Catcher for 2010

[S.P. Rodriguez]

With Pudge's departure, I was interested in watching Coste behind the plate.  I'm a novice, admittedly, but thought he looked good.  He blocked a couple of pitches Oswalt bounced last night and made it look easy.  He was real soft, ball just died in front of him.  Then, this morning, I saw this quote:

"I like his target," Oswalt said. "He sets up with a big target and is real smooth behind the plate. He doesn't go real aggressive to the ball. He lets the ball come to him."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090821&content_id=6543684&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

I'm sure the Astros will take their time to make an assessment but I think a Coste/Quinterro tandem would be serviceable next year, to start.  Coste might be a great mentor for Castro, should he make the jump to the majors next season.  Unfortunately, that would appear to leave Quinterro out of the picture.

[HudsonHawk]

With Pudge's departure, I was interested in watching Coste behind the plate.  I'm a novice, admittedly, but thought he looked good.  He blocked a couple of pitches Oswalt bounced last night and made it look easy.  He was real soft, ball just died in front of him.  Then, this morning, I saw this quote:

"I like his target," Oswalt said. "He sets up with a big target and is real smooth behind the plate. He doesn't go real aggressive to the ball. He lets the ball come to him."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090821&content_id=6543684&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

This is the biggest gripe I have with most catcher, Pudge and Q included.  They're too choppy, stabbing at the ball, jerking their mitt instead of funneling the ball towards the center of their body.  Framing pitches has become almost a completely lost art. 

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Coste is going to be a free agent this offseason, but would come fairly cheap.  If I'm reading correctly, he's not arb. eligible until 2012, and he makes just $460k right now.  If we could sign him for 600k, and he produces (offensively and defensively) like he has this year, then he'd be a bargain.

[Noe]

This is the biggest gripe I have with most catcher, Pudge and Q included.  They're too choppy, stabbing at the ball, jerking their mitt instead of funneling the ball towards the center of their body.  Framing pitches has become almost a completely lost art. 

Ahhhh-greed!  One thing I was good at was receiving the pitch.  It may sound so easy and not a big deal, but when a pitcher needs to have a corner pitch, then it is huge for them to have a catcher who knows how to receive the ball and frame it.  One game, our pitcher lived on the outside part of the plate because he knew I could frame.  I sat outside corner all night, took the blue out there with me and he hit the glove all night long.  Had hitters going back to the dugout muttering things to the umpire.

By the fourth inning or so, he had had enough and yelled at the bench of the opposition.  "Swing the bats and quit blaming me you can't hit an outside pitch!"  So from that point on, we'd show the fastball and bust them inside more just to keep them honest.  Oh and this pitcher had a nice 12 to 6 curveball that we used when we had them leaning over the plate speeding up their bats.  It was a thing of beauty.

[Andyzipp]

You guys have it all wrong.  Framing the pitch is sticking your mit straight out, supported by a rigid arm, head turned slightly, waiting for the ump to give you the call.

Funneling...sheesh.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

This is the biggest gripe I have with most catcher, Pudge and Q included.  They're too choppy, stabbing at the ball, jerking their mitt instead of funneling the ball towards the center of their body.  Framing pitches has become almost a completely lost art. 

In watching Ausmus over the years I feel as if I have seen one of the best at the art of catching, paint his masterpiece. The fluidity and smoothness of his brush-strokes, to paint the ball in a way that it appeared to be moving just to closest point within the strike zone. Op art, indeed. He convinced many a ump what could have been a ball, was a strike.

[HudsonHawk]

In watching Ausmus over the years I feel as if I have seen one of the best at the art of catching, paint his masterpiece. The fluidity and smoothness of his brush-strokes, to paint the ball in a way that it appeared to be moving just to closest point within the strike zone. Op art, indeed. He convinced many a ump what could have been a ball, was a strike.

Indeed.  Those who were quick to want to replace Ausmus know little about baseball and even less about catching.

[strosrays]

Ahhhh-greed!  One thing I was good at was receiving the pitch.  It may sound so easy and not a big deal, but when a pitcher needs to have a corner pitch, then it is huge for them to have a catcher who knows how to receive the ball and frame it.  One game, our pitcher lived on the outside part of the plate because he knew I could frame.  I sat outside corner all night, took the blue out there with me and he hit the glove all night long.  Had hitters going back to the dugout muttering things to the umpire.

By the fourth inning or so, he had had enough and yelled at the bench of the opposition.  "Swing the bats and quit blaming me you can't hit an outside pitch!"  So from that point on, we'd show the fastball and bust them inside more just to keep them honest.  Oh and this pitcher had a nice 12 to 6 curveball that we used when we had them leaning over the plate speeding up their bats.  It was a thing of beauty.

I don't know if you and HH would agree, but to me catching properly was almost like a Zen exercise.  It was sometimes tempting to get flashy back there, or to get excited/panic and speed everything up.  But it always seemed the more I could overcome this urge, the more calm I was back there, and the better I played.

Lay back, let the ball come to you, catch it smoothly within the square frame formed by your shoulders and knees.  That is a strike for most umps, or at least the ones I had.  If the runner goes, get quickly into your stance, cock your arm, and throw (from behind your ear.)  Do it all quickly, but smoothly, no reason to panic or hurry things up.  If the batter pops up, turn around, look up, and find the ball.  Then ease your way over to it, flip your mask behind you, and set up in a spot where you have gauged the ball will come down.  Then just wait for the spin to bring it back to you.  Catch it with two hands, above your head.

I have always felt jumping around back there, snapping the ball behind the runner at first, etc., blocking the ump's view and more importantly, screwing up his perception of where the pitch was in relation to the strike zone, caused more problems than nailing the occaisional careless runner could warrant.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't know if you and HH would agree, but to me catching properly was almost like a Zen exercise. 

I pretty much agree with everything you say here.  I used to have a coach who'd say "be quick, but don't be in a hurry."

[ybbodeus]

As I read through this thread, I couldn't help but think of the strike zones of the 90's, especially the ones granted to the ATL staff. Would it be a fair assumption to say that a portion of the credit for their pitching success at that time could go to Javy Lopez and the battery of personal catchers that Maddux employed?

Obviously, the bulk of the credit goes to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz themselves. However, they would have needed at least some help in developing their reputations. Perhaps early on catching played a role in making it easier for Major League Umpiring to call their strike 3 instead of nearly everybody else's ball 4.

[Mr. Happy]

I agree with Noe and HH. I hated catchers who lunged at the ball. A catcher has to be a diplomat and a psychologist for the umpire.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

As I read through this thread, I couldn't help but think of the strike zones of the 90's, especially the ones granted to the ATL staff. Would it be a fair assumption to say that a portion of the credit for their pitching success at that time could go to Javy Lopez and the battery of personal catchers that Maddux employed?

Obviously, the bulk of the credit goes to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz themselves. However, they would have needed at least some help in developing their reputations. Perhaps early on catching played a role in making it easier for Major League Umpiring to call their strike 3 instead of nearly everybody else's ball 4.

I think you just touched on an aspect more about of how an umpire's split second judgment is influenced by their personal bias based on different pitchers' past performance histories, and less about framing pitches.

[strosrays]

As I read through this thread, I couldn't help but think of the strike zones of the 90's, especially the ones granted to the ATL staff. Would it be a fair assumption to say that a portion of the credit for their pitching success at that time could go to Javy Lopez and the battery of personal catchers that Maddux employed?

Obviously, the bulk of the credit goes to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz themselves. However, they would have needed at least some help in developing their reputations. Perhaps early on catching played a role in making it easier for Major League Umpiring to call their strike 3 instead of nearly everybody else's ball 4.

I think the most a catcher can do most of the time is not fuck up the ump's perception of a good pitch.  There have been a few guys along the way who maybe could consistently catch pitches off the plate and make the ump think they were strikes, but in my opinion that talent is far less common than some fans think.

In other words, it is far more common for a catcher to lose borderline calls for his pitcher by screwing around back there than it is for a catcher to influence an ump into calling a borderline pitch a strike he might not have been inclined to anyway.

Lopez was never thought of as a good defensive catcher, he was far more valued for his offense.  What he did do was not try to impose himself on the action behind the plate too much by jumping around back there, or half-ass backhanding balls in the dirt, or jumping out to fake or actually throw the ball behind runners on base between pitches.  He had three HOF pitchers out there, the best thing he could do was not try to be too flashy or super aggressive and fuck things up.  Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux threw the pitches, hit the locations consistently, etc.  They deserve 90% of the credit.  Give Lopez 10% for having the sense to sit back and let them do their thing, and for allowing the ump to feel comfortable calling most of their borderline pitches strikes.

I think the idea the ATL staff got special preference by umps is overblown.  That was just an incredibly rare convergence of HOF pitchers in one place at one time.  Any pitcher who isn't wild and who locates his pitches consistently on the edge of or just off the plate over time is going to get the benefit of the doubt from any umpire.  Atlanta happened to have three guys like that at the same time.

[Mr. Happy]

I think the most a catcher can do most of the time is not fuck up the ump's perception of a good pitch.  There have been a few guys along the way who maybe could consistently catch pitches off the plate and make the ump think they were strikes, but in my opinion that talent is far less common than some fans think.

In other words, it is far more common for a catcher to lose borderline calls for his pitcher by screwing around back there than it is for a catcher to influence an ump into calling a borderline pitch a strike he might not have been inclined to anyway.

Lopez was never thought of as a good defensive catcher, he was far more valued for his offense.  What he did do was not try to impose himself on the action behind the plate too much by jumping around back there, or half-ass backhanding balls in the dirt, or jumping out to fake or actually throw the ball behind runners on base between pitches.  He had three HOF pitchers out there, the best thing he could do was not try to be too flashy or super aggressive and fuck things up.  Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux threw the pitches, hit the locations consistently, etc.  They deserve 90% of the credit.  Give Lopez 10% for having the sense to sit back and let them do their thing, and for allowing the ump to feel comfortable calling most of their borderline pitches strikes.

I think the idea the ATL staff got special preference by umps is overblown.  That was just an incredibly rare convergence of HOF pitchers in one place at one time.  Any pitcher who isn't wild and who locates his pitches consistently on the edge of or just off the plate over time is going to get the benefit of the doubt from any umpire.  Atlanta happened to have three guys like that at the same time.

I couldn't have said this any better myself, so I won't. Pitchers who can paint get some breaks.

[HudsonHawk]

As I read through this thread, I couldn't help but think of the strike zones of the 90's, especially the ones granted to the ATL staff. Would it be a fair assumption to say that a portion of the credit for their pitching success at that time could go to Javy Lopez and the battery of personal catchers that Maddux employed?

Lopez learned from Greg Olson, who was very good at this.  Pitchers loved Olson.  Lopez...not so much.

[HudsonHawk]

Lopez was never thought of as a good defensive catcher, he was far more valued for his offense.  What he did do was not try to impose himself on the action behind the plate too much by jumping around back there, or half-ass backhanding balls in the dirt, or jumping out to fake or actually throw the ball behind runners on base between pitches.  He had three HOF pitchers out there, the best thing he could do was not try to be too flashy or super aggressive and fuck things up.  Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux threw the pitches, hit the locations consistently, etc.  They deserve 90% of the credit.  Give Lopez 10% for having the sense to sit back and let them do their thing, and for allowing the ump to feel comfortable calling most of their borderline pitches strikes.

Lopez was catching the best staff in the last half-century.  His job was simply to not step on his dick.

[OregonStrosFan]

From JdJO's Astros Notes:

Chris Coste has drawn early raves as a catcher from Roy Oswalt, Brian Moehler and Cecil Cooper.

“He receives the ball well,” Cooper said. “He doesn't throw like Pudge (Ivan Rodriguez) or Q (Humberto Quintero), but he's quiet behind there and receives well. He can throw, just not in the same category as those guys. Those guys have more big arms, but that's his strength: receiving. He follows the game plan. He really knows what to do.”

[Navin R Johnson]

Coste was a nice pickup by Wade.

[strosrays]

From JdJO's Astros Notes:

Chris Coste has drawn early raves as a catcher from Roy Oswalt, Brian Moehler and Cecil Cooper.

“He receives the ball well,” Cooper said. “He doesn't throw like Pudge (Ivan Rodriguez) or Q (Humberto Quintero), but he's quiet behind there and receives well. He can throw, just not in the same category as those guys. Those guys have more big arms, but that's his strength: receiving. He follows the game plan. He really knows what to do.”

Cooper spends half his laudatory quote explaining Coste's positives in a negative way (he's no I-Rod or Q, but he does do this), and the other half explaining Coste's negatives intricately and in detail.

If I'm Coste, I'm thinking, "Gee, thanks, skipper."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Cooper spends half his laudatory quote explaining Coste's positives in a negative way (he's no I-Rod or Q, but he does do this), and the other half explaining Coste's negatives intricately and in detail.

If I'm Coste, I'm thinking, "Gee, thanks, skipper."

Interesting.  At this point, I assumed the entire roster responded to all of Cooper's comments simply with "Asshole".  I know I do. 

[Limey]

Indeed.  Those who were quick to want to replace Ausmus know little about baseball and even less about catching.

Drayton and Pam?

[HudsonHawk]

Drayton and Pam?

Actually, whether they wanted him to or not, Ausmus stuck around, either because a) they actually knew his value, or b) they actually listened to their baseball people on this one.  In fact, I give Uncle D credit for not buying into the rotogeek caterwauling about how terrible Ausumus was for the team.

[Mr. Happy]

Cooper spends half his laudatory quote explaining Coste's positives in a negative way (he's no I-Rod or Q, but he does do this), and the other half explaining Coste's negatives intricately and in detail.

If I'm Coste, I'm thinking, "Gee, thanks, skipper."

Cooper is obviously one of those people who simply can't give an unqualified compliment.

[Limey]

Cooper is obviously one of those people who simply can't give an unqualified compliment.

Cooper is not even a "glass half empty" guy.  He's a "what glass?"guy.

[Gizzmonic]

In the year 2010, all catching duties will be performed by superintelligent robots.  Pitch calls are relayed to the pitcher through a secure Bluetooth channel.  Legacy support for dropping fingers has been deprecated.

[Noe]

In the year 2010, all catching duties will be performed by superintelligent robots.  Pitch calls are relayed to the pitcher through a secure Bluetooth channel.  Legacy support for dropping fingers has been deprecated.

And Cooper (iffin' he's still the skipper) would say this about the robot "He's too mechanical behind the plate, which can be good, at least he doesn't drop any pitches.  You just wish he could be more fluid, which would also defeat the fact that he's a robot, so I guess you have to live with the bad with the good".

[moriartp]

Robot catcher, you say? Might be more likely than you think.

[Lefty]

Interesting.  At this point, I assumed the entire roster responded to all of Cooper's comments simply with "Asshole".  I know I do.  

"Really?"

[S.P. Rodriguez]

"Really?"

How about a compromise?  "Really?  Asshole"

[rifraft]

Robot catcher, you say? Might be more likely than you think.

The robot has terrible throwing mechanics, just wait, it's going to have shoulder problems in the long run.

[Noe]

The robot has terrible throwing mechanics, just wait, it's going to have shoulder problems in the long run.

A robot that doesn't trust his stuff?  Nice!

[utastro]

Robot catcher, you say? Might be more likely than you think.

What happens if the person pretends to throw the ball while the robot is following it?  Does the robot get pissed and terminate the person.

[Limey]

A robot that doesn't trust his stuff?  Nice!

We can call him "HAL".

[MusicMan]

We can call him "HAL".

If I ever hear the catcher singing "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do..." I'm getting the hell out of there.

[Ty in Tampa]

"I want to give him the heat and announce my presence with authority!"

"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid you can't do that."

[VirtualBob]

"I want to give him the heat and announce my presence with authority!"

"I'm sorry, Dave Roy. I'm afraid you can't do that."

fixed/updated.

[Noe]

Umpire: "Let's speed this game up, shall we Mr. Robo"
Robot: "I'm sorry sir, but my program allows me to ascertain needs of slowing my pitcher down and relaxing him through a technique known as stalling..."
Umpire: "The hell you say, well, what about we just forgo that program of yours and hurry the heck up!  What do you say to that?!?!"
Robot: zzzzap! "Must remember to disable laser termination mode from program in the future.  That is all.  Sorry Mr. Umpire."

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Robot: Danger! Danger, Dewey Robinson! Warning!

[Gizzmonic]

I think if we pair the robot catcher with a small-town pitcher from Georgia, we have the making for a successful sitcom!

Coming to ABC this fall, it's "My Robot, My Catcher"!  Featuring great scenes like this:

Robo-Catcher: Brrrrr...he is CHEEting to GET to the fastBALL. I PREdict a 79 perCENT chance of suckSESS with pitch "CHANGE-UP" beedle boop.

Pitcher: We'll I'll be damned if you ain't the orneriest robot catcher I ever did pitch to!

Robo-Catcher: Brr...oil can...oil can...bzzt

Pitcher: Robo-Catcher, you done dropped a diode or somethin'?  That dude ain't been pitchin' for years!

Robo-Catcher: Tell me...deop boop...what is this...love?

(Robo-Catcher and pitcher hold hands and walk off the diamond into the sunset)

[das]

Robo-Catcher: Brrrrr...he is CHEEting to GET to the fastBALL. I PREdict a 79 perCENT chance of suckSESS with pitch "CHANGE-UP" beedle boop.

Any sentence that ends in "beedle boop" is alright in my book.