Josh Anderson traded to the Braves

[I'm Richies Dad]

For RHP Oscar Villarreal. Per Rotoworld

[Tralfaz]

Wow, here we ago again.  Seems pretty solid.  Stengthens the bullpen.  Josh, we hardly knew ya,  All the best! 

Also aquired Yordany Ramirez, who Astros new brass are very high on.

[pravata]

also signed an outfielder Yordany Ramirez,

Says WadeSmith,

"...with the additions of Michael Bourn and Yordany Ramirez, along with our earlier waiver claim of Reggie Abercrombie, we had the outfield depth to make this move."

"Yordany Ramirez ranks as one of the top defensive outfielders at the higher minor league levels, and we think that he will continue to make significant progress with the bat.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2301963&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Noe]

also signed an outfielder Yordany Ramirez,

Says WadeSmith,

"...with the additions of Michael Bourn and Yordany Ramirez, along with our earlier waiver claim of Reggie Abercrombie, we had the outfield depth to make this move."

"Yordany Ramirez ranks as one of the top defensive outfielders at the higher minor league levels, and we think that he will continue to make significant progress with the bat.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2301963&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

The Astros tried to acquire Oscar Villareal several times a couple of years ago from Arizona.  Oh, and it's looking more and more like Abercrombie is a real candidate for a job on this team.  Especially if a trade of Luke Scott is in the horizon sometime.

BTW - the Astros are higher on Josh Flores than they were on Josh Anderson, so that helps make this deal as well.

[Bench]

also signed an outfielder Yordany Ramirez,

Says WadeSmith,

"...with the additions of Michael Bourn and Yordany Ramirez, along with our earlier waiver claim of Reggie Abercrombie, we had the outfield depth to make this move."

"Yordany Ramirez ranks as one of the top defensive outfielders at the higher minor league levels, and we think that he will continue to make significant progress with the bat.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2301963&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Yordany even has some youtube-worthy catches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpLIOOg4xro

[Tralfaz]

Baseball America's 2007 Best Tools Survey has Ramirez as the best defensive outfielder and best outfield arm in the San Diego organization?  

The Houston radio callers hate him already.

Sounds great to me.

[pravata]

The Braves haven't announced it yet, but here's a hint from their new GM, on their hunt for an interim CF,

"In the trade possibilities that we have right now, one guy, I don't know if I'd classify him as a veteran, but he's been around for a few years at the Major League level," Wren said. "Another one is young player who doesn't have a lot of Major League time but has some Major League time."
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071115&content_id=2301252&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

In the past, we wouldn't have heard a peep out of Schuerholz.

(eta: there they go http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2301958&vkey=pr_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl )

[Bench]

The Braves haven't announced it yet, but here's a hint from their new GM, on their hunt for an interim CF,

"In the trade possibilities that we have right now, one guy, I don't know if I'd classify him as a veteran, but he's been around for a few years at the Major League level," Wren said. "Another one is young player who doesn't have a lot of Major League time but has some Major League time."
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071115&content_id=2301252&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

In the past, we wouldn't have heard a peep out of Schuerholz.

Who do you think the first one is. Crisp?

[SaltyParker]

At age 23 and a well regarded prospect, did San Diego just leave Ramirez unprotected?
It seems unusual that he would be unprotected.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

At age 23 and a well regarded prospect, did San Diego just leave Ramirez unprotected?
It seems unusual that he would be unprotected.

Shit happens.  See also: Loftin, Kenny.

[pravata]

Who do you think the first one is. Crisp?

I suck at that kind of guessing.  I checked the Atl paper and they say this

"Braves are looking for a guy to be the bridge from Andruw Jones to Jordan Schafer, who could be ready by midseason, ...

they’re going to probably get their man on the trade market, most likely a younger player with some CF experience, a low salary and no long-term commitment. That commitment part (and the salary matter) would seem to rule out Coco Crisp, who’s signed for $4.75 million next season and $5.75 million in 2009, with a team option for $8 million in 2010."

as for Anderson,

"...this guy will compete for the job, and I’d guess he would be the favorite unless the Braves get another center fielder this winter."

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2007/11/16/waiting_for_gla.html

[DVauthrin]

I like the vision wade has so far this offseason.  This is a solid trade, unless you think anderson can really be a full time major league centerfielder.

[JimR]

the first person who says "they should have gotten more for Anderson" should get banned for life plus 30 years.

[pravata]

I like the vision wade has so far this offseason.  This is a solid trade, unless you think anderson can really be a full time major league centerfielder.

makes me wonder why the Braves did the trade if they have this Schafer guy.

[VirtualBob]

the first person who says "they should have gotten more for Anderson" should get banned for life plus 30 years.

Amen to that!!  I love this trade.  Based on what I saw of Anderson in RR, his MLB stats were well above what was (and probably should still be) expected.  He is fast, but that's about it.  If he played SS as well as Everett, his bat would be fine, but for an outfielder, even a plus defender, I doubt he will ever really hold down an every day position in the show.

[DVauthrin]

makes me wonder why the Braves did the trade if they have this Schafer guy.

from everything i've read, their top outfield prospects are a few years away so they just want to plug that hole in the meantime.  Plus, their ownership always wants to cut payroll and needs room to sign teixeira to an extension after this season.

[Amy]

makes me wonder why the Braves did the trade if they have this Schafer guy.

Seems like a good deal.  Is Villarreal due a raise that the Braves might not have wanted to pay?

[Jacksonian]

the first person who says "they should have gotten more for Anderson" should get banned for life plus 30 years.

I was thinking SmithWade just stole a quality reliever for a 5th outfielder.

[Noe]

At age 23 and a well regarded prospect, did San Diego just leave Ramirez unprotected?
It seems unusual that he would be unprotected.

Because he was in A ball?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I enjoyed watching Anderson, but unlike Towles, he did strike me as a guy who got hot at just the right time.  I don't know that much about Flores, but if the trade rule is "give up only what you can easily replace" then we made out quite nicely here.

[pravata]

I was thinking SmithWade just stole a quality reliever for a 5th outfielder.

here's what Rotoworld thinks

Still, he's a perfectly adequate middle man and a big upgrade from Doug Brocail and some of the others used by Houston last season.
Link

um.

[pravata]

from everything i've read, their top outfield prospects are a few years away so they just want to plug that hole in the meantime.  Plus, their ownership always wants to cut payroll and needs room to sign teixeira to an extension after this season.

Braves have money
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/11/14/bravesbiz_1115.html

[Bench]

Seems like a good deal.  Is Villarreal due a raise that the Braves might not have wanted to pay?

He settled for just under $1 million during last year's round of arbitration, so I assume he'll get over the million mark this year.

Doesn't Wade have a reputation for being an obsessive bullpen tinkerer?

[SaltyParker]

Because he was in A ball?

Looks to me like he hit .315 in AAA late 07 and currently .344 in winter ball.
Very alert pickup however it came about.

[pravata]

He settled for just under $1 million during last year's round of arbitration, so I assume he'll get over the million mark this year.

Doesn't Wade have a reputation for being an obsessive bullpen tinkerer?

That's one of the snarky remarks I read all the time.  Of course, so was Hunsicker, so is every GM if they know anything.

[Jacksonian]

I enjoyed watching Anderson, but unlike Towles, he did strike me as a guy who got hot at just the right time.  I don't know that much about Flores, but if the trade rule is "give up only what you can easily replace" then we made out quite nicely here.

The Astros essentially replaced Anderson with a guy 2 years younger with a similar skill set at the same price and added a quality reliever.

[Bench]

That's one of the snarky remarks I read all the time.  Of course, so was Hunsicker, so is every GM if they know anything.

I was told Keith Law parrotted it in his chat yesterday. I guess people don't notice how most middle relievers somehow never end up with multi-year contracts.

[VirtualBob]

Because he was in A ball?

He's interesting statwise.  Almost three full seasons in Rookie ball starting at age 17.  He's never appeared in much more than half his team's games in any of his six years in organized ball.  2005 (104 games w/ A-ball Fort Wayne) and 2007 (82 games w/ Hi-A Lake Elsinore plus another 30 at AAA Portland) are his high-water marks.

In terms of batting, he was in his 3rd season before he got safely past second base on a batted ball.  He hits a lot of doubles (1 every 16-18 AB's over the past three years) but still not much power beyond that.  (I expect the 4 HR's in 127 AAA AB's is an aberation, not a trend.)  Combining that with ~20 SB's per year with almost an 80% success rate indicates good speed.   His K:BB rate is about 5:1 over his career, although he improved to 4:1 last year.  

All in all, he looks like a younger version of Josh Anderson.  I imagine they will send him to CC to start the season (with Flores at RR??) and see how well he can develop.

[Jacksonian]

All in all, he looks like a younger version of Josh Anderson.  

I agree.

I imagine they will send him to CC to start the season (with Flores at RR??) and see how well he can develop.

Flores isn't ready for AAA.  It will probably be Ramirez in RR and Flores returning to CC.

[Noe]

Looks to me like he hit .315 in AAA late 07 and currently .344 in winter ball.
Very alert pickup however it came about.

Agree on the pickup, it's how you make your hay as a minor league scout and evaluator, however he played 30 games in AAA, his season was primarily A ball.  A 23 year old with those skills in A ball tells me the Padres have a pretty healthy depth chart of outfielders in the minors.

He was allowed to walk instead of being put on the 40 man for the Padres.  Houston offered a major league roster spot, so that's why he signed here.

[SaltyParker]

Agree on the pickup, it's how you make your hay as a minor league scout and evaluator, however he played 30 games in AAA, his season was primarily A ball.  A 23 year old with those skills in A ball tells me the Padres have a pretty healthy depth chart of outfielders in the minors.

He was allowed to walk instead of being put on the 40 man for the Padres.  Houston offered a major league roster spot, so that's why he signed here.

That's what I am looking for here. Can I sign any non-roster minor league player from another organization at anytime if I put him on my 40 man? Are there any restrictions?

[Noe]

That's what I am looking for here. Can I sign any non-roster minor league player from another organization at anytime if I put him on my 40 man? Are there any restrictions?

The Bus Ride guys can answer better than me, but I understand that the rule is now six years as a minor leaguer and no 40 man protection makes one a free agent.   On the surface, it looked as if the Padres gambled that Ramirez would find no one interested in a A ball 23 year old so they left him off the 40 man.

Apparently, having Felix Francisco here and also that Ed Wade was a scout for the Padres last season with Francisco helped the Astros approach and then land Ramirez.  Francisco was the guy who signed Ramirez at a young age.

[littlevisigoth]

Agree on the pickup, it's how you make your hay as a minor league scout and evaluator, however he played 30 games in AAA, his season was primarily A ball.  A 23 year old with those skills in A ball tells me the Padres have a pretty healthy depth chart of outfielders in the minors.

He was allowed to walk instead of being put on the 40 man for the Padres.  Houston offered a major league roster spot, so that's why he signed here.

Ramirez had been a pro for six years, so he was a free agent, capable of signing wherever he wanted.  It's not a matter of the Padres not wanting him, not protecting him, or whatever.  We may have just offered him a better deal.

Question is, what if he doesn't make the major league roster?  Will he have to clear waivers?  I'm not pretending to know all the rules, but I do know he was on this list.

[SaltyParker]

Thanks, didn't realize he was a six year vet.

[DVauthrin]

The Bus Ride guys can answer better than me, but I understand that the rule is now six years as a minor leaguer and no 40 man protection makes one a free agent.   On the surface, it looked as if the Padres gambled that Ramirez would find no one interested in a A ball 23 year old so they left him off the 40 man.

Apparently, having Felix Francisco here and also that Ed Wade was a scout for the Padres last season with Francisco helped the Astros approach and then land Ramirez.  Francisco was the guy who signed Ramirez at a young age.

basically the rule is the same as a real MLB player, except for the 40 man part.   Six years of service for both.

[Noe]

Ramirez had been a pro for six years, so he was a free agent, capable of signing wherever he wanted.  It's not a matter of the Padres not wanting him, not protecting him, or whatever.  We may have just offered him a better deal.

Question is, what if he doesn't make the major league roster?  Will he have to clear waivers?  I'm not pretending to know all the rules, but I do know he was on this list.

As long as he's on the 40 man roster and has options he can be sent down this year without clearing waivers.  If he is taken off the 40 man roster, he automatically becomes a free agent because of six year status.  Ramirez would be a free agent again after the 2008 season because he's on a one year contract.  It's just going to work that way for Ramirez from now on unless he lands a major league job and a multi-year contract.

[Jose Cruz III]

Ramirez had been a pro for six years, so he was a free agent, capable of signing wherever he wanted.  It's not a matter of the Padres not wanting him, not protecting him, or whatever.  We may have just offered him a better deal.

Question is, what if he doesn't make the major league roster?  Will he have to clear waivers?  I'm not pretending to know all the rules, but I do know he was on this list.

A couple of names on this list were a blast from the past. I didn't realize Mike Gallo and Chris Truby were still around.

[I'm Richies Dad]

I thought I read somewhere that Truby retired from baseball.

[DVauthrin]

Braves have money
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/11/14/bravesbiz_1115.html

then this is a change from the past few years.    They have progressively been reducing payroll since AOL took them over.

[Duman]

then this is a change from the past few years.    They have progressively been reducing payroll since AOL took them over.

AOL/TW sold braves to liberty media this spring.  There's a new checkbook in town.

[mihoba]

So we traded a hot cup of coffee from a position of depth for a solid bullpen guy? Thumbs are up here.

[Reuben]

So we traded a hot cup of coffee from a position of depth for a solid bullpen guy? Thumbs are up here.

Yes, I'm using Wikipedia as a source here, but looks like Villareal, after a great rookie year in 2003, had elbow surgery in 2004, and spent about 5 months on the DL in 2005 with a strained rotator cuff. The LinkHe bounced back from those problems to go 9-1 with a 3.61 ERA, 1.30 WHIP in 2006, then 2-2, 4.24 ERA, 1.40 WHIP this year, throwing a combined 168 2/3 innings (The Link). Sounds like a pretty reliable middle reliever to me, and he's only 26, so who knows, he could easily approach his 2003 form if he's healthy.

[DVauthrin]

AOL/TW sold braves to liberty media this spring.  There's a new checkbook in town.

that explains the shift in philosophy.

[Mr. Happy]

So we traded a hot cup of coffee from a position of depth for a solid bullpen guy? Thumbs are up here.

Agreed wholehearedly. Well said, and succinct to boot. I like all of the off-season moves thusfar. What I like more than anything else is that every move seems to be calculated to help us in 2008 and beyond, as opposed to a pure future rebuilding effort.

[strosrays]

From the ajc

"Braves general manager Frank Wren said the 25-year-old rookie, a prototypical leadoff hitter, would provide insurance in case they can't acquire a more experienced center fielder this winter. But he made it clear the Braves were still looking and that Anderson wasn't assured of the job.'


Of course, Anderson is not a prototypical leadoff hitter.  I doubt the Braves think so, either.

If they do think that is what they are getting, well. . .

[juliogotay]

Agreed wholehearedly. Well said, and succinct to boot. I like all of the off-season moves thusfar. What I like more than anything else is that every move seems to be calculated to help us in 2008 and beyond, as opposed to a pure future rebuilding effort.

Beyond 2008? Not so sure about that. I believe Villareal is in his walk year. I suspect he's seen as a stop-gap for '08.

[Arky Vaughan]

the first person who says "they should have gotten more for Anderson" should get banned for life plus 30 years.

It's clear that they should have at least gotten a No. 2 starter for Anderson. This offseason is already going to hell.

[cougar]

It's clear that they should have at least gotten a No. 2 starter for Anderson. This offseason is already going to hell.

OMG BAD PLZ!!ELEVENTY!

[NeilT]

It's clear that they should have at least gotten a No. 2 starter for Anderson. This offseason is already going to hell.

Bullshit.  Last time we traded an Andersen, look what we got.  We should have gotten a Bagwell-quality prospect.

[VirtualBob]

Bullshit.  Last time we traded an Andersen, look what we got.  We should have gotten a Bagwell-quality prospect.

15 yard penalty for failing to engage your sarcasm detection unit.

[Bench]

15 yard penalty for failing to engage your sarcasm detection unit.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

[VirtualBob]

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

Probably because I screwed up and replied to the wrong post.  I meant the one where ...

Oh nevermind.  Timing is way off by now.

[Arky Vaughan]

15 yard penalty for failing to engage your sarcasm detection unit.

You might want to have your SDU checked.

ETA: I should've read further.