Peavy considers the AL wussified candyasses

[pravata]

Cause pitchers don't hit,

San Diego Union Tribune

"Jake has a strong preference to stay in the National League,” (agent) Axelrod (yeah that one) said. “It is hypothetical, but Jake, by any measure, has had a great deal of success in the National League. He has a comfort level with knowing how to approach hitters here.”

Axelrod said Peavy also considers his hitting ability an advantage in the NL, because he is a better hitter than many opposing pitchers. Peavy batted .265 last season, one year after batting .233. ...

Axelrod made one concrete stipulation to any trade scenarios: “Jake would only approve a trade to a team with a solid chance of winning and a winning tradition. Those teams in the National League may be in locations that are more acceptable, or would be.”

He said “the ability or opportunity to win is very important to Jake,....”

Among the cities Axelrod mentioned were Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles and St. Louis.

“My first choice is to be in San Diego, with a team that is going to do everything they can do to be a postseason team and try to win a World Series,” said Peavy, who received full no-trade powers as part of the three-year, $52 million extension signed last December.

“That's first and foremost what I want to happen, and why I signed this contract – because I love San Diego,” he said.

Said Axelrod, ... If this is a true rebuilding situation, it doesn't make sense to Jake or the Padres for him to be here.”

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/14/padres-peavy1420020/?padres

[MusicMan]

Atlanta is the most likely of that bunch, as the Pads won't want to deal within their division.

[Reuben]

FA RF's (2009 age in parentheses):
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Gabe Kapler (33)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Fernando Tatis (34)
Brad Wilkerson (32)

[juliogotay]

Atlanta is the most likely of that bunch, as the Pads won't want to deal within their division.

LA is the only team of that bunch in their division.

[MusicMan]

The other 3 don't have the prospects to get it done/.

[juliogotay]

The other 3 don't have the prospects to get it done/.

Does Houston?  I'd love to have Peavy but I don't see what we could offer them to get it done.

[Mr. Happy]

Does Houston?  I'd love to have Peavy but I don't see what we could offer them to get it done.

Not in my view, but what do I know?

[Jacksonian]

Does Houston?  I'd love to have Peavy but I don't see what we could offer them to get it done.

I think this had been discussed in another recently.  In short, not likely.

[Taras Bulba]

Not in my view, but what do I know?

I'm always fascinated by deals that GMs pull off that I would have never guessed possible.  That's my only source of hope when it comes to Peavy.  Otherwise, MM's contention seems most likely.

[Reuben]

I think this had been discussed in another recently.  In short, not likely.

And I was trying to hint at what someone else brought up in that other thread. Pence. + (fill in the blank with various AA/AAA pitchers). Not likely, I know, but not completely unfathomable either.

[MusicMan]

Pence. + (fill in the blank with various AA/AAA pitchers).

Look, I'm a man.  I'm 33.  I'm a klutz, and an accountant to boot.

But I would literally do backflips over that.

[pravata]

Look, I'm a man.  I'm 33.  I'm a klutz, and an accountant to boot.

But I would literally do backflips over that.

The good part of the article is this part

"If the Padres decide to trade Peavy, getting full value may be difficult as well if Peavy is unwilling to approve a trade to the American League."

Peavy just cut out half the teams in baseball as a trading partner for the Padres and he has a full no trade clause.  They're left with the crappy teams, the NL teams, the teams that have no prospects, ask anybody. 

[pravata]

and, Ortiz blogged, "Oswalt, who will head to Michigan Tuesday to hunt with Jake Peavy, ...."

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

and, Ortiz blogged, "Oswalt, who will head to Michigan Tuesday to hunt with Jake Peavy, ...."

...at the ranch they own with a certain injury-prone Brewer hurler.

[das]

...at the ranch they own with a certain injury-prone Brewer hurler.

Oswalt *did* say last week that the team was just 2 or 3 players away.

Oswalt, Peavy, Sheets.  What is it you guys say?  "I'll be in my bunk"?

[sporadic]

Oswalt *did* say last week that the team was just 2 or 3 players away.

Oswalt, Peavy, Sheets.  What is it you guys say?  "I'll be in my bunk"?

I love it, even if it is only a dream!  What a nice offseason thought to take to the bunk.  I have been in the bunk quite a few times over The Cowboys picking up Roy Williams for what amounts to a #25 pick or later plus trading down two late round picks. 

[MusicMan]

Oswalt, Peavy, Sheets.  What is it you guys say?  "I'll be in my bunk"?

Did Congress pass a $1B Astros Pitching Bailout Rescue Plan that I missed?

[subnuclear]

Did Congress pass a $1B Astros Pitching Bailout Rescue Plan that I missed?

If Drayton can afford Clemens and Pettitte, he can afford Peavy and Sheets. 

[Limey]

If Drayton can afford Clemens and Pettitte, he can afford Peavy and Sheets. 

Bingo!  Contrary to what the Chronicle bloggers would have you believe, Uncle Dratie has busted his budget on numerous occasions for the appropriate player.

[MusicMan]

I'm just not sure that Sheets or Peavy will fill the seats the way Racket did.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'm just not sure that Sheets or Peavy will fill the seats the way Racket did.

Perhaps not initially, but if the Ws start piling up...

[Jacksonian]

Perhaps not initially, but if the Ws start piling up...

IMO on the bizzare chance he did get both those guys, the buzz around the team esp at the start of the season would be sufficient to generate sell-outs.  Piling up the wins would just ensure the sell-outs continued.

[Astroholic]

IMO on the bizzare chance he did get both those guys, the buzz around the team esp at the start of the season would be sufficient to generate sell-outs.  Piling up the wins would just ensure the sell-outs continued.

Just hope for Clemens/Pettitte not Drabek/Swindell

[MusicMan]

Just hope for Clemens/Pettitte not Drabek/Swindell

Hate you.

[das]

Just hope for Clemens/Pettitte not Drabek/Swindell

Drabek/Swindell was based on hope.  Clemens/Pettitte was based on understanding.  Peavy/Sheets would mirror the latter even if Sheets is a known 160ip guy.

I say we keep this banter up long enough to generate a real internet rumor, forcing The Wallet to react to the massive fan pressure and throw his $$ at the concept.

[Mr. Happy]

Just hope for Clemens/Pettitte not Drabek/Swindell

You. Just. Had. To. Ruin. A. Great. Day.

[Astroholic]

You. Just. Had. To. Ruin. A. Great. Day.

It will be a great day when those guys get traded for/signed.  Right now it is just wishful thinking.  BTW- Fuck the cubs

[Noe]

Bingo!  Contrary to what the Chronicle bloggers would have you believe, Uncle Dratie has busted his budget on numerous occasions for the appropriate player.

ROI, my maign... R.O.I. (and a desire from said players to come here, else why would McLane even bother?)

[Noe]

I'm just not sure that Sheets or Peavy will fill the seats the way Racket did.

Good point, but can I submit something to consider:

1. The 2005 experience (and 2004) is not too far removed from the minds of this city.  The bump one gets from a team's first world championship push is huge.  It is similar to the push the Rockets enjoyed after actually winning back-to-back championships.  Filling seats is no longer incumbent upon the players as much as it incumbent upon both player name contributes to chances to win and the memory of a winning season and the all the fun therein.  Heck, even the bump the old Houston Oilers got from going to the AFL championship versus the juggernaut of the Pittsburgh Steelers was the precursor of all the Luv Ya Blue hysteria for years after (and then the House of Pain).

2. When McLane ponyed up 100 mil for Carlos Lee, I was not sure it was a sound investment for the very same reasons you're citing now.  Then the hysteria of little fan clubs took hold and lo and behold the best (or worse depending on your perspective) were "Los Caballitos").  How could a Panamanian born ballplayer garner such a following here in Houston?  I don't know, but it has and I believe it's symbiotic to Lee's productivity.  He feels wanted and appreciated here, so he's relaxed and producing well.  Did McLane know this would happen?  I'm not he knew to this extent, but I suspect he had some semblance of understanding the ramification of signing a player he felt the team needed (replacement for Bagwell if you will), a player willing to come here and how it was still fresh in the mind of fans that this was a team not far removed from 2005.

So is McLane stupid?  No, he's not.  Is he blind when he spends?  No, he's not.  But those who say they're in the know tend to misread all the peripherals surrounding the team and the owner that they really paint an incomplete and yes somewhat misleading picture for fans.  So while McLane and the Astros baseball people may have some disagreements in terms of the actual players and how to spend, it is not uncommon for McLane to realize business potential, ROI and fans and think that the baseball decision to go with a Lee (and perhaps now a Sheets) is not wrong, but very right.  And somehow, it tends to work to a degree.

[BudGirl]

And I was trying to hint at what someone else brought up in that other thread. Pence. + (fill in the blank with various AA/AAA pitchers). Not likely, I know, but not completely unfathomable either.

pence and paulino?

[legs_of_eggs]

Pence, Wiggy and Wandy with throw-ins from both teams might do the trick

[Reuben]

pence and paulino?

probably not enough... throw in guys like Norris, Sergio Perez? Brad James? I'll leave it to the Bus Ride experts to speculate (or burst my bubble if they see fit). While we're at it, since the Padres seem to just want to cut payroll as much as they can, let's get them to throw in Brian Giles, whom they tried to trade to Boston a couple months ago, to replace Pence in RF.

edit: they were also uncertain whether they wanted to exercise Giles' $9 mil option for 2009 or pay a $3 mil buyout.

[roadrunner]

2. When McLane ponyed up 100 mil for Carlos Lee, I was not sure it was a sound investment for the very same reasons you're citing now.  Then the hysteria of little fan clubs took hold and lo and behold the best (or worse depending on your perspective) were "Los Caballitos"). 

If Carlos Lee is the reason those guys are dressing up in puma outfits in the outfield, then I want Lee traded immediately.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

If Carlos Lee is the reason those guys are dressing up in puma outfits in the outfield, then I want Lee traded immediately.

If only they were guys.  Then I would have no moral crisis about smacking some sense into them.  But as last night's South Park showed, bad things happen when you pick fights with girls.

[Jacksonian]

probably not enough... throw in guys like Norris, Sergio Perez? Brad James? I'll leave it to the Bus Ride experts to speculate (or burst my bubble if they see fit). While we're at it, since the Padres seem to just want to cut payroll as much as they can, let's get them to throw in Brian Giles, whom they tried to trade to Boston a couple months ago, to replace Pence in RF.

edit: they were also uncertain whether they wanted to exercise Giles' $9 mil option for 2009 or pay a $3 mil buyout.

Trouble with all of that is we don't know what value SD places on any of the Astros players.  But, if it's me trying to get value for Peavy:  Pence, Paulino, Nieve, perhaps some combination of (Towles, Manzella, Sutton, Iorg, Einertson, Norris, DeLome).  I'd be looking at a 5 for 1.  If they throw in Giles then maybe 6 for 2.  I'd have to be pretty sure that one of those beyond Pence is going to be a regular major leaguer.  None of these are worse than near-major league ready except DeLome. 

It'd be more doable IMO if SD thinks Towles can be a solid major league catcher.  In that case, Pence, Paulino, Nieve, Towles, and Sutton.  Throw in Einertson if Giles is included.  But if SD doesn't think highly of those guys beyond Pence then the Astros have nothing.

[Reuben]

Trouble with all of that is we don't know what value SD places on any of the Astros players.  But, if it's me trying to get value for Peavy:  Pence, Paulino, Nieve, perhaps some combination of (Towles, Manzella, Sutton, Iorg, Einertson, Norris, DeLome).  I'd be looking at a 5 for 1.  If they throw in Giles then maybe 6 for 2.  I'd have to be pretty sure that one of those beyond Pence is going to be a regular major leaguer.  None of these are worse than near-major league ready except DeLome. 

It'd be more doable IMO if SD thinks Towles can be a solid major league catcher.  In that case, Pence, Paulino, Nieve, Towles, and Sutton.  Throw in Einertson if Giles is included.  But if SD doesn't think highly of those guys beyond Pence then the Astros have nothing.

Thank you for humoring us. It also of course depends what they think of those other teams' offers- I have no idea who the Braves have or what they would offer (although, the Texiera trade could be the start of a rebuilding process for them). And if the Astros consider Pence untouchable then it is all a moot point.

[das]

Thank you for humoring us. It also of course depends what they think of those other teams' offers- I have no idea who the Braves have or what they would offer (although, the Texiera trade could be the start of a rebuilding process for them). And if the Astros consider Pence untouchable then it is all a moot point.

Astros management is too smart to not consider moving Pence + others if it was ever presented as an option.  Recent history says that McLane is letting the baseball people (Wade et. al.) make the personnel decisions.

[VirtualBob]

Trouble with all of that is we don't know what value SD places on any of the Astros players. 

Please recall ... this is the team that took Moberg, Jason Lane and Timmah off our hands.

[das]

Please recall ... this is the team that took Moberg, Jason Lane and Timmah off our hands.

Sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh......

[pravata]

Padres talking to the Braves

A person familiar with the talks said the Braves and Padres have discussed a potential blockbuster trade that would bring the Alabama native to Atlanta for a package that would include at least three Braves prospects.

The person familiar with the talks said if Peavy is traded, it could be as soon as this week or as late as after the December winter meetings. Baseball’s general managers meetings are Nov. 3-6 at Dana Point, Calif.

Five-tool outfielder Jason Heyward and 17-year-old pitcher Julio Teheran are considered close to untouchable prospects, and pitcher Tommy Hanson and slugging first baseman Freddie Freeman might not be far behind in terms of being off limits.

The Braves also would like to keep elite center-field prospects Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez, possibly envisioning a future outfield of Heyward and Schafer flanking speedy Hernandez.

It remains to be seen whether the Padres would deal Peavy without getting at least one of those prospects. (I've seen that the Padres want a centerfielder)

The Braves could offer a package built around a middle infielder — Yunel Escobar or Kelly Johnson? — and prospects from among catcher Tyler Flowers, pitchers Charlie Morton and Kris Medlen, or others.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/10/16/braves_peavy_trade.html

LA Media speculation,

Trading for Peavy would probably force Colletti to break up the Dodgers' nucleus of young players that includes catcher Russell Martin, first baseman James Loney, and outfielders Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier. Colletti says he intends to keep the group intact.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-dodgers17.-2008oct17,0,2000691.story

[Matt]

Padres talking to the Braves

A person familiar with the talks said the Braves and Padres have discussed a potential blockbuster trade that would bring the Alabama native to Atlanta for a package that would include at least three Braves prospects.

The person familiar with the talks said if Peavy is traded, it could be as soon as this week or as late as after the December winter meetings. Baseball’s general managers meetings are Nov. 3-6 at Dana Point, Calif.

Five-tool outfielder Jason Heyward and 17-year-old pitcher Julio Teheran are considered close to untouchable prospects, and pitcher Tommy Hanson and slugging first baseman Freddie Freeman might not be far behind in terms of being off limits.

The Braves also would like to keep elite center-field prospects Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez, possibly envisioning a future outfield of Heyward and Schafer flanking speedy Hernandez.

It remains to be seen whether the Padres would deal Peavy without getting at least one of those prospects. (I've seen that the Padres want a centerfielder)

The Braves could offer a package built around a middle infielder — Yunel Escobar or Kelly Johnson? — and prospects from among catcher Tyler Flowers, pitchers Charlie Morton and Kris Medlen, or others.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/10/16/braves_peavy_trade.html

LA Media speculation,

Trading for Peavy would probably force Colletti to break up the Dodgers' nucleus of young players that includes catcher Russell Martin, first baseman James Loney, and outfielders Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier. Colletti says he intends to keep the group intact.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-dodgers17.-2008oct17,0,2000691.story

Dana Point eh? I'm about 5 miles from there.  That's interesting they're having it there.

[jaklewein]

Oswalt *did* say last week that the team was just 2 or 3 players away.

Oswalt, Peavy, Sheets.  What is it you guys say?  "I'll be in my bunk"?

I'd be more than happy with Oswalt, Peavy, Wolf.

[MusicMan]

But, if it's me trying to get value for Peavy:  Pence, Paulino, Nieve, perhaps some combination of (Towles, Manzella, Sutton, Iorg, Einertson, Norris, DeLome). 

Perhaps Padres ponder peddling Peavy para Pence, Paulino, Perez, plus PTBNL?

[JimR]

Perhaps Padres ponder peddling Peavy para Pence, Paulino, Perez, plus PTBNL?

probably

[VirtualBob]

probably

puke

[JackAstro]

Five-tool outfielder Jason Heyward and 17-year-old pitcher Julio Teheran are considered close to untouchable prospects, and pitcher Tommy Hanson and slugging first baseman Freddie Freeman might not be far behind in terms of being off limits.

The Braves also would like to keep elite center-field prospects Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez, possibly envisioning a future outfield of Heyward and Schafer flanking speedy Hernandez.

So, the Braves could be interested in a "blockbuster" for Peavy, but they'd prefer not to part with any of their 6 top prospects? I assume the Pads should be fine with that, start drawing up the paperwork.

[Taras Bulba]

So, the Braves could be interested in a "blockbuster" for Peavy, but they'd prefer not to part with any of their 6 top prospects? I assume the Pads should be fine with that, start drawing up the paperwork.

This is also the time of year when it becomes painfully obvious that what writers  think of an organization's prospects is a little different than that of interested clubs.  Those darned baseball men thinking their own thoughts and such.

[pravata]

I'm sure this is going to fly by the idiots who laughed at Houston for making trades and trying to win at the end of the season, but this is what that kind of behavior leads to,

Peavy "Houston is one of those teams that makes a conscious effort to win every year. When you guys (the Astros) traded for Randy Wolf, you guys were actually farther back in the division race than we were in our division."

"That says a lot about your commitment to winning. The Astros have a team owner (Drayton McLane) who is passionate about winning. Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6064564.html

[JackAstro]

I'm sure this is going to fly by the idiots who laughed at Houston for making trades and trying to win at the end of the season, but this is what that kind of behavior leads to,

Peavy "Houston is one of those teams that makes a conscious effort to win every year. When you guys (the Astros) traded for Randy Wolf, you guys were actually farther back in the division race than we were in our division."

"That says a lot about your commitment to winning. The Astros have a team owner (Drayton McLane) who is passionate about winning. Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6064564.html

Pence + I Don't Give a Flying Fuck Just Make It Happen Please Please Please Please

Damn you, Jake Peavy. Damn you for giving me hope.

[pravata]

Pence + I Don't Give a Flying Fuck Just Make It Happen Please Please Please Please

Damn you, Jake Peavy. Damn you for giving me hope.

Unfortunately Peavy isn't who the Astros have to convince. 

[strosrays]

Trouble with all of that is we don't know what value SD places on any of the Astros players.  But, if it's me trying to get value for Peavy:  Pence, Paulino, Nieve, perhaps some combination of (Towles, Manzella, Sutton, Iorg, Einertson, Norris, DeLome).  I'd be looking at a 5 for 1.  If they throw in Giles then maybe 6 for 2.  I'd have to be pretty sure that one of those beyond Pence is going to be a regular major leaguer.  None of these are worse than near-major league ready except DeLome. 

It'd be more doable IMO if SD thinks Towles can be a solid major league catcher.  In that case, Pence, Paulino, Nieve, Towles, and Sutton.  Throw in Einertson if Giles is included.  But if SD doesn't think highly of those guys beyond Pence then the Astros have nothing.

Damn, this is like TTB, except with information, too.

[JackAstro]

Unfortunately Peavy isn't who the Astros have to convince. 

Are the Astros allowed to just send a giant bag of cash along in a deal? I'm only sort of kidding.

[pravata]

Are the Astros allowed to just send a giant bag of cash along in a deal? I'm only sort of kidding.

I think so.  But I think there's this "gentleman's wink" that it can't be too much cash.  They can't be seen as just buying the guy from the Padres.

[JackAstro]

I think so.  But I think there's this "gentleman's wink" that it can't be too much cash.  They can't be seen as just buying the guy from the Padres.

God forbid. Appearances and all that. Why, my monocle nearly fell out at the mere thought of such a scandal.

[Jacksonian]

Damn, this is like TTB, except with information, too.

I'll take that as a backhanded bareknuckled compliment.  Thanks?

[Amy]

I think so.  But I think there's this "gentleman's wink" that it can't be too much cash.  They can't be seen as just buying the guy from the Padres.

Could that be a situation where Drayton's close relationship with his Buddy finally pays off?  Nah, we'd probably just get fucked again.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

The one thing that gives me hope here is that the Pads have a history of over-valuing (or at least taking risks) on Astros players who couldn't be unloaded elsewhere.  i.e. Ensberg, Lane.  Maybe they've learned their lesson since then, but hopefully not.

[Taras Bulba]

The one thing that gives me hope here is that the Pads have a history of over-valuing (or at least taking risks) on Astros players who couldn't be unloaded elsewhere.  i.e. Ensberg, Lane.  Maybe they've learned their lesson since then, but hopefully not.

They really didn't have to give up much for either, so it wasn't much of a risk. 

[cougar]

Are the Astros allowed to just send a giant bag of cash along in a deal? I'm only sort of kidding.

Only if it has the huge dollar sign on the side to make it an official bag of cash.  Hey, cartoons taught me all I need to know about finance.  Also taught the federal government all it knows about the subject as well.

[JackAstro]

Only if it has the huge dollar sign on the side to make it an official bag of cash.  Hey, cartoons taught me all I need to know about finance.  Also taught the federal government all it knows about the subject as well.

Exactly. Who could possibly resist?

[pravata]

... the Padres are in the process of gauging interest ...and if they were to identify an offer that they find acceptable, perhaps for a couple of pitchers and a center fielder, officials with other teams sense that San Diego would move quickly to complete a deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3649201

[strosrays]

I'll take that as a backhanded bareknuckled compliment.  Thanks?

Absolutely.  Maybe it isn't quite as byzantine as some of the trade scenarios Todd can conjure up, but it is close.  I just wasn't ready for quasi-empirical evidence to back it up.

[MikeyBoy]

... the Padres are in the process of gauging interest ...and if they were to identify an offer that they find acceptable, perhaps for a couple of pitchers and a center fielder, officials with other teams sense that San Diego would move quickly to complete a deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3649201

Pence has played center field. He even had a CF next to his name last year, so it's kind of official, don't just take my word on it.

[Jacksonian]

Absolutely.  Maybe it isn't quite as byzantine as some of the trade scenarios Todd can conjure up, but it is close.  I just wasn't ready for quasi-empirical evidence to back it up.

And don't forget the ass-covering caveats.  You can never go wrong with a good caveat.

[Reuben]

Has anyone figured out, by the way, exactly why the Padres are so eager to get rid of Peavy? Are they in such a hurry to have a Marlins-style fire sale? Just seems odd, all this talk about "sources" thinking a deal "likely" will happen before the trade deadline next year, then probably by the winter meetings, then probably in the next week or two. Has someone kidnapped Kevin Towers' family or something?

[Amy]

Has anyone figured out, by the way, exactly why the Padres are so eager to get rid of Peavy? Are they in such a hurry to have a Marlins-style fire sale? Just seems odd, all this talk about "sources" thinking a deal "likely" will happen before the trade deadline next year, then probably by the winter meetings, then probably in the next week or two. Has someone kidnapped Kevin Towers' family or something?

Maybe it's bullshit, like the Oswalt trade rumor that the mediots drag out every time the Astros have a disappointing first half.  In other words, every year.  Surely Peavy is too good a pitcher to be allowed to waste away in a backwater like San Diego.

[Hornstros]

Whatever the case may be, the Stros need to do what they need to do to get this deal done provided the Padres actually are wanting to deal Peavy sooner than later.   The fact that Peavy is under contract for the next 4 years and we don't any "untouchable" prospects, why wouldn't they do what they need to do?

The bigger question amounts to what the budget is for the next few years as far as the possible signing of Valverde, Wolf, etc.  Sans the extension of Valverde and signing of Wolf, the 1-2 punch of Oswalt-Peavy would hardly be matched by any team.  The idea of having Oswalt-Peavy at 1-2 is something that is normally fathomed as a result of a trade midseason.  The fact that we'd have these 2 guys for the whole year is just ridiculous if something was able to made.  I just can't help but think of those interviews with Stros hitters the past couple years during the 10 second intervals on FSN when they were asked who was the toughest pitcher.   Seemed like a good third of them answered Peavy...regardless this duo seems better than any duo of recent memory for Houston

[jonbloozy]

Maybe it's bullshit, like the Oswalt trade rumor that the mediots drag out every time the Astros have a disappointing first half.  In other words, every year.  Surely Peavy is too good a pitcher to be allowed to waste away in a backwater like San Diego.

Backwater, eh?  I take it you've never been there.

I'll surmise you're referring to the San Diego Padres organization.  In the last ten, they've had a couple of good years.  Even in bad years, Peavy still carries games and he ignites the Padres fanbase more so than any other pitcher (except maybe Hoffman).  I have a hunch SD is just testing the waters, but if McLane has a legitimate opportunity to pick up Peavy, it will be money well spent.

[Amy]

Backwater, eh?  I take it you've never been there.

I'll surmise you're referring to the San Diego Padres organization.  In the last ten, they've had a couple of good years.  Even in bad years, Peavy still carries games and he ignites the Padres fanbase more so than any other pitcher (except maybe Hoffman).  I have a hunch SD is just testing the waters, but if McLane has a legitimate opportunity to pick up Peavy, it will be money well spent.

"Backwater" in the sense that it's not NYC, Boston or Chicago.  The national media sees Houston the same way and its the fourth largest city in America.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I don't buy that this is a bullshit rumor of the Oswalt caliber, at least not like the first time that we went through that nonsense, when Roy was supposedly headed to Ballmer for Miggy.  Consider what we do know:

• JJdO got Peavy to go on the record discussing the rumor, and his interest in Houston.
• Axelrod is talking openly about it. 
• The Friars' management is anonymously commenting on the story to ESPN, which is pretty different from the Mets saying that they talked to the 'stros about Roy.  The team dangling the big trading chip talking about trade possibilities seems to me a far cry from a team executive trotting out his Christmas wish list and hoping his opposite picks up the phone.

As rumors go, I think this passes the smell test.  But there's a big difference between shopping and selling, and the Padres could still just hold onto Peavy and play this game again next year.

[otterjb]

If it's remotely possible, then make it happen, Drayton.

[MusicMan]

Pence + I Don't Give a Flying Fuck Just Make It Happen Please Please Please Please

Damn you, Jake Peavy. Damn you for giving me hope.

JA to Peavy: "Hate you."

[jonbloozy]

Footer don't think so

[Reuben]

Footer don't think so

She's just trying to keep our hopes/expectations from running wild. Kevin Towers doing his part as well:

The Astros inquired about Peavy in July and appeal to the pitcher, whose close friends include Astros ace Roy Oswalt. The Houston Chronicle on Friday quoted Peavy as saying he would accept a trade to the Astros.

But that likely would require a second trade partner, because the Astros are not deep in high-quality, inexpensive pitching. “We don't match up well with them,” Towers said.

The Braves, Peavy's favorite team while he was growing up in Alabama, could be a better fit because they have more pitching to offer.

Link
Shit. OK, which AL team could they swap Pence to for pitching prospects? Yankees? Rays? Angels?

[jaklewein]

Footer don't think so

Well...I'm still a believer that Bourn will be able to be our CF of the future, that said...if the Padres like'm, I put'm on the next bus out to SD.  I'm with the rest of ya...do whatever it takes to lock up Peavy.

[strosrays]

The Astros inquired about Peavy in July and appeal to the pitcher, whose close friends include Astros ace Roy Oswalt. The Houston Chronicle on Friday quoted Peavy as saying he would accept a trade to the Astros.

But that likely would require a second trade partner, because the Astros are not deep in high-quality, inexpensive pitching. . .

If the Astros were deep in high-quality, inexpensive pitching, they wouldn't need to pursue Peavy, or any other pitcher.

[Ron Brand]

We may be down to hoping for some real good Drayton Fu.

[MikeyBoy]

We may be down to hoping for some real good Drayton Fu.

U FOO

[Gizzmonic]

Not sure if this is relevant, but I heard on the MLB channel on XM this morning that the Padres stated they were not considering trading Adrian Gonzalez.  Maybe the fire sale talk is a bit premature.

[pravata]

Latest,

Bernie Miklasz
I talked to multiple sources in the organization who downplayed the Cardinals-Peavy connection. I was told that the Cardinals and Padres have had only one conversation concerning Peavy, and the discussion didn’t lead to any follow-up negotiations. And so the chances of the Cardinals getting Peavy appear to be pretty cold right now.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/2008/10/cardinals-not-a-player-for-peavy/

Footer gets crazy,

(Instead of her usual "no chance", she explores the possibilites)

Here's what the Astros have that would be of any interest to other teams ...Right-hander Bud Norris. Right-hander Brad James. Left-hander Sergio Perez. Position-wise, the only player who would receive any consideration is Hunter Pence. And maybe outfielder Brian Bogusevic and third baseman Chris Johnson, although they're not yet considered hot commodities....(back to realistically)  here are the players I look into who are already at the big league level: Pence and maybe Wesley Wright. That's it.

[JackAstro]

First comment I saw at the end of Footer's mailbag, referencing Peavy:

"...Offer them Bourn, Backe , Rodriguez, Saccomanno, And maybe Newhan."

Oh Sweet Lord Baby Jesus. There has to be a way to hide the comments by default, right?

[MusicMan]

In exchange for your crumpled $20 bill, I offer you these 5 crisp $1 bills.

[TheWizard]

First comment I saw at the end of Footer's mailbag, referencing Peavy:

"...Offer them Bourn, Backe , Rodriguez, Saccomanno, And maybe Newhan."

Oh Sweet Lord Baby Jesus. There has to be a way to hide the comments by default, right?

That guy is a fool.  Just offer them Wandy and Wiggy straight up for Peavy.  They'll bite... oh, they'll bite.

[homer]

First comment I saw at the end of Footer's mailbag, referencing Peavy:

"...Offer them Bourn, Backe , Rodriguez, Saccomanno, And maybe Newhan."

Oh Sweet Lord Baby Jesus. There has to be a way to hide the comments by default, right?

Yeah, Newhan is too much.

[Jacksonian]

Footer gets crazy,

(Instead of her usual "no chance", she explores the possibilites)

Here's what the Astros have that would be of any interest to other teams ...Right-hander Bud Norris. Right-hander Brad James. Left-hander Sergio Perez. Position-wise, the only player who would receive any consideration is Hunter Pence. And maybe outfielder Brian Bogusevic and third baseman Chris Johnson, although they're not yet considered hot commodities....(back to realistically)  here are the players I look into who are already at the big league level: Pence and maybe Wesley Wright. That's it.

Are we sure she wrote that?  To ignore still power arms, assuming healthy, Paulino and Nieve isn't thinking of the possibilities.  And Sergio Perez is a righty.

[Jacksonian]

Are we sure she wrote that?  To ignore still power arms, assuming healthy, Paulino and Nieve isn't thinking of the possibilities.  And Sergio Perez is a righty.

Never mind.  Read the entire article dumbass.

[subnuclear]

Never mind.  Read the entire article dumbass.

Be nice to the Clarks!

[Jacksonian]

Be nice to the Clarks!

Contributor.  $0.
Pope.  $0.
Dumbass.  <$0.
Most time online and needing a life.  <<$0.

Poster child for SnS.  Priceless.

[Froback]

Back from deep recesses of nothingness and my first topic to read is this....

The idea of landing Peavy, to me, has always been a never-gonna-happen-in-a-million-years dream, ever since I learned about how close Roy and Jake were.  Now the idea of it being one tick above that level now, has my fan-brain going crazy.

But looking at the common names being thrown out, I got to thinking what each guy is perceived as:

Pence: I think he is a nice player who shows real promise at times, but mostly is highly erratic, but plays the game with passion.  It depends on which side your scouts sit as to his real value, but he is definitely the highest valued trade chip the Astros "might" have.

Wigginton: I think he is an above average 3B, who has the prevailing perception he is an average MLB 3B.  Basically meaning those who have seen him play, regularly, think more of him than those that have not.

Wandy: I am throwing him in, because if you are getting Peavy, you probably have to give up more than just the prospects the Astros have currently.  Wandy has shown signs of brilliance and signs of being Jose Lima.  In my opinion he seems to be showing more of the former than the later, but until he is more consistent from start to start, you have to be willing to part with him for Peavy.

As for the minor league pitchers, it really depends on which scouts you talk to as to the "projectability" of them.  And as we have learned, no scout is 100% correct, and very few ever agree 100%.  So who knows the real value placed on them by other organizations.

I think if they are looking for 2 high-level pitching prospects in any deal for Peavy the Astros are likely out, but if you could swing Pence+Wiggy+Wandy+1pitching prospect, I think you might be able to string something together.  Or at least get the talks started.  But then you are really relying on two people to emerge as replacements in your Position players... when in all honesty, you are already looking for a CF and C replacement.  Now maybe Chris Johnson is ready to take a shot at 3B, and maybe you can find some other journeyman or two to fill in the other spots, but that is also an issue that would have to be addressed while making this deal.

I am in the camp for get Peavy to Houston just about anyway you can, but you cannot ignore the ripple effect that it will cause to the ML club too.  As has been pointed out, it is highly doubtful the Astros have anything close to a package of prospects to entices San Diego, without including players at the ML level already.

[pravata]

Should the Padres wait a year?

Peavy has full no-trade rights through 2010 per the three-year, $52 million extension he signed in December. But in 2011 he can be traded without his consent to 14 clubs, and in 2012-13 can block a trade to only eight clubs.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/baseball/2008/10/21/peavy_wants_full_no_trade/

[MusicMan]

Wouldn't that be waiting 2 years?

[OregonStrosFan]

Wouldn't that be waiting 2 years?

Forget it, he's rolling.

[pravata]

Wouldn't that be waiting 2 years?

Sure why not.  Not like they're going anywhere.

[pravata]

latest, Towers is going on vacation for 4 days and promises wife not to answer phone, etc.  meanwhile,

According to some reports, Atlanta has an offer on the table that would include prospects Jordan Schafer and Tommy Hanson and either second baseman Kelly Johnson or shortstop Yunel Escobar. Schafer, a 22-year-old center fielder, was suspended 50 games at the start of the 2008 season for suspected use of human growth hormone
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/10/23/sports/padres/zadbf5bfac2101c1e882574ea00805dee.txt

[pravata]

latest, Towers is going on vacation for 4 days and promises wife not to answer phone, etc.  meanwhile,

According to some reports, Atlanta has an offer on the table that would include prospects Jordan Schafer and Tommy Hanson and either second baseman Kelly Johnson or shortstop Yunel Escobar. Schafer, a 22-year-old center fielder, was suspended 50 games at the start of the 2008 season for suspected use of human growth hormone
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/10/23/sports/padres/zadbf5bfac2101c1e882574ea00805dee.txt

Braves GM responds,

"Many of the trade speculations that have been written over the past few weeks are inaccurate," Wren said. "For the most part they are simply an outsider speculating what we might do and not what we would do."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3659895

[Gizzmonic]

Should the Padres wait a year?

Peavy has full no-trade rights through 2010 per the three-year, $52 million extension he signed in December. But in 2011 he can be traded without his consent to 14 clubs, and in 2012-13 can block a trade to only eight clubs.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/baseball/2008/10/21/peavy_wants_full_no_trade/

Which team do you think is the most commonly included in no-trade clauses?  Baltimore is my guess, followed by Tampa Bay and Toronto (again, pure speculation).  Although I bet a bunch of guys are willing to remove the Tampa Bay clause after the current season.

[hostros7]

Which team do you think is the most commonly included in no-trade clauses?  Baltimore is my guess, followed by Tampa Bay and Toronto (again, pure speculation).  Although I bet a bunch of guys are willing to remove the Tampa Bay clause after the current season.

KC has to the end of the proverbial Earth. 

[Ron Brand]

I'm sure Cincinnati figures prominently in those lists too.

[VirtualBob]

KC has to the end of the proverbial Earth. 

Or the proverbial end of the earth?  You can at least see it from there.

[Gizzmonic]

KC has to [sic] the end of the proverbial Earth. 

I'll bet Pittsburgh is inked into many of them as well.  And, it probably smells a lot more like the end of the Earth than KC.

[Mr. Happy]

I'll bet Pittsburgh is inked into many of them as well.  And, it probably smells a lot more like the end of the Earth than KC.

I bet that Minnehaha also is included in that list.

[hostros7]

I'll bet Pittsburgh is inked into many of them as well.  And, it probably smells a lot more like the end of the Earth than KC.

You're probably right due to quality of the baseball product, but Pitt is allegedly quite pleasant with a beautiful ballpark.

/hearsay

[Bench]

You're probably right due to quality of the baseball product, but Pitt is allegedly quite pleasant with a beautiful ballpark.

/hearsay

Pittsburgh is gorgeous.  One of the most underrated cities in the country.

[das]

Pittsburgh is gorgeous.  One of the most underrated cities in the country.

I agree.  Reasonably slow pace of life (it's not a northeast city), very pretty, great healthcare, good universities, some local pride, some big business and lots of diversity.  It is a fantastic place, especially if you are into outdoorsey stuff like biking, hikine, kayaking, etc... 

[strosrays]

Pittsburgh is gorgeous.  One of the most underrated cities in the country.

As is Seattle, but I'll bet most players don't want to play there now.

[Gizzmonic]

You're probably right due to quality of the baseball product, but Pitt is allegedly quite pleasant with a beautiful ballpark.

/hearsay

I was thinking of the industrial-grade stench of Pittsburgh's paper and steel mills.  But I'm really talking through my ass as I have never spent any time there, unless you count driving through once on the way to VA beach.  My apologies to the fine hardworking citizens of the Steel City.

[BudGirl]

I was thinking of the industrial-grade stench of Pittsburgh's paper and steel mills.  But I'm really talking through my ass as I have never spent any time there, unless you count driving through once on the way to VA beach.  My apologies to the fine hardworking citizens of the Steel City.

I don't remember any stench.  The only I didn't like about Pittsburgh in March is that it is freaking COLD.

[Limey]

I don't remember any stench.  The only I didn't like about Pittsburgh in March is that it is freaking COLD.

FIFY.

[pravata]

"I spoke to him [Axelrod] and told him we would like to slow the process down," Towers said. "It is so he can relay to Jake what the Padres will look like moving forward and give them a chance to review other organizations."

Towers hopes to have a better idea where Axelrod and Peavy -- who has a limited no-trade clause -- stand, as well as which teams the 27-year-old Peavy might be amenable to playing for.

"I want to know who I can engage before I go up there," Towers said about the Nov. 3-6 general manager's meetings in Dana Point, Calif.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081023&content_id=3640203&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

It's reported that 14 teams have contacted the Padres.  Towers seems to be encouraging them, despite Peavy's approved list, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles and St. Louis.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I just can't imagine why he would have Chicago on that list.

[VirtualBob]

I was thinking of the industrial-grade stench of Pittsburgh's paper and steel mills.  But I'm really talking through my ass as I have never spent any time there, unless you count driving through once on the way to VA beach.  My apologies to the fine hardworking citizens of the Steel City.

It's OK ... They're closed now.

[Noe]

I just can't imagine why he would have Chicago on that list.

The agent gets to pick one city, just for leveraging purposes (ie: have one city that will overpay in terms of talent and maybe money... re: contract extention).

[pravata]

Peavy is putting the squeeze on the Padres options, reported,

Peavy has made it known to the Padres that he would not accept a trade to the Rangers, who are deep in prospects and twice have made trades with this Padres front office that greatly benefited San Diego
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/25/padres-s26padres192628/?padres

He's vetoing good deals for the Padres.  Also the Braves are saying they're not trading Hanson, shooting down those rumors.  The Padres may have to settle for less than they had hoped.

[Taras Bulba]

I heard Olney on one of those blah-blah shows essentially state that Peavy wants to go to the Braves because he's a "Southern boy" and that Atlanta is putting together a deal.  I don't think that Buster knows that Peavy has been gutting deer with Roy and that you can get biscuits and gravy in Houston.

[pravata]

I heard Olney on one of those blah-blah shows essentially state that Peavy wants to go to the Braves because he's a "Southern boy" and that Atlanta is putting together a deal.  I don't think that Buster knows that Peavy has been gutting deer with Roy and that you can get biscuits and gravy in Houston.

Olney ought to do his homework.  As we've seen in this thread, the Chronicle quoted Peavy, "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

[Mr. Happy]

Homework? Olney? No way. It is too much fun and a whole lot easier to make it up as he goes along. What an asshat.

[DVauthrin]

Olney ought to do his homework.  As we've seen in this thread, the Chronicle quoted Peavy, "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

You are asking quite a bit for an ESPN analyst to do any basic research.

[BUWebguy]

Everyone's favorite sideline reporter, Ken Rosenthal, reports that "The Padres would approach the Yankees and possibly other American League clubs about Peavy only after they exhausted their options with his preferred NL teams."
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8741126/Baseball-needs-to-work-on-its-calendar?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

[cougar]

Everyone's favorite sideline reporter, Ken Rosenthal, reports that "The Padres would approach the Yankees and possibly other American League clubs about Peavy only after they exhausted their options with his preferred NL teams."
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8741126/Baseball-needs-to-work-on-its-calendar?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

Ken's never heard the term "no-trade clause". 

Or "intelligent reporting".

[Reuben]

Ken's never heard the term "no-trade clause". 

Or "intelligent reporting".

"The Padres would approach the Yankees and possibly other American League clubs about Peavy only after they exhausted their options with his preferred NL teams."
I read that as Rosenthal saying that, per Peavy's no-trade clause, they are going to explore all options with his favorites before turning to AL teams at all. From what I've seen, Peavy has not stated that he will not accept a trade to the AL under any circumstances. It would probably take $ignificant $weetening to be palatable though.

[MusicMan]

Towers: Peavy may be open to Yankees, Angels

[Taras Bulba]

Towers: Peavy may be open to Yankees, Angels

Saw also on SN where Boras says we won't have Maddux to kick around anymore and that Jeter can't field his ass with both hands.

[MusicMan]

Saw also on SN where Boras says we won't have Maddux to kick around anymore and that Jeter can't field his ass with both hands.

Jeter's fielded many, many fine asses, Minka Kelly being the latest.

[Matt]

Has Jeter EVER been able to field?

[Taras Bulba]

Has Jeter EVER been able to field?

The Eastern sports media vouches for his defensive prowess.  Do you question them?  DO YOU?

[Ty in Tampa]

He's a gamer!

[das]

The Eastern sports media vouches for his defensive prowess.  Do you question them?  DO YOU?

Where is Sporting News penned?

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=482462

Derek Jeter called "worst fielder in baseball".

My first thought was, "it'd stink to be him" but then I quickly changed my mind.

[Noe]

Where is Sporting News penned?

St. Looie, home of the Best Baseball Fans in America.

[dirty steve]

GM Towers narrows list to 3 teams, all of the NL variety.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-padres-peavy&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Jacksonian]

GM Towers narrows list to 3 teams, all of the NL variety.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-padres-peavy&prov=ap&type=lgns

Mark it down.  Peavy will be a Cub.

[pravata]

Mark it down.  Peavy will be a Cub.

Maybe, but I think the Astros are still an option,

“Jake and Barry have told me there’s really kind of three that they want us to focus on. Those are the three we’ve been focusing on,” Towers said Tuesday at the GM meetings.

What Peavy said earlier "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

[Duman]

Maybe, but I think the Astros are still an option,

“Jake and Barry have told me there’s really kind of three that they want us to focus on. Those are the three we’ve been focusing on,” Towers said Tuesday at the GM meetings.

What Peavy said earlier "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

Here is what is being said in San Diego papers:

The Padres consider three of those a potential match – the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers. Towers said Tuesday he is "down the road" in talks with two of those three but "doesn't see" a trade happening before the GM meetings end Wednesday.

[JackAstro]

Towers said that based on conversations with Peavy’s agent, Barry Axelrod, he is dealing with five AL teams and two NL clubs, but only a trio of National League squads is being given intense consideration.

Is that supposed to be five NL and two AL?

[Gizzmonic]

Maybe, but I think the Astros are still an option,

“Jake and Barry have told me there’s really kind of three that they want us to focus on. Those are the three we’ve been focusing on,” Towers said Tuesday at the GM meetings.

What Peavy said earlier "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

I guess Houston doesn't have the goods.  What do you think each team is offering?

[Duman]

I had read that San Diego would like to get two MLB level players.

[pravata]

I guess Houston doesn't have the goods.  What do you think each team is offering?

No idea, but I think it's significant that Towers is only talking to teams that Peavy tells him to and that the Astros are his favorite. 

[Russe]

The only thing is, that for all the articles being written about this, I have yet to see one that suggests that the Astros and Padres have had any meaningful discussions about Peavy. Doesn't mean it's not happening, but you would imagine someone would have gotten wind of the talks and reported on it.

[JackAstro]

The only thing is, that for all the articles being written about this, I have yet to see one that suggests that the Astros and Padres have had any meaningful discussions about Peavy. Doesn't mean it's not happening, but you would imagine someone would have gotten wind of the talks and reported on it.

Was there much noise prior to the Lidge and Tejada trades last offseason? I doesn't seem like it, but I really don't remember for sure.

[Jacksonian]

Maybe, but I think the Astros are still an option,

“Jake and Barry have told me there’s really kind of three that they want us to focus on. Those are the three we’ve been focusing on,” Towers said Tuesday at the GM meetings.

What Peavy said earlier "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."

Shh.  I'm working over here.

[Russe]

The Lidge trade came out of the blue, iirc. The Tejada trade was one of those deals where you heard about discussions, then heard it was dead, and then it happened later with little warning.

[Noe]

Here is what is being said in San Diego papers:

I'm confused, on the one hand Peavy and Axelrod say they like three teams (unnamed of course).  The San Diego papers though talk about the three teams that the *Padres* would like to deal with.  I think the whole thing is about nuttin' happening myself, but the way we have to string together information from bits and pieces instead of one person (Footer, I'm looking at you!)  just flat out saying things straight and to the point speaks loudly about journalism today.

*sigh*

[pravata]

I'm confused, on the one hand Peavy and Axelrod say they like three teams (unnamed of course).  The San Diego papers though talk about the three teams that the *Padres* would like to deal with.  I think the whole thing is about nuttin' happening myself, but the way we have to string together information from bits and pieces instead of one person (Footer, I'm looking at you!)  just flat out saying things straight and to the point speaks loudly about journalism today.

*sigh*

to help (be more confused) Ken Davidoff at NY Newsday posted this

Kevin Towers told reporters yesterday that Peavy had actually narrowed his list down to three NL teams. Here is what Peavy's agent, Barry Axelrod, e-mailed me late last (Tuesday) night:

"I think we are probably dealing with semantics here. Jake has not approved a trade or potential trade to any team. The list was intended only to give the Padres some guidance on which teams Jake would consider. It is neither a definitive list nor an all-inclusive list. We are not adding or deleting teams as the process goes along. The list was provided for a singular purpose and there has been no subsequent discussion involving any pending trade and no request to Jake for approval of any team. I assume that will come if and when a proposed trade develops."
http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/2008/11/gms_meetings_the_folly_of_spen.html

[Gizzmonic]

Yes, more confusing.  Is Peavy really sick of San Diego or is this just the best hot-stove story out there (thus being over-reported and fueling even wider speculation)?

I have to admit, I'm not sure why he'd want to go, or why they'd want to trade him.  Their starting pitching is very good-I think they could contend if they just got a power hitting OF or 3B.  Obviously, Kevin Towers knows more than me though, and he seems to have elected to blow up the team.

to help (be more confused) Ken Davidoff at NY Newsday posted this

Kevin Towers told reporters yesterday that Peavy had actually narrowed his list down to three NL teams. Here is what Peavy's agent, Barry Axelrod, e-mailed me late last (Tuesday) night:

"I think we are probably dealing with semantics here. Jake has not approved a trade or potential trade to any team. The list was intended only to give the Padres some guidance on which teams Jake would consider. It is neither a definitive list nor an all-inclusive list. We are not adding or deleting teams as the process goes along. The list was provided for a singular purpose and there has been no subsequent discussion involving any pending trade and no request to Jake for approval of any team. I assume that will come if and when a proposed trade develops."
http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/2008/11/gms_meetings_the_folly_of_spen.html

[Reuben]

Yes, more confusing.  Is Peavy really sick of San Diego or is this just the best hot-stove story out there (thus being over-reported and fueling even wider speculation)?

I have to admit, I'm not sure why he'd want to go, or why they'd want to trade him...

It's a bit of a head-scratcher to me, too, but here's what Towers has said:

“He’s not too expensive to keep,” said Towers, whose opening-day payroll this year was $74 million. “It’s just that last year, we lost 99 games with him. So if we’re able to add multiple pieces here that we think are going to improve our club, we’ve got to look at it.

“We need to add quite a few pieces,” the GM said. “I just don’t think we can bring the same ballclub back that we had in 2008 and expect to be a lot better. I like the young players in our system. ...But we need to make some trades and bring in some good players if we want to get better. I mean, 63 wins — I’d like to think we’re going to get better.”

San Diego also is considering trading shortstop Khalil Greene, owed $6.5 million next year.

yahoo article linked earlier.
So basically, they're not too cheap to keep Peavy, but they are too cheap to add other players that could help them contend in the next year or three.

[OregonStrosFan]

So basically, they're not too cheap to keep Peavy, but they are too cheap to add other players that could help them contend in the next year or three.

Folks are also speculating that the payroll decisions (either add new salary or dump salary) may also be a factor of questions relating to the divorce proceedings of the Moores (49%? owners).

[OregonStrosFan]

to help (be more confused)

The San Diego Union-Tribune (LNK) is reporting that: The Padres consider three of those a potential match – the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers. Towers said yesterday he is “down the road” in talks with two of those three but “doesn't see” a trade happening before the GM meetings end tomorrow.

[Duman]

The San Diego Union-Tribune (LNK) is reporting that: The Padres consider three of those a potential match – the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers. Towers said yesterday he is “down the road” in talks with two of those three but “doesn't see” a trade happening before the GM meetings end tomorrow.

I have heard that before

[OregonStrosFan]

I have heard that before

Crap.  My bad...

[Noe]

The San Diego Union-Tribune (LNK) is reporting that: The Padres consider three of those a potential match – the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers. Towers said yesterday he is “down the road” in talks with two of those three but “doesn't see” a trade happening before the GM meetings end tomorrow.

Word is that the Dodgers and Braves are the forerunners.  No other team is close.

[Russe]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8761340/Sources:-Cubs-consider-deals-for-Peavy,-Dempster?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

Our favorite analyst Ken Rosenthal says the Cubs are now the front-runner to land Peavy.  I have a hard time believing this one--there farm system isn't too much better than ours. I have to imagine we can at least match any proposal that they put out there. Rotoworld speculates that the names involved could be Felix Pie, Rich Hill, Sean Marshall, Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fontenot and Donald Veal...not exactly the most inspiring group.

[Duman]

Braves rumored/theorized to be packaging: Yunel Escobar, two upper prospect pitchers not named Tommy Hanson and a lower prospect.

[MusicMan]

Braves rumored/theorized to be packaging: Yunel Escobar, two upper prospect pitchers not named Tommy Hanson and a lower prospect.

Yeah, I don't think we're going to match that.

[Taras Bulba]

The Mets are rumored to be offering Lastings Milledge.  Straight up.

[pravata]

San Diego paper today says

Already, Peavy's professed hope of joining buddy Roy Oswalt on the Houston Astros has been dashed. Towers and Houston GM Ed Wade agree that the two clubs lack the right pieces to be trading partners. Neither do the St. Louis Cardinals appear to be a fit.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/sullivan/20081106-9999-1s6sullivan.html

[JimR]

Dammit, I was starting to hope. Of course, I offered Pence straight up.

[MusicMan]

I'm guessing we won't ask a Baptist grocer to get involved in a 3-way.

[austro]

Dammit, I was starting to hope. Of course, I offered Pence straight up.

Maybe Taras can ask the Mets for the "Lastings Milledge Press Kit" and we can puff things up a bit.

[Taras Bulba]

I'm guessing we won't ask a Baptist grocer to get involved in a 3-way.

Throw in Bud Selig and his ears may perk up.

[pravata]

Speculations from Atl.

Would a package of Escobar and, for instance, pitchers Kris Medlen and Charlie Morton, plus perhaps a lesser prospect, get the Peavy deal done? I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably so, because Escobar is regarded highly around baseball. More highly than some Braves fans might realize, folks who got a little turned off at times during his injury-plagued and occasionally temper-flaring season.

He’s got a cannon arm, great hands, a passion to play, and natural power that’s going to (probably) translate to 15-25 homers a season and a ton of doubles, in addition to a high average and OBP.

But there’s still that “probably” in there. It’s not a slam-dunk that Escobar is going to be an elite all-around shortstop you can build around. I’d bet that he will be, but it’s not guaranteed.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/11/05/

Also, too, from the San Diego article

The Braves have been adamant about withholding their best prospects from a Peavy deal. The Cubs have shown strong interest, but may be missing the right prospects. The Dodgers – well, they're the Dodgers.

Wade maybe oughta keep in touch.

[Gizzmonic]

San Diego paper today says

Already, Peavy's professed hope of joining buddy Roy Oswalt on the Houston Astros has been dashed. Towers and Houston GM Ed Wade agree that the two clubs lack the right pieces to be trading partners. Neither do the St. Louis Cardinals appear to be a fit.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/sullivan/20081106-9999-1s6sullivan.html

They need a power hitting OF and 3B, don't they?  Hello, Wigginton and Pence?  But then again, Uncle Drayton doesn't want Pence going anywhere, does he?

[das]

They need a power hitting OF and 3B, don't they?  Hello, Wigginton and Pence?  But then again, Uncle Drayton doesn't want Pence going anywhere, does he?

For Peavy?  I'd personally drive Pence to SD.

[JaneDoe]

For Peavy?  I'd personally drive Pence to SD.

Heck, I'd pour the asphalt for the road.

[Noe]

They need a power hitting OF and 3B, don't they?  Hello, Wigginton and Pence?  But then again, Uncle Drayton doesn't want Pence going anywhere, does he?

If McLane values Pence that much, it isn't because of baseball skills... more of the personality and ability to draw some fans attention for some reason.  The kids is likable and the monster spring season he had two years ago is still fresh in the minds of fans.  Given time though, McLane is probably going to find that Pence will be your average baseball player and not much more.  That's not bad, but that's not a Bagwell or Biggio replacement either.  That is where McLane is making a mistake listening to fans in and around the concourse.  They're convinced Pence is the next star in the making.

And they're wrong.

Good major leaguer, but hardly the makings of the next star in Houston.  Reminds me of the day we attended the 2001 Opening Day and Daryle Ward hit a homerun.  Listening to the post game show riding home to Austin (with Raups, Andyzipp and Nash), many fans were ready to proclaim Ward to be the next superstar for Houston.  One even went as far as to say that the Astros should get rid of that good fer nuthing loggygagging overweight slow footed Lance Berkman... NOW!  Ward was his man to be the next best thing and the Astros were wrong to give Berkman even the time of day much less an opportunity to play over Ward or platoon with him.

Fans are not the best voices to listen to when it comes to these sort of things Mr. McLane.

[Astroholic]

Heck, I'd pour the asphalt for the road.

Apperently, they could use you in S. Austin.

[Noe]

Apperently, they could use you in S. Austin.

They don't use asphalt in S. Austin.  Dirt, yes... asphalt, no.  Asphalt makes walking around barefoot a bad things for Southies.

[MusicMan]

OK, somebody stage an intervention if I stray too far into TTB territory...

The Braves are supposedly seeking a right-handing power hitting corner outfielder in exchange for Kelly Johnson - Ryan Ludwick from the Cards is one rumor the BFiB's are talking up.
The Astros and Padres are supposedly not a good fit.
The Braves are theorizing a Yunel Escobar + 2 arms + lesser prospect for Peavy.

So let's suppose that Peavy tells Towers, "I'd REALLY like to be in Houston."

Would the Padres and Braves bite on a 3 way deal of, let's say:
Peavy to Houston
PENCE!!! to Atlanta
Johnson + Norris, Perez, and lesser prospect to San Diego?

[homer]

It would take more than just PENCE!!!

[hostros7]

He’s got a cannon arm, great hands, a passion to play, and natural power that’s going to (probably) translate to 15-25 homers a season and a ton of doubles, in addition to a high average and OBP.

Not up on Escobar but how is this such a significant upgrade over PENCE!!!?  Gunther already puts up those power numbers.  His glove isn't all that great, but he is slick with the ladiez.

[austro]

OK, somebody stage an intervention if I stray too far into TTB territory...

The Braves are supposedly seeking a right-handing power hitting corner outfielder in exchange for Kelly Johnson - Ryan Ludwick from the Cards is one rumor the BFiB's are talking up.
The Astros and Padres are supposedly not a good fit.
The Braves are theorizing a Yunel Escobar + 2 arms + lesser prospect for Peavy.

So let's suppose that Peavy tells Towers, "I'd REALLY like to be in Houston."

Would the Padres and Braves bite on a 3 way deal of, let's say:
Peavy to Houston
PENCE!!! to Atlanta
Johnson + Norris, Perez, and lesser prospect to San Diego?

Ok, I misread that the first time, and thought you were talking about Atlanta giving up four people for Pence (one player for Pence, and one for each exclamation mark). Now I understand that you're talking about OUR Norris, Perez and lesser prospect. That might work, but I share other folks' concern that McLane is fixated on Pence.

[ValpoCory]

[sarc] How did PENCE! not win tht Gold Glove!?  He only had 1 error.  [\sarc]

"The Houston Astros, who committed 16 fewer errors than any other major league team, did not have a winner."

Although bad for the Astros, I'm glad Rawlings isn't too focused on error statistics.

[Bench]

[sarc] How did PENCE! not win tht Gold Glove!?  He only had 1 error.  [\sarc]

"The Houston Astros, who committed 16 fewer errors than any other major league team, did not have a winner."

Although bad for the Astros, I'm glad Rawlings isn't too focused on error statistics.

Only 1 error and a lot of outfield assists to boot.  Frankly, those *numbers* are usually the kind that the gold glove voters focus on (when they're not focusing on the player's offensive skills).

[MusicMan]

Only 1 error and a lot of outfield assists to boot.  Frankly, those *numbers* are usually the kind that the gold glove voters focus on (when they're not focusing on the player's offensive skills).

Hence McLouth's gold glove.

[Russe]

We may not be out of the race yet...

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/06/yankees-not-in-the-mix-for-peavy/

"Towers also revealed that he is dealing with three teams, all in the National League. He mentioned the possibility of Peavy moving as part of a multi-team trade.

The Padres are known to be dealing with the Braves and Cubs. The third team could be the Cardinals or Astros."

Given everything we've been hearing, the Cards make more sense, but at this point, who really knows?

[jaklewein]

Not up on Escobar but how is this such a significant upgrade over PENCE!!!?  Gunther already puts up those power numbers.  His glove isn't all that great, but he is slick with the ladiez.

Braves don't want another Jeff Francouer clone.  Don't take this literally...I like alot of things about Pence more, but they are similar.  Francouer came up from the minors mashing (messiah tag applied shortly thereafter), he was all the rage with the female fanatics and he's failed miserably to live up to expectations ever since. 

[jaklewein]

We may not be out of the race yet...

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/06/yankees-not-in-the-mix-for-peavy/

"Towers also revealed that he is dealing with three teams, all in the National League. He mentioned the possibility of Peavy moving as part of a multi-team trade.

The Padres are known to be dealing with the Braves and Cubs. The third team could be the Cardinals or Astros."

Given everything we've been hearing, the Cards make more sense, but at this point, who really knows?

Quick question...would the Astros part with Bourn?  I know he ain't worth what he was...but SD's been rumored to be looking for a CF and Bourn's speed/defense has to be valued more by the Padres in that ballpark then anywhere else.  If so, then Pence, Bourn (two major leaguers, young and cheap), plus a prospect or two?  Just asking.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Quick question...would the Astros part with Bourn?  I know he ain't worth what he was...but SD's been rumored to be looking for a CF and Bourn's speed/defense has to be valued more by the Padres in that ballpark then anywhere else.  If so, then Pence, Bourn (two major leaguers, young and cheap), plus a prospect or two?  Just asking.

I can't say that it makes sense for Wade to give up on Bourn yet.  I'm sure he does have value as a trade chip, but his value to the organization is likely greater than what he would draw on the open market.

[Reuben]

Hence McLouth's gold glove.

And Michael Young's.

[pravata]

OK, somebody stage an intervention if I stray too far into TTB territory...

The Braves are supposedly seeking a right-handing power hitting corner outfielder in exchange for Kelly Johnson - Ryan Ludwick from the Cards is one rumor the BFiB's are talking up.
The Astros and Padres are supposedly not a good fit.
The Braves are theorizing a Yunel Escobar + 2 arms + lesser prospect for Peavy.

So let's suppose that Peavy tells Towers, "I'd REALLY like to be in Houston."

Would the Padres and Braves bite on a 3 way deal of, let's say:
Peavy to Houston
PENCE!!! to Atlanta
Johnson + Norris, Perez, and lesser prospect to San Diego?

Towers,...anticipates a trade before the winter meetings open in Las Vegas on Dec. 8. ...
“We’re not to the point where we’ve agreed on who the players are coming back. We just have an idea of who’s available to us and who’s not,” Towers said. “Now it’s just a matter of looking at three priority teams that are involved and trying to figure out what our optimum deal is. Some of them involve third teams and potentially fourth teams, so it becomes a little more complicated.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-gmmeetings&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Froback]

Braves don't want another Jeff Francouer clone.  Don't take this literally...I like alot of things about Pence more, but they are similar.  Francouer came up from the minors mashing (messiah tag applied shortly thereafter), he was all the rage with the female fanatics and he's failed miserably to live up to expectations ever since. 

Perhaps you follow the Braves more closely than I, but given how BAD their OF was, I think they would be happy with Pence.  But the catch might be for them, they have some really hot prospects in the OF, but they are still 1-2 yrs away, min from all I have heard.

[Froback]

Towers,...anticipates a trade before the winter meetings open in Las Vegas on Dec. 8. ...
“We’re not to the point where we’ve agreed on who the players are coming back. We just have an idea of who’s available to us and who’s not,” Towers said. “Now it’s just a matter of looking at three priority teams that are involved and trying to figure out what our optimum deal is. Some of them involve third teams and potentially fourth teams, so it becomes a little more complicated.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-gmmeetings&prov=ap&type=lgns

My concern here is, if the Astros are the "3rd team" then they are not landing Peavy.  If, however as MM proposed, the Braves are the "3rd team" then it works.

Just thought I would share that thought... if the Astros are involved and NOT landing Peavy, who might they be looking to add... just to add a total "EXIT RAMP" tangent to this thread.

[The Spleen]

Who replaces Pence if he's traded?

[pravata]

My concern here is, if the Astros are the "3rd team" then they are not landing Peavy.  If, however as MM proposed, the Braves are the "3rd team" then it works.

Just thought I would share that thought... if the Astros are involved and NOT landing Peavy, who might they be looking to add... just to add a total "EXIT RAMP" tangent to this thread.

In any case, I think the Astros are more likely to be in the running if it's a multi-team deal.  AND, Towers did say “The train’s kind of left the station,”.  Hint?

[JackAstro]

... AND, Towers did say “The train’s kind of left the station,”.  Hint?

Did he wink when he said it? Regardless, I say yes.

In response, Mr. Towers, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Repeat, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Over.

[Froback]

In any case, I think the Astros are more likely to be in the running if it's a multi-team deal.  AND, Towers did say “The train’s kind of left the station,”.  Hint?

I like where your mind is at, but I think you are reaching.

As for Pence's replacement... I am ok with someone who was on the team last year or a FA addition if it means adding Peavy.  I think it WAY to early, but Bogusevic is a possibility down the road.  It isn't like the team wasn't rotating the OF last year when Lee went down and they still made that run at the end of the year, so they are not devoid of options.

[MusicMan]

Who replaces Pence if he's traded?

Rocco Baldelli's out there.

[MusicMan]

Did he wink when he said it? Regardless, I say yes.

In response, Mr. Towers, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Repeat, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Over.

Was Towers really just tugging at his ear?  Or was it a signal?

[Froback]

Did he wink when he said it? Regardless, I say yes.

In response, Mr. Towers, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Repeat, the pumpkins are in the coal car. Over.

I think you want to go with multiple methods of signal sending... he already did verbal, now try visual, like a Minute Maid juice box for his drink while he answers questions instead of a water bottle.

[JimR]

Who replaces Pence if he's traded?

anyone, even you, could.

[Russe]

Rocco Baldelli's out there.

As is Juan Rivera.

[MusicMan]

Rivera was my next thought, but he's been BAAAAAAD since his injury.

[Jacksonian]

Who replaces Pence if he's traded?

Possibly an Erstad/FA righty platoon?

[BudGirl]

anyone, even you, could.

Jason Lane?

[Russe]

Rivera was my next thought, but he's been BAAAAAAD since his injury.

I'm still a believer. Give him consistent AB's and I think he'll do fine.

[JackAstro]

Possibly an Erstad/FA righty platoon?

Erstad / Reggie "The Breeze" Abercrombie?

[Hornstros]

Have we all forgotten about God's-gift-to-getting-on-base, Michael Bourn?

[MusicMan]

He still has to play CF.

[JimR]

Have we all forgotten about God's-gift-to-getting-on-base, Michael Bourn?

Bourn was not given a fair chance to be good.

[Astroholic]

Bourn was not given a fair chance to be good.

And I am not sure he will be given that chance this year either.  Come on Coop!

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

And I am not sure he will be given that chance this year either.  Come on Coop!

If Pence!!! is shipped out and Erstad is pressed into a platoon situation in RF, then Bourn would almost necessarily get more of a shot, since Erstad can't (or shouldn't) be platooned in two positions.

[Hornstros]

Bourn was not given a fair chance to be good.

Can't disagree with that.  His last 2 years in the MLB should have been handled differently in retrospect

[OregonStrosFan]

Would Peavy kill a trade to the Braves if it includes sending Escobar to the Padres?  Maybe?  LINK

Politics makes strange bedfellows and so does Jake Peavy's no-trade clause, which is why the Padres ace and his agent yesterday were discussing Braves shortstop Yunel Escobar and their preference that he remain with the Braves if Peavy is sent to Atlanta.
***
The subject of Escobar came up yesterday morning between Peavy and his agent, Barry Axelrod. *** “Escobar's a pretty good player,” Axelrod said yesterday afternoon. “To be honest, Jake and I have said, 'If that kind of trade gets made, who plays short for them?' "
***
Axelrod said the Padres haven't asked for approval on a trade. In the event they do, he and Peavy, acting as de facto GMs, are evaluating the capabilities of the Padres' potential trade partners. *** “One of the things we will want to look at at some point is, 'Who are you giving up? How much are you weakening your team to make this deal?' ” Axelrod said. “If Team X trades three starting pitchers and a starting shortstop to get Jake Peavy, that lessens their chance of being a successful team.”
***
But if a trade is arranged, Peavy's loyalty could shift to his potential new employer.  “That's why you can't give a blanket approval to a (potential trade partner) in advance”...

[Jacksonian]

Would Peavy kill a trade to the Braves if it includes sending Escobar to the Padres?  Maybe?  LINK

Attaboy Jake.  Finding a RF who can hit is easier than finding a SS who can hit.

[pravata]

Would Peavy kill a trade to the Braves if it includes sending Escobar to the Padres?  Maybe?  LINK

This ain't over, keep pitching Wade.  You didn't listen to Chacon when he said no, now is not the time to work on your listening skills.

[Noe]

Possibly an Erstad/FA righty platoon?

With Bogesevic (sp?) lurking in AA/AAA just in case.

[Jacksonian]

With Bogesevic (sp?) lurking in AA/AAA just in case.

I'm having trouble seeing Bogusevic in an Astros uni anytime before September through my crystal ball.  He's got to prove he can play everyday for a full season AND still be a consistent contributor.  Plus he wouldn't platoon with Erstad as they both hit lefty.

[Duman]

I'm having trouble seeing Bogusevic in an Astros uni anytime before September through my crystal ball.  He's got to prove he can play everyday for a full season AND still be a consistent contributor.  Plus he wouldn't platoon with Erstad as they both hit lefty.

And adjust to pitchers who adjust to him.  The sample size is just too small right now to get too excited.

[Jacksonian]

McLane the wet blanket or playing coy:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6100711.html

"But McLane, who didn’t divulge which players the Padres asked in return, said the Astros aren’t in position to trade away multiple players for one player."

[JimR]

McLane the wet blanket or playing coy:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6100711.html

"But McLane, who didn’t divulge which players the Padres asked in return, said the Astros aren’t in position to trade away multiple players for one player."

i hope playing coy. just what realistic trade for Peavy would not involve multiple players?

[Reuben]

huh? McLane, "San Diego has given us a big list they would want from the Houston Astros, and it’s multiple players and some of our best players..."
Obviously the Padres don't want Oswalt, Berkman, Valverde or Lee with their big contracts, so, uh, who else is among their "best players"? Pence, maybe Wigginton? Who else would they be reluctant to give up?

As for RF, maybe it's even more of a long shot, but I still think the Astros should try to get Giles too if they can land Peavy. The Padres still haven't been able to make up their minds on his $9 mil option.

And I totally agree with Pravata that the Astros are much more likely to be involved in 3-team scenarios, ie. trading Pence to team X for pitching prospects, then packaging those and a couple of their own for Peavy.

[OregonStrosFan]

i hope playing coy. just what realistic trade for Peavy would not involve multiple players?

Lastings Milledge. 

[MusicMan]

I read that as Drayton unwilling to part with Pence.  Which is riddiculous.

[OregonStrosFan]

McLane the wet blanket or playing coy:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6100711.html

I thought it'd be years before Bud dared show his face in Houston again...

McLane comments came before he and baseball commissioner Bud Selig spoke today at a luncheon as part of the College Board's annual forum at the Hilton Americas Hotel in downtown Houston.

[JimR]

I read that as Drayton unwilling to part with Pence.  Which is riddiculous.

probably, and yes. Gardner probably thinks he's cute.

[hostros7]

It will be the final straw to the crushing realization that the marketing department has kidnapped the organization if I hear that the team refused any deal for Peavy that includes hunter pence and anyone else in the Astros ENTIRE organizaton not named Oswalt or Berkman. 

[Hornstros]

Gardner probably thinks he's cute.

I don't know about that.   I don't think Pence plays for the right team and i'm not talking about the Astros

[tophfar]

I don't know about that.   I don't think Pence plays for the right team and i'm not talking about the Astros

apparently you missed these.

http://a11news.com/136/hunter-pence-girlfriend/

[BizidyDizidy]

apparently you missed these.

http://a11news.com/136/hunter-pence-girlfriend/

I think you missed this:

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/hou/team/exec_mugs/gardner_pam.jpg

ETA: http://www.chron.com/photos/2004/01/27/3807625/226xRefer.jpg

[Hornstros]

apparently you missed these.

http://a11news.com/136/hunter-pence-girlfriend/

implications toward Garnder's sexual preference.   Just re-read though....a lil confusing

[Noe]

I'm having trouble seeing Bogusevic in an Astros uni anytime before September through my crystal ball.  He's got to prove he can play everyday for a full season AND still be a consistent contributor.  Plus he wouldn't platoon with Erstad as they both hit lefty.

Sorry I wasn't clear: Erstad and FA Righty platoon... Bogey gets seasoning in AA/AAA and that would make for a very good situation.

[pravata]

“We don’t want to wind up giving up three or four players for one player. Jake Peavy is one of the best pitchers in all of baseball. We would welcome him with open arms, but that’s going to be a real task with the demand that San Diego has and the type of talent they want back.” ....

"One of the things we’ve done in the last 10 years is given up talent in order to get an experienced player,” he said. “We certainly didn’t want to do that at this particular time.”

Certainly not, not after you did EXACTLY THAT last season for Miguel Tejada, you giant douche.  He's right there, all they have to do is give up 3 players not named Lee, Oswalt, or Berkman.

(the College Board's annual forum at the Hilton Americas Hotel in downtown Houston
http://www.collegeboard.com/events/forum/2008/homepage/index.html

I hope Mayor White stuck around to kick his ass.)

[tophfar]

I think you missed this:

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/hou/team/exec_mugs/gardner_pam.jpg

ETA: http://www.chron.com/photos/2004/01/27/3807625/226xRefer.jpg

Now that makes more sense, and in that case it would have been a little easier...

I don't know about that.   I don't think Pence Gardner plays for the right team and i'm not talking about the Astros

[tophfar]

implications toward Garnder's sexual preference.   Just re-read though....a lil confusing

Yeah i got it a little late, its friday im a little slower than even normal.

[Noe]

“We don’t want to wind up giving up three or four players for one player. Jake Peavy is one of the best pitchers in all of baseball. We would welcome him with open arms, but that’s going to be a real task with the demand that San Diego has and the type of talent they want back.” ....

"One of the things we’ve done in the last 10 years is given up talent in order to get an experienced player,” he said. “We certainly didn’t want to do that at this particular time.”

Certainly not, not after you did EXACTLY THAT last season for Miguel Tejada, you giant douche.  He's right there, all they have to do is give up 3 players not named Lee, Oswalt, or Berkman.

(the College Board's annual forum at the Hilton Americas Hotel in downtown Houston
http://www.collegeboard.com/events/forum/2008/homepage/index.html

I hope Mayor White stuck around to kick his ass.)

The reluctance is Hunter Pence for McLane.  He loves the fact that the turnstile fans love Pence.  

[Russe]

Someone ought to tell him they'd love Peavy just as much.

[JimR]

Someone ought to tell him they'd love Peavy just as much.

and winning even more

[Andyzipp]

Not much more I can say, but Jake in Houston isn't a dead deal.

And McLane loves him some Pence.

[Noe]

Not much more I can say, but Jake in Houston isn't a dead deal.

And McLane loves him some Pence.

The problem for the baseball braintrust is trying to swing a deal with San Diego without the name Pence involved.  Not. Gonna. Happen.  So Houston jumped back into the fray by trying to work on some three way deals, again without the name Pence involved.  McLane does not want to hear his baseball people mention a deal with Hunter's name on it.

It's wrong, but it's McLane.

[JimR]

Not much more I can say, but Jake in Houston isn't a dead deal.

And McLane loves him some Pence.

if we lose this deal because McLane loves Pence, i think i will walk to Houston and set fire to his office. that is insane.

[Taras Bulba]

if we lose this deal because McLane loves Pence, i think i will walk to Houston and set fire to his office. that is insane.

I'll bring a twelve pack and the kerosene.

[JimR]

The problem for the baseball braintrust is trying to swing a deal with San Diego without the name Pence involved.  Not. Gonna. Happen.  So Houston jumped back into the fray by trying to work on some three way deals, again without the name Pence involved.  McLane does not want to hear his baseball people mention a deal with Hunter's name on it.

It's wrong, but it's McLane.

is there anyone he listens to? this is crazy.

[Noe]

is there anyone he listens to? this is crazy.

I'm not sure... maybe?

[DVauthrin]

if we lose this deal because McLane loves Pence, i think i will walk to Houston and set fire to his office. that is insane.

agreed.  if hunter pence is all it takes to have one of the best SP combos in the game you make the deal every time.

[Russe]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081107&content_id=3671250&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"Astros officially out of race for Peavy"

Unless Wade is doing some serious zigging while we're zagging, it seems like we're out...unless Andyzipp knows something we don't.

[das]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081107&content_id=3671250&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"Astros officially out of race for Peavy"

Unless Wade is doing some serious zigging while we're zagging, it seems like we're out...unless Andyzipp knows something we don't.

"Quick, look over there!!!".  I hope...

[MusicMan]

Sporting News claims that the deal to Atlanta is almost done.

[pravata]

Sporting News claims that the deal to Atlanta is almost done.

This is the 2nd best outcome for the Astros.  He'll be "mostly harmless" (to the Astros) in Atl.

[MusicMan]

Agreed.  A Cubs rotation of Peavy-Zambrano-Harden-Dempster would have been very, very bad news.

[Amy]

Dempster's bound to develop carpal tunnel syndrome in his glove hand pretty soon, don't you think?

[Bench]

Rosenthal says "it's not true."

"There's a reason the Braves were surprised to learn that they were close to acquiring Padres right-hander Jake Peavy.

It's not true.

"Totally inaccurate," a Padres source with knowledge of the discussions told FOXSports.com on Thursday. "We are not close with anyone at this time."

[pravata]

Sporting News claims that the deal to Atlanta is almost done.

posted by Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports  26 minutes ago

“Nothing is close,” (Towers said.) “I wouldn’t say we are even remotely close to pulling the trigger on anything with Jake.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-morepeavy111308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Ebby Calvin]

According to Scott Miller at CBS, the Braves are out.

[JimR]

if we sit back/stand pat, and Peavy joins the Cubs, we are toast.

[MusicMan]

if we sit back/stand pat, and Peavy joins the Cubs, we are toast.

It will be another year of mediocrity/"competing" in that scenario.

[JaneDoe]

It will be another year of mediocrity/"competing" in that scenario.

Could be more than one year. 

[Limey]

if we sit back/stand pat, and Peavy joins the Cubs, we are toast.

And the Cubs will likely have set themselves on yet another path towards a terrible reckoning.

I must admit, I am torn...

[Lurch]

Footer: "Let's face it, the notion that the team ranked 30th of the 30 teams in organizational talent could possibly have enough to land a 27-year-old Cy Young winner is absurd."

(Link from Pravata in NYCU)

[geezerdonk]

Footer: "Let's face it, the notion that the team ranked 30th of the 30 teams in organizational talent could possibly have enough to land a 27-year-old Cy Young winner is absurd."

(Link from Pravata in NYCU)

I am a big fan of the absurd - big fan.

[JimR]

Footer: "Let's face it, the notion that the team ranked 30th of the 30 teams in organizational talent could possibly have enough to land a 27-year-old Cy Young winner is absurd."

(Link from Pravata in NYCU)

Footer herself floated one of the rumors going around: Pence, Wright and James (substitute minor league pitchers). the statement above is a tad disingenous.

[Noe]

And the Cubs will likely have set themselves on yet another path towards a terrible reckoning.

I must admit, I am torn...

Nothing makes teams get back into a bidding than the mention of a frontrunner.  Cubs are either seriously involved or seriously being used.  I can't think which one is applicable right now.

[DVauthrin]

Footer herself floated one of the rumors going around: Pence, Wright and James (substitute minor league pitchers). the statement above is a tad disingenous.

Someone needs to knock sense into Drayton concerning Pence.   If involving Hunter gets an ace like Peavy, I'd tell him to start packing for california myself.

[JimR]

Nothing makes teams back into a bidding than the mention of a frontrunner.  Cubs are either seriously involved or seriously being used.  I can't think which one is applicable right now.

i hope the latter and fear the former.

[BudGirl]

Someone needs to knock sense into Drayton concerning Pence.   If involving Hunter gets an ace like Peavy, I'd tell him to start packing for california myself.

Let him know that i'd help with the packing.

[MusicMan]

Let him know that i'd help with the packing.

Just an excuse to go visit Brad out in Cali?

[Jacksonian]

And, Dempster back to the Cubs.  http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ag43wpVOHP.szJuCoS0MsDA5nYcB?slug=ap-cubs-dempster&prov=ap&type=lgns

[BudGirl]

Just an excuse to go visit Brad out in Cali?

I don't need an excuse to do that.

[Russe]

Footer herself floated one of the rumors going around: Pence, Wright and James (substitute minor league pitchers). the statement above is a tad disingenous.

If Pence, Wright and James would have actually gotten us Peavy, and Drayton refused, he's insane. That might have been the steal of the century.

[JimR]

If Pence, Wright and James would have actually gotten us Peavy, and Drayton refused, he's insane. That might have been the steal of the century.

i did not say would, but Footer floated thoose names in saying "would this do it?"

[Andyzipp]

If Pence, Wright and James would have actually gotten us Peavy, and Drayton refused, he's insane. That might have been the steal of the century.

This was the starting point.  Add another minor league pitcher and some cash and you could of gotten Peavy.  Drayton didn't want to part with Pence.  This was not a decision made by WadeSmith.

[MusicMan]

This was the starting point.  Add another minor league pitcher and some cash and you could of gotten Peavy.  Drayton didn't want to part with Pence.  This was not a decision made by WadeSmith.

I will now light myself on fire.

[Lurch]

Dear Ed,
Told you. 

Merry Christmas!
-Gerry

[JimR]

This was the starting point.  Add another minor league pitcher and some cash and you could of gotten Peavy.  Drayton didn't want to part with Pence.  This was not a decision made by WadeSmith.

you gotta be kidding. holyfuckingshit.

Drayton, you are the biggest dumbass of any century.

any chance this could be revived to keep him out of Chicago?

[pravata]

Footer: "Let's face it, the notion that the team ranked 30th of the 30 teams in organizational talent could possibly have enough to land a 27-year-old Cy Young winner is absurd."

(Link from Pravata in NYCU)

The problem with this is that Towers is right now negotiating with the Cubs while admitting they don't have the organizational talent to do a deal and that a 3rd or even 4th team will have to be involved.

[Reuben]

oh, this is bad. this is very... very bad...

edit: unless the "other minor league pitcher" was a genetic clone of Johan Santana.

[Andyzipp]

you gotta be kidding. holyfuckingshit.

Drayton, you are the biggest dumbass of any century.

any chance this could be revived to keep him out of Chicago?

Drayton has at least one person telling him that Pence is the next Biggio or Bagwell.  And he's buying it.

[Noe]

The problem with this is that Towers is right now negotiating with the Cubs while admitting they don't have the organizational talent to do a deal and that a 3rd or even 4th team will have to be involved.

Yes and why I think the Cubs are being used to bring the Braves back to the table.  I believe (and this is only my opinion) that the Braves *know* that the Padres have absolutely no leverage to ask for top line players from them.  Peavey hamstrung the Padres by making a list... a very short list... pretty much the Braves, the Cardinals, the Astros, the Dodgers and the Cubs.  So the Braves, not the Padres, have all the leverage in such a negotiation.  Why should they entertain giving up top talent?  Well, only if the Padres say "Well, because if you don't, we'll pull the trigger on a deal with the.... ahum... (Astros?  No... that won't work.... Cardinals?  Hmmmm... see previous team....AHA!  CUBS!)  the Cubs... so, Braves... can you call me back?  Pleaseeeee!" 

[Noe]

Drayton has at least one person telling him that Pence is the next Biggio or Bagwell.  And he's buying it.

*sigh*  FIRE THAT PERSON!

[MusicMan]

Drayton has at least one person telling him that Pence is the next Biggio or Bagwell.  And he's buying it.

Fuck you, Pam Gardner.

[MusicMan]

Drayton, you are the biggest dumbass of any century.

List of people who think Drayton is a bad deal-maker:

Isiah Thomas
Neville Chamberlain
the native tribes of Manhattan


Feel free to add on.

[DVauthrin]

This was the starting point.  Add another minor league pitcher and some cash and you could of gotten Peavy.  Drayton didn't want to part with Pence.  This was not a decision made by WadeSmith.

Time to grab the pitch forks and the torches and head to Drayton's office.

[DVauthrin]

I will now light myself on fire.

I think a lynch mob at Drayton's office might be a better course of action.   You don't deserve to suffer.

[Noe]

List of people who think Drayton is a bad deal-maker:

Isiah Thomas
Neville Chamberlain
the native tribes of Manhattan


Feel free to add on.

The French, right after selling the Louisiana Territory to the United States.

[MusicMan]

The French, right after selling the Louisiana Territory to the United States.

Noted sports agent Master P.

[DVauthrin]

Noted sports agent Master P.

Agreed Stu Inman, the GM who took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. 

[Limey]

List of people who think Drayton is a bad deal-maker:

Isiah Thomas
Neville Chamberlain
the native tribes of Manhattan


Feel free to add on.

The people who bought into credit default swaps
The lady who coughed up $400,000 to the Nigerian scam
Steve Jobs (settling out of court with Microsoft over the theft of his GUI)

and, for you nerds out there...

Lando Calrissian

[DVauthrin]

The people who bought into credit default swaps
The lady who coughed up $400,000 to the Nigerian scam
Steve Jobs (settling out of court with Microsoft over the theft of his GUI)

and, for you nerds out there...

Lando Calrissian

Let's add people who played the stock market in 1929.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

and, for you nerds out there...

Lando Calrissian

ASIFY

[JackAstro]

Drayton has at least one person telling him that Pence is the next Biggio or Bagwell.  And he's buying it.

Someone should tell him that Jake Peavy is currently the current Jake Peavy. That would seem to be a valuable thing.

Seriously, I need to go break something.

[moriartp]

and, for you nerds out there...

Lando Calrissian

Nice.

[hostros7]

Drayton has at least one person telling him that Pence is the next Biggio or Bagwell.  And he's buying it.

And the worst part is probably that this assesment was probably based on the fact that he's handsome, anglo, and can really fill out a billboard... not that this person believes he will be a future hall of famer. 

[Jacksonian]

List of people who think Drayton is a bad deal-maker:

Isiah Thomas
Neville Chamberlain
the native tribes of Manhattan


Feel free to add on.

Alexander II

[Gizzmonic]

The people who bought into credit default swaps
The lady who coughed up $400,000 to the Nigerian scam
Steve Jobs (settling out of court with Microsoft over the theft of his GUI)

and, for you nerds out there...

Lando Calrissian

The Microsoft deal was a good one for Apple.  They convinced Microsoft to keep making Mac Office, which went a long way in keeping the platform viable.

[Limey]

The Microsoft deal was a good one for Apple.  They convinced Microsoft to keep making Mac Office, which went a long way in keeping the platform viable.

If Jobs had cut Gates off at the knees, he would've set back the development of a rival operating system by years, and Windows may never have become the dominant platform it is today.

[Noe]

If Jobs had cut Gates off at the knees, he would've set back the development of a rival operating system by years, and Windows may never have become the dominant platform it is today.

IBM giving Apple the research they did on a graphical operating system.

[Limey]

IBM giving Apple the research they did on a graphical operating system.

I thought Jobs got his start on a GUI by stealing learning it from Xerox.  The IBM leg-up for Microsoft was a result of Gates licensing DOS to IBM before he even owned the rights to it, IBM licensing its hardware to third party manufacturers and Gates building his Mac clone to run in DOS.

Apple retained control of its own hardware and software development, which meant that its products were much more stable and better integrated...but more expensive and less customisable.  Meanwhile, the market was flooded with cheap IBM compatibles running on DOS and pre-loaded with Windows, which were buggy as hell and crash prone.  Instead of reaching for excellence, the computer-using public simply learned to expect shit, as the cost of lost productivity is not as easily measured as the cost of a PC vs. a Mac.

Of course, without the blue screen of death, we'd never get to be entertained by stuff like this.

[Gizzmonic]

If Jobs had cut Gates off at the knees, he would've set back the development of a rival operating system by years, and Windows may never have become the dominant platform it is today.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the 1997 deal that got Apple to drop all legal complaints about Windows, while Microsoft bought some non-voting Apple stock and agreed to make Internet Explorer and Office for the next several years.  You're talking about some previous deal that I'm ignorant of.

[Noe]

I thought Jobs got his start on a GUI by stealing learning it from Xerox.  The IBM leg-up for Microsoft was a result of Gates licensing DOS to IBM before he even owned the rights to it, IBM licensing its hardware to third party manufacturers and Gates building his Mac clone to run in DOS.

Apple retained control of its own hardware and software development, which meant that its products were much more stable and better integrated...but more expensive and less customisable.  Meanwhile, the market was flooded with cheap IBM compatibles running on DOS and pre-loaded with Windows, which were buggy as hell and crash prone.  Instead of reaching for excellence, the computer-using public simply learned to expect shit, as the cost of lost productivity is not as easily measured as the cost of a PC vs. a Mac.

Of course, without the blue screen of death, we'd never get to be entertained by stuff like this.

Ah yes, my bad.  Apple did borrow the idea of a Graphical User Interface from Xerox PARC.  Ironically, PARC got the idea of a mouse from Doug Englebart (where the whole idea of a GUI eminated)... or at least hired away many of Engelbart's best research people... only to give the whole thing away to Jobs.

[homer]

IBM licensing its hardware to third party manufacturers

IBM did not license its hardware to third parties. The only proprietary part of the original IBM PC was the BIOS, and other companies simply reverse engineered the BIOS for their own compatibles... built largely from the same non-proprietary pieces.

Microsoft was the big winner because their agreement with IBM allowed them to sell MS-DOS to the other manufacturers.

[Limey]

IBM did not license its hardware to third parties. The only proprietary part of the original IBM PC was the BIOS, and other companies simply reverse engineered the BIOS for their own compatibles... built largely from the same non-proprietary pieces.

Microsoft was the big winner because their agreement with IBM allowed them to sell MS-DOS to the other manufacturers.

Cool, thanks.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

To put this thread back on track, I did some digging on the contracts/salaries and think I came up with some solid info.

Player Miguel Tejada Lance Berkman Roy Oswalt Carlos Lee Kazuo Matsui Jose Valverde Ty Wigginton Mark Loretta Doug Brocail Brad Ausmus Shawn Chacon Geoff Geary Oscar Villarreal Geoff Blum Darin Erstad Brandon Backe Tim Byrdak Dave Borkowski Jose Cruz Jr., Brian Moehler David Newhan Wandy Rodriguez Humberto Quintero Chris Sampson Michael Bourn Hunter Pence Reggie Abercrombie Paul Arias Paul Estrada Felipe Paulino J.R. Towles Wesley Wright Latroy Hawkins Woody Williams Bagwell Buyout Sammy Gervacio Brad James Fernando Nieve Polin Trinidad Maysonet Yordanny Ramirez Total

2008 Salary (US$)    $14,811,414 $14,500,000 $13,000,000 $12,500,000 $5,500,000 $4,700,000 $4,350,000 $2,750,000 $2,500,000 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $1,125,000 $1,125,000 $1,100,000 $1,000,000 $800,000 $712,000 $800,000 $650,000 $500,000 $525,000 $451,000 $405,000 $401,000 $396,000 $396,000 ?? $380,000 $390,000 $390,000 $390,000 $6,500,000 $10,000,000 $107,047,414

2009 Salary (US$)     $14,811,414 $14,500,000 $14,000,000 18,500,000 $5,500,000 $6,700,000 $6,700,000 $2,750,000 $3,200,000 - Estimate $0 $0 $1,500,000 - Estimate $1,125,000 $1,100,000 $1,750,000 $1,125,000 - Estimate $1,125,000 - Estimate $0 $0 $2,300,000 $0 - declined $1,200,000 - Estimate $800,000 - Estimate $800,000 - Estimate $800,000 - Estimate $800,000 - Estimate $405,000 - Estimate $396,000 - Estimate $450,000 - Estimate $450,000 - Estimate $390,000 - Estimate $650,000 - Estimate $3,500,000 $0 $0 $396,000 - Estimate $396,000 - Estimate $550,000 - Estimate $396,000 - Estimate $396,000 - Estimate $396,000 - Estimate $109,857,414

Obviously alot of these guys are still under club control and/or won't be on the roster all year.  Most of these players I had to estimate where they will fall salary wise but I tried to be generous, by normal standards, and doubled salaries for guys under club control that started or played regularly and performed well. 

Maybe these numbers are way off and under-value some of the folks under control because I'm simply not reaching this 120mil number that Wade and Justice are mentioning.  Yes, the salary figure was around 110mil last year  and will be again this year but a couple of big contracts are coming off the books - Bagwell and Williams.  I'm not accusing McLane of being cheap, although refusing to trade Pence in a Peavy trade is dumb from a baseball sense. 

The floating of Valverde and Wigginton strikes me as the Astros baiting the Padres to hold out while they try to get more valuable trade assets for a potential Peavy deal.  Trading those two and landing Peavy is virtually salary neutral, which is their stated goal. 

oh, and for the record, I got most of the committed values at http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/houston-astros.html

And yes, the void has me firmly in it's grasp as I considered this an entirely productive thing to do this morning....

[JimR]

To put this thread back on track,

thank you

[S.P. Rodriguez]

thank you

No need.  I had to study that in college, not totally sure why beyond a case study in poor forsight, and it was painfully boring back then too.

[JaneDoe]

To put this thread back on track, I did some digging on the contracts/salaries and think I came up with some solid info.
And yes, the void has me firmly in it's grasp as I considered this an entirely productive thing to do this morning....

Yes, very poo-ductive.  Thanks for the hard work.

[pravata]

This is getting ridiculous

Buster Olney says "...there are signs that the Jake Peavy-Atlanta talks figure to be back on."

He thinks the Braves will be pressured to offer more as the available free agents are signed by other teams.  Here's what he thinks is the deal,

Yunel Escobar is in the proposed deal, and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez will be, along with a pitcher, probably Jo-Jo Reyes, plus minor league pitchers. So the Braves stand to make a deal for the 2007 Cy Young Award winner without surrendering: (A) their top pitching prospect, Tommy Hanson; (B) their top outfield prospect, Jason Heyward; (C) The player who is thought by some scouts to be their second-best outfield prospect, Jordan Schaefer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3712344&name=olney_buster

an mlb.com reporter gets this,

On the trade front, the Padres continued to dangle Jake Peavy, but the narrow race between the Cubs and Braves for the 2007 National League Cy Young Award winner has dwindled further. The Cubs no longer are feeling a sense of urgency, with Dempster in hand, while the Braves are prepared to move on.

"There's other guys that we like, and there are other trade opportunities," Braves general manager Frank Wren told MLB.com. "The list isn't long, but there are other options out there."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3684352&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Joel Sherman NY Post speculates
The Yankees were told ... Yes, you have the prospects to get the ace righty, possibly even in packages that did not have to include Phil Hughes . But, no, he has no interest in pitching for the Yankees. So, pretty much, the Yankees have done nothing in the Peavy talks over the last several weeks except futilely take a few shots at brokering three-way trades in which Peavy went elsewhere...

why were the Cubs so publicly involved in the Peavy discussions? Yes, they were trying to find a three-team way toward Peavy. But they also were clearly trying to create leverage to get Ryan Dempster to make a quick, favorable decision back to them. ...
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/11/3_up_yanks_and.html

The Padres are trying to dump him and they're getting no takers.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Okay, so is the story that won't die or something else entirely?  I realize there are some viable pitching candidates on the market but why so little interest in Peavy?  Personally, I'm looking at that no-trade clause as the reason the Pads have less room for negotiation.

If this were the Astros in the same situation, dangling Roy Oswalt, I'd hope they would hold out til the trade deadline to maximize return value.  With that perspective, I think that unless someone meets the Pads current demands, that is exactly what will happen.  Damn you void... damn you to hell....

[Reuben]

Okay, so is the story that won't die or something else entirely?  I realize there are some viable pitching candidates on the market but why so little interest in Peavy?  Personally, I'm looking at that no-trade clause as the reason the Pads have less room for negotiation.

If this were the Astros in the same situation, dangling Roy Oswalt, I'd hope they would hold out til the trade deadline to maximize return value.  With that perspective, I think that unless someone meets the Pads current demands, that is exactly what will happen.  Damn you void... damn you to hell....

I would think so too, that they figure to get a better return mid-season when teams have fewer options and are feeling a little desperate. On the other hand, maybe baseball really is freaking out about the economy, and Towers feels like he needs to act now while teams still have room in their budget for a big contract like Peavy.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

If the Pads aren't able to unload Peavy until mid-season, where does that put the Astros?  There are so many variables: Peavy's 09 performance to that point in the season, the performance of Pence and the various Astros farmhands, the playoff picture (the dreaded "trade me to a contender" gambit), injuries on other teams that create demand.  Plenty of factors to increase or decrease the Astros' chances of landing Peavy.

[WakePhil]

Most of these players I had to estimate where they will fall salary wise but I tried to be generous

Thanks for the effort. Do you think $6.7 is generous for Valverde? I feel like larger numbers are thrown around for him. Dickie Justice said that double last year's salary would be a deal (for both Valverde and Wiggington), which is how he supported the larger estimate. $6.7 is right around Valverde's requested salary last year. No doubt he'll be requesting a much larger figure this year. To get $6.7 mil the Astros would have to win arbitration.

I'd think Geary could pull more than a $375k raise.

Still doesn't get to $120, but it definitely puts you a solid 12-15 over the $100 mil they want to spend, not including Wolf/Hampton/Peavy/whoever. Speaking of which, last years should be a bit higher for Wolf's portion.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Thanks for the effort. Do you think $6.7 is generous for Valverde? I feel like larger numbers are thrown around for him. Dickie Justice said that double last year's salary would be a deal (for both Valverde and Wiggington), which is how he supported the larger estimate. $6.7 is right around Valverde's requested salary last year. No doubt he'll be requesting a much larger figure this year. To get $6.7 mil the Astros would have to win arbitration.

I'd think Geary could pull more than a $375k raise.

Still doesn't get to $120, but it definitely puts you a solid 12-15 over the $100 mil they want to spend, not including Wolf/Hampton/Peavy/whoever. Speaking of which, last years should be a bit higher for Wolf's portion.

Is that generous?  I don't know but it was a bump over 40%.  So say it's 7.4mil or a 70% bump.  But what I realized is I had dropped Wolf out of the total.  Say he gets 12mil, that does put the Astros in the 120mil range.  Now it makes sense, completely over-looked the obvious.

[Astroholic]

Is that generous?  I don't know but it was a bump over 40%.  So say it's 7.4mil or a 70% bump.  But what I realized is I had dropped Wolf out of the total.  Say he gets 12mil, that does put the Astros in the 120mil range.  Now it makes sense, completely over-looked the obvious.

Not sure that resigning wolf is obvious.

[JimR]

hey, you guys with sources: are we making any effort to get back in the Peavy mix?

[Reuben]

Not sure that resigning wolf is obvious.

But that's what Wade was making his point about- that to re-sign Wolf, and keep the rest of the team together, would bump the payroll up to about $120 mil. What I'm wondering is, if they're really serious about trading Valverde and Wigginton, why they shouldn't just go ahead and do a mini-rebuilding and forget about 2009, because I don't see them having a chance to win without those two unless they get some real pleasant surprise years from several young guys (ie. Bourn, Pence, Paulino, Nieve, Norris, Johnson...).

[hostros7]

fwiw (very little), I agree, particularly push hard to unload Tejada to a desperate contender around the deadline (a la pudge to the yankees) and consider unloading Lee if it yielded near-MLB ready pitching or stud outfield talent.  Unless of course unloading Wiggy and Valverde allows you to sign Wolf and acquire another top 3/4 slot starter.

[BudGirl]

And the worst part is probably that this assesment was probably based on the fact that he's handsome, anglo, and can really fill out a billboard... not that this person believes he will be a future hall of famer. 

I've said it before, Pence his not handsome.  He's not ugly, but he's not handsome.

[MusicMan]

Let's say Pinwheel's broken clock is right today, and they are looking to move Valverde and Wigginton.

Don't the Indians seem like a natural fit?  They're looking for a 3b and a closer.  Kelly Shoppach + Franklin Gutierrez?

[Jacksonian]

Let's say Pinwheel's broken clock is right today, and they are looking to move Valverde and Wigginton.

Don't the Indians seem like a natural fit?  They're looking for a 3b and a closer.  Kelly Shoppach + Franklin Gutierrez?

Is that even?  Neither player was as good as Wiggy at the plate last year (Shoppach is more defense than offense anyway).  I'd think Valverde would garner at least as much as Lidge did.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Is that even?  Neither player was as good as Wiggy at the plate last year (Shoppach is more defense than offense anyway).  I'd think Valverde would garner at least as much as Lidge did.

Add the Angel's to the list of teams looking for a corner infielder and a closer.  I think I like their minor league/young talent more than I like the Indian's.

[MusicMan]

I would guess you could get more, but I'm not up on the Indians' prospects.

[pravata]

Let's say Pinwheel's broken clock is right today, and they are looking to move Valverde and Wigginton.

Don't the Indians seem like a natural fit?  They're looking for a 3b and a closer.  Kelly Shoppach + Franklin Gutierrez?

Justice isn't the first to speculate.  Alyson Footer got Wade to flat out say that they are not cutting payroll, Justice quotes "a club source".  Wade would be a club source.  Also, he has no source for his assertion that Valverde and Wigginton are "as good as gone" and that the Astros "seem likely to trade both of them".  While Ortiz got a quote from Wade saying they might have "to move one or two pieces off this club.”  This is a far cry from Justice's shit stirring certainty.  Wade is on a chat right now with Ortiz in his blog.  Wagers on how many direct questions he gets regarding specific trades?

[Jacksonian]

I would guess you could get more, but I'm not up on the Indians' prospects.

They got nice hauls in the Sabathia and Blake deals.  Their system is fine.  It just so happens that BA, for what it's worth, just came out with their top 10 for the Indians. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2009/267213.html  I'm not as up to speed on the Angels system.

[MusicMan]

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2008/11/join_astros_gm.html

Ed Wade:  I am not going to discuss potential trades.   In a perfect world, we are bringing everyone back from the 2008 club.   That's still our goal, but we have significant work in front of us.

Ed Wade:  As previously stated, we are not dropping payroll.   Our 2009 number will exceed last year's.   At the same time, there are limitations in the real world.   I think we are in a position to be a contending club despite the economic realities.

ChronicleSports:  MLB update (announcement by Astros today):
The Houston Astros announced today that the club has purchased the contracts of outfielder Brian Bogusevic and infielders Tommy Manzella and Drew Sutton, adding the players to the club’s 40-man roster

[Comment From Josh (Conroe)]
Why aren't y'all willing to put Pence in a deal for Peavy? I know McClane, and a lot of Astros fan, have a man-crush on Hunter, but if he could land Peavy it would be totally worth it. I know there would have to be a third team involved, but why not deal Valverde, since Justice apparently thinks y'all are going to, in a 3-way deal to get him? 
2:16 Ed Wade:  One of the rules that I have to be faithful to is that I do not discuss trades.   It's unfair to the teams involved and it is unfair to individual players to read or hear their names mentioned in trades that may never come to fruitiion.   I will say that I expect to see Hunter Pence playing in a lot of All Star Games, hopefully all of them in an Astros uniform. 

[Noe]

This is getting ridiculous

Buster Olney says "...there are signs that the Jake Peavy-Atlanta talks figure to be back on."

He thinks the Braves will be pressured to offer more as the available free agents are signed by other teams.  Here's what he thinks is the deal,

Yunel Escobar is in the proposed deal, and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez will be, along with a pitcher, probably Jo-Jo Reyes, plus minor league pitchers. So the Braves stand to make a deal for the 2007 Cy Young Award winner without surrendering: (A) their top pitching prospect, Tommy Hanson; (B) their top outfield prospect, Jason Heyward; (C) The player who is thought by some scouts to be their second-best outfield prospect, Jordan Schaefer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3712344&name=olney_buster

an mlb.com reporter gets this,

On the trade front, the Padres continued to dangle Jake Peavy, but the narrow race between the Cubs and Braves for the 2007 National League Cy Young Award winner has dwindled further. The Cubs no longer are feeling a sense of urgency, with Dempster in hand, while the Braves are prepared to move on.

"There's other guys that we like, and there are other trade opportunities," Braves general manager Frank Wren told MLB.com. "The list isn't long, but there are other options out there."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3684352&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Joel Sherman NY Post speculates
The Yankees were told ... Yes, you have the prospects to get the ace righty, possibly even in packages that did not have to include Phil Hughes . But, no, he has no interest in pitching for the Yankees. So, pretty much, the Yankees have done nothing in the Peavy talks over the last several weeks except futilely take a few shots at brokering three-way trades in which Peavy went elsewhere...

why were the Cubs so publicly involved in the Peavy discussions? Yes, they were trying to find a three-team way toward Peavy. But they also were clearly trying to create leverage to get Ryan Dempster to make a quick, favorable decision back to them. ...
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/11/3_up_yanks_and.html

The Padres are trying to dump him and they're getting no takers.

This pretty much fits the scenario(s) I've heard: Basically, the Braves are who the Padres would like to make a trade with, but the Braves, specifically GM Wren, do not feel that they are the ones without leverage here.  They will make the Padres come to the table with a lesser deal than they think they can wrangle off the Braves.  The Padres, on their part, want to create a market for Peavey (and are hamstrung by Peavey's wish list) so they can force the leverage back into their court.  Talks about the Yankees or Cubs or anyone else for that matter are right now seen as the Padres attempts at creating a market so that the Peavey deal is seen as a seller's market and not a buyers, specifically the Braves as the buyers, market.

[MusicMan]

And from the comically dumb department:

2:35 [Comment From Fred (New Caney)]
I hope you guys aren't seriously of the opinion that Brocail and Wolf are the answers to the starting rotation problems. 

2:36 Ed Wade:  Brocail is a reliever.   We were 10-2 in Wolf's starts last year and he was 6-2. 

[Duman]

From the stump the GM department:

2:50
   [Comment From Duman]
The draft last year has been impressive to this point as far as pitchers and Castro behind the plate. What position players made an impression during short season ball and instructionals?
2:52
   Ed Wade:  We did very well from a position player standpoint as well.   Jay Austin is a speed centerfielder who has a chance to be a tremendous player.   Chase Davidson, Tom Steele and Jack Shuck are three college outfielders who may come quickly.   I was very impressed with the pure power that Phil Disher showed at first base.   He has some defensive work ahead of him, but he's a hard worker and could be a serious offensive performer.   All in all, our draft showed great balance.

Chase Davidson, 1st baseman, Milton HS, Alpharetta Ga., Did not sign, was not on a short season roster or in instructionals.

[EasTexAstro]

From the stump the GM department:

Chase Davidson, 1st baseman, Milton HS, Alpharetta Ga., Did not sign, was not on a short season roster or in instructionals.

You weren't supposed to be paying attention...

[EasTexAstro]

...particularly push hard to unload Tejada to a desperate contender around the deadline (a la pudge to the yankees) and consider unloading Lee if it yielded near-MLB ready pitching or stud outfield talent...

Building for the future can be nice, but these are two extremely popular, performing, hard-wroking players. They also, possibly, help the Astros make a pitch to other players. To me, Tejada seems to be the next Bagwell on this team with his work ethic, tallent, and respect for the game and the fans.

I would be sad to see them go, FWIW.

[Jacksonian]

From the stump the GM department:

Chase Davidson, 1st baseman, Milton HS, Alpharetta Ga., Did not sign, was not on a short season roster or in instructionals.

I'm thinking he was talking about Gaston, though he didn't hit well in Tri-City, since he was the other college outfielder drafted nearly as high as Steele and (esp) Shuck.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Okay, I tried to read the transcript of yesterday's chat and all I can do is sigh and acknowledge that Wade has the patience of Job.  Wow! Just wow.  Calling those fans armchair GM doesn't even begin to describe the arrogance. 

I want to add something to the personal life philosphy thread, cross referencing it here:  Ask a question rather than assume an answer.

[astrosfan76]

I'm thinking he was talking about Gaston, though he didn't hit well in Tri-City, since he was the other college outfielder drafted nearly as high as Steele and (esp) Shuck.

Maybe Priday?  He was the first of the draft class to reach full-season ball.

[Jacksonian]

Maybe Priday?  He was the first of the draft class to reach full-season ball.

Perhaps.  But Priday did very little offensively as well and was drafted lower than the others.

[MusicMan]

Let's say Pinwheel's broken clock is right today, and they are looking to move Valverde and Wigginton.

Don't the Indians seem like a natural fit?  They're looking for a 3b and a closer.  Kelly Shoppach + Franklin Gutierrez?

"If Valverde is available, he's another guy we'd explore," said Shapiro.

[Reuben]

"If Valverde is available, he's another guy we'd explore," said Shapiro.

Cabrera's an Indian.

[Russe]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-23-rogers-whispersnov23,0,2640085.story

"Some people in Houston are beginning to show optimism that the Astros could be the team to pull off a Jake Peavy deal. Roy Oswalt has been telling Peavy that as a 1-2 punch they would make Houston competitive again."

Hope springs eternal.

[Noe]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-23-rogers-whispersnov23,0,2640085.story

"Some people in Houston are beginning to show optimism that the Astros could be the team to pull off a Jake Peavy deal. Roy Oswalt has been telling Peavy that as a 1-2 punch they would make Houston competitive again."

Hope springs eternal.

All it would take is Drayton McLane ending his ill informed love affair with Hunter Pence and a deal could be done.  Some folks believe that Houston would need to get a three way deal done to avoid dealing Pence, but I doubt it can be done that way unless Houston were to part with some players to the third team (say Wiggington and Valverde), get some prospects that would entice the Padres, and keep Pence in the fold.   That is harder to do.  Another scenario could be the Padres showing interest in guys like Bogesevic and Sutton now that both have opened eyes in the AFL.  I think Bogey *might* be a better major leaguer in the long run than Pence will ever be, but that's just my opinion.

[BudGirl]

People need to start calling the talk shows wanting to trade Pence.  Maybe one of the best ways to get the word to Drayton that not everyone loves Pence, but we would all love Peavy.

[DVauthrin]

All it would take is Drayton McLane ending his ill informed love affair with Hunter Pence and a deal could be done.  Some folks believe that Houston would need to get a three way deal done to avoid dealing Pence, but I doubt it can be done that way unless Houston were to part with some players to the third team (say Wiggington and Valverde), get some prospects that would entice the Padres, and keep Pence in the fold.   That is harder to do.  Another scenario could be the Padres showing interest in guys like Bogesevic and Sutton now that both have opened eyes in the AFL.  I think Bogey *might* be a better major leaguer in the long run than Pence will ever be, but that's just my opinion.

So all we need to do is show Drayton that Hunter is in love with another? 

[Gizzmonic]

So all we need to do is show Drayton that Hunter is in love with another? 

If you mean, post more pictures of his girlfriend...then...yes, by all means.

[JimR]

All it would take is Drayton McLane ending his ill informed love affair with Hunter Pence and a deal could be done.  Some folks believe that Houston would need to get a three way deal done to avoid dealing Pence, but I doubt it can be done that way unless Houston were to part with some players to the third team (say Wiggington and Valverde), get some prospects that would entice the Padres, and keep Pence in the fold.   That is harder to do.  Another scenario could be the Padres showing interest in guys like Bogesevic and Sutton now that both have opened eyes in the AFL.  I think Bogey *might* be a better major leaguer in the long run than Pence will ever be, but that's just my opinion.

Noe, does he listen to anyone who is inclined to deliver this message?

[Noe]

Noe, does he listen to anyone who is inclined to deliver this message?

I don't really know, so it would be hard to say empirically.

[pravata]

Braves are out, Cubs are now out,

The Chicago Sun-Times' Gordon Wittenmyer asked Piniella at an event in Chicago on Sunday whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting pitching in the wake of their four-year contract extension with free agent right-hander Ryan Dempster.

"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692094&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Sure, you can always have too much pitching.

[Noe]

Braves are out, Cubs are now out,

The Chicago Sun-Times' Gordon Wittenmyer asked Piniella at an event in Chicago on Sunday whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting pitching in the wake of their four-year contract extension with free agent right-hander Ryan Dempster.

"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692094&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

Sure, you can always have too much pitching.

I always thought the Cubs were just a pawn, but it looks like the Cubs had their own agenda to use the Peavey situation to get Dempster to the negotiation table and make the deal they did.  Smart move.

[austro]

I always thought the Cubs were just a pawn, but it looks like the Cubs had their own agenda to use the Peavey situation to get Dempster to the negotiation table and make the deal they did.  Smart move.

Hendry worries me. He may have a clue.

[offthelidge]

Rumor on 790 of a possible menage-a-trade:

Valverde & Wiggington to the Indians
Peavy & Marte to the Astros
Pence & 3 Indians prospects to the Padres

[JimR]

Rumor on 790 of a possible menage-a-trade:

Valverde & Wiggington to the Indians
Peavy & Marte to the Astros
Pence & 3 Indians prospects to the Padres

please.

[Jacksonian]

Rumor on 790 of a possible menage-a-trade:

Valverde & Wiggington to the Indians
Peavy & Marte to the Astros
Pence & 3 Indians prospects to the Padres

Is this "hey, this would be a good trade" idle speculation?  Or, sources say this is the trade being discussed?

[Andyzipp]

Is this "hey, this would be a good trade" idle speculation?  Or, sources say this is the trade being discussed?

Sources say...this thing ain't dead yet.

[JimR]

Sources say...this thing ain't dead yet.

please thank your sources for me. seems to me, if Roy told Drayton in no uncertain terms what he wants, Drayton might listen.

[Jacksonian]

Sources say...this thing ain't dead yet.

Has there ever been any question that any deals involving Valverde and Wigginton were an effort to get prospects to entice the Padres?  I just assumed the Astros wouldn't get enough to get the Pads to go for it.

[MusicMan]

From our perspective, this is Valverde/Wiggy/PENCE!!! for Peavy and Marte?

Yes, yes, yes.  All day long.  Even if Marte never figures it out.

[Noe]

From our perspective, this is Valverde/Wiggy/PENCE!!! for Peavy and Marte?

Yes, yes, yes.  All day long.  Even if Marte never figures it out.

The Valverde and Wiggy salaries will offset the Peavey salary and make Drayton happy.  Pence might be what makes him unhappy, but as Jim noted, if Roy speaks (just like when Baggy or Biggio spoke), Drayton listens.  Sources won't say if this has legs, but it's playing out like what was expected to be the scenario (however, dealing Pence is a piece most said would not happen).  I'm skeptical about Pence going away myself, so maybe Wiggy/Valverde and someone else is more like the deal that *could* be made.

I think (my guess) that talks like this are going on, but nothing definitive other than Houston is trying.

[JimR]

The Valverde and Wiggy salaries will offset the Peavey salary and make Drayton happy.  Pence might be what makes him unhappy, but as Jim noted, if Roy speaks (just like when Baggy or Biggio spoke), Drayton listens.  Sources won't say if this has legs, but it's playing out like what was expected to be the scenario (however, dealing Pence is a piece most said would not happen).  I'm skeptical about Pence going away myself, so maybe Wiggy/Valverde and someone else is more like the deal that *could* be made.

any idea as to the someone else? in general, making the deal to me is more important than who is in the deal. there are exceptions to that generalization, of course, but this club is dead without better pitching.

[offthelidge]

Is this "hey, this would be a good trade" idle speculation?  Or, sources say this is the trade being discussed?

A caller asked Charlie Pillow if there was any truth to it.  Charlie seemed to imply that the rumor does indeed have legs, and complimented the lucky listener on "connecting the pieces".

[S.P. Rodriguez]

From our perspective, this is Valverde/Wiggy/PENCE!!! for Peavy and Marte?

Yes, yes, yes.  All day long.  Even if Marte never figures it out.

I don't know.  Marte looks like a NL player to me.  He's solid w/ the glove but can't hit right handers.  I haven't seen that much of him but he could easily fill the righty side of a 3B platoon w/ Blum and serve as your RH PH off the bench. 

He's young and cheap, those are the key things they were looking at for that role, no?  Even with his limited PT, he's still got more Major league exposure than most of the in-house options.  Figure it our or not, I think he could be useful to an NL team, that's all I'm saying.

[Ty in Tampa]

...Charlie Pillow...

I chuckled.

[pravata]

A caller asked Charlie Pillow if there was any truth to it.  Charlie seemed to imply that the rumor does indeed have legs, and complimented the lucky listener on "connecting the pieces".

Old Chuckles has zero contacts.  He's speculating along with the rest of the listeners.

[Noe]

Old Chuckles has zero contacts.  He's speculating along with the rest of the listeners.

I think this is correct, it's speculation on the part of a listener and 790 signed off on the speculation as being viable.  The thing to remember here is this: Houston and San Diego are talking.  Houston has resisted trading Pence and I doubt that is going to change, so that part of the speculation seems far fetched to me.  The other part does not.  If you trade Valverde and Wiggington for say two prospects and Marte, you'll have gathered enough prospects from Cleveland to maybe sway the Pads off Pence and use Brad James from your own system along with one of the Cleveland prospects (perhaps both) with cash to get Peavey.

Remember, Peavey doesn't have to get traded, but the Padres are in serious need of trimming payroll and they have exhausted their time trying to get the Braves to bite on a deal (even when they used the Cubs as leverage, the Braves didn't blink).  Houston has a shot and they are talking about a deal... but what it would take right now is speculation on all fronts and one of the more popular thoughts is Valverdea/Wiggington to a third team for prospects, then prospects and Pence to San Diego.  That again, is the popular view from outsiders looking at what it might take for Houston to make a deal... not necessarily what Houston is trying to do.

[Andyzipp]

Say this takes place...is Hawkins the closer?  That seems less than a good idea.

[MusicMan]

Paulino?

[Noe]

Say this takes place...is Hawkins the closer?  That seems less than a good idea.

Unfortunately, what he did late last year probably has given rise to the idea that it is *not* a bad idea.  No idea what Houston would have as a backup plan.  Damn shame Felipe Paulino isn't farther along as he should be because he could've been the next good young closer to come out of the Houston system, iffin you ask me.

[Noe]

Paulino?

Damn, beat me by mere seconds!

[Jacksonian]

Unfortunately, what he did late last year probably has given rise to the idea that it is *not* a bad idea.  No idea what Houston would have as a backup plan.  Damn shame Felipe Paulino isn't farther along as he should be because he could've been the next good young closer to come out of the Houston system, iffin you ask me.

Do not count out Bud Norris in consideration.  The impression he made out of the bullpen in the AFL was significant.

[Ty in Tampa]

Do not count out Bud Norris in consideration.

Someone counted out Bud Norris a while ago. All they found were his shoes and a pocket calculator.

[Noe]

Do not count out Bud Norris in consideration.  The impression he made out of the bullpen in the AFL was significant.

Good call.  Also, don't count out the things Bogesevic (sp?) has done in his limited time as an outfielder in Houston's system.  He not only shows promise, word is he's making people stand up and notice that this is not a flukish thing happening here.  The guy can legitimately hit and plays a good right field.  For an outfielder, that is huge.  The concern has been if he can develop power with his level swing and he's starting to answer some of those concerns with his AFL stint.  You watch that guy swing a bat for any amount of time and you know he's not a fluke, he's a legit hitter.  With an aging Brian Giles and a park that is hard to hit homeruns in, the Padres might be looking Bogey's way now (my own thought, no one has said this to me at all).  I would be.  In fact, why the Padres would want Hunter Pence is beyond me.  Right handed batters have trouble hitting for power in San Diego and Pence has a huge hole in his swing because he won't generate enough power to right field to keep the opposing team honest.  I think Pence's numbers will go down in San Diego, not up.

[JimR]

Good call.  Also, don't count out the things Bogesevic (sp?) has done in his limited time as an outfielder in Houston's system.  He not only shows promise, word is he's making people stand up and notice that this is not a flukish thing happening here.  The guy can legitimately hit and plays a good right field.  For an outfielder, that is huge.  The concern has been if he can develop power with his level swing and he's starting to answer some of those concerns with his AFL stint.  You watch that guy swing a bat for any amount of time and you know he's not a fluke, he's a legit hitter.  With an aging Brian Giles and a park that is hard to hit homeruns in, the Padres might be looking Bogey's way now (my own thought, no one has said this to me at all).  I would be.  In fact, why the Padres would want Hunter Pence is beyond me.  Right handed batters have trouble hitting for power in San Diego and Pence has a huge hole in his swing because he won't generate enough power to right field to keep the opposing team honest.  I think Pence's numbers will go down in San Diego, not up.

SHHHHH!

[MusicMan]

Dear Padres:

Hunter Pence will run through walls and put AIS.  And he will never, ever blink.  IT is only with greatest reluctance that we would surrender him in any deal.

[Jacksonian]

Good call.  Also, don't count out the things Bogesevic (sp?) has done in his limited time as an outfielder in Houston's system.  He not only shows promise, word is he's making people stand up and notice that this is not a flukish thing happening here.  The guy can legitimately hit and plays a good right field.  For an outfielder, that is huge.  The concern has been if he can develop power with his level swing and he's starting to answer some of those concerns with his AFL stint.  You watch that guy swing a bat for any amount of time and you know he's not a fluke, he's a legit hitter.  With an aging Brian Giles and a park that is hard to hit homeruns in, the Padres might be looking Bogey's way now (my own thought, no one has said this to me at all).  I would be.  In fact, why the Padres would want Hunter Pence is beyond me.  Right handed batters have trouble hitting for power in San Diego and Pence has a huge hole in his swing because he won't generate enough power to right field to keep the opposing team honest.  I think Pence's numbers will go down in San Diego, not up.

Bogusevic was a legitimate 1st round prospect as an outfielder in 2005.  The Astros wanted him to pitch.  Several teams would have put him in the outfield.  He was considered a 5-tool player.  The only question should have been whether he could shake off the rust.  He's nearly there.

[Noe]

Bogusevic was a legitimate 1st round prospect as an outfielder in 2005.  The Astros wanted him to pitch.  Several teams would have put him in the outfield.  He was considered a 5-tool player.  The only question should have been whether he could shake off the rust.  He's nearly there.

If all things go as they are currently going, he's going to really push for a starting outfield job late next season or early in 2010.  He looks really good.

[Jacksonian]

If all things go as they are currently going, he's going to really push for a starting outfield job late next season or early in 2010.  He looks really good.

Look out for a hot early 2009 and pressure on Drayton from the media to take Bourn out for Bogusevic.

[Noe]

Look out for a hot early 2009 and pressure on Drayton from the media to take Bourn out for Bogusevic.

Ugh.  The media will probably do just that... and if Pence is still on the team, they'll say "Move Pence to CF and bat him leadoff!".

[Jacksonian]

Ugh.  The media will probably do just that... and if Pence is still on the team, they'll say "Move Pence to CF and bat him leadoff!".

No, Bogusevic to center and leadoff.

[otterjb]

If that hypo-trade has any legs, then make it happen Drayton, make it happen Wade, and someone slip Pam some tranquilizers.

The thought of Oswalt/Peavy pitching 2 out of every 5 days just made it move a little.

[kevwun]

Pallilo doesn't have sources, but David Dalati does.  Remember that he was on to the Tejada deal first.

[pravata]

If that hypo-trade has any legs, then make it happen Drayton, make it happen Wade, and someone slip Pam some tranquilizers.

The thought of Oswalt/Peavy pitching 2 out of every 5 days just made it move a little.

Nothing else will make the Astros a legitimate contender.  Pence isn't a difference maker.  Lee and Berkman should be enough offense for day to day purposes.

[otterjb]

Nothing else will make the Astros a legitimate contender.  Pence isn't a difference maker.  Lee and Berkman should be enough offense for day to day purposes.

Agree completely.

[jaklewein]

Wow oh wow what a Thanksgiving this could be!  Happy Thanksgiving to all by the way.

[toddthebod]

If that hypo-trade has any legs, then make it happen Drayton, make it happen Wade, and someone slip Pam some tranquilizers.

The thought of Oswalt/Peavy pitching 2 out of every 5 days just made it move a little.

Who is pitching the other three nights?  If the Astros trade for Peavy does that mean no Wolf?  Does this mean Backe pitching every fifth day?

[JimR]

Those issues are present regardless

[MRaup]

Who is pitching the other three nights?  If the Astros trade for Peavy does that mean no Wolf?  Does this mean Backe pitching every fifth day?

The point is it takes one of our medicore to shitty bottom end starting pitching out of the rotation, which helps.

[roadrunner]

Are Pam/Drayton really this ignorant? 

I would think Peavy would bring in attendance similar to the way Clemens and Pettitte did, especially in his first hypothetical season in Houston.  Teenage girls may like Hunter Pence, but Oswalt/Peavy are more likely the new Biggio/Bagwell than Pence/Berkman will ever be.

And this is setting aside the obvious fact that the team is vastly superior with Peavy in the rotation.

[Ron Brand]

Winning brings attendance.

[Andyzipp]

Are Pam/Drayton really this ignorant? 

I would think Peavy would bring in attendance similar to the way Clemens and Pettitte did, especially in his first hypothetical season in Houston.  Teenage girls may like Hunter Pence, but Oswalt/Peavy are more likely the new Biggio/Bagwell than Pence/Berkman will ever be.

You'd think incorrectly.  the Ticket-buying public has never heard of Jake Peavy.  They'll respond to winning, after the fact, but no one with a casual interest in going to MMPUS is going to buy tickets to see Jake Peavy pitch.

Which is sad.

[homer]

You'd think incorrectly.  the Ticket-buying public has never heard of Jake Peavy.  They'll respond to winning, after the fact, but no one with a casual interest in going to MMPUS is going to buy tickets to see Jake Peavy pitch.

Which is sad.

You mean the same people who still wear their Clemens or Pettitte Astros jerseys?

[roadrunner]

You'd think incorrectly.  the Ticket-buying public has never heard of Jake Peavy.  They'll respond to winning, after the fact, but no one with a casual interest in going to MMPUS is going to buy tickets to see Jake Peavy pitch.

Which is sad.

I don't know.  You're probably right, I just can't or refuse to believe that.  

[pravata]

I don't know.  You're probably right, I just can't or refuse to believe that.  

It's a shame too, they could start a new fan dress up group, the Peavy Pee...ers, people are morans.

[EasTexAstro]

It's a shame too, they could start a new fan dress up group, the Peavy Pee...ers, people are morans.

...more animal costumes....The Pet Peaves....

[pravata]

...more animal costumes....The Pet Peaves....

That's fun for everyone.

[Andyzipp]

Peavy's Beavers.  They'll take all comers.

[MusicMan]

Peavy's Beavers are open to all?

[jaklewein]

Peavy's Beavers are open to all?

Peavy's Beavers:  "Open to all who can hit the walls and work the middle."

[Señor Stan]

Dear Padres:

Hunter Pence will run through walls sliding glass doors and put AIS.  And he will never, ever blink.  IT is only with greatest reluctance that we would surrender him in any deal.

fify

[pravata]

Cubs very much alive for Peavy

'K

By Barry Rozner | Daily Herald Columnist and Intertoobs novice http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=253802

Don't believe for a moment that the Cubs are out of the Jake Peavy derby....

on whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting Peavy,
"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692094&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

In fact, the Cubs have become the leaders in the Peavy chase, mostly because Chicago is his first choice, and the Cubs might be the Padres' only option, according to sources close to the situation.

Peavy "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6064564.html

As for adding a left-handed bat to play right field, the Cubs could kill two birds with one stone by trading for Peavy and right fielder Brian Giles, ...

Sure why not.  

While some are unimpressed with what the Padres would take in return, it's understandable when you realize the corner into which the Padres have painted themselves. ...the Pads need live bodies, so Ronny Cedeno and Josh Vitters make sense, but if the Cubs need to add Felix Pie, or substitute in pitcher Jose Ascanio or infielder Mike Fontenot, so be it...

Why only be unimpressed with what they could give for Peavy, expand your horizons, be unimpressed by what they could give for Giles too.

And as of this moment, the Cubs are the only horse in the race.

Trade our trash for your gold. Makes sense to me. Because,

...the Padres have an owner in the midst of a divorce who's being forced to sell half the team ...

49% and still retain control the team, plus bring in other investors from San Diego who have even more money,

The Padres yesterday described as “highly speculative” a report that John Moores, the club's majority owner since 1994, will sell 49 percent of the team as part of a divorce settlement ...Moores bought 80 percent of the Padres in 1994 for a reported $80 million
Padres board member Dan Okimoto said yesterday, in response to the report, that he has not heard details relating to a sale of club shares. He praised Moores' stewardship of the club and said he would “take comfort” if Moores remains in charge of the franchise.
“My sense is John is still committed to the Padres and enjoys his role as the owner,”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081010/news_1s10padsale.html

The Jacobs family, the founders of Qualcomm, and "one another unidentified local family appear interested in buying that interest in the team." However, under terms of a sale, John Moores would "still be the majority owner. He’d still be calling the shots,...http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/124594

A guy like Ronnie Cedeno can't help but get investors and fans excited ...

So don't be fooled by talk that the Cubs are done with Jake Peavy.
Not only are they still interested, but they may also be the Padres' only chance - and Peavy's only choice.

Charlie Pillow thinks you haven't connected your dots Mr Rozner.  Nor probably followed the maze to get to the Pony.

[Jacksonian]

Cubs very much alive for Peavy

'K

By Barry Rozner | Daily Herald Columnist and Intertoobs novice http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=253802

Don't believe for a moment that the Cubs are out of the Jake Peavy derby....

on whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting Peavy,
"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692094&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

In fact, the Cubs have become the leaders in the Peavy chase, mostly because Chicago is his first choice, and the Cubs might be the Padres' only option, according to sources close to the situation.

Peavy "Houston would probably be a team that I’d most like to be with if I had to be traded."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6064564.html

As for adding a left-handed bat to play right field, the Cubs could kill two birds with one stone by trading for Peavy and right fielder Brian Giles, ...

Sure why not.  

While some are unimpressed with what the Padres would take in return, it's understandable when you realize the corner into which the Padres have painted themselves. ...the Pads need live bodies, so Ronny Cedeno and Josh Vitters make sense, but if the Cubs need to add Felix Pie, or substitute in pitcher Jose Ascanio or infielder Mike Fontenot, so be it...

Why only be unimpressed with what they could give for Peavy, expand your horizons, be unimpressed by what they could give for Giles too.

And as of this moment, the Cubs are the only horse in the race.

Trade our trash for your gold. Makes sense to me. Because,

...the Padres have an owner in the midst of a divorce who's being forced to sell half the team ...

49% and still retain control the team, plus bring in other investors from San Diego who have even more money,

The Padres yesterday described as “highly speculative” a report that John Moores, the club's majority owner since 1994, will sell 49 percent of the team as part of a divorce settlement ...Moores bought 80 percent of the Padres in 1994 for a reported $80 million
Padres board member Dan Okimoto said yesterday, in response to the report, that he has not heard details relating to a sale of club shares. He praised Moores' stewardship of the club and said he would “take comfort” if Moores remains in charge of the franchise.
“My sense is John is still committed to the Padres and enjoys his role as the owner,”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081010/news_1s10padsale.html

The Jacobs family, the founders of Qualcomm, and "one another unidentified local family appear interested in buying that interest in the team." However, under terms of a sale, John Moores would "still be the majority owner. He’d still be calling the shots,...http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/124594

A guy like Ronnie Cedeno can't help but get investors and fans excited ...

So don't be fooled by talk that the Cubs are done with Jake Peavy.
Not only are they still interested, but they may also be the Padres' only chance - and Peavy's only choice.

Charlie Pillow thinks you haven't connected your dots Mr Rozner.  Nor probably followed the maze to get to the Pony.

"Asked if there might be an offer from another club regarding Peavy lurking in the background, Towers said no."

[jaklewein]

"Asked if there might be an offer from another club regarding Peavy lurking in the background, Towers said no."

Of course...when I hear the answer of "no" regarding trades, that's when I actually start to think "Hey, there might actually be something to this." 

[homer]

Yahoo's Tim Brown: ...Kevin Towers said Wednesday night he might have identified a third team that would facilitate sending the standout pitcher to the Cubs...

[Noe]

Yahoo's Tim Brown: ...Kevin Towers said Wednesday night he might have identified a third team that would facilitate sending the standout pitcher to the Cubs...

The report out of Chicago that the Padres would have to settle for the Cubs second tier prospects was suspect.  Towers is trying hard to create a market and he has time on his side to do just that.  Here is the question though, if the Cubs are not willing to part with top talent, what do they have to trade to a third team to get back the prospects?  Unless we're talking about Pittsburgh and Cam Bonifay wearing high heels, fishnets and a leather mini, what team would line up to be the Cub's beeyotch team to take scrubs for good to great players?

I think all teams involved in this whole affair with Peavey know that this is a game of chicken: who blinks first?

(Hendry) "hello Kevin... look, I know we had some disconnect on the whole Mark Prior trade... sorry about trying to steal away prospects from you, no hard feelings.  Any way... how about I center a trade for Peavey around Cedeno?  Sound good to you, huh?"

(Towers)"dude, you make my head hurt... call me back later, gotta go"

later....

(Hendry)"hello Kevin, okay, so I tried to rape you again with that whole Cedeno trade... sorry about that... again.  No hard feelings.  Anyway, so do you think you can help me find a sucker...errrr... third team to work a Cedeno for Peavey trade?"

(Towers)"you know, the market for backup shortstops is really... well... razor thin.  But you know, I've had luck stealing... errr... dealing with the (insert sucker team here).  I'll call you later, let me put out some feelers."

(Hendry) "AWESOME!  Ahum... I mean... ah... I'd hate to part with Cedeno, he's very (*snicker*) critical to our team's makeup, you know.  In fact, Cedeno is next to untouchable and I'm taking a big risk making this deal...."

(Towers) "dude, really... *SHUT UP ALREADY*... you really make my head hurt."

*click*

later...

(Towers) "hello, Frank Wren please... want to let him know about my latest Cub deal on the table..."

(Wren/Braves) "what now Kevin"

(Towers) "well... guess what, I like you Frank... really, I do... and I cannot move one step further with the Cubs without letting you in on a deal that is *VERY* close..."

(Wren) "sure... (*sigh*)... let me hear the latest bull... errr... moves"

[toddthebod]

Those issues are present regardless

Yes, but if the Astros can resign Randy Wolf or some other free agent pitcher, maybe they don't have to give up Wigginton, Valverde, and Pence.  Yeah Peavy is a lot better than Wolf (although you wouldn't know it from last year), but it just seems like a lot to give up when the trade would hurt the bullpen and the overall team offense.

[Lurch]

Who is pitching the other three nights?  If the Astros trade for Peavy does that mean no Wolf?  Does this mean Backe pitching every fifth day?

Astros slow negotiations with Wolf.

(and for your own sanity, please ignore the comments section.  Apparently no one will ever go to an Astro's game again.  These fuckers remind me of the "I'm moving to Canada if..." crowd.)

[Bench]

Astros slow negotiations with Wolf.

(and for your own sanity, please ignore the comments section.  Apparently no one will ever go to an Astro's game again.  These fuckers remind me of the "I'm moving to Canada if..." crowd.)

At least they have baseball in Canada.  These guys would cut off their own nose to spite their nanook.

[hostros7]

Assume this means the Braves are out of the running for Peavy.  Probably improves MF'ing Cubs negotiating leverage

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740201

Ignore the retarded Reyes for Reyes headline.  It's Vasquez.

[Noe]

Assume this means the Braves are out of the running for Peavy.  Probably improves MF'ing Cubs negotiating leverage

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740201

Ignore the retarded Reyes for Reyes headline.  It's Vasquez.

Jo-Jo Reyes is about the equivalent of Sean Marshall or Olson from the Orioles.  Even if you give up Marshall *AND* Olson for Peavey, you could still get a better haul from Atlanta... or could have.  Looks like Towers must of pissed off Wren with his tatics.

[pravata]

Braves have traded for Javier Vazquez and rumored to have offered AJ Burnett 5 years.
http://www.talkingchop.com/2008/12/3/678731/a-major-league-source-has
http://braves.scout.com/2/817859.html

[BUWebguy]

Peavy-to-Cubs overstated? From Stark:

It's funny how none of the Jake Peavy-to-the-Cubs rumors these days seem to be originating on the north side of Chicago. In fact, one Cubs official told a source that they consider their talks with the Padres to be "not active" at the moment. The Cubs actually appear to be stuck in serious payroll limbo right now until the identity of their new owner is revealed. And that might be weeks away. So unless they can subtract salary (namely, Jason Marquis), they have no room to add a salary as hefty as Peavy's -- for now, at least.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3742826&searchName=stark_jayson&campaign=rsssrch&source=jayson_stark&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3742826%26searchName%3dstark_jayson%26campaign%3drsssrch%26source%3djayson_stark

[WakePhil]

Per a radio interview with Towers, they hope the Khalil trade will let them keep Peavy.

http://www.gaslampball.com/2008/12/5/682533/towers-traded-khalil-so-th

[Savage]

If this WSJ report that Tribune may file for bankruptcy as early as this week is correct, it's going to be hard to see the Cubs take on any more payroll until the team is sold:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122868944355686385.html?mod=testMod

[jonbloozy]

Cubs resuscitate trade talks with Peavy

The Cubs are believed to have received the go-ahead to slightly increase their payroll, from $130 million to about $140 million, which could provide just enough room to add another big player, provided they can trade off a high-salaried piece or two, perhaps starting with pitcher Jason Marquis.

[BizidyDizidy]

Tribune Co filed today.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Tribune-files-for-bankruptcy-apf-13773627.html

[JackAstro]

Tribune Co filed today.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Tribune-files-for-bankruptcy-apf-13773627.html

"Zell said the Cubs are not part of the bankruptcy filing."

[Gizzmonic]

Buck Martinez was saying on XM this morning that the Phillies are interested in Peavy.  Kevin Towers supposedly said they will either deal Peavy or take him off the table before the end of the winter meetings.

[JackAstro]

Kevin Towers supposedly said they will either deal Peavy or take him off the table before the end of the winter meetings.

Artificial deadlines are great for generating urgency. I wonder how many GMs are buying it.

[Andyzipp]

Buck Martinez was saying on XM this morning that the Phillies are interested in Peavy.  Kevin Towers supposedly said they will either deal Peavy or take him off the table before the end of the winter meetings.

Kevin Towers says a lot of things.

[Deja Vu]

"Zell said the Cubs are not part of the bankruptcy filing."

I'm sure Tribune's bondholders will gladly go along with this (/sarcasm).

[BUWebguy]

Peavy to Cubs not "remotely close":
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3757369

These "sources" are all over the place on this one.

[MusicMan]

Sporting News claims it may be a four-way deal

[JimR]

disgusting, if true.

[cougar]

Sporting News claims it may be a four-way deal

The Orioles are involved?  OK, I'm lost, how does Oswalt and/or Berkman fit into all of this?  And where are the Mets?

I'm just gonna ride that dead horse to the finish line...

[JaneDoe]

The Orioles are involved?  OK, I'm lost, how does Oswalt and/or Berkman fit into all of this?  And where are the Mets?

I'm just gonna ride that dead horse to the finish line...

You forgot Lastings Milledge.

[Bench]

Sporting News claims it may be a four-way deal

It's hard to believe that Mark DeRosa is the key to the whole deal.

[MusicMan]

It's hard to believe that Mark DeRosa is the key to the whole deal.

If Rick Moranis was The Keymaster, I can believe this.

[JimR]

It's hard to believe that Mark DeRosa is the key to the whole deal.

if we still had Speirs, we could get the entire fucking Padres team.

[Reuben]

Towers is running neck-and-neck with Drayton McLane for the honor of most bewilderingly stupid MLB exec.

[cougar]

You forgot Lastings Milledge.

I came THIS CLOSE *fingers an 1/8 of an inch apart* from mentioning Lastings, but I figured enough was enough.  I'll go the extra mile next time.

[Gizzmonic]

Everyone probably already heard this, but the Blagojevich scandal apparently has a little tie-in with the Cubs.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Blagojevich also threatened to stall the sale of Wrigley Field, owned by the Tribune Co., if the Chicago Tribune newspaper failed to fire members of the editorial board who were critical of the governor, Mr. Fitzgerald claimed. In a Nov. 4 phone call, Mr. Blagojevich allegedly told Mr. Harris he should tell the Tribune: "Our recommendation is fire all those [expletive] people, get 'em the [expletive] out of there and get us some editorial support."



Wow.

[Ebby Calvin]

In a Nov. 4 phone call, Mr. Blagojevich allegedly told Mr. Harris he should tell the Tribune: "Our recommendation is fire all those [expletive] people, get 'em the [expletive] out of there and get us some editorial support."

Wow.

You expect more from a Cubs fan?

[Gizzmonic]

I have absolutely no sympathy for the Cubune.  They already scalp tickets, blatantly violating their agreement to the city to keep tickets under a certain dollar amount.  (An idiot judge ruled this was technically legal).  Maybe they should taken the disgraced Mr. Blagojevich's offer.

[MusicMan]

At this point, a Mark Cuban purchase of the Cubs would have been perfect.

[austro]

Maybe they should taken the disgraced Mr. Blagojevich's offer.

To fuck themselves? Absolutely.

[Crusher_Joe]

Per Ken Rosenthal at Fox Sports

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8927566/Pads-GM:-Cubs%27-pursuit-of-Peavy-is-over

"1:00 p.m. — Cubs out of Peavy chase

The Cubs' pursuit of Jake Peavy is over.

Padres general manager Kevin Towers said he was told by Cubs general manager Jim Hendry on Thursday that the Cubs were ending their quest for a Peavy blockbuster.

The teams had spoken for weeks about a potential trade, expanding their discussions to three- and four-team deals in an attempt to satisfy the Padres.

But the Cubs ultimately determined that they did not want to pay the price for Peavy — five or six players, plus the remaining $63 million on the final four years of Peavy's contract."

[JackAstro]

Now all that's left to do is sit and wait for tomorrow's report out of Baltimore that the Peavy to Cubs deal is all but complete, with just a couple of small kinks to iron out.

[NeilT]

I thought Peavy was to be the new senator from Illinois.

[BUWebguy]

I thought Peavy was to be the new senator from Illinois.

Nominated.

[Crusher_Joe]

Angels target Peavy.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8926844/Thursday-MLB-winter-meetings-blog