Rockets playoff thread

[TheWizard]

I was pretty pissed off last night that we blew the opportunity to potentially be a 2 seed (they f'ing fouled Yao every possession when they fronted him and the refs weren't calling jacksh&*%&%), but I'm over it now, and ready for the playoff run.  Still happy we got Portland, but its no easy task to win on their homecourt.  I think they only lost to two Western Conf teams all year.  With the Jazz/Lakers playing each other, I think that eliminates at least one of the two teams that poses the worst matchups for us.  I'm thinking we can at least make it to the WCF. Agree, disagree, don't give a crap?

Oh, and only slightly, slightly related... KG could be out for the playoffs.  Sorry Cs.

[Andyzipp]

Blazers in 5

[MusicMan]

Getting the Blazers as the first round matchup is a good thing, home court be damned.  But the Lakers will sweep them in round 2, and the Rockets will claim Moral Victory just for getting out of the first friggin round.

[sporadic]

Getting the Blazers as the first round matchup is a good thing, home court be damned.  But the Lakers will sweep them in round 2, and the Rockets will claim Moral Victory just for getting out of the first friggin round.

I agree with all but the sweep...Lakers win series 4-2

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Rockets in 5, then Von Wafer has a strong game 1 against the Lakers, inspiring Kobe to average 40 ppg for the rest of the series.

[matadorph]

Last night was very demoralizing, especially flipping over to the Spurs/Hornets just moments before the Hornets melted down and left Michael Finley wide open.

Rocket fans just knew that was gonna happen.

Parker(?) swings the ball over to an undefended Finley and Finley's all "BOOM ROASTED." Right at the fucking buzzer. I don't know why they even bothered to play the OT session.

[hostros7]

Last night's game just felt so Rockets that it hurt.  The 2nd quarter was inspiring, and I was just stupid enough to think "this team is really peaking at the right time."  Then, you faced the reality of the last 18 minutes. That said, if this team can focus on getting the ball to Yao (and the refs actually call a fall for the guy) and Ron doesn't decide he needs to be T-Mac, I think the Rockets can pull it out against Portland.  If they don't call falls on that shitbox Pryzbilla for Yao, I won't know what to do.  My secret hope is Rockets get revenge on the Jazz in Rd. 2.  Reality says rockets lose to the Lakers 4-1.  I don't think Kobe can be stopped in the post-season, only perhaps maybe counterbalanced by Lebron.

[TheWizard]

Last night was very demoralizing, especially flipping over to the Spurs/Hornets just moments before the Hornets melted down and left Michael Finley wide open.

Rocket fans just knew that was gonna happen.

Parker(?) swings the ball over to an undefended Finley and Finley's all "BOOM ROASTED." Right at the fucking buzzer. I don't know why they even bothered to play the OT session.

Exactly.. I switched over just as the 3 pointer got sunk.  What a great night.

[Gizzmonic]

Exactly.. I switched over just as the 3 pointer got sunk.  What a great night.

[deadhorse] Especially considering that Time Warner San Antonio does not consider the Astros broadcast-worthy [/deadhorse].

[otterjb]

Vegas has Portland as medium favorites to win the series:

Houston +130 (100 bucks wins 130)
Portland -150 (150 bucks wins 100)

Dallas +125
SA -145

To win the Western Conference:

LA -245
SA +1015
Denver +1015
Houston +1615
Portland +1615
NO +2050
Dallas +2550
Utah +4050

If the Lakers don't win the West, it'll be a huge upset, which would be great.

[HudsonHawk]

How about THAT beatdown?  Fuck yeah...pound the ol' Budweiser!!!!

[matadorph]

Wow, I'm not surprised that the Rockets stole home court back in game 1, but I didn't expect a curbstomping like that. The Rockets played flawless basketball tonight. I feel a lot better than I did in the wake of Wednesday night's game.

[Bench]

How about THAT beatdown?  Fuck yeah...pound the ol' Budweiser!!!!

Yao was awesome tonight.  I also love watching Battier and Artest just attack the other team on defense.  With Scola flying around like a drunken hooligan, it's a fun team to watch.

[matadorph]

Yao was awesome, but so was Brooks. The short guy played the game of his life.

[chuck]

That looked like a basketball team. I could actually tell that they were running an offense and playing intelligent defense, switching off, etc. Are you sure that was the Houston Rockets?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

That team last night, the one that played the Trail Blazers, where did they come from?

That was the best Rockets game since '95.

[Rebel Jew]

Yao was awesome, but so was Brooks. The short guy played the game of his life.

i haven't watched basketball in a long time.  are you talking about scotty brooks?  is he still on the team?

[kevwun]

Aaron Brooks

[HudsonHawk]

i haven't watched basketball in a long time.  are you talking about scotty brooks?  is he still on the team?

Yes, it was Scotty Brooks.  Rober Reid also had a great game. 

[chuck]

Poor Trum sees the rare appearance of "Barry" in the line score and just gets all kinds of confused.

[Andyzipp]

Yes, it was Scotty Brooks.  Rober Reid also had a great game. 

Once again, Allen Leavell was a dsiappointment.  If Lewis Lloyd gets untracked, the Blazers are done.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Akeem, and Sampson filling up the middle.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

i haven't watched basketball in a long time.  are you talking about scotty brooks?  is he still on the team?

He coaches the Thunder. They're in Oklahoma City. Yes, Oklahoma city has a NBA team. Kevin Durant plays there.

[TheWizard]

What a game... they absolutely crushed them.  I was loving it.  Yao couldn't be stopped (other than by the refs), AB played out of his mind, even Deke got to wave his finger.

[Fredia]

i remember the glory days of the rockets .. may they return ten fold

[Rebel Jew]

He coaches the Thunder. They're in Oklahoma City. Yes, Oklahoma city has a NBA team. Kevin Durant plays there.

well i'll be dipped.  i thought oklahoma was still indian territory.  do they not have sales tax at the arena?

does brooks still look like this?
http://www.the700level.com/images/scotty_brooks.jpg

[hostros7]

Anyone know how to get this NBA TV channel that is needed to watch the Rockets tomorrow?  I guess I may be "forced" into going to a bar to watch it.

On comcast you can add this:

http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Programming/sports/SEPackage.html

[Limey]

For those appropriately equipped, there is an NBA Playoff app for the iPhone.  It's nothing as good as the MLB app, but it gives you live scores, the match-ups and TV schedule.  Oh, and it's free.

[ybbodeus]

He coaches the Thunder. They're in Oklahoma City. Yes, Oklahoma city has a NBA team. Kevin Durant plays there.

Have the Thunder retired Kevin's number, yet?

[MusicMan]

Anyone know how to get this NBA TV channel that is needed to watch the Rockets tomorrow?  I guess I may be "forced" into going to a bar to watch it.

On comcast you can add this:

http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Programming/sports/SEPackage.html

I think my20pixels is showing all games as well.

[TheWizard]

My league pass apparently is no good for the playoffs, so no NBA TV for me.  Anyone have an idea of where to watch the game tonight in Austin?  3rd Base?

[Noe]

Our friends over at ClutchFans.org (fan forum only, not on main site) are really good at telling you where you can catch the game via the internet.  Usually places like www.channelsurfing.net will be their choice, but sometimes those guys find really good feeds from other places as well.

http://channelsurfing.net/

Scroll to the bottom and you'll see that they have links to the webcast (free) for the game.

[matadorph]

My league pass apparently is no good for the playoffs, so no NBA TV for me.  Anyone have an idea of where to watch the game tonight in Austin?  3rd Base?

I have NBA TV on my sports tier (but no MLB Network, dadgummit), but I will be watching with my hoop buddies at Cover 3.

[otterjb]

My league pass apparently is no good for the playoffs, so no NBA TV for me.  Anyone have an idea of where to watch the game tonight in Austin?  3rd Base?

I ordered the Sports Pak from Time Warner, then plan to cancel tomorrow...$6.99 a month, pro-rated for two days = 56 cents.

[Ebby Calvin]

Can we rename the Bill Worrell Button the Clyde Drexler Button?  Please?
Fucking awful.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Good grief Artest was awful tonight.

[otterjb]

How does Yao Ming only take 6 shots all game?

[matadorph]

Deke's career is over. What a terrible way for such an awesome guy to go out.

For one day at least, the entire basketball world wants to sex Mutombo.

[Astroholic]

Good grief Artest was awful tonight.

And Joey Crawford still sucks.

[MikeyBoy]

And Joey Crawford still sucks.

He wants the game to be all about Joey. He's the Angel Hernandez of the NBA.

[MusicMan]

And Joey Crawford still sucks.

If the NBA wants to know why conspiracy theories continue, they should take a look at that guy.

[MusicMan]

Mutumbo: "Basketball is over."

Farewell, Deke.  I hope your good works continue.

[Astroholic]

Mutumbo: "Basketball is over."

Farewell, Deke.  I hope your good works continue.

Will miss you Cookie Monster.

[Limey]

If the NBA wants to know why conspiracy theories continue, they should take a look at that guy.

I got back from the Astros last night (yes, I stuck it out until the end) just in time to see the refs gift Portland 6 points and turn a nail-biter into (what should have been) a comfortable win for the Trailmixers.  Not sure I can handle watching another game because I don't want to have to kill my nice TV.

[Andyzipp]

I think the officiating crews rotate, so you don't get the same refs all series.  At least I hope that's true.

[Limey]

I think the officiating crews rotate, so you don't get the same refs all series.  At least I hope that's true.

They were talking about this post-game; the refs rotate.  Clyde was musing over whether the same refs should work an entire series, but I think that was because he thought Friday's crew was much better.  You'd hate to get stuck with Crawford for 7 games.

[Andyzipp]

I kept expecting to come back from a time out and hear Worrell tell us that Drexler had been asked to leave the building by Crawford.  Good to know that time hasn't healed the wounds between Crawford and Clyde.

[Astroholic]

I kept expecting to come back from a time out and hear Worrell tell us that Drexler had been asked to leave the building by Crawford.  Good to know that time hasn't healed the wounds between Crawford and Clyde.

I bet Joey does not have many friends in the game, but what he did to Clyde was borderline psycho. He was suspended for those aggressions against Clyde, right?

[Astroholic]

My bad.  He was suspended for Duncan incident in 07.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2840587

It was Jake O'Donnell that was Clyde's agressor.

Edited to correct my horrible spelling

[matadorph]

I thought it was Duncan?

[matadorph]

That was such a bullshit call on Lowry at the end. He never even touched Fernandez and Crawford whistled him for the foul when it should've been Rocket ball with 2 seconds left.

[Astroholic]

That was such a bullshit call on Lowry at the end. He never even touched Fernandez and Crawford whistled him for the foul when it should've been Rocket ball with 2 seconds left.

What about the foul call on Battier when Roy was falling out of bounds.  Or when Mutumbo got called for a foul on the play where his knee seperated.. or......

It was a horrible game by the officials.  Just Turreble.

[MusicMan]

The flop by Pryzbilla that drew Yao's fourth "foul" made soccer players cringe.

[Limey]

The flop by Pryzbilla that drew Yao's fourth "foul" made soccer players cringe.

There was simple stuff - so simple even I spotted it before Clyde piped up - such as a Blazer (don't know which) stood in the paint for about 10 seconds, then caught the ball, then stood still with it for another 5, and no whistle before they move the ball and make a basket.  The guy was like a fucking tree in there.

[MRaup]

The fact that Crawford is still an NBA official is all the proof I need to know that NBA officials are either  controlled by the mob or that there are league mandated instructions to officials during the playoffs. You can't fire a guy that would sing like a canary the second he was handed his pink slip.

[TheWizard]

I can't tell if I'm blinded by homerism, but I thought that was one of the worst, one-sided officiated games I can remember.  The refs took over.  They had as big a game as Brandon Roy.

And why on earth didn't Yao get the ball more???

[hostros7]

I can't tell if I'm blinded by homerism, but I thought that was one of the worst, one-sided officiated games I can remember.  The refs took over.  They had as big a game as Brandon Roy.

And why on earth didn't Yao get the ball more???

Because the refs allowed the Blazers to guard him with the same amount of love a prison boyfriend showers his mate with.  Pun unfortunately intended and on several levels.

[sporadic]

I can't tell if I'm blinded by homerism, but I thought that was one of the worst, one-sided officiated games I can remember.  The refs took over.  They had as big a game as Brandon Roy.

And why on earth didn't Yao get the ball more???

You absolutely are not.  It was horriffic, one of the bottom 5 I have ever seen, in any sport at any level.  The were killing Yao and he was not getting any calls...had they forced it to him it would have turned into a turnover-fest, IMO.  Refs took Yao out of the game, not the Rockets coaching staff or Trailblazers.

[TheWizard]

We still took one on the road and got home court advantage.. I guess I'll take that.  It was still a tough loss.  One thing that would make me happy is if our team just looked to get Yao the ball more often.  The Blazers cannot guard him.  But I will say this... the refs can.  They had as much an impact on taking Yao out of the game.

[TheWizard]

What does everyone think of Brooks so far in the series?  He obviously was a vital part of the win in game 1.  And he had 20 points in game 2, but he racked up half of that in the last minute or two of the game.  This is my opinion, but I feel like he can knock down the three better than Lowry, but I feel safer with Lowry running the point.  He seems more calm, collected, and in control.  I definitely don't think Brooks should be benched, I just think Lowry could be effective with some more playing time.

[sporadic]

What does everyone think of Brooks so far in the series?  He obviously was a vital part of the win in game 1.  And he had 20 points in game 2, but he racked up half of that in the last minute or two of the game.  This is my opinion, but I feel like he can definitely knock down the three better than Lowry, but I feel safer with Lowry running the point.  He seems more calm, collected, and in control.  I definitely don't think Brooks should be benched, I just think Lowry could be effective with some more playing time.

I like the two of them together...the way I liked Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell together.  They provide a dramatic contrast for opposing teams...one is more effective because of the other type of thing.  You cannot match Brooks' speed, and Lowry is a really strong guy...and a good finisher for a smallish fella.

[hostros7]

I like the two of them together...the way I liked Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell together.  They provide a dramatic contrast for opposing teams...one is more effective because of the other type of thing.  You cannot match Brooks' speed, and Lowry is a really strong guy...and a good finisher for a smallish fella.

Agree, but Brooks is little good to us if he drives and doesn't look for his shot.  If you just want a general out there running the offense, give me Lowry.  The tandem complements each other well as long as Brooks isn't just dribbling around the floor in circles.

[Astroholic]

I was reaaly proud of the way the Rockets played last night.  They play very hard and just about stole one.  Free throw shooting was horrible.  Artest was...well Artest.  Yao was not a factor, scoring anyways.  The refs were a huge factor.  Hostile crowd.  Deke went down.  After all of this, the Boys still almost pulled it off.  This team is fun to watch.

[sporadic]

Agree, but Brooks is little good to us if he drives and doesn't look for his shot.  If you just want a general out there running the offense, give me Lowry.  The tandem complements each other well as long as Brooks isn't just dribbling around the floor in circles.

I like the baseline dribble through to the opposite baseline...when you got guys like Scola and Landry cutting on those plays it is a headache to defend, forces the opposing big man to commit and opens up passing lanes (if that is the "dribbling in circles" you are referring to)

[hostros7]

I like the baseline dribble through to the opposite baseline...when you got guys like Scola and Landry cutting on those plays it is a headache to defend, forces the opposing big man to commit and opens up passing lanes (if that is the "dribbling in circles" you are referring to)

Right, he should drive looking for open cutters and be prepared to go to the hole or pull up if not.  Where I don't think it's productive when none of the passing lanes open up and there is no plan B. 

[sporadic]

Right, he should drive looking for open cutters and be prepared to go to the hole or pull up if not.  Where I don't think it's productive when none of the passing lanes open up and there is no plan B. 

The plan B out of that is to get the strong side defender to commit so you can re-post on the weak side of that play...once the lane is closed, the center either rolls across the face of his defender or moves to the foul line area, where the ball can be rotated to the wing to post high or back in to the center to the newly established post position on the baseline, or at least that is what I was always told.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Von Wafer and the fro-hawk are bringin it tonight.

[TheWizard]

Artest and Battier did a great job on Roy tonight, really had him frustrated.  And Ron wasn't jacking shots like crazy.  Yao still didn't get many good looks, but the team played well overall. 

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Artest and Battier did a great job on Roy tonight, really had him frustrated.  And Ron wasn't jacking shots like crazy.  Yao still didn't get many good looks, but the team played well overall. 

Artest didn't attempt a shot until the 3rd quarter, yet he was contributing to the lead with defense and ball distribution (beyond the normal 2 per player).  A far cry from his game 2 craptacular display.

For the Rockets the 4th quarter is going to be white knuckle time, and I'm just going to have to live with it.  Preferably with the aid of some Scotch. 

[TheWizard]

And in the other Texas matchup, the Spurs look done.  I'm fairly surprised, I thought they'd lay the hammer down on the Mavs.  Looks like I was wrong... very wrong.

[TheWizard]

Big win, up 3-1.  Didn't give away the game down the finish.

[Limey]

Big win, up 3-1.  Didn't give away the game down the finish.

That was a thoroughly enjoyable game to watch.  Now I'm off to get a fro-hawk.

[Ebby Calvin]

Wow, 4th Q officiating so far is brutal.  Just gave Portland 7 free points.

[Ebby Calvin]

Wow, 4th Q NBA officiating so far is brutal.

FIFM

[astrojo]

when they went up 4, I thought they would finish it tonight. then 15 unanswered...

[Noe]

I was afraid of this happening, so it didn't come as a surprise to me that they lost tonight.  Barkley mentioned how it's not a big deal, Houston is smart to not kill themselves for this win.  But to me, now Portland has a "win just one game in Houston and we come back home for game seven" mentality.  I hate the usual "we have three games to win one" type of mentality.  I love the "when a team is down, you have to keep them down by putting your foot on the throat and pressing down!".  IOW - Barkley is wrong and Houston better think game six is their game seven so they can play inspired basketball.

[hostros7]

FIFM

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but something is fucked about NBA officiating.  They may be all from 112 chromosome town in W. Virginia or something, but something is amiss.

[MusicMan]

Barkley mentioned how it's not a big deal, Houston is smart to not kill themselves for this win. 

Strange, considering that he was the one that wrote on Suns' board during the now-legendary "Clutch City" 3-1 series, prior to game 5:

"They want to die - we have to kill them!"

[HudsonHawk]

Strange, considering that he was the one that wrote on Suns' board during the now-legendary "Clutch City" 3-1 series, prior to game 5:

"They want to die - we have to kill them!"

The Rockets weren't down 3-1 in the "Clutch City" series.  They were down 0-2.

[MusicMan]

I knew I was mixing that up.  94 and 95 start to blur.

[HudsonHawk]

I knew I was mixing that up.  94 and 95 start to blur.

'94 was the "Clutch City" year.  Playing at home in the first two games, they blew an 18-point lead in Game 1 then a 20-point lead in the 4th quarter of Game 2 (the largest blown lead in NBA playoff history).  The headlines of the Chron read "CHOKE CITY".  They went to Phoenix and won Games 3 and 4.  The next Chron headline read "CLUTCH CITY".  They went on to win Game 5 in Houston, lose Game 6 in Phoenix, then win the series in Game 7 in Houston.  Of course they went on to beat Utah in the Conference Finals in five games (including the infamous stalled clock in Game 4 in Utah) and then the Knicks in the Finals. The headline simply read "CHAMP CITY".  I still have the front page of the Chron somewhere.

[Astroholic]

'94 was the "Clutch City" year.  Playing at home in the first two games, they blew an 18-point lead in Game 1 then a 20-point lead in the 4th quarter of Game 2 (the largest blown lead in NBA playoff history).  The headlines of the Chron read "CHOKE CITY".  They went to Phoenix and won Games 3 and 4.  The next Chron headline read "CLUTCH CITY".  They went on to win Game 5 in Houston, lose Game 6 in Phoenix, then win the series in Game 7 in Houston.  Of course they went on to beat Utah in the Conference Finals in five games (including the infamous stalled clock in Game 4 in Utah) and then the Knicks in the Finals. The headline simply read "CHAMP CITY".  I still have the front page of the Chron somewhere.

Reminds me of the tombstone story.  BTW, those were great times to be in Houston.

[Limey]

'94 was the "Clutch City" year.  Playing at home in the first two games, they blew an 18-point lead in Game 1 then a 20-point lead in the 4th quarter of Game 2 (the largest blown lead in NBA playoff history).  The headlines of the Chron read "CHOKE CITY".  They went to Phoenix and won Games 3 and 4.  The next Chron headline read "CLUTCH CITY".  They went on to win Game 5 in Houston, lose Game 6 in Phoenix, then win the series in Game 7 in Houston.  Of course they went on to beat Utah in the Conference Finals in five games (including the infamous stalled clock in Game 4 in Utah) and then the Knicks in the Finals. The headline simply read "CHAMP CITY".  I still have the front page of the Chron somewhere.

Fuck the Jazz.  I'm not sure that I've ever hated a team and it's players (and cheating motherfucker of a time-keeper) more than those wankers.  Yes, I am aware of the existence of the Cubs and Cardinals.

[HudsonHawk]

Reminds me of the tombstone story.  BTW, those were great times to be in Houston.

'94 was really something.  I remember in '86, it was such a feeling when they beat the Lakers to get to the Finals, but you got the feeling that people were just happy to be there, that they really didn't stand much of a chance.  But in '94, it was a completely different feeling.  You just *knew* they were going to win (despite NBC interrupting Game 5 to show O.J. in his infamous low-speed chase).  The party on Richmond Ave. after Game 7 was legendary.

[HudsonHawk]

Fuck the Jazz.  I'm not sure that I've ever hated a team and it's players (and cheating motherfucker of a time-keeper) more than those wankers.  Yes, I am aware of the existence of the Cubs and Cardinals.

I think I may be right there with you. 

[JackAstro]

Fuck the Jazz.  I'm not sure that I've ever hated a team and it's players (and cheating motherfucker of a time-keeper) more than those wankers.  Yes, I am aware of the existence of the Cubs and Cardinals.

Amen. There has never been a trio of players that has raised my blood pressure to the levels that Stockton, Malone and Hornacek did. Just thinking about them right now, I find that I'm involuntarily grinding my teeth, primed to scream at the television...

[Astroholic]

I think I may be right there with you. 

Stockton and Malone made Dyktra look like a Saint.

[BudGirl]

I would agree with the Jazz hate, but now Cuban is in the NBA and he tops everyone.

[Astroholic]

Hornacek

Oh and fucking Hornacek with that stupid brow wipe before each free throw which he 'earned' with a flop.  Simply can't stand those mother fuckers.  The current Jazz are no better, so I think it falls on the coach.  

[Astroholic]

I would agree with the Jazz hate, but now Cuban is in the NBA and he tops everyone.

Not for me.  Cuban is like the cubs to me..fun to laught at..but overall pretty harmless.

[Limey]

Amen. There has never been a trio of players that has raised my blood pressure to the levels that Stockton, Malone and Hornacek did. Just thinking about them right now, I find that I'm involuntarily grinding my teeth, primed to scream at the television...

The only good thing about Karl Malone was Jimmy Kimmel's impersonation of Karl Malone.

[subnuclear]

Oh and fucking Hornacek with that stupid brow wipe before each free throw which he 'earned' with a flop.  Simply can't stand those mother fuckers.  The current Jazz are no better, so I think it falls on the coach.  

I am now likely to commit a violent crime on the way to the cafeteria just by reading the word Hornacek. 

[homer]

'94 was really something.  I remember in '86, it was such a feeling when they beat the Lakers to get to the Finals, but you got the feeling that people were just happy to be there, that they really didn't stand much of a chance.  But in '94, it was a completely different feeling.  You just *knew* they were going to win (despite NBC interrupting Game 5 to show O.J. in his infamous low-speed chase).  The party on Richmond Ave. after Game 7 was legendary.

I thought Bob Costas was going to cry. It was awesome.

[JackAstro]

Oh and fucking Hornacek with that stupid brow wipe before each free throw which he 'earned' with a flop.  Simply can't stand those mother fuckers.  The current Jazz are no better, so I think it falls on the coach.  

I already hated Stockton and Malone with such a burning passion, I couldn't fathom it getting any worse. When they added Hornacek, I remember wondering, "how the fuck is this even possible?" I thought they had already reached the upper threshold of how much I could hate them, but there it was - another gear. He was really one of the more underrated assholes of that era, and the sum of those three motherfuckers was so much greater than the parts.

[Limey]

I already hated Stockton and Malone with such a burning passion, I couldn't fathom it getting any worse. When they added Hornacek, I remember wondering, "how the fuck is this even possible?" I thought they had already reached the upper threshold of how much I could hate them, but there it was - another gear. He was really one of the more underrated assholes of that era, and the sum of those three motherfuckers was so much greater than the parts.

A perfect storm of shitbaggery.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

oh, you opened a can of worms... the worst of it was in 96, when Jordan came back and awaited the Rockets in the championship.  The Jazz take the conference finals with Stockton sinking a wide-open 3, as Malone literally carries Elie (who had been covering stockton) toward the other end of the court like a human forklift.  How that wasn't called is beyond me.  The only satisfaction I have is the knowledge that neither of those three has a championship.  

[Gizzmonic]

Don't bring up Stockton and Malone, I'm trying to remain positive today.  The Spurs got eliminated, that means San Antonio Time Warner will have to come up with new excuses for showing "High School Track and Field" during an Astros game.

[MusicMan]

The Jazz take the conference finals with Stockton sinking a wide-open 3, as Malone literally carries Elie (who had been covering stockton) toward the other end of the court like a human forklift.  How that wasn't called is beyond me.  

The play that possibly angered me more than any other in my lifetime of watching sports.

Although I think it was Clyde, not Mario.  If I'm wrong, I'm blaming the shitty coffee I got at HEB.

[Andyzipp]

The play that possibly angered me more than any other in my lifetime of watching sports.

Although I think it was Clyde, not Mario.  If I'm wrong, I'm blaming the shitty coffee I got at HEB.

I remembered it at Drexler as well.  Mario (in my imagination) would have bit Malone in the neck if he had tried that shit with him.

And that sucked as much as Eddie Johnson's 3 to win that playoff game was awesome.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

The play that possibly angered me more than any other in my lifetime of watching sports.

Although I think it was Clyde, not Mario.  If I'm wrong, I'm blaming the shitty coffee I got at HEB.

It's possible but Mario was their defensive stopper and had been guarding Stockton almost the entire series/round.  Of course, it would have been nice if Kenny "the Jet" Smith could play decent defense and not had the SF guarding a much quick player.  Where he got "The Jet", I have no idea.  And, for me, it only reinforces what Dean Smith said about Kenny Smith (He's the most gutless player he'd ever coached).  

[BudGirl]

Not for me.  Cuban is like the cubs to me..fun to laught at..but overall pretty harmless.

You must not be a Spurs fan.  Even my parents hate him and they don't usually care about shit like that.

[Ty in Tampa]

That the triumvirate of assholes on the Jazz won exactly dick is good enough for me.

[MusicMan]

And, for me, it only reinforces what Dean Smith said about Kenny Smith (He's the most gutless player he'd ever coached).  

Sir, you and I are about to get seriously crosswise.

[JackAstro]

I remembered it at Drexler as well.  Mario (in my imagination) would have bit Malone in the neck if he had tried that shit with him.

And that sucked as much as Eddie Johnson's 3 to win that playoff game was awesome.

I was watching Eddie's shot again the other day, and I had forgotten just how improbable that was. Matt Maloney looked like he had absolutely no idea what to do with the ball as time was expiring (surprise!), and sent that pass to Eddie with less than a second left on the clock. How the fuck he collected it and drained it from way back there is beyond me. He was absolutely on fire that game. I love the look of disbelief on his face after it went in...

[Andyzipp]

You know, it's easy to hate Hornaeck, Malone and Stockton.  I hate Ostertag, Foster and Bryon Russell.

Hell, I even hate Thurl Bailey, and he hadn't played for the Jazz since 1992.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Sir, you and I are about to get seriously crosswise.

Not my intention but I do need you to elaborate.  Kenny was a nice complimentary player but on any other team, there's no way he averages 20pts or whatever he was running that season. 

[Astroholic]

Matt Maloney

Matt Maloney = Morgan Ensburg

[HudsonHawk]

You know, it's easy to hate Hornaeck, Malone and Stockton.  I hate Ostertag, Foster and Bryon Russell.

Hell, I even hate Thurl Bailey, and he hadn't played for the Jazz since 1992.

Don't forget Mark Eaton.  And David Benoit.

[Astroholic]

You must not be a Spurs fan.  Even my parents hate him and they don't usually care about shit like that.

Dont get me wrong I hate Dallas as well, just not as much as the Fucking Jazz.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Blue Edwards... ok, I kind of liked that guy... but still Jazz... bastards

[Andyzipp]

Don't forget Mark Eaton.  And David Benoit.

Fuckin Mark Eaton.

He always played Hakeem well because by the time Hakeem had finished his 7th ball or post fake, Eaton was just reacting to the first.  He parlayed zero reaction time into a nice career. Fucker.

[MusicMan]

Not my intention but I do need you to elaborate.  Kenny was a nice complimentary player but on any other team, there's no way he averages 20pts or whatever he was running that season. 

But it was NOT any other team.  It was The 94-95 Rockets, the last era when I really, really gae a damn about the NBA.  For that reason, and for the reason of puncturing the balloon that is Charles Barkley('s ego) from time to time, he is beloved in mine eyes.

[MusicMan]

Matt Maloney = Morgan Ensburg

NO.  Not even close.  For one, Drayton is not still paying Morgan.

[Limey]

You know, it's easy to hate Hornaeck, Malone and Stockton.  I hate Ostertag, Foster and Bryon Russell.

Hell, I even hate Thurl Bailey, and he hadn't played for the Jazz since 1992.

I hated Ostertag - especially for the fact that he suddenly became a a good player after The Dream retired.

Speaking of which - favourite Dream memory is from Game #1 (IIRC) of the '95 playoff series vs. the Spurs.  They just handed Robinson Hakeem's MVP trophy during the pre-game ceremonies, so Hakeem took Robinson to the fucking cleaners that night.  Beautiful.

[Astroholic]

NO.  Not even close.  For one, Drayton is not still paying Morgan.

Thats true, though I don't think the Rockets are still paying Matt any longer after last year.

[HudsonHawk]

I hated Ostertag - especially for the fact that he suddenly became a a good player after The Dream retired.

Speaking of which - favourite Dream memory is from Game #1 (IIRC) of the '95 playoff series vs. the Spurs.  They just handed Robinson Hakeem's MVP trophy during the pre-game ceremonies, so Hakeem took Robinson to the fucking cleaners that night.  Beautiful.

Robinson was a fine player.  But he was no Hakeem Olajuwon, and it regularly showed.

[Astroholic]

But he was no Hakeem Olajuwon, and it regularly showed.

Dream was 1 of a kind.  UnnBEeatable.

[MusicMan]

Dream was 1 of a kind.  UnnBEeatable.

To all those that want to say Shaq is better than Dream, please watch tape of the 1995 Finals.  Thank you.

[Andyzipp]

Robinson was a fine player.  But he was no Hakeem Olajuwon, and it regularly showed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

With appearances from Tim Breaux and "Chilly" Pete Chilcut

[Gizzmonic]

Matt Maloney = Morgan Ensburg

I don't know if this is true or not, but my brother-in-law claims Matt Maloney lived in the same apartment complex as he did circa 2005, and would hustle people at the local YMCA with his brother.  If it's true, he must have spent all of his 10 year at $2 million per contract.  Or maybe he's just a dick.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

But it was NOT any other team.  It was The 94-95 Rockets, the last era when I really, really gae a damn about the NBA.  For that reason, and for the reason of puncturing the balloon that is Charles Barkley('s ego) from time to time, he is beloved in mine eyes.

For that reason alone, I do not loathe Smith.  But I had to do a double take when someone mentioned Hall of Fame status or coaching potential.  Seriously, that's as logical as saying Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell would be a great coach.

[Astroholic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

With appearances from Tim Breaux and "Chilly" Pete Chilcut

Thanks for that.  It helps take the bad taste out of my mouth.

[Astroholic]

For that reason alone, I do not loathe Smith.  But I had to do a double take when someone mentioned Hall of Fame status or coaching potential.  Seriously, that's as logical as saying Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell would be a great coach.

I love me some Mad Max.  And Peanut.

[Bench]

I don't know if this is true or not, but my brother-in-law claims Matt Maloney lived in the same apartment complex as he did circa 2005, and would hustle people at the local YMCA with his brother.  If it's true, he must have spent all of his 10 year at $2 million per contract.  Or maybe he's just a dick.

Maloney still lives in Houston.  I see him out at bars pretty often, and a buddy of mine plays poker with him fairly regularly.  By all accounts he's actually quite a nice guy.

[Limey]

Maloney still lives in Houston.  I see him out at bars pretty often, and a buddy of mine plays poker with him fairly regularly.  By all accounts he's actually quite a nice guy.

It's not his fault that the Rockets had a brainfart over his contract.  I don't fault players for taking the money that's on the table - I only fault them if they try to BS me about their motivation after the event.

[subnuclear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0

With appearances from Tim Breaux and "Chilly" Pete Chilcut

Well, that was awesome.    Why in the world did the Rockets change their uniforms?   

[MusicMan]

Well, that was awesome.    Why in the world did the Rockets change their uniforms?  

Look, we've all been through the rainbow guts, the White Sox softball pants, the San Diego Browns, but those pajamas were the worst unis ever.

[Gizzmonic]

Look, we've all been through the rainbow guts, the White Sox softball pants, the San Diego Browns, but those pajamas were the worst unis ever.

The Pajama Curse.  The new unis are okay, but nothing beats the Red and Gold.

[JackAstro]

Look, we've all been through the rainbow guts, the White Sox softball pants, the San Diego Browns, but those pajamas were the worst unis ever.

You're right - they needed the little feet on the bottom, and a button up flap on the ass. Then they would have been OK.

[HudsonHawk]

Why in the world did the Rockets change their uniforms?   

Because changing from a timeless classic to a gaudy eyesore is a Houston sports tradition.

[ybbodeus]

And, for me, it only reinforces what Dean Smith said about Kenny Smith (He's the most gutless player he'd ever coached). 

Sir, you and I are about to get seriously crosswise.

Not to mention that it was Dick Motta who said that, not Dean Smith.

[Limey]

Not to mention that it was Dick Motta who said that, not Dean Smith.

Dick Motta sounds like a venereal disease.

[Bench]

Dick Motta sounds like a venereal disease.

And I just discharged diet dr. pepper all over my monitor.  I think it will take more than penicillin to clear it up.

[chuck]

Maloney still lives in Houston.  I see him out at bars pretty often, and a buddy of mine plays poker with him fairly regularly.  By all accounts he's actually quite a nice guy.

And just because I know JackAstro will appreciate it I'll chime in that Matt is a good friend of a business associate of mine. Matt lives in the Rice Village area and is supposedly very, very conservative with his money. And, yes, he's supposed to be a very nice guy.

I love the white-boy, no-look pass to Eddie. As soon as the ball had reached the top of its arc I knew it was going in. I ran triumphantly out of Mugs Ale House and sprinted down Bedford Avenue.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Not to mention that it was Dick Motta who said that, not Dean Smith.

duly noted...  not sure why I remember it as Dean Smith.

[MusicMan]

Artest is "likely out" for tonight's game according to Morey.  Not sure whether or not he caught the swine flu from Brandon Roy.

[Andyzipp]

Artest is "likely out" for tonight's game according to Morey.  Not sure whether or not he caught the swine flu from Brandon Roy.

Wafer is out.  Where did you hear Artest is out?

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700036279&#msg5700501785

[Astroholic]

Wafer is out.  Where did you hear Artest is out?

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700036279&#msg5700501785

Damn, that makes it a bit harder.

[TheWizard]

Damn...

[MusicMan]

Wafer is out.  Where did you hear Artest is out?

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700036279&#msg5700501785

Must have misheard the radio.  I heard Ron, I guess they said Von.

[TheWizard]

Definitely going to miss that energy off the bench.  This is a huge game, IMO.  Portland is a tough arena to play in, don't want to go back.

[Astroholic]

Definitely going to miss that energy off the bench.  This is a huge game, IMO.  Portland is a tough arena to play in, don't want to go back.

If Artest plays like he did on Tues, it might be better that he missed the game as well.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

This places a lot more importance on Brooks and Lowry tonight.  They've been attacking the basket but appear somewhat out of control, which translates into no whistles. 

As for Artest, who the hell knows what he's going to do. 

[Andyzipp]

This places a lot more importance on Brooks and Lowry tonight.  They've been attacking the basket but appear somewhat out of control, which translates into no whistles. 

As for Artest, who the hell knows what he's going to do. 

Does it mean more playing time for Brent Barry?

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Does it mean more playing time for Brent Barry?

You can certainly imagine where a well placed 3 from him would boost the second teamers. 

<Sigh>

Good lord.  We've gone from a 3-1 lead to now seriously considering what Brent Barry has to offer.

For the love of Carl Herrera, please win tonight.

[chuck]

I sure do feel foolish now that I've had my hair cut into a mohawk.

[DVauthrin]

About to head out to the game.   I hope to be talking about a series clinching win later tonight.

[otterjb]

as a Spurs fan...Let's go Rockets. Close it tonight.

[Ebby Calvin]

About to head out to the game.   I hope to be talking about a series clinching win later tonight.

I'm jealous.  Have fun!

[Astros Fan in Big D]

3rd OT in chicago means i have seen about 5 seconds of the Rockets game.

I recognize that this game is a classic, history in the making, etc etc.  but a picture in picture option from another network would be nice.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It's half time and the Rockets have a 15 point lead. Would like to see the game but no one wants to win in Chicago.

[Astroholic]

It's half time and the Rockets have a 15 point lead. Would like to see the game but no one wants to win in Chicago.

And Wafer is playing.

[MusicMan]

3rd OT in chicago means i have seen about 5 seconds of the Rockets game.

I recognize that this game is a classic, history in the making, etc etc.  but a picture in picture option from another network would be nice.

It took me until 2nd qtr to remember that it was on my20pixels too.

[Ebby Calvin]

Mr. Artest: PLEASE stop jacking up threes.  Thank you.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Beat L.A.

[Savage]

Beat L.A.

Please, please, please.  I really hate the Lakers.

[DVauthrin]

I'm jealous.  Have fun!

It was awesome to see the streak end in person.   Ron Artest had an outstanding game and they played smothering D.     Lowry had an awesome first half, while Brooks took control the 2nd half.    The Wafer basket really loosened the team up in the 4th quarter.   

Couldn't believe Portland conceded with 2:39 left in the game either.        Btw, Ron Artest has become my favorite Rocket(despite his questionable decision making at times) and I really hope he signs an extension this summer to stay.    The team needs his attitude as the fire to Yao's ice.

[Bench]

        Btw, Ron Artest has become my favorite Rocket(despite his questionable decision making at times) and I really hope he signs an extension this summer to stay.   

Artest is awesome.  During the post-game, one reporter asked him about when he went into the stands near the end of the game, and how he seemed to really soak up the fan's love.

Artest replied, "well, it wasn't the first time I've gone in to the stands."  Fucking brilliant.

[Astroholic]

Btw, Ron Artest has become my favorite Rocket(despite his questionable decision making at times) and I really hope he signs an extension this summer to stay.    The team needs his attitude as the fire to Yao's ice.

If he does not change his attitude after he signs and If he is not a pain in the ass in the clubhouse (we on the outside don't know this), then maybe.  I doubt I would be willing to offer more than 2 yrs.

Scola is my Fav.

[Limey]

Artest is awesome.  During the post-game, one reporter asked him about when he went into the stands near the end of the game, and how he seemed to really soak up the fan's love.

Artest replied, "well, it wasn't the first time I've gone in to the stands."  Fucking brilliant.

I believe this season, and that moment in particular, may have completed the rehabilitation of his reputation.  That moment was classic - not quite Mario Elle's kiss of death legendary - but classic nonetheless.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Btw, Ron Artest has become my favorite Rocket(despite his questionable decision making at times) and I really hope he signs an extension this summer to stay.    The team needs his attitude as the fire to Yao's ice.

To me, the key to successfully integrating Artest into this team is keeping Battier around.  That guy is the real leader of this team.  He does the dirty work with a zeal you don't find too often.  Artest is like Rodman.  If there isn't a strong leader, he will assert his own agenda/whims upon the team's play.  From there, it just gets ugly - See Rodman in San Antonio. 

[Noe]

Last night, during a crucial part of the game, Artest went flying across the court to save a ball from going out of bounds.  He ran full tilt, batted the ball to Yao Ming and then landed in the crowd of cameramen and some fans.  Houston rushes down court, works the ball for a few second and then realized Artest has not gotten himself back into the play.  So Lowry calls timeout, perhaps because Aldeman is screaming he wants one.

With the four players walking towards the bench, Lowry turns towards the other side of the court and puts out his right palm gesturing towards Artest, who is *still* entertaining the crowd at the other end.  Lowry looks disgusted as do several other players and of course Rick Aldeman.  Brooks looks back to see what Lowry and Adelman are staring at and then turns back with a slight "oh well" look.  Then as Artest hustles back to get into the huddle for the wasted timeout, bench players start to greet him with laughter.  Artest is grinning like a Cheshire cat.

All is forgiven.

That right there is Ron Artest, managing to make a great play, all out hustle and then he relaxes and thinks it's a good idea to play around with fans and have fun *his* way.  The play did not end with his saving the ball, a truly great player picks himself up and hustles even more to help his teammates at the other end of the court.  This is what is missing from Ron's game, a consistency of what it means to lead.  Young guys like Lowry and Brooks learn from that, but they surely do not like to see a so-called leader do something great and follow up with something stupid.  They're not allowed to get away with it, but somehow Artest is.

[MusicMan]

Noe, it wasn't a crucial part of the game.  They were up 20 with 1:30 to play.  It was premature celebration, nothing more, nothing less.

[Limey]

Noe, it wasn't a crucial part of the game.  They were up 20 with 1:30 to play.  It was premature celebration, nothing more, nothing less.

FIFY

[MusicMan]

To put the Rockets' playoff draught into perspective:

Prior to last night, the last time the Rockets walked off the floor with a playoff series victory, Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell had not yet played a postseason game.

[HudsonHawk]

To put the Rockets' playoff draught into perspective:

I know you mean drought, but I couldn't help but laugh imagining Limey sitting in the Richmond Arms going "FUCK!" as his head hits the bar.

[Noe]

Noe, it wasn't a crucial part of the game.  They were up 20 with 1:30 to play.  It was premature celebration, nothing more, nothing less.

Actually, it was crucial in terms of the TrailBlazers were going to try and make one last run at it and at times they looked like they could get it down to 12, maybe 10 points.  But in that stretch when Portland made a run, Houston countered with tough defense.  In the fourth quarter, however, Houston had gone without making a basket.  When Artest stole the ball, they started rolling and kept rolling. Then in the play I mentioned, it broke the back of the Trailblazers.  However, they wanted to make the nail go straight into the casket but instead Artest was having his fun time with fans while four of his teammates were hustling down the court to try to nail this thing.

I think it's inexcusable for a guy to go pimp for fans while four other are still playing basketball... up by twenty or not.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I think it's inexcusable for a guy to go pimp for fans while four other are still playing basketball... up by twenty or not.

Try saying "that's just Ronnie being Ronnie" a million times and see if it makes his antics any easier to take.  I've heard that approach can be effective.


 

 

[DVauthrin]

Actually, it was crucial in terms of the TrailBlazers were going to try and make one last run at it and at times they looked like they could get it down to 12, maybe 10 points. 

I think it's inexcusable for a guy to go pimp for fans while four other are still playing basketball... up by twenty or not.

Normally, I'd  agree with you that it was inexcusable but not this time.  It wasn't crucial.   Portland had conceded by bringing in their bench warmers at the 2:39 mark of the 4th quarter.

It was one big party by the time Artest went into the stands with a minute and a half left.   (The BEAT L.A. chants had already begun) 

[Noe]

Normally, I'd  agree with you that it was inexcusable but not this time.  It wasn't crucial.   Portland had conceded by bringing in their bench warmers at the 2:39 mark of the 4th quarter.

It was one big party by the time Artest went into the stands with a minute and a half left.   (The BEAT L.A. chants had already begun) 

We must be thinking of something different.  The reaction of Lowry and Adelman didn't tell me that they thought it was party time.  Far from it, they were hustling down the court while one guy was partying?  That isn't seen as a problem?

[TheWizard]

Normally, I'd agree that I don't like players celebrating while a game was still going on.  But the game was wrapped up at that point.  I'm by no means an all-knowing prophet, but I watch a lot of NBA games... and if you are up 20 with 1:30 left and the other team has let the 2nd string in, its done.  It would have taken a miraculous miracle (if I'm allowed to say that) for the Blazers to come back, especially with a gimpy-legged Roy.

I honestly didn't see anything wrong with what Ron was doing.  I mean, this team hasn't been out of the first round in over a decade, and there was a huge gorilla on the squad.  The crowd was excited, its easy for an emotional guy like Ron to get caught up in that.  It had to feel good.  Nothing wrong with letting them horse around for a bit, I don't think it was showing up the Blazers in any way.

Artest is a leader on the team because he plays tough and brings good, hard defense.  That's leading by example, different from a guy like Shane.. but still important.  Its painful to watch when he takes over the offense and jacks, taking bad shots.. but he can get hot too.  Have to take the good with the bad with a guy like him.  But the bottom line is he will always play hard and bring it every night.  I think showing hard work for a full game is being a leader.  Young guys can take notice of that.  Noe, you pointed out an instance when he didn't keep hustling... but I honestly think that was an aberration in his game.  The guy is one of the hardest working players in the league, IMO. 

I can see the comparison to Rodman, if there is no leader on the team, he can drift.  But the rifts he has had with his previous teams have usually been with front office/coaching, not with his teammates.  With all accounts I've ever read or heard, his teammates always love him, because he's a guy that battles every night, and he's a cool guy to hang out with in the locker room.  Not so sure Rodman carried that same locker room weight, he was a strange cat.. in a different way from Ron.  So I think there is a difference between Artest and Rodman's team attitude, for sure.  NBA players know its part of the business to have rifts with front office and coaching.  Not saying its the norm, but if it does happen, its just part of the professional NBA game.  In this case, its pretty well known that he loves Adelman, so I don't think that's a concern.  I know no one is condemning Ron in this thread, so I'm not trying to incite an argument, I just don't think its fair to characterize him as a guy that likes to just joke around or doesn't hustle. 

[Noe]

Normally, I'd agree that I don't like players celebrating while a game was still going on.  But the game was wrapped up at that point.  I'm by no means an all-knowing prophet, but I watch a lot of NBA games... and if you are up 20 with 1:30 left and the other team has let the 2nd string in, its done.  It would have taken a miraculous miracle (if I'm allowed to say that) for the Blazers to come back, especially with a gimpy-legged Roy.

I honestly didn't see anything wrong with what Ron was doing.  I mean, this team hasn't been out of the first round in over a decade, and there was a huge gorilla on the squad.  The crowd was excited, its easy for an emotional guy like Ron to get caught up in that.  It had to feel good.  Nothing wrong with letting them horse around for a bit, I don't think it was showing up the Blazers in any way.

Artest is a leader on the team because he plays tough and brings good, hard defense.  That's leading by example, different from a guy like Shane.. but still important.  Its painful to watch when he takes over the offense and jacks, taking bad shots.. but he can get hot too.  Have to take the good with the bad with a guy like him.  But the bottom line is he will always play hard and bring it every night.  I think showing hard work for a full game is being a leader.  Young guys can take notice of that.  Noe, you pointed out an instance when he didn't keep hustling... but I honestly think that was an aberration in his game.  The guy is one of the hardest working players in the league, IMO. 

I can see the comparison to Rodman, if there is no leader on the team, he can drift.  But the rifts he has had with his previous teams have usually been with front office/coaching, not with his teammates.  With all accounts I've ever read or heard, his teammates always love him, because he's a guy that battles every night, and he's a cool guy to hang out with in the locker room.  Not so sure Rodman carried that same locker room weight, he was a strange cat.. in a different way from Ron.  So I think there is a difference between Artest and Rodman's team attitude, for sure.  NBA players know its part of the business to have rifts with front office and coaching.  Not saying its the norm, but if it does happen, its just part of the professional NBA game.  In this case, its pretty well known that he loves Adelman, so I don't think that's a concern.  I know no one is condemning Ron in this thread, so I'm not trying to incite an argument, I just don't think its fair to characterize him as a guy that likes to just joke around or doesn't hustle. 

It isn't about the Trailblazers, it's about his *teammates* still hustling.  Now, we seem to have a disconnect on when it happened, that's cool.  But when you see four guys running... the guys on your own team and one guy is dancing with people at the other end of the court, then you have a problem.  That Lowry and Adelman both shot daggers towards Artest while Ronnie (being Ronnie) ran back to join the huddle with a huge grin on his face is still a problem.  Someday, it will be at a much more critical point because if Ron does it now, he'll do it any time he darn well pleases.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Artest does this only during non-critical moments exclusively, that he's smart enough to tell the difference.  And then again, maybe not.

[DVauthrin]

Noe, you pointed out an instance when he didn't keep hustling... but I honestly think that was an aberration in his game.  The guy is one of the hardest working players in the league, IMO. 

I don't see how anyone can say he didn't hustle on that play.    It's a 20 point game with 1:30 remaining and he's chasing into the stands to save the ball to get the Rockets possession(which he did).   Most players just let that ball go out of bounds.

[TheWizard]

It isn't about the Trailblazers, it's about his *teammates* still hustling.  Now, we seem to have a disconnect on when it happened, that's cool.  But when you see four guys running... the guys on your own team and one guy is dancing with people at the other end of the court, then you have a problem.  That Lowry and Adelman both shot daggers towards Artest while Ronnie (being Ronnie) ran back to join the huddle with a huge grin on his face is still a problem.  Someday, it will be at a much more critical point because if Ron does it now, he'll do it any time he darn well pleases.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Artest does this only during non-critical moments, that he's smart enough to tell the difference.  And then again, maybe not.

I mean, I understand where you are coming from.  If Ron weren't hustling during an important junction of the game, I'd be pissed as a fan, and I'm sure his teammates and Adelman would also not be happy.  But I just don't think he'd do that.  This was an exception, IMO, not only because of the moment, but also because hustle, hard-nosed play, and grit is the focal point of Ron's game.  That's how he's gotten the reputation as one of the best two-way players in the game.  And I don't think its fair to say he'll do it at an important part in some future game because he did it last night.. when his team was wrapping up its first 1st round advance in over a decade at home with under 2:00 left, up by 20.  But I could also be wrong.

[Noe]

I don't see how anyone can say he didn't hustle on that play.    It's a 20 point game with 1:30 remaining and he's chasing into the stands to save the ball to get the Rockets possession(which he did).   Most players just let that ball go out of bounds.

So you think that while four guys run down court to set up a play but realize one guy on the team is doing a line dance with fans is okay?  Just because he hustled to start the play?  I don't.  There is no such thing of "I gave my hustle quota already on the play, now I can take the time off if I want to".  Folks, this is Ron Artest you're talking about, a guy who processes such things differently than anyone else.  Send the message loud and clear, don't stop to chat with fans at *ANY* point of the game for *ANY* reason.  It is just not acceptable unless you want to alienate all other 11 members of your team.  Team being he operative word here.

[Noe]

I mean, I understand where you are coming from.  If Ron weren't hustling during an important junction of the game, I'd be pissed as a fan, and I'm sure his teammates and Adelman would also not be happy.  But I just don't think he'd do that.  This was an exception, IMO, not only because of the moment, but also because hustle, hard-nosed play, and grit is the focal point of Ron's game.  That's how he's gotten the reputation as one of the best two-way players in the game.  And I don't think its fair to say he'll do it at an important part in some future game because he did it last night.. when his team was wrapping up its first 1st round advance in over a decade at home with under 2:00 left, up by 20.  But I could also be wrong.

If you accepted now you need to accept it at any time.  How can you possibly tell a player that it is okay if we're up by 20 to dance in the stands while four other guys are still running hard?  How?  You send the wrong message and Adelman did not accept it.  He called timeout to make sure his team and Ron Artest knew that there would be a time to dance but right now, it was not it.  20 point lead be damned.

[DVauthrin]

We must be thinking of something different.  The reaction of Lowry and Adelman didn't tell me that they thought it was party time.  Far from it, they were hustling down the court while one guy was partying?  That isn't seen as a problem?

I couldn't see their reaction from my seat to be honest so I'll take your word for it.   If it had been done with the game hanging in the balance, I'd have been pissed as well, but McMillan had conceded the game about a minute before by bringing in the end of his bench.    

Also, Artest is absolutely a leader on this team.    Watch any game and you will see him pull Wafer, Brooks or any other young player aside and talk to them in timeouts.   He also has had something like 2 technical fouls all year.  One of which was a reputation tech at the beginning of the year and the other was a double tech in the game he chirped at Kobe.  

[Noe]

I couldn't see their reaction from my seat to be honest so I'll take your word for it.   If it had been done with the game hanging in the balance, I'd have been pissed as well, but McMillan had conceded the game about a minute before by bringing in the end of his bench.

 

It was clear on the television set that Lowry was disgusted and Adelman was pissed.  But then everyone went out and laughed it up with Artest to soothe the moment.  And this is not about the Trailblazers, this is about the Rockets.  

Also, Artest is absolutely a leader on this team.    Watch any game and you will see him pull Wafer, Brooks or any other young aside and talk to them in timeouts.   He also has had something like 2 technical fouls all year.  One of which was a reputation tech at the beginning of the year and the other was a double tech in the game he chirped at Kobe.  

So if Wafer or Brooks one day decided to pull the exact same stunt for the exact same situation, Artest would have no way to reprimand them... correct?  See how that then becomes a problem in terms of leadership.  You lead by example just as much as you do by what you say.  Some will tell you that actions speak louder than words.

[TheWizard]

If you accepted now you need to accept it at any time.  How can you possibly tell a player that it is okay if we're up by 20 to dance in the stands while four other guys are still running hard?  How?  You send the wrong message and Adelman did not accept it.  He called timeout to make sure his team and Ron Artest knew that there would be a time to dance but right now, it was not it.  20 point lead be damned.

Well, I'd have to see Ron dancing with fans at a critical time in the game to believe that it would ever happen first.  First and foremost, I just don't think that it would ever happen.  And I just think you are using some hyperbole, Ron wasn't shaking maracas in the stands, grabbing women's hips, while his teammates were streaking down the court. 

I'm a big NBA fan, and I've liked Ron since his early days with the Bulls, so I'm admittedly biased.  But the guy is such a hard-worker, and he fights for his teammates.  It was a one-time thing.  Not fair to characterize him as a loose cannon ON the court.  Off the court, he's crazy.. but on the court, he's a warrior.  He brings it every night.

[DVauthrin]

So you think that while four guys run down court to set up a play but realize one guy on the team is doing a line dance with fans is okay?  Just because he hustled to start the play?  I don't.

I never said I think it's ok.  I was pointing out attempting to even save that ball is a form of hustling.  

My thoughts on the matter are he shouldn't have done it, but I don't see it as something worthy of getting worked up over considering the time and score remaining.   If it had been a close game and he pulled that stunt, I'd have been extremely pissed off.  

[TheWizard]

I never said I think it's ok.  I was pointing out attempting to even save that ball is a form of hustling.  

My thoughts on the matter are he shouldn't have done it, but I don't see it as something worthy of getting worked up over considering the time and score remaining.   If it had been a close game and he pulled that stunt, I'd have been extremely pissed off.  

That sums it up for me too.  Not worth getting worked up over for what you said, and also because of what his usual character is.  He's not a lazy player.

[Noe]

Well, I'd have to see Ron dancing with fans at a critical time in the game to believe that it would ever happen first.  First and foremost, I just don't think that it would ever happen.  And I just think you are using some hyperbole, Ron wasn't shaking maracas in the stands, grabbing women's hips, while his teammates were streaking down the court. 

I'm a big NBA fan, and I've liked Ron since his early days with the Bulls, so I'm admittedly biased.  But the guy is such a hard-worker, and he fights for his teammates.  It was a one-time thing.  Not fair to characterize him as a loose cannon ON the court.  Off the court, he's crazy.. but on the court, he's a warrior.  He brings it every night.

He did what he wanted to do.  Period.

One time is absolutely too many times given that.  If four guys are running and you take yourself out of the game then it is a problem.  If he is hurt, then fine, call timeout and run to his aide because he did an absolutely fantastic job to save the ball.  But since he ran back after the timeout and he was grinning, what you honestly think went through the mind of 11 guys on the team?  "Oh, yeah, it's okay if Ron doesn't want to hustle for the entire play... but I can't do that else my butt is on the bench".  I don't see how this is allowed within the context of team.  Maybe I just don't understand team basketball well enough to say that this is wrong.

That very well could be the case.  But trust me if I were an NBA player on said team and one guy gets to lay down with cameramen and fans, I'm pissed... even if we're up by twenty and it's 1:30 seconds to go.

[Noe]

I never said I think it's ok.  I was pointing out attempting to even save that ball is a form of hustling.  

My thoughts on the matter are he shouldn't have done it, but I don't see it as something worthy of getting worked up over considering the time and score remaining.   If it had been a close game and he pulled that stunt, I'd have been extremely pissed off.  

Okay, just to be straight on this.

It's not okay.

BUT... 20 points up, 1:30 to go, other team is giving up and heck his own team is still running hard but hey, no harm, no foul makes it bearable (but not okay).  They won by goodness, so let's party, look the other way.

Hmmmmm... fine, I don't get it, so mark me down as not understanding this logic and let's move on.

[TheWizard]

He did what he wanted to do.  Period.

One time is absolutely too many times given that.  If four guys are running and you take yourself out of the game then it is a problem.  If he is hurt, then fine, call timeout and run to his aide because he did an absolutely fantastic job to save the ball.  But since he ran back after the timeout and he was grinning, what you honestly think went through the mind of 11 guys on the team?  "Oh, yeah, it's okay if Ron doesn't want to hustle for the entire play... but I can't do that else my butt is on the bench".  I don't see how this is allowed within the context of team.  Maybe I just don't understand team basketball well enough to say that this is wrong.

That very well could be the case.  But trust me if I were an NBA player on said team and one guy gets to lay down with cameramen and fans, I'm pissed... even if we're up by twenty and it's 1:30 seconds to go.

We just disagree I guess.  Because no, I can honestly say I think there's no way the other 11 guys thought that.  They know Ron well enough and see how he plays night in, night out to know that's not his usual character.  Its not going to make every other player want to horse around because Ron did it.  Plus, the fact this is Artest we are talking about.  The defining characteristic of his game is playing hard.

It was a one time thing.  The game was essentially over.  He's demonstrated, over a much larger sample size, that is not how he acts.  Its not fair to say if he does it once when the game is over (much less a playoff game with all the implications of moving past the 1st round for this team), he's going to do it again.  He's been in the league a long time.  He's demonstrated he is not lazy.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Hmmmmm... fine, I don't get it, so mark me down as not understanding this logic and let's move on.

Beat L.A.?  Beat L.A.?

(Holding Rockets pom-poms, jostling them hopefully like a kid who wants his parents to stop fighting)

[Bench]

We just disagree I guess.  Because no, I can honestly say I think there's no way the other 11 guys thought that.  They know Ron well enough and see how he plays night in, night out to know that's not his usual character.  Its not going to make every other player want to horse around because Ron did it.  Plus, the fact this is Artest we are talking about.  The defining characteristic of his game is playing hard.

It was a one time thing.  The game was essentially over.  He's demonstrated, over a much larger sample size, that is not how he acts.  Its not fair to say if he does it once when the game is over (much less a playoff game with all the implications of moving past the 1st round for this team), he's going to do it again.  He's been in the league a long time.  He's demonstrated he is not lazy.

I

It seemed to me to be a harmless, feel-good moment.

[DVauthrin]

Okay, just to be straight on this.

It's not okay.

BUT... 20 points up, 1:30 to go, other team is giving up and heck his own team is still running hard but hey, no harm, no foul makes it bearable (but not okay).  They won by goodness, so let's party, look the other way.

Hmmmmm... fine, I don't get it, so mark me down as not understanding this logic and let's move on.

Fair enough.  

[otterjb]

Here's part of the post-game press conference with Artest and Yao. Pretty good stuff there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZtxQkay0ac

[chuck]

It seemed to me to be a harmless, feel-good moment.

I thought it was totally cathartic and symbolic in a positive way. I hope he gets to do it again under identical circumstances six games from now.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I thought it was totally cathartic and symbolic in a positive way. I hope he gets to do it again under identical circumstances six games from now.

Why would he do that in game 2 of the Western Conference Finals?

[Ebby Calvin]

It seemed to me to be a harmless, feel-good moment.

Completely agree.  I thought it was funny.  I'd much rather a player celebrate with fans (albeit prematurely and by accident) than snarl and pound his own chest.
Yes, the proper thing is to keep going until the final buzzer, but given the circumstances it was harmless, IMO.  Now if he continues this behavior (and with RonRon, you never know) then I'll have a problem with it.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I think Artest is a very talented and gifted basketball player but his basketball I.Q. is moronic. I hope he can maintain the needed amount of discipline and professionalism and keep the inevitable distractions to a minimum. When he does that, he maximizes his value to the Rockets. I'm not convinced he can do that. He seems to be one of those guys with poor impulse control and on the verge of snapping at any given moment. For the most part, he has shown improvement over time and hasn't had any transgressions for a while, maybe it's maturity or maybe he's adapted and adjusted his behavior enough to get by. If it's the former, that is great. If it's the latter, he's just suppressing the beast while the time-bomb is ticking.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I think Artest is a very talented and gifted basketball player but his basketball I.Q. is moronic.

I'm glad he's on this team.  Without him I think they're seeding would have been much lower, and they don't get out of the 1st round.

But as for his b-ball IQ, I couldn't agree more.  Moronic may actually be generous since it implies some level of predictability. 

I don't trust him and probably never will.  I just hope the good/great outweighs the hideously stupid.   

[TheWizard]

The last time the Rockets were out of the 1st round, I was 13 years old.  I'm ready for tonight.

[hostros7]

The last time the Rockets were out of the 1st round, I was 13 years old.  I'm ready for tonight.

Agreed.  However, these 9:30 tips are killer.  My week will be a coffee and beer swirl.  Rockets need to throw a couple serious punches in game 1 to let LA know it's on. 

[Ebby Calvin]

However, these 9:30 tips are killer.

No kidding.  Even Game 3 in Houston tips at 8:30.  Way too late.

[MRaup]

No kidding.  Even Game 3 in Houston tips at 8:30.  Way too late.

Don't worry gramps, you can read all about it while getting the Early Bird at Lubys the next day in your Sans-a-belt slacks and black socks with sandals!

[Ebby Calvin]

Don't worry gramps, you can read all about it while getting the Early Bird at Lubys the next day in your Sans-a-belt slacks and black socks with sandals!

Hey now.  Some of us have no kids and are barely 31 years old and work out of the house and, you know, have responsibilities and stuff.  My time is precious.

[Astroholic]

Hey now.  Some of us have no kids and are barely 31 years old and work out of the house and, you know, have responsibilities and stuff.  My time is precious.

And some of us are 42 yrs old, have three young kids and work 1 hr from the house.....Priorities.

[JackAstro]

Hey now.  Some of us have no kids and are barely 31 years old and work out of the house and, you know, have responsibilities and stuff.  My time is precious.

I'm just going to assume that "work out of the house" is a euphemism for "sit at the computer in mom's basement in my underwear".

[MRaup]

And some of us are 42 yrs old, have three young kids and work 1 hr from the house.....Priorities.

So is it just going to hit me one day that 10:00pm is late, or were you guys born lame?

[Andyzipp]

So is it just going to hit me one day that 10:00pm is late, or were you guys born lame?

In all but the rarest of instances, once you knock up some chick AND have to literally live with the results, it hits you.

It hits you hard.

[JimR]

Hey now.  Some of us have no kids and are barely 31 years old and work out of the house and, you know, have responsibilities and stuff.  My time is precious.

glad you spared some of that precious time for frivolity at S. Flowers.

[JimR]

So is it just going to hit me one day that 10:00pm is late, or were you guys born lame?

assuming one day even you will be married and have kids, yes, you will learn that.

[MusicMan]

So is it just going to hit me one day that 10:00pm is late, or were you guys born lame?

I'll tell you after my nap.

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm just going to assume that "work out of the house" is a euphemism for "sit at the computer in mom's basement in my underwear".

Well, yeah.  I post on SnS don't I?

[Astroholic]

So is it just going to hit me one day that 10:00pm is late, or were you guys born lame?

Nope quite the opposite for me..I am going to be watching the game.  The morning might be a bitch but you only get so many chances in life.

And it won't be 10 pm, it will be 12:30.  I leave the house at 6am.

[TheWizard]

I'm just going to assume that "work out of the house" is a euphemism for "sit at the computer in mom's basement in my underwear".

Playing Civ IV, with an X-Files "I Want to Believe" poster hanging and cartoons on in the background.  Wait a minute.. that resembles my life, excluding the basement part. 

[Limey]

This TNT colour guy is making me miss Bill and Clyde in the worst way.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Doug Collins and the other guy is Kevin Harlan

[austro]

Vujacic (sp?) is going to be a marked man before this series is over.

[hostros7]

Fuckin' HUGE

/Brad Lidge

[otterjb]

That was a great game to see. Fuck the Lakers.

[TheWizard]

That was a great game to see. Fuck the Lakers.

Ron's hair was something to see.

And so was the stick job Ron and Shane did to Kobe.  He looked visibly irritated.  32 points on 31 shots, and only 3 FTs - the Rockets will take that any day, any night. 

Also nice to see Yao gut it out.  The scene where Keith Jones was trying to get Yao to walk down the tunnel towards the locker room, and Yao refused and pointed back at the court really made me smile.  Hopefully, its nothing serious.  Looks like he just banged knees.

[Limey]

Ron's hair was something to see.

And so was the stick job Ron and Shane did to Kobe.  He looked visibly irritated.  32 points on 31 shots, and only 3 FTs - the Rockets will take that any day, any night. 

Also nice to see Yao gut it out.  The scene where Keith Jones was trying to get Yao to walk down the tunnel towards the locker room, and Yao refused and pointed back at the court really made me smile.  Hopefully, its nothing serious.  Looks like he just banged knees.

This morning's recap says exactly that, just a banged knee.

[hostros7]

Great win last night, and there were several moments of the game that captured why this team is so great to pull for (Battier and Yao's toughness, Brooks slashing to the basket, team defense, etc.).   Rockets will probably have to win 2 in LA to pull of the upset, so it's nice to win one early.

[Astroholic]

Great win last night, and there were several moments of the game that captured why this team is so great to pull for (Battier and Yao's toughness, Brooks slashing to the basket, team defense, etc.).   Rockets will probably have to win 2 in LA to pull of the upset, so it's nice to win one early.

Kobe is a punk ass bitch.  The elbow to Shanes head, after Shane stoled the ball and fell to the floor was bush league.  Rockets did not play that well on offense(turnovers, rebounds, etc.) and still won; looks good for the series.

[hostros7]

The Lakers didn't play their best game but neither did the Rockets by any means.  It should be a battle.  Kobe is a great basketball player...one of the most talented offensive players to ever play the game.  But the guy is seriously one of the most deplorable MFers to ever play the game as well.  He is like Teflon A-Rod in my book.   

[MikeyBoy]

Kobe is a punk ass bitch.  The elbow to Shanes head, after Shane stoled the ball and fell to the floor was bush league. 

Punk ass bitch is right. Shit like that is why kobe shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan and Lebron.

Cheap Shot

[MusicMan]

Vujacic (sp?) is going to be a marked man before this series is over.

Look, I can understand that Shane doesn't get the call when Kobe is cheap shotting him.  But Vujacic draws copious amounts of blood, and there's not even a PF?!?!

NBA... where amazing refereeing happens.

[Astroholic]

Look, I can understand that Shane doesn't get the call when Kobe is cheap shotting him.  But Vujacic draws copious amounts of blood, and there's not even a PF?!?!

NBA... where amazing refereeing happens.

I don't think a call was a given on the play, it was a scramble for the ball.  It was the cheap shot I had an issue with.  When Shane took the hit to the face, it appeared inadvertent to me, though a foul could have been called.

[austro]

I don't think a call was a given on the play, it was a scramble for the ball.  It was the cheap shot I had an issue with.  When Shane took the hit to the face, it appeared inadvertent to me, though a foul could have been called.

When the play started, Vujacic was just trying to knock the ball loose, but he certainly didn't care too much that his follow-through was going to hit Battier. I could see calling a foul there because of the outcome, but I can see not calling one, too: it really was just part of contact that happens during the run of play. However, add that in with Vujacic's other antics, and you end up with a guy that people are going to keep track of.

Kobe's move was totally bush. First he stepped on Battier's hand, then he elbowed him, then he did the alpha-dog straddle-the-head bullshit. And then he was angry that a foul was called on him. His sense of entitlement is outrageous. Battier did a tremendous job just walking away, even managing to suppress the smirk that must have been welling up inside.

[Gizzmonic]

In honor of the great Joey Trum, I give you...LakerFan!  I don't have Joey's knack for this, but I thought I'd give it a try.

Gwen, a LakerFan in her mid-twenties, is zooming down the LA Freeway in a red Honda Fit, putting on her makeup, and yammering on a cell phone to her friend.

So I was like, guess where I'm going tonight?
And Stacy was like, I dunno.
So I go, "The Lakers game!  AAAHH!!"
And she was like, "Who did you blow for those tickets?"
Which is total bullshit.  I really like this guy, we met at the spray-tan place.  His name is...Bryce, and he's totally cute!
Yeah, it's like brown, I think, with frosted tips.  That is so hot!  And he's like, been an assistant on like, a lot of shows...(squeals).
(Leaning out window)
Get out of my way you fucking Mexican!  I swear, people cannot drive in this city!
Anyway, so we went out to Haven and he was feeding me Buttery Nipples and he was like, guess what, I got tickets to the Lakers game Tuesday.
And I was like, Oh-My-God, I'm totally down with Kobe, you have to take me with you!
And so he goes, you wanna go, okay, do something for me.
And I was like what, and he was like...I'll text you if the bathroom is clear.
It was so naughty!  Anyway he looked totally clean.
Oh I dunno, my usual hottie outfit...yeah, the red dress, red f-me pumps...
The other team wears red?  Oh who cares, no one will be rooting for them, besides, red's my color. 
I hope we sit next to someone famous, not like that stupid Diane Kanyon or whatever, she's fake.  Kobe's so hot, yeah, I'm gonna get my white wine on, and they're gonna win a championship just like last year!
Yeah I'll be texting and waving at you baby, wish me luck with Brad!

[JackAstro]

zooming down the LA Freeway

You tripped up here.

[Bench]

I hope we sit next to someone famous, not like that stupid Diane Kanyon or whatever, she's fake. 

Speaking of which, I can't remember the last Lakers game I watched where at no point did the camera dwell on Jack.  Did I just miss it?  Did he die and I missed that?  What did I miss?

[Ebby Calvin]

Speaking of which, I can't remember the last Lakers game I watched where at no point did the camera dwell on Jack.  Did I just miss it?  Did he die and I missed that?  What did I miss?

I saw him in the crowd, but you're right, no extended camera shots on him.  Maybe it's some Weekend at Bernie's prank and we're not in on it.

[MRaup]

I saw him in the crowd, but you're right, no extended camera shots on him.  Maybe it's some Weekend at Bernie's prank and we're not in on it.

I'm just glad to hear you made it through the whole game without falling asleep, grampy.

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm just glad to hear you made it through the whole game without falling asleep, grampy.

Actually I fell asleep with 8 minutes left in the game.

[TheWizard]

I agree that we didn't play our best basketball on offense, but neither did they.  Kobe, on any given night, could make a lot of those shots he missed.  It should make for a good series.  We match up well with them.  We have good perimeter defenders, and Pau isn't going to dominate the paint with Yao around.

[MRaup]

Actually I fell asleep with 8 minutes left in the game.

That... made me laugh.

[Astroholic]

It should make for a good series.  We match up well with them.  We have good perimeter defenders, and Pau isn't going to dominate the paint with Yao around.

I agree.  The series can be won by either team at this point.  Homecourt is in Rockets favor, but it will be hard to beat the Lakers two games in a row in Houston. 

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm a fairweather NBA fan.  I recognize this, in fact, I embrace it.  Nothing against the sport at all, I just fell out of love with the NBA shortly after the Rockets' 2nd championship.  It just wasn't fun to watch (NCAA bball is much better imo).  I didn't watch a single regular season NBA game this year (nor have I for years), but I've tried to watch as many Rockets playoff games as I can.  I'm on the bandwagon.  Once they're out of the playoffs, I'll hop off.  That's how I roll.

So I'm pretty excited about the Lakers series (yes, I know, it's only one game), and I decided to head over to clutchfans.com because I'd heard it was the best Rockets fansite on the interwebs.  Deere Lowered did I get some bad information.  You know how SnS will make it excruciating to talk Astros baseball with anyone else?  It also makes any other fansite (baseball or other) fucking unbearable.

First!

[Andyzipp]

Clutchfans is good.  The forum has gotten out of hand.  And by "has" I mean since 1997 or so.

The content is great, however.

[Andyzipp]

Awesome...just found out that Joey Crawford is one of the refs tonight. 

No point in watching the game, so I should be well rested for tomorrow.

[Limey]

Awesome...just found out that Joey Crawford is one of the refs tonight. 

No point in watching the game, so I should be well rested for tomorrow.

Joey Crawford = guaranteed win for the home team.  This is how the NBA rolls.

[MusicMan]

Awesome...just found out that Joey Crawford is one of the refs tonight. 

This is hilarious in that someone emailed/texted/Twittered/whatever into 1560 yesterday (John and Lance, IIRC) saying that the game 1 win guaranteed the assignment of either Dick Bavetta or Joey Crawford to Game 2.

No point in watching the game, so I should be well rested for tomorrow.

Thank goodness.  I was wiped out yesterday.

[MusicMan]

Clutchfans is good.  The forum has gotten out of hand.  And by "has" I mean since 1997 or so.

I would pinpoint it exactly to the day that Yao was drafted.

The content is great, however.

Content?  They have a front page?

[Andyzipp]

I would pinpoint it exactly to the day that Yao was drafted.

Content?  They have a front page?

They do.  I check it every April 1st.

[Ebby Calvin]

Clutchfans is good.  The forum has gotten out of hand.  And by "has" I mean since 1997 or so.

The content is great, however.

Exactly what I meant.  The content, game analysis, etc is very good.  But the forums are unreadable.  They need Coach to log in and clean house.

[Greg M]

I went to the Nuggets/Mavs game last night.  Thing of beauty to see Dallas go down 2-0.  After the game, everybody was chanting "Fuck LAaaaaa!".  Last I checked, the Rockets were leading the series.  Huge game tonight.  Shame that I have a softball game in the middle of it. 

[hostros7]

I would pinpoint it exactly to the day that Yao was drafted.

It started going downhill even when Stevie was drafted.

[Ebby Calvin]

Joey Crawford
Yeah, that foul was on Billups.

[TheWizard]

Clutchfans forums are nearing the point of being unbearable to navigate through.  Lots of e-chest beating and insults thrown around. 

[Gizzmonic]

I went to the Nuggets/Mavs game last night.  Thing of beauty to see Dallas go down 2-0.  After the game, everybody was chanting "Fuck LAaaaaa!".  Last I checked, the Rockets were leading the series.  Huge game tonight.  Shame that I have a softball game in the middle of it. 

To be fair, who doesn't feel like chanting "Fuck LA" every now and again?

[TheWizard]

I'll be honest, Kobe looked so visibly irritated at the end of game 1, and he's probably been hearing about the great job Shane and Ron did... I think he's going to come out firing.  Just hope that those shots come up empty again.

I watched some SC yesterday.  According to ESPN, basically the Lakers lost, the Rockets did not beat them.

[EasTexAstro]

Joey Crawford
Yeah, that foul was on Billups.

Gives the name "Joey" a bad name....


...and "Crawford"...


...and "Barzilla", "LoE", or "Filo"....

[hostros7]

I'll be honest, Kobe looked so visibly irritated at the end of game 1, and he's probably been hearing about the great job Shane and Ron did... I think he's going to come out firing.  Just hope that those shots come up empty again.

I watched some SC yesterday.  According to ESPN, basically the Lakers lost, the Rockets did not beat them.

I didn't hear what was said, but I did see the ESPN sidebar "agenda."  It read: "Dallas v. Denver" then "Atlanta v. Cleveland" and then "Laker's off-day" then something about Favre.  They stopped providing decent, non coastal biased coverage years ago, unless pertaining to Favre.

[chuck]

Favre.

I am BORED TO DEATH of Brett Favre. Go. The fuck. Away.

[austro]

I am BORED TO DEATH of Brett Favre. Go. The fuck. Away.

I hope the Vikings hire him and he then fails completely and utterly. That is the only way this story will finally die.

[JimR]

I am BORED TO DEATH of Brett Favre. Go. The fuck. Away.

indeed. eloquent, sir.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I got elbowed in the head and had a bloody eyebrow in my first game. The refs didn't call a foul on either. Joey Crwaford is calling game 2. FML.

[MusicMan]

A crooked ref took away my last trip to the NBA finals.  My star player is ridiculed by the French as a quitter.  And now the NBA has put their most incompetent ref on my game.  FML.

[austro]

A crooked ref took away my last trip to the NBA finals.  My star player is ridiculed by the French as a quitter.  And now the NBA has put their most incompetent ref on my game.  FML.

Joey Crawford isn't incompetent: he's very competent at his job. It's just that his job has nothing to do with fair officiating. He is David Stern's Mr. Wolf.

[JimR]

A crooked ref took away my last trip to the NBA finals.  My star player is ridiculed by the French as a quitter.  And now the NBA has put their most incompetent ref on my game.  FML.

i watch the NBA. FML.

[MusicMan]

If you're a "glass half full" kind of person, Kobe is going to render Crawford's presence completely irrelevant.  13 points in the first 8 minutes.

[austro]

If you're a "glass half full" kind of person, Kobe is going to render Crawford's presence completely irrelevant.  13 points in the first 8 minutes.

I doubt that the Lakers will shoot 80% for the entire game. If the Rockets can stay within six or eight at the end of the quarter, they may be ok.  Of course, Yao just picked up his second foul, so all bets may be off.

It wouldn't bother me if Stern wasted his Crawford bullet in a Laker blowout.

I really like Scola.

[MusicMan]

End 1, 39-25.

I won't be staying up.

[austro]

End 1, 39-25.

I won't be staying up.

They got it back to 8, and then got blitzed again. There's no way I'm going to stay up just to watch Kobe and his clenched-jaw, look-at-me strutting.

[Lurch]

Wow!

[MusicMan]

Holy crap.  I continue to underestimate this team.

[chuck]

No Yao, the rest of the team does not give a fuck.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Did that simply by defending and executing the offense.    Without Yao.

Huge quarter.

[Savage]

If nothing else, I like that Scola is getting under their skin. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Are you fucking kidding me?  Fisher is a pussy.  Should be fined.

[astrojo]

THAT was ridiculous!  (fisher flagrant on scola)

[astrojo]

ejected!

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Automatic suspension in addition to the ejection.

Please respond with tough, smart play in the 4th and stick it to those bastards.

[Savage]

Automatic suspension in addition to the ejection.

Please respond with tough, smart play in the 4th and stick it to those bastards.

And instead they respond with terrible ball handling.

[chuck]

I really can't believe that they did the right thing in ejecting that motherfucker. That was unreal.

[astrojo]

von wafer?

[Savage]

I really can't stand Luke Walton.  As a woman, I'm embarrassed that he apparently gets a ton of tail.

[chuck]

von wafer?

Got sent home for arguing with Adelman.

I'm proud of Ronny for not walking over to Kobe and knocking his fucking teeth in.

[Savage]

Got sent home for arguing with Adelman.

I'm proud of Ronny for not walking over to Kobe and knocking his fucking teeth in.

Kobe deserves a suspension for that shit.  He won't get one, but he deserves it.

[chuck]

I really can't stand Luke Walton.  As a woman, I'm embarrassed that he apparently gets a ton of tail.

He's got a Grateful Dead tattoo. That means he's and idiot AND he's got low self esteem.

[MusicMan]

can someone explain why ron gets ejected for 1 technical, but the rapist does not?

[Savage]

can someone explain why ron gets ejected for 1 technical, but the rapist does not?

I believe the proper term is "anal rapist".

[MusicMan]

was crawford the tool that ejected ron?

[Savage]

was crawford the tool that ejected ron?

I think so.  Kobe doesn't even deny that he threw the elbow.  What a dick.

[MusicMan]

of course he is.  and he took advantage of ron's temper.

artest has to keep his head enough to realize that he's the "bad guy", not the rapist.

[MRaup]

of course he is.  and he took advantage of ron's temper.

artest has to keep his head enough to realize that he's the "bad guy", not the rapist.

Artest throat-slashed, which is a huge no-no in pro sports these days.

That being said, Jerry Crawford is a fucking joke of a human being. How he's allowed to not only be employed by the NBA but also to officiate meaningful games is completely beyond me. There has never been a more "look at me, I'm the fucking game, not the players" official in the history of professional sports.

Fuck you Joey, and I'm not even a Rockets fan.

[Limey]

Joey did his job.  Only 1 of the Rockets' starters with less than 3 fouls, only 2 of the Lakers' starters with more than 2 (both with 3 only - one of whom was Fisher).  It was ticky-tack at one end and on the other, they needed 10 minutes of video review to call Fischer's WWF move.  Has Gasol ever set a stationary pick?

[Andyzipp]

The Rockets lost, and there aren't any excuses.

But does any one still believe that Joey Crawford has any mission in life but to be the NBA's equalizer?  Yao picks up 3 fouls in 10 first half minutes, one of which happened under the basket that Crawford called from mid-court.  4/5 Rockets' starters with 3 or more fouls.   For good measure, Hayes and Wafer also get 3+ personals. Crawford throws out Artest. 

He's, I guess, not an embarassment, because he's doing what the NBA asks him to do, but it's just a farce.

[MusicMan]

Artest wasn't making a throat-slashing gesture, he was demonstrating how Kobe elbowed him.

Shit like last night reminds me why I gave up the NBA.  In may not be wrestling, but the league certainly knows how to obtain "favorable" results.

[kevwun]

You know things are fucked when Vegas lines move when the refs for the game are announced.  Why do we even watch this anymore?  How ridiculous is it that fans can correctly call ref assignments and specific player foul trouble before a game?

[roadrunner]

Artest wasn't making a throat-slashing gesture, he was demonstrating how Kobe elbowed him.

Shit like last night reminds me why I gave up the NBA.  In may not be wrestling, but the league certainly knows how to obtain "favorable" results.

Agreed.  Officiating just has too much of an impact.  I wasn't surprised when the story came out about Donahue a few years ago, and stuff like last night doesn't surprise me, either. 

[Gizzmonic]

I turned off the game after the 3rd, I could smell the way the wind was blowing.  Don't sit downwind from Joey Crawford!

[hostros7]

Has Gasol ever set a stationary pick?

One end of the floor: Scola adjusts hip while in possession of ball as Rockets guard (brooks?) tries to run his man off Scola, offensive foul.
Other end of the floor: Gasol sets a pick for 3 seconds while moving 7 feet as Brooks tries to get past him.  No call.  Three in the corner. 

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Frankly the two non-Joey refs were driving me more crazy than he was, particularly in the 3rd quarter.

With that out of the way, at the start of the 4th they tightened up the game, called 4 early fouls on the Lakers setting the stage for FTs early in the quarter.  The Rockets responded with two horrible possessions that led to Laker breaks/points.  The worst was Artest's second whirling dervish drive.  Into the low block.  Where Yao was still posted.  Just dumb basketball. 

Overall still impressed with the Rockets performance.  Orlando looked pretty satisfied with their game 1 victory, and got blasted in game 2.  The Rockets took the Lakers best shot in the first quarter, and easily could have folded.  Instead they calmly caught up and tied the game without Yao. 

 

[otterjb]

The refs definitely had the table slanted towards the Lakers a bit, the Rockets are damn resilient though. It's so easy to root for them and the opposite for the Lakers. It's like a talented Bad News Bears versus the Yankees. All things equal with the refs, a physical half-court game favors Houston with home-court, no question.

Fisher will get a suspension. He looked for him, then just went at him as hard as he could with his shoulder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCy4-sS3gM
Postgame on tnt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkLGZMlUUM
Then, a WTF story from Ron. The leg of a table?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCLwlLAgXc

[Gizzmonic]

Did anyone notice the TNT announcer fawning over Fischer's "toughness" after he hit Scola, I thought that was a little out of line.

[Limey]

One end of the floor: Scola adjusts hip while in possession of ball as Rockets guard (brooks?) tries to run his man off Scola, offensive foul.
Other end of the floor: Gasol sets a pick for 3 seconds while moving 7 feet as Brooks tries to get past him.  No call.  Three in the corner. 

Exactly.  While Fischer and Artest were major flashpoints, there was an extraordinarily clear effort being made on the part of the refs to let the Lakers do anything and the Rockets nothing.  Pathetic.

[otterjb]

Did anyone notice the TNT announcer fawning over Fischer's "toughness" after he hit Scola, I thought that was a little out of line.

Fisher was anything but tough there. A punk, for sure.

[Noe]

I wanted to catch up on all of this in the morning, so I made the mistake of going too far and listening to Colin Cowherd.  I should've stopped with the local guys who did a fair job of pointing out the nuances of all the extra curricular activities.  Cowherd on the other hand is absolutely clueless as they come.  He is a shill, a guy who wants so badly to be a radio personality, he'll say anything and everything just to get people to notice him.  So he will say the strangest, most idiotic things... just so you'll tune in again to listen. I guess I shouldn't be shocked, but when you're just wanting to know the circumstances, the last place I would recommend finding the information is places like a National Shill radio show.

Where Cowherd absolutely went insane this morning is this:

"The play in question with Kobe Bryant is not a offense where one should suspend the player.  I mean, look... there wasn't even a foul called on that play, Ron Artest was the one who stopped play by arguing and then going after Kobe."

Okay, did he bother to watch the replay at all?  I mean, at all?  Ron Artest was called for a foul on that play, so the play was whistled dead... and then while Ron was trying to get untangled, Kobe threw an elbow (just like he did in game 1 when he purposely threw an elbow at Shane after the whistle).  To say what Cowherd said about the play in question is simply the height of ignorance and stupidity.  So what does Cowherd follow up with?

"Okay, look... the NBA rule book clearly states the following: No player or coach under any circumstance will be allowed to throw an elbow above the shoulder area and will be suspended for a minimum of one game if they are found in violation.  But please, come on... how can you suspend Kobe Bryant?"

Okay, so he clearly now states that he has no defense against the action, that Kobe should be suspended but the reality is that the NBA cannot do what is right, but what is popular and that is not suspend a superstar.  Well now, if the NBA wants to become a version of the WWF, may as well make Vince McMahon commissioner and put a couple of steroid freaks into the league who will (when the ref is not looking mind you) hit someone over the head with a chair or two.

If that is Mr. Cowherd's logic, then you have to carry it all the way through.

[hostros7]

I would prefer the referees recognize what a skeevy dbag Kobe is and stop giving him every call than suspend him.  If I were given one Muhammad Ali upper cut to dole out appropriately, Kobe would be the recipient when he gives that arrogant, cock-sucking, incredulous, i-anally-rape-young-girls-while-married-and-make-amends-with-a-$5mm-purple-diamon-ring look EVERY fucking time the whistle is blown against him in any manner. 

All of this only makes me more angry when he is the spokesperson for the NBA cares program commercial that good guys like Battier appear in.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

"Okay, look... the NBA rule book clearly states the following: No player or coach under any circumstance will be allowed to throw an elbow above the shoulder area and will be suspended for a minimum of one game if they are found in violation.  But please, come on... how can you suspend Kobe Bryant?"

First, I'm very sorry you listened to "The Herd".

Here's a clip from a regular season game between the Mavericks and Nuggets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-dX-e8KzIw

Mark Cuban bitched and moaned publicly and demanded disciplinary action.  The league reviewed the play; Smith was not punished in any way.

Chances are Artest will get a bigger fine than Kobe.

[Noe]

First, I'm very sorry you listened to "The Herd".

Here's a clip from a regular season game between the Mavericks and Nuggets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-dX-e8KzIw

Mark Cuban bitched and moaned publicly and demanded disciplinary action.  The league reviewed the play; Smith was not punished in any way.

Chances are Artest will get a bigger fine than Kobe.

Exactly the point.  The minute, I mean the very second the league sends the message that you cannot do that... and suspending a superstar sends the message clearly... it will stop.  When the 70s version of the NBA was out of hand and fighting was commonplace, the NBA decided they needed to clean up the game.  So they put rules in place, such as "automatic fine for leaving the bench".  Many players violated the rule thinking "aw, they won't do anything".  And for the longest time the NBA did not.  Until one day the fighting with guys leaving the bench got really ugly.  Stern got mad and the rule, already in place, got strictly enforced.

Players now do not leave the bench.  See, I don't believe in the retaliation un-written rule.  I believe in the Battier method of just walking away from punks.  That is what you want players to do.  And then you want the refs and then the league to step in and send the right message.  If not, then don't be surprised if someone takes a elbow to Kobe's throat and that would be the worse thing that could happen.

[Noe]

BTW - on a seperate issue but nonetheless very important, what the heck is Von Wafer thinking?!?!  The guy argues with the coach and gets himself throw out of the rotation and the whole fourth quarter?  That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  A playoff game, well within reach to win, you're a guy who is being used by the coach in a playoff rotation and you decide to elevate yourself above the team?

What the heck is that?!?!

[Gizzmonic]

Players now do not leave the bench.  See, I don't believe in the retaliation un-written rule.  I believe in the Battier method of just walking away from punks.  That is what you want players to do.  And then you want the refs and then the league to step in and send the right message.  If not, then don't be surprised if someone takes a elbow to Kobe's throat and that would be the worse thing that could happen.

Sadly, I'm guessing it will happen if the refs don't start calling the game fairly.  I don't know how much longer they can hold Artest back.  And if he gets suspended, it will be the end of the series.  Also, my condolences for listening to Cowherd.  He is a blowhard idiot amongst blowhard idiots, and, like many of the worst talk show hosts, a failed comedian.

[TheWizard]

Did anyone notice the TNT announcer fawning over Fischer's "toughness" after he hit Scola, I thought that was a little out of line.

That f'ing blew my mind.  How are you going to commend actions like that??

The refereeing last night was unbelievable.  I could not believe Ron got ejected for one technical.  Why on earth was he thrown out, and Kobe "The Sex Offender" Bryant wasn't?  And like you guys have said, Ron wasn't making a throat slashing symbol, he was just saying "don't elbow me in the throat".  There's so much to say about last night's game.. but jeezus.  Worst case scenario is that they suspend Ron, and leave Kobe alone.  That would be ridiculous.  I hate Kobe so much.

[TheWizard]

 "You gotta have balls to hit a guy like me... Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest? C'mon."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjlxCyUbpMo

Ron's post-game is worth watching.

[Noe]

Sadly, I'm guessing it will happen if the refs don't start calling the game fairly.  I don't know how much longer they can hold Artest back.  And if he gets suspended, it will be the end of the series.  Also, my condolences for listening to Cowherd.  He is a blowhard idiot amongst blowhard idiots, and, like many of the worst talk show hosts, a failed comedian.

The news today is that the NBA is reviewing the plays.  I suspect Fisher is as automatic as it goes.  Kobe?  Well, again the rule is very specific:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4149018]ESPN Reports about the NBA review going on

In NBA shorthand, it is known as the elbow rule: Strike an opposing player above the shoulders with an elbow foul, and it's an automatic ejection.

It was the rule invoked to suspend Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard in Game 6 of the first round -- a rule that the NBA has to debate whether to apply Thursday on another busy day in the office of NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson.

Several physical plays from Wednesday night's playoff games were under review, and one of the biggest questions was: Where exactly did Kobe Bryant's elbow make contact with Ron Artest?

When the news is breaking now that they are trying to determine the location of the elbow, then you know the story has been already put in place to avoid suspension.  They're floating the story now in order to see who reacts.  If it gets play that Kobe did not *technically* violate the rule, then it will be safe to avoid the superstars sits one game (minimum).

And for those who want to avoid suspension in order to see the macho bs take over in the NBA, all I have to say is this: Be careful what you're wishing for, you just may get it.  Allowing this sort of machismo to take over in the NBA is inviting another Kermit Washington moment and that would set the league back thirty years.

[TheWizard]

As a pessimistic Rockets fan, I think they are gonna let Kobe walk on technicality. 

[Noe]

As a pessimistic Rockets fan, I think they are gonna let Kobe walk on technicality. 

The technicality is already put in place, including opposing video cameras that someone is trotting out to prove it.  This will get the same review as the Zapruder film it seems.  All this to avoid sending the message out loud and clear: NBA offices agree... Kobe Bryant is a punk.  All those years creating the Kobe reputation as what the NBA is all about, they can't let it come crashing down as it should have after the rape charges.

As long as Kobe keeps redrawing the line for the NBA and they allow it, it will be so.  It's a shame because it seems the NBA doesn't realize they have plenty of other players that are much more appropriate to carry the torch for the league.  Oh look that LaBron kid seems to be very good and that is beyond what he does on the court too.

[Gizzmonic]

And for those who want to avoid suspension in order to see the macho bs take over in the NBA, all I have to say is this: Be careful what you're wishing for, you just may get it.  Allowing this sort of machismo to take over in the NBA is inviting another Kermit Washington moment and that would set the league back thirty years.

Don't know if that was directed at me but let me just say unequivocally that I watch for basketball, not fighting.  I'd like to see the refs enforce the rules equally on all players instead of going soft on superstars.  To me, that's the most glaring weakness of the NBA.  

[Noe]

Don't know if that was directed at me but let me just say unequivocally that I watch for basketball, not fighting.  I'd like to see the refs enforce the rules equally on all players instead of going soft on superstars.  To me, that's the most glaring weakness of the NBA.  

No, not at you.  At former NBA guys who did play in the 70s and 80s (including Barkley and Smith) when they took care of things on the floor and also when you hear Kobe and Artest comments after the game.  But it will get ugly like it did with Kermit Washington and that is why you cannot advocate to let them play like this.  When some people start to call "tough play" while pointing at "dirty play", then the message is mixed in my mind.  Tough play to be is go after a rebound and battle for the ball, not throw an elbow at the opposing player.  There is a difference and it has to be very clear.

Take this crap out of the game now or make it the WWF and be done with it, so no one will get hurt in a way that we all will feel sorry we witness (as I still feel when I remember the Kermit Washington moment all these years later).

[kevwun]

All of this made me think of Kermit Washington before you posted that.  Kobe would be wise to stop messing with Artest.  I would not want to be within 100 yards of him if he snaps.

[Noe]

All of this made me think of Kermit Washington before you posted that.  Kobe would be wise to stop messing with Artest.  I would not want to be within 100 yards of him if he snaps.

Eggszactly.  Just saying.

[Limey]

Don't know if that was directed at me but let me just say unequivocally that I watch for basketball, not fighting.  I'd like to see the refs enforce the rules equally on all players instead of going soft on superstars.  To me, that's the most glaring weakness of the NBA.  

Calling superstars differently to everyone else; calling the first 5 minutes differently to the last 5 minutes; and calling the playoffs differently to the regular season are all engrained in the NBA.  Basically, the rule of law is fluid, which is what makes the NBA complete bullshit.

[TheWizard]

Calling superstars differently to everyone else; calling the first 5 minutes differently to the last 5 minutes; and calling the playoffs differently to the regular season are all engrained in the NBA.  Basically, the rule of law is fluid, which is what makes the NBA complete bullshit.

Joey Crawford is bullshit.  Ron has seen someone get stabbed through the heart during a basketball game according to his interview, so I'm sure he will come back strong.

[pravata]

The LA Times has a source that says Fisher will be suspended one game and

"...the league is expected to hit Bryant with a flagrant foul "one," which is not cause for suspension."

Link

What is that worth?  A fine?  Money? Great, line up Rockets and do the forearm drill on Kobe's lizard head.  It'll be like the dunking booth.

[Noe]

The LA Times has a source that says Fisher will be suspended one game and

"...the league is expected to hit Bryant with a flagrant foul "one," which is not cause for suspension."

Link

What is that worth?  A fine?  Money? Great, line up Rockets and do the forearm drill on Kobe's lizard head.  It'll be like the dunking booth.

The best thing for the NBA to do is warn refs before game 3 with this "First sign of anyone, especially Kobe, throwing cheap shots or even trying to instigate a confrontation, lite 'em up with a T.  And if you have to, eject them."

They won't, but they need to.

[MusicMan]

Instead it will be "First sign of a Rockets lead, especially a big one, or even trying to make this a series, lite 'em up with ticky-tack fouls.  And if you have to, eject them."

[Noe]

Instead it will be "First sign of a Rockets lead, especially a big one, or even trying to make this a series, lite 'em up with ticky-tack fouls.  And if you have to, eject them."

Use to be, you could count on home court getting you about three "look the other way" no foul calls, one or two non-traveling calls, a punch someone in the junk while I look away non-call and at least ten points worth of free throw opportunities on ticky-tack fouls.  That was the NBA.  Then it started to change, but guys like Crawford are so old school, they still ref by old school unwritten rules.

[roadrunner]

So Artest actually witnessed a murder during a pick up game. 

What a character.

[Andyzipp]

So Artest actually witnessed a murder during a pick up game. 

What a character.

This actually happened...

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/15/nyregion/player-dies-in-stabbing-at-basketball-game.html

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Use to be, you could count on home court getting you about three "look the other way" no foul calls, one or two non-traveling calls, a punch someone in the junk while I look away non-call and at least ten points worth of free throw opportunities on ticky-tack fouls.  That was the NBA.  Then it started to change, but guys like Crawford are so old school, they still ref by old school unwritten rules.

Here's some classic old school rules:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3tc7TXMBT8

Robert Parrish was not ejected.  Suspended for the next game, but not ejected from that one.

[Bench]

Joey Crawford is bullshit.  Ron has seen someone get stabbed through the heart during a basketball game according to his interview, so I'm sure he will come back strong.

I still haven't figured out how the table (or chair?) leg comes into the story.

[otterjb]

The NBA is so heavyily invested in a Lakers/Cavs...Kobe/Lebron Finals that they'll do as much as they can get away with to make it happen.

[chuck]

Allowing this sort of machismo to take over in the NBA is inviting another Kermit Washington moment and that would set the league back thirty years.

I would LOVE for the league to be set back thirty years. David Stern is a smarmy, reprehensible, reptilian fuck who makes Bud Selig look like a paragon of virtue and intelligence. Stern has ruined the league and turned it into the WWF on hardwood. I can't imagine I'll ever spend another dollar on the NBA in any manner.

[subnuclear]

The NBA is so heavyily invested in a Lakers/Cavs...Kobe/Lebron Finals that they'll do as much as they can get away with to make it happen.

I'm not on expert on NBA stuff, but doesn't the NBA also gain some benefit from having the star player from the most populous country in the world in the finals?   Have I done the math wrong? 

[Noe]

The NBA is so heavyily invested in a Lakers/Cavs...Kobe/Lebron Finals that they'll do as much as they can get away with to make it happen.

And I agree with this as well and do not fault the NBA for this.  Do they systematically try to make this happen or does the superstar (by virtue of superstar-ness) make it happen.  What I've noticed in the NBA lately is that one superstar does not make such a scenario viable.  Most teams need a duo at minimum (Kobe-Shaq, Shaq-Wade, Pierce-Garnett-Allen, etc.).  I refuse to believe Kobe-Gasol or any variation is the winning ticket, so maybe they do need help.  But LeBron is huge and can make it happen if so, what do I know.

I would love to see LeBron vs Kobe though, but not at the expense of being fair about the games played to make it happen.

[kevwun]

I still haven't figured out how the table (or chair?) leg comes into the story.

The guy was stabbed with a leg from the scorer's table at a YMCA tournament.  A fight broke out over the score.  Fans and players were involved in it and at some point I guess someone ripped off a table leg and stabbed the guy in the back.

[otterjb]

And I agree with this as well and do not fault the NBA for this.  Do they systematically try to make this happen or does the superstar (by virtue of superstar-ness) make it happen.  What I've noticed in the NBA lately is that one superstar does not make such a scenario viable.  Most teams need a duo at minimum (Kobe-Shaq, Shaq-Wade, Pierce-Garnett-Allen, etc.).  I refuse to believe Kobe-Gasol or any variation is the winning ticket, so maybe they do need help.  But LeBron is huge and can make it happen if so, what do I know.

I would love to see LeBron vs Kobe though, but not at the expense of being fair about the games played to make it happen.

I blame the NBA for it. I'd love to see every player officiated the same. I'd be a much more interested if they did.

[Bench]

The guy was stabbed with a leg from the scorer's table at a YMCA tournament.  A fight broke out over the score.  Fans and players were involved in it and at some point I guess someone ripped off a table leg and stabbed the guy in the back.

Oh. 

[otterjb]

I'm not on expert on NBA stuff, but doesn't the NBA also gain some benefit from having the star player from the most populous country in the world in the finals?   Have I done the math wrong? 

Sure they'd benefit, but not as much as the hype-fest of a Kobe-LeBron, with casual and even non-fans tuning in.

[austro]

I blame the NBA for it. I'd love to see every player officiated the same. I'd be a much more interested if they did.

You would, but the Kobe-jersey-buying-lugnuts in LA wouldn't. And since they're pouring more money into the NBA coffers than you are...

[otterjb]

You would, but the Kobe-jersey-buying-lugnuts in LA wouldn't. And since they're pouring more money into the NBA coffers than you are...

Yup.

[chuck]

You would, but the Kobe-jersey-buying-lugnuts in LA wouldn't. And since they're pouring more money into the NBA coffers than you are...

There was some fucking jackoff in a Kobe jersey on the floor going bananas when Artest was led off the court after his ejection. This fuckstick had on a Kobe jersey and a New York Yankees baseball hat. Slightly sideways, of course. Fucking perfect for an LA "fan." This is precisely the sort of shithead the NBA is gearing itself to now. They're obviously doing a great job of it.

[hostros7]

There was some fucking jackoff in a Kobe jersey on the floor going bananas when Artest was led off the court after his ejection. This fuckstick had on a Kobe jersey and a New York Yankees baseball hat. Slightly sideways, of course. Fucking perfect for an LA "fan." This is precisely the sort of shithead the NBA is gearing itself to now. They're obviously doing a great job of it.

Ha, I noticed this snatchracket as well even though he was only on TV for all of two seconds and then proceeded to get about 4 texts from other friends watching the game commenting on how he was the paradigm of penis yoddlers.

[TheWizard]

There was some fucking jackoff in a Kobe jersey on the floor going bananas when Artest was led off the court after his ejection. This fuckstick had on a Kobe jersey and a New York Yankees baseball hat. Slightly sideways, of course. Fucking perfect for an LA "fan." This is precisely the sort of shithead the NBA is gearing itself to now. They're obviously doing a great job of it.

I noticed that too.  What a "fan".  Stern is like the Emperor from Star Wars, leading an evil empire.  I don't know if that is too nerdy of a reference... but whatever.

And it blows my mind that the stabbing story is true.

[Andyzipp]

I noticed that too.  What a "fan".  Stern is like the Emperor from Star Wars, leading an evil empire.  I don't know if that is too nerdy of a reference... but whatever.

And it blows my mind that the stabbing story is true.

Why would RonRon lie?

[pravata]

Why would RonRon lie?

And if you're going to make up something to stab at people, are you going to pick "table leg"?  Turkey leg, andiron, tomato stake, rolled up newspaper, but tore a leg off the table?  Not the first thing that comes to mind.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I'm not on expert on NBA stuff, but doesn't the NBA also gain some benefit from having the star player from the most populous country in the world in the finals?   Have I done the math wrong? 

Stern would be okay with a Yao/LeBron finals.  The nightmare scenario is the Nuggets with "tattooed thug" (not my actual opinion) Carmelo Anthony v. LeBron, even though it would be an entertaining series, because that's the image that the NBA is trying to put in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible.

[MusicMan]

Fisher supended; rapist gets a flagrant foul

[WakePhil]

And if you're going to make up something to stab at people, are you going to pick "table leg"?  Turkey leg, andiron, tomato stake, rolled up newspaper, but tore a leg off the table?  Not the first thing that comes to mind.

Not the first thing that comes to your mind. Assuming you and Ron share the same mental plane may be a stretch. I personally have higher crazy expectations for Ron than I do you. If Ron isn't going table leg on his stories then I don't think he's giving me 100%. The fact that this story is true hardly makes a difference. The topic of retaliation is brought up and Ron Ron goes back and pulls up some 18 year old memory of table leg murder to make his point? Who does that? Ron Artest.

Who else brings stuff like that to the table? Love that guy.

[kevwun]

I think it was his way of telling Kobe that he has no problem beating him to death with his own shoes if necessary.

[Billy Zabka]

Calling superstars differently to everyone else; calling the first 5 minutes differently to the last 5 minutes; and calling the playoffs differently to the regular season are all engrained in the NBA.  Basically, the rule of law is fluid, which is what makes the NBA complete bullshit.

I don't know how many of you read Chuck Klosterman, but he once said the same thing up until the last sentence where he said the NBA is rigged, just like life is rigged.

[Noe]

On my way home from work today, I heard what has to be the most stupidest comments about the whole Kobe/Artest affair ever.  It was Chad Hastings sitting solo chair doing the afternoon sports.  I like to listen to Hogan and Rosenthal in the morning on the way to work and so I left the station on my radio dial when I got in the car.  I start to drive home and then I hear Hastings about to make his mark in the stupid hall of fame for radio personalities.  I thought the whole Colin Cowherd episode this morning was the height of bad radio, but when I heard Hastings and what he had to say... WOW!

He started off with this "I love Kobe Bryant!" and it went downhill from there.  He called Bryant's whole act brilliant and said that Kobe handled the whole thing with class and it was Artest whole blew the whole thing overboard.  He understood why Artest had to be ejected, he also said that Kobe being castigated right now by many in the media and that Artest being applauded for his action was strange to him.  He said he didn't understand why nobody saw what he saw.  (At this point, I'm thinking the guy was utterly drunk or sniffing clue when he watched the game because he had absolutely no clue what he was talking about).

It got worse and worse, and then he went to the "WWF and Vince McMahon" card, meaning he said he *loves* the WWF and that the NBA has some guys now who want to put on the theatre of the same ilk as the WWF was great!  He said he thought Fisher's actions were very WWF-like.  I couldn't stand it any more and quickly changed to a music CD.

I planned to rid myself of all this awful day after analysis, but got home in time to watch Wilbon and Kornheiser's PTI show.  Luckily, I was not disappointed, they did a good job talking about it and even invited Shane Battier on to talk about it.  Wilbon impressed me with what he asked Battier, never once glorifying Kobe, he was so even handed about it, you forgot for a minute he was a member of the media.  But then he told Kornheiser this "We're old school Tony, what bothers us doesn't bother many others..."

That's when I knew that listening to a young radio personality like Hastings was eggszactly why Wilbon said what he said.  It's a different set of sports media eyeballs and be very wary of those with the media affected attitudes and viewpoints, including praising player simply because they're superstars.  When a guy like Wilbon has to call down Kobe, it is because it is fair to call him down on his foilbles.  When a guy like Hastings goes on a rant praising Kobe simply because he loves the Kobe's ungodly game so that gives him a right to be a punk, then you know why you hear what you hear sometimes.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Kobe is a really skilled basketball player and a despicable human. Mediots talk about how "smart' and "cultured" Kobe is. The dumb shit allows himself to get set-up and shook down by a high school kid. He is a petty pea-brained back-stabbing selfish mother fucker who plays basketball. I hate him and all who defend him. The real evil is that he gets a pass because of his genetic code. One can't help but wonder, as long as he can sink a critical three, how far this reprobate could push his malevolence. In a just world people like Kobe would get their comeuppance sooner than later. We only know what the malefactor has been caught at, who knows what evil deeds he has gotten away with. I bet he takes tea at three.

[Ebby Calvin]

My mother's side of the family lives entirely in California.  They're all great people, and I sincerely enjoy every minute I spend with them.  This is no exaggeration.
So one of my cousins is a big Lakers/NBA fan, and we've been trash talking ever since the series was set.  Here's his response to my latest email:

"Shane Battier is the better man. Kobe is the better playa!
I agree that he deserved a T for talking smack.
But, what's up with Scola fronting our entire team?
Fish was sending him a little message ;)

And, your boy Wacko, er, Ron Artest is a NUT. I wouldn't be surprised if he punches Kobe in the jaw before this series is over. I think he'll be even more ruffled at home. good luck w/ that crazy!

you guys have a good team, finally. remember what I said about Rick never beating Phil, though."

I honestly fear for his sanity and have begun looking for professional help in California for him.  Trouble is, they're mostly fucking Lakers fans up there.  At least he doesn't wear a Yankmees hat, but that's only because he thinks baseball is "slow" and "boring."  Sigh....

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Watch a Cavaliers game.  When Lebron does something spectacular, the entire team reacts.  His teammates, fans, and coaches love him. 

When Kobe does something special there's none of that.  He smirks, runs back up court, and gets a couple of taps on the hand.  If he's really on his game, like wed night, you get "You can't guard me!" half a dozen times."  He's the ultimate in selfishness.  As for the notion of justice in this world, the clock is ticking, and he isn't going to be able to perform at this level forever.  When that time comes, he won't handle it well.  And once his team doesn't have to rely on him for their success, they'll kick his ass out.

[Noe]

Watch a Cavaliers game.  When Lebron does something spectacular, the entire team reacts.  His teammates, fans, and coaches love him. 

When Kobe does something special there's none of that.  He smirks, runs back up court, and gets a couple of taps on the hand.  If he's really on his game, like wed night, you get "You can't guard me!" half a dozen times."  He's the ultimate in selfishness.  As for the notion of justice in this world, the clock is ticking, and he isn't going to be able to perform at this level forever.  When that time comes, he won't handle it well.  And once his team doesn't have to rely on him for their success, they'll kick his ass out.

Wilbon offered yesterday (speaking to Kornheiser) that the league office has several people walking the halls saying "I wish Kobe wouldn't do that... it's getting hard to defend him" (speaking about the elbows he throws, especially when it became an issue with Rajah Bell in the playoffs).  The way Wilbon told it, Kobe isn't as well liked as the superstar that the league wants to spend a lot of energy propping up... methinks the winning of an MVP for LeBron is just the beginning of the NBA tossing all their marketing efforts over to LeBron and that includes whatever it takes to distance themselves from Kobe.

[Limey]

Wilbon offered yesterday (speaking to Kornheiser) that the league office has several people walking the halls saying "I wish Kobe wouldn't do that... it's getting hard to defend him" (speaking about the elbows he throws, especially when it became an issue with Rajah Bell in the playoffs).  The way Wilbon told it, Kobe isn't as well liked as the superstar that the league wants to spend a lot of energy propping up... methinks the winning of an MVP for LeBron is just the beginning of the NBA tossing all their marketing efforts over to LeBron and that includes whatever it takes to distance themselves from Kobe.

Ten years too late.

[Astroholic]

Wilbon offered yesterday (speaking to Kornheiser) that the league office has several people walking the halls saying "I wish Kobe wouldn't do that... it's getting hard to defend him" (speaking about the elbows he throws, especially when it became an issue with Rajah Bell in the playoffs).  The way Wilbon told it, Kobe isn't as well liked as the superstar that the league wants to spend a lot of energy propping up... methinks the winning of an MVP for LeBron is just the beginning of the NBA tossing all their marketing efforts over to LeBron and that includes whatever it takes to distance themselves from Kobe.

[/sidetrack] LeBron dancing to kidnplay has to be one of the funniest comercials I have seen. [/ end sidetrack]

[Bench]

Kobe is a really skilled basketball player and a despicable human. Mediots talk about how "smart' and "cultured" Kobe is. The dumb shit allows himself to get set-up and shook down by a high school kid. He is a petty pea-brained back-stabbing selfish mother fucker who plays basketball. I hate him and all who defend him. The real evil is that he gets a pass because of his genetic code. One can't help but wonder, as long as he can sink a critical three, how far this reprobate could push his malevolence. In a just world people like Kobe would get their comeuppance sooner than later. We only know what the malefactor has been caught at, who knows what evil deeds he has gotten away with. I bet he takes tea at three.

Please tell me you're not referring to the rape victim.

[MusicMan]

The dumb shit allows himself to get set-up and shook down by a high school kid.

Just like OJ allowed himself to get set-up and shook down by his ex-wife.

[otterjb]

Watch a Cavaliers game.  When Lebron does something spectacular, the entire team reacts.  His teammates, fans, and coaches love him. 

When Kobe does something special there's none of that.  He smirks, runs back up court, and gets a couple of taps on the hand.  If he's really on his game, like wed night, you get "You can't guard me!" half a dozen times."  He's the ultimate in selfishness.  As for the notion of justice in this world, the clock is ticking, and he isn't going to be able to perform at this level forever.  When that time comes, he won't handle it well.  And once his team doesn't have to rely on him for their success, they'll kick his ass out.

Exactly. Lebron is the anti-Kobe.

[Astroholic]

Exactly. Lebron is the anti-Kobe.

Its been several years since Ive hated the Lakers.  What in the hell was I thinking.  It on MotherFuckers...its on.

[TheWizard]

I like LeBron more than Kobe.  But LeBron also has a sense of entitlement, and has several time stated he wants to be the highest paid athlete in history.  He's even toyed with the idea of going to Europe to get paid more where there is no salary cap, because he'd still have time to come back to the NBA and win a championship.  The guy seems to be driven by money, especially given the history of shady transactions going back to his days in high school (ie the famous Hummer).  And his mom is a nut, always proclaiming BronBron is entitled to this and that.

I can't dispute that it seems that his teammates love him.  He hasn't given them a reason not to.  He's a young, cool guy.  But I wonder if that will ever change. 

Oh and on the court, LeBron whines about calls just about as much, if not more, than Kobe.

[Astroholic]

But LeBron also has a sense of entitlement

IMO, Most players have this "sense of entitlement", just different degrees.  MJ and Majic both had it.

[Andyzipp]

IMO, Most players have this "sense of entitlement", just different degrees.  MJ and Majic both had it.

So did Hakeem...

[TheWizard]

IMO, Most players have this "sense of entitlement", just different degrees.  MJ and Majic both had it.

That's fair.

[Gizzmonic]

Its been several years since Ive hated the Lakers.  What in the hell was I thinking.  It on MotherFuckers...its on.

Fall in hate again, for the first time.  It's easy to do, with the Los Angeles Lakers!

[BizidyDizidy]

IMO, Most players have this "sense of entitlement", just different degrees.  MJ and Majic both had it.

I'd expand it to most hyper successful people, regardless of field.

[Astroholic]

So did Hakeem...

Dreams game took him away from contact, but I guess I can see it.  Clyde had it for sure.  And don't get me started on HackaShaq.


Oh how could I forget Chuck?

[Andyzipp]

Dreams game took him away from contact, but I guess I can see it.  Clyde had it for sure.  And don't get me started on HackaShaq.


Oh how could I forget Chuck?

Hakeem used to scream at his teammates when they didn't pass him the ball and when he was much younger used to cuss out refs in various languages.

[Noe]

I like LeBron more than Kobe.  But LeBron also has a sense of entitlement, and has several time stated he wants to be the highest paid athlete in history.  He's even toyed with the idea of going to Europe to get paid more where there is no salary cap, because he'd still have time to come back to the NBA and win a championship.  The guy seems to be driven by money, especially given the history of shady transactions going back to his days in high school (ie the famous Hummer).  And his mom is a nut, always proclaiming BronBron is entitled to this and that.

I can't dispute that it seems that his teammates love him.  He hasn't given them a reason not to.  He's a young, cool guy.  But I wonder if that will ever change. 

Oh and on the court, LeBron whines about calls just about as much, if not more, than Kobe.

It's not about whining that supposedly is driving some NBA execs to worry about Kobe.  It is the cheap shots he takes at other players in the league and the flagrant elbows.  Kobe is angry (at what, I'm not sure).  He showed it when he fought openly with Shaq and had him removed.  Then he threatened to remove himself from LA unless they allowed him to have more say on things.  That is supposedly how Rudy T got hired at LA, also because coach K had no interest no matter how much Kobe wanted that.  Kobe is still on a mission to prove he can win without Shaq (while Shaq proved he could win without Kobe, albeit because he had Dwayne Wade on his side too).  So now it seems Kobe is angry at everyone and so he's physically being a spoiled brat.  Sort of like the kid you knew growing up who would kick you in the shin and then run home and hide behind his fence and stick his tongue out at you.  You'd swear that one day you were going to get that kid, but all you were told was "leave him alone, his Dad makes way too much money and could cause trouble for you and your family".

The NBA is stuck with this angry young man full of talent.  He has no table manners in terms of respect for others... he seems to be a user and that is beyond a sense of entitlement.  Time will tell how much Kobe will be remembered fondly by others or if he is remembered in a similar vein as Ty Cobb.  Great talent, no so great human being.

[Astroholic]

Hakeem used to scream at his teammates when they didn't pass him the ball and when he was much younger used to cuss out refs in various languages.

Yep.  He matured over his career.  Pretty sure Kobe won't do the same.


I was thinking more along the lines of expecting/no demanding respect from the officials/league.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

 He showed it when he fought openly with Shaq and had him removed.

A buddy of mine went to a wedding where Glenn Rice was a guest.  At the reception they got Rice lubed up with some EtOH and asked him about Shaq and Kobe.  He proceeded to tell the story of Kobe bowing up to Shaq in practice.  Kobe took offense to something Shaq did and called him out.  They squared off, then Shaq slapped him in the face and knocked him to the floor.  The very definition of a bitch slap.  

The incident is mentioned in this book excerpt (http://www.yaysports.com/nba/2005/09/shaq_slapped_kobe_but_good.html):
Just months before Jackson arrived, O’Neal had slapped Bryant during a pickup game at the Laker practice facility.

“It would not be forgotten,” former Laker guard Derek Fisher said of the incident.

When Jackson and his coaching staff began work in Los Angeles, they were caught off guard by O’Neal’s level of animosity toward Bryant. "

[Astroholic]

When Jackson and his coaching staff began work in Los Angeles, they were caught off guard by O’Neal’s level of animosity toward Bryant. "

I wouldnt like that punk ass bitch either.

[MusicMan]

I always knew I liked Shaq.

[TheWizard]

Shaq won without Kobe, in the literal sense.  But he was only a super-role player in the year of Wade for that championship.  Wade played out of his mind in those playoffs and was an All-World player and put on an All-World performance.  D-Wade won that championship, with help from Shaq, not the other way around.

I think in the whole Kobe-Shaq beef, both were just as petty as the other guy.  And it seems Shaq has been the guy that's had a harder time letting go.  Personally, I think both of them were just arrogant, petty, self-absorbed prima donnas and I don't think either one was better than the other.

[JimR]

Shaq won without Kobe, in the literal sense.  But he was only a super-role player in the year of Wade for that championship.  Wade played out of his mind in those playoffs and was an All-World player and put on an All-World performance.  D-Wade won that championship, with help from Shaq, not the other way around.

I think in the whole Kobe-Shaq beef, both were just as petty as the other guy.  And it seems Shaq has been the guy that's had a harder time letting go.  Personally, I think both of them were just arrogant, petty, self-absorbed prima donnas and I don't think either one was better than the other.

you loves you some Kobe, doncha?

[TheWizard]

you loves you some Kobe, doncha?

FUCK Kobe.

[MusicMan]

Personally, I think both of them were just arrogant, petty, self-absorbed prima donnas and I don't think either one was better than the other.

Let's see, one of them has gone out of his way to help kids and charities, and the other is an admitted rapist.  Personally, I think one WAS better than the other.

[TheWizard]

Let's see, one of them has gone out of his way to help kids and charities, and the other is an admitted rapist.  Personally, I think one WAS better than the other.

I'm talking about their beef.  Off the court, there is no doubt who I'd rather hang out with.  Fuck Kobe.

[BizidyDizidy]

Let's see, one of them has gone out of his way to help kids and charities, and the other is an admitted rapist.  Personally, I think one WAS better than the other.

Also, Shaq has the nickname "The Big Aristotle", while Kobe is named after Uma Thurman. No contest.

[TheWizard]

I think my hate of the Lakers just permeates so deep that I've hated Kobe for so long, I'll never accept him.  Between the rape allegations, his whiny attitude, trying to emulate Jordan with everything from how he chews his gum to how he talks, how he acts towards his teammates, and how he gets away with being a bitch on the court - it adds up.  I'll never be able to look past it.

But because of my hate of the Lakers, I won't really ever like Shaq much again either.  He's a petty guy, he's just funny about it.  He rips just about every city he leaves.  He's done it to Orlando, he's done it to LA, he's done it to Miami, and he'll do it to PHX.  He's ripped former teammates, former coaches, former cities.  He'll even rip on guys he doesn't know.  For example, when he got all huffy and puffy when someone started talking about Dwight during one of his interviews this year and said something like there is only one Superman, and followed that by insulting Dwight's game. 

He was in the wrong when he started talking about Van Gundy this year, and went on a whole rant.  He kept saying "he said I'm flopping, with an -ing, that implies I do it frequently" and went on to completely rip Van Gundy a new one.  And if you watch the tape, Van Gundy said he flopped ONE time, he didn't use the -ing Shaq so emphatically bitched about.  Hell, he's the one that got his coach fired by bitching so much openly (not that I don't think Riley was gonna take over anyway eventually). 

So I don't know, I guess the whole point of my whole rant is - fuck Kobe and fuck Shaq.  Both are Lakers to me.  One has just moved on because their giant egos couldn't co-exist, and the Lakers chose the younger asshole.

Oh, I forgot to mention how much it pissed off a lot of people that Shaq tried to take D-Wade's spotlight when he won the Finals MVP.  Shaq went on stage and held the trophy, acting like he let D-Wade win it.  Give me a break.

[Noe]

My point was never how much I liked Shaq (although Shaq is more personable and will have more of a legacy as a decent guy after he retires... he is seen as funny and outgoing by many who know him).  My point is Kobe is beyond entitlement, he seems to be a man who went confronted with adversity doesn't go about rising to the challenge with dignity, but rather chooses to handle it with the proverbial "by any means possible".  My Ty Cobb analogy is that this was the essence of Tyrus, "by any means possible" and if that meant spiking a guy, then by gosh he did it.  People forget sometimes that Cobb had some ungodly talent, but he was also extremely jealous of players of his time: Nap Lajoelie (sp?), Babe Ruth, Shoeless Joe, etc.

(http://www.spikesnstars.com/graphics/sliding_into_home.jpg)

History does remember it's sports heroes.  Most are flawed, like Babe Ruth, but not enough to make those flaws the object of how they're remembered.  By and large, legacy is about how you play and also conduct yourself playing.  Just being super talented alone won't drive how you're remembered.  What drives how you're remembered is how you conducted yourself just as much.

[TheWizard]

My post wasn't directed at your Noe, if that was implied.  I was just trying to point out that I am by no means some dirty Kobe lover.  I dislike both guys.  Maybe... dislike Shaq, and hate Kobe.

[Billy Zabka]

and the other is an admitted rapist.

How is he an "admitted" rapist?

[Astroholic]

How is he an "admitted" rapist?

Same way OJ might of hacked off his wifes head?  You know.

[Noe]

My post wasn't directed at your Noe, if that was implied.  I was just trying to point out that I am by no means some dirty Kobe lover.  I dislike both guys.  Maybe... dislike Shaq, and hate Kobe.

Cool.  I can't honestly say I hate Kobe though.  I don't.  But I can honestly say I hate the methods some guys use to prove that they are the best that ever played.  Kobe has talent, other world type of talent.  Is he better than Jordan (a flawed man in his own right)?  I don't see how Kobe will ever be MJ and have all those endorsement deals that put him in a good light with all sports fans.  Jordan is talked about in reverence.

Kobe?

Right now I'd say if he keeps up his "by any means necessary" tricks, not so much reverence that I can think of.

[MusicMan]

How is he an "admitted" rapist?

http://www.insidehoops.com/kobe-bryant-apology-letter.shtml

Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.

[Bench]

I think in the whole Kobe-Shaq beef,

That preening dickhead has even managed to ruin kobe beef.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

This article on CNN/SI addresses the "Is Kobe Dirty?" question pretty succintly:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/05/08/kobe/index.html?bcnn=yes

[MusicMan]

I love that the URL ends in "yes".

[Gizzmonic]

Looks like someone is upset about Kobe's superstar treatment WRT his attack on Artest.

Here's the text in case some LakerFan deletes it from wikipedia:

    * Note: NBA Rule 12A Section 5 Exceptions do not apply to players Stu Jackson deems to be "superstars," as evidenced by the 2009 NBA Western Conference Semifinals Game 2 between The Los Angeles Lakers and Houston Rockets when Kobe Bryant clearly threw an elbow into Ron Artest's throat. Though exception I. (3) states that the player must be ejected, Bryant was allowed to remain in the game without even a foul called. After further review, Jackson did not suspend Bryant for this obvious rule violation, instead slapping him on the wrist with a flagrant 1 foul, proving yet again that "superstars" play by a different set of rules than other NBA players.

[edit]

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Lakers move of fronting Yao has thrown the Rockets into a huge funk.  Frustrating as hell.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

The thing this Rockets team lacks is one consistent, go-to guy for end of game situations.  Various players have played that role (Landry, Brooks, Wafer, Ron-Ron), but no one has been able to establish themselves as The Man for those situations.  That's what we need tonight, and I hope someone's going to find that spark soon.

[TheWizard]

I was pretty happy that the Rockets played a bad first half, but managed to stay in the game.  I figured at home, they would turn it on in the 2nd half and run with it.  Obviously, didn't happen.  IMO, they need to get the ball to Scola in the post more.  He is absolutely working Odom on the block.  If you can't get it to Yao, swing it and post up Scola. 

[Lurch]

Yao out the rest of the playoffs.

[Savage]

Yao out the rest of the playoffs.

The Astros need to win today's game because between this and the Caps giving up an own fucking goal in OT to the pens, i'm in a dark, dark sports place right now.

[pravata]

Yao out the rest of the playoffs.

So, that's over.  Give Artest a table leg and let him go?

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Ron Ron as the number 1 option . . .

I'm going to go hit my head against a brick wall now.

[otterjb]

So, that's over.  Give Artest a table leg and let him go?

Hey go Ron Ron Ron, hey go Ron Ron.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

the Caps giving up an own fucking goal in OT to the pens, i'm in a dark, dark sports place right now.

Sorry. But. Go Pens. Screw that cheap-shot Ovechkin asshole.

[TheWizard]

I am nervous about this game now.  Hopefully the team doesn't forget to show up.

[Savage]

Sorry. But. Go Pens. Screw that cheap-shot Ovechkin asshole.

player being injured does not automatically equal cheap shot.  it was a clean hit - shouldn't even have been a penalty.  But i can see how someone who watches crosby frequently would get confused.  #4: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?page=0809playersurvey

[otterjb]

Rockets up 18 at the half. Wow.

[Savage]

Rockets up 18 at the half. Wow.

up by 29 heading into the 4th.  Lakers not exactly looking like championship material.

[OregonStrosFan]

Didn't see this coming.  Wow!

[JaneDoe]

Didn't see this coming.  Wow!

SSSHHHHHHHH!!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Scola, Battier, and Brooks are awesome.

[JaneDoe]

[exhale] Woohoo Rockets!

[OregonStrosFan]

SSSHHHHHHHH!!

Was referring to a 30 pt lead in the 4th.  Was not calling the game a "W".  SnS has trained me better than that...

[ybbodeus]

"Chris Rock" with 34 points?  That's one flat out stunning turnaround from his game Friday night.  Chuck Hayes is my unsung hero of the game, but he had some company from the team for that designation.

[Bench]

"Chris Rock" with 34 points?  That's one flat out stunning turnaround from his game Friday night.  Chuck Hayes is my unsung hero of the game, but he had some company from the team for that designation.

Heh.  All the women in the bar I was at kept remarking that Brooks looked like a young Chris Rock.

[Noe]

In the game Friday night and today, I noticed that Kobe Bryant was not very cocky.  Either he's decided to tone it down a little and let his game do the talking (probably because he can't stand that the media basically took Ron Artest's side... of all people), or he's playing just a tad out of sync.  Today, he passed up some shots that usually you see Bryant trying to make (and he does make those shots).

Something is up with Kobe.

[Limey]

In the game Friday night and today, I noticed that Kobe Bryant was not very cocky.  Either he's decided to tone it down a little and let his game do the talking (probably because he can't stand that the media basically took Ron Artest's side... of all people), or he's playing just a tad out of sync.  Today, he passed up some shots that usually you see Bryant trying to make (and he does make those shots).

Something is up with Kobe.

He does have a reputation, so I choose my words carefully.  You tell Kobe...to go fuck himself.

[ybbodeus]

Heh.  All the women in the bar I was at kept remarking that Brooks looked like a young Chris Rock.

Possible SaB candidate?

[Limey]

Possible SaB candidate?

Try this one on for size:

Rick Adelman

'atchet 'arry

[Gizzmonic]

I don't know what talk show it was, but I just got an earful of a couple of LA homers worrying themselves sick about the Rockets.  They kept playing the Phil Jackson f-bomb sound bite over and over again and then they accused the Lakers of feeling "entitled."

I'm very hopeful about the Rockets, but even if they don't get any further, they should be proud.  Great season, very tough, hustling team.

[Limey]

I don't know what talk show it was, but I just got an earful of a couple of LA homers worrying themselves sick about the Rockets.  They kept playing the Phil Jackson f-bomb sound bite over and over again and then they accused the Lakers of feeling "entitled."

I'm very hopeful about the Rockets, but even if they don't get any further, they should be proud.  Great season, very tough, hustling team.

Impossible not to get behind this team.  Their humiliation of LA on national television was priceless.  There could not have been a better demonstration of the contrast between a team that feels it's entitled to win, and a team that knows it has to earn a win.  The Lakers are playing for two wins at home...good.  These Rockets might just steal one of those from them.  If they don't they're still a more deserving team than LA.

[TheWizard]

Shane is doing a great job of keeping Kobe out of the lane and taking fadeaway jumpshots.  I think that's partly due to Shane's excellent defense and partly due to Kobe's fading knees.  But whatever it is, its working.

The team is going to have to keep on getting points from guys like Brooks and Shane to have any chance of winning the series though.  We weren't a high scoring team to begin with, and with Yao out, we are going to have to keep on shooting lights out.

[kevwun]

I can't wait to see what Morey's going to do when he finally has a max contract to use.  He's done a heck of job with a tight cap situation the last few years.

[Limey]

The team is going to have to keep on getting points from guys like Brooks and Shane to have any chance of winning the series though.  We weren't a high scoring team to begin with, and with Yao out, we are going to have to keep on shooting lights out.

They have to play stifling defense and score just enough.  As was noted in Sunday's broadcast, they're now basically playing 4 vs. 5 on offense (because Chuck Hayes as no game on that end), so their strength is going to be playing 5 vs. 5 on defense.

[Noe]

Playoff basketball isn't about having a scorer.  Playoff basketball, at it's best, is about playing half-court basketball, playing defense and having one go-to guy who can get you an important basket.  If you keep a team within ten points of you, you have a chance to win... every time.  In the days of Showtime vs. Boston's infamous half-court, defense lock-down basketball, many people thought LA would blow the Boston team off the court.  They didn't and those games were classic.  But as it were, it was LA being able to adjust to playoff basketball and not the other way around.

You have to play half-court basketball and defense to win a championship.

[TheWizard]

Playoff basketball isn't about having a scorer.  Playoff basketball, at it's best, is about playing half-court basketball, playing defense and having one go-to guy who can get you an important basket.  If you keep a team within ten points of you, you have a chance to win... every time.  In the days of Showtime vs. Boston's infamous half-court, defense lock-down basketball, many people thought LA would blow the Boston team off the court.  They didn't and those games were classic.  But as it were, it was LA being able to adjust to playoff basketball and not the other way around.

You have to play half-court basketball and defense to win a championship.

That's fair that good playoff basketball is in the half court game, but I wouldn't say we have to play a half-court game to beat LA, if that's what you are getting at.  Not every successful playoff team plays half-court basketball.  And conversely, not every championship squad is a half-court type of team.  It is one good formula for winning, but its not the only way.  And now, I don't think our squad really fits the mold of a half-court team.  Both our PGs would rather get to the hoop or score, and our best scorer is a 2/3.  We don't have a low-post presence to play a consistent half-court game.  We aren't gonna run our offense through Scola, our best post-up offensive player now, regardless of how good he's been.

Defense is obviously important.  You aren't going to win ballgames without playing good defense.  But to John Madden it, you still gotta score more points than the other team.  Our team is going to have a tough time scoring enough points to consistently beat LA without Yao.  But if we keep locking down Kobe and forcing him and his tired knees to take jumpers, we have a shot.

[Noe]

That's fair that good playoff basketball is in the half court game, but I wouldn't say we have to play a half-court game to beat LA, if that's what you are getting at.  Not every successful playoff team plays half-court basketball.  And conversely, not every championship squad is a half-court type of team.  It is one good formula for winning, but its not the only way.  And now, I don't think our squad really fits the mold of a half-court team.  Both our PGs would rather get to the hoop or score, and our best scorer is a 2/3.  We don't have a low-post presence to play a consistent half-court game.  We aren't gonna run our offense through Scola, our best post-up offensive player now, regardless of how good he's been.

Defense is obviously important.  You aren't going to win ballgames without playing good defense.  But to John Madden it, you still gotta score more points than the other team.  Our team is going to have a tough time scoring enough points to consistently beat LA without Yao.  But if we keep locking down Kobe and forcing him and his tired knees to take jumpers, we have a shot.

Actually, I think the problem with the Rockets is the lack of a legitimate go-to guy.  Artest is woefully inconsistent, Brooks is still a young player and prone to make mistakes and Battier has to be stretched to be *that* guy.  They'll be close, but in the end, if LA plays go enough defense (and they're the laziest defensive playoff team in the playoffs right now... or so it seems), decides that playing half-court basketball is not a disease and should be avoided then they have the best, or one of the best behind LeBron, go to guy in the whole NBA.  Still, it's LA's to lose and Houston's to steal.  Can they steal it?  Yes, because I am not impressed by LA... at all.  Look for a Ralph Sampson-like miracle answered or Mario Ellie-like kiss of death shot to put a dagger in the heart of LA because Houston will stay close.  It all depends on LA if they want to work and get where they need to go and not just think they are owed anything.

BTW - scoring more than the other guy is as much about defense as it is about offense.  If you hold LA to 45% or under shooting and in the range of 95 pts per game, they lose.  Their record when that happens is woeful.  LA wants to run and have a quick pace.  They don't want to play half-court, matchup offense and defense.  That is a game they abhor and that is exactly what Houston should do.

If they get by the Rockets, and they should, then they still have to get by Denver (as it looks now) and then Orlando or Cleveland.  Toughness to play half-court, lock-down defense is what is holding LA back to get past those three teams.  Houston is exposing them right now and that in it of itself is a huge win on Houston's part.  They have, in essence, exposed a Fakers team right now, a bunch of wannabe tough guys who are not tough at all.

[MusicMan]

Nobody is beating Cleveland in a 7-game series.  We are all witnesses.

[Bench]

Actually, I think the problem with the Rockets is the lack of a legitimate go-to guy.  Artest is woefully inconsistent, Brooks is still a young player and prone to make mistakes and Battier has to be stretched to be *that* guy. 

Battier is too busy guarding Kobe to be that guy.

[Noe]

Battier is too busy guarding Kobe to be that guy.

But now, he's not under orders to make the pass into Yao... there is no Yao to pass to.  Now he's under orders to shoot.  In the best Hollywood script, Battier hits that Ellie-like shot to put the dagger in the heart of LA.  So that means it won't happen mind you, but if I were writing a script, that's what I would write... complete with a flashback moment to Ellie as Battier is shown in slow motion taking the shot.

[TheWizard]

Kobe has not respected Shane's shooting at ALL so far in this series.  He's drifted off of him nearly every possession.  I figure that will change once they watch some tape and realize, like everyone else has, that there is no Yao and no need to drift off their perimeter responsibilities.  Its going to get tougher from here for the shooters.

LA is playing every game like its a regular season game.  I don't really understand it.

[ybbodeus]

Kobe has not respected Shane's shooting at ALL so far in this series.  He's drifted off of him nearly every possession.  I figure that will change once they watch some tape and realize, like everyone else has, that there is no Yao and no need to drift off their perimeter responsibilities. 

Enter Scola.

[TheWizard]

Enter Scola.

Scola has a really nice post game.  He has owned Odom down on the block.

[TheWizard]

Speaking of Odom, he has a bruised back and is a game-time decision listed as "doubtful".

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4159470

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Battier is never going to be the go to guy on offense.  He's an extremely effective role player and the lack of Yao doesn't really change that.  He's a good to very good spot up shooter, but he's not the guy you throw the ball to and say 'go create a shot'.  Scola and Artest are the only two left who you could even remotely hope to rely on for that role in what is now a 3 game series.  And we all know how reliable Ron Ron is.  So look for lots of Scola in a scoring and half court distributing role and look for big laker defensive pressure on him.

The Rockets key will continue to be depth.  Although Brooks, Wafer, and Lowry probably won't *average* big numbers over the long haul they each can create their own scoring chances and get hot.  And if 2 of the 3 get it going along with Scola or Ron Ron look out. 

Now defensivley Yao's absence makes Gasol immediately better.  Hot Kobe plus productive Gasol spells trouble.  And if you add laker role players nailing 3s then good night.  But we've not really seen consistency out of those guys.  And how willing is kobe to share with Gasol?  Will kobe start eating his own?  Let's hope so.

[Noe]

I think looking for Scola as the first option late in a game will earn the Rockets a really good chance at a win late.  If option 2 is Battier on a kick out is yet another good thing.  I'd put the ball in Battier's hands, looking to pass into Scola to create his shot.  If it's there, go for it.  If the defense collapses, then pass out to Battier.  Option 3 is to have Brooks create a shot with dribble penetration.

The San Antonio Spurs made a living beating the Lakers using this sort of strategy: Parker dribble penetrates and looks for his shot, else pass to Ginobili (sp?) to pass into Duncan.  If the defense collapses on Duncan, then pass to cutting Ginobili.  If the entry pass is not available, then Ginobili would look to drive and pass off.  Battier does not have the ability to drive and create a shot so his option should be to pass to Brooks to create against the collapsing defense and then pass back out to Battier for a shot.

If they work this to perfection, they'll get a great look at a winning shot.  The rest of the game it's up to the defense to keep them close and for Ron Artest to do enough to keep himself effective on offense but most definitely effective as a defender (and don't do anything stupid to get himself ejected at a hostile environment in LA). 

The Rockets have a chance if LA continues to play stupid, lazy basketball.  From listening to some National radio coming out of LA, the Lakers are acting like it's no big deal, they'll just win the next two and move on.  In fact, they were talking about Denver already.

[TheWizard]

I think looking for Scola as the first option late in a game will earn the Rockets a really good chance at a win late.  If option 2 is Battier on a kick out is yet another good thing.  I'd put the ball in Battier's hands, looking to pass into Scola to create his shot.  If it's there, go for it.  If the defense collapses, then pass out to Battier.  Option 3 is to have Brooks create a shot with dribble penetration.

The San Antonio Spurs made a living beating the Lakers using this sort of strategy: Parker dribble penetrates and looks for his shot, else pass to Ginobili (sp?) to pass into Duncan.  If the defense collapses on Duncan, then pass to cutting Ginobili.  If the entry pass is not available, then Ginobili would look to drive and pass off.  Battier does not have the ability to drive and create a shot so his option should be to pass to Brooks to create against the collapsing defense and then pass back out to Battier for a shot.

If they work this to perfection, they'll get a great look at a winning shot.  The rest of the game it's up to the defense to keep them close and for Ron Artest to do enough to keep himself effective on offense but most definitely effective as a defender (and don't do anything stupid to get himself ejected at a hostile environment in LA). 

The Rockets have a chance if LA continues to play stupid, lazy basketball.  From listening to some National radio coming out of LA, the Lakers are acting like it's no big deal, they'll just win the next two and move on.  In fact, they were talking about Denver already.

Yeah, fuck the Lakers.  They act surprised anytime they lose any game, and IMO, that's the reason they never play with any intensity.  They are acting way too entitled.

AB has had a couple of really nice games.  Hopefully it continues.  Fisher really can't stay with him.  The weakness in that is that he can't finish at the rim very well, in that sense he's a lesser player than Parker.  He also isn't as good as Parker with his court vision and finding open players when he does penetrate (not yet at least).  But regardless, penetrating does draw defenders.  I agree that we need to post up Scola, he's got a sick game down there.  If he looks to make moves one-on-one, and kick it out if he gets doubled, we have a nice shot at winning 2 if the Lakers continue to play lazy, uninspired basketball.

[Limey]

Battier is never going to be the go to guy on offense.  He's an extremely effective role player and the lack of Yao doesn't really change that.  He's a good to very good spot up shooter, but he's not the guy you throw the ball to and say 'go create a shot'.  Scola and Artest are the only two left who you could even remotely hope to rely on for that role in what is now a 3 game series.  And we all know how reliable Ron Ron is.  So look for lots of Scola in a scoring and half court distributing role and look for big laker defensive pressure on him.

The Rockets key will continue to be depth.  Although Brooks, Wafer, and Lowry probably won't *average* big numbers over the long haul they each can create their own scoring chances and get hot.  And if 2 of the 3 get it going along with Scola or Ron Ron look out. 

Now defensivley Yao's absence makes Gasol immediately better.  Hot Kobe plus productive Gasol spells trouble.  And if you add laker role players nailing 3s then good night.  But we've not really seen consistency out of those guys.  And how willing is kobe to share with Gasol?  Will kobe start eating his own?  Let's hope so.

Are you Canadian?

[Limey]

The San Antonio Spurs made a living beating the Lakers using this sort of strategy: Parker dribble penetrates and looks for his shot, else pass to Ginobili (sp?) to pass into Duncan.

Spelled:  v.a.g.i.n.a.

[Ebby Calvin]

Are you Canadian?

Ba-dum-bump.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Are you Canadian?

No idea where those "A"s came from.  Typed it on my google phone, so feel free to tout the virtues of the iPhone.

[Limey]

No idea where those "A"s came from.  Typed it on my google phone, so feel free to tout the virtues of the iPhone.

I figured that, with all of them being accented like that, you were using a Nokia.

[Noe]

"As the old saying goes... We GOT OURSELVES A GAME!"

[austro]

Man, Orlando just completely screwed the pooch. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

[Astros Fan in Big D]

That was a freaking terrible first quarter.  Turnovers, jacking 3s without getting the ball in the paint, all leading to easy points for the lakers. 

Come on von and lowry.

[Savage]

That was a freaking terrible first quarter.  Turnovers, jacking 3s without getting the ball in the paint, all leading to easy points for the lakers. 

Come on von and lowry.

This is getting borderline unwatchable.

[BudGirl]

This is getting borderline unwatchable.

i thought you were posting about the astros game at first.

[Savage]

i thought you were posting about the astros game at first.

No borderline there.  I went to do laundry at 9-0.

[otterjb]

"As the old saying goes... We GOT OURSELVES A GAME!"

Great clip, love it.

Same thing applies for game 6. Lakers were a 12 pt fav tonight, so what. Get to a game 7 and all bets are off. (yes, I'm an optimist, sue me.)

[otterjb]

dude's voice is from The Wire.

Best television show of all-time.

.

[TheWizard]

What a nasty game...

[chuck]

dude's voice is from The Wire.

Best television show of all-time.

THANK YOU! I have been racking my pea-brain trying to figure out who the fuck that is. Officer Rawls. Of course! Wow, what a relief.

Yes, easily the best television show of all time. I used to think the Sopranos was good, and for a while, it was. But it's not even close.

[Noe]

Whoa, did the Rockets just decide they just weren't going to attempt to fight for this game or what?  They didn't even show up.  Must be a strategic move, you know, "back against the wall, we play better".

[ybbodeus]

They seemed to tune out within minutes of Hayes's getting his second foul.

[otterjb]

THANK YOU! I have been racking my pea-brain trying to figure out who the fuck that is. Officer Rawls. Of course! Wow, what a relief.

Yes, easily the best television show of all time. I used to think the Sopranos was good, and for a while, it was. But it's not even close.

such a good show, I agree. I'd encourage anyone that hasn't seen it to rent the first few dvd's from netflix or buy a new or used season 1. 5 seasons in all.

[Bench]

such a good show, I agree. I'd encourage anyone that hasn't seen it to rent the first few dvd's from netflix or buy a new or used season 1. 5 seasons in all.

Agreed.  Season 4 is one of the finest pieces of television in the history of the medium. 

"You gonna take care of me now, Sgt. Carver?"

[TheWizard]

Agreed.  Season 4 is one of the finest pieces of television in the history of the medium. 

"You gonna take care of me now, Sgt. Carver?"

Seasons 1 and 4 are my favorite.  The Barksdale Organization was such a fun season to watch.  I also liked the conflicts of season 3.  I mean, hell, the whole series is good. 

[chuck]

Seasons 1 and 4 are my favorite.  The Barksdale Organization was such a fun season to watch.  I also liked the conflicts of season 3.  I mean, hell, the whole series is good. 

I like 2 and 3. But I've seen 5 only once, so I need to go through that season again to have a better informed opinion on it.

Not only is the writing fantastic but the acting is unreal for television. I mean, they have damn near 100 characters that you'd know by name through the 5 seasons and only one actor struggles with his role. There are four or five roles that are played with undeniable genius.

[subnuclear]

I like 2 and 3. But I've seen 5 only once, so I need to go through that season again to have a better informed opinion on it.

The problem with season 5 is that the story line involving the fabricating reporter involves pretty much the only one-dimensional characters in the whole series (the reporter and the douchebag executive editor).    Its pretty obvious that David Simon hates this type of person (which is kind of weird since white collar office workers like these characters are probably 70% of The Wire's audience (but then again they probably hate themselves and their bosses so there's that)), but it makes a lot of the episodes that season a little boring and predictable.   On the other hand, season 5 has Omar's vendetta against Marlo, more Snoop and Chris, the Michael and Dookie storyline and the great scene where Carcetti figures out McNulty's ruse, so its still the greatest show ever (TM).

[chuck]

The problem with season 5 is that the story line involving the fabricating reporter involves pretty much the only one-dimensional characters in the whole series (the reporter and the douchebag executive editor).

I agree totally. To me the focus on the fabricating reporter was the show's only real mis-step. I like the way McNutty played the reporter and all, but you're right, the reporter and the executive editor were surprisingly one-dimensional given the complexity of virtually all of the other characters.

I'll throw in Bubbles and Clay Davis as two more story lines that are worthwhile in season 5, but of course I love anything having to do with Omar or Snoop. And the map thing, that was cool, too.

[Bench]

I'll throw in Bubbles and Clay Davis as two more story lines that are worthwhile in season 5...

Sheeeeeeeit!

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Gotta love this team.

Beat LA! Beat LA!

[otterjb]

What the Rockets have done in this series has been awesome. Love it.

[chuck]

So it comes down to one game. The Lakers have all the advantages and will likely win. But the Rockets have proven that they can beat the Lakers by doing a couple of different things. So who the hell knows? It'll take a hell of a game by the Rockets, but it's definitely possible.

[Noe]

(sideline reporter, interviewing Aaron Brooks) "Everyone said you had no chance to beat the Lakers and now you have a one game playoff.  What must you do to win?"
(Aaron Brooks) "We still don't have a chance to win."
(sideline reporter) "Okay, so you're saying that your relaxed and will just play the game?"
(Aaron Brooks) "We like it that way."

[DVauthrin]

I. LOVE. THIS. TEAM.   

This is bringing back memories of the championship teams in terms of heart and desire.    It will take an awesome game on Sunday, but I BELIEVE in this team.

[Savage]

I. LOVE. THIS. TEAM.   

This is bringing back memories of the championship teams in terms of heart and desire.    It will take an awesome game on Sunday, but I BELIEVE in this team.

I started screaming "Never underestimate the heart of a champion!" at the TV.

[DVauthrin]

I started screaming "Never underestimate the heart of a champion!" at the TV.

Great idea.  Fly Rudy T out to LA as the Rockets motivational speaker for game 7. 

[TheWizard]

This team is incredibly fun to watch.  I just can't believe how much heart they've shown.

[chuck]

Great idea.  Fly Rudy T out to LA as the Rockets motivational speaker for game 7. 

Unless I'm mistaken Rudy is still employed by the Lakers.

I think these guys have all the motivation they need.

[DVauthrin]

Unless I'm mistaken Rudy is still employed by the Lakers.

I think these guys have all the motivation they need.

True, I forgot about that.    I agree on the motivation, but if for some reason they need more, all they need to do is listen to national sports talk hosts as many of those dolts are already conceding game 7 to LA.   

Rudy will always be a rocket first, though.   

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

That was so much fun to watch last night.

[kevwun]

Season 4 was my favorite, but holy shit is it depressing.

[Limey]

What the Rockets have done in this series has been awesome. Love it.

I still have a valid and healthy hatred of the NBA, but this group of guys...can't say enough good things about 'em.

[Taras Bulba]

Anytime Phil Jackson is unhappy, I feel closer to God.

[MusicMan]

I feel like this series has been somuch like Rocky.  After the Yao injury, the attitude became "if I can just go the distance... then I'll know I wasn't just some bum from the neighborhood".

Game 6 was Apollo/Lakers staring in disbelief as Rocky/Rockets got off the mat again.

Game 7 - Phil will be screaming "just stay away from them, and you win!"

I just hope it quickly shifts to Rocky II.

[BizidyDizidy]

Post-game quote from Artest:

"Five dollar footlong is one of the best songs, that’s a hot song. You’ve got the freecreditreport.com, and then five dollar footlong comes on. When five dollar footlong comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club."

[Gizzmonic]

Post-game quote from Artest:

The five-dollar footlong sub as a club hit? Wow, I thought I was the only one that thought that way.

[TheWizard]

Ron hasn't had a game yet where he's hit his shots at a high percentage.  I hope he saved that for a game 7.

[austro]

Ron hasn't had a game yet where he's hit his shots at a high percentage.  I hope he saved that for a game 7.

That has something to do with the shots he's taking. Some of last night's shots (at least in the first half, which is all I saw), were real head-scratchers. Of course, I guess that's just his MO.

[TheWizard]

That has something to do with the shots he's taking. Some of last night's shots (at least in the first half, which is all I saw), were real head-scratchers. Of course, I guess that's just his MO.

Yeah, hit shots do have something to do with that.  It would be nice if he posted up more or drove to the hoop more... but honestly, he hasn't done that all year.  But every now and then, he'll have a scorching hot game and is hitting every ridiculous shot.  That's what I'm hoping for.

[ybbodeus]

Anytime Phil Jackson is unhappy, I feel closer to God.

Through his transcendental meditation advisor in San Luis Obispo, Phil says, "Fuck you, you God damn Cossack!"

[ybbodeus]

Oh, on the Separated at Birth discussion for Aaron Brooks, Dan Patrick added "Blend of Michael Finley and Chris Rock" to the AB conversation.

[Ebby Calvin]

Post-game quote from Artest:

He also likes Coconut Shrimp

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Oh, on the Separated at Birth discussion for Aaron Brooks, Dan Patrick added "Blend of Michael Finley and Chris Rock" to the AB conversation.

I think the ex-Temptations singer, Eddie Kendricks might have been his dad or uncle.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

He also likes Coconut Shrimp

Why is that in the Onion?

[chuck]

He also likes Coconut Shrimp

I often think about an article I read about this nutjob when he was in I think his second year with the Pacers. He and the reporter were eating lunch at a downtown Indianapolis restaurant. Ron had ordered fettuccine Alfredo. He was in the middle of a rant about something or another when the waiter happened to pass by. Ron stopped mid-rant, got the waiter's attention and demanded that the waiter go immediately to the chef and tell the chef that the food is delicious. Ron was really enjoying his fettuccine.

[Andyzipp]

I had a similar experience with RonRon at a restaurant in Sacramento a couple of years ago.  We were a good 4 tables away, but it was just like sitting next to the man.  Also, he loved the salmon.

[chuck]

I had a similar experience with RonRon at a restaurant in Sacramento a couple of years ago.  We were a good 4 tables away, but it was just like sitting next to the man.  Also, he loved the salmon.

What the hell were you doing in Sacramento?

[Gizzmonic]

What the hell were you doing in Sacramento?

Everyone knows the best mistresses are found in Sacramento!  It's on the postcard.

[Limey]

What the hell were you doing in Sacramento?

Nancy Pelosi.

[Ebby Calvin]

Refs for Game 7:

J. Crawford
M. Callahan
D. Crawford

[MikeyBoy]

Well, isn't that just fucking great.

[austro]

Refs for Game 7:

J. Crawford
M. Callahan
D. Crawford

It's so predictable that it's not even surprising anymore.

[MusicMan]

didnt matter.  bur i did chuckle ruefully when they were announced.

[Astroholic]

didnt matter.  bur i did chuckle ruefully when they were announced.

go Nuggets!

[Arky Vaughan]

I've never been prouder of a team that failed to win a series than this team in this series. The term "moral victory" is frequently overused, but it's hard not to think that of these guys taking the NBA's media darlings to seven games down as many men as they were. They're bloody heroes.

[HudsonHawk]

I've never been prouder of a team that failed to win a series than this team in this series. The term "moral victory" is frequently overused, but it's hard not to think that of these guys taking the NBA's media darlings to seven games down as many men as they were. They're bloody heroes.

No doubt.  They were pretty much sunk when Yao went down in Game 3, but they continued to battle.  It sure was a fun series to watch.

[Astroholic]

I've never been prouder of a team that failed to win a series than this team in this series. The term "moral victory" is frequently overused, but it's hard not to think that of these guys taking the NBA's media darlings to seven games down as many men as they were. They're bloody heroes.

Exactly.  And another good thing came from this, it brought back my shear hate for the freaking Lakers.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I've never been prouder of a team that failed to win a series than this team in this series. The term "moral victory" is frequently overused, but it's hard not to think that of these guys taking the NBA's media darlings to seven games down as many men as they were. They're bloody heroes.

You got that right.  Literally.  Did anyone else notice the torn jersey and visible scratches all over Scola?  Dude was getting shredded by someone on the Lakers.  Good ol Joey Crawford probably thought that was within the rules, of course...

[Astroholic]

You got that right.  Literally.  Did anyone else notice the torn jersey and visible scratches all over Scola?  Dude was getting shredded by someone on the Lakers.  Good ol Joey Crawford probably thought that was within the rules, of course...

Fuck Joey Crawford.

[Limey]

You got that right.  Literally.  Did anyone else notice the torn jersey and visible scratches all over Scola?  Dude was getting shredded by someone on the Lakers.  Good ol Joey Crawford probably thought that was within the rules, of course...

I know the team blew this game, but Joey would've screwed 'em over if he needed to.  You didn't need to look any further than his toss for the opening tip, which was pretty much a shovel pass to Gassol.  Also, the 1st foul called on a Rocket (Scola) came after just 18 seconds.

[Gizzmonic]

Exactly.  And another good thing came from this, it brought back my shear hate for the freaking Lakers.

Yeah, I had forgotten how much I hated those purple-and-gold potentates of pomposity.  I just hope Denver smacks them around something good.  K-Mart needs to have a Blue Light Special on Gasol's ribs.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Yeah, I had forgotten how much I hated those purple-and-gold potentates of pomposity.  I just hope Denver smacks them around something good.  K-Mart needs to have a Blue Light Special on Gasol's ribs.

If I were a Denver fan, I'd be lighting a candle and doing whatever other voodoo is necessary to ward off Joey Crawford and Bennett Salvatore.