More shameful journalism from the Comical

[juliogotay]

My apologies if I'm Cabreraing here but I just saw this. Talk about an alleged journalist inserting themselves into the story. http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2009/05/tackling_racist.html

I realize it's a blog and the rules are a little different than a column but this is way overboard IMHO.

[BatGirl]

racist

[BizidyDizidy]

This is probably the worst thing I have ever read. If I were Noe or Pravata I would have been embarassed to be implicated in it.

[Ron Brand]

JdJO advisory. That being said, he does reference Noe and Pravata. I just threw up a little.

[chuck]

It doesn't really bother me that Fat Chuy would write something like this. He's an idiot. He writes garbage like this. Fine.

What I don't get is that he turns it in and his editor - if he has one - reads it and says, 'Hey, great, let's put it up on your blog!' And there it sits. The editor - if there is one - should say, 'Are you fucking kidding me you brainless toad??? What the fuck is wrong with you? This shit has no business in a high school newspaper, much less a big city daily.'

But apparently that's not what happened.

[Limey]

It doesn't really bother me that Fat Chuy would write something like this. He's an idiot. He writes garbage like this. Fine.

What I don't get is that he turns it in and his editor - if he has one - reads it and says, 'Hey, great, let's put it up on your blog!' And there it sits. The editor - if there is one - should say, 'Are you fucking kidding me you brainless toad??? What the fuck is wrong with you? This shit has no business in a high school newspaper, much less a big city daily.'

But apparently that's not what happened.

To be fair to the editor, this is JdJO's blog, so I think it just goes straight from his ass keyboard to the website.  The proper criticism of the editor is that he/she should've dumped this hack years ago.

[Bench]

Not that I really care, but what prompted his blog post?  I don't see how or where the topic of racism comes up. 

[Noe]

This is probably the worst thing I have ever read. If I were Noe or Pravata I would have been embarassed to be implicated in it.

Implicated?  How so?

[Andyzipp]

Implicated?  How so?

Evidently, implicated = mentioned.

[Noe]

JdJO advisory. That being said, he does reference Noe and Pravata. I just threw up a little.

I don't get it?  I read it and I don't see how it's offensive at all.  JdJO is defending himself against claims of racism because he had started to say about the same thing that is said here.  He, unlike us, gets pummeled right back with some mean spirited e-mails and blog comments.  Not that he needs me to defend him, he's a big boy, he can handle it and is probably not inclined to keep the matter behind close doors because as I see it, when you relegate such matters as being called a racist to dark secret places , the calls gain credence.  Turn on the lights, watch the cockroaches scatter sorta speak.  Remember when McLane was called a racist by Telemundo?  I do, and the Chronicle lead the charge (namely John X. Lopez).  But shedding light on the matter helped stop the madness.  That's how it works.

What he's basically said about our site is that we level a lot of criticism his way in terms of writing, but we rarely if ever accuse him of hate.  I happen to think JdJO is a fine human interest writer and have mentioned more than once that his resume and awards speak loudly that he is good at what he does (re: human interest stories).  You want gym rat pure baseball stories?  Sorry, go somewhere else.  Long in this very site we've used the "go somewhere else" if you expect "rah-rah" fan site.  If we are allowed to hold true to ourselves, then JdJO should be afforded the same.  You don't like him, fine, go somewhere else.

End of story.

That he doesn't really think Cecil Cooper is competent is fine by me, I am leaning that way as well.  Martin Luther King Jr. said "I have a dream that one day a man will not be judged by the color of his skin, but by his character".  Is far from a racist remark on MLK's part to have us all judge one another, because if we can do it, let's do it for the right reasons.  Cooper is being judged by the character he has as a manager and it is coming up a little lacking.  Should we shy away from said verbalization simply because someone decides we are racist for doing so?

I think not.

[Noe]

Evidently, implicated = mentioned.

That's what I thought.  People who are smart should be able to read much better than that!

[Andyzipp]

What he's basically said about our site is that we level a lot of criticism his way in terms of writing, but we rarely if ever accuse him of hate.  I happen to think JdJO is a fine human interest writer and have mentioned more than once that his resume and awards speak loudly that he is good at what he does (re: human interest stories).  You want gym rat pure baseball stories?  Sorry, go somewhere else.  Long in this very site we've used the "go somewhere else" if you expect "rah-rah" fan site.  If we are allowed to hold true to ourselves, then JdJO should be afforded the same.  You don't like him, fine, go somewhere else.

End of story.

Are we still allowed to marvel at his ongoing employment?

[Noe]

Are we still allowed to marvel at his ongoing employment?

He said he can handle it.  Why not, fire away!

[HudsonHawk]

To be fair to the editor, this is JdJO's blog, so I think it just goes straight from his ass keyboard to the website.  The proper criticism of the editor is that he/she should've dumped this hack years ago.

People often say the internet will be the death of newspapers.  It's not the internet that's doing them in, it's allowing idiots like Ortiz to print what he's thinking.  That is without a doubt the single worst thing he's ever written in a very, very long line of horrendously bad writings.

[Filo]

(namely John X. Lopez)

I know I've lowered the collective IQ around here, but invoking the name of John Lopez isn't going to help that

[MRaup]

(namely John X. Lopez)

I know I've lowered the collective IQ around here, but invoking the name of John Lopez isn't going to help that

Had you not fucked up and added text to Noe's quote, this would've been the most intelligent thing you've ever written.

[MikeyBoy]

I wonder how FiLoe is even able to walk, with Mark's foot constantly up his ass.

[pravata]

I have no idea why my name is in that post.  Furthermore, I have no idea why that post was written.  Who, where, how, I mean really, is this still an issue?  Slow day at the Innuendo Store Jose?

[Noe]

I have no idea why my name is in that post.  Furthermore, I have no idea why that post was written.  Who, where, how, I mean really, is this still an issue?  Slow day at the Innuendo Store Jose?

It actually has nothing to do with us.  He is responding to his blog comments calling him a racist.  He used a lead-in that basically said he has no problem getting slammed, as evidenced how he'll take such criticism from such esteemed people as you, me and Mr. Royal (whoever he is)... just to name a few.  Then he goes on to write what he thought was a humor piece about racism.

The reality is that I think it's a valid conversation piece.  Do I think JdJO did a masterful job of writing about it?  Not really, but he attempted to shed light on the cockroaches by using humor and maybe it failed... maybe it didn't.  Still, the bigger issue remains and the more I think about it, the more this needs to be addressed.  See here is the rub, often we hear on this site and read in many others that the Astros would not entertain firing Cecil Cooper because it would be a PR mistake.  You know, firing a black manager when the accusations of institutional racism have been leveled in the past by many against the MLB.  The relationship between McLane and Selig also comes into play because as commissioner, Selig must feel some desire to fight against such accusations.  As a person, Selig also must feel some empathy for his friend Cecil Cooper.  A double whammy if you will.

So how does this play out then?

Well it seems many will whisper silently about Cooper's aptitude for this job, but will not step up and call him out.  Why?  Who wants to be on the firing line for the charges of racism?  No one apparently and that's a shame because it is counter to what civil rights leaders of the past fought so valiantly for and in the spirit of this Memorial Day weekend, what many died for: freedom.  What civil rights leaders fought for was dignity and equality.  Treat me with dignity afforded to a fellow human being.  Treat me equally as you would anyone else.  Single me out for my ethnicity or race and that is not fair nor right and that is what was fought and supposedly gained by the civil rights (heavy emphasis on civility).  We live in a society that has reshaped those societal gains into political fodder.  From treating each other with respect into leverage against entities in order to gain politically and in some cases financially.  We see it everyday and only whisper about how unfair it's all become.  We've made no real gains if what we've done as a society is enabled a few politically astute people to take what was fought hard for and turn it into personal gains.

We have to not be afraid to speak up.  What must we say?  We must treat each other the same way without regard to skin color, ethnicity and race.  We must call what we see with no regard to makeup other than character.  If a person is flawed, the civil rights movement fought for our right to say so... for all men and women, not just a select few.  If we have as a society embraced this in our own communities the way we treat our neighbors, embracing those who are friends and shunning those who are less than friendly, then we can embrace the same across other boundaries.  In this case, if we feel Cecil Cooper's managerial character is one that is lacking, fearing speaking out is taking us backwards, not forward.  So it is really necessary for us to take those whispers in the dark and shed light on them... bring out those comments about the Astros fearing a PR disaster from those inclined to label racism charges (again) against the team.  This is not McLane's first rodeo (pun intended) in terms of facing racism charges and it just so happens that a few brave men and women stood behind him while the many charged at him with vitrol and anger.  Those who stood behind him were of the same mindset as we should be:

Let's not move backwards on the gains made by the civil rights movement.  Spare me the use of your own political and financial gains to usher in false charges.  In fact, please just go away... we, as a society, are committed to continue to evolve into what we can ultimately become and we would like you to leave... now!

[Rebel Jew]

i think we found a new slogan for the site:

"Spikes n Stars.com:  they know their dang baseball"


no to mention an excuse i can use for pretty much the rest of my life:
"I don't do it because I'm grateful that you care."

[Bench]

  Still, the bigger issue remains and the more I think about it, the more this needs to be addressed.  See here is the rub, often we hear on this site and read in many others that the Astros would not entertain firing Cecil Cooper because it would be a PR mistake.  You know, firing a black manager when the accusations of institutional racism have been leveled in the past by many against the MLB.  The relationship between McLane and Selig also comes into play because as commissioner, Selig must feel some desire to fight against such accusations. 

It just doesn't seem like a legitimate issue to me.  Cooper's track record easily overcomes any allegations of racism.  If I were JdJO, I wouldn't dignify myself with a response, much less with such a hamfisted one that is found in that post. 

[chuck]

It just doesn't seem like a legitimate issue to me.  Cooper's track record easily overcomes any allegations of racism.  If I were JdJO, I wouldn't dignify myself with a response, much less with such a hamfisted one that is found in that post. 

This is exactly right. Instead of covering the fucking team he's childishly trying to draw attention to himself and remind us that he, the dorky sophomore scorekeeper, gets to hang around the seniors on the varsity. It's pathetic.

[Noe]

It just doesn't seem like a legitimate issue to me.  Cooper's track record easily overcomes any allegations of racism.  If I were JdJO, I wouldn't dignify myself with a response, much less with such a hamfisted one that is found in that post. 

You know, many would say to rise above the fray and much as many of would try, sometimes... sometimes... you just have to respond.  I'm not saying he picked the best way to do so, but at least he felt convicted enough to do so.  That I agree or disagree with him is another point altogether.

[Bench]

You know, many would say to rise above the fray and much as many of would try, sometimes... sometimes... you just have to respond.  I'm not saying he picked the best way to do so, but at least he felt convicted enough to do so.  That I agree or disagree with him is another point altogether.

I don't know who was throwing the race card at him, but the yammerings of a bunch of yahoo chron blog commenters (*cough - bushneck lackeys - cough*) shouldn't require a response.  Maybe I'm wrong and the comments came from individuals with greater legitimacy or influence, but so far I've seen no accusations of racism that merit anything more than an eye roll.

But, whatever.  It's his blog, he can write what he wants.  Obviously he felt he had to say something, but the entire discussion seems moronic to me.   

[Mr. Happy]

For the record, JDJO was too much of a pussy to run my comment as Mr. Happy that Noe and Pravata have forgotten more about baseball than he'll ever know. Not that either of them needed my defense, but him calling them out pissed me off.

[pravata]

This is exactly right. Instead of covering the fucking team he's childishly trying to draw attention to himself and remind us that he, the dorky sophomore scorekeeper, gets to hang around the seniors on the varsity. It's pathetic.

I think you're right about this.  And I think he has set himself up, using the entree of some random blog posters, to make the issue racist when the inevitable happens and Cooper does get fired.  I don't object to his focus on the interpersonal aspects of the game but I have two problems, (1A is I'm a little loopy from beer and hanging at the pool all day) the first problem is that he tries to make the story about himself.  His recent blog about Cooper and their interaction is my current example.  And more importantly, I have serious questions about his judgement.  His angle regarding Berkman and his slump.  He played it like Berkman was losing sleep and it was affecting his family life.  Footer wrote the same story but the back story was Berkman nonchalant like he always is.  Last season he created a controversy regarding Lee, Berkman, and Oswalt about whether they would wave their no trade clauses.  The issue was moot as the Astros had no intention of trading any of those guys.  His questions were purely intended to create controversy and draw attention to himself. 

[Noe]

For the record, JDJO was too much of a pussy to run my comment as Mr. Happy that Noe and Pravata have forgotten more about baseball than he'll ever know. Not that either of them needed my defense, but him calling them out pissed me off.

Once again, he did not call us out! *sigh*

[pravata]

Once again, he did not call us out! *sigh*

He's stupid.  He's not that stupid.

[Noe]

He's stupid.  He's not that stupid.

He's a writer.  They carry licenses for that, I think they call it creative licenses.  They use whatever they need to write a story.  If I knew french, I'd say "say la vee" or something like that.

[Mr. Happy]

Once again, he did not call us out! *sigh*

I didn't like what he did, irrespective of whether you agree with my assessment. So I told him so.

[pravata]

He's a writer.  They carry licenses for that, I think they call it creative licenses.  They use whatever they need to write a story.  If I knew french, I'd say "say la vee" or something like that.

Yeah.  Unfortunately he has been forced to enter into blog world where the conversation is two way  But he also has control regarding how and who they allow to respond.  I've experienced the sound of "click... bzzzzzzzzzzzzz" when the other side is uncomfortable with the response.  There's another French phrase, c'est la guerre.

[Noe]

I didn't like what he did, irrespective of whether you agree with my assessment. So I told him so.

Cool, leave me out.  And I don't know what he did to upset you!

[Noe]

Yeah.  Unfortunately he has been forced to enter into blog world where the conversation is two way  But he also has control regarding how and who they allow to respond.  I've experienced the sound of "click... bzzzzzzzzzzzzz" when the other side is uncomfortable with the response.  There's another French phrase, c'est la guerre.

I don't know what that would feel like, but it sounds painful!

[pravata]

I didn't like what he did, irrespective of whether you agree with my assessment. So I told him so.

Me either.  His preface was that he's not uncomfortable with criticism.  Not publishing your response calls bullshit to that premise.  I've responded to him, we'll see where it leads.  But I will tell you the conversation will not be one in which he controls the responses.

[Noe]

I don't know who was throwing the race card at him, but the yammerings of a bunch of yahoo chron blog commenters (*cough - bushneck lackeys - cough*) shouldn't require a response.

It's his blog, not mine.  He doesn't tell me what to write in here and I don't tell him what to write over there.  Seems fair enough to me.

Maybe I'm wrong and the comments came from individuals with greater legitimacy or influence, but so far I've seen no accusations of racism that merit anything more than an eye roll.

It's not just this blog entry but a couple of earlier ones with his Cooper rants.  As I remember, these blogs of his have caused stirs when he:

1. Took on Craig Biggio (for being past his prime and being a hanger-on)
2. Took on Tony LaRussa (for DUI)

If this Cooper thing is following suit, he's probably receiving a ton of hate mail too.  We're not privy to what is being said, but if it's primarily racist accusations, then I can understand wanting to speak out.  I refer back to the Telemundo flap here several years ago.  We didn't stay quiet here, we spoke out.  I guess we could've stayed in the wings and watched the parade of morons walk by, but we didn't.  We jumped in and many a good TZer found some great information that we shared and were able to help in the cause of some serious injustice going on.  I was proud of the TZ then, still am today.

I don't know the seriousness of these current racist accusations, but I dare not tell anyone they have no right to defend themselves if they so desire.  I would and I would not care who told me otherwise.

But, whatever.  It's his blog, he can write what he wants.  Obviously he felt he had to say something, but the entire discussion seems moronic to me.

Cool. 

[Andyzipp]

So can we agree that JdJO wrote a blog of questionable quality.  And while mentioning Noé and pravata in passing in said article, made no slanderous, libelous, or derogatory statements towards either.

So the actual issue here is that JdJO is stirring the pot.  What else is new?

[Noe]

So can we agree that JdJO wrote a blog of questionable quality.  And while mentioning Noé and pravata in passing in said article, made no slanderous, libelous, or derogatory statements towards either.

So the actual issue here is that JdJO is stirring the pot.  What else is new?

Ahhhh-gree!  We're not made of glass (at least I'm not) and I find nothing offensive in what he did or wrote.  I don't read his stuff much and his attempt at humor was nice but didn't pack a serious punch that he probably thought it should.  Now, let the group in his blog have their fun poking at that subject matter, it's their right to do so.

Live and let live.  Been the motto here for over a decade and nothing is going to change that.  Move on!

[chuck]

We're not privy to what is being said, but if it's primarily racist accusations, then I can understand wanting to speak out.

It appears he's responding to specific posts in the previous "blog:"

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2009/05/cooper_provides.html

The conversation was started by a poster named Rob.

The comments seem to me to be very, very innocuous ("Would there be this much outcry if the manager were white?" Etc.), and Fat Chuy's response seems to me to be nearly wildly overwrought.

[Astroholic]

It appears he's responding to specific posts in the previous "blog:"

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2009/05/cooper_provides.html

The conversation was started by a poster named Rob.

The comments seem to me to be very, very innocuous ("Would there be this much outcry if the manager were white?" Etc.), and Fat Chuy's response seems to me to be nearly wildly overwrought.

Thanks to the Vets we have a choice.   We can either choose to read his shit...or not.  I choose Not. 

[juliogotay]

This is exactly right. Instead of covering the fucking team he's childishly trying to draw attention to himself and remind us that he, the dorky sophomore scorekeeper, gets to hang around the seniors on the varsity. It's pathetic.

This was my impression when I posted this article. It wasn't so much if the guy was right or not. It was the attention he was focusing on himself as a reporter. To me, this is akin to the umpire that throws the star player out too quickly because he "can". It's not so much whether the call was right it's that the umpire is now too big a part of the game. The best umpires may  be ones in which we don't know their names. How many of you even knew who Neil Holfeld was when he covered the Astros? Damn good reporter. Of course ( he writes sadly) it is a different time and blogs and such have changed the landscape of reporting.

[pravata]

So can we agree that JdJO wrote a blog of questionable quality.  And while mentioning Noé and pravata in passing in said article, made no slanderous, libelous, or derogatory statements towards either.

So the actual issue here is that JdJO is stirring the pot.  What else is new?

His premise is that he can take criticism, as evidence he cites that he reads how I, and Noe criticize him at SnS.  By this method he tries to set himself up as a neutral observer to lend credence to write what he's going to write next.  Nothing slanderous, nothing libelous, nothing derogatory (in fact he seems to think it's complementary) to me it's just manipulative.  Speaking only for me, I don't want to be a data point in his fabrications. 

[Andyzipp]

His premise is that he can take criticism, as evidence he cites that he reads how I, and Noe criticize him at SnS.  By this method he tries to set himself up as a neutral observer to lend credence to write what he's going to write next.  Nothing slanderous, nothing libelous, nothing derogatory (in fact he seems to think it's complementary) to me it's just manipulative.  Speaking only for me, I don't want to be a data point in his fabrications. 

Sure.  Just don't understand why everyone ELSE is getting their panties in a wad about it.  By this point, the whole thing has gotten far more attention than it deserves.

[Rebel Jew]

His premise is that he can take criticism, as evidence he cites that he reads how I, and Noe criticize him at SnS.  By this method he tries to set himself up as a neutral observer to lend credence to write what he's going to write next.  Nothing slanderous, nothing libelous, nothing derogatory (in fact he seems to think it's complementary) to me it's just manipulative.  Speaking only for me, I don't want to be a data point in his fabrications. 

the "hey everybody, i can take criticism, just look at..." boast is a classic excuse from the type of person who actually can't take criticism, a slight shifting of the argument away from actually having to acknowledge or learn from what others are saying about you.  it's a cousin of the "i have lots of black friends" argument, which, hilariously enough, he uses in this article when he talks about his wife.

[pravata]

Sure.  Just don't understand why everyone ELSE is getting their panties in a wad about it.  By this point, the whole thing has gotten far more attention than it deserves.

That's how it goes, nothing gets exactly the amount of attention it deserves.

[Andyzipp]

the "hey everybody, i can take criticism, just look at..." boast is a classic excuse from the type of person who actually can't take criticism, a slight shifting of the argument away from actually having to acknowledge or learn from what others are saying about you.  it's a cousin of the "i have lots of black friends" argument, which, hilariously enough, he uses in this article when he talks about his wife.

But I do have lots of black friends...

[JimR]

That's how it goes, nothing gets exactly the amount of attention it deserves.

as always, his stuff is "hey, look at ME!" no one can ever call him a journalist. that gives journalism a very bad name.

[HudsonHawk]

as always, his stuff is "hey, look at ME!" no one can ever call him a journalist. that gives journalism a very bad name.

I think he's of the Dick Justice School of "I'm Not A Journalist, I'm A Columnist"ism.  He thinks people pay to read whatever's on his mind.  Perhaps some do. 

[Noe]

This was my impression when I posted this article. It wasn't so much if the guy was right or not. It was the attention he was focusing on himself as a reporter. To me, this is akin to the umpire that throws the star player out too quickly because he "can". It's not so much whether the call was right it's that the umpire is now too big a part of the game. The best umpires may  be ones in which we don't know their names. How many of you even knew who Neil Holfeld was when he covered the Astros? Damn good reporter. Of course ( he writes sadly) it is a different time and blogs and such have changed the landscape of reporting.

I have to ask: are you really for the first time *ever* reading JdJO?  If so, I can understand.  If not, you've *never* noticed this before?  What you're saying is very old news around here.

[Mr. Happy]

as always, his stuff is "hey, look at ME!" no one can ever call him a journalist. that gives journalism a very bad name.

This is exactly right. Narcissistic much?

[pravata]

as always, his stuff is "hey, look at ME!" no one can ever call him a journalist. that gives journalism a very bad name.

And I dont think the excuse that blogs should be treated differently than other types of reporting is relevant anymore.

[juliogotay]

I have to ask: are you really for the first time *ever* reading JdJO?  If so, I can understand.  If not, you've *never* noticed this before?  What you're saying is very old news around here.

I can't say I've never read him but  not often. Yes, I've noticed before....not to this degree.

[pravata]

For the record, JDJO was too much of a pussy to run my comment as Mr. Happy that Noe and Pravata have forgotten more about baseball than he'll ever know. Not that either of them needed my defense, but him calling them out pissed me off.

He has posted it.  He has explained that other priorities prohibited posting the responses immediately.

[Mr. Happy]

He has posted it.  He has explained that other priorities prohibited posting the responses immediately.

I still think that he's a pussy.

[Noe]

Why it bothers everyone ('cept pravata) is beyond me.  Maybe I just don't understand, that's all.  Oh, and I feel so dirty that some of you think I appreciate someone defending me, as if I am so hurt by a mere mention of my name (innocuously), I am cowering in some corner somewhere crying.  I don't need it nor welcome it, I'm not thin skinned nor am I made of glass.  You want to fight with a blogger, go right ahead and do so, just leave me out.  Oh and my opinion about your desire to fight with a blogger is that you should know better (and I've respected you guys as being much better than that too). That is my dos centavos.

[Noe]

I can't say I've never read him but  not often. Yes, I've noticed before....not to this degree.

Cool, now you know.

[Limey]

Sure.  Just don't understand why everyone ELSE is getting their panties in a wad about it.  By this point, the whole thing has gotten far more attention than it deserves.

Which strikes me as being JdJO's whole strategy.  By citing a couple of SnS posters' names, he's garnered a whole thread about himself here, and probably a few hundred more hits to his blog.  Maybe it's pay review time.

"There's only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about."
 - Monty Python Oscar Wilde

[Andyzipp]

Cool, now you know.

And Knowing is half the battle.  Go Joe!