Author Topic: Opening Day Starting Lineup  (Read 5097 times)

BudGirl

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Opening Day Starting Lineup
« on: March 16, 2009, 04:22:08 pm »
Who would you have batting where for Opening Day?  Assuming Rodriguez does get signed.

Me?

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Rodriguez
Pence
Blum/Boone
Oswalt

I can't believe I have Blum/Boone in the 8 spot.
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Matt

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 04:24:55 pm »
That's not a bad looking lineup.

AtascAstro

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 04:28:04 pm »
Who would you have batting where for Opening Day?  Assuming Rodriguez does get signed.

Me?

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Rodriguez
Pence
Oswalt
Blum/Boone


I can't believe I have Blum/Boone in the 8 spot.

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Bench

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 04:30:29 pm »
Who would you have batting where for Opening Day?  Assuming Rodriguez does get signed.

Me?

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Rodriguez
Pence
Blum/Boone
Oswalt

I can't believe I have Blum/Boone in the 8 spot.

I'd switch Pence and Pudge.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Limey

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 04:31:50 pm »
I believe Coop is having one of those cash-grab game show booths installed.  He will put all the non-pitcher names in there, step in and fire it up.  The first 8 he grabs get the OD nod.  In other news, a bingo tumbler has been installed in the bullpen...
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Gizzmonic

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 04:42:50 pm »
I wonder if the Pudge signing will influence Coop's placement of Bourn in the lineup.  I hope it will encourage him to put Bourne where he belongs (on top) and leave the free swingers like Pudge and Pence towards the bottom.

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 04:45:36 pm by Gizzmonic »
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Mr. Happy

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 04:44:47 pm »
I wonder if the Pudge signing will influence Coop's placement of Bourne in the lineup.  I hope it will encourage him to put Bourne where he belongs (on top) and leave the free swingers like Pudge and Pence towards the bottom.

For the umpteenth time, it's Bourn! There's no "e."
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AtascAstro

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 04:48:25 pm »
I believe Coop is having one of those cash-grab game show booths installed.  He will put all the non-pitcher names in there, step in and fire it up.  The first 8 he grabs get the OD nod.  In other news, a bingo tumbler has been installed in the bullpen...

You know, this strategy would probably have us closer to a lead-off centerfielder than we are today...sigh

Mr. Happy

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 04:55:56 pm »
Who would you have batting where for Opening Day?  Assuming Rodriguez does get signed.

Me?

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Rodriguez
Pence
Blum/Boone
Oswalt

I can't believe I have Blum/Boone in the 8 spot.

Coop's liable to switch Matsui and Bourn. I also think that Pudge will hit 7th. Having Pudge behind him will give Pence some cover.
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Bench

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 05:09:55 pm »
Coop's liable to switch Matsui and Bourn.

I wouldn't say liable, I'd say definately.  No way Bourn sniffs the leadoff spot early on in the season, he has to "learn how to lead off" before he can lead off.  In seriousness, however,  I do think that we may see Tejada or Pudge in the 2 hole sooner than later. 
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Mr. Happy

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 05:13:39 pm »
I wouldn't say liable, I'd say definately.  No way Bourn sniffs the leadoff spot early on in the season, he has to "learn how to lead off" before he can lead off.  In seriousness, however,  I do think that we may see Tejada or Pudge in the 2 hole sooner than later. 

Praytell how to learn how to do something while doing something else?
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 05:44:00 pm »
I'd switch Pence and Pudge.


I was thinking the same thing.  Hell, with a few beers, I'd be crazy enough to then switch Pence and Tejada.
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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 05:46:44 pm »

I was thinking the same thing.  Hell, with a few beers, I'd be crazy enough to then switch Pence and Tejada.

How many beers to have Pence lead off?
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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 05:47:06 pm »
Praytell how to learn how to do something while doing something else?

Osmosis, possibly, but we're still waiting on an official explanation from Coop. I can tell it's proximity-based, because he's trying to teach Bourn to learn leadoff by moving him gradually closer to it.
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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 05:48:03 pm »
Praytell how to learn how to do something while doing something else?
Perhaps "learn how to hit lead off" is Coop-code for "show us he's likely to hit higher than .229." I'd also guess that Coop regrets putting all that "he's our igniter" pressure on Bourn before last season, and is therefore unlikely to hit him #1 to start the year. But he has at least been hitting Bourn leadoff in ST, right?

So how about OD lineup of:
Matsui
Bourn
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Rodriguez
Blum
Oswalt

I'm also kind of hoping Pence shows enough improvement to hit #5. Then again, if Tejada reverts to his pre-2008 form, he'd be a great #5 hitter as well.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 05:49:08 pm »
How many beers to have Pence lead off?


There aren't enough.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

SaltyParker

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2009, 05:53:15 pm »
Bourn
Matsui
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pudge
Blum
Oswalt

HudsonHawk

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2009, 06:01:41 pm »
Bourn
Matsui
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pudge
Blum
Oswalt


There are even less beers available to make me bat Pence 3rd.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

das

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2009, 11:11:11 am »

There are even less beers available to make me bat Pence 3rd.

No kidding.  Here's what I expect on 06 April 09:
Matsui
Bourn
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pudge
Pence
Blum
Oswalt

Here's what I expect by 06 May 09
Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Pence
Pudge
Tejada
Johnson
Pitcher

Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

MusicMan

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2009, 11:13:37 am »
I expect to see:

Matsui
Tejada
Berkman
Lee
Pence
Pudge
Blum
Bourn
Oswalt

It's nothing resembling what I would do, but that's irrelevant.
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Bench

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 11:21:03 am »
I expect to see:

Matsui
Tejada
Berkman
Lee
Pence
Pudge
Blum
Bourn
Oswalt

It's nothing resembling what I would do, but that's irrelevant.

I think the same thing.
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Noe

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 11:44:39 am »
If Pudge is on the team and I was manager, here is my lineup:

1. Bourn
2. Matsui
3. Berkman
4. Lee
5. Pence
6. Tejada
7. Pudge
8. Blum
9. Pitcher

The problem with this lineup of course is the lack of confidence of the current manager with Bourn leading off and using Matsui where he hits the best.  If those two guys fail to get on, then the rest of the lineup has problems trying to do other things to score runs.  The key in my lineup suggestion is that Bourn and Matsui need to get on-base or else it falls apart.  So if they don't have confidence in that lineup structure what can they do?  Okay, this might be an alternative:

1. Matsui
2. Tejada
3. Berkman
4. Lee
5. Pence
6. Pudge
7. Blum
8. Bourn
9. Pitcher

That lineup mitigates having to rely on Matsui and Bourn together to have good OBP, but it does change a little the job of a Tejada in your lineup.  Might work to your advantage to use this lineup and see how well Miguel would do in the two hole right in front of Berkman and Lee and his propensity to hit well to right field.  Other than that, I do think Bourn and Matsui at the top is optimal but admit that neither do much to instill confidence that they should be at the top of a lineup card together.  I'd start that way and see where it took me and then adjust as the season went along.

One last thing about my lineup, Hunter Pence is being given a very important RBI role in either lineup and it kind of scares me to do that.  Not that he lacks talent, he doesn't... that kid has all the talent in the world to do the job and do it well.  He also does not lack confidence and enthusiasm, good traits for a major leaguer wanting to do well.  What he lacks is situational acumen sometimes, which means he needs to understand his role on the team beyond "grip it and rip it".  Cooper has said things he likes about Pence in terms of "grip it and rip it", but it is time to understand a job that needs to be done else the lineup is broken and any job that the four guys ahead of him do will be negated and it puts a burden on the 6 and 7 guy to do more in terms of productivity required from such a lineup position.  Pence is more of a key to the season than many want to let on, but he is.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 11:50:10 am by Noe in Austin »

Gizzmonic

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 11:57:30 am »
Kinda strange to see the Astros turn to the premiere hitting shortstop and catcher of their eras, despite their prior heavy emphasis on defense-first at those positions.  I know they're both past their prime and both "make sense" on the team, but a ponderable point nonetheless!
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MusicMan

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2009, 12:33:18 pm »
Kinda strange to see the Astros turn to the premiere hitting shortstop and catcher of their eras,

When did we get Piazza and A-Rod?
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Gizzmonic

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2009, 12:56:28 pm »
When did we get Piazza and A-Rod?

OK then, smarty pants, peen-ultimate hitting shortstop and catcher!  Still...from Everett and Ausmus, to Tejada and Pudge...that's a bit jarring!
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pots

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2009, 01:03:32 pm »
OK then, smarty pants, peen-ultimate hitting shortstop and catcher!  Still...from Everett and Ausmus, to Tejada and Pudge...that's a bit jarring!

Pudge is real good defensively.  The question is how well he works with pitchers. Which for the veteran pitchers is probably not as important.


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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2009, 01:07:41 pm »
Pudge is real good defensively.  The question is how well he works with pitchers. Which for the veteran pitchers is probably not as important.


IRod has always been mediocre defensively.  He used to have a terrific arm, but his receiving skills have always been sloppy.  He has the reputation as a great defensive catcher, but he's not really.  He was a great "throwing" catcher.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2009, 01:29:19 pm »

IRod has always been mediocre defensively.  He used to have a terrific arm, but his receiving skills have always been sloppy.  He has the reputation as a great defensive catcher, but he's not really.  He was a great "throwing" catcher.

This is right. Catchers with cannons often are mistaken for being good defensive receivers.
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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2009, 01:32:04 pm »
There was talk about Pudge consistently calling for fastballs when runners were on base so he could have a better chance to throw them out.  The problems arose with that sort of lazy approach to catching with his pitchers because they wanted to pitch, not just throw fastballs so IRod could showcase his arm.  Pudge may not be the same conceited catcher he once was, perhaps he's changed and works well with pitchers, but that was his reputation for a very long time.

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2009, 01:51:58 pm »
Roy seemed pretty happy to have him, so I'm not going to question the decision.

pots

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2009, 02:00:49 pm »
Yes, he isn't a great receiver.  Which is why I said he was real good.  Average receiver plus great arm = real good overall in my book, but words like that are subject to opinion for sure.  But then again his caught stealing rate has dropped in the last couple of years, I probably should at least drop the "real"

As for Noe's comment about the fastballs.  Man, that would be hard to prove.  Because with a fast runner on first you do want to throw a higher rate of fastballs.  I'd put it on the pitcher to call off the catcher if he feels uncomfortable with it.  Unless it's Piazza or some other noodle arm (because then you concentrate on getting the hitter out because fastball or no, Piazza isn't likely to get them anyways).  Did Pudge get caught saying that showcasing his arm was more important?  Is this just rumor?

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2009, 02:14:59 pm »
As for Noe's comment about the fastballs.  Man, that would be hard to prove.

It was an accusation his own pitchers made about him.  I'm just the messenger.

Quote
Because with a fast runner on first you do want to throw a higher rate of fastballs.

Huh?

Quote
I'd put it on the pitcher to call off the catcher if he feels uncomfortable with it.

They do.  However, if you gain a reputation of not working well with pitchers, it becomes an reputation all pitchers start to complain about.  Woody Williams did not like throwing to Quintero because of some of the same things and basically Q became someone who was not gaining any momentum to get a major league gig because of it.  It wasn't until his last stint in AAA did Quintero start to listen that his job is to *work* with pitchers, not work against them.

Quote
Unless it's Piazza or some other noodle arm (because then you concentrate on getting the hitter out because fastball or no, Piazza isn't likely to get them anyways).  Did Pudge get caught saying that showcasing his arm was more important?  Is this just rumor?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.  A reputation isn't about what you say, it's about what you do.

pots

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2009, 05:54:02 pm »
Wow you guys suck.  Here I was under the happy illusion that Rodriguez was at least a real good defender and any offense he brought to the table was a bonus.  Now I realize he isn't real good or good or even average anymore.  I just haven't seen him play much over the last 5-6 years.  Looking at the numbers, the last 4 years he's been the worst catcher at blocking pitches. And given the drop off in caught stealing his arm might not even be better then average.  Sheesh, hope he hits.


As for the fastball thing.  Thought this was cool:
http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=141
Only 1 in 20 breaking pitches are changed to fast balls with speed at first.  Less then I thought.  Though I wish did a little more breakdown.  Like less than 2 outs and close games.  I assume that game situation would dictate even more to lean fastball with speed on first.  Could not find any information on fastball ratio with Pudge behind the plate.  Given that no one denies the claim and every place you go the idea is confirmed.  It truly looks like Pudge is not paying attention to game situations.  Would of loved to see some numbers though. 

On sort of a side note, they interviewed Hampton after the game and asked him about the young catchers.  He seemed smitten with them with their willingness to learn and work with him between games and innings to discuss startegy.  Maybe Hampy gets Q?

HudsonHawk

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Re: Opening Day Starting Lineup
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2009, 05:57:01 pm »
Yes, he isn't a great receiver.  Which is why I said he was real good.  Average receiver plus great arm = real good overall in my book, but words like that are subject to opinion for sure.  But then again his caught stealing rate has dropped in the last couple of years, I probably should at least drop the "real"

He's actually a pretty poor receiver.

Quote
As for Noe's comment about the fastballs.  Man, that would be hard to prove.  Because with a fast runner on first you do want to throw a higher rate of fastballs.  I'd put it on the pitcher to call off the catcher if he feels uncomfortable with it.  Unless it's Piazza or some other noodle arm (because then you concentrate on getting the hitter out because fastball or no, Piazza isn't likely to get them anyways).  Did Pudge get caught saying that showcasing his arm was more important?  Is this just rumor?


I dont' know about Rodriguez's reputation as a fastball caller, but you do not want to necessary throw more fastballs just because there is a runner on 1B.  You want to prevent runs, that generally means getting the hitter out.  You throw what you think will get him out, whether that be a fastball, curveball, slider, changeup, what have you.  Sometimes you want to throw something to increase your chances of getting a fly ball or a ground ball or a strikeout, but having runners on base certainly does not dictate that you want to throw more fastballs.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.