So much for pitching and defense!

[Navin R Johnson]

We replace AE with ACME ranged Tejada?   We give up our best pitching prospect?

What a disaster.   The Astros are on the hook for 13mil a year through 09 for Tejada.

So the left side of the field is Wiggy, Tejada and Lee.   Is Ed Wade building a slow pitch softball lineup?

[MusicMan]

So the left side of the field is Wiggy, Tejada and Lee. 

On the plus side:
1.  They're covering a 315' wall.
2.  Tejada's HGH will help when recovering from Lee collisions.

[Navin R Johnson]

2.  Tejada's HGH will help when recovering from Lee collisions.

Zing!

I dont get the letting AE go for nothing, or the letting him go period.   Why not move Tejada to 3rd and let AE stay at SS?

[MRaup]

Zing!

I dont get the letting AE go for nothing, or the letting him go period.   Why not move Tejada to 3rd and let AE stay at SS?

I would assume its because AE is not healthy still.

[Limey]

I would assume its because AE is not healthy still.

And because Miggy wants to continue to play SS.  He probably doesn't waive the no-trade without assurances from the Astros.

[MusicMan]

And because Miggy wants to continue to play SS.  He probably doesn't waive the no-trade without assurances from the Astros.

He didn't have a no-trade.

[jaklewein]

I would assume its because AE is not healthy still.

I'm assuming the same....because it's either that or I throw up.

Adam...You will be missed.  

[JackAstro]

And because Miggy wants to continue to play SS.  He probably doesn't waive the no-trade without assurances from the Astros.

I don't want to call him Miggy. Vitamin T, I can get behind. TeHGHada, sure.

I kid. I'm sure he's squeaky clean.

[Limey]

TeHGHada

With a capital phlegm!  Brilliant!

[Limey]

He didn't have a no-trade.

Says you and the "internet".

[MusicMan]

TeHGHada, sure.

To the glossary.  And the Stubing.  Immediately.

[Gizzmonic]

I don't want to call him Miggy. Vitamin T, I can get behind. TeHGHada, sure.

I kid. I'm sure he's squeaky clean.

I hope he's bringing the juice with him.  He's gonna need it to make this trade seem remotely worthwhile.

[BizidyDizidy]

I hope he's bringing the juice with him.  He's gonna need it to make this trade seem remotely worthwhile.

Especially now that we don't have kingpin bagwell to dole it out.

[Trey]

What a disaster.   The Astros are on the hook for 13mil a year through 09 for Tejada.

You do realize that 09 is the season after next?  It may be a lot of money (debatable), but there ain't that much time left on it.

ETA: grammar, conjugation sort of

[kevwun]

If you replace Wiggington with Tejada in order to keep Everett, you really haven't accomplished much in terms of offense.  Unless he has a huge bounce back year, Tejada isn't a significantly better hitter than Ty.  If you keep Wigginton and replace Everett with Tejada, you make a huge improvement in offense.  Defense suffers, but that doesn't matter if Everett can't perform at his previous level anymore.  Non-tendering him and making this deal is a pretty solid hint that that is the case.

[Limey]

If you replace Wiggington with Tejada in order to keep Everett, you really haven't accomplished much in terms of offense.  Unless he has a huge bounce back year, Tejada isn't a significantly better hitter than Ty.  If you keep Wigginton and replace Everett with Tejada, you make a huge improvement in offense.  Defense suffers, but that doesn't matter if Everett can't perform at his previous level anymore.  Non-tendering him and making this deal is a pretty solid hint that that is the case.

Right.  AE's physical status is the other shoe that I suspect is hurtling earthwards as we speak.

[Bench]

You do realize that 09 is the season after next?  It may be a lot of money (debatable), but there ain't that much time left on it.

I realized it at once, but still haven't figured out if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

[DVauthrin]

We replace AE with ACME ranged Tejada?   We give up our best pitching prospect?

What a disaster.   The Astros are on the hook for 13mil a year through 09 for Tejada.

So the left side of the field is Wiggy, Tejada and Lee.   Is Ed Wade building a slow pitch softball lineup?

It's not a disaster.    The new lineup will score runs like crazy, and you still have solid defense at 2b, CF, C.   3 of the 4 cornerstones of a rock solid D.   It's not your money so I wouldn't worry about tejada's contract.     As far as patton, he wasn't an elite pitching prospect, but he will be missed.

I'll be interested to see how they address SP/RP next.

[Limey]

It's not a disaster.    The new lineup will score runs like crazy, and you still have solid defense at 2b, CF, C.   3 of the 4 cornerstones of a rock solid D.   It's not your money so I wouldn't worry about tejada's contract.     As far as patton, he wasn't an elite pitching prospect, but he will be missed.

I'll be interested to see how they address SP next.

Money isn't a primary concern because they sloughed off so much actual and deferred salary this year.

[DVauthrin]

Money isn't a primary concern because they sloughed off so much actual and deferred salary this year.

True, i'm just saying regardless it's up to mcclane how he spends his dinero.

[jaklewein]

It's not a disaster.    The new lineup will score runs like crazy, and you still have solid defense at 2b, CF, C.   3 of the 4 cornerstones of a rock solid D.   It's not your money so I wouldn't worry about tejada's contract.     As far as patton, he wasn't an elite pitching prospect, but he will be missed.

I'll be interested to see how they address SP/RP next.

Not much in the way of SPs left...my money is on the Astros spending some money on a LH relief pitcher...say Mahay or Affeldt (sp?).  With a damn good offense now in hand, a solid bullpen would do wonders for a subpar starting rotation.

[TheWizard]

It's not your money so I wouldn't worry about tejada's contract.

Clearly its not our money, but when you are spending millions on a SS when your team needs pitching, and because of the aforementioned spending, you cannot afford to sign pitching.. its going to upset people.

[DVauthrin]

Clearly its not our money, but when you are spending millions on a SS when your team needs pitching, and because of the aforementioned spending, you cannot afford to sign pitching.. its going to upset people.

Again, look at the FA market for pitchers.   Tell me who you would like to allocate tejada's salary towards?  colon? jennings? garcia? lieber?  david wells?  armas jr? livan? silva? lohse?  odalis perez? steve trachsel?  That is the SP free agent market.

[MusicMan]

Again, look at the FA market for pitchers.   Tell me who you would like to allocate tejada's salary towards?  colon? jennings? garcia? lieber?  david wells?  armas jr? livan? silva? lohse?  odalis perez? steve trachsel?  That is the SP free agent market.

The next person to say "Clemens" or "Rocket" or any variation thereof... the consequences will be severe.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Again, look at the FA market for pitchers.   Tell me who you would like to allocate tejada's salary towards?  colon? jennings? garcia? lieber?  david wells?  armas jr? livan? silva? lohse?  odalis perez? steve trachsel?  That is the SP free agent market.

Well, since you asked, Colon may be worth a gamble.  But again, there are enough teams desparate for pitching that none of those guys will sign for a "make good" contract or one anywhere near their actual value outside this FA market.

[DVauthrin]

Well, since you asked, Colon may be worth a gamble.  But again, there are enough teams desparate for pitching that none of those guys will sign for a "make good" contract or one anywhere near their actual value outside this FA market.

He may be, but point is tejada is a way better bet than any of those FA arms.  I think some of them like jennings will get a deal similar to randy wolf's 4 mil one yr deal with SD.

[MusicMan]

Well, since you asked, Colon may be worth a gamble. 

35 years old, fat, and 1 sub-5.00 season in the last 4?

Pass.

[Limey]

Well, since you asked, Colon may be worth a gamble.  But again, there are enough teams desparate for pitching that none of those guys will sign for a "make good" contract or one anywhere near their actual value outside this FA market.

Which is the most extreme ground-ball pitcher?  That should be where the search starts.

[DVauthrin]

Which is the most extreme ground-ball pitcher?  That should be where the search starts.

of those with at least 40 innings pitched:

jamey wright: 2.31
wells: 1.62
silva:  1.57
lieber: 1.52
lopez: 1.32
david wells: 1.28
colon: 1.16
trachsel: 1.1
garcia: 1.02
livan: .99
lohse: .95
armas: .9
jennings: .81

[MusicMan]

Put me down as favoring Silva.

[matadorph]

With this lineup and his ability to chew through the IPs, I'd be happy with Livan Hernandez.

[TheWizard]

Again, look at the FA market for pitchers.   Tell me who you would like to allocate tejada's salary towards?  colon? jennings? garcia? lieber?  david wells?  armas jr? livan? silva? lohse?  odalis perez? steve trachsel?  That is the SP free agent market.

Tejada wasn't a FA signing.  So you'd have to include almost any pitcher on the block in your options on who I'd rather spend the money on.

[MikeyBoy]

Put me down as favoring Silva.

Pay dat hman heez moony!

[DVauthrin]

Tejada wasn't a FA signing.  So you'd have to include almost any pitcher on the block in your options on who I'd rather spend the money on.

Um, do you really not think wade tried to get a number 2 starter first with this package?  Come on now.   He didn't get the kind of guy he wanted so he took the big bat instead.

[TheWizard]

Um, do you really not think wade tried to get a number 2 starter first with this package?  Come on now.   He didn't get the kind of guy he wanted so he took the big bat instead.

I never said he didn't try to get a #2, who knows what he tried to get with that package.  What did happen is he is spending millions of dollars on Miguel Tejada's mediocre bat.  And not on SP, which the team STILL needs, regardless of whether he tried to trade for it previously or not.  Its still not in Houston.

[DVauthrin]

I never said he didn't try to get a #2, who knows what he tried to get with that package.  What did happen is he is spending millions of dollars on Miguel Tejada's mediocre bat.  And not on SP, which the team STILL needs, regardless of whether he tried to trade for it previously or not.  Its still not in Houston.

I don't think tejada's bat is mediocre which is why i'm fine with using marginal assets to get him.

[JackAstro]

Put me down as favoring Silva.

Yup.

[Froback]

Put me down as favoring Silva.

While I agree, I think most every other GM looking for SP also agrees, which means he is gonna cost ya.

[MusicMan]

While I agree, I think most every other GM looking for SP also agrees, which means he is gonna cost ya.

He costs me nothing.  Let Drayton do his Christmas shopping and then go get him.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Does the choice of avoiding the FA Pitching market still exist given the nature of today's trade?  I don't mean as an absolute.  But in light of the long term impact of the trade, not going after a pitcher now seems like leaving the job half done while having negatively impacted the team's future. 

[Froback]

He costs me nothing.  Let Drayton do his Christmas shopping and then go get him.

Well it costs more in ticket prices.. but then they go up even when payroll goes down...

But I hope you understand the point, what would be your response if they signed him to 5 years and $70 Mil or so.  Not my money, but that would seem to be something people around here might cringe at.

[Navin R Johnson]

I don't think tejada's bat is mediocre which is why i'm fine with using marginal assets to get him.

He is not mediocre, but he isnt great either.   I am not so worried about the pieces the Astros gave up as I am to what is left.     

As for me "worrying" about how Drayton spends his money...

If Drayton had an unlimited budget, I wouldnt be worried about how he spends his money.   But clearly this team has some salary constraints.   Spending 14 million on a bad fielding SS, when the Astros desperately need pitching, isnt the best idea, imo.

This not only affects the Astros ability to acquire a pitcher this season, but at the trade deadline and next season too.  They now have less tradeable assets, and less money to spend.

If MT hits 35 homers and drives in 100+ then the trade doesnt look too bad, I have my doubts whether he is that kind of a hitter any longer though.   

[DVauthrin]

He is not mediocre, but he isnt great either.   I am not so worried about the pieces the Astros gave up as I am to what is left.     

As for me "worrying" about how Drayton spends his money...

If Drayton had an unlimited budget, I wouldnt be worried about how he spends his money.   But clearly this team has some salary constraints.   Spending 14 million on a bad fielding SS, when the Astros desperately need pitching, isnt the best idea, imo.

This not only affects the Astros ability to acquire a pitcher this season, but at the trade deadline and next season too.  They now have less tradeable assets, and less money to spend.

If MT hits 35 homers and drives in 100+ then the trade doesnt look too bad, I have my doubts whether he is that kind of a hitter any longer though.   

Tejada is still a well above average hitter.  35 bombs is pushing it, but 20-25 is reasonable.  A .300 avg, 20-25 hrs, 90-100 rbi is what i'd expect.  And I see your point on the money, but I don't think this package would have brought back the pitcher they wanted now, or a yr from now, unless a lot of guys involved drastically developed.   If they thought it would, this deal never gets made.  Or that they expect to get that number 2 starter from the 2009 FA class.   Consider the padres offered the astros fringe prospects for the best major league asset(scott) in this deal.

[Burzmali]

I liked Everett at short and batting at the bottom, but this trade was almost made necessary by the earlier moves of subbing out Scott for Bourn, and signing Matsui. Now the team has a decent shot at success this year.

[TheWizard]

Tejada is still a well above average hitter.  35 bombs is pushing it, but 20-25 is reasonable.  A .300 avg, 20-25 hrs, 90-100 rbi is what i'd expect.  And I see your point on the money, but I don't think this package would have brought back the pitcher they wanted now, or a yr from now, unless a lot of guys involved drastically developed.   If they thought it would, this deal never gets made.  Or that they expect to get that number 2 starter from the 2009 FA class.   Consider the padres offered the astros fringe prospects for the best major league asset(scott) in this deal.

Tejada hitting .300, 20-25 HR, with 90-100 RBI is not worth his salary.  With the way he plays SS, I hope he produces better than that with the money he is owed.  Bottom line is we are spending a whole lot of money at a position where several people just did not think we needed to spend a whole lot of money.  We don't have a bottomless pot of gold for a payroll, which is why some of us are "worrying" about the way Drayton's money is being spent.  If AE is physically unable to actually play, then that is another issue.  Pitching is where most people would like to have seen the money spent, but obviously WadeSmith and/or McLane have their own vision, which is fine.  Let's play it out.

Edit:  The offseason isn't over, so, let's see what pans out.

[MusicMan]

I liked Everett at short and batting at the bottom, but this trade was almost made necessary by the earlier moves of subbing out Scott for Bourn, and signing Matsui. Now the team has a decent shot at success this year.

This seems like there should be some logic to it, but I'm not following it.

[Navin R Johnson]

Now the team has a decent shot at success this year, offensively.

FIFY

[Bench]

This seems like there should be some logic to it, but I'm not following it.

Sigh. Don't you remember? Having Bourn instead of Scott in the outfield made the team dramatically worse. Now, having Tejada instead of Everett remedies that. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.

[DVauthrin]

Tejada hitting .300, 20-25 HR, with 90-100 RBI is not worth his salary.  With the way he plays SS, I hope he produces better than that with the money he is owed.  Bottom line is we are spending a whole lot of money at a position where several people just did not think we needed to spend a whole lot of money.  We don't have a bottomless pot of gold for a payroll, which is why some of us are "worrying" about the way Drayton's money is being spent.  If AE is physically unable to actually play, then that is another issue.  Pitching is where most people would like to have seen the money spent, but obviously WadeSmith and/or McLane have their own vision, which is fine.  Let's play it out.

Edit:  The offseason isn't over, so, let's see what pans out.

If he bats 3rd bump up the RBI totals to 110-120 in this offense.    I'd take that from him in a heartbeat and be happy, but he also doesn't need to try to perform up to his salary to make him a very useful player.

[MusicMan]

Sigh. Don't you remember? Having Bourn instead of Scott in the outfield made the team dramatically worse. Now, having Tejada instead of Everett remedies that. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.

I think I can be forgiven for suppressing that entire thread.

[Froback]

Tejada is not (no matter what people think about him) a power hitter.  He is an RBI type guy, like Carlos Lee, he might hit 30 HRs, but that is probably around the max you should reasonably expect out of him.  What you should be hoping for is around .310 BA and 110+ RBIs.  If you look at his career, he has always produced lots of RBIs, but not a ton of HRs like you might expect.

[Noe]

Sigh. Don't you remember? Having Bourn instead of Scott in the outfield made the team dramatically worse. Now, having Tejada instead of Everett remedies that. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.

Yet it ignores what just happened to Pence and moving allllll the waaaaaay down to #6.  And Wiggington at #7 hitting behind him.

It remains to be seen what happens to Good Will Hunter, but right now some things in this move to #6 for Pency is cause for concern... offensively

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Tejada is not (no matter what people think about him) a power hitter.  He is an RBI type guy, like Carlos Lee, he might hit 30 HRs, but that is probably around the max you should reasonably expect out of him.  What you should be hoping for is around .310 BA and 110+ RBIs.  If you look at his career, he has always produced lots of RBIs, but not a ton of HRs like you might expect.

If we just got a Carlos Lee clone at the plate, I just might change my personal opinion on this deal.  That idea... WOW... I sure hope you are correct. 

[Noe]

Tejada is not (no matter what people think about him) a power hitter.  He is an RBI type guy, like Carlos Lee, he might hit 30 HRs, but that is probably around the max you should reasonably expect out of him.  What you should be hoping for is around .310 BA and 110+ RBIs.  If you look at his career, he has always produced lots of RBIs, but not a ton of HRs like you might expect.

Way ahead of you.  Tejada hitting third may not be etched in stone as some may think.  I would think Cooper has plenty of time to align this lineup correctly and help out his prized young player (Pence) with all these fine players hitting around him.  I'm not sold that Miguel hitting third is the best option of all what may be.

[DVauthrin]

If we just got a Carlos Lee clone at the plate, I just might change my personal opinion on this deal.  That idea... WOW... I sure hope you are correct. 

Tejada is a line drive hitter/solid contact guy.   strikeout numbers:  65 in 03, 73 in 04, 83 in 05, 79 in 06 and every yr he played 162 games.   In 07 he had 55 strikeouts in 133 games.

He also averages way more ground balls to fly balls hit:  http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5888

[Froback]

Way ahead of you.  Tejada hitting third may not be etched in stone as some may think.  I would think Cooper has plenty of time to align this lineup correctly and help out his prized young player (Pence) with all these fine players hitting around him.  I'm not sold that Miguel hitting third is the best option of all what may be.

Me neither, but with Tejada being very much like Lee as far as hitters go (at least last year was an anomoly), it is hard to fit 2 #5 hitters and a #4 hitter and Pence into the 3-5 spots... someone gets bumped.  Unless you move Pence to the #2 spot as some have indicated, but then Tejada or Berkman bats 3rd and the other 4/5.  Otherwise if you move Pence to #3, you are probably looking at Pence/Berkman/Lee/Tejada as your 3-6, and if you do that, what impact would that do to Tejada?

Actually in the Lee and Tejada comparison, I think Lee is the better hitter, but I used Lee as the example because both drive in tons of RBIs with relatively less HRs than say a Berkman type.  Berkman seems to be more the ideal 4 hitter because of his power and lack of base-running skills.  If he had the later he is probably the best 3 hitter.  Pence is so agressive, you would ideallly like him infront of those other mashers and not behind, but again, you either put him in the 2 spot, or move one of the big contract mashers to the 6 spot, which sometimes messes with their ego.

[TheWizard]

Way ahead of you.  Tejada hitting third may not be etched in stone as some may think.  I would think Cooper has plenty of time to align this lineup correctly and help out his prized young player (Pence) with all these fine players hitting around him.  I'm not sold that Miguel hitting third is the best option of all what may be.

Where else do you see Tejada potentially batting in the order?  Do you believe the overall lineup would look better with Pence at #3, and Tejada at #6?  Or just something completely different?  I'd also like to see Pence batting somewhere in the lineup where he'll see better pitches thanks to who is behind him.

[Froback]

Where else do you see Tejada potentially batting in the order?  Do you believe the overall lineup would look better with Pence at #3, and Tejada at #6?  Or just something completely different?  I'd also like to see Pence batting somewhere in the lineup that will get him to see better pitches.

If you are going to put anyone in the 6 spot other than Pence, I think Lee might be the best bet, but then, i am not sure how well any of the veterans would take moving to that spot.  Might be best to put Pence in the 2 spot than move one of them to the 6 spot.  IMO.

[DVauthrin]

Way ahead of you.  Tejada hitting third may not be etched in stone as some may think.  I would think Cooper has plenty of time to align this lineup correctly and help out his prized young player (Pence) with all these fine players hitting around him.  I'm not sold that Miguel hitting third is the best option of all what may be.

I'm thinking bourn-matsui-lee-berkman-pence-tejada-wigginton-towles might be a distinct possibility.   You protect hunter with tejada, who can handle teams working around him to get to ty.   or you bat pence 2nd, tejada 5th, wigginton 6th, matsui 7th or 8th.

[Noe]

Otherwise if you move Pence to #3, you are probably looking at Pence/Berkman/Lee/Tejada as your 3-6, and if you do that, what impact would that do to Tejada?

Makes his comeback a little less strained to begin with and gives him a chance to hit behind Lee and in front of Wiggington, two good power bats sandwiched between a line drive hitter.  I'm not sold that Miguel is automatically #3 in Coopers mind, just that right now it's the place to put him in a pencilled in lineup... and a huge eraser.

Time to split the thread and talk about this more later.

[VirtualBob]

I missed to much of this during an actual work day to quote everything, but here are a few random thoughts anyway.

1.  If we are looking for ground ball pitchers, let's make sure they induce balls to the right side of the infield.

2.  In terms of batting order (and in the interest of salvaging at least one of speed, pitching & defense) I hope they put TeHGHAda 6th and go with the top five we have debated extensively elsewhere.

3.  Who the hell is going to play 3B at Round Rock?  Chris Burke???

4.  I'd bet on a 2009 infield of TeHGHada at 3B & Manzella at SS.

5.  Does this mean that Cruise2 has a good chance of making the team as 5th OF???

6.  With Albers & Patton both gone, what does that do to depth at SP?  Is it a "good thing" (unblocking for Sampson, Gutierrez, Paulino) or a "bad thing" (more or less requiring the aforementioned to deliver??

7.  In general, i hate this trade ... Probably something I should take a pill (or a six pack) for and I'll be better in the morning.

[Noe]

tejada, who can handle teams working around him to get to ty....

Eggszactly why I think Tejada moving down makes sense and not Pence.  He's a veteran, strike out rates are really low and he can really handle the bat well enough in this stacked lineup to make Wiggington even a better hitter at #7 than hitting behind Pence.

I'm thinking it's not a foregone conclusion that Tejada hits third and Pence gets booted down at all.

[Navin R Johnson]

Bourn, Pence, MT, Berkman, Lee, Ty, KAZ and Catcher.

Put the middle three anyway you want.   I want those top 6 getting as many AB's a game as possible, I dont want Kaz taking away plate appearances from Berkman/Lee.   imo.

The order is pretty similar to the stellar 04 lineup, although Bourn is a somewhat unknown at this point.   

[Noe]

Bourn, Pence, MT, Berkman, Lee, Ty, KAZ and Catcher.

Put the middle three anyway you want.   I want those top 6 getting as many AB's a game as possible, I dont want Kaz taking away plate appearances from Berkman/Lee.   imo.

The order is pretty similar to the stellar 04 lineup, although Bourn is a somewhat unknown at this point.   

I would tend to agree if Bourn is hovering around .330 in OBP.  You cannot afford Matsui at the #2 at that point because the chances are against you that he'll be putting up an OBP that is any better.  But if Bourn is doing a clip of around .360 or better OBP, yowsa... Matsui needs to stay at #2 to make the running game between him and Bourn work for the rest of the lineup, plus his ability with bat control.  At that point, Lee-Berkman-Pence-Tejada-Wiggington are even more dangerous hitters.

Matsui won't take that many PA away if Bourn and he play the one-two punch well.  They'll be on-base enough to give the others all the PA they need and then some.

[Burzmali]

I would tend to agree if Bourn is hovering around .330 in OBP.  You cannot afford Matsui at the #2 at that point because the chances are against you that he'll be putting up an OBP that is any better.  But if Bourn is doing a clip of around .360 or better OBP, yowsa... Matsui needs to stay at #2 to make the running game between him and Bourn work for the rest of the lineup, plus his ability with bat control.  At that point, Lee-Berkman-Pence-Tejada-Wiggington are even more dangerous hitters.

Matsui won't take that many PA away if Bourn and he play the one-two punch well.  They'll be on-base enough to give the others all the PA they need and then some.

I'm salivating over the possibility of Loretta playing if Matsui stumbles hard. An Astros lineup with only the pitcher's spot as a definite black hole (hopefully Towles steps up) would be amazing after the pitcher/ausmus/everett/biggio years.

[Reuben]

I missed to much of this during an actual work day to quote everything, but here are a few random thoughts anyway.

1.  If we are looking for ground ball pitchers, let's make sure they induce balls to the right side of the infield.

2.  In terms of batting order (and in the interest of salvaging at least one of speed, pitching & defense) I hope they put TeHGHAda 6th and go with the top five we have debated extensively elsewhere.

3.  Who the hell is going to play 3B at Round Rock?  Chris Burke???

4.  I'd bet on a 2009 infield of TeHGHada at 3B & Manzella at SS.

5.  Does this mean that Cruise2 has a good chance of making the team as 5th OF???

6.  With Albers & Patton both gone, what does that do to depth at SP?  Is it a "good thing" (unblocking for Sampson, Gutierrez, Paulino) or a "bad thing" (more or less requiring the aforementioned to deliver??

7.  In general, i hate this trade ... Probably something I should take a pill (or a six pack) for and I'll be better in the morning.

I wonder if they're now considering Burke as 4th or 5th OF? Since it doesn't look like they'll get anything for trading him. He does have experience at all 3 spots. Am I talking crazy?

[MusicMan]

I wonder if they're now considering Burke as 4th or 5th OF? Since it doesn't look like they'll get anything for trading him. He does have experience at all 3 spots. Am I talking crazy?

Yes.  Burke as a 4th OF doesn't make sense in any scenario - even video games.

[Limey]

Yes.  Burke as a 4th OF doesn't make sense in any scenario - even video games.

And he doesn't make sense as a utility infielder when he can play only one infield position with anything resembling competence, on a team that sports a Loretta on the bench.

[Bench]

And he doesn't make sense as a utility infielder when he can play only one infield position with anything resembling competence, on a team that sports a Loretta on the bench.

And a Blum.

[pravata]

And a Blum.

How the hell did Ed Wade get rid of 6 players and not one of them was Chris Burke? 

[BizidyDizidy]

How the hell did Ed Wade get rid of 6 players and not one of them was Chris Burke? 

Would you take him?

[MusicMan]

How the hell did Ed Wade get rid of 6 players and not one of them was Chris Burke? 

Because not even Peter Angelos is that dumb.

[pravata]

Would you take him?

Me? No.  I already have a half border collie half beagle that plays 2nd and a little short in my back yard.

[DVauthrin]

Me? No.  I already have a half border collie half beagle that plays 2nd and a little short in my back yard.

so you have a dog that won't stop playing and won't shut up?   I feel for you.   

[VirtualBob]

I wonder if they're now considering Burke as 4th or 5th OF? Since it doesn't look like they'll get anything for trading him. He does have experience at all 3 spots. Am I talking crazy?

Yes. Crazy.  But probably on the money.  Of course "considering" does not mean they will end up doing it.

[VirtualBob]

And he doesn't make sense as a utility infielder when he can play only one infield position with anything resembling competence, on a team that sports a Loretta on the bench.

Which infield position is that?

[Limey]

How the hell did Ed Wade get rid of 6 players and not one of them was Chris Burke? 

Unfortunately, unlike Lane who understood what passing through waivers meant, Burke will likely consider his continued presence on the Astros 40-man as a validation of his worth.

[Jacksonian]

Unfortunately, unlike Lane who understood what passing through waivers meant, Burke will likely consider his continued presence on the Astros 40-man as a validation of his worth.

I expect him to be designated for assignment.

[Lurch]

Me? No.  I already have a half border collie half beagle that plays 2nd and a little short in my back yard.

Rover.

[Andyzipp]

Yes. Crazy.  But probably on the money.  Of course "considering" does not mean they will end up doing it.

I'd go with "Unconditional Release" or "Designated for Assignment" before I'd believe 4th/5th Outfielder for CB.  The last person who had faith in Burke was fired last August.

[DVauthrin]

Rover.

or in other words the adam everett of dogs.

[pravata]

so you have a dog that won't stop playing and won't shut up?   I feel for you.   

Lot of chatter in the infield.

[DVauthrin]

Lot of chatter in the infield.

you should introduce him/her to lance berkman or sean casey, they'd get along great.

[Reuben]

I'd go with "Unconditional Release" or "Designated for Assignment" before I'd believe 4th/5th Outfielder for CB.  The last person who had faith in Burke was fired last August.

I'm not saying I think it's a great idea or anything. I just think back to those starts he kept getting in RF late in the season and wonder if they're considering it. I mean, Abercrombie and Cruz Jr. are both far superior OF defenders, I'm sure, but can you really say for certain that they're both better hitters than Burke? Abercrombie could be, and he might be faster too, but I'm not so sure about Cruz at this point in his career.

By the way, why would they DFA Burke when they've only got 35 names on the 40-man?

[Andyzipp]

I'm not saying I think it's a great idea or anything. I just think back to those starts he kept getting in RF late in the season and wonder if they're considering it. I mean, Abercrombie and Cruz Jr. are both far superior OF defenders, I'm sure, but can you really say for certain that they're both better hitters than Burke? Abercrombie could be, and he might be faster too, but I'm not so sure about Cruz at this point in his career.

By the way, why would they DFA Burke when they've only got 35 names on the 40-man?

I'm not saying they'd DFA today or even before spring training...but he won't break camp with them, short of an injury.

[Froback]

If Burke truely is done with this club as far as a future is concerned and his trade value is nil, then the club has two choices, dump him or somehow find time for him to play everyday to increase his value (if possible).

If he isn't going to play everyday at the ML level to make that attempt (mostly because the team can't afford to have him play that much and still try to win), then they are left with AAA or releasing.  As I see it, that is where the Astros and Burke are at.  If it is THAT obvious to me, it SHOULD be obvious to Burke, but I am betting he still complains when they send him to AAA after ST.

[Reuben]

If Burke truely is done with this club as far as a future is concerned and his trade value is nil, then the club has two choices, dump him or somehow find time for him to play everyday to increase his value (if possible).

If he isn't going to play everyday at the ML level to make that attempt (mostly because the team can't afford to have him play that much and still try to win), then they are left with AAA or releasing.  As I see it, that is where the Astros and Burke are at.  If it is THAT obvious to me, it SHOULD be obvious to Burke, but I am betting he still complains when they send him to AAA after ST.

or.... "we'll throw in Gutierrez if you take Burke." Problem solved!