Mechanics question.

[das]

So, after some of my church league softball games, a few of us hang around and try to strike each other out.  It's a lot of fun but we had better be wearing our helmets when we step in.  I get on the mound with my awesome 4 pitch repertoire:  4-seam FB, 2-seam FB, curve and changeup.  All got markedly better (well, 65mph FB became a 68mph FB) after reading JimR’s tutorial and I started each by reaching way back at the start of my delivery.  Except, something funny happens with the curve.  If I short-arm the curve, it maintains a decent downward bite.  If I “long-arm” the curve, it flattens out to a more sweeping break from like 2-to-7 and, more importantly, pops something in my upper back.  Three times in the last 3 months and it hurts to move my neck for a couple of days.  Right side (I’m right handed) between my spine and edge of the shoulder blade.  What am I doing wrong?

[JimR]

So, after some of my church league softball games, a few of us hang around and try to strike each other out.  It's a lot of fun but we had better be wearing our helmets when we step in.  I get on the mound with my awesome 4 pitch repertoire:  4-seam FB, 2-seam FB, curve and changeup.  All got markedly better (well, 65mph FB became a 68mph FB) after reading JimR’s tutorial and I started each by reaching way back at the start of my delivery.  Except, something funny happens with the curve.  If I short-arm the curve, it maintains a decent downward bite.  If I “long-arm” the curve, it flattens out to a more sweeping break from like 2-to-7 and, more importantly, pops something in my upper back.  Three times in the last 3 months and it hurts to move my neck for a couple of days.  Right side (I’m right handed) between my spine and edge of the shoulder blade.  What am I doing wrong?

i do not know, but if it hurts, stop.

the downward tilt comes from your arm angle, not long or short arm. make sure your elbow is at shoulder level. for the curve, your arm at the top of the delivery should look like a capital L. as a general rule, you should never short arm anything.

[Andyzipp]

i do not know, but if it hurts, stop.

the downward tilt comes from your arm angle, not long or short arm. make sure your elbow is at shoulder level. for the curve, your arm at the top of the delivery should look like a capital L. as a general rule, you should never short arm anything.

See Miller, Wade.

[Mr. Happy]

So, after some of my church league softball games, a few of us hang around and try to strike each other out.  It's a lot of fun but we had better be wearing our helmets when we step in.  I get on the mound with my awesome 4 pitch repertoire:  4-seam FB, 2-seam FB, curve and changeup.  All got markedly better (well, 65mph FB became a 68mph FB) after reading JimR’s tutorial and I started each by reaching way back at the start of my delivery.  Except, something funny happens with the curve.  If I short-arm the curve, it maintains a decent downward bite.  If I “long-arm” the curve, it flattens out to a more sweeping break from like 2-to-7 and, more importantly, pops something in my upper back.  Three times in the last 3 months and it hurts to move my neck for a couple of days.  Right side (I’m right handed) between my spine and edge of the shoulder blade.  What am I doing wrong?

Without a slow motion visual, it would be difficult if not impossible to say. However, it sounds like you've got a mechanics issue with your curveball. So-called "shortarming" should never be done--there are a bunch of injury-related reasons why. With respect to the curveball itself, Coach is right. The "L" is important. Avoid the "V" at all costs unless you just want to blow out an elbow. I have no idea of your age or physical condition, but those could be playing a part as well in this sort of denial league activity..

[Houston]

What am I doing wrong?

You're trying to pitch!

[das]

You're trying to pitch!

If you saw my hitting or baserunning, you'd agree that I made a good decision.  Despite Mr. Happy's inference that I am old, crusty and in denile, I am the epitome of health and vitality.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Until my arm falls off or I suffer a debilitating, protruding compound fracture of my scapula.  Or the wife says the sandwhiches are ready.

Nice choice of timing on your trip to Jacksonville, Rainman.  15"+ throughout the area.
http://water.weather.gov/save.php?layer%5B%5D=0&layer%5B%5D=1&layer%5B%5D=4&timetype=RECENT&loctype=STATE&units=engl&timeframe=last7days&timeYYYY=2008&timeMM=8&timeDD=25&product=observed&loc=stateFL

[Mr. Happy]

If you saw my hitting or baserunning, you'd agree that I made a good decision.  Despite Mr. Happy's inference that I am old, crusty and in denile, I am the epitome of health and vitality.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Until my arm falls off or I suffer a debilitating, protruding compound fracture of my scapula.  Or the wife says the sandwhiches are ready.

Nice choice of timing on your trip to Jacksonville, Rainman.  15"+ throughout the area.
http://water.weather.gov/save.php?layer%5B%5D=0&layer%5B%5D=1&layer%5B%5D=4&timetype=RECENT&loctype=STATE&units=engl&timeframe=last7days&timeYYYY=2008&timeMM=8&timeDD=25&product=observed&loc=stateFL

I made no such inference--I just don't know you. Hell, I played in denial hardball leagues until I was 37 (I'm 48 now). Today, my arm and shoulder both hurt just thinking about trying to strike someone out.

[das]

I made no such inference--I just don't know you. Hell, I played in denial hardball leagues until I was 37 (I'm 48 now). Today, my arm and shoulder both hurt just thinking about trying to strike someone out.

Yea, I know.  I was kidding around.  I'm 40 now and still playing these denial games.  I'll do so until the pain associated exceeds the fun asociated.   I will not go gently into the night, I will rage against the dying of the light...

[austro]

I had to stop playing basketball at about 45, when the mean time to heal started to exceed the mean time between injuries.

[Houston]

Nice choice of timing on your trip to Jacksonville, Rainman.  15"+ throughout the area.
http://water.weather.gov/save.php?layer%5B%5D=0&layer%5B%5D=1&layer%5B%5D=4&timetype=RECENT&loctype=STATE&units=engl&timeframe=last7days&timeYYYY=2008&timeMM=8&timeDD=25&product=observed&loc=stateFL

It's not like I went there to relax. I was taking my daughter to college, so I didn't have much say in the timing. But we survived and have made it back home.

Now the only thing I have to worry about is how many more 21-year olds will be hitting on my 17-year-old freshman daughter!

[Mr. Happy]

I had to stop playing basketball at about 45, when the mean time to heal started to exceed the mean time between injuries.

You made it two years longer than me. However, in my case, though I wasn't quite at the point of no return, I decided that, discretion being the better part of valor, it was time to quit when half of our team came down with injuries that ranged from plantar's fascitis to a torn labrum to a torn miniscus.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

One of the dangers of the Denial Leagues doesn't have to do with mechanics. 

Really well written piece, and scary as hell.

[HudsonHawk]

One of the dangers of the Denial Leagues doesn't have to do with mechanics. 

Really well written piece, and scary as hell.

Eh...more like an excuse for this guy to name drop.  He sure is proud of the fact that he's a jock sniffer.

[das]

Eh...more like an excuse for this guy to name drop.  He sure is proud of the fact that he's a jock sniffer.

While it's unfortunate that a bad hop beaned him in the eyeball, I can't fathom how he would come away thinking "was amateur baseball really worth it? The most obvious answer is no".  Talk about being a backpeddling ninny.  You either choose an active lifestyle, and the inherant benefits and risks associated, or you choose to shy away from it.  Your choice in that regard makes up a part of your character and suggesting it was a bad idea after years of playing ball after an unfortunate incident is chickenshit.  Pardon the french...

[Houston]

While it's unfortunate that a bad hop beaned him in the eyeball, I can't fathom how he would come away thinking "was amateur baseball really worth it? The most obvious answer is no".  Talk about being a backpeddling ninny.  You either choose an active lifestyle, and the inherant benefits and risks associated, or you choose to shy away from it.  Your choice in that regard makes up a part of your character and suggesting it was a bad idea after years of playing ball after an unfortunate incident is chickenshit.  Pardon the french...

I'm telling your wife on you!

[mihoba]

I thought this thread was going to be about replacing an alternator or changing a water pump.

"Honey, could you move the transmission, I need to take a bath!"

[das]

I'm telling your wife on you!

She got chickens a few months ago.  It's the one bad word I'm now allowed to say with no eternal or familial retribution.  As in, "Aw c'mon. I can't beleive I stepped in ________ again.  Would you please keep them in the pen?".

For anyone that may read this, if your wife says to you, "we should get some chickens, they would look cute running around the yard".  They're not.

[HudsonHawk]

She got chickens a few months ago.  It's the one bad word I'm now allowed to say with no eternal or familial retribution.  As in, "Aw c'mon. I can't beleive I stepped in ________ again.  Would you please keep them in the pen?".

For anyone that may read this, if your wife says to you, "we should get some chickens, they would look cute running around the yard".  They're not.

Your wife had obviously never been around chickens before.  Chickens are the filthiest, nastiest animals on the face of the eath.

[mihoba]

Your wife had obviously never been around chickens before.  Chickens are the filthiest, nastiest animals on the face of the eath.

Long ago, someone must have said: "I'm going to eat the first thing that comes out of that birds butt."

My neighbor has a couple of laying hens. Hard to beat fresh yard eggs. One hen lays green eggs with a thin shell, the other brown eggs with a thick shell.

[Jacksonian]

Your wife had obviously never been around chickens before.  Chickens are the filthiest, nastiest animals on the face of the eath.

No, their second.  Worst are chicago cubs.

[Ty in Tampa]

No, their second.  Worst are chicago cubs fans.

Fixed.

[Houston]

Your wife had obviously never been around chickens before.  Chickens are the filthiest, nastiest animals on the face of the eath.

Have you ever cleaned a pig's pen?

[BudGirl]

Long ago, someone must have said: "I'm going to eat the first thing that comes out of that birds butt."

My neighbor has a couple of laying hens. Hard to beat fresh yard eggs. One hen lays green eggs with a thin shell, the other brown eggs with a thick shell.

those eggs make great dumplings.

[Mr. Happy]

Have you ever cleaned a pig's pen?

Yes. I agree. F'ing liquid hogshit is about the worst.

[chuck]

Yes. I agree. F'ing liquid hogshit is about the worst.

I'll take your word for it.

[Mr. Happy]

I'll take your word for it.

When I was in high school, I was part of a Key Club "slave auction," where people bid on us to do jobs for them. A local auctioneer "bought" two of us for the highest bid in the auction, $500 (this was 1976, when that was real money), and had us cleaning out hog bins and horse stalls for a day. I still think that the guy just wanted us to smell what real shit smelled like. Sadistic.

[Houston]

When I was in high school, I was part of a Key Club "slave auction," where people bid on us to do jobs for them. A local auctioneer "bought" two of us for the highest bid in the auction, $500 (this was 1976, when that was real money), and had us cleaning out hog bins and horse stalls for a day. I still think that the guy just wanted us to smell what real shit smelled like. Sadistic.

My dad had a friend who had a pig farm in Pearland in the late 1970s. He made me get up at some hour that wasn't even exposed to sunshine to drive to Pearland (from Houston) with him to clean the pens. It was horrible. I think I was about 11 or so and remembered his lesson that manual labor was the punishment for not excelling in school. I think he overdid and oversimplied the lessons, but it worked. About the most strenuous work my hands have ever done is peck on a keyboard.

[JimR]

My dad had a friend who had a pig farm in Pearland in the late 1970s. He made me get up at some hour that wasn't even exposed to sunshine to drive to Pearland (from Houston) with him to clean the pens. It was horrible. I think I was about 11 or so and remembered his lesson that manual labor was the punishment for not excelling in school. I think he overdid and oversimplied the lessons, but it worked. About the most strenuous work my hands have ever done is peck on a keyboard.

this is about the strangest turn any TZ thread has ever taken: from poor pitching mechanics to hogshit. on the other hand, we did often post about Chris Holt.

[BudGirl]

this is about the strangest turn any TZ thread has ever taken: from poor pitching mechanics to hogshit. on the other hand, we did often post about Chris Holt.

Now, he was a winner.

[Houston]

this is about the strangest turn any TZ thread has ever taken: from poor pitching mechanics to hogshit. on the other hand, we did often post about Chris Holt.

And, ironically, the person who started the thread is also the one who forced the turn ("das" going from pitching to chickens).

[Waldo]

Have you ever cleaned a pig's pen?

C'mon, Biggio's uni wasn't that bad...

[VirtualBob]

C'mon, Biggio's uni wasn't that bad...

You imply that your opinion on this subject is an informed one.  I'm worried about that.

[HudsonHawk]

Have you ever cleaned a pig's pen?

Yes.  And I'd take a pig everyday and twice on Sundays over a chicken.

[Taras Bulba]

Owl shit is really bad.  Both slick and stringy with a hint of musk and rodent.  They probably sell it at Central Market.

[Andyzipp]

Owl shit is really bad.  Both slick and stringy with a hint of musk and rodent.  They probably sell it at Central Market.

Neither is as bad as Bat Shit.  Speaking of which A&M Football starts up Saturday.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I've traveled under the Congress Avenue bridge countless times, where one of the largest urban bat colonies in the world lives.

One day, before quitting at the end of the shift, I worked at an egg farm that was home to several thousand hens.

I say, a large concentration of chicken shit smells a lot worse than large concentration of bat guano.

Parts of Lubbock smell pretty bad if you get downwind from one of those nearby feedlots.

But that egg farm smell got up in my nose and lived there for a few days and etched itself in my memory.

"When nothing else subsists from the past, after the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered--the smell and taste of things remain poised a long time, like souls--bearing resiliently, on tiny and almost impalpable drops of their essence, the immense edifice of memory" -Marcel Proust

[kevwun]

Owl shit is really bad.  Both slick and stringy with a hint of musk and rodent.  They probably sell it at Central Market.

with a dash of skeletal remains and the slightest hint of fur

[Jacksonian]

Neither is as bad as Bat Shit.  Speaking of which A&M Football starts up Saturday.

You forgot the quotation marks.

[austro]

with a dash of skeletal remains and the slightest hint of fur

There's nothing like Texas wine.

[chuck]

Speaking of which A&M Football starts up Saturday.

Women's or men's?

[geezerdonk]

"When nothing else subsists from the past, after the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered--the smell and taste of things remain poised a long time, like souls--bearing resiliently, on tiny and almost impalpable drops of their essence, the immense edifice of memory" -Marcel Proust

Well tried Harry.

[Andyzipp]

I've traveled under the Congress Avenue bridge countless times, where one of the largest urban bat colonies in the world lives.

One day, before quitting at the end of the shift, I worked at an egg farm that was home to several thousand hens.

I say, a large concentration of chicken shit smells a lot worse than large concentration of bat guano.

Parts of Lubbock smell pretty bad if you get downwind from one of those nearby feedlots.

But that egg farm smell got up in my nose and lived there for a few days and etched itself in my memory.

"When nothing else subsists from the past, after the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered--the smell and taste of things remain poised a long time, like souls--bearing resiliently, on tiny and almost impalpable drops of their essence, the immense edifice of memory" -Marcel Proust

The Congress Street Bridge has a lot of ventilation. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Well tried Harry.

All-England Summarize Proust Competition