Pence moved to leadoff spot

[Clark in Denver]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5786233.html

I like having Pence in that 6 spot, but what do I know?

[Matt]

Why not Matsui to leadoff?

[pravata]

Why not Matsui to leadoff?

Cooper thinks he's not comfortable.  - Berkman, Lee, Wigginton, Towles, Bourn. 

[Noe]

Cooper thinks he's not comfortable.  - Berkman, Lee, Wigginton, Towles, Bourn. 

With the DH, you can do this.  Not in the NL though.  Cooper will have the luxury of doing what they do in the AL and bat someone in the nine hole who can hit and allow Bourn to get on and run.  I doubt this is a move that will be implemented for the long term, but rather for this series only.

[JaneDoe]

Pence, batting .286 with a .335 on-base percentage this season, will take the top spot in the order from centerfielder Michael Bourn, who will be moved to the No. 8 hole.

So, Pence is gonna steal it from him?  Or maybe arm-wrestle him for it? 

[JaneDoe]

Cooper thinks he's not comfortable.  - Berkman, Lee, Wigginton, Towles, Bourn. 

Ok, I'm sure to get flamed for this, but if I were gonna move him it wouldn't be between Towles and the pitcher.

[Noe]

Ok, I'm sure to get flamed for this, but if I were gonna move him it wouldn't be between Towles and the pitcher.

What pitcher?  They're playing DH rules this series... Darrin Erstad will be in the lineup as a first baseman and Berkman is going to DH.  So assuming that Matsui stays #2, Tejada #3, Berkman #4, Lee #5, then you can insert Erstad into the #6 spot and forgetaboutit.  That means that either Blum/Loretta/Wiggington bat #7, Bourn #8 and Towles or Ausmus #9.

[JaneDoe]

What pitcher?  They're playing DH rules this series... Darrin Erstad will be in the lineup as a first baseman and Berkman is going to DH.  So assuming that Matsui stays #2, Tejada #3, Berkman #4, Lee #5, then you can insert Erstad into the #6 spot and forgetaboutit.  That means that either Blum/Loretta/Wiggington bat #7, Bourn #8 and Towles or Ausmus #9.

I know for this series but Prav wrote Berkman, Lee, Wigginton, Towles, Bourn. Assuming Pence 1 and Matsui 2, that leaves only the 9 spot open. 

[JimR]

Fuck.

Cooper, dammit, quit thinking so much.

[mihoba]

What pitcher?  They're playing DH rules this series... Darrin Erstad will be in the lineup as a first baseman and Berkman is going to DH.  So assuming that Matsui stays #2, Tejada #3, Berkman #4, Lee #5, then you can insert Erstad into the #6 spot and forgetaboutit.  That means that either Blum/Loretta/Wiggington bat #7, Bourn #8 and Towles or Ausmus #9.

I look for Lee to DH at least one game this weekend.

[Noe]

I know for this series but Prav wrote Berkman, Lee, Wigginton, Towles, Bourn. Assuming Pence 1 and Matsui 2, that leaves only the 9 spot open. 

*sigh*

Bourn isn't being moved for the long term.  Pravata was making an assumption and forgot about Erstad and the DH role this series.  If, however, Cooper is making a move for the long term, he just went against everything he's been saying and someone got to him.

Damn you Pam Gardner!

[Noe]

I look for Lee to DH at least one game this weekend.

Saturday.  Erstad will still get the start.  He's going to play first base tonight and Sunday and left field on Saturday.  This is an American League special lineup.

[JaneDoe]

*sigh*

Bourn isn't being moved for the long term. 

The article doesn't say that it is not for the long term.  I was going with that assumption.

[Noe]

The article doesn't say that it is not for the long term.  I was going with that assumption.

Assuming you're right, then something happened between yesterday and today based on what Cooper has been saying (Bourn threw a hissy fit, Cooper listened to fans, McLane called Cooper and got after him for the Biggio remarks and also told him to move Bourn down... what?).  Then Coach is right... Coop is over-thinking this and he's just lost a valuable RBI man in Pence in the six hole.

This series will not tell him anything in that regard because it's American League rules and that means nothing long term.

[JimR]

Assuming you're right, then something happened between yesterday and today based on what Cooper has been saying (Bourn threw a hissy fit, Cooper listened to fans, McLane called Cooper and got after him for the Biggio remarks and also told him to move Bourn down... what?).  Then Coach is right... Coop is over-thinking this and he's just lost a valuable RBI man in Pence in the six hole.

This series will not tell him anything in that regard because it's American League rules and that means nothing long term.

Pence in the 6 hole is a helluva lot more valuable than Bourn's BA at leadoff. dammit, this is not difficult. do NOT move a run producer to leadoff.

[JaneDoe]

Pence in the 6 hole is a helluva lot more valuable than Bourn's BA at leadoff. dammit, this is not difficult. do NOT move a run producer to leadoff.

I totally agree.

[Noe]

What is stranger to me is this part:

Nieve, who was 3-3 with a 4.20 ERA for the Astros in 2006, was moved to the minor-league bullpen for the remainder of the 2008 season Tuesday because of breathing problems. He will replace injured reliever Geoff Geary, who left Thursday's game with a strained right groin, on the 40-man roster.

They're removing Geary from the 40 man roster just because he has a strained groin?  Huh?  No mention of the DL?  Do they mean 25 man roster?  Whaaa?  Does anyone think that perhaps this hastily written article is leaving out some key information on both Geary and Bourn?  I do.  Like are these moves permanent for both players?

[JaneDoe]

What is stranger to me is this part:

They're removing Geary from the 40 man roster just because he has a strained groin?  Huh?  No mention of the DL?  Do they mean 25 man roster?  Whaaa?

It's the Comical.  Breathe.

[JimR]

What is stranger to me is this part:

They're removing Geary from the 40 man roster just because he has a strained groin?  Huh?  No mention of the DL?  Do they mean 25 man roster?  Whaaa?

i like the move, though. instant setup man?

[Matt]

Pence is a lot like Soriano in the leadoff spot.  Why not bat Matsui and Erstad at the top for this series with Pence staying in the 6 Hole? Matsui's approach is much better then Pence's.

[JimR]

Pence is a lot like Soriano in the leadoff spot.  Why not bat Matsui and Erstad at the top for this series with Pence staying in the 6 Hole? Matsui's approach is much better then Pence's.

i like Erstad there. i like Erstad everywhere he plays. what a professional.

[OregonStrosFan]

What is stranger to me is this part:

They're removing Geary from the 40 man roster just because he has a strained groin?  Huh?  No mention of the DL?  Do they mean 25 man roster?  Whaaa?  Does anyone think that perhaps this hastily written article is leaving out some key information on both Geary and Bourn?  I do.  Like are these moves permanent for both players?

From Zach Levine at Chron.com [ LINK ]: "Geary was put on the DL, there's a full version of that story going up momentarily. We got word from Brian McTaggart in Arlington that the change was likely for this series, as they can use the DH. -Z"

[mihoba]

i like Erstad there. i like Erstad everywhere he plays. what a professional.

Hell yeah, let Erstad leadoff and leave Pence in the 6 hole.

[JaneDoe]

i like Erstad there. i like Erstad everywhere he plays. what a professional.

Yes he is.  Is his only a one year deal?

[SaltyParker]

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Probably Coop's logic, not that I agree with it.

[pravata]

From Zach Levine at Chron.com [ LINK ]: "Geary was put on the DL, there's a full version of that story going up momentarily. We got word from Brian McTaggart in Arlington that the change was likely for this series, as they can use the DH. -Z"

I just heard that from Cooper, as expected.  He's got Erstad for the second half the order.  Berkman is leading the league in runs scored and one off in RBI.  Pence has been instrumental in that, and Berkman obviously has had plenty of runners to move around.  The first squib Ortiz threw up just said that Pence had been moved to leadoff.  There's always more to his stories than he types.

[pravata]

i like the move, though. instant setup man?

(Geary is going on the DL, as everyone has gathered in spite of Ortiz's premature scribble) Nieve is interesting, if they can keep him awake.

[Noe]

I just heard that from Cooper, as expected.  He's got Erstad for the second half the order.  Berkman is leading the league in runs scored and one off in RBI.  Pence has been instrumental in that, and Berkman obviously has had plenty of runners to move around.  The first squib Ortiz threw up just said that Pence had been moved to leadoff.  There's always more to his stories than he types.

That didn't stop the wolves though.  Pallilo said "Bourn should be sent to AAA or benched".  This morning, Davies said "It's time they got rid of him.  Get Kenny Lofton or move Pence to center field".  See, they went from "move him down in the lineup" to "bench him" "demote him to AAA" to outright "release him".  After 144 ABs.  Now Cooper does this for a series to get Bourn a few days away from the pressure of leading off and they're not satisfied.

You'd think that people who work in sports media would be more in the know.  From someone who is in the know about this (not me), the sports media folks who get to air this crap "don't know shit about baseball".

[Noe]

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Probably Coop's logic, not that I agree with it.

Very logical.

[pravata]

...  From someone who is in the know about this (not me), the sports media folks who get to air this crap "don't know shit about baseball".

I've heard that somewhere myself.

[MikeyBoy]

With the DH, you can do this. 

Exactly, Noe. I was yelling this at Palillo as I was driving home. I pictured him announcing the lineup as he grinned from ear to ear like he won the lottery. Bourn will be back in the lead off spot on Monday.

[jonbloozy]

Nieve is interesting, if they can keep him awake.

I thought that was why he can't go more than four innings . . .

[rambo2]

That didn't stop the wolves though.  Pallilo said "Bourn should be sent to AAA or benched".  This morning, Davies said "It's time they got rid of him.  Get Kenny Lofton or move Pence to center field".  See, they went from "move him down in the lineup" to "bench him" "demote him to AAA" to outright "release him".  After 144 ABs.  Now Cooper does this for a series to get Bourn a few days away from the pressure of leading off and they're not satisfied.

You'd think that people who work in sports media would be more in the know.  From someone who is in the know about this (not me), the sports media folks who get to air this crap "don't know shit about baseball".

Those guys are idiots.  Bourn plays a great center field and he leads mlb in steals.  The team is winning.  If it aint broke don't fix it.  Bourn will be fine.  He will be back in the leadoff spot when they go back home. This AL series gave Cooper an opportunity to make this move. 



 

[DVauthrin]

That didn't stop the wolves though.  Pallilo said "Bourn should be sent to AAA or benched".  This morning, Davies said "It's time they got rid of him.  Get Kenny Lofton or move Pence to center field".  See, they went from "move him down in the lineup" to "bench him" "demote him to AAA" to outright "release him".  After 144 ABs.  Now Cooper does this for a series to get Bourn a few days away from the pressure of leading off and they're not satisfied.

You'd think that people who work in sports media would be more in the know.  From someone who is in the know about this (not me), the sports media folks who get to air this crap "don't know shit about baseball".

so sad, but yet so true.   Why is it so hard for them to understand how much he means to the pitching staff defensively and to be able to realize when he steals a hit that would have led to runs scoring from the opposition it has the same effect as if he got a hit and scored himself?

[rifraft]

so sad, but yet so true.   Why is it so hard for them to understand how much he means to the pitching staff defensively and to be able to realize when he steals a hit that would have led to runs scoring from the opposition it has the same effect as if he got a hit and scored himself?

b/c they don't know baseball, they know pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[rambo2]

They have Bourn back in the leadoff spot today.

[Limey]

So, Pence is gonna steal it from him?  Or maybe arm-wrestle him for it? 

First one from the hot tub to the bathroom gets to lead off!

[Limey]

i like Erstad there. i like Erstad everywhere he plays. what a professional.

I am hugely impressed by Erstad.  And I'm not easily impressed by anybody unless they have big tits.

[Astroholic]

I am hugely impressed by Erstad.  And I'm not easily impressed by anybody unless they have big tits.

So you like his tits?

[AtascAstro]

Caught about 20 minutes of 1560 this morning (~9:15) - John & Lance had Justice on

Berkman apparently said he had to tip his hat to Wade because this team fits together great, very impressed by Erstad and Tejada.  Justice apparently asked him what it was about Tejada (on the field or off) and Berkman replied - "You got an hour?".  Apparently Miguel makes it a point to touch each player before each game (NTTIAWWT).  Said that they had to wait for Tejada & Kaz to finish laughing w/ the pitcher before they could start a game in San Fran (Tejada told a yoke).

Pence still follows Erstad like a puppy - wants to know when he's eating always with him.

Valverde is a legitimate whack job - but they all "get" him and like him

Mentioned that Puma may be blossoming with a lighter tone in the clubhouse (not the stoic locker room of Biggio & Bagwell).  This group just clicks..

Found it interesting.

[Gizzmonic]

so sad, but yet so true.   Why is it so hard for them to understand how much he means to the pitching staff defensively and to be able to realize when he steals a hit that would have led to runs scoring from the opposition it has the same effect as if he got a hit and scored himself?

Arguably, it's better when he steals a run as it saves wear and tear on the pitching staff.  The Astros need all the help they can get on defense, and Bourn and Pence have been stealing extra base hits all season.

Despite the results in Arlington, I do think the Astros look pretty good as an AL club.  Erstad makes all the difference.