Tommy Manzella

[Noe]

I was at the Round Rock game today (last game of the season).  Nice win for the home team and after the game, I noticed several players hugging John Gall (he announced his retirement after his last at bat, very classy send off by the local crowd), Chris Johnson and Tommy Manzella.  Abercrombie still had a wide grin on his face, taking it all in stride as did Bogesevic (although he did seem a bit put off by the scene around him).

Any way, on his way to the clubhouse, almost in a short sprint, I yell out "Tommy, so I guess you got a call up today?".  He stops looks towards me, gives me a huge grin and then keeps on running to the clubhouse, but he's waving his head up and down and has his thumb up in the air.  That's when I knew he got a call up.  I didn't bother with Johnson, not that I don't like the kid, I do.  But even in this game, I saw very little out of him to warrant really seeing any reason for his promotion.

As far as Manzella though, it was nice to be there to see him celebrate in an understated manner... reminded me of the day I saw Ginter and Ensberg get their call up at the Dell.  That was a bit more dramatic of course, but today you could tell Manzella was really overjoyed with the news.

[juliogotay]

Good for both of them. I hope they get a chance to start a few games but Coop may have to be told to do so.  Johnson had a great August, don't know if its carrying over.

.333 BA, 20 RBI, 7 dingers, .376 OBA, .620 SLG.  Maybe they think he's turned a corner? I doubt he'd be coming up without the strong finish.

[Ron Brand]

Good for both of them. I hope they get a chance to start a few games but Coop may have to be told to do so.  Johnson had a great August, don't know if its carrying over.

.333 BA, 20 RBI, 7 dingers, .376 OBA, .620 SLG.  Maybe they think he's turned a corner? I doubt he'd be coming up without the strong finish.

From McTaggart's tweet:

Cecil Cooper said he spoke with Tejada about losing playing time to Manzella. Same talk with Blum about Chris Johnson to come.

[SaltyParker]

I wouldn't mind seeing Tejada play 3rd a bit while Manzella slides in at SS. 

[Noe]

Good for both of them. I hope they get a chance to start a few games but Coop may have to be told to do so.  Johnson had a great August, don't know if its carrying over.

.333 BA, 20 RBI, 7 dingers, .376 OBA, .620 SLG.  Maybe they think he's turned a corner? I doubt he'd be coming up without the strong finish.

He won't be much on defense.  He looked awful today.  Maybe it was just a one day jitters.

[hostros7]

Crossing fingers, it would be nice to see a miggy-manzella left side of the infield 2010 preview.

[Reuben]

From McTaggart's tweet:

Cooper also claims he convinced Wade to include Johnson in the call-ups (they had to move Hampton to the 60-day DL to create a spot on the 40-man). So from that and his other comments it would seem he's actually eager to see these guys play. Of course, Coop has been known to say one thing and then do the exact opposite of that thing, so who knows.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Cooper also claims he convinced Wade to include Johnson in the call-ups (they had to move Hampton to the 60-day DL to create a spot on the 40-man). So from that and his other comments it would seem he's actually eager to see these guys play. Of course, Coop has been known to say one thing and then do the exact opposite of that thing, so who knows.

maybe it's just me but this sure seems like yet another statement that Cooper didn't need to make to the press.  I don't know if it's my dislike of Coop that makes me see this as Coop is trying to show up Wade.  

eta:
two quotes to be exact

"Tommy was one that we kind of discussed a little bit about possibly bringing and we were both in (agreement)," Cooper said. "Chris was the last one. Chris was not on the roster, so we had to put him on the roster. And that one I kind of pushed a little bit, yeah. It's good to have them be with us and get a chance to learn, learn what it's about to play at this level and hopefully get a chance to play against Milwaukee and maybe a St. Louis where they can see what it's like to be against some of the real good teams and kind of be in the pennant race a little bit."

As though Coop is now the champion of player development.  Nicely done...

"It won't be a lot, but they will get a chance to play," Cooper said. "The fans will get a chance to see them. I talked to Tejada just a little bit today about it, and I'm going to talk some more to him and Blum and also with Booney tomorrow and just explain to them that these kids need some exposure and it might cost a little bit of playing time. It won't be a lot, but they will get a chance to get their feet wet."

And this sure seems like the cart going before the horse.  Would it not be better to talk to the Vets FIRST, then announce it to the world.... Hmmm... novel idea, I'm sure. 

[JimR]

"...a little bit."

he says that one million times.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

"...a little bit."

he says that one million times.

I think "Lil' Bit" is a fine nickname for the mgr who shall not be named...

[BUWebguy]

I liked this sequence:

Coop in McTag's blog, Sept. 6:

"I will say this, I think you'll be surprised," Cooper said. "That's all I'll say. That will give you something to chew on."

Wade via McTag's Twitter, Sept. 7:

GM Ed Wade says not to expect surprises when rosters moves are announced after game. Only going to be 2 or 3 players called up.

More than anything else, the fact that these two are STILL not on the same wavelength makes me believe Cooper is not long for this team.

[hostros7]

More than anything else, the fact that these two are STILL not on the same wavelength makes me believe Cooper is not long for this team.

Stop getting my hopes up.  I've recently started to fear that coop hasn't done enough to lose his job in the eyes of the Astros' brass. There is no basis for that fear, but it keeps me up at night nonetheless. 

[JackAstro]

Stop getting my hopes up.  I've recently started to fear that coop hasn't done enough to lose his job in the eyes of the Astros' brass. There is no basis for that fear, but it keeps me up at night nonetheless. 

First time I've ever thought "oh no" when the Astros were on the winning side of a four-game sweep, for that very reason.

[Mr. Happy]

First time I've ever thought "oh no" when the Astros were on the winning side of a four-game sweep, for that very reason.

Now they're going to go on a wild push toward .500.

[believin]

Stop getting my hopes up.  I've recently started to fear that coop hasn't done enough to lose his job in the eyes of the Astros' brass. There is no basis for that fear, but it keeps me up at night nonetheless. 

If it is true that Cooper convinced Wade to start the clock on a young prospect that Wade & the rest were originally wanting to hold back, I think you have a basis for your fear.  I don't like the idea that Cooper got so much say on this one.  If he really did.

[AtascAstro]

If it is true that Cooper convinced Wade to start the clock on a young prospect that Wade & the rest were originally wanting to hold back, I think you have a basis for your fear.  I don't like the idea that Cooper got so much say on this one.  If he really did.

How does putting Chris Johnson back on the 40-man affect his service time / status?  He's already been with the major league team this year so does recalling him have any real cost to the Astros future control of his contract?

[JimR]

How does putting Chris Johnson back on the 40-man affect his service time / status?  He's already been with the major league team this year so does recalling him have any real cost to the Astros future control of his contract?

i think this is his first time up.

[AtascAstro]

i think this is his first time up.

Ooops, complete mistake on my part.  I'm not really sure why I thought he had been up at some point during the season.  Sure seems like everybody else has.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Ooops, complete mistake on my part.  I'm not really sure why I thought he had been up at some point during the season.  Sure seems like everybody else has.

It's an understandable mistake.  It's quite possible that he was called up but Coop never knew it.

[MusicMan]

Ooops, complete mistake on my part.  I'm not really sure why I thought he had been up at some point during the season.  Sure seems like everybody else has.

Why would Blum call up his own replacement?

[Guinness]

Why would Blum call up his own replacement?

Because that's how good a manager he is.

[AtascAstro]

Why would Blum call up his own replacement?

Because on this team, the best way for a veteran to gurantee every day playing time is to get a rookie backup on the bench.

[VirtualBob]

Because on this team, the best way for a veteran to gurantee every day playing time is to get a rookie backup on the bench.

nominated

[Fredia]

maybe he had a previous engagement?

[SaltyParker]

Manzella not playing today either. I thought for sure Cooper would let him play in this day game. Perhaps Wade will have to force the issue.

[Ron Brand]

Pinwheel had a quote from Cooper in his column today that was something to the effect of "fans pay to see their guys play" which he interpreted as being the regulars. Does that mean he'll play the callups on the road? Maybe.

[JimR]

Pinwheel had a quote from Cooper in his column today that was something to the effect of "fans pay to see their guys play" which he interpreted as being the regulars. Does that mean he'll play the callups on the road? Maybe.

so, Johnson is "their guy?" not Keppinger?

[Ron Brand]

so, Johnson is "their guy?" not Keppinger?

Impossible to say. Keppinger sure seems like a solid ballplayer to me.

[Mr. Happy]

so, Johnson is "their guy?" not Keppinger?

Cooper's use of subs is downright embarassing. The fans know it is over for this year. I'm telling you: it's the march toward .500.

[Reuben]

Pinwheel had a quote from Cooper in his column today that was something to the effect of "fans pay to see their my guys play" which he interpreted as being the regulars Chris Johnson.

RBTLFY (read between the lines for you).

[SaltyParker]

Cooper's use of subs is downright embarassing. The fans know it is over for this year. I'm telling you: it's the march toward .500.

I do believe you are correct sir. Cooper is putting his own self interest above that of the fans or the team as a whole.

[Reuben]

Cooper's use of subs is downright embarassing. The fans know it is over for this year. I'm telling you: it's the march toward .500.

I do believe you are correct sir. Cooper is putting his own self interest above that of the fans or the team as a whole.

I think this is exactly right, and in its utter disregard for helping improve the future of the ballclub it is a sad reflection/extension of Coop's game-by-game managing strategy.

[Ron Brand]

I do believe you are correct sir. Cooper is putting his own self interest above that of the fans or the team as a whole.

It's just as disturbing to read some people's perspective that the team should play the callups in order to not reach .500 and preserve draft picks next year. Insipid.

[SaltyParker]

It's just as disturbing to read some people's perspective that the team should play the callups in order to not reach .500 and preserve draft picks next year. Insipid.

I am not suggesting that. I don't think Manzella hurts the team strength at all by being in the lineup but we will not know if he never sees the field. Personally, I'd give Tejada a try at 3rd with Tommy at SS. Irregardless, there is no reason not to take a look at Tommy at 14 games back, in the middle of September, against the Pirates.

[Ron Brand]

I am not suggesting that. I don't think Manzella hurts the team strength at all by being in the lineup but we will not know if he never sees the field. Personally, I'd give Tejada a try at 3rd with Tommy at SS. Irregardless, there is no reason not to take a look at Tommy at 14 games back in the middle of September against the Pirates.

I don't think anybody on this site is suggesting that. I'm reading it in other places and it's infuriating to see that kind of mentality out there.

I'd like to see Tejada at 3B and Manzella at SS too, not to mention Maysonet getting some 2B time and Keppinger getting some 3B-2B spots as well as Johnson at 3B; there's plenty of time to get these players into games and get some game evaluation going on. It sure as hell doesn't mean you're putting in kids so you can lose games. Idiots.

[Reuben]

Wade has stated since early this season that he would not ask Tejada to switch to 3B during his contract year, out of respect for Miguel and his future, so I highly doubt we'll see both he and Manzella in the lineup together this month. So from Coop's perspective, I'm sure he feels he has a better chance to win more games- i.e. save his job- by having Miggy in there rather than some light-hitting youngster.

The fact that Manzella was just named RR MVP yet can't crack Coop's lineup at this point says a lot about the divide between Wade and Cooper.

[SaltyParker]

Wade has stated since early this season that he would not ask Tejada to switch to 3B during his contract year, out of respect for Miguel and his future,

I think Miggy knows that playing 3B will enhance his future prospects here or elsewhere and that's why he said he would be happy to play some at third. I can understand Wade's statement but since Miggy has in essence volunteered his services at 3rd., it would seem to make sense for the team and all concerned.

[OregonStrosFan]

so, Johnson is "their guy?" not Keppinger?

FWIW, Kepp has been unavailable a number of games this week due to back issues. \


ETA: He came in as a PH and stayed in at 2B today, so guess the back issues have subsided somewhat.

[JimR]

"Irregardless?"

[Ron Brand]

"Irregardless?"

Coach is a stern taskmaster.

[homer]

"Irregardless?"

Supposably.

[Mr. Happy]

It's just as disturbing to read some people's perspective that the team should play the callups in order to not reach .500 and preserve draft picks next year. Insipid.

I wasn't meaning that at all. I think that the organization needs to evaluate its talent against real big league pitching, especially since we've been out of it. What would be insipid would be dogging the veterans to reach the putrid .500 mark, like that matters.

[Ron Brand]

I wasn't meaning that at all. I think that the organization needs to evaluate its talent against real big league pitching, especially since we've been out of it. What would be insipid would be dogging the veterans to reach the putrid .500 mark, like that matters.

I know - like I wrote earlier, I don't think anybody on this board thinks that the callups should be played in order to not reach .500. It's something I've read more and more of in other places and I'm amazed at that kind of thinking.

[JimR]

I know - like I wrote earlier, I don't think anybody on this board thinks that the callups should be played in order to not reach .500. It's something I've read more and more of in other places and I'm amazed at that kind of thinking.

stop reading in those places.

[Ron Brand]

stop reading in those places.

I don't know if they're just expanding their range or if it's the work of one or two nefarious morons, but I see crap like that in more places than I used to. I feel like our little corner is getting smaller.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't know if they're just expanding their range or if it's the work of one or two nefarious morons, but I see crap like that in more places than I used to. I feel like our little corner is getting smaller.

But it is still our corner. I hang out here because there are people who are smarter and funnier than me, who know this game better than I do and love the Astros as much as I do.

[Ron Brand]

But it is still our corner. I hang out here because there are people who are smarter and funnier than me, who know this game better than I do and love the Astros as much as I do.

Amen.

[Noe]

What is disturbing about Cooper's comments is that fans get to say who plays and who does not.  There was a little of that during 1998 when Houston was loaded and won 106 games.  Down the stretch, instead of resting Bagwell and Biggio, Dierker was ordered by McLane not to rest them on the weekends in home games.  Apparently someone who drove from So-Tex wrote McLane a letter voicing their displeasure at coming all that way from the valley, only to see the bench players start and Bagwell and Biggio sit out one Sunday game.  It was not enough for this one particular fan to see Bagwell and Biggio that Saturday night play, they wanted to see them again on Sunday before they went back home.

So a couple of things:

1. This team is not the same as the 1998 team, far from it.
2. Miguel Tejada is not Jeff Bagwell nor Craig Biggio in the eyes of fans.  Oh he's a great player (or was a great player) but he's not a guy who played his entire career here and has the same appeal as Bagwell, Biggio or even Berkman.
3. Fans care about winning more than anything else.  A defensive wizard at shortstop makes the pitching spectacular (from an above average status).  If, for instance, Wandy Rodriquez is supposed to be the next great pitcher in Houston, fans will love to watch him work and putting a superior shortstop behind him would contribute to that greatness.  So it's not about throwing games away, it is actually about trying to win and why not get the pitchers used to the idea of a very good shortstop behind them that very well may be the guy that is taking up that spot next year (whether fans like it or not!).

I think Cooper just doesn't know how to win baseball games with the formula of pitching+defense+just enough offense.  He was an offensive minded player and played in the American League for a good long while.  If Houston is to get back to being a good team, then pitching (whether that is Oswalt, Wandy, Paulino, Norris and Moehler next year or one more FA starter) will need to carry the day.  Defense will need to come right behind that.  Cooper treated Michael Bourn like a bad player last year because of offense only... he never to my knowledge gave Bourn any credit for his outstanding defense (that he displayed last year as he has this year).  At one time, they even had Hunter Pence in centerfield and that is a big joke and mockery to good baseball.  It's good offensive minded baseball, but you're going to lose without pitching and defense.

The time is now to see how good the defense will be up the middle.  End of story.

[MikeyBoy]

I think Cooper just doesn't know how to win baseball games with the formula of pitching+defense+just enough offense.  He was an offensive minded player and played in the American League for a good long while.  If Houston is to get back to being a good team, then pitching (whether that is Oswalt, Wandy, Paulino, Norris and Moehler next year or one more FA starter) will need to carry the day.  Defense will need to come right behind that.  Cooper treated Michael Bourn like a bad player last year because of offense only... he never to my knowledge gave Bourn any credit for his outstanding defense (that he displayed last year as he has this year).  At one time, they even had Hunter Pence in centerfield and that is a big joke and mockery to good baseball.  It's good offensive minded baseball, but you're going to lose without pitching and defense.

This post makes me feel all funny.

[JimR]

no one knows if Manzella can help win games, and that's the point.

[Reuben]

according to Levine, "Cecil Cooper said he wants to get shortstop Tommy Manzella a start on the six-game road trip beginning today."
A start. Better make it count, Tommy- no pressure.
Link

[Matt]

according to Levine, "Cecil Cooper said he wants to get shortstop Tommy Manzella a start on the six-game road trip beginning today."
A start. Better make it count, Tommy- no pressure.
Link

If Tommy starts too much the GIDP rate per game will drop though!

[Noe]

according to Levine, "Cecil Cooper said he wants to get shortstop Tommy Manzella a start on the six-game road trip beginning today."
A start. Better make it count, Tommy- no pressure.
Link

So we'll know after game five of the roadie just how real this might be.  My guess is that it's a 50-50 chance of happening.

[Bench]

So we'll know after game five of the roadie just how real this might be.  My guess is that it's a 50-50 chance of happening.

It's not today:

alysonfooterAstros lineup: Bourn CF, Keppinger 2B, Puma 1B, Lee LF, Tejada SS, Pence RF, Blum 3B, Coste C Oswalt P
/tweet

[BudGirl]

It's not today:

alysonfooterAstros lineup: Bourn CF, Keppinger 2B, Puma 1B, Lee LF, Tejada SS, Pence RF, Blum 3B, Coste C Oswalt P
/tweet

Even with the following.

Valverde not here. Still ailing. Coop: "we'll see if he can make it tomorrow."

Puma out with back and hip issues. Coop: "he said he couldn't go." Erstad also out with sore right shoulder

(Blum in place of Berkman)

[SaltyParker]

Now it's:

Bourn
Matsui
Pence
Lee
Tejada
Blum
Keppinger
Coste

[Noe]

Cecil Cooper's Modus Operandi:

"Don't play the bench guys until a starter gets hurt and can't play."

[austro]

Hey, if they were good enough to play, they wouldn't be on the bench, would they? Sheesh.

[Outlawscotty]

nominated

ich dich auch

[Bench]

Today's the day!

alysonfooter:  Manzella is in lineup! Playing shortstop and hitting eighth.
/tweet

[MusicMan]

Cecil Cooper's Modus Operandi:

"Don't play the bench guys until a starter gets hurt and can't play."

"Wally Pipp is a veteran.  That Gehrig guy can just stay on the bench until Wally can't go out there."

[Reuben]

"Wally Pipp is a veteran.  That Gehrig guy can just stay on the bench until Wally can't go out there."

"Tell you what: Lou can pinch-run for our slow pinch-hitters if they get on base."

[jester9450]

Is he really that good to move miggy to thrid.

[MusicMan]

Is he really that good to move miggy to thrid.

1.  Manzella's hitting has nothing to do with moving Miggy to 3rd.
2.  Miggy will not be a SS on next year's team, regardless of Manzella.

[Mr. Happy]

1.  Manzella's hitting has nothing to do with moving Miggy to 3rd.
2.  Miggy will not be a SS on next year's team, regardless of Manzella.

In my view, Miguel Tejada is no longer capable of playing shortstop in an acceptable manner. The range is gone.

[SaltyParker]

In my view, Miguel Tejada is no longer capable of playing shortstop in an acceptable manner. The range is gone.

I will be surprised if he plays SS where ever he ends up next year. I think that Tejada himself realizes that will be of increased value to someone as a third baseman. That's why he volunteered to play third this season when it came up. Just my opinion.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Despite the loss of range, his arm strength is still an plus, and that makes the move to 3b that much more inevitable.

[JimR]

In my view, Miguel Tejada is no longer capable of playing shortstop in an acceptable manner. The range is gone.

i think this assessment is a tad harsh.

[HudsonHawk]

i think this assessment is a tad harsh.

I agree.  I think his SS play has been fine.  Better than I expected, actually.

[Reuben]

I will be surprised if he plays SS where ever he ends up next year. I think that Tejada himself realizes that will be of increased value to someone as a third baseman. That's why he volunteered to play third this season when it came up. Just my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tejada volunteered to move to third next year, because he likes it here and wants to come back. That said, I don't think he has publicly said he wouldn't move during the year, however, Wade has said he wouldn't ask Miguel to move in the middle of his contract year, and I'm guessing he may have been getting signals from Miguel or his agent that Miguel prefers to stay at SS for now.

I think Tejada figures that most MLB teams know he could handle the transition to 3B pretty easily, given a spring training's worth of learning, and that he doesn't need to prove that now in order to market himself this winter.

[HudsonHawk]

I think Tejada figures that most MLB teams know he could handle the transition to 3B pretty easily, given a spring training's worth of learning, and that he doesn't need to prove that now in order to market himself this winter.

If you can play SS, you can play 3B.  3B is where your SS goes when he's lost his range.  2B is where your SS goes when he's lost his arm.  I think Tejada's SS play is quite adequate.  He will have no troulbe transitioning to 3B.

[MusicMan]

If you can play SS, you can play 3B.  3B is where your SS goes when he's lost his range.  2B is where your SS goes when he's lost his arm.  I think Tejada's SS play is quite adequate.  He will have no troulbe transitioning to 3B.

There should be some sort of spectrum to cover this in-game snacks.

[Mr. Happy]

i think this assessment is a tad harsh.

I now agree. His defense has been better than I thought it would be, but there are still a lot of balls that he should be gettting to that he isn't.

[Ron Brand]

He has lost a lot of range, especially as the year wears on, but he makes the most of his positioning. I really hope he comes back as a 3B for Houston next year.

[SaltyParker]

He has lost a lot of range, especially as the year wears on, but he makes the most of his positioning. I really hope he comes back as a 3B for Houston next year.

If there were any plans to position Tejada at third base next year I suspect we would see him get an inning or two over there this year. I would love to see him back, but I have the feeling that it ain't gonna happen. 

[austro]

If there were any plans to position Tejada at third base next year I suspect we would see him get an inning or two over there this year. I would love to see him back, but I have the feeling that it ain't gonna happen. 

I suspect that 3B is one of the places where they're going to try to save some money next year. They'll take Blum/Johnson for $2M (Blum: $1.1M this year, probably close to the same next year; Johnson: league min) rather than Tejada for $5-6M (Tejada: $12M this year, no way he gets that much next year).

[Randy Watson]

Zero reason to keep Tejada unless he wants to play for like $3 million a year cheap.  It's not my money, but if I am going to spend $6 to $8 million on a third basemen, I want him to hit better than Miguel does at this stage of his career and I want him to play at least an adequate level of defense.  It would also be nice if he got on base more and did not lead the league in double plays grounded into for a third year in a row.

He will be 36.  He still can hit for average and doubles.  But his power has diminished greatly since steroid testing has been implemented.  I would hope the team would spend its money on pitching instead of an aging vet who will do nothing but decline.

I sure like Tejada's attitude and love of the game.  But we should be looking for more longterm options at this point since we are not likely to contend for a few years.

[Tralfaz]

His defense has been better than I thought it would be, but there are still a lot of balls that he should be gettting to that he isn't.

Like the balls hit thirty feet over his head that he still jumps for, just on that chance that his flying super power will finally kick in, as JD put it.