Recommendation: Forego punishment....

[Noe]

Wow, I expected the MLB to say this, but for Mitchell to recommend it means that is what this whole witch hunt turns out to be.  A whole lot of nothing other than show that steroids is rampant, so do something about changing the climate MLB and MLBPA.

That is all, don't punish anyone... play ball.

You gotta believe that was already know by those making deals like the one Houston made yesterday.  No one is going to be penalized from the report.

[MusicMan]

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread ... "We must look forward, not back" is an almost comic parallel to "I'm not here to talk about the past."

[ybbodeus]

...meaning what, Noe?  That the players might have another year or so of steroid utilization while mlb and the MLPA work out the details of a new and improved testing means, then determine its approval and ratification?

[Colt 45]

We will see what Bud says later this afternoon.

[Phil_in_CS]

If they want to get serious about this, MLB should fund testing for all high school, select league, college, and minor league teams. UIL's plan would only do 3-4% of athlete's in Texas, and MLB has a couple 100 million lying around to get this done

[ybbodeus]

If they want to get serious about this, MLB should fund testing for all high school, select league, college, and minor league teams. UIL's plan would only do 3-4% of athlete's in Texas, and MLB has a couple 100 million lying around to get this done

I don't know, maybe the various levels of government plus the legal industry would have some additional input on such a plan.  I like the idea, but GOOD LORD can you imagine the battles that would ensue over implementing something that pervasive and "intrusive" ?


EDIT:  MLB would need to drag the NFL and perhaps even the NBA into it with them.....maybe even the WWF!

[Phil_in_CS]

I don't know, maybe the various levels of government plus the legal industry would have some additional input on such a plan.  I like the idea, but GOOD LORD can you imagine the battles that would ensue over implementing something that pervasive and "intrusive" ?


EDIT:  MLB would need to drag the NFL and perhaps even the NBA into it with them.....maybe even the WWF!

you'd don't have a right to play in MLB. So, you can opt out of the program if you want. you just can't play MLB if you don't participate

[cuban]

astros: clemens, pettitte, greg zaun, ron villone, chris donnells, Stephen Randolph

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/071213/mitchell_report.pdf

[MusicMan]

astros: clemens, pettitte, greg zaun, ron villone, chris donnells, Stephen Randolph

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/071213/mitchell_report.pdf

Cabrera a steroid user

[kevwun]

Jeff Bagwell's HOF candidacy just got a heck of a boost, not that I think it needed one.

[Curly]

"Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ballgame, no player that undertakes or promises to throw a ballgame, no player that sits in conference with a bunch of crooked players and gamblers where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."  Commissioner Landis

Any chance Uncle Bud doesn't follow the recommendation, and starts chopping some of the players head off?

[Rebel Jew]

Wow, I expected the MLB to say this, but for Mitchell to recommend it means that is what this whole witch hunt turns out to be.  A whole lot of nothing other than show that steroids is rampant, so do something about changing the climate MLB and MLBPA.

That is all, don't punish anyone... play ball.

You gotta believe that was already know by those making deals like the one Houston made yesterday.  No one is going to be penalized from the report.

the best punishment:  public censure.  give each person a choice of suspension or to get up in front of the public and admit their mistakes, apologize, and be forced to listen to fans, parents of youthful steroid casualties, etc. confront them about the reality of what they did.

they did the same thing in rwanda.

[Mike S]

Jeff Bagwell's HOF candidacy just got a heck of a boost, not that I think it needed one.

Amen and absolution, bud.

[ybbodeus]

you'd don't have a right to play in MLB. So, you can opt out of the program if you want. you just can't play MLB if you don't participate

The legislation and enforcement at the high school and college level would have to be ALL SPORT inclusive, less baseball risk the possibility of kid's foregoing the game for a spell.  In the long term that could be a problem for the game.  

We're just a year or so removed from the LAST congressional report on steroid use.  Perhaps with this report's coming on its heels, congress will opt to legislate a change in something stronger than its usual PASS THE BUCK fashion, all the while threatening to brandish its favorite whipping stick carrot card, the exemption issue.  (Yes, I know; a brutal mixing of metaphors)

Wonder how the NEXT press conference addresses that?  S

[geezerdonk]

they did the same thing in rwanda.

I always welcome the Rwanda refernce.
Hutus, Tutsis and Steroids: Genocide and The Infield Fly Rule

[Phil_in_CS]

The legislation and enforcement at the high school and college level would have to be ALL SPORT inclusive, less baseball risk the possibility of kid's foregoing the game for a spell.  In the long term that could be a problem for the game. 

We're just a year or so removed from the LAST congressional report on steroid use.  Perhaps with this report's coming on its heels, congress will opt to legislate a change in something stronger than its usual PASS THE BUCK fashion, all the while threatening to brandish its favorite whipping stick carrot card, the exemption issue.  (Yes, I know; a brutal mixing of metaphors)

Wonder how the NEXT press conference addresses that?  S

I'm sure you're aware, but UIL will be testing all texas athletes next year. Funding limits it to a 3-4% random sample. I'm just suggesting MLB solve the funding problem, since they are providing much of the incentive.

[ybbodeus]

I'm sure you're aware, but UIL will be testing all texas athletes next year. Funding limits it to a 3-4% random sample. I'm just suggesting MLB solve the funding problem, since they are providing much of the incentive.

Yeah, my son's not of that age, yet, but I do not oppose the testing.  I'm not sure if UIL oversight includes something like the Lutheran School/private school leagues in which he will eventually operate, so I could stand a little "learnin'" in that regard. 

Again, I'm with ya' on this; I'm just thinking about how the forces of "I'm agi'n it!" will do their worst.

[VirtualBob]

... they did the same thing in rwanda.

Now that is a strong precedent!

[jasonact]

Wow, I expected the MLB to say this, but for Mitchell to recommend it means that is what this whole witch hunt turns out to be.  A whole lot of nothing other than show that steroids is rampant, so do something about changing the climate MLB and MLBPA.

That is all, don't punish anyone... play ball.

You gotta believe that was already know by those making deals like the one Houston made yesterday.  No one is going to be penalized from the report.

Oh come on, This moved way beyond simply identifying and punishing offenders long ago. That's why it irritates me to now end how people and the media are only concerned with one thing: Names.

This is about the pervasive problem that baseball itself allowed, and I think in some cases may have even encouraged. This is about the mortaging of competition and integrity for the sake of more powerful (i.e. "attention-getting") performances of the players. Read the Mitchell report between the lines and you see that MLB and the individual clubs would have been crazy to dampen the machine once it got roaring. They saw what McGuire and Sosa did in 1998, and they weren't about to dampen that high, regardless of the cost. That, to me, is the bigger crime: not that the individuals took the steroids (because you expect certain individuals to make bad but well-meaning mistakes), but the level of complicity that the sport as a whole showed through that time.

So you want to punish people? Start by punishing the league or the owner. Are you going to take away championships? Give refunds to ticket-holders? Close up the whole damn league? Enforcing punishment at this stage of the problem would simply create new problems and REALLY turn this whole thing into a witch hunt. This is the Steroids Era for all time, and everyone is implicated. That's the greatest punishment.

[VirtualBob]

Given this ...

you'd don't have a right to play in MLB. So, you can opt out of the program if you want. you just can't play MLB if you don't participate

Would this ...

I'm sure you're aware, but UIL will be testing all texas athletes next year. Funding limits it to a 3-4% random sample. I'm just suggesting MLB solve the funding problem, since they are providing much of the incentive.

constitute some sort of recursive Cabrera moment?

[SoonerJim]

Wow, I expected the MLB to say this, but for Mitchell to recommend it means that is what this whole witch hunt turns out to be.  A whole lot of nothing other than show that steroids is rampant, so do something about changing the climate MLB and MLBPA.

That is all, don't punish anyone... play ball.

You gotta believe that was already know by those making deals like the one Houston made yesterday.  No one is going to be penalized from the report.

What mystifies me is Mitchell's plea to correct the problem and provide a sort of amnesty, after which he just publicized the names of his own steroid contact list from two NYC-based clubhouse employees. Were Mitchell still in government, and he used the same method to sully the careers of longtim and key political figures, McCartyism cries would ring down from the rafters.

My question is, was there any value in naming names? If the goal is to eradicate the problem, what wiggle room or compromise could the parties reach? And lastly, could this revelation put the owners and players on the same page?

[pravata]

What mystifies me is Mitchell's plea to correct the problem and provide a sort of amnesty, after which he just publicized the names of his own steroid contact list from two NYC-based clubhouse employees. Were Mitchell still in government, and he used the same method to sully the careers of longtim and key political figures, McCartyism cries would ring down from the rafters.

My question is, was there any value in naming names? If the goal is to eradicate the problem, what wiggle room or compromise could the parties reach? And lastly, could this revelation put the owners and players on the same page?

I think he has a streak of vindictativeness.  The MLBPA wouldn't cooperate at all.  This might be his payback.  I can't think of any other reason, maybe to show how serious the issue is?  The 85 names is the big deal here.  As soon as the report was put into people's hands and screens they went tearing through it hunting for the names.  The Naming of Names.  How could an experienced politician miss the significances of that?

[Jacksonian]

I think he has a streak of vindictativeness.  The MLBPA wouldn't cooperate at all.  This might be his payback.  I can't think of any other reason, maybe to show how serious the issue is?  The 85 names is the big deal here.  As soon as the report was put into people's hands and screens they went tearing through it hunting for the names.  The Naming of Names.  How could an experienced politician miss the significances of that?

He didn't.  At the same time if he didn't name names, who'd pay attention?

[PCOL2000]

Given this ...

Quote from: Phil_in_CS on Yesterday at 01:37:54 PM
you'd don't have a right to play in MLB. So, you can opt out of the program if you want. you just can't play MLB if you don't participate


Would this ...

Quote from: Phil_in_CS on Yesterday at 02:29:18 PM
I'm sure you're aware, but UIL will be testing all texas athletes next year. Funding limits it to a 3-4% random sample. I'm just suggesting MLB solve the funding problem, since they are providing much of the incentive.


constitute some sort of recursive Cabrera moment?





POTWA.  just spilled coffee

[pravata]

He didn't.  At the same time if he didn't name names, who'd pay attention?

He's reported NY Times to have said he did it so that the report would be credible and accurate.  This article also says that one player who found out his name was going to be in the report got a lawyer and had his name taken out. 

[ybbodeus]

Given this ...

Quote from: Phil_in_CS on Yesterday at 01:37:54 PM
you'd don't have a right to play in MLB. So, you can opt out of the program if you want. you just can't play MLB if you don't participate


Would this ...

Quote from: Phil_in_CS on Yesterday at 02:29:18 PM
I'm sure you're aware, but UIL will be testing all texas athletes next year. Funding limits it to a 3-4% random sample. I'm just suggesting MLB solve the funding problem, since they are providing much of the incentive.


constitute some sort of recursive Cabrera moment?





POTWA.  just spilled coffee

Gizzmonic and VBob have been on some sort of humor mission to destroy keyboards and monitors all over the greater OWA nation.  Their work, as well as MM's, has taught me that when thirsty, one should first look away, take the sip, swallow the beverage, then return to reading.

[Jacksonian]

He's reported NY Times to have said he did it so that the report would be credible and accurate. 

Credibility is another big one.  If he didn't name names we wouldn't know if he was referring to a bunch of Ricky Stones or guys like DQ, Alice, and Tejada.

[geezerdonk]

The Naming of Names.

I see it as supplemental to The Airing of Grievances.

[ybbodeus]

  The Naming of Names

I see it as supplemental to The Airing of Grievances.

All this because the Feats of Strength are tainted?

[homer]

He's reported NY Times to have said he did it so that the report would be credible and accurate.  This article also says that one player who found out his name was going to be in the report got a lawyer and had his name taken out. 

Might be a different player, but pg 149 of the pdf:

(After the incident but before this investigation began, a settlement agreement was reached
among the Commissioner’s Office, the major league club, and the Players Association, under
which we are not permitted to identify Player X in this report).

[Trey]

Might be a different player, but pg 149 of the pdf:

(After the incident but before this investigation began, a settlement agreement was reached
among the Commissioner’s Office, the major league club, and the Players Association, under
which we are not permitted to identify Player X in this report).

Outstanding.  We can pick whoever we don't like that didn't make the report and put them there.

I'm going with Jeter.  But I reserve the right to change it to Pujols in the future.

[homer]

Outstanding.  We can pick whoever we don't like that didn't make the report and put them there.

I'm going with Jeter.  But I reserve the right to change it to Pujols in the future.

Whoever it was, they were in the minor leagues in June of 2004 and not on a 40 man roster.

[Trey]

Whoever it was, they were in the minor leagues in June of 2004 and not on a 40 man roster.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!! I can't hear you.  Facts are irrelevant.  LA LA LA LA LA!!!