Author Topic: On a positive note out of today's asskicking  (Read 9258 times)

Mr. Happy

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On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« on: April 17, 2008, 04:33:53 pm »
Q gets a start and goes 2-4, with a double and an RBI.
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SaltyParker

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 05:10:00 pm »
Many negatives today:

> Backe has been pitching over his head, reality bites
> Loretta is in a funk, abnormal # of Ks recently
> Blum had a terrible game at the plate and in the field
> Villarreal just plain sucks, 6HRA in 11 innings
> Valverde yet again, cannot put together a clean inning


add to that the fact that our bench sure looks weak. I don't see any positives from Q's 2-4 as the team doesn't have a place for him on the active roster. Coach is right that he needs to stay up, but it's doubtful that will be the case.

JimR

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 05:55:55 pm »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.
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Fredia

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 06:11:13 pm »
today was a blowout yes, but there have been so many close gamess o no i can see this clicking down the road
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SaltyParker

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 06:19:48 pm »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.
This is really the only blowout we have had all year. The team has been in every game so far, and hasn't lost any single game by more then 2 runs excepting the Oswalt game against Florida and we were in that one until Villarreal gave up 2 in the ninth and we lost 10-6. So our record could easily be much better. There are many positives on this team, I didn't notice too many today however. Hopefully Matsui will provide some spark.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 06:21:45 pm by SaltyParker »

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 06:22:27 pm »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.

I think the team is starting to come together. I guess we're all nuts.
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Ankh

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 06:52:25 pm »
I guess we're all nuts.

Y'all are nuts. In the same way that someone says the Rockets are better without Yao - that kind of nuts.

This team can turn it around, sure, but the positive signs have yet to outweigh the negative signs. The starting pitching has been better than expected, but the relievers haven't been. V & V in particular are supposed to be workhorses and are getting lit up.

I can see the offense and defense getting better with the return of Wigginton and Matsui, but until then, it is gloom and doom.

JimR

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 07:48:38 pm »
I disagree. I just need to watch the games and talk to myself.
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Andyzipp

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2008, 07:56:32 pm »
Oh Jim, you know progress is only measured in wins of a large margin.  Any thing else is a sign the team either sucks or is going to suck...

DVauthrin

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 08:22:40 pm »
This doom and gloom crap is hilarious.   Would you have said that if the Astros won on tuesday and were 7-9 right now?   With no matsui, no wigginton, and hunter pence's bat gone awol?  Plus a tough early schedule.     I think not.

For all of valverde's problems, he's cost them 1 game only in the standings, and he should figure it out sooner rather than later.   Villarreal can be replaced in his 7th inning role until he gets things figured out.

Myself i'm encouraged by the fact you know you have a strong offensive and defensive club, and your rotation ace finally got on track vs a strong lineup last night.



« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 08:28:36 pm by DVauthrin »
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matadorph

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2008, 08:30:38 pm »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.

Take a bite out of this reality pickle: the Houston Astros are one of the worst teams in baseball. I know this not from watching the games but from watching Cold Take this morning on ESPN. Today I learned from NY Post writer Kevin Kernan that the Houston Astros franchise is in trouble because Baseball America says their minor league system is the worst in all of MLB.

You're nuts if you disagree with BA.
 

drew corleone

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 08:34:34 pm »
There's a lot of positive signs, and I agree with Salty -- it's not like this team is getting their ass kicked every night. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this team, and even if there weren't... it's f'ing April. What kind of self-respecting baseball fan bails on their team this early?

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 09:07:32 pm »
Y'all are nuts. In the same way that someone says the Rockets are better without Yao - that kind of nuts.


Actually, that's a very good point. The Rockets aren't better without Yao, but the reason they played at such a high level the month before Yao went out, and then managed to sustain that high level even after he got hurt, is because the team clicked. A very different system under Adelman was created for the team and it took a while over the course of the season for the team to gel around the change and excel. The elements were there for the Rockets during the first half, but it took time for them all to connect under the change.

This Astros team is a very different team from seasons past under a different direction from the head office. The elements are there for this team to succeed. Backe, Wandy, Sampson, Chacon and when needed Cassell have the talent to get the team more wins than losses. The offense has had trouble stringing hits together, but you can see how this could be a terrific lineup. The 'pen needs to work itself out, but the talent is there. The defense has been better than expected, which was in most of our minds to be an improvement over last year anway. You just have to let them play the games and find their identity as a team. The elements are there to succeed, and it is not difficult to see where they are. Other than today, the team has been competitive even in their losses. Just give it time and let them come together and find out what works.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 09:08:57 pm »
There's a lot of positive signs, and I agree with Salty -- it's not like this team is getting their ass kicked every night. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this team, and even if there weren't... it's f'ing April. What kind of self-respecting baseball fan bails on their team this early?


People were bailing on this team in March.
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pravata

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 09:24:38 pm »

People were bailing on this team in March.

They need to do it quietly.

TheWizard

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 09:43:14 pm »
I'm plenty optimistic about this team.  I think our rotation can get it done in our division and our lineup has the potential to be very explosive.  I think we can easily be a contender.

The only doom and gloom that I gotta agree with is that Villareal and Valverde aren't impressing me too much, and I'm not sure I see the light with those two.  We'll find out though, lots of season left to go.
Today seems like a good day to burn a bridge or two

Mr. Happy

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 09:51:07 pm »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.

Call me nuts too then.
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rambo2

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2008, 09:55:17 pm »
The bench isn't weak.  They are playing with 3 bench players starting right now.  Hopefully they will get all of the starters healthy soon.  They will have a good lineup when they get healthy.  They have a chance to have a pretty good team.

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2008, 10:03:01 pm »
I'm plenty optimistic about this team.  I think our rotation can get it done in our division and our lineup has the potential to be very explosive.  I think we can easily be a contender.

The only doom and gloom that I gotta agree with is that Villareal and Valverde aren't impressing me too much, and I'm not sure I see the light with those two.  We'll find out though, lots of season left to go.

I don't know why you wouldn't see the light with V&V if you could see it with O.  Do you see the light with Pence? 

I'm not ready to give up on any of the pitching yet.

Pence I think needs to be sent down.
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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2008, 10:03:30 pm »
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

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Desperado

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2008, 11:28:12 pm »
It's April 17th. I'm still glad the void is over.

mihoba

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2008, 11:53:11 pm »
I'm waiting to see the starting eight Wade envisioned. Loretta will be better off the bench, and even if Pence gets a ticket to RR, Erstad and Chieto can share time in RF. If this team can get healthy and stay that way, they'll make some noise.

I'm onboard.
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legs_of_eggs

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2008, 01:50:41 am »
Remember a few months back there was a thread on here calling this years Rockets one of the biggest Houston sports disappointment? That worked out pretty well.

JimR

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2008, 07:31:41 am »
Gesundheit, BG
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drew corleone

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2008, 08:32:33 am »

People were bailing on this team in March.
There are two kinds of baseball fans in Texas, it seems... (a) those that love the game and support their team (b) those that pass the time until football season. If the boys in Bristol haven't projected a pennant from the Good Guys, then the latter category bails and spends the entire season nitpicking every flaw... until August when they stop paying attention altogether.

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2008, 09:11:32 am »
We can call you John Wayne Bobbit.

He's just nuts too.

pravata

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2008, 09:36:37 am »
I don't know why you wouldn't see the light with V&V if you could see it with O.  Do you see the light with Pence? 

I'm not ready to give up on any of the pitching yet.

Pence I think needs to be sent down.

One of the things you're supposed to learn in the minor leagues is how to make adjustments, that and how to slide, if you didnt learn that in little league and not look like a friggin pontoon plane making an emergency landing, or a goose trying to land in a pond, on a simple slide... Pence, because of marketing pressures didn't have the time to learn these things.  Now he's headed to a buck nothin and the Astros can either sit him on the bench or discreetly put him on a midnight bus to Round Rock.   If he was Jason Lane the fans would have buried him by now.

pots

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2008, 09:42:35 am »
Damn. All I read is gloom and doom. What I see is a team close to being good. Y'all must think I am nuts.

The Looney Bin.  I'm still sticking with my prediction of 500 by the end of April and winning ball the rest of the way.


Arky Vaughan

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2008, 09:48:04 am »
Oh Jim, you know progress is only measured in wins of a large margin.  Any thing else is a sign the team either sucks or is going to suck...

I wouldn't go that far (sarcasm meter tingling). There have been a lot of positive signs. The thing to look out for is that if and when certain things correct themselves (Oswalt, Valverde, Pence), that other things don't turn sour (the rest of the rotation). If everybody returns to form, you'll see some improvements in some places but some deterioration in others. The key is for the top guys to play to form and a few others to play better than expected.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 09:50:16 am by Arky Vaughan »

austro

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2008, 10:04:08 am »
The Looney Bin.  I'm still sticking with my prediction of 500 by the end of April and winning ball the rest of the way.

They're 4 games under .500 right now, with 13 games left in April: Colorado (3 at home), San Diego (2 at home), Cincinnati (2 away), St. Louis (3 away), and Arizona (3 away). I'll be happy if they go .500 against that schedule (which they can't, since it's an odd number of games), much less 4 games over .500. If they're 5 games or less under .500 at the end of the month, they'll have done well.
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JimR

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2008, 10:11:10 am »
You simply cannot obsess over each indidual game or draw conclusions from it. You must learn from it, try to correct obvious flaws, fix bad trends that may be apparent from a number of games and make the team btter in everything you do. Above all, you forget yesterday and play better todayu.

I have never understood why the "they suck" people watch the games at all.
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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2008, 10:13:06 am »

I have never understood why the "they suck" people watch the games at all.

I think many of them do not.
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pravata

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2008, 10:20:40 am »
I think many of them do not.

Judging from the general  commentary, you have to hope they don't. 

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On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2008, 10:22:18 am »
Three starters out and except for the Valverde meltdown, the Astros would have won two out of three in Philadelphia. All things considered, the team is winning about as much as can be reasonably expected. They need the starters back pronto. The bench is beginning to be overexposed. That is why they are bench players - for whatever reason, they can't play effectively on an everyday basis. Erstad's swings look as bad as Pence's.
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TheWizard

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2008, 10:30:25 am »
I don't know why you wouldn't see the light with V&V if you could see it with O.  Do you see the light with Pence? 

I'm not ready to give up on any of the pitching yet.

Pence I think needs to be sent down.
I see it with Pence because he is a 2nd year player who probably was brought up before he was ready and probably still be at RR taking cuts.  Other people know more about these sorts of things, but that's just my opinion.  He has plenty of room to grow and learn.  His skill set is certainly there.

Valverde on the other hand has been in the league for a relatively long time.  We know what we are going to get with him.  His history for the past few seasons indicates he is going to let batters get on base, strike out a lot of folks, and have some great nights, some poor nights.  He is what he is, he's at that point of his career where not much is going to change, IMO of course.

With the other V, I'm just subjectively not too impressed by what I see.  Admittingly, I haven't seen him play other than this season, so it will group me into the "he sucks" category of watchers, which I'd rather not be in.  But its a long season, we'll see what he can do.

And I think Oswalt deserves a bit more leeway than Valverde and Villarreal, at least from my perspective.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 10:32:53 am by TheWizard »
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Zac D

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2008, 10:36:10 am »
Erstad's swings look as bad as Pence's.

That's hard to believe. My swings don't look as bad as Pence's.

otterjb

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2008, 10:40:11 am »
You simply cannot obsess over each indidual game or draw conclusions from it. You must learn from it, try to correct obvious flaws, fix bad trends that may be apparent from a number of games and make the team btter in everything you do. Above all, you forget yesterday and play better todayu.

In a 162 game season, I think that that's an excellent point. It's not football, even though the media might treat each game with the same judgment.


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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2008, 11:17:38 am »
I have never understood why the "they suck" people watch the games at all.

You can't understand it, until you live in Boston or New York.  When I lived in Boston in 2001, and they were 5 games ahead of New York mid-summer, callers still call in to the radio shows and blow out gloom and doom because they saw (in their opinion), the Red Sox were losing more games than the should have been losing, and were trending downward.

Unfortunately, they were right - the Yankees passed them.

You can look at rose-colored glasses and think - hey, if the stars perform properly *and* everyone plays over their head, this team can be good.  Dare to hope, but trending downwards is easier to see than trending upwards. 

I fail to see how someone can say with a straight face: "The Astros are playing a whole bunch of teams that are better than them for a month, and my hope is that they play them at a .500 clip, and therefore, they belong in that same group of teams considered good"

pravata

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2008, 11:19:33 am »
You can't understand it, until you live in Boston or New York.  When I lived in Boston in 2001, and they were 5 games ahead of New York mid-summer, callers still call in to the radio shows and blow out gloom and doom because they saw (in their opinion), the Red Sox were losing more games than the should have been losing, and were trending downward.

Unfortunately, they were right - the Yankees passed them.

You can look at rose-colored glasses and think - hey, if the stars perform properly *and* everyone plays over their head, this team can be good.  Dare to hope, but trending downwards is easier to see than trending upwards. 

I fail to see how someone can say with a straight face: "The Astros are playing a whole bunch of teams that are better than them for a month, and my hope is that they play them at a .500 clip, and therefore, they belong in that same group of teams considered good"

Or you could simply observe the games and dare not to make any predictions.

JimR

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2008, 11:26:12 am »
And you became exactly like those fans you belittle.
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Ankh

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2008, 11:26:58 am »
Or you could simply observe the games and dare not to make any predictions.

If only I were a fat, drunk Cubbie fan. If only...

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2008, 11:33:34 am »
Three starters out and except for the Valverde meltdown, the Astros would have won two out of three in Philadelphia. All things considered, the team is winning about as much as can be reasonably expected. They need the starters back pronto. The bench is beginning to be overexposed. That is why they are bench players - for whatever reason, they can't play effectively on an everyday basis. Erstad's swings look as bad as Pence's.
I came down from NY and went to all three games in Philadelphia (God help me). Bruntlett was booed loudly (by the more vocal "fans") the whole series, followed by shrieks of "you're terrible" after a ground-out or whatever, as well as un-sarcastic declarations of "Rollins woulda had it" on every grounder through the left side. I cannot understand the mindset where someone has the gall to harrass and judge their own team's bench player. What do you expect, that he should jump in for an injured starter and slug .600?

Other observations:
-it really sucks riding the subway back into town with these idiots after an ending like Tuesday night's.
-whatever the Phillie Phanatic is doing is generally more of an attraction to most fans than what's happening in the game.
-Pence looked as bad in person as he has on TV. Harder to tell location from where I was sitting, but the AB where he took three straight fastballs to strike out looking was particularly strange.
-yesterday the fans in the LF bleachers were giving Carlos a lot of shit, especially towards the end. He mostly just grinned, but after he caught the last out of the 8th (I think), he faked a toss into the stands before twirling around and running back to the dugout. His subsequent HR was a nice retort too, I thought.
-there were a ton of people wearing Phillies jerseys. Among those, it seemed the white guys overwhelmingly preferred Utley. I also saw a lot of Kruk's, Hamels, Thome's, Daulton's, even Morandini. The white girls mostly had Rollins or Howard shirts.
-I only saw maybe ten or twelve other people with Astros gear on.
-all in all, not bad to see two excellent games out of three. I won't miss the fans nor the stale "sports-mall" non-neighborhood atmosphere of the ball park, however.
"Come check us out in the Game Zone. We don’t bite. Unless you say something idiotic." -Mr. Happy

pravata

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2008, 11:36:06 am »
If only I were a fat, drunk Cubbie fan. If only...

A drunk cubbie fan has only an on/off switch.  Like the typical casual baseball attendee, players are either "Hall of Fame" or they "suck".  And, as Larry Dierker once put it, they aren't fans of baseball, they're fans of winning.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 11:56:37 am by pravata »

JackAstro

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2008, 11:37:36 am »
I fail to see how someone can say with a straight face: "The Astros are playing a whole bunch of teams that are better than them for a month, and my hope is that they play them at a .500 clip, and therefore, they belong in that same group of teams considered good"

First, that may or may not be reasonable, but I think the reaction here is to a list of negative points about the team, not to a statement remotely resembling that.

But, since you bring it up, how about "The Astros are playing a whole bunch of teams with better records than them for a month, and my hope is that they gel as I believe they are capable, and play them at a better than .500 clip, therefore indicating that they are good." Does that work?

Count me in the optimists camp, because I see a team that's currently only 4 elements removed from being very good:

1. Matsui. We need to see the up the middle defense and top of the order that was intended this offseason, and the bench is currently strained.
2. Valverde. This is obvious, and it's extraordinarily improbable that he's going to be this ineffective moving forward.
3. A 7th inning guy. I don't know if Villereal can live up to what he was brought in for or not, but I believe that Wright or Geary can.
4. RF. I don't care who it is, but someone needs to hit better than the pitching staff here. They can go in the 7th spot if needed, and there are 3 options, so it seems pretty likely this shit will get sorted out.

When 3 of those 4 are resolved, this team will win more than it loses. FACT.
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Rebel Jew

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2008, 11:42:33 am »

-yesterday the fans in the LF bleachers were giving Carlos a lot of shit, especially towards the end. He mostly just grinned, but after he caught the last out of the 8th (I think), he faked a toss into the stands before twirling around and running back to the dugout. His subsequent HR was a nice retort too, I thought.

i was at a giants-astros game last year where the bleacher fans were heckling him about being fat.  he grinned and pantomimed that he eats too much.  some guy offered him his hot dog, and carlos mouthed that he'd pick it up after the game.

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2008, 11:46:54 am »
If this franchise has demonstrated anything over the last few years, it's that you can't count them out until they're mathematically eliminated. Drawing any conclusions in April, or even May, June or July, is way premature. In 2003 and 2006, the Astros weren't finished off until the final weekend of the season. In 2004 and 2005, they made among the greatest comebacks of all-time. As long as they're still alive, they're still viable.

MRaup

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2008, 11:48:29 am »


When 3 of those 4 are resolved, this team will win more than it loses. FACT.

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JackAstro

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2008, 11:57:38 am »
JackAlkie?

No, my vision's terrific.
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geezerdonk

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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2008, 12:02:00 pm »
Bruntlett was booed loudly

Bruntlett has had a rough go all year. Sorry to see it. He seems to be a good guy and was one of my favorites. I wonder if the pressure of filling in for Rollins in front of hostile and unforgiving fans is getting to him. He never had to deal with negative fan reaction in Houston even the few times he didn't play well.
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Re: On a positive note out of today's asskicking
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2008, 12:12:39 pm »
(which they can't, since it's an odd number of games), much less 4 games over .500. If they're 5 games or less under .500 at the end of the month, they'll have done well.

Never say can't, especially given it's April and it tends to rain this month.