Author Topic: Impatience and the other thing  (Read 6649 times)

ferret

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Impatience and the other thing
« on: August 25, 2009, 09:53:35 am »
Roy

"I have two more years. Time is running out. That's why I'm trying to push them not to look two years down the road. ...

"Everyone says we have great prospects in A ball," Oswalt said. "That's great for the organization, but I'm looking at now. I tell Drayton all the time, 'The reason I signed here is I want to win, ... Time is running out on me."

Oswalt said. "I played 10 years and got close, (to winning a WS) but if you don't win the whole thing, it doesn't mean a whole lot."

Lance, says "ehh..."

"We'd all love to do that, and that's why we play. But if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to feel like my career is a bust. If my career would end today, I'd be perfectly happy with everything that's happened. I'd love to win a World Series, but it's not like I spend a whole lot of time saying, 'It doesn't look like we're going to get it done.' You just go out there and play the games."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090824&content_id=6593308&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

JimR

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 10:25:47 am »
Roy

"I have two more years. Time is running out. That's why I'm trying to push them not to look two years down the road. ...

"Everyone says we have great prospects in A ball," Oswalt said. "That's great for the organization, but I'm looking at now. I tell Drayton all the time, 'The reason I signed here is I want to win, ... Time is running out on me."

Oswalt said. "I played 10 years and got close, (to winning a WS) but if you don't win the whole thing, it doesn't mean a whole lot."

Lance, says "ehh..."

"We'd all love to do that, and that's why we play. But if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to feel like my career is a bust. If my career would end today, I'd be perfectly happy with everything that's happened. I'd love to win a World Series, but it's not like I spend a whole lot of time saying, 'It doesn't look like we're going to get it done.' You just go out there and play the games."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090824&content_id=6593308&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

the more i hear and read Roy, the less i like him. i think i am at zero headed toward negative numbers.
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ferret

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 10:45:23 am »
the more i hear and read Roy, the less i like him. i think i am at zero headed toward negative numbers.

And Lance Berkman is reminding me of Glenn Davis and that era.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 11:09:10 am »
the more i hear and read Roy, the less i like him. i think i am at zero headed toward negative numbers.

I think it's politicking...Drayton loves Oswalt and I guess Oswalt is hoping Drayton will respond his whingings by picking up some more pitching in the off-season.  Peavy going to the White Sox probably stoked his fires of discontent.
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 11:24:15 am »
And Lance Berkman is reminding me of Glenn Davis and that era.

How so? I was just a kid then and know nothing more of Davis than his on-field abillities. What was his attitude/character/approach?
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 11:37:21 am »
Next year is Lance Berkman's lame-duck season.  Is that correct?

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 11:49:46 am »
Next year is Lance Berkman's lame-duck season.  Is that correct?

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ferret

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 12:02:43 pm »
How so? I was just a kid then and know nothing more of Davis than his on-field abillities. What was his attitude/character/approach?

Davis was very much the que sera type.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 12:09:34 pm »
Davis was very much the que sera type.

Isn't that sort of preferrable?  Never too high, never too low?  I read what he said but I didn't take his statements as apathy. 

As for Roy, I neither like nor dislike.  He's a thoroughbred horse.  Prance around, strut his stuff, and act the part of "STUD".  He's still one hell of a pitcher.  He's not a leader by any means.  But he's about what I'd expect.  IMO, Oswalt hasn't reached Gas-Can level stupidity with his press quotes but he's showing some potential in that regard. 
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 12:30:49 pm »
Davis was very much the que sera type.


THat was not prototypical of that era of Astros teams though.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 12:36:01 pm »
All I expect out of a player is professionalism, which includes understanding where he stands in conjunction with where the organization is at a given point in time. In my view, Roy's sounding like a crybaby who's about to step into an ant pile.
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roadrunner

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 01:03:14 pm »
Roy has a point, but it gets harder and harder to give a damn about him.

Lance had the opportunity to reach 5/7 status with his career, but his attitude will always leave him lacking.

The best part is Lee isn't even quoted in the article.  Fitting.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 01:08:27 pm »
Roy has a point, but it gets harder and harder to give a damn about him.

Lance had the opportunity to reach 5/7 status with his career, but his attitude will always leave him lacking.

The best part is Lee isn't even quoted in the article.  Fitting.

I think every point you are trying to make is hyperbole.
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roadrunner

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 01:12:29 pm »
I think every point you are trying to make is hyperbole.

Meh, maybe.  It's just hard to feel for these guys.  Maybe I'm the only one.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 01:32:08 pm »
What exactly has Berkman done wrong with this quote?  He's a great player, nothing more, nothing less.  He doesn't spend his time directing the team on what moves should be made or shouldn't be made, he doesn't call out teammates. He's been loyal to the franchise and a good teammate.

The biggest knock on him is either that he's not Jeff Bagwell. Big fucking deal.

roadrunner

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 01:50:23 pm »
What exactly has Berkman done wrong with this quote?  He's a great player, nothing more, nothing less.  He doesn't spend his time directing the team on what moves should be made or shouldn't be made, he doesn't call out teammates. He's been loyal to the franchise and a good teammate.

The biggest knock on him is either that he's not Jeff Bagwell. Big fucking deal.

Nothing is wrong with that.  I just remember worrying about wasting Biggio/Bagwell years.  I really wanted them to get a ring and still want them to go into the Hall so that their years here are recognized.  I don't feel the same about Berkman.  Like I said, that just could be me.  I still love rooting for him.

And to be clear, I don't think the Biggio/Bagwell years were a waste because Houston didn't up with a championship.  Those were great years.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2009, 01:54:18 pm »
What exactly has Berkman done wrong with this quote?  He's a great player, nothing more, nothing less.  He doesn't spend his time directing the team on what moves should be made or shouldn't be made, he doesn't call out teammates. He's been loyal to the franchise and a good teammate.

The biggest knock on him is either that he's not Jeff Bagwell. Big fucking deal.

Berkman is a professional ballplayer. i'm fine with what he said. Roy is all about Roy all the time.
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 02:03:03 pm »
Berkman is a professional ballplayer. i'm fine with what he said. Roy is all about Roy all the time.


I'm really wondering why Roy wants (if he really does) to stay in Houston. In the next two seasons there is little reason to believe that (a) there will an influx of impact-type talent from the farm and (b) that McLane is going on a free agent spending spree. That leaves improvement to come from within (an aging, mature team doesn't normally get better) or trades of which Oswalt is one of the few bargaining chips that could bring any significant talent back and that would be, most likely, young talent. Maybe he's setting up the scene to ask for a trade and putting the turd in the organization's pocket.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2009, 02:05:56 pm »

I'm really wondering why Roy wants (if he really does) to stay in Houston. In the next two seasons there is little reason to believe that (a) there will an influx of impact-type talent from the farm and (b) that McLane is going on a free agent spending spree. That leaves improvement to come from within (an aging, mature team doesn't normally get better) or trades of which Oswalt is one of the few bargaining chips that could bring any significant talent back and that would be, most likely, young talent. Maybe he's setting up the scene to ask for a trade and putting the turd in the organization's pocket.

i'm way past caring about what he wants.
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ferret

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2009, 03:33:41 pm »
What is relevant is what Drayton Mclane thinks.  In the past he's been more impatient than the other thing.  I have not seen any evidence that his mind has been changed.

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2009, 03:36:51 pm »
i'm way past caring about what he wants.

What he wants is only relevant if they ask him to waive his no-trade.  And there's no sign that Drayton will do that.
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2009, 04:49:32 pm »
What exactly does McTaggert mean here with the phrase "the immediate future of the franchise (is) uncertain"?  Am I missing something?

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 04:52:58 pm »
What exactly does McTaggert mean here with the phrase "the immediate future of the franchise (is) uncertain"?  Am I missing something?

No. McTaggart is. This is a bidness, and McLane will run it like one.
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Noe

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 06:07:24 pm »
What exactly does McTaggert mean here with the phrase "the immediate future of the franchise (is) uncertain"?  Am I missing something?

I took it to mean that there is nothing in the horizon of the farm system that will impact next year (in a positive manner).  There is nothing in the majors right now that seems to be clear candidates to make the immediate future bright either.  And then there is Cecil Cooper.

If the Astros are to turn around a franchise waiting on the High A Ball talent to mature and be positive contributors, then they have no immediate future plans other than to run the course of a season and hope for the best in the interim.  And all the while Oswalt, Lee and Berkman get older.  What infusion, then, does this club need to make the *immediate* future brighter?

Okay, that is a tough question, but perhaps this can be a primer and not so much a comprehensive solution:

1. A return to a solid starting rotation, most especially a inning eater at one of the top spots of the rotation.  Oswalt is showing signs of being vulnerable as an ACE.  He does not take the mound and give anyone a sense of "we're going to win this game" as much as he used to.  In a better rotation, Oswalt is a great pitcher to have.  In a rotation where you rely on him to carry more than a yeoman's share of the load, you're really overextending what type of pitcher Roy is right now in his career.

2. A solid bullpen is very necessary, so you need to stop using these guys in a mixed roles and define what and how to use them appropriately and then stick to it.  One or two more solid contributors and this becomes a good pen again.  Proper usage and it is once again a strength of the ballclub.

3. Defense: you have excellent defense in CF, so-so in left, average in right.  Defense at short is lacking, second base has not been that bad this year, actually performing better than I expected.  Third base has been okay with Blum over there.  First base, when Berkman is healthy is above average.  I think you need better shortstop play, even great shortstop play in Houston in order to support the pitching staff properly.  I'm a bit spoiled by what AE used to provide so shoot me.  When I saw Elvis Andrus play in Houston with the visiting Texas Rangers, I said to self "that is what is missing in Houston and no one talks about it at all".

4. Hitting: You actually have some hitters on the club now that play well at Minute Maid park (and also on the road).  You have the beginning of a top of the lineup order that is very good, lead by Michael Bourn.  The middle of the lineup, with a healthy, non-struggling Lance Berkman is fine, including putting Miguel Tejada at the #5 spot if you need to.  I would like to see a much better option in the number two spot for the team to accent what Bourn already does for the club.  Pence at #6 is where he should be because that seems to be where you'll maximize his sometimes awe inspiring and sometimes "aw shit!" inspiring hitting.  

So what do you need from the immediate future.  IMHO:

1. One or two more solid starters and that may or may not include Bud Norris.
2. A well defined and powerful bullpen.  That includes a maturity for Fulchino, Arias and maybe Paulino if he is moved to the pen.  And then someone that is a bullpen veteran to help these young guys manage a role (and not an arsenal of pitches).
3. Defense... plain and simple.  Just has to be better at shortstop and more defensive replacements in left and right when necessary.  A solid second baseman might help too.
4. Maturity for both Bourn and Pence will go a long way.  Maturity is another way of saying consistency, so take that for what it's worth.

Once you have this in place, you need a manager who understands these attributes of his club overall and understand big picture scenarios as well as in-game strategies to win said game.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 11:28:03 pm by Noe in Austin »

GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 07:16:47 pm »
Agreed in large part, Noe.  A couple of thoughts:

- Until his contract is up, we could do a lot worse defensively at 2B than Matsui.  He's not flashy, but he doesn't really make mistakes or have the range issues that Miggy does. 
- As previously hypothesized, I think Hunter's maturity is directly connected to the person occupying the manager's office.  Watching the Berry-approved early season progress evaporate smells like Cooper all the way; a more mature manager means a more mature Hunter.
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Re: Impatience and the other thing
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2009, 09:55:28 pm »
...Pence at #6 is where he should be because that seems to be where you'll maximize his sometimes awe inpiriing and sometimes "aw shit!" inspiring hitting.  ...
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