Non-Astros BB: little league related

[94CougarGrad]

I have two left-handed boys, both of whom love to play baseball. The 9-year-old is a true lefty who futzes around with hitting righty in the batting cages to blow off steam. The 6-year-old throws lefty, bats much more comfortably righty. The younger one's still in coach-pitch, so even though he loves to play catcher and pitcher like all the other little kids do, he's just happy to play.

The older one looooves playing catcher. When he's given a shot at it, he's quite good. He's caught some stealing, he's tagged some out at home, he knows when NOT to try to throw someone out, he keeps his eye on the field and communicates with his teammates. His fielding skills improve dramatically every fall ball season because so far, he's had coaches who've been willing to let him be catcher, and when you handle the ball as much as a pee wee catcher does, you can't help but improve.

I have been told by his coach from this past spring that once kids get up to the minors (first year in kid-pitch), no coach will use lefties for catchers because it confuses the pitchers. Lefty catchers hold their catchers' mitts in different places than righty catchers do, and coaches like consistency for their young pitchers' targets.

I can appreciate wanting consistency, but I've got a kid who's dying to be a catcher. He was so disheartened by hearing his past coach tell me the kid wouldn't be used as a catcher that he's decided he's going to practice and become the best catcher he can be, whether he gets put at that position or not. He works on his throws, he pays attention when he watches games, he... well, he just works hard, dang it. He wants to play ball in high school, and then in college, and he wants to do it behind the plate, and his parents didn't put that idea into his head.

I'm not a mom who pushes her kids to be sports overachievers. My son wants to be a catcher, so that's what I want for him. If he changed his mind and wanted to pursue something else, I'd support him, no problem.

I've just never heard this "he won't ever be used as a catcher because he's a lefty" stuff before and wanted to know what anyone else thought about it. I'm of the opinion that if a kid can play the position well, it shouldn't friggin' matter whether he's left-handed or right-handed.

[JimR]

he has no future as a catcher unless he is SO great that his HS coach lets him play where he wants. nothing wrong with catching for now, but he should learn another position too. he'll be moved eventually.

[Limey]

I haven't got a clue about the technical stuff, but it's bullshit that the coaches won't let a good catcher play catcher because his pitchers get confused by the arm sticking out of the mitt.  Surely a lefty catcher puts the mitt in the same place, i.e. where he wants the pitch to go?

However, aren't lefty catchers frowned on because of the issue of throwing down to 2nd with a right-handed hitter in the way?  Please feel free to call me F.O.S.

[Duman]

Here is an article that lays out the reasons why there are hardly any lefty catchers. 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/top-10-left-handed-catchers-for-2006/

Some things in there I had never thought of before.

[NeilT]

I have two left-handed boys, both of whom love to play baseball. The 9-year-old is a true lefty who futzes around with hitting righty in the batting cages to blow off steam. The 6-year-old throws lefty, bats much more comfortably righty. The younger one's still in coach-pitch, so even though he loves to play catcher and pitcher like all the other little kids do, he's just happy to play.

The older one looooves playing catcher. When he's given a shot at it, he's quite good. He's caught some stealing, he's tagged some out at home, he knows when NOT to try to throw someone out, he keeps his eye on the field and communicates with his teammates. His fielding skills improve dramatically every fall ball season because so far, he's had coaches who've been willing to let him be catcher, and when you handle the ball as much as a pee wee catcher does, you can't help but improve.

I have been told by his coach from this past spring that once kids get up to the minors (first year in kid-pitch), no coach will use lefties for catchers because it confuses the pitchers. Lefty catchers hold their catchers' mitts in different places than righty catchers do, and coaches like consistency for their young pitchers' targets.

I can appreciate wanting consistency, but I've got a kid who's dying to be a catcher. He was so disheartened by hearing his past coach tell me the kid wouldn't be used as a catcher that he's decided he's going to practice and become the best catcher he can be, whether he gets put at that position or not. He works on his throws, he pays attention when he watches games, he... well, he just works hard, dang it. He wants to play ball in high school, and then in college, and he wants to do it behind the plate, and his parents didn't put that idea into his head.

I'm not a mom who pushes her kids to be sports overachievers. My son wants to be a catcher, so that's what I want for him. If he changed his mind and wanted to pursue something else, I'd support him, no problem.

I've just never heard this "he won't ever be used as a catcher because he's a lefty" stuff before and wanted to know what anyone else thought about it. I'm of the opinion that if a kid can play the position well, it shouldn't friggin' matter whether he's left-handed or right-handed.

My left-handed kid played catcher one season.  He really hated it, but the coach wanted him to, and he's been taught never to argue with the coach.  Bill James has a great essay on why no left-handers end up catching in the last Abstract (as I recall), and he suspects it's mostly ingrained prejudice.  Bottom line, though, was because any left handed kid who can make the throw from home to second is going to end up pitching.

I also recall, oddly, that one of the early catchers in the HOF was left-handed, and the last left-handed catcher in the majors was the 50s.  There's probably no reason your kid can't catch in little league if he's got the skills, but it probably depends on the luck of the draw with the coach, and how many catchers are drafted.

[94CougarGrad]

he has no future as a catcher unless he is SO great that his HS coach lets him play where he wants. nothing wrong with catching for now, but he should learn another position too. he'll be moved eventually.

If he's not catching, he's in the outfield. He hustles, catches pop flies, and makes the cutoff man when he needs to.

[Noe]

My left-handed kid played catcher one season.  He really hated it, but the coach wanted him to, and he's been taught never to argue with the coach.  Bill James has a great essay on why no left-handers end up catching in the last Abstract (as I recall), and he suspects it's mostly ingrained prejudice.  Bottom line, though, was because any left handed kid who can make the throw from home to second is going to end up pitching.

I also recall, oddly, that one of the early catchers in the HOF was left-handed, and the last left-handed catcher in the majors was the 50s.  There's probably no reason your kid can't catch in little league if he's got the skills, but it probably depends on the luck of the draw with the coach, and how many catchers are drafted.

I threw to one left handed catcher and he was the best one I ever had as a batterymate.  What he did best is recieve the ball.  It's an art than any good catcher must do.  Not just catch a thrown ball, but actually softly recieve the pitch and frame it correctly.  The guy was amazingly good and I learned from him how to do that.

[Limey]

If he's not catching, he's in the outfield. He hustles, catches pop flies, and makes the cutoff man when he needs to.

Read the article Duman posted.  Make him a pitcher!!!!

[mihoba]

The infamous Jiggs Donahue caught 23 games as a lefty in 1902 before moving to 1B, the last ML player to appear as a lefty catcher. One hundred and five years ago.

ETA: I suck, just read the link above.

[Duman]

The infamous Jiggs Donahue caught 23 games as a lefty in 1902 before moving to 1B, the last ML player to appear as a lefty catcher. One hundred and five years ago.

From the Article I linked earlier:

the three modern players to have done it are Dale Long (two games in 1958), Mark Squires (two games in 1980) and the most recent lefty-throwing catcher Benny Distefano, who caught three games in 1989.

[NeilT]

From the Article I linked earlier:

Great article.  I remembered Long, but not the later 2.

[mihoba]

My search was at least 50% of games appeared as a lefty catcher. Oops.

[94CougarGrad]

Read the article Duman posted.  Make him a pitcher!!!!

I did read it... interesting article, and some of the stuff I don't know that I'd have thought of, either.

I don't care WHAT position he plays as long as he's happy doing it. He hasn't really shown an interest in pitching yet, but I know his fall ball coach, and he trained his older son (who is a lefty) to pitch. I think my son is the only other lefty on his fall ball team, so I'm sure he'll get a taste of pitching at some point very soon. First practice is Friday night, so it may be sooner than I know...

[EasTexAstro]

I threw to one left handed catcher and he was the best one I ever had as a batterymate.  What he did best is recieve the ball.  It's an art than any good catcher must do.  Not just catch a thrown ball, but actually softly recieve the pitch and frame it correctly.  The guy was amazingly good and I learned from him how to do that.

One of the best Little League battery teams I have ever seen were identical twins, only one threw LH and one RH (They both hit left).

They were limited to 3 IP per game, so half way through the game they would switch. It could catch you off gaurd sometimes.

[HudsonHawk]

Speaking as someone who has caught since he was 8 years old...there will be prejudices, but if the kid wants to catch, no reason he can't catch in LL.  This deal that he'll confuse "young pitchers in the 'minors'" is total bullshit.  How old can these kids possibly be?  8?  9?  If he gets to high school, he'll probably have a hard time being allowed to catch, but it's not impossible.  I've known several LH catchers.  So encourage him to do what he wants, but also encourage him to learn other positions.  He may find other things he likes better, and versatility is always a good thing. 

[Outlawscotty]

Mmmmmmm....Fall Ball.


Fuckin' bastard lazy fucks cancelled my son's.

[strosrays]

Speaking as someone who has caught since he was 8 years old...there will be prejudices, but if the kid wants to catch, no reason he can't catch in LL.  This deal that he'll confuse "young pitchers in the 'minors'" is total bullshit.  How old can these kids possibly be?  8?  9?  If he gets to high school, he'll probably have a hard time being allowed to catch, but it's not impossible.  I've known several LH catchers.  So encourage him to do what he wants, but also encourage him to learn other positions.  He may find other things he likes better, and versatility is always a good thing. 

I had a left-handed SS for two years.  Best arm on the team, but he was pretty wild off the mound.  But extremely accurate from short.  Fortunately, he was good at backhand plays.  The DP pivot at second was odd looking, though; sorta like the water going down the toilet backwards in down in Bora Bora.

[phil]

1.  Vince Sinisi caught lefty all through LL.  Apparently, he was pretty good at it.

2.  JimR has a little monograph around here somewhere on teaching a kid to pitch.  It's invaluable.  I never pitched a day in my life, but I was able to use it to coach kids in LL how to pitch quite successfully.  Got invited to be the pitching coach on two all-star teams, in fact, along with several of my pitchers, including a lefty.  I don't say this to boast, but to illustrate just how effective Jim's methods are, and how clear his presentation is.

Now, some wise man is sure to tell you to leave the coaching to those who know what they're doing.  That's great, if your LL has any of those.  Mine really didn't - not enough of them, anyway -which is how I got dragooned into it in the first place.  But that was the best investment of time I ever made.

ETA:  If you have trouble finding lefty catcher's mitts, Dugout Sports in the Woodlands specializes in left-handed equipment.

[94CougarGrad]

Speaking as someone who has caught since he was 8 years old...there will be prejudices, but if the kid wants to catch, no reason he can't catch in LL.  This deal that he'll confuse "young pitchers in the 'minors'" is total bullshit.  How old can these kids possibly be?  8?  9?  If he gets to high school, he'll probably have a hard time being allowed to catch, but it's not impossible.  I've known several LH catchers.  So encourage him to do what he wants, but also encourage him to learn other positions.  He may find other things he likes better, and versatility is always a good thing. 

My son will be 10 in October and has been playing since he was 6, both spring and fall ball every year. He has played all over the field but is better in the outfield, I think, than in the infield. His arm is strong, but it's just not quite quick enough for some of the throws infielders have to make. He isn't nervous of pop flies or line drives, and he always knows where the play is and where the cut-off man is. He's not a superstar, but he's a good player to have on your team because his skills are reasonably good, he's a hard worker, he gets steadily better, and he's got a good attitude.

A friend of mine who's on the little league board with me, and who's assisted with coaching both of my sons, says if the kid wants to catch, he'd encourage it because it's a good skill to have. He says my boy probably won't be looked to as a catcher initially because he's a lefty, but since not everybody can be a catcher, if he gets good at it he's at least an option.

He saw me reading the article linked above and wanted to read it with me. He didn't get all of it (mostly the math), but the part where the author comments that any kid who's a lefty and has throwing skills is usually turned into a pitcher got his attention. "Well, I could pitch, mom, but I mostly throw balls." (Honey, that's what pitching coaches are for- to show you how to pitch.) "Wow, Coach Chris might show me how to pitch, huh? That would be pretty cool."

This fall, we only had enough kids sign up to make about 2 Major and 3 Minor teams. We've combined all those kids together, ages 9 1/2-12, since it's more laid-back and instructional in the fall. The rest of the board thinks it'll be great to have 5 teams playing each other instead of a couple of teams playing each other all the time. Me, I'm curious to see how the younger kids improve over the fall while they're mixed in with the older kids.

[HudsonHawk]

This fall, we only had enough kids sign up to make about 2 Major and 3 Minor teams. We've combined all those kids together, ages 9 1/2-12, since it's more laid-back and instructional in the fall. The rest of the board thinks it'll be great to have 5 teams playing each other instead of a couple of teams playing each other all the time. Me, I'm curious to see how the younger kids improve over the fall while they're mixed in with the older kids.

We had "winter league" when I was younger, though it was done in the fall.  And it was pretty much instructional too.  I remember one year, the fall between 12 and 13 (actually, I had just turned 12 a month before) when I went from Little League to Senior League, which meant the shift to 90-ft bases, 60-ft mound, 400-ft fences, the whole bit.  My dad coached a bunch of us in the same boat, trying to get us ready for the big shift.  He had to teach us how to lead off, how to pitch from a stretch, the real value of cut off men...you know, real baseball.  I didn't realize it at the time, but we learned more about baseball that fall than probably any time before or since.  A few years later, that core of 6 or 8 kids was the core of the local high school team.

Speaking of LL...I was told recently that the age deadline had recently been moved from August 1st to May 1st.  Bravo, though it was way too late to help me.  My Bday is July 28, so I was always the youngest kid in my age group.  When I played in the Little League World Series tournament as a "12-year old", I was 11.  Now, most of those kids are 13.  Sometimes when I see the LLWS and some of these kids, I think "wow, that kid's good" or "wow that kid has an arm"...until I remember that they are a year and a half older than I was at that level and when I was their age, I was already in my second year of Senior League playing on a full-sized diamond with high school players.

[NeilT]

We had "winter league" when I was younger, though it was done in the fall.  And it was pretty much instructional too.  I remember one year, the fall between 12 and 13 (actually, I had just turned 12 a month before) when I went from Little League to Senior League, which meant the shift to 90-ft bases, 60-ft mound, 400-ft fences, the whole bit.  My dad coached a bunch of us in the same boat, trying to get us ready for the big shift.  He had to teach us how to lead off, how to pitch from a stretch, the real value of cut off men...you know, real baseball.  I didn't realize it at the time, but we learned more about baseball that fall than probably any time before or since.  A few years later, that core of 6 or 8 kids was the core of the local high school team.

Speaking of LL...I was told recently that the age deadline had recently been moved from August 1st to May 1st.  Bravo, though it was way too late to help me.  My Bday is July 28, so I was always the youngest kid in my age group.  When I played in the Little League World Series tournament as a "12-year old", I was 11.  Now, most of those kids are 13.  Sometimes when I see the LLWS and some of these kids, I think "wow, that kid's good" or "wow that kid has an arm"...until I remember that they are a year and a half older than I was at that level and when I was their age, I was already in my second year of Senior League playing on a full-sized diamond with high school players.

I guess that means that overbearing parents will have to have sex in September instead of waiting until Christmas.

[HudsonHawk]

I guess that means that overbearing parents will have to have sex in September instead of waiting until Christmas.

I'm still pissed at my parents for having sex on Halloween 1966.

[Astroholic]

I'm still pissed at my parents for having sex on Halloween 1966.

Sex?  My parents never had Sex!

[ybbodeus]

Sex?  My parents never had Sex!

with each other or at all?

[94CougarGrad]

I guess that means that overbearing parents will have to have sex in September instead of waiting until Christmas.

Not necessarily. If you don't make the birthday deadline, you can always try out to "play up". One of my friends has a kid whose birthday is June 19th. He tried out to play up at Pee Wee when he was 7-turning-8, and now that he's 9-will be-10, he'll try out to play at Minors in the spring.

The birthday change seems to be a good thing, even though it doesn't affect either of mine (born in Oct and Feb).

[Duman]

Our league doesn't allow any play ups for any reason.  That's okay with me.

[NeilT]

But then how can he dominate?  

Actually, my kid was born in August.  It was always kindofa stupid joke that really little league savvy parents had their kids after the August 1 cutoff, while the worst thing was to have a kid on July 28.  At least I always thought it was a joke.

The reason for the change was to let kids in the same class at school play together.  

[94CougarGrad]

Our league doesn't allow any play ups for any reason.  That's okay with me.

We only allow a few playups. The kids who want to play up have to try out at their regular division and the one in which they want to play up. The coaches get together and approve all the playups, and they've been really good so far about not allowing someone to play up who just doesn't have the skills.

I know one mom whose son was born on May 1st. She never had him play up because he wasn't interested in it, and she just wasn't in a hurry to push him unnecessarily. She feels like it's been a good decision because he's having fun. So he's 10 and will be entering Minors now with my son, even though he could've already been in it this past spring.

[HudsonHawk]

But then how can he dominate?  

Actually, my kid was born in August.  It was always kindofa stupid joke that really little league savvy parents had their kids after the August 1 cutoff, while the worst thing was to have a kid on July 28.  At least I always thought it was a joke.

The reason for the change was to let kids in the same class at school play together.  

The reason for the change was so that a kid's "Little League age" would be his actual age, rather than being "11 playing as a 12 year old".  Basically if you are 12 or will turn 12 during the season, you will be 12 in terms of LL age.  That was the goal before, but August 1st was an unrealistic date.  May 1st is much better.  It ain't perfect, but it's better than August. 

[NeilT]

The reason for the change was so that a kid's "Little League age" would be his actual age, rather than being "11 playing as a 12 year old".  Basically if you are 12 or will turn 12 during the season, you will be 12 in terms of LL age.  That was the goal before, but August 1st was an unrealistic date.  May 1st is much better.  It ain't perfect, but it's better than August. 

They lied to me!  They always lie to me!  Those voices in my head!