: Who did the Astros trade away in the late 80's/ early 90's, besides Larry Andersen, that got them core players for their 90's resurgence?

Glenn Davis brought back a good return.

Don't you think it's possible that, instead of trading away the faces of the franchise (Roy and Lance), they could simply refrain from spending so much on semi-expensive veterans who might clog the roster, while gradually working in the younger guys who are coming up? Obviously they need to keep having strong drafts as well.



Yes, I do agree.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #90 on: September 22, 2009, 04:58:16 pm »
Who did the Astros trade away in the late 80's/ early 90's, besides Larry Andersen, that got them core players for their 90's resurgence?
Looks like some of the key trades are:
Dec 8 1987 - traded Ed Whited(IF) and Mike Stoker(P) to Atl-N for Rafael Ramirez(IF)
Jul 23 1988 - traded Mark Bailey(C) to Mtl-N for Casey Candaele(IF)
Dec 4 1988 - traded Todd McClure(P) to Min-A for Mark Portugal(P).
Aug 30 1990 - traded Larry Andersen(P) to Bos-A for Jeff Bagwell(IF)
Jan 10 1991 - traded Glenn Davis(IF) to Bal-A for Steve Finley(OF), Pete Harnisch(P), and Curt Schilling(P)
Dec 2 1993 - traded Doug Jones(P) and Jeff Juden(P) to Phi-N for Mitch Williams(P)
Dec 10 1993 - traded Eric Anthony(OF) to Sea-A for Mike Felder(OF) and Mike Hampton(P)
Dec 28 1994 - traded Ken Caminiti(IF), Andujar Cedeno(IF), Steve Finley(OF), Roberto Petagine(IF), Brian Williams(P) and Sean Fesh(P) to SD-N for Derek Bell(OF), Doug Brocail(P), Ricky Gutierrez(IF), Pedro Martinez(P), Phil Plantier(OF), and Craig Shipley(IF). 
Dec 20 1995 - traded Dave Veres(P) and Raul Chavez(C) to Mtl-N for Sean Berry(IF)
Dec 10 1996 - traded Doug Brocail(P), Brian Hunter(OF), Todd Jones(P), Orlando Miller(IF) and cash to Det-A for Brad Ausmus(C), Jose Lima(P), Trever Miller(P), CJ Nitkowski(P), and Daryle Ward(IF)

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #91 on: September 22, 2009, 09:55:05 pm »
The first thing a successful major league manager must do is establish trust in the clubhouse. His players have to know that he's honest with them, that he has their back and will always be there for them. Cooper burned some bridges last year when his veterans became convinced he lied to them during a team meeting.

He lost a few players that day, then finished the job this season with two incidents. Two veterans say that on the day Aaron Boone tearfully told his teammates he was to undergo heart surgery, Cooper used the moment to get on his guys for not playing harder. To say his timing was bad would be an understatement.

And when Pudge Rodriguez broke the all-time record for games caught, Cooper didn't offer congratulations until the next day.

And then there were the strategic issues. These normally don't even come up, because most managers do pretty much the same things.

Yet Cooper never was consistent. He'd play the infield in early in a game, play it back late. He yanked pitchers with little rhyme or reason and was unable to explain things.

His moves were so unor-thodox that opposing third-base coaches twice began screaming at their players, thinking the Astros had some kind of trick play on.


Dick

Surprisingly, no mention of the lineup card issue.

Lance adds from the same article:

“I believe you can trace this current situation to the failure to re-sign Andy,” Berkman said. “That's the one thing that has happened over the last four years that has caused this organization to be where it is today. That was the beginning of a chain of events.“
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Reuben

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #92 on: September 22, 2009, 10:03:41 pm »
failure to re-sign Pettitte? What the fuck??
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Jose Cruz III

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2009, 12:06:57 am »


Lance adds from the same article:

“I believe you can trace this current situation to the failure to re-sign Andy,” Berkman said. “That's the one thing that has happened over the last four years that has caused this organization to be where it is today. That was the beginning of a chain of events.“
Don't forget Jason Lane.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 12:09:32 am by Jose Cruz III »
Unga bungaed by the BBGs.

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das

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2009, 06:37:11 am »
Lance adds from the same article:

“I believe you can trace this current situation to the failure to re-sign Andy,” Berkman said. “That's the one thing that has happened over the last four years that has caused this organization to be where it is today. That was the beginning of a chain of events.“

That comment irks me on multiple levels.  Berkman needs to shut his yap.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

Arky Vaughan

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2009, 07:33:15 am »
I'm not asking this to disagree with you so much as because I don't really know: Who did the Astros trade away in the late 80's/ early 90's, besides Larry Andersen, that got them core players for their 90's resurgence? Don't you think it's possible that, instead of trading away the faces of the franchise (Roy and Lance), they could simply refrain from spending so much on semi-expensive veterans who might clog the roster, while gradually working in the younger guys who are coming up? Obviously they need to keep having strong drafts as well.

I have major doubts that they will be a contending team in 2010, barring a FA spending spree, but I also think its not impossible- if they strike gold/lightning on two of Norris, Paulino or Trinidad, then things could get interesting. Regardless, by 2011 it seems like they might have some pretty good prospects knocking on the door.

I agree with that. I did not intend to imply that it means trading everyone away. A lot of members of the '80s teams got old and were simply allowed to depart. But I do wonder whether Berkman and Oswalt want to use what's left of the primes of their careers on a team that's rebuilding in a series of losing seasons. Oswalt and Berkman could be on the downside of their 30s by the time the right pieces are in place to make another run.

The semi-expensive veterans would be good to keep off the roster at this point. They should be focusing on young players long-term rather than filling holes short-term. Either that, or go out and spend another $50 million this winter, but that's not going to happen.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 07:35:06 am by Arky Vaughan »

Lumpus

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2009, 08:26:23 am »
This is great news...I called into the Kevin Kennedy MLB on XM show and talked a little bit about the reasons that Coop was fired, but unfortunately I ended with "Tony La Russa would be great for this franchise."  I had radio and caffeine jitters, and I apologize for that one, I couldn't think of anything to say.  I really meant to recommend Brad Ausmus but my mind went blank (its default state).

Actually that idea isn't completely insane...

Last year at about this time, there was considerable rumor and speculation that La Russa wanted a change of scenery away from St. Louis.  Supposedly, he wanted a 'challenge' to start all over again somewhere else.  Now it is a year later and his contract is up for renewal in St. Louis....

Obviously, the Cards are in a nice position to contend for the next couple of years - but if the 'Smartest Man in Baseball' really wants a real challenge, we'd definitely qualify.

On the other hand (Reality Check) - La Russa would demand way more autonomy and control over player personnel than the grocer (or Wade/Smith) are ever likely to give him.

Compromise - Dave Duncan, the Card's pitching coach looks to be ready for the top job somewhere and is allegedly good at player development.  This sounds ideal, assuming we have any young players to develop.

Wild Idea from Left Field - Bobby Valentine.  He'd bring aggressive 'Japan-style' play, if nothing else.  It would probably end badly... but it would be amusing to watch.

/almost makes me nostalgic for Jimmy Williams (at least he demanded that the players learn basic fundamentals, like bunting)

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2009, 09:00:16 am »


Wild Idea from Left Field - Bobby Valentine.  He'd bring aggressive 'Japan-style' play, if nothing else.  It would probably end badly... but it would be amusing to watch.

Not no but HELL no.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2009, 09:18:45 am »
Fucksticks @ ESPN said something about Showalter being considered.  At least if that happens, all the grocer has to do is fire him to go to the World Series.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2009, 09:33:57 am »
Where is Footer on all of this? She hasn't had a significant blog entry since last Monday (I think we can ignore the "Here's the Pitch" pitch on Sunday).
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #100 on: September 23, 2009, 09:42:42 am »
Where is Footer on all of this? She hasn't had a significant blog entry since last Monday (I think we can ignore the "Here's the Pitch" pitch on Sunday).

She and Cooper were lovers (actually it was Cooper and Wade in an intense three way).  She needs time.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #101 on: September 23, 2009, 10:04:24 am »
Where is Footer on all of this? She hasn't had a significant blog entry since last Monday (I think we can ignore the "Here's the Pitch" pitch on Sunday).

Per her Twitter updates she has been in Dayton with 'some family stuff to tend to.'  'Back' as of today.
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2009, 10:08:28 am »
Where is Footer on all of this? She hasn't had a significant blog entry since last Monday (I think we can ignore the "Here's the Pitch" pitch on Sunday).

check her twitter, specifically

I will be away from the team for two more days. Be sure to follow @brianmctaggart for all things Astros. Talk to you Wednesday.
11:53 AM Sep 21st from Tweetie

She's been tweeting on the topic but is defering to McTaggart as this is now his job, not hers.  I'll bet it's a difficult situation for her as she's been the main source for so many years.  Hard to step away and let someone else do it.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #103 on: September 23, 2009, 12:16:59 pm »
i read her, and caught where she replied to someone
who asked about valentine, and she said that she
would expect him to at least get a phone call
..because chickens are decent people.

GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2009, 01:37:17 pm »
i read her, and caught where she replied to someone
who asked about valentine, and she said that she
would expect him to at least get a phone call

BV: You've got a Valentine!

Wade: ...

BV: Is this about managing in America again?

Wade: ...

BV: The answer is YES!  BY GOD YES!

Wade: ...

BV: They sell soiled undies in vending machines here, get me the hell home!

Wade: ...

BV: You convinced me.  I'll come immediately.

Wade: HAHAHAHAHAHA! Sucker.

BV: Dicks.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2009, 01:49:24 pm »
Bobby V loves living and working in Japan.  When other MLB jobs have come up recently, he's said that he wouldn't leave unless he was bowled over by the opportunity.
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Oh Happy Day
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2009, 02:00:22 pm »
Earlier this year, in a fit of insanity, I mentioned Valentine as a replacement for Cooper. Now that Cooper is gone, I have regained (a measure) of sense. No Valentine, no way. If he isn't the most despicable cocksucker to ever wear a major league uniform, he is in the top two
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2009, 02:17:02 pm »
Earlier this year, in a fit of insanity, I mentioned Valentine as a replacement for Cooper. Now that Cooper is gone, I have regained (a measure) of sense. No Valentine, no way. If he isn't the most despicable cocksucker to ever wear a major league uniform, he is in the top two

Not even close, unfortunately.  But, don't want him in an Astros major league uniform.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2009, 02:29:32 pm »
No on Valentine. He seems to always need to be the story.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2009, 02:47:51 pm »
Earlier this year, in a fit of insanity, I mentioned Valentine as a replacement for Cooper. Now that Cooper is gone, I have regained (a measure) of sense. No Valentine, no way. If he isn't the most despicable cocksucker to ever wear a major league uniform fake eyeglasses and a moustache, he is in the top two

FIFM

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2009, 04:07:24 pm »
I agree with that. I did not intend to imply that it means trading everyone away. A lot of members of the '80s teams got old and were simply allowed to depart. But I do wonder whether Berkman and Oswalt want to use what's left of the primes of their careers on a team that's rebuilding in a series of losing seasons. Oswalt and Berkman could be on the downside of their 30s by the time the right pieces are in place to make another run.

The semi-expensive veterans would be good to keep off the roster at this point. They should be focusing on young players long-term rather than filling holes short-term. Either that, or go out and spend another $50 million this winter, but that's not going to happen.

You nailed it IMO.  The duct tape and bailing wire approach to fixing the glaring issues this team has had the last 4 years needs to be scrapped.  I think Berkman and Oswalt could have several very good years left.  But by the time it takes our farm system to resupply the Astros with legit talent, they will just be overpriced vets in their declines -- especially since neither of them is likely to age all that gracefully (Roy because of his build and Lance, who isn't the most fit cat in the world).  If we trade them now, we accelerate the rebuilding process and free up payroll for free agent acquisitions for such time the club is ready to make a move.

At least we have competent talent evaluators and have done a better job signing our picks the last two drafts.  That is the most important thing that will eventually lead the Astros back to success.  It is my humble opinion that trading assets such as Berkman and Oswalt will expedite rebuilding.  (I doubt we could get much of anything for Lee given his backloaded contract). 

Of course, both Berkman and Oswalt have no trade clauses.  I am not sure Berkman would waive his.  I am almost positive Roy would.  I would wait until the first half of next season to explore trades.  Let them bounce back and perform.  Find a contender with a good farm system who believes they need a stud pitcher or stud hitter to get them over the top.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2009, 04:11:04 pm »
I'd try to find somebody who would overpay for Pence, but I realize that Pam won't ever let that happen.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Clark in Denver

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2009, 04:47:11 pm »
Don't need to worry about Valentine.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/09/23/2009-09-23_bobby_valentine.html#ixzz0Ry7HaANg

Quote
It appears that BOBBY Valentine won't be unemployed for long.

Television industry and baseball sources say Valentine, completing his final season as manager of the Chiba Lotte Marines of Japan's Pacific League, is on the verge of signing a lucrative multi-year deal with ESPN.

Quote
If he comes to ESPN, it may be under circumstances similar to those in 2003. That's when ESPN put a "protection" clause in Bobby V.'s contact.

Back then, ESPN suits set a precedent for hiring a manager-in-waiting. As part of the three-year offer negotiated with Valentine, network executives insisted that Valentine pay a monetary penalty if he bolted for a manager's job.
Astros Fan: 1978-2011

MRaup

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2009, 07:01:36 pm »
Thank you ESPN. You can have him!
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toddthebod

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2009, 08:37:35 pm »
I kinda like the Buck Showalter possibility I've seen floating around.
Boom!

austro

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2009, 08:52:18 pm »
I kinda like the Buck Showalter possibility I've seen floating around.

A return to the Terry Collins, high-strung, you'll-do-it-my-way days? No thanks.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 08:55:43 pm by austro »
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2009, 08:54:05 pm »
Buck showalter? Seriously?
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2009, 09:01:06 pm »
call me Joe Astros Fan, but I would like to see Bagwell given a chance (if he wants it)

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2009, 09:02:39 pm »
Can I call you something worse than that?
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roadrunner

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2009, 09:05:24 pm »
Can I call you something worse than that?

I wouldn't expect anything else

austro

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #120 on: September 23, 2009, 09:16:41 pm »
Can I call you something worse than that?

Roadrunner gets a lifetime free pass for his "Dude?" post.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Ron Brand

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #121 on: September 23, 2009, 11:12:12 pm »
I'd try to find somebody who would overpay for Pence, but I realize that Pam won't ever let that happen.

I was trying to find video of Pam reacting to someone proposing a trade of PENCE!!! but all I could find was this footage of her visit to Spring Training in 2007, when she first met young Hunter.
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austro

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #122 on: September 24, 2009, 11:10:08 am »
I was trying to find video of Pam reacting to someone proposing a trade of PENCE!!! but all I could find was this footage of her visit to Spring Training in 2007, when she first met young Hunter.

Taras has taught you well.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Taras Bulba

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #123 on: September 24, 2009, 11:41:50 am »
I was trying to find video of Pam reacting to someone proposing a trade of PENCE!!! but all I could find was this footage of her visit to Spring Training in 2007, when she first met young Hunter.

Very well done.  I think you nailed it.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #124 on: September 25, 2009, 01:36:10 pm »
Yep, that's why I took the hitting part out of JCIIIs quote.  Jeez, do I seriously have to come up with all the armchair GM fixes by myself?

The pipe dream is for a lateral move.  After all, his contract is expiring and it wasn't the Astros/Astros that ran his son outta town...


http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2009/09/duncan_likely_n.html

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #125 on: September 25, 2009, 01:55:49 pm »
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Andyzipp

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #126 on: September 25, 2009, 02:01:11 pm »
he says "right now." maybe he's interested; maybe he's not.

It's kind of a non-story as he SHOULD be concentrating on getting his team ready for the playoffs.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #127 on: September 25, 2009, 02:10:42 pm »
It's kind of a non-story as he SHOULD be concentrating on getting his team ready for the playoffs.

exactly right. it was the correct response.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Andyzipp

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #128 on: September 25, 2009, 02:16:24 pm »
exactly right. it was the correct response.

BTW, Happy Birthday Jim!  It's tomorrow yes?

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #129 on: September 25, 2009, 02:27:25 pm »
BTW, Happy Birthday Jim!  It's tomorrow yes?

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #130 on: September 25, 2009, 02:44:06 pm »
How do you light all of the candles before the first completely melts?
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #131 on: September 25, 2009, 02:45:16 pm »
How do you light all of the candles before the first completely melts?

no problem with a blowtorch
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #132 on: September 25, 2009, 02:54:58 pm »
no problem with a blowtorch

Don't you mean a flame thrower? 

p.s. Happy B-day Jim.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #133 on: September 25, 2009, 03:00:39 pm »
Don't you mean a flame thrower? 

p.s. Happy B-day Jim.

yeah, that works well too.

thank you, sir.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #134 on: September 25, 2009, 03:43:12 pm »
Happy birthday Coach!
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #135 on: September 25, 2009, 03:49:24 pm »
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #136 on: September 25, 2009, 04:18:26 pm »
Huh. Didn't know you buy candles at Sam's Club.  You learn something new every day.


Happy Birthday, Jim.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #137 on: September 25, 2009, 04:24:09 pm »
Huh. Didn't know you buy candles at Sam's Club.  You learn something new every day.


Happy Birthday, Jim.

Costco

thanks
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #138 on: September 25, 2009, 05:01:38 pm »
Hey, happy birthday Coach! Best wishes.
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #139 on: September 25, 2009, 05:51:20 pm »
Happy Birthday, old man.  As long as you are kicking, I can safely say I am not nearly the oldest person here.  That seems to mean more to me as the years go by, for some reason.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #140 on: September 25, 2009, 08:28:45 pm »
Happy birthday, Jim.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #141 on: September 27, 2009, 08:53:58 am »
thanks to all.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #142 on: September 27, 2009, 09:51:11 am »
Belated Happy Birthday Jim.

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #143 on: September 27, 2009, 12:24:34 pm »
Thanks, Dale!
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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #144 on: September 27, 2009, 03:25:24 pm »
Happy Belated Birthday JimR!

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Re: Oh Happy Day
« Reply #145 on: September 27, 2009, 10:50:50 pm »
Happy [big number goes here] birthday, Jim!
When the Clark is dead, Spack will eat his spleen. Before he dies, Spack will put his posts under the knife so the Clark will see his threads wiped out forever...