Author Topic: Getting Nostaglic About Milo  (Read 11490 times)

HudsonHawk

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Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« on: June 07, 2009, 10:11:50 pm »
So I decided to drive up to Lubbock today, run some errands, see the sights, but mainly just to get out of the apartment for a while.  I enjoy driving through the desert, having a smoke...it's relaxing.  At any rate, it gave me a chance to catch today's game on the radio.  Thank God for XM.  While listening to Milo, I got thinking back on his career, and what it's been like to listen to him for nearly 40 years.  Frankly, I got a little sad.  Not because he's so bad now, but because he's really at the end of the line, and it's sort of the end of an era, for me at least.  I've been as critical of Milo the last 10 years as anyone, but it's like a friend once told me...that old dog might bite you every day, but you're still gonna miss him when he's gone.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 10:27:17 pm »
I feel you. When Milo became the voice of the Astros, I was very pissed off because the Astros jettisoned Gene Elston and Loelle Passe. It was a very long time before I could accept Milo as anything but the Braves' former play-by-play man. However, I eventually accepted Milo, but I was quick to criticize and lampoon him for what he'd become--an over-the-hill cartoon character. But at least Milo has a style, unlike DoRay, who are just downright antiseptic awful without any style. I may not miss Milo much when he is gone, but I will miss style.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 10:47:22 pm »
Amen. They're busy beating style into chipper hip homogeneity. If you're indistinguishable from the rest of the herd (or your partner in the booth) we don't need to hear your song.

"In every dingy basement
On every dingy street
Every dragging handclap
Over every dragging beat

It's just the beat of time
The beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years
We've already heard your song."

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 12:07:00 am »
Amen. They're busy beating style into chipper hip homogeneity. If you're indistinguishable from the rest of the herd (or your partner in the booth) we don't need to hear your song.

"In every dingy basement
On every dingy street
Every dragging handclap
Over every dragging beat

It's just the beat of time
The beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years
We've already heard your song."



I was thinking about Strummer today when I wandered across a workers' party rally at an amphiteatre in a nice, urban park. Lots of flag waving, folk song singing, total Strummerville. I really miss that guy.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 06:24:12 am »
Growing up in LA (that's Lower Alabama), Mile will always mean the Braves to me.  Especially his call of 715
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 08:08:47 am »
When Milo became the voice of the Astros, I was very pissed off because the Astros jettisoned Gene Elston and Loelle Passe. It was a very long time before I could accept Milo as anything but the Braves' former play-by-play man. However, I eventually accepted Milo,........
I never have accepted the guy. He isn't good. I don't enjoy listening to him. And Do-Ray are equally bad.  Almost painful to listen to any of them.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:21 am »
I can't listen to Milo.  I've never been able to listen to him.  I want to know what is going on during the game -- especially when I am listening on the radio.  And Milo sucks at describing what is happening.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 08:54:49 am »
So I decided to drive up to Lubbock today, run some errands, see the sights, but mainly just to get out of the apartment for a while.  I enjoy driving through the desert, having a smoke...it's relaxing.  At any rate, it gave me a chance to catch today's game on the radio.  Thank God for XM.  While listening to Milo, I got thinking back on his career, and what it's been like to listen to him for nearly 40 years.  Frankly, I got a little sad.  Not because he's so bad now, but because he's really at the end of the line, and it's sort of the end of an era, for me at least.  I've been as critical of Milo the last 10 years as anyone, but it's like a friend once told me...that old dog might bite you every day, but you're still gonna miss him when he's gone.

I started listening to Milo in '80 when my family moved to Chicagoland.  He was not good then, better than now but certainly had begun his descent, and I think being in the Cubs org and esp "working" with Harry Caray hastened his descent.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 08:59:02 am »
Milo himself didn't bother me when he came to the Astros.  He was competent enough.  The drama around Milo AFTER the 1986 season soured me on him, but he was still competent well into the late 90's. 

He is not so much now.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 09:05:04 am »
The drama around Milo AFTER the 1986 season.

So what was the drama?
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Andyzipp

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 09:12:52 am »
So what was the drama?

Elston was fired for the rumored reason that he wasn't descriptive enough during Scott's no-hitter.  Milo was awarded the full time gig.  The ire surrounding Elston's dismissal was aimed at Milo by many. 

Also, I'm certain he campaigned for the full time gig so he wasn't exactly blameless.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 09:48:45 am »
I'm too young to remember anyone else calling the Astros, so I am more or less programmed with the idea that Milo is the voice of the Astros.  In the same way, my dad is an Elston/Passe guy and can't stand Milo.  Neither of us really like Raymond or Dolan.  I still can't tell their voices apart.  Maybe they can get better, but they are a little too gameshow-host smarmy to me.  

« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 09:58:27 am by Gizzmonic »
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 09:53:01 am »
I'm convinced that DoRay are the KBBL radio guys from the Simpsons. I don't have the energy or inclination to find a supporting clip on the youtubes.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 09:56:00 am »
I can't listen to Milo.  I've never been able to listen to him.  I want to know what is going on during the game -- especially when I am listening on the radio.  And Milo sucks at describing what is happening.

This is the sad part.  Milo used to be as good as they come at describing the action.  He still shows flashes of it from time to time, but he's a characiture now. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 09:56:13 pm »
Elston was fired for the rumored reason that he wasn't descriptive enough during Scott's no-hitter.  Milo was awarded the full time gig.  The ire surrounding Elston's dismissal was aimed at Milo by many. 

Also, I'm certain he campaigned for the full time gig so he wasn't exactly blameless.

I'm sure Milo did campaign. He's nothing if not a self-promoter but I think McLane liked his salesmanship on the air of all things on the business side of baseball which is probably Elston's downfall. Elston was old-school and probably a little stubborn about hustling ticket sales and telling listeners what groups where in the house and whose B-day it was.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 10:21:01 pm »
I'm sure Milo did campaign. He's nothing if not a self-promoter but I think McLane liked his salesmanship on the air of all things on the business side of baseball which is probably Elston's downfall. Elston was old-school and probably a little stubborn about hustling ticket sales and telling listeners what groups where in the house and whose B-day it was.

McLane didn't own the Astros in 1986.  Dr. John McMullen did.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 10:51:43 pm »
McLane didn't own the Astros in 1986.  Dr. John McMullen did.


Good point!

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 11:17:57 pm »
If someone was going to replace Elston, I am thankful it was Milo, and not Bob Prince.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 08:33:29 am »
FWIW, I attended a talk by Curt Smith who wrote the book on who he thinks are the best broadcasters in the game.  He told me afterward that Hamilton campaigned to take the job away from Elston.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 08:42:14 am »
FWIW, I attended a talk by Curt Smith who wrote the book on who he thinks are the best broadcasters in the game.  He told me afterward that Hamilton campaigned to take the job away from Elston.

I would have too.  Anyone who isn't actively seeking the next level isn't trying hard enough. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 01:07:26 pm »
I would have too.  Anyone who isn't actively seeking the next level isn't trying hard enough. 


You think it's good policy to campaign for a job while someone is in the job? I'm middle-age, am I that far out of touch?
I don't begrudge anyone from being ambitious but going after the position of an associate strikes me as abhorant unless that particular person is hurting the organization which was NOT the case with Elston.


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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 01:14:57 pm »

You think it's good policy to campaign for a job while someone is in the job? I'm middle-age, am I that far out of touch?
I don't begrudge anyone from being ambitious but going after the position of an associate strikes me as abhorant unless that particular person is hurting the organization which was NOT the case with Elston.



It happens everywhere.  Surely, you aren't surprised.  A lot of people are willing to step on someone else to get ahead.
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juliogotay

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 01:29:55 pm »
It happens everywhere.  Surely, you aren't surprised.  A lot of people are willing to step on someone else to get ahead.


Oh,I understand it happens. Is this considered OK? A good employee? A desirable attribute? Those employees are often called "back-stabbers" and are not worthy of trust from managers or associates. Aren't they?

HudsonHawk

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 01:32:06 pm »

You think it's good policy to campaign for a job while someone is in the job? I'm middle-age, am I that far out of touch?
I don't begrudge anyone from being ambitious but going after the position of an associate strikes me as abhorant unless that particular person is hurting the organization which was NOT the case with Elston.


When there are only 26 positions of your profession in the world, and they're all occupied, yes, it's good policy to actively seek one.  They're not gonna fall in your lap.  I don't know the details, and I know that Milo will always be Satan incarnate in the eyes of some Elston fans, but that's the way the world works.  If you get a job, that means that someone else doesn't have that same job. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

HudsonHawk

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 01:32:33 pm »

Oh,I understand it happens. Is this considered OK? A good employee? A desirable attribute? Those employees are often called "back-stabbers" and are not worthy of trust from managers or associates. Aren't they?

So actively seeking a job = backstabbing now?  How did you ever get yours?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Andyzipp

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 01:41:30 pm »
So actively seeking a job = backstabbing now?  How did you ever get yours?

The issue is that Elston hadn't been fired yet.  He was likely close to retirement anyway, and that the "belief" is that Milo campaigned all during the season to oust Elston. There wasn't an opening that he was applying for.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 01:46:57 pm »
The issue is that Elston hadn't been fired yet.  He was likely close to retirement anyway, and that the "belief" is that Milo campaigned all during the season to oust Elston. There wasn't an opening that he was applying for.

Like I said, I don't know the details, but actively campaigning for a job doesn't make one evil.  If he was sabotaging Elston, that's one thing.  It's another entirely to simply tell the boss "I'd like to have the top job", even if the top job is currently filled.  I mean, we don't expect a player to say "well, the Astros already have a second baseman, so I'll be happy as a backup utility guy."
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 01:52:16 pm »
Like I said, I don't know the details, but actively campaigning for a job doesn't make one evil.  If he was sabotaging Elston, that's one thing.  It's another entirely to simply tell the boss "I'd like to have the top job", even if the top job is currently filled.  I mean, we don't expect a player to say "well, the Astros already have a second baseman, so I'll be happy as a backup utility guy."

No inside knowledge, but Scott's no-hitter had Elston saying "There it is" and letting the crowd noise tell the story.  Milo basically took an air-check to McMullen and told him how horrible the call was.  He supposedly had been doing the same thing all season.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 01:57:47 pm »
Like I said, I don't know the details, but actively campaigning for a job doesn't make one evil.  If he was sabotaging Elston, that's one thing.  It's another entirely to simply tell the boss "I'd like to have the top job", even if the top job is currently filled.  I mean, we don't expect a player to say "well, the Astros already have a second baseman, so I'll be happy as a backup utility guy."
No, but I hope Edwin Maysonet isn't going up to Coop or Wade saying "let me show you video of how bad Matsui is at turning the DP" or "boy, Matsui sure does suck at getting on base, eh?". I would hope that his self-lobbying would be more along the lines of "I know I'm a good player, I've learned a lot, etc., and I hope that someday I get a chance to be a starter, whether it's here or elsewhere."
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 02:03:50 pm »
No, but I hope Edwin Maysonet isn't going up to Coop or Wade saying "let me show you video of how bad Matsui is at turning the DP" or "boy, Matsui sure does suck at getting on base, eh?". I would hope that his self-lobbying would be more along the lines of "I know I'm a good player, I've learned a lot, etc., and I hope that someday I get a chance to be a starter, whether it's here or elsewhere."

What evidence do you have that Milo did that?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 02:23:29 pm »
What evidence do you have that Milo did that?
None; I'm going on what Zipp has said. Also, I would argue that "actively campaigning" for a job that someone you work with currently occupies essentially involves bad-mouthing them. Unless it was known that the guy was on his way out anyway. To extend the 2B analogy, if Matsui's deal was due to end after 2009, I would be fine with Maysonet saying "I hope the Astros give me a chance to take over as the starting 2B."
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 02:28:29 pm »
None; I'm going on what Zipp has said. Also, I would argue that "actively campaigning" for a job that someone you work with currently occupies essentially involves bad-mouthing them.

I don't agree.

Quote
To extend the 2B analogy, if Matsui's deal was due to end after 2009, I would be fine with Maysonet saying "I hope the Astros give me a chance to take over as the starting 2B."

I would hope Maysonet, or anyone else for that matter, went into Spring Training thinking he could take Matsui's job away from him, not waiting until the incumbent's contract is up to make his case.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 02:33:31 pm »
I don't agree.

I would hope Maysonet, or anyone else for that matter, went into Spring Training thinking he could take Matsui's job away from him, not waiting until the incumbent's contract is up to make his case.
You make your case by playing well, no? That said, I really don't know anything other than what's been posted here about the Milo/Elston thing, and having lived most of my life away from Houston I have heard very few games on the radio anyway. So based on the speck of evidence I have, it sounds like backstabbing, but I really don't know.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2009, 02:34:30 pm »
Put me on the side of those who will be nostalgic about Milo.   I associate his voice with the excitement of walking from the Astrodome parking lot up to the ticket gates when I was a kid. The overhead speakers played the pregame on the way in and highlights on the way out.  Nothing can match that feeling.

more nostalgia:  In the car on the way to my very first Astros game, when my Dad told my brother and I where we were headed, we looked at each other and sang at the top of our lungs,  "WHO SAYS IT'S ONLY A GAME!!!!!!"  

 Anyway, I'm not a regular radio listener since I'm out of area, but when I do hear Milo's voice, it still makes me happy.


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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2009, 03:03:04 pm »

but when I do hear Milo's voice, it still makes me happy.



It makes me wonder if I will have to get home before I find out what inning the game is in and what the hell the score is.


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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2009, 03:06:10 pm »
Like I said, I don't know the details, but actively campaigning for a job doesn't make one evil.  If he was sabotaging Elston, that's one thing.  It's another entirely to simply tell the boss "I'd like to have the top job", even if the top job is currently filled.  I mean, we don't expect a player to say "well, the Astros already have a second baseman, so I'll be happy as a backup utility guy."

Milo and Elston worked together two years in Houston before Elston's dismissal. (They had also worked together awhile in Chicago many years previously.) In his book, Milo says he asked Elston before their first broadcast together what role he (Elston) would like him (Milo) to play. Elston told him that when he was doing PBP, Milo's mic would not be on. Milo would work the middle innings. Milo described  this as less than a warm welcome without bothering to acknowledge that this was how Elston had always worked with Passe, Staats, Prince, Kalas, Trupiano or anyone else on the team. This arrangement did not last past ST however has when the season started Elston would be in the radio booth with a color man and Milo in the TV booth with a color man and they would switch booths daily. This went on for two years until Elston was canned for whatever reason. The only other comment Milo made about Elston in his book was that the Ford Frick award was well-deserved.

I don't know if Milo sabotaged Elston or not. I do believe what I heard/read and posted above about Elston hurting himself by not being more of a huckster-type pushing ticket sales and such. That was an ever-increasing part of the job and he didn't do it well. I also have heard the story that Andy related about Scott's no-hitter. Personally, I appreciated Elston's call of the final out and division clinching win. So I don't know what role Milo had in Elston leaving and certainly don't hold it against him unless I knew he helped orchestrate it. I do know, however, that Milo has a history of poor relationships with announcing associates from different places he has worked.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2009, 03:21:46 pm »
No inside knowledge, but Scott's no-hitter had Elston saying "There it is" and letting the crowd noise tell the story.  Milo basically took an air-check to McMullen and told him how horrible the call was.  He supposedly had been doing the same thing all season.

Milo probably had a prolix, pleonastic, magnani-ificient call for the occasion he'd been working on for months, on the off chance Scott tossed a no-hitter in late September to clinch the division.  I read that he worked on his '715' call for quite awhile, refining it meticulously, before the event ever actually took place.  Nothing wrong with that - good job preparation, if nothing else.  Of course, Milo delivered his lines it as if they were spontaneous, and I am pretty sure most of his listeners, I assume he knew, took them as if they were.

I remember Elston's call, or lack thereof, at the end of Scott's no-no.  He had done basically the same thing at the finish of the one-game playoff for the NL West in LA at the end of the 1980 season. Two outs, bottom of the ninth, and the Astros were in control.  As Dave Bergman eased over from 1st base to snag the pop-up that would end that season’s 163rd game, Gene Elston said, "That's it!"  And then he was silent.  There weren't many screaming Astros fans to listen to among the throng of front-runners in Chavez Ravine that day, but I guessed at the time Elston knew there were plenty of screaming Astros fans in bars and living rooms all across Houston and the surrounding areas.  Instead of trying to leave his imprint on history, he just sat back and let us have our moment.

In his day, Gene Elston wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, by the way.  There were people who preferred Loel Passe’s hokey, down-home, Southern country-boy style, and thought Passe should have been the lead (Passe was, in real life, very smart; he also liked his bourbon, and was reportedly quite the ladies man.)  Harry Kalas had to go to Philadelphia to be top dog, and there were people at the time who thought the wrong guy left.

Also, I'd like to dissuade a seemingly commonly held notion nowadays about Gene Elston’s announcing style.  He was NOT a stoic, non-emotive broadcaster most of the time.  Go back and listen to some of his air checks.  He was regularly quite animated, did on air commercials, had dumb interviews with broadcast booth interlopers, participated in mindless banter with the other announcers to kill air time, etc.  At the end of Dierker's no-hitter in 1976, Elston was quite animated on the air.  That no-hitter clinched nothing, and perhaps he realized Dierker’s singular effort itself was the whole story that day, and decided to celebrate it.  Whereas with the Scott no-no, there was also the clinching of the NL West.  What was Elston going to say then that most of us didn't already know?  The litany of Astros failures over the years was carved as deeply into our hearts and minds as anything else we’d ever known.  Elston realized that last ground-out would release a great deal of pent-up emotion, and so he just let it happen.  I remember thinking at the time his restraint was quite appropriate.  The screaming of the 30,000 or so fans in the Dome and of many times 30,000 fans wherever the rest of us were watching that game was as eloquent as anything he or certainly Milo could have come up with to mark the moment.  Thank goodness Milo did not have the mike in his hands at the time.

Both Milo and Elston have/had their strong points, and their weaknesses.  Personally, there are things I like and dislike about both of them, as announcers.  The main difference between them, in my mind, is Elston had an idea about when to just shut the fuck up, the notion that, at times, what was going on the field or had just gone on needed no embellishment from him, and in fact would have been diminished by it.

As far as I can tell, Milo has never been troubled by such thoughts.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2009, 03:27:15 pm »
Elston had an idea about when to just shut the fuck up, the notion that, at times, what was going on the field or had just gone on needed no embellishment from him, and in fact would have been diminished by it.

On radio?
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2009, 03:41:01 pm »
On radio?

Exactly.  There is a fine line on knowing when to shut the fuck up and shutting TOO the fuck up.  The job of a radio announcer is to describe the action for people who cannot see what is going on, not to "soak in the moment".  Not that that's what Elston did on Scott's no-hitter, just the idea that on-air silence being good is a strange idea to me. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2009, 03:44:58 pm »
I do know, however, that Milo has a history of poor relationships with announcing associates from different places he has worked.


Don't know if that poor relationship extended everywhere, but it's no secret that he and Harry Caray never got along.  They didn't like each other when they both worked in St. Louis or Chicago, and certainly didn't get along when they worked together for the Cubs.  Milo thought Caray's on-air drunkeness was a disgrace to the profession, and from stories I've heard of Caray, I can't say I blame Milo.  That distate extended from Harry to his son in Atlanta and I suppose on to Harry's grandson.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2009, 03:46:10 pm »
Exactly.  There is a fine line on knowing when to shut the fuck up and shutting TOO the fuck up.  The job of a radio announcer is to describe the action for people who cannot see what is going on, not to "soak in the moment".  Not that that's what Elston did on Scott's no-hitter, just the idea that on-air silence being good is a strange idea to me. 

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2009, 03:49:01 pm »
"The notes you leave out are as important as the ones you put in."  - Keith Richards, Andy Summers, others

Right.  But if you leave them all out, or leave out the wrong ones, it sounds like ass.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2009, 03:54:59 pm »

Don't know if that poor relationship extended everywhere, but it's no secret that he and Harry Caray never got along.  They didn't like each other when they both worked in St. Louis or Chicago, and certainly didn't get along when they worked together for the Cubs.  Milo thought Caray's on-air drunkeness was a disgrace to the profession, and from stories I've heard of Caray, I can't say I blame Milo.  That distate extended from Harry to his son in Atlanta and I suppose on to Harry's grandson.

Yes, Skip (with Pete van Wieren) was hired by the Braves after Hamilton got shit-canned in Atlanta, so I am guessing his animus toward Milo was mostly passed down from dear old Dad.  I don't know what Ernie Johnson thought of him.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2009, 03:56:23 pm »
"But if you leave them all out, or leave out the wrong ones, it sounds like ass."
- Limahl

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2009, 03:58:25 pm »

Don't know if that poor relationship extended everywhere, but it's no secret that he and Harry Caray never got along.  They didn't like each other when they both worked in St. Louis or Chicago, and certainly didn't get along when they worked together for the Cubs.  Milo thought Caray's on-air drunkeness was a disgrace to the profession, and from stories I've heard of Caray, I can't say I blame Milo.  That distate extended from Harry to his son in Atlanta and I suppose on to Harry's grandson.

The Cubs putting Caray as the main guy when Jack Brickhouse retired nearly drove Milo insane.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2009, 04:09:42 pm »

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2009, 04:11:10 pm »
Right.  But if you leave them all out, or leave out the wrong ones, it sounds like ass.

Curt Smith, author of the books "Voices of Summer" and "Voices of the Game", said Elston was baseball's equivalent of Jack Webb's Joe Friday from "Dragnet" - just the facts.

"Baseball is a daily sport, not a sport of glitz and hype and shock, and Gene was a solid, workaday play-by-play man who was an extremely wearable companion," Smith said. "As an announcer, you come at listeners 162 times a year, and Gene never wore out his welcome."


I don't know where the idea that Elston was silent during broadcasts came from.  It wasn't so.  He was able to convey a very good picture of what was going on.  More than half my time listening to Elston was radio only, and he was quite good.  He had his weaknesses, but getting across what was going on in the game was not one of them.

"Gene had such a friendly, smooth and comfortable style that listening to the game was like listening to nice music. It was just pleasant," Dierker said. "Gene's style is what impressed me the most."

Both instances I cited, the Scott no-hitter and the 1980 playoff, were TV games, not radio.  Elston knew the difference.

"He could be so descriptive on the radio, and I think he was the best I ever heard at making the transition from radio to television," Worrell said. "He made words go a long way on TV."

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2009, 04:15:33 pm »
The Cubs putting Caray as the main guy when Jack Brickhouse retired nearly drove Milo insane.

I'm sure it did.  But Milo despised Caray before that.  Milo blamed Caray for pushing him out the door in St. Louis then again for him not getting Jack Brickhouse's job with the Cubs (ironically what he's accused of doing to Elston).  Which reminds me...I'm always puzzled by the fans who think of Caray as "Mr. Cub".  He wasn't with them really all that long, only like 15 years, which is a good while, but not particularly long in that line of work.  He worked much longer in St. Louis and nearly as long with the White Sox.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2009, 04:17:20 pm »
Curt Smith, author of the books "Voices of Summer" and "Voices of the Game", said Elston was baseball's equivalent of Jack Webb's Joe Friday from "Dragnet" - just the facts.

"Baseball is a daily sport, not a sport of glitz and hype and shock, and Gene was a solid, workaday play-by-play man who was an extremely wearable companion," Smith said. "As an announcer, you come at listeners 162 times a year, and Gene never wore out his welcome."


I don't know where the idea that Elston was silent during broadcasts came from.  It wasn't so.  He was able to convey a very good picture of what was going on.  More than half my time listening to Elston was radio only, and he was quite good.  He had his weaknesses, but getting across what was going on in the game was not one of them.

"Gene had such a friendly, smooth and comfortable style that listening to the game was like listening to nice music. It was just pleasant," Dierker said. "Gene's style is what impressed me the most."

Both instances I cited, the Scott no-hitter and the 1980 playoff, were TV games, not radio.  Elston knew the difference.

"He could be so descriptive on the radio, and I think he was the best I ever heard at making the transition from radio to television," Worrell said. "He made words go a long way on TV."

The Link


Agreed.  I'm not speaking specifically of Elston, just a general comment at those who profess to prefer a minimalist approach on the radio.  I don't get it.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2009, 04:22:17 pm »
I'm sure it did.  But Milo despised Caray before that.  Milo blamed Caray for pushing him out the door in St. Louis then again for him not getting Jack Brickhouse's job with the Cubs (ironically what he's accused of doing to Elston).  Which reminds me...I'm always puzzled by the fans who think of Caray as "Mr. Cub".  He wasn't with them really all that long, only like 15 years, which is a good while, but not particularly long in that line of work.  He worked much longer in St. Louis and nearly as long with the White Sox.

His Cub years more or less coincided with the expansion of TV coverage and WGN becoming a "superstation."

The whole Milo vs. Elston thing has been overdramatized by fans and the press.  Elston always blamed Dick Wagner for his firing.  He said Wagner didn't want people around who were "somebody."  I guess in a backhand way that tells you what he thought of Milo.

It doesn't help Elston, especially around here, that his HOF cause was taken up by the dweebs at AD, who of course became breathless sycophants.  I hope that isn't coloring anyone's estimation of Elston as an announcer.  It also strikes me that a lot of the people who both admire him and don't aren't old enough to have heard him announce games for most if not all of his career in Houston.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2009, 04:24:28 pm »
I'm sure it did.  But Milo despised Caray before that.  Milo blamed Caray for pushing him out the door in St. Louis then again for him not getting Jack Brickhouse's job with the Cubs (ironically what he's accused of doing to Elston).  Which reminds me...I'm always puzzled by the fans who think of Caray as "Mr. Cub".  He wasn't with them really all that long, only like 15 years, which is a good while, but not particularly long in that line of work.  He worked much longer in St. Louis and nearly as long with the White Sox.

I was there for Caray moving from CWS to FTC.  It was not pretty.  White Sox fans weren't real happy with Caray as his boozy way fit in well with the Southsiders.  Cubs owners saw how popular Caray was and paid him to move north.  It worked for them as there is no way Milo would have been as popular.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2009, 04:31:05 pm »
His Cub years more or less coincided with the expansion of TV coverage and WGN becoming a "superstation."

The whole Milo vs. Elston thing has been overdramatized by fans and the press.  Elston always blamed Dick Wagner for his firing.  He said Wagner didn't want people around who were "somebody."  I guess in a backhand way that tells you what he thought of Milo.

It doesn't help Elston, especially around here, that his HOF cause was taken up by the dweebs at AD, who of course became breathless sycophants.  I hope that isn't coloring anyone's estimation of Elston as an announcer.  It also strikes me that a lot of the people who both admire him and don't aren't old enough to have heard him announce games for most if not all of his career in Houston.

Elston was, by far, the best Houston has had, imo. i heard him his entire career in Houston and before that on the Game of the Day, i think.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2009, 05:25:11 pm »
Elston was, by far, the best Houston has had, imo. i heard him his entire career in Houston and before that on the Game of the Day, i think.
I completely agree. My all time favorite. Stunning that he would be canned in favor of a buffoon like Milo for any reason.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2009, 06:02:45 pm »
Elston was, by far, the best Houston has had, imo. i heard him his entire career in Houston and before that on the Game of the Day, i think.
I loved Elston. He is the consummate professional who respected the game and didn't make himself the story. It was always the game.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2009, 06:11:36 pm »
I loved Elston. He is the consummate professional who respected the game and didn't make himself the story. It was always the game.


Exactly. Milo is part of the game. That's not necessarily bad. Some like chocolate, some vanilla. My preference is Elston but I think alot of that is because I grew up listening to him. I probably have an overrated opinion of him because he was my reference point. There are alot of different styles and Scully is the best ever. I would listen to him reading the yellow pages.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2009, 01:38:47 pm »
Didn't Milo chastise Harry Caray for among other things making himself part of the game, in fact for "the misreable human being's" making himself bigger than the game and just about everything else to boot?  Irony in small portions.  Given that Harry helped get Milo run out of Chicago (and St. Louis), and that Milo had been bumped to make room for a replacement more than once, perhaps Milo simply thought that was how job interviews were conducted. 

I grew up in what was essentially Jakes territory, though there was some modest Bravo and Redleg influence, too.  Many a night as a young boy I went to sleep with an earplug attached to my tiny transistor radio, listening to Jack Buck and Mike Shannon tell me about the game they were watching.  I recall waking up once at 2:30 in the morning, thinking for a moment that I must have just dozed off, only to learn (compliments of Mike Shannon's bitching) that they were in the 22nd or somesuch inning in godawful Shea and they had a day game to do the next day and how would they ever be able to make it to the broadcast on so little sleep (like that had ever stopped him) and so on. 

Continuing on the theme of making one's self a part of the broadcast, I can also vividly recall more than one day game broadcast opening with the sound of someone taking a strong sip of something and then Mike's saying, "Boy, THAT hit the spot!" after which he went on to celebrate Budweiser's exclusive beechwood aging which produced a taste, a smoothness and a drinkability that you would find in no other beer at any price, unless, of course, you were in the mood for an iced cold Bussssssch, or, if you had the time, we had the beer, which was a cool refreshing Michelob. 

There was little doubt what that organization's primary business was in those days.

 
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2009, 10:33:47 pm »
Continuing on the theme of making one's self a part of the broadcast, I can also vividly recall more than one day game broadcast opening with the sound of someone taking a strong sip of something and then Mike's saying, "Boy, THAT hit the spot!" after which he went on to celebrate Budweiser's exclusive beechwood aging which produced a taste, a smoothness and a drinkability that you would find in no other beer at any price, unless, of course, you were in the mood for an iced cold Bussssssch, or, if you had the time, we had the beer, which was a cool refreshing Michelob. 

There was little doubt what that organization's primary business was in those days.

 
A lot of those old 50's and 60's broadcasters suffered from consuming too much of the sponsor's product on air.  Dizzy Dean usually couldn't make it through the 6th before the oft repeated "an' now a'll turn it over t' mah good fren' Pee Wee ..."
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2009, 01:01:17 am »
I believe I might have gone through something similar as a spectator recently.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2009, 01:04:34 pm »
A lot of those old 50's and 60's broadcasters suffered from consuming too much of the sponsor's product on air.  Dizzy Dean usually couldn't make it through the 6th before the oft repeated "an' now a'll turn it over t' mah good fren' Pee Wee ..."

That was just the way he talked. I met Ole Diz as a 12 year old, not long before he passed.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2009, 01:07:39 pm »
That was just the way he talked. I met Ole Diz as a 12 year old, not long before he passed.

Had a singed Dizzy Dean baseball with the logo of his burger(?) joint on it.  Was about 7 or 8 playing ball outside.  Lost a couple of balls early and we all wanted to keep playing.  Only ball I could find was the good old signed Dizzy Dean baseball.  What a friggin' idiot I was...
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2009, 01:12:54 pm »
Had a singed Dizzy Dean baseball with the logo of his burger(?) joint on it.  Was about 7 or 8 playing ball outside.  Lost a couple of balls early and we all wanted to keep playing.  Only ball I could find was the good old signed Dizzy Dean baseball.  What a friggin' idiot I was...


I did the same thing to a Mickey Mantle ball. I should have been beaten repeatedly.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2009, 01:17:12 pm »
Had a singed Dizzy Dean baseball with the logo of his burger(?) joint on it.  Was about 7 or 8 playing ball outside.  Lost a couple of balls early and we all wanted to keep playing.  Only ball I could find was the good old signed Dizzy Dean baseball.  What a friggin' idiot I was...

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2009, 01:29:25 pm »

I did the same thing to a Mickey Mantle ball. I should have been beaten repeatedly.
My great uncle gave my older brother a ball he got signed in 1928 by the Philadelphia Athletics--we're talking Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Al Simmons, Jimmie Fox, the whole freaking team.  My brother decided he needed to pass it along in the family for some reason, and gave it to our nephew.  I haven't spoken to either since.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2009, 02:12:39 pm »
i saw your story in Sandlot.

That was a Babe Ruth ball and it was replaced.  I was not so lucky...
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2009, 02:19:23 pm »

I did the same thing to a Mickey Mantle ball. I should have been beaten repeatedly.

There's a C4 or Julio Lugo story in there somewhere.

I had a Stan Musial autographed baseball and picture that I picked up in his St. Louis restaurant on a father/son getaway school trip back in September of '70.  Biggest memory of the night was Lou Brock's throwing one well into the stands on a throw home (that and getting to go into the dugout before the game).

For years I thought I had something incredibly valuable in those Musial items; that is, until the trade show politely advised me that they were essentially mimeographed/mass produced.  Oh, the humanity and shit. 
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2009, 02:23:15 pm »
Here's what I don't get:
So I decided to drive up to Lubbock today, run some errands, see the sights...
After spending six of the longest years of my life in Lubbock, I just have to ask: What sites?

I grew up with Gene and Passe. One could not get through a Little League game without at least one parent exclaiming "now you chuckin' it in 'ere Jimmy (or Billy or Johnny)!".

One great memory I have was in about 1987 I was in the bar owned by Gene's son (I didn't know he was Gene's son at the time) and Gene came in and I bought him a beer. He shook my hand and thanked me. Gene was one of the best PBP radio guys ever. I consider him to be in the same class as Vin Scully. Milo always seemed to be Lowell Passe's less intelligent doppelganger.
He breezed him, one more time!

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2009, 03:33:00 pm »
Gene was the best (except for Scully), but i hated Loel Passe.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2009, 06:11:29 pm »
Gene was the best (except for Scully), but i hated Loel Passe.

I loved Passe. He was a hokey homer, sure. But he was our hokey homer. I still miss his unapologetic rooting for the Astros on the air. How you firin' Kenny Forsch! And he breezed him one more time.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2009, 07:52:46 am »
I loved Passe. He was a hokey homer, sure. But he was our hokey homer. I still miss his unapologetic rooting for the Astros on the air. How you firin' Kenny Forsch! And he breezed him one more time.

ugh.
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geezerdonk

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Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2009, 09:54:20 am »
The first baseball broadcasts I listened to were Scully (with Connie Desmond). I listened to Scully almost everyday of baseball season for two years. I listened to Hodges, Barber and Allen occasionally during that time. Scully was the best. Elston compares favorably to Scully. Passe was awful, but entertaining. I thought that his goofiness provided a good contrast to Elston's professionalism.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2009, 11:03:06 am »
The first baseball broadcasts I listened to were Scully (with Connie Desmond). I listened to Scully almost everyday of baseball season for two years. I listened to Hodges, Barber and Allen occasionally during that time. Scully was the best. Elston compares favorably to Scully. Passe was awful, but entertaining. I thought that his goofiness provided a good contrast to Elston's professionalism.

i absolutely hated his unprofessionalism. Texas finally had a team in MLB, and to me, he was anything but big league.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2009, 11:14:02 am »
i absolutely hated his unprofessionalism. Texas finally had a team in MLB, and to me, he was anything but big league.


I was actually embarassed to be caught listening to Loel.
BTW, your buddy Capps reminds me a little of Elston. Same professional reporters approach to the job. Of course, being a professionally trained news journalist may instill that.

JimR

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2009, 12:46:02 pm »
Capps is more emotional on the air than Gene was, imo, but i agree re his broadcast journalism background.
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2009, 09:54:49 am »
Gene was the best (except for Scully), but i hated Loel Passe.

Couldn't agree more.  Even as a 10 or 11 yr old boy Passe felt wrong to me.

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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2009, 06:10:59 am »
Here's what I don't get:After spending six of the longest years of my life in Lubbock, I just have to ask: What sites?

There's this pecan tree, on the right hand side of the road, about 16 miles north of Lamesa...
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Re: Getting Nostaglic About Milo
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2009, 04:00:35 pm »
I started listening to Milo in '80 when my family moved to Chicagoland.  He was not good then, better than now but certainly had begun his descent, and I think being in the Cubs org and esp "working" with Harry Caray hastened his descent.
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Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.