What's this I hear about Shawn Chacon?

[offthelidge]

I hear the Astros are close to signing Shawn Chacon.  Naturally, the first place I looked was the TZ.  Since there is no mention of it here, I was wondering if anyone has heard any rumblings? 

Not sure what to expect of him, he was great with the Yanks a couple of years ago...

[pravata]

I hear the Astros are close to signing Shawn Chacon.  Naturally, the first place I looked was the TZ.  Since there is no mention of it here, I was wondering if anyone has heard any rumblings? 

Not sure what to expect of him, he was great with the Yanks a couple of years ago...

Where'd you hear/see this?

[Noe]

I hear the Astros are close to signing Shawn Chacon.  Naturally, the first place I looked was the TZ.  Since there is no mention of it here, I was wondering if anyone has heard any rumblings? 

Not sure what to expect of him, he was great with the Yanks a couple of years ago...

I thought he had already signed with the Pirates.  Whaaaa?

[Andyzipp]

January 19, 2007
Pirates, Chacon avoid arbitration, agree to $3.8M deal

[pravata]

January 19, 2007
Pirates, Chacon avoid arbitration, agree to $3.8M deal

Last I read, 2 weeks ago the Pirates were talking to him.  The Rockies talked about him and passed.

[JackAstro]

January 19, 2007
Pirates, Chacon avoid arbitration, agree to $3.8M deal

Breaking news: it's currently 2008.

[Andyzipp]

Last I read, 2 weeks ago the Pirates were talking to him.  The Rockies talked about him and passed.

See, I have to calibrate my google.  This is what happens when I only use yours.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08024/851722-63.stm

1/24/2008
Pirates, Chacon still discussing his return

[Andyzipp]

Breaking news: it's currently 2008.

See above.  I was busy hugging Drayton McLane in 2007.  Missed a lot.

[offthelidge]

Where'd you hear/see this?

A poster on clutchfans posted this.  He has posted inside information that has come to fruition before, so I was just seeing if anyone here had heard anything.  

[Noe]

Last I read, 2 weeks ago the Pirates were talking to him.  The Rockies talked about him and passed.

What I heard was that is was all a formality and he was all but locked up for 2008.  Guess that was wrong if the Astros are talking to him.

[pravata]

What I heard was that is was all a formality and he was all but locked up for 2008.  Guess that was wrong if the Astros are talking to him.

Other than Wade's drift net approach, I've found nothing specific that the Astros have any unusual interest in Chacon.  I'm interested about the source of this post.

[Noe]

A poster on clutchfans posted this.  He has posted inside information that has come to fruition before, so I was just seeing if anyone here had heard anything. 

That would be a great inside source if he's getting as close to a GM as one can get type of information.  Ed Wade doesn't mind telling the media these sort of things to bolster the appearance of working hard for the fan's sake.  I would think a media member would've had this same information by now and posting it in some blog for the fan's consumption.

When the numero uno concern from fans is the lack of starting pitching depth, PR Ed is going to use any of this type of information to appease the masses.  We will know in the next few days at this point.

[Limey]

That would be a great inside source if he's getting as close to a GM as one can get type of information.  Ed Wade doesn't mind telling the media these sort of things to bolster the appearance of working hard for the fan's sake.  I would think a media member would've had this same information by now and posting it in some blog for the fan's consumption.

When the numero uno concern from fans is the lack of starting pitching depth, PR Ed is going to use any of this type of information to appease the masses.  We will know in the next few days at this point.

Next we'll hear that he's engineering a trade for Roy Oswalt.

[JackAstro]

Other than Wade's drift net approach, I've found nothing specific that the Astros have any unusual interest in Chacon.  I'm interested about the source of this post.

I'm not interested in the source at all. Specious, uncredited rumors are the oxygen that combines with the gasoline of porn to drive the internal combustion engine that we call the internets. All of us here? We are the spark plugs dutifully igniting that combustion. Limey, we need 500cc of topless Scarlett Johansson to go with this Chacon story, stat.

[Duman]

Last I read, 2 weeks ago the Pirates were talking to him.  The Rockies talked about him and passed.

Looks like the Rockies still have limited interest as of 2/3.

ROCKIES RETURN?: Colorado Rockies co-owner Charlie Monfort said he was hoping to talk to former Greeley Central baseball standout Shawn Chacon at the breakfast to gauge his interest in returning to Colorado. Although Monfort said the Rockies have some interest in talking to Chacon, a free agent who played for the Pittsburgh Pirates last season, Monfort sounded unwilling to sign anything more than a one-year deal.

From the same article a great story told by Nolan Ryan about Gene Autry:

In his famous strong southern Texas drawl, Ryan told of a time former California Angels owner Gene Autry spoke to a group of people after spending most of the day with an alcoholic beverage in hand.

"By the time Gene got up to speak, Gene had been over-served," Ryan said. "So he gets up and looks out over the audience like this and he says, 'You know, sitting here tonight gave me an opportunity to admire all of you beautiful women. You all remind me of a beautiful rose garden.'

"And he says, 'But as in all rose gardens, there's a few weeds.' And he says, 'Don't look around. You know who you are.' I thought that was probably one of the funniest things I'd ever heard."

[Noe]

Next we'll hear that he's engineering a trade for Roy Oswalt.

Actually, what I found interesting is how frank and up front Ed Wade was about the negotiation process (arbitration) for Valverde and Loretta had gone.  That was pretty much put out there for media consumption, unlike in the days past with Hunsicker and Purpura.  Refreshing?  A little, but also a bit too inside the gates for fan consumption, but that's just me on that one.

The Valverde dealing is looking like it could be a mess in terms of player/organization relations once all is said and done.

[Andyzipp]

That would be a great inside source if he's getting as close to a GM as one can get type of information.  Ed Wade doesn't mind telling the media these sort of things to bolster the appearance of working hard for the fan's sake.  I would think a media member would've had this same information by now and posting it in some blog for the fan's consumption.

When the numero uno concern from fans is the lack of starting pitching depth, PR Ed is going to use any of this type of information to appease the masses.  We will know in the next few days at this point.

It's entirely possible that McHorrid and The Jesus are too busy digging through Roger Clemens garbage pails to have caught a whif of the news.

[Noe]

It's entirely possible that McHorrid and The Jesus are too busy digging through Roger Clemens garbage pails to have caught a whif of the news.

True.  So very true.

[jbm]

The Valverde dealing is looking like it could be a mess in terms of player/organization relations once all is said and done.

Did something else happen recently, or is this based on his on-field antics or 'the Berkman doesn't welcome him' thing.

[pravata]

I'm not interested in the source at all. Specious, uncredited rumors are the oxygen that combines with the gasoline of porn to drive the internal combustion engine that we call the internets. All of us here? We are the spark plugs dutifully igniting that combustion. Limey, we need 500cc of topless Scarlett Johansson to go with this Chacon story, stat.

But not here.  I think it's a public service to let a new poster know that the TZ is a different sort of place.  If you have a source, credit it.  If not your posts will be given the attention they deserve.  I don't think Limey needs a special invitation, or reason to post SJ links either.

[Noe]

Did something else happen recently, or is this based on his on-field antics or 'the Berkman doesn't welcome him' thing.

They're going to arbitration court with Valverde and Wade said specifically that they will not negotiate with the player or agent up until the court date as has been the norm for most MLB organizations.  In essence, they're going to go to the mat on this one (and Loretta).  Take the offer they've made or leave it, but in arbitration they will come out guns blazing to make their case.  Usually that requires some heavy handed presentation by the team and it usually gets real ugly for the player.

See: Kile, Daryl

[pravata]

Did something else happen recently, or is this based on his on-field antics or 'the Berkman doesn't welcome him' thing.

Cooper quipped that he might break out a pair of boxing gloves during his first full-squad meeting, throw them on the ground and ask if anybody needs to handle some business with any of his new teammates before getting started.

"Then we'll move on and leave everything in the past," Cooper said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5528541.html

The Astros are suddenly? oddly tone deaf to the way they are presenting themselves to the public.

[offthelidge]

But not here.  I think it's a public service to let a new poster know that the TZ is a different sort of place.  If you have a source, credit it.  If not your posts will be given the attention they deserve.  I don't think Limey needs a special invitation, or reason to post SJ links either.

Here's the link:

clutchfans thread

He is now saying that it should go down by the end of the week.

[Bench]

Here's the link:

clutchfans thread

He is now saying that it should go down by the end of the week.

Does he work for the architecture firm that is redesigning MMPUS?

[Kent's Moustache]

I'm not interested in the source at all. Specious, uncredited rumors are the oxygen that combines with the gasoline of porn to drive the internal combustion engine that we call the internets. All of us here? We are the spark plugs dutifully igniting that combustion. Limey, we need 500cc of topless Scarlett Johansson to go with this Chacon story, stat.

POTWA

[MusicMan]

The Valverde dealing is looking like it could be a mess in terms of player/organization relations once all is said and done.

I think it's been a rather direct way of announcing that Valverde is their closer thru 2009, and no further.

[Noe]

I think it's been a rather direct way of announcing that Valverde is their closer thru 2009, and no further.

Yes.  What I think they're clearly announcing.  It puts Paulino back on the radar as the future closer or if not him, Nieve or some one like that.

[Limey]

Limey, we need 500cc of topless Scarlett Johansson to go with this Chacon story, stat.

How about Scarlett's boobage surrounded by booze?

[JackAstro]

How about Scarlett's boobage surrounded by booze?

Perfect, we've kept the whole thing running for one more day. Raise a glass, everybody, but rest not on your laurels. Without your continued vigilance, the supply of rumors and porn could well dry up, leaving us to deal with the terrifying possibility of putting on a pair of pants and finding out whether or not there is a world beyond the top of the basement stairs. I, for one, don't care to know.

[pravata]

Perfect, we've kept the whole thing running for one more day. Raise a glass, everybody, but rest not on your laurels. Without your continued vigilance, the supply of rumors and porn could well dry up, leaving us to deal with the terrifying possibility of putting on a pair of pants and finding out whether or not there is a world beyond the top of the basement stairs. I, for one, don't care to know.

There is.  Eh.

[Limey]

There is.  Eh.

It's where the fridge is.

[The Spleen]

'the Berkman doesn't welcome him' thing.

I'm visualizing a new Astro being led into the locker room, where Cecil Cooper is holding Berkman on a leash. Lance emits a low growl and then starts sniffing him furiously.
Cooper: "Don't worry, he's just getting to know you. The most important thing is to not show fear..."

[homer]

...The most important thing is to not show fear..."

and bring pancakes. or twinkies.

[strosrays]

How about Scarlett's boobage surrounded by booze?

I'm trying to figure out. . . there are like six wine glasses in front of her (along with several different bottles, I swear one looks like Asti Spumante), at least two of which are full, the rest are empty.  Is this like, a wine-tasting thing?  Or is she known as a serious boozer (not bad in the short run, may be in the long run)?

That's what I want to know.  That, and the soft, white underside of her right er, mammary.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm trying to figure out. . . there are like six wine glasses in front of her (along with several different bottles, I swear one looks like Asti Spumante), at least two of which are full, the rest are empty.  Is this like, a wine-tasting thing?  Or is she known as a serious boozer (not bad in the short run, may be in the long run)?

That's what I want to know.  That, and the soft, white underside of her right er, mammary.

It appears to be fancy dinner.  Not the kind of fancy where pravata just has to put his pants on, the kind where you have to wear socks and shoes.  From the two forks placed on the left (her left, your right) side of her plate, it appears that it's early in the evening.  There are numerous glasses in front of her, including what appears to be a water glass, a white wine glass, a red wine glass, and a champagne flute.  The flute is full.  I would say the salad (probably a mix of field greens with a red wine vinaegrette) comes next followed by the main course (a choice of beef, chicken or fish) with the accompanying wine.  I think you've got a long ways to go before the opportunity to explore her mammary.

[strosrays]

It appears to be fancy dinner.  Not the kind of fancy where pravata just has to put his pants on, the kind where you have to wear socks and shoes.  From the two forks placed on the left (her left, your right) side of her plate, it appears that it's early in the evening.  There are numerous glasses in front of her, including what appears to be a water glass, a white wine glass, a red wine glass, and a champagne flute.  The flute is full.  I would say the salad (probably a mix of field greens with a red wine vinaegrette) comes next followed by the main course (a choice of beef, chicken or fish) with the accompanying wine.  I think you've got a long ways to go before the opportunity to explore her mammary.

Yes.  Quite.

[Outlawscotty]

Yes.  Quite.

But...he's saying there's a chance......

[pravata]

It appears to be fancy dinner.  Not the kind of fancy where pravata just has to put his pants on, the kind where you have to wear socks and shoes.  From the two forks placed on the left (her left, your right) side of her plate, it appears that it's early in the evening.  There are numerous glasses in front of her, including what appears to be a water glass, a white wine glass, a red wine glass, and a champagne flute.  The flute is full.  I would say the salad (probably a mix of field greens with a red wine vinaegrette) comes next followed by the main course (a choice of beef, chicken or fish) with the accompanying wine.  I think you've got a long ways to go before the opportunity to explore her mammary.

No, this lays out definitely as a pants optional supper.  I'd flog the bus boys however.

[cougar]

No, this lays out definitely as a pants optional supper.  I'd flog the bus boys however.

Should I even ask with what?

[Limey]

Should I even ask with what?

Please tell me you know to flog the bus boy before every major dinner!

[Lurch]

Please tell me you know to flog the bus boy before every major dinner!

That's like going out there with a loaded gun!  Of course that's why your nervous.

[cougar]

Please tell me you know to flog the bus boy before every major dinner!

I am sorry, but I'm a fan of the classics.  My 'floggings' are more like "spankings".  Followed by wrestling in the ancient Greek style of course.  I'm more of a hands-on kind of master.  I go through a lot of servants, but by God they will learn discipline!

[Gizzmonic]

It appears to be fancy dinner.  Not the kind of fancy where pravata just has to put his pants on, the kind where you have to wear socks and shoes.  From the two forks placed on the left (her left, your right) side of her plate, it appears that it's early in the evening.  There are numerous glasses in front of her, including what appears to be a water glass, a white wine glass, a red wine glass, and a champagne flute.  The flute is full.  I would say the salad (probably a mix of field greens with a red wine vinaegrette) comes next followed by the main course (a choice of beef, chicken or fish) with the accompanying wine.  I think you've got a long ways to go before the opportunity to explore her mammary.

Another fine piece of detective work by HudsonHawk, Breast Investigator.

[Ty in Tampa]

How about Scarlett's boobage surrounded by booze?

"May I take in your profundities...ehh...take your plate, Ma'am?"

[toddthebod]

Not to bring this thread back to Shawn Chacon, but if he was signed, I am assuming that the Astros would be looking at him as a potential starter cause they already have a lot of relievers.

He had 4 starts last season for the Pirates:

He went 3.2 innings against the Reds, giving up 1 run on 3 hits and 5 walks;
He went 7 innings against the Padres giving up 0 runs on 3 hits and 1 walk + 10Ks;
He went 5.1 innings against the Nats giving up 4 runs on 8 hits and 3 walks; and
He went 3.1 innings against the Yankees giving up 7 runs on 8 hits and 3 walks.

I see one good outing here and one good half season with the Yankees.  Is this an upgrade anywhere?

[TheWizard]

I still can't find confirmation of this rumor on any of the sites that I've looked around, other than on clutchfans.  Has anyone else?

[JackAstro]

Not to bring this thread back to Shawn Chacon, but if he was signed, I am assuming that the Astros would be looking at him as a potential starter cause they already have a lot of relievers.

He had 4 starts last season for the Pirates:

He went 3.2 innings against the Reds, giving up 1 run on 3 hits and 5 walks;
He went 7 innings against the Padres giving up 0 runs on 3 hits and 1 walk + 10Ks;
He went 5.1 innings against the Nats giving up 4 runs on 8 hits and 3 walks; and
He went 3.1 innings against the Yankees giving up 7 runs on 8 hits and 3 walks.

I see one good outing here and one good half season with the Yankees.  Is this an upgrade anywhere?

I'd assume that if the Astros brought in Chacon, it would be to compete for a starting job (rather than being handed one), with a slide into the bullpen if he can't win the 5th spot in the rotation. Seems like a pretty reasonable move, given that at least two pitchers are likely to try their hand at that role over the course of the season, probably more - they're going to need some relievers who are ready to take a turn.

[pravata]

I still can't find confirmation of this rumor on any of the sites that I've looked around, other than on clutchfans.  Has anyone else?

Nope.  Not a peep.  That's searching for news on Chacon separately as well as on the Astros.  I'm reserving judgement at this time.

[Andyzipp]

Nope.  Not a peep.  That's searching for news on Chacon separately as well as on the Astros.  I'm reserving judgement at this time.

No one I've talked to either...but Chacon likely wouldn't show up on my guy's radar until it was just about done.

[Limey]

No one I've talked to either...but Chacon likely wouldn't show up on my guy's radar until it was just about done.

FIFY

[Andyzipp]

FIFY

Projecting again, are you?

[Limey]

Projecting again, are you?

Just happy to grab any balls you drop.

[cougar]

Just happy to grab any balls you drop.

I'm hoping you're about 20 years too late.  Although Andy always did strike me as the "late bloomer" type.

[billemite]

Footer reports an offer has been made. http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080212&content_id=2371309&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Noe]

Footer reports an offer has been made. http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080212&content_id=2371309&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Nicely done by Ms. Footer to chase this one down.  Props to ClutchFans.net for breaking that one for the media.

[MusicMan]

An NL Central team like the Astros would be a good home for a guy who struggles with lefties as much as Chacon does.

[TheWizard]

Nicely done by Ms. Footer to chase this one down.  Props to ClutchFans.net for breaking that one for the media.

An internet rumor.. that was TRUE.  I think I just saw a pig fly by my window.

[pravata]

An internet rumor.. that was TRUE.  I think I just saw a pig fly by my window.

Keeping score, I'd say internet rumors are every bit as accurate as what reporters post, Ringolsby assured us that Livan Hernandez was going to sign with the Nationals.  But, as interesting as these developments are, lets remember, "I'm talking to his agent but we haven't reached any agreement yet," Wade said.

[Froback]

Let's temper this a bit too with the comment that Chacon would prefer to stay with the Pirates but that he isn't good enough to win one of THEIR spots in the starting rotation.

So we are chasing a starting pitcher that isn't good enough to make the Pirates rotation.  Now, the Pirates rotation is better now than it has been in a long time, but still.  Should give you a perspective in what Chacon is being brought in for, namely to compete for the 5th spot, not the 2nd spot.

[Burzmali]

An internet rumor.. that was TRUE.  I think I just saw a pig fly by my window.

Not really a rumor, it was from a poster with a source. MadMax isn't the type of guy to make up stuff to get attention.

[MusicMan]

Let's temper this a bit too with the comment that Chacon would prefer to stay with the Pirates but that he isn't good enough to win one of THEIR spots in the starting rotation.

So we are chasing a starting pitcher that isn't good enough to make the Pirates rotation.  Now, the Pirates rotation is better now than it has been in a long time, but still.  Should give you a perspective in what Chacon is being brought in for, namely to compete for the 5th spot, not the 2nd spot.

Currently, the Astros' 3rd, 4th, and 5th spots are interchangable.

[Froback]

Currently, the Astros' 3rd, 4th, and 5th spots are interchangable.

VERY true.  Adding Chacon isn't likely to change that fact was more my point.

[TheWizard]

Not really a rumor, it was from a poster with a source. MadMax isn't the type of guy to make up stuff to get attention.

Rumor- A piece of information of questionable accuracy, from no known reliable source, usually spread by word of mouth

Not to take anything away from MadMax since he was correct.. that is still the definition of a rumor.  MadMax just actually had a source, and the rumor was true.  A rumor doesn't have to be false.

[pravata]

Not really a rumor, it was from a poster with a source. MadMax isn't the type of guy to make up stuff to get attention.

Unfortunately his reputation does not extend into this discussion group.  I had no reason to doubt the information, nor any reason to trust it either.  Next time I will though.

[Noe]

Unfortunately his reputation does not extend into this discussion group.  I had no reason to doubt the information, nor any reason to trust it either.  Next time I will though.

To be fair, the guy said his source said that the Astros were about to sign Chacon and the name came out of nowhere for all of us.  Footer just chased it (wouldn't be surprised if she read it here and got on it) and made sure we knew whether there was even a remote possibility that this was a name on Ed Wade's radar.  While they're not close to signing according to Wade, at the very least this rumor became very credible because the name was absolutely dead spot on.

Kudos to the ClutchFan poster.  Well done!

[TheWizard]

To be fair, the guy said his source said that the Astros were about to sign Chacon and the name came out of nowhere for all of us.  Footer just chased it (wouldn't be surprised if she read it here and got on it) and made sure we knew whether there was even a remote possibility that this was a name on Ed Wade's radar.  While they're not close to signing according to Wade, at the very least this rumor became very credible because the name was absolutely dead spot on.

Kudos to the ClutchFan poster.  Well done!

MadMax definitely knew what he was talking about.

[Ty in Tampa]

An internet rumor.. that was TRUE.  I think I just saw a pig fly by my window.

My concern: How does this affect the gasoline of porn?

[T. J.]

My concern: How does this affect the gasoline of porn?

It ain't (quite) porn, but the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition/website is out today.  Bodypaint!

[Limey]

It ain't (quite) porn, but the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition/website is out today.  Bodypaint!

I'll be in my bunk.

[TheWizard]

It ain't (quite) porn, but the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition/website is out today.  Bodypaint!

I was about to type out some witty response about how the SI swimsuit edition is outdated and no one cares about it anymore.. then I clicked the link and Marisa Miller reeled me back in.

[OregonStrosFan]

Ah yes, Shawn Chacon

[Burzmali]

Unfortunately his reputation does not extend into this discussion group.  I had no reason to doubt the information, nor any reason to trust it either.  Next time I will though.

Fair enough.

[toddthebod]

Ah yes, Shawn Chacon

That's pretty funny.  So assuming that Chacon signs, does Oswalt walk around calling him "Bitch."

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It ain't (quite) porn, but the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition/website is out today.  Bodypaint!

Some guy has a job where he gets paid to paint a swimsuit on Jessica Gomes. I don't remember any guidance councelor ever telling me about such a vocation... the bastards.   Gets paid.

[OregonStrosFan]

That's pretty funny.  So assuming that Chacon signs, does Oswalt walk around calling him "Bitch."

Or Andy (at least until this morning anyway...).

[pravata]

Wade is still waiting to hear from agent Dan Horwits, who represents free-agent right-hander Shawn Chacon. Gottfried sent Horwits a text message Thursday, but because Horwits was involved with Brian Fuentes' arbitration hearing that day, Wade did not expect to receive an immediate response.
"Hopefully [Friday]," Wade said.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080214&content_id=2373287&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[MusicMan]

Gottfried sent Horwits a text message Thursday, but because Horwits was involved with Brian Fuentes' arbitration hearing that day

Good lord.  The teenagers have taken over the Earth.

Do u wnt to sign w me?

_ Y
_ N

[Limey]

Do u wnt to sign w me?

_ Y
_ N

Way too literal.  Texting now has moved beyond truncated wrds to simply accepting whatever the predictive software gives you, and letting the recipient figure it out.

[Lurch]

OMG, bff pam luvs shawn.  cmb tmr, k?  ttyl

[pravata]

Pirates still interested?  This is a q/a in a chat in the Pitts. Post Gazette, 2/13

j_s15226: Have you heard anything on the shawn Chacon front? It seems to make too much sense on both sides to not get something done.

Jerry Micco: Nothing more than what we've had. But I'm sure when Dejan Kovacevic heads to Bradenton tomorrow, he'll be looking into that story as well as many others surrounding the team. But you're right, this seems a no-brainer.
Link

[HudsonHawk]

Way too literal.  Texting now has moved beyond truncated wrds to simply accepting whatever the predictive software gives you, and letting the recipient figure it out.

I have never understood the logic behind typing something to someone when you can just say it outloud to them.

[tophfar]

I have never understood the logic behind typing something to someone when you can just say it outloud to them.

this is just for myself, but i find it exponentially less intrusive in your daily life than constantly answering an actual call.

[JimR]

this is just for myself, but i find it exponentially less intrusive in your daily life than constantly answering an actual call.

me, too. in addition, you can communicate by text in some settings where you cannot answer a call because it would be disruptive.

[HudsonHawk]

me, too. in addition, you can communicate by text in some settings where you cannot answer a call because it would be disruptive.

No doubt it has some uses.  I'm talking about texting people sitting across the table from you or next to you on the bus.  If someone is sitting next to me needs to tell me something, I just expect them to lean over and say it.  I guess I'm just "old school" that way.

[HudsonHawk]

this is just for myself, but i find it exponentially less intrusive in your daily life than constantly answering an actual call.

I don't see where answering text messages where people have to inform you every time a thought pops into their head is any less annoying than answering the phone. 

[Duman]

Soap box warning-

I find that phones & text have created dependence in people where they can't think for themselves.  When I was first starting out and I was out in the field or in a meeting.  I had to think on my feet and create solutions.  Now staff call or text supervisors for answers and thus don't figure out things for themselves.  Easier maybe but I don't find the solutions given by others to be as well learned as those people figured out on their own.

[JimR]

I don't see where answering text messages where people have to inform you every time a thought pops into their head is any less annoying than answering the phone. 

you added a fact here. thought i would not notice, didn't you?

[HudsonHawk]

I keep changing the subject, hoping opposing counsel will be too confused to cross examine.

[JimR]

Soap box warning-

I find that phones & text have created dependence in people where they can't think for themselves.  When I was first starting out and I was out in the field or in a meeting.  I had to think on my feet and create solutions.  Now staff call or text supervisors for answers and thus don't figure out things for themselves.  Easier maybe but I don't find the solutions given by others to be as well learned as those people figured out on their own.

same thing happens with young lawyers who do not/will not learn legal research. it is easier to mass email asking if anyone knows the answer.

it is not technology's fault. it is their professors' fault for not teaching/requiring legal research. it is their fault for being lazy and seeking the easy way for everything. it is their supervisors' fault for not insisting that they do it the right way even if it takes longer.

[Duman]

Parents have fallen into the same trap.  Instead of teaching their children how to make good decisions, they are giving 4th & 5th graders cell phones.  I read an article awhile back that called cell phones the new apron strings

[JGrave]

Shawn-

Houston?
Holla
K thx bai
Ed

[JimR]

Parents have fallen into the same trap.  Instead of teaching their children how to make good decisions, they are giving 4th & 5th graders cell phones.  I read an article awhile back that called cell phones the new apron strings

apron strings are appropriate for young children, not for college students. parents can screen those calls, you know. it is not technology's fault. it is us.

[Jacksonian]

apron strings are appropriate for young children, not for college students. parents can screen those calls, you know. it is not technology's fault. it is us.

For college students they're called helicopter parents.  Blackhawk parents if they are maniacal.

[strosrays]

My next door neighbor surreptitiously put a GPS type tracking device in his 17-year-old's pickup truck, so he knows everywhere the kid goes, how long he stays, how fast he drives, etc.

Now, on several levels, that's fucked up.

[Limey]

I don't see where answering text messages where people have to inform you every time a thought pops into their head is any less annoying than answering the phone. 

Much easier to hold people at arms length via text message, than to take their call and be subjected to a stream of (their) conscienousness that you cannot politely interrupt.

[Limey]

Soap box warning-

I find that phones & text have created dependence in people where they can't think for themselves.  When I was first starting out and I was out in the field or in a meeting.  I had to think on my feet and create solutions.  Now staff call or text supervisors for answers and thus don't figure out things for themselves.  Easier maybe but I don't find the solutions given by others to be as well learned as those people figured out on their own.

This is the general malaise resulting from ease of communication.  Think about it, in Victorian times when you were the Ambassador to some place far, far away, it would take weeks or months to get some input from your bosses.  So, you went with your own choice and lived with it.  Now, no one is allowed to be autonomous because (a) the boss is a second away; and (b) if you don't get managerial approval your arse is grarse.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

My next door neighbor surreptitiously put a GPS type tracking device in his 17-year-old's pickup truck, so he knows everywhere the kid goes, how long he stays, how fast he drives, etc.

Now, on several levels, that's fucked up.

Gosh, that sounds familiar.  If the technology is judged by those who use it, um....I agree with your sentiment.

[Crusher_Joe]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7812638/RHP-Chacon-could-join-Astros-rotation

Close to a deal with Chacon, according to Rosenthal.

[Reuben]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7812638/RHP-Chacon-could-join-Astros-rotation

Close to a deal with Chacon, according to Rosenthal.

[sarcasm] Thank God they won their arb. case with Valverde- now, and only now, do they have the money to sign Shawn Chacon.[/sarcasm]

[pravata]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7812638/RHP-Chacon-could-join-Astros-rotation

Close to a deal with Chacon, according to Rosenthal.

Certainly the Astros are trying.  But Rosenthal is not a reliable reporter on the Astros.  He's the Mclane demands Lidge traded source.

[toddthebod]

same thing happens with young lawyers who do not/will not learn legal research. it is easier to mass email asking if anyone knows the answer.

Jim, I agree with you that most junior lawyers do not have research skills.  I'm not sure whose fault that is.

But when you have institutional clients scrutinizing every bill -- and in many cases refusing to pay for legal research (under the theory that they are coming to you because you already know the answer) -- the first thing that you should do is find out if someone else already knows the answer to the question.  I required my junior associates to send out such emails (to a focused group of people) even if I knew that they were good researchers.

Legal research, unless supervised carefully, can turn into dozens of hours of work (particularly for young associates), which is what caused the backlash from clients in the first place.

If firms were really diligent, they would create truly accessible memo and brief databases, which would minimize the emails from young lawyers, but again, few firms want to spend the money or manpower to make sure that those files are maintained in an accessible fashion.   

[JimR]

Jim, I agree with you that most junior lawyers do not have research skills.  I'm not sure whose fault that is.

But when you have institutional clients scrutinizing every bill -- and in many cases refusing to pay for legal research (under the theory that they are coming to you because you already know the answer) -- the first thing that you should do is find out if someone else already knows the answer to the question.  I required my junior associates to send out such emails (to a focused group of people) even if I knew that they were good researchers.

Legal research, unless supervised carefully, can turn into dozens of hours of work (particularly for young associates), which is what caused the backlash from clients in the first place.

If firms were really diligent, they would create truly accessible memo and brief databases, which would minimize the emails from young lawyers, but again, few firms want to spend the money or manpower to make sure that those files are maintained in an accessible fashion.   

nonsense, Todd. billing attorneys have written off junior attorneys' learning curve hours since time immemorial. laziness is the answer, and the result is that junior does not learn how to be a lawyer. you were an enabler. so is a brief bank. that teaches the young lawyer nothing but plagiarism.

[toddthebod]

I'm not talking about writing off "learning curve" hours.  I'm talking about clients not allowing you to bill AT ALL for legal research; clients who require detailed budgets at the beginning of every engagement and then again on a quarterly basis.  And then cutting your bottom-line budgets by 25% and holding you to their cuts even when you disagreed.  If you don't have such clients, consider yourself lucky, but this was a major reason why I left private practice.  The competition for clients is ridiculous in certain cities and practice areas, and the outrageous salaries and bonuses provided to junior lawyers has only made it worse.  And I am not even touching on the issue of firms penalizing partners for hours written off.

As for your "plagiarism" idea, this may be the dumbest thing you have ever said.  Ask any corporate lawyer if he uses terms from one deal as the basis for the next.  Of course he does.  There is a state of the art and you use it.  When you are making a 12(b)(6) motion, do you re-research the standard for dismissal?  Of course not.  And for more complex issues, no lawyer worth discussing simply takes whole sections from one brief and puts it in another without more.  Research from earlier briefs and memos is simply a starting point (like the responses you get from the emails you send).  You shepardize the cases, do additional research to find cases that more closely resemble your facts, revise earlier briefs to meet the facts of your case.   But it is a lot easier to research a compex issue when you are given a starting point.  There is nothing "lazy" about this process at all.

[geezerdonk]

nonsense, Todd. billing attorneys have written off junior attorneys' learning curve hours since time immemorial. laziness is the answer, and the result is that junior does not learn how to be a lawyer. you were an enabler. so is a brief bank. that teaches the young lawyer nothing but plagiarism.

doing legal research = learning how to be a lawyer?

[pravata]

I suspect that we will not hear anything more about Chacon until Thursday,
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/feb/15/funeral-service-set-for-bus-campbell/

[JimR]

doing legal research = learning how to be a lawyer?

yes, it is--a very important part of it. it once was taught in law school.

[BudGirl]

yes, it is--a very important part of it. it once was taught in law school.

I hate it when someone can't/won't look for the answer themself. 

[JimR]

I'm not talking about writing off "learning curve" hours.  I'm talking about clients not allowing you to bill AT ALL for legal research; clients who require detailed budgets at the beginning of every engagement and then again on a quarterly basis.  And then cutting your bottom-line budgets by 25% and holding you to their cuts even when you disagreed.  If you don't have such clients, consider yourself lucky, but this was a major reason why I left private practice.  The competition for clients is ridiculous in certain cities and practice areas, and the outrageous salaries and bonuses provided to junior lawyers has only made it worse.  And I am not even touching on the issue of firms penalizing partners for hours written off.

As for your "plagiarism" idea, this may be the dumbest thing you have ever said.  Ask any corporate lawyer if he uses terms from one deal as the basis for the next.  Of course he does.  There is a state of the art and you use it.  When you are making a 12(b)(6) motion, do you re-research the standard for dismissal?  Of course not.  And for more complex issues, no lawyer worth discussing simply takes whole sections from one brief and puts it in another without more.  Research from earlier briefs and memos is simply a starting point (like the responses you get from the emails you send).  You shepardize the cases, do additional research to find cases that more closely resemble your facts, revise earlier briefs to meet the facts of your case.   But it is a lot easier to research a compex issue when you are given a starting point.  There is nothing "lazy" about this process at all.

WFW. sure corporate lawyers cut and paste. they could not find the library with a map and a guide and would not know what to do with a book if they found it open. some poor junior slob somewhere is researching and telling them the answers, though.

total laziness. don't find out the answer or even learn where to find it. just ask someone who knows.

perhaps you chose the wrong firm and/or the wrong city. mine does not behave in that manner.

[pravata]

yes, it is--a very important part of it. it once was taught in law school.

Now they teach Westlaw.

[toddthebod]

yes, it is--a very important part of it. it once was taught in law school.

I am not disagreeing that research skills are important to teach.  I think that learning how to analyze cases is more important, but you have to know how to research.

With the advent of LEXIS and Westlaw, it would be difficult to dedicate an entire law school course to legal research.  There used to be a lot of books you had to review before you could reach a comfort level that you understood the law.  At one point in time (Jim probably remembers this time fondly [that's a joke Jim]) the restatements were the most important research tools.  And Shepards (don't forget the pocket parts) was the best way of determining whether a case still represented good law.  Things change.  I don't remember the last time I looked at the legal encyclopedias or books like NY Jur.  (I was pretty much instructed as a first year never to rely on NY Jur. anyway.)  I still read Moore's and Wright & Miller, which are invaluable on procedural issues.  And there are some CCH publications that I read.  But I recently read somewhere that most district court opinions aren't even published in book form these days and are only available through the electronic reporters and other secondary reporters.  I would be curious to hear Pravata's view on this subject.  Maybe he'll weigh in.

[matadorph]

Westlaw is a tremendous resource, but I get more fulfillment chasing down case law through Shepard's and ALR than simply logging on to my computer.

[toddthebod]

Westlaw is a tremendous resource, but I get more fulfillment chasing down case law through Shepard's and ALR than simply logging on to my computer.

I get no fulfillment chasing down case law through the hard copies of Shepards.  Going back and forth between the Shepards and the Reporters is a pain in the ass, especially when books are missing from the shelves.  The LEXIS and Westlaw alternatives to Shepards are so much easier.  Click on the citing case, it takes you right to the page in the decision where your case is being discussed.  See a discussion of a different case in the citing case and you click right to that case and to the right page.  Not to mention the fact that I totally messed up my shoulder reaching for books at the top shelf of the library -- damn those heavy books.

[pravata]

Westlaw is a tremendous resource, but I get more fulfillment chasing down case law through Shepard's and ALR than simply logging on to my computer.

"Fulfillment" isnt the issue.  I get tickled when someone tells me how much fun they have doing research.  Not supposed to be fun boy, you're supposed to find the law and go represent the client.  What is lost with online sources is how the law fits together.  There's a lot of people who dont understand where the regulations come from and how a law is made.  "I'm Just a Bill" should be on these peoples iPods.

[JimR]

I get no fulfillment chasing down case law through the hard copies of Shepards. 

hahahahahahaha

[pravata]

I am not disagreeing that research skills are important to teach.  I think that learning how to analyze cases is more important, but you have to know how to research.

With the advent of LEXIS and Westlaw, it would be difficult to dedicate an entire law school course to legal research.  There used to be a lot of books you had to review before you could reach a comfort level that you understood the law.  At one point in time (Jim probably remembers this time fondly [that's a joke Jim]) the restatements were the most important research tools.  And Shepards (don't forget the pocket parts) was the best way of determining whether a case still represented good law.  Things change.  I don't remember the last time I looked at the legal encyclopedias or books like NY Jur.  (I was pretty much instructed as a first year never to rely on NY Jur. anyway.)  I still read Moore's and Wright & Miller, which are invaluable on procedural issues.  And there are some CCH publications that I read.  But I recently read somewhere that most district court opinions aren't even published in book form these days and are only available through the electronic reporters and other secondary reporters.  I would be curious to hear Pravata's view on this subject.  Maybe he'll weigh in.

Online is for searching, books are for researching.  Recently, I had a guy who was looking for a phrase online.  Couldn't find any help. We went and looked at an index in a set on the topic and found that he had the two word phrase reversed.  Went back and searched the proper way and I haven't heard from him since. And that is how I measure success. (yes, he could have searched w/2 but he didnt)  Saying one way is better than another, or worse, that you prefer one method over another, is missing the point.   The answer is what you want, not the process.

[pravata]

hahahahahahaha

They don't publish Shepards any longer.  But I did have a partner threaten me if we stopped getting Texas Subsequent History Tables.

[geezerdonk]

An interesting off season discussion. A few thoughts:

Of all the ills that afflict the legal profession and the administration of justice, the inability or unwillingness of (young) lawyers to do legal research isn't in the top thousand.

In practicing law, a ratio of 20 to 1 common sense to legal research skill is just about right.

Is Westlaw the most obscenely priced commodity/service in the market place?

[pravata]

An interesting off season discussion. A few thoughts:

Of all the ills that afflict the legal profession and the administration of justice, the inability or unwillingness of (young) lawyers to do legal research isn't in the top thousand.

In practicing law, a ratio of 20 to 1 common sense to legal research skill is just about right.

Is Westlaw the most obscenely priced commodity/service in the market place?

I worked for a large oil company a long time ago.  Their GC didn't want to spend money keeping the library up to date, and suggested that they were going to have to "accept a certain level of ambiguity" in their knowledge of the law.  Several years later I was gratified to learn that that oil company got tripped up on a certain federal regulation that they had failed to note had changed.   Westlaw is crack.  They get students hooked and Thomson/West can tell them anything after that and they'll believe it.

[matadorph]

"Fulfillment" isnt the issue.  I get tickled when someone tells me how much fun they have doing research.  Not supposed to be fun boy, you're supposed to find the law and go represent the client. 

Man, did someone salt your doughnut or what?

Time for me to scoot on down to the Tarlton library and work on my misery.

[pravata]

Man, did someone salt your doughnut or what?

Time for me to scoot on down to the Tarlton library and work on my misery.

Noooo.  I'm just saying the answer is what you're after, as quick as possible too.  So you can then advise your client. That's why they refer to lawyers as counsellor and not researcher.

[OregonStrosFan]

Westlaw is crack.

Nice!  Guess its fair to say then that Westlaw = crack; young associates = crackwhores?

[JimR]

Nice!  Guess its fair to say then that Westlaw = crack; young associates = crackwhores?

they do not even use Westlaw; they send mass emails asking if anyone knows the answer to the question they are supposed to answer.

[pravata]

Nice!  Guess its fair to say then that Westlaw = crack; young associates = crackwhores?

Only because when they're in law school they get it for free and then suddenly, in the real world, they find out they have to pay for it.  Rude shock.

[pravata]

they do not even use Westlaw; they send mass emails asking if anyone knows the answer to the question they are supposed to answer.

A Wikifirm.

[Lurch]

Judge should be like, "Guilty".  Peace

[The Spleen]

...and in other news, I am apparently the only person on this board who is not a lawyer.

[MusicMan]

...and in other news, I am apparently the only person on this board who is not a lawyer.

I always knew there was something I liked about you.

[HudsonHawk]

I always knew there was something I liked about you.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm sleeping with my accountant, which I find equally useful.

[MusicMan]

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm sleeping with my accountant, which I find equally useful.

I sleep with my accountant too.

What, you think just because I'm a CPA that I get to keep our own books?

[Gleek]

...and in other news, I am apparently the only person on this board who is not a lawyer.

That makes two of us.  Count me as one very confused Chemist.  I do, however, employ a very good lawyer for obvious reasons.

[strosrays]

I sleep with my accountant too.

What, you think just because I'm a CPA that I get to keep our own books?

Well, thanks for elaborating on that.  I found Sentence #1 to be somewhat disturbing, by itself.

Next time your wife balks at something you want to try, tell her its in the FASBes.

[MusicMan]

Well, thanks for elaborating on that.  I found Sentence #1 to be somewhat disturbing, by itself.

Next time your wife balks at something you want to try, tell her its in the FASBes.

Already tried it - she told me it wasn't a "more likely than not" position.

[JaneDoe]

That makes two of us.  Count me as one very confused Chemist.  I do, however, employ a very good lawyer for obvious reasons.

Three of us.  I'm a chemist, too.

[BudGirl]

I'm not a lawyer, but I work with them.

[Duman]

I am a social worker, so all this legal, accounting, chemist stuff just goes right over my head.

[tbone421998]

I'm a purchasing agent but I know a lawyer or two or three.

[Houston]

I don't have a real job. I have a journalism degree and I write for a living.

[mihoba]

I kiss a little bit of ass, and take a whole boatload of shit. Then I go home and do the opposite.

And for the record, I'm not an attorney.

[Guinness]

but I play one on TV...

Actually, IT is my game, one of those IT jobs that even IT people scratch their heads at... (document management software, portals, etc)

[Andyzipp]

I'm in HR.  I am equally useless at a number of tasks.

[Ty in Tampa]

I push a computerized crayon around for money. There's a lawyer in the suite down the hall.

[Gizzmonic]

I work in a laboratory, but I ain't no scientist!

[Taras Bulba]

I am an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect the bill.

[Burzmali]

I'm a law student, and my school teaches us research using books prior to Westlaw/Lexis training.

So who wants to give me a summer job?

[tophfar]

Programmer and part-time CS researcher. 

I make sure things work just bad enough that IT people have job security.

[MRaup]

I make sure things work just bad enough that IT people have job security.

So, whats it like working at Microsoft?

[Waldo]

I'm an audio engineer, aka the person who gets blamed when something goes wrong.

[Jacksonian]

<------ My job, apparently.

[BizidyDizidy]

I mostly try to look busy while reading OWA

[JackAstro]

I'm an archeologist/adventurer with a wry wit and a thirst for danger. Women want me, men want to be me. In my downtime, I sort of do what Ty does, just to pay the bills and whatnot.

[Jacksonian]

I'm an archeologist/adventurer with a wry wit and a thirst for danger. Women want me, men want to be me. In my downtime, I sort of do what Ty does, just to pay the bills and whatnot.

Bullshit.  You're a smart-ass cop who spends most of his time pulling hilarious pranks on his asshole co-workers and who sometimes takes in abandoned babies with the help of his two live-in male friends (NTTAWWT).  And that Ty-like stuff.

And if you don't look like a young Steve Guttenberg in real life, someone is going to pay.

[MusicMan]

Bullshit.  You're a smart-ass cop who spends most of his time pulling hilarious pranks on his asshole co-workers and who sometimes takes in abandoned babies with the help of his two live-in male friends (NTTAWWT).  And that Ty-like stuff.

And if you don't look like a young Steve Guttenberg in real life, someone is going to pay.

You didn't know that Steve Guttenberg was first choice to play Indiana Jones?

[Randy Watson]

I am a lawyer too and have practiced five years.  I was only an average researcher when I graduated from UT Law.  And I tried to take every research class they offered (or classes with practical law applications that required legal research).

I clerked for a very smart federal judge in Houston who loves to write long and detailed opinions.  So, by necessity, my research and writing skills improved tremendously.  In my view, law schools should do a better job teaching legal research.  That being said, law schools should not just be a trade school to teach legal skills that can be learned on the job.  There should be a balance.  Luckily, I clerked for a great judge.  And my firm writes off learning curve time.  I only send out an email asking for the "answer" after I have searched myself.  The partner can write down the bill if it is excessive, but I don't think that is an issue too often.  In my experience, clients don't complaint if the work product top notch.

Research really is not that hard once you learn the fundamentals and practice them.  I use books and Westlaw to research.  Some things are easier to find in the books and some are easier to find on Westlaw.  All things being equal, I prefer online.  The hyperlinks to cites in cases and other authority is handy.  As is the ability to print or copy and paste text.

[pravata]

...Research really is not that hard once you learn the fundamentals and practice them.  ....

Legal research is clock work.  There is no other profession that has so many research aids and is as spoon fed regarding finding the basic information about their subject as is the law.   Still, it is a mystery to many.

[BudGirl]

Bullshit.  You're a smart-ass cop who spends most of his time pulling hilarious pranks on his asshole co-workers and who sometimes takes in abandoned babies with the help of his two live-in male friends (NTTAWWT).  And that Ty-like stuff.

And if you don't look like a young Steve Guttenberg in real life, someone is going to pay.

Plus, he's taking dance lessons.

[MusicMan]

Plus, he's taking dance lessons.

Wait, wait, wait... if Stevie G is going to be on Dancing With the Stars, I may actually have to watch that crapfest.

[JackAstro]

And if you don't look like a young Steve Guttenberg in real life, someone is going to pay.

If you squint real hard, it's probably not too far off, though I don't have the hat. I used to get a lot of "you remind me of the guy from Ed", which morphed into "you remind me of that guy from Scrubs". So I exist somewhere in the the union area of a venn diagram formed from my avatar and this. Which sort of sounds like someone that I'd want to punch.

[austro]

Which sort of sounds like someone that I'd want to punch.

At least you're not named Mike Tyson. You could really hurt yourself.

[BudGirl]

Wait, wait, wait... if Stevie G is going to be on Dancing With the Stars, I may actually have to watch that crapfest.

Guess I know what you'll be watching on Mondays and Tuesdays.

http://abc.go.com/primetime/dancingwiththestars/index?pn=announcement

[Bench]

One year, $2 million to pitch major league baseball.

That's what Shawn Chacon does, not me.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5556400.html

(I didn't see that anyone had noted the deal was now official)

[pravata]

One year, $2 million to pitch major league baseball.

That's what Shawn Chacon does, not me.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5556400.html

(I didn't see that anyone had noted the deal was now official)

Wade, "I know that he had better financial packages out there, but Shawn thinks we can win, and he wants to be part of what we have here. We'll put him into the competition for a spot in the rotation..." Press Release, same as the article That's probably what did it, no one else was going to give him a chance to start.

[Jacksonian]

One year, $2 million to pitch major league baseball.

That's what Shawn Chacon does, not me.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5556400.html

(I didn't see that anyone had noted the deal was now official)

Trying to wreck a perfectly good hijack?

[strosrays]

One year, $2 million to pitch major league baseball.

That's what Shawn Chacon does, not me.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5556400.html

(I didn't see that anyone had noted the deal was now official)

That's Kent Bottenfield money.

Ive been told I resemble Jan Michael Vincent (before the rot set in), or maybe Patrick Swayze.  I am ambivalent about both of those.

I'm a dreamer and a poet and a troubadour and a seducer and a teller of tales.  None of that stuff pays too well, though, so I have a day job.  I'm an electrician by trade, though what I do now is a little bit more involved than that.  I still just pull wire and hook up shit, though, from time to time.

Also, I think I work across the street from Jane Doe, although I am not sure about that.

[Andyzipp]

Ive been told I resemble...Patrick Swayze. 

(http://bluepoppy.omworks.com/photos/chrisfarley.jpg)

[MusicMan]

So why did you and strosrays audition to be Chippendales dancers?

[Andyzipp]

So why did you and strosrays audition to be Chippendales dancers?

That is far more of a HudsonHawk or Raup Jr body type.

[MusicMan]

We did consider the possibility that they would appeal to some of our larger clientele.

[MRaup]

That is far more of a HudsonHawk or Raup Jr body type.

Kiss my grits, Zipp.

[Andyzipp]

I'll buy you a beer or three on opening day.

[toddthebod]

I'm a dreamer and a poet and a troubadour and a seducer and a teller of tales.

I play in a band
We're the best in the land
We're big in both Chelsea and France
I play one mean guitar and then score at the bar
There's a line of chicks waiting for their chance
So come on now honey, I'll make you feel pretty
These other gals mean nothing to me
Let's finish these drinks and be gone for the night
'Cause I'm more than a handfull you'll see

I can bench press a car
I'm an ex football star
with degrees from both harvard and yale
Girls just can't keep up
I'm a real love machine
I've had far better sex while in jail
I designed the Sears tower
I make two grand an hour
I cook the world's best duck flambe
I'll take the pick of the LITTER
And girls jockey for me
I don't need these lines to get laid

I'm the man of the night
A real ladies delight
See, my figure was chisEled from stone
One more for the gal then I'll escort her home
Come last call, I'm never alone
I own a house on the hill with a red water bed
It puts Hugh Hefner's mansion to shame
With girls by the pool and italian sports cars
I'm just here in this dump for the gig

Ahh, fuck it. Who am I shittin'?

I'm a pitiful SIGHT
And I ain't all that bright
I'm definitly not chisEled from stone
I'm a cheat and a liar
No womAn's desire
I'll probably die cold and alone

But just give me a chance
Cause deep down inside
I swear I got a big heart of gold
I'm a monogamous man
No more one night stands
Come on, Honey let me take you home

[cougar]

I play in a band
We're the best in the land
We're big in both Chelsea and France
I play one mean guitar and then score at the bar
There's a line of chicks waiting for their chance
So come on now honey, I'll make you feel pretty
These other gals mean nothing to me
Let's finish these drinks and be gone for the night
'Cause I'm more than a handfull you'll see

I can bench press a car
I'm an ex football star
with degrees from both harvard and yale
Girls just can't keep up
I'm a real love machine
I've had far better sex while in jail
I designed the Sears tower
I make two grand an hour
I cook the world's best duck flambe
I'll take the pick of the LITTER
And girls jockey for me
I don't need these lines to get laid

I'm the man of the night
A real ladies delight
See, my figure was chisEled from stone
One more for the gal then I'll escort her home
Come last call, I'm never alone
I own a house on the hill with a red water bed
It puts Hugh Hefner's mansion to shame
With girls by the pool and italian sports cars
I'm just here in this dump for the gig

Ahh, fuck it. Who am I shittin'?

I'm a pitiful SIGHT
And I ain't all that bright
I'm definitly not chisEled from stone
I'm a cheat and a liar
No womAn's desire
I'll probably die cold and alone

But just give me a chance
Cause deep down inside
I swear I got a big heart of gold
I'm a monogamous man
No more one night stands
Come on, Honey let me take you home

Anyone who quotes a Dropkick Murphys song gets an automatic "Fuck yeah!" from me.

[utastro]

I'm not a lawyer but I did stay in a Motel 6 last night so I do feel very dirty and sleazy.  Bada Bing!  By day I speak to my computer in multiple languages that no sane person would want to understand. 

[JaneDoe]

Also, I think I work across the street from Jane Doe, although I am not sure about that.

You work at ExxonMobil?

[austro]

By day I speak to my computer in multiple languages that no sane person would want to understand. 

Moi aussi.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I like to party real hard and have a good time, I eat road-kill stew, drink poison-berry wine.
I eat tainted beef and spoiled cheese, and I wash it all down with anti-freeze.
I take my baths in turpentine and I wipe my ass with a porcupine
I'm psychopathic, I'm wild and rude, I mean to tells ya, I'm one bad dude.
I got a dick of steel and nuts of brass. I'm always horny and that's the facts.
I love my women 12 at a time, when I get finished, they get back in line.

Hoy, hoy,
Baby I'm your boy
96 pounds of heavenly joy.
I'm so glad that you understand
You've got 96 pounds of muscle and man.

This is it,
This is it,
Look what you get!

When I'm not wrecking havoc on mankind, I'm splicing fiber optic cables and other mundane shit for AT&T.

[EasTexAstro]

(ETA sticks his head out in the hall): "Anyone know what my job is?"

I do whatever my boss tells me to. Seriously. I kindof handle things for a manufacturing company so that the real workers can do their job.

[gleach]

And I keep pushing my work to ETA so I don't have to do anything.

[HudsonHawk]

Kiss my grits, Zipp.

Ah, Zipp's just jealous that we don't have to stand on the seats to get hug from Uncle Drayton.

[Andyzipp]

It's difficult to go through life at ball-height.  It's good that you're well versed making lemonade from those particular lemons.

[toddthebod]

Anyone who quotes a Dropkick Murphys song gets an automatic "Fuck yeah!" from me.

best band . . . ever.

Too bad they're Red Sox fans.