my email to a friend today

[JimR]

My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.

[PCOL2000]

I feel your pain. 

who was passing out altoids to get rid of the throw-up taste?  One of the retarted comments i read in one of the retarted articles was calling for Bidge and bags to jump into the GM and skipper spot.  WTF is up with that?

[The Spleen]

a corporate, marketing entity

Marketing as in selling stuff?
They won't sell shit if the team doesn't win...

[pravata]

Drayton Mclane has turned into a two bit George Steinbrenner.

[JimR]

Drayton Mclane has turned into a two bit George Steinbrenner.

two bits is overpaying.

[The Spleen]

Drayton Mclane has turned into a two bit George Steinbrenner.

More like Colonel Kurtz...

[HurricaneDavid]

Well said Jim.

Today marks the first time I've thought about bailing on this franchise.  Sad.

[pravata]

Well said Jim.

Today marks the first time I've thought about bailing on this franchise.  Sad.

Ditto.  Thinking about changing NYCU to "News You Can Avoid Until Somebody Buys the Astros".  NYCAUSBA.

[MusicMan]

Ditto.  Thinking about changing NYCU to "News You Can Avoid Until Somebody Buys the Astros".  NYCAUSBA.

"Feces flung by Drayton"?

[Ty in Tampa]

I try to never get too high or too low about my teams but this is pretty low.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I thought I was being a drama queen (no, not on the level of THE DQ) but I feel a bit better reading that I'm not the only one disappointed by this action. 

[Jacksonian]

So, what are we going to do about it?

[Ty in Tampa]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Petition. That'll get their attention.

[Astroholic]

Petition. That'll get their attention.

How can we Booo them in public?  That will get there attention.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Stop buying tickets, merchandise, and anything else that channels money directly from myself to McLane.  I'll still watch because I pay for cable for other reasons but I'm not going to any games anytime soon.

[PenceMania]

My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

[Astroholic]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

Here we go.  Duck!

[Jacksonian]

Petition. That'll get their attention.

Hey, if McLane listens to sports talk then I may start sending Pallilo messages daily about McLane needing to sell and firing Gardner and the gist of the Stark article...  If Drayton responds to that crap then why not?

[The Spleen]

I remember having an odd thought during the jersey retirement game, that Bagwell and Biggio were the Ghosts of Christmas Past while the team on the other side of the field... the Pirates... were the Ghosts of Christmas Future...

[MusicMan]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

Kiss my ass.  The history of the Houston Astros predates 1998.

[pravata]

I thought I was being a drama queen (no, not on the level of THE DQ) but I feel a bit better reading that I'm not the only one disappointed by this action. 

No this is bad.  Very bad.  The firings are one thing.  Can't fire 25 guys is the saying and Biggio pointed out that they let Garner down.  So, in baseball, these things happen.  Another game tomorrow.  BUT.  The reasons that were given are ludicrous.  That is what is going to make this team unwatchable.  For years to come if they don't snap out of it.  The bullshit about wandering around the stands listening to the opinions of the fans is not how you run a team.  Not one fan knows anything about running a baseball team.  And 40,000 fans just increases that ignorance exponentially.  Drayton Mclane would never do this to any of his other businesses.  It would be like firing a regional manager because a convienence store clerk complained about a delivery.  It's amateurish.

[HurricaneDavid]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

What's interesting is that this sort of post MAY have gone over well "back in the day."

I don't think it will today, though.

[Astroholic]

What's interesting is that this sort of post MAY have gone over well "back in the day."

I don't think it will today, though.

What day?

[Jacksonian]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

You registered minutes before posting this.  You are a troll.  I wouldn't be surprised if you are someone who's been banned from here before.  Or Pam Gardner, who should be banned.  Either way I'm sure Spack will remove you, again.

[The Spleen]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Call in to the talk shows and explain how you could do his job better?
This time you'd even be right...

[pravata]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

You've picked a bad time and a bad way to make your first post.  This is not about the firings.  Firings happen, although the way this one was done has reporters flipping through their records to find an instance when the GM and Manager were fired at the same time.  This is amateur hour at a time when the team needs someone who knows what they are doing.  If the team makes decisions just to appease the fans, that is what will ruin this team.  Gerry Hunsicker gave a crap what the fans thought and was willing to tell them so.  Tim Purpura said several times, this is not fantasy baseball.   Unfortunately, the owner of this team thinks marketing is baseball.

[Limey]

The bullshit about wandering around the stands listening to the opinions of the fans is not how you run a team.  Not one fan knows anything about running a baseball team.  And 40,000 fans just increases that ignorance exponentially.  Drayton Mclane would never do this to any of his other businesses.  It would be like firing a regional manager because a convienence store clerk complained about a delivery.  It's amateurish.

That would be like running WalMart by walking the aisles and acting on what the shoppers said.

[JGrave]

Would you, pravata, Jacksonian, Noe, any of you feel differently if this happened at the end of the year?  Is it the 131 games in thing or would it have mattered?

[pravata]

What's interesting is that this sort of post MAY have gone over well "back in the day."

I don't think it will today, though.

Different day.

[Kevin]

My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.

Well put.

[jbm]

Since I am not privy to any inside sources on Gardner's role, I'll just assume for the purposes of this post that her influence has increased and Drayton is making decisions based on both her input and public opinion.

If this is so, it can only be temporary, because at the heart of fan bitching is wins and losses.  Drayton may lose sight of this and be presently making decisions on fan input, but in a couple of years, if the losses are piling up, he will either replay yesterday's actions or step back and realize that his core concern is wins, and that the best way to get wins is to let baseball decisions be made by baseball people.  In short, Drayton might be temporarily insane, but ultimately, he is a businessman, and he will realize that less Drayton and Gardner means more wins and more money for Drayton.  I don't think the franchise is at the edge of long-term demise.

[PenceMania]

You registered minutes before posting this.  You are a troll.  I wouldn't be surprised if you are someone who's been banned from here before.  Or Pam Gardner, who should be banned.  Either way I'm sure Spack will remove you, again.

I am an astros fan sir.  do not call me a troll because I am not sipping tea at your pity party - and most of all do not insult my favorite baseball team.

[pravata]

Would you, pravata, Jacksonian, Noe, any of you feel differently if this happened at the end of the year?  Is it the 131 games in thing or would it have mattered?

I don't object to the firings.  The timing is odd.  Ausmus says that Garner in no way "lost the team".  It's the philosophy that Mclane stated which I think is headed for disaster.

[Taras Bulba]

No this is bad.  Very bad.  The firings are one thing.  Can't fire 25 guys is the saying and Biggio pointed out that they let Garner down.  So, in baseball, these things happen.  Another game tomorrow.  BUT.  The reasons that were given are ludicrous.  That is what is going to make this team unwatchable.  For years to come if they don't snap out of it.  The bullshit about wandering around the stands listening to the opinions of the fans is not how you run a team.  Not one fan knows anything about running a baseball team.  And 40,000 fans just increases that ignorance exponentially.  Drayton Mclane would never do this to any of his other businesses.  It would be like firing a regional manager because a convienence store clerk complained about a delivery.  It's amateurish.

I'm not convinced that McLane's actions are knee jerk or driven by fan or media sentiment.  If they are, shame on him.  I'm inclined to think there's much to his decision that is not apparent to anyone outside of the organization.

[Phil_in_CS]

You registered minutes before posting this.  You are a troll.  I wouldn't be surprised if you are someone who's been banned from here before.  Or Pam Gardner, who should be banned.  Either way I'm sure Spack will remove you, again.

Be curious what IP it was posted from... registered to the Astros?

Alkie said months ago that he thought the team would be sold this off season. Clearing the decks for the new owner?

[Limey]

I'm not convinced that McLane's actions are knee jerk or driven by fan or media sentiment.  If they are, shame on him.  I'm inclined to think there's much to his decision that is not apparent to anyone outside of the organization.

He said he factored fan sentiment and local media commentary into his decision.

[pravata]

That would be like running WalMart by walking the aisles and acting on what the shoppers said.

No, that would work.  Racing to the lowest common denominator is a tried and true marketing ploy for certain demographics.

[Jacksonian]

Would you, pravata, Jacksonian, Noe, any of you feel differently if this happened at the end of the year?  Is it the 131 games in thing or would it have mattered?

Pravata said it well. It's not that they were fired.  It's the reasons given.  Whether it happened now or at the end of the year the reasons given would be the same.

I see no reason, given that Drayton has said fan input weighs into his decisions, that I don't submit my resume for GM.

[Limey]

No, that would work.  Racing to the lowest common denominator is a tried and true marketing ploy for certain demographics.

It also gets you toothpaste made out of antifreeze and toys painted with lead.

[MusicMan]

I'm not convinced that McLane's actions are knee jerk or driven by fan or media sentiment.  If they are, shame on him.  

From the astros.com article:

"This was two years in the process," McLane said. "I've observed things, watched things, talked to literally hundreds of people as I go through. I went through the stands yesterday, and every game. I ask people, 'What do you think?' It's amazing what people will tell you. It's the impact others had on me, over a period of time."

[pravata]

I'm not convinced that McLane's actions are knee jerk or driven by fan or media sentiment.  If they are, shame on him.  I'm inclined to think there's much to his decision that is not apparent to anyone outside of the organization.

I hope so.  But, given the state of local reporting, we'll probably never know.  Mclane snapped at Footer for asking this very question. 

[Jacksonian]

I am an astros fan sir.  do not call me a troll because I am not sipping tea at your pity party - and most of all do not insult my favorite baseball team.

Troll.

[JGrave]

Pravata said it well. It's not that they were fired.  It's the reasons given.  Whether it happened now or at the end of the year the reasons given would be the same.

I see no reason, given that Drayton has said fan input weighs into his decisions, that I don't submit my resume for GM.

McLane was just on with Justice and he cited other GMs who haven't had a problem signing draft picks for slotted money.  

I think there is more to this than we know.

[HurricaneDavid]

I see no reason, given that Drayton has said fan input weighs into his decisions, that I don't submit my resume for GM.

You want that job?

[The Spleen]

If the team makes decisions just to appease the fans, that is what will ruin this team.

They're not even appeasing the fans as a whole... just the most dysfunctional subset thereof... the obsessive compulsive wannabe Yankee fans and the talk radio drool cup crowd...

[strosrays]

I am an astros fan sir. . . and most of all do not insult my favorite baseball team.

Or. . . what?

[pravata]

It also gets you toothpaste made out of antifreeze and toys painted with lead.

Dead pets and poisonous spinach.  But, it's all at low, low prices.

[pravata]

They're not even appeasing the fans as a whole... just the most dysfunctional subset thereof... the obsessive compulsive wannabe Yankee fans and the talk radio drool cup crowd...

Absolutely right.  I would like to be appeased too.

[Jacksonian]

You want that job?

Fuck yeah!  I'd post here everything I heard and did.  It might be the shortest tenure of any GM in history, but fuck yeah!

[pravata]

McLane was just on with Justice and he cited other GMs who haven't had a problem signing draft picks for slotted money.  

I think there is more to this than we know.

He doesn't understand that 3rd picks were asking for 1st slot money?

[MusicMan]

and most of all do not insult my favorite baseball team.

Sorry, you were clearly misdirected to www.irrationalastroshaterswhosleptwithyourmomma.com ; nobody here actually considers the Astros their favorite baseball team.

[Limey]

Fuck yeah!  I'd post here everything I heard and did.  It might be the shortest tenure of any GM in history, but fuck yeah!

It would be worth it just to get to look at the old emails.

[JGrave]

He doesn't understand that 3rd picks were asking for 1st slot money?

I don't know.

Just from listening to him, I got the impression that he felt like he had certain expectations and they weren't met.  One of those expectations was getting those draft picks signed.  He made it sound as though Purp should've known what these two players would ask for.  Basically, don't draft guys that won't sign for the slotted amount.  He used Minnesota as a team that gets it done every year.  

[PenceMania]

McLane was just on with Justice and he cited other GMs who haven't had a problem signing draft picks for slotted money. 

I think there is more to this than we know.

of course there is more to this than we know.  pravtaa wants you to believe that drayton is making decisions based on fan polling.  he's probably stupid enough to actually believe that jibberish but it ain't the case.  drayton is smart and knows what to say and when to appease fans and marketing but he isn't making baseball decisions based on fan opinion.

[MusicMan]

drayton is smart and knows what to say and when to appease fans and marketing but he isn't making baseball decisions based on fan opinion.

I would love to think that this is true, but his actions have demonstrated otherwise.

[strosrays]

Dead pets and poisonous spinach.  But, it's all at low, low prices.

His best buddy from Wal-Mart is David Glass.  Maybe McLane admires the way Glass has run the Royals since he purchased them.

[HurricaneDavid]

pravtaa wants you to believe that drayton is making decisions based on fan polling.

Actually, Drayton is the one who wants us to believe he is making decisions based on fan polling, because it's what he said.

[tophfar]

Be curious what IP it was posted from... registered to the Astros?

or maybe to the Chron....

[pravata]

of course there is more to this than we know.  pravtaa wants you to believe that drayton is making decisions based on fan polling.  he's probably stupid enough to actually believe that jibberish but it ain't the case.  drayton is smart and knows what to say and when to appease fans and marketing but he isn't making baseball decisions based on fan opinion.

Only because that's what he said. 

[PenceMania]

I would love to think that this is true, but his actions have demonstrated otherwise.

you mean his action of firing a general manager who clearly wasn't getting the job done? 

[Limey]

of course there is more to this than we know.  pravtaa wants you to believe that drayton is making decisions based on fan polling.  he's probably stupid enough to actually believe that jibberish but it ain't the case.  drayton is smart and knows what to say and when to appease fans and marketing but he isn't making baseball decisions based on fan opinion.

pravata isn't making this up.  It is what Drayton actually said.

[Taras Bulba]

From the astros.com article:

Which is the step for crawfishing--i forget.  If his decision was *entirely* driven by fan/media sentiment, then he's an idiot.  I don't think he is, therefore, I think there was more that went into the decision than what is advertised.  Do I have anything to substantiate it?  No, just that he's fairly bright and has done pretty well for himself running a bidness.

[Limey]

or maybe to the Chron....

Or, if irony is to be fully employed, Wikipedia.

[MusicMan]

you mean his action of firing a general manager who clearly wasn't getting the job done? 

1.  Jimy Williams - booed at 2004 All-Star Game; fired the day following.
2.  Tim Purpura - booed at 2007 ceremony to retire Jeff Bagwell's number; fired the day following.
3.  Hunter Pence - called up to majors over Tim Purpura's objections.
4.  Craig Biggio - re-signed over Gerry Hunsicker's objections.

Should I keep going?

[Limey]

1.  Jimy Williams - booed at 2004 All-Star Game; fired the day following.
2.  Tim Purpura - booed at 2007 ceremony to retire Jeff Bagwell's number; fired the day following.
3.  Hunter Pence - called up to majors over Tim Purpura's objections.
4.  Craig Biggio - re-signed over Gerry Hunsicker's objections.

Should I keep going?

Jay Powell  - booed for inducing a crucial slow grounder that Biggio couldn't coral; gone, if not the next day, then within very few days thereafter.

[pravata]

Which is the step for crawfishing--i forget.  If his decision was *entirely* driven by fan/media sentiment, then he's an idiot.  I don't think he is, therefore, I think there was more that went into the decision than what is advertised.  Do I have anything to substantiate it?  No, just that he's fairly bright and has done pretty well for himself running a bidness.

Hold up.  Who's crawfishing?  Mclane said he talked to fans for two years.  Made a deal of it in the press conference.  Of course he also talked about the Jennings trade, negative there for Purpura for not being psychic.  Slot money, do what I say not what I... what? Drayton?  And Pence not getting enough time in the minors to learn how to slide.  That one is jaw dropping.  So yes, he did mention other factors. 

[pravata]

Jay Powell  - booed for inducing a crucial slow grounder that Biggio couldn't coral; gone, if not the next day, then within very few days thereafter.

Corral.  Or did you mean that Biggio has the range of coral? (Also Jose Lima, also if not for some fancy footwork this season, Brad Lidge)

[Limey]

Corral.  Or did you mean that Biggio has the range of coral? (Also Jose Lima, also if not for some fancy footwork this season, Brad Lidge)

Yes.

[MusicMan]

Also: Team Bastard, negotiating with over objections of Hun.

[PenceMania]

pravata isn't making this up.  It is what Drayton actually said.

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

[Limey]

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

So we only take a face value what Drayton says when it concurs with what you think.  Otherwise it's BS.

Got it.

[MusicMan]

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

If you had actually paid attention - I don't know, read something here, ever; strike that, read something more intellectually challenging than Mad Magazine, ever - you would know that (a) pravata has stated, multiple times, that he forms his opinions from the public record; and that (b) several people posting here do have some level of "inside insight".

[S.P. Rodriguez]

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

Nice, I see you are evolving into the ankle biting tactic.  Now it's pravata's fault for not seeing thru the b.s.  Oh, what a brilliant marketer McLane is.  Baffle them with bullshit and dazzle them with what?  Please, enlighten the rest of us who so obviously fail to see the truth thru the propaganda.  Please, lead us oh brilliant one...

[Taras Bulba]

Hold up.  Who's crawfishing?  Mclane said he talked to fans for two years.  Made a deal of it in the press conference.  Of course he also talked about the Jennings trade, negative there for Purpura for not being psychic.  Slot money, do what I say not what I... what? Drayton?  And Pence not getting enough time in the minors to learn how to slide.  That one is jaw dropping.  So yes, he did mention other factors. 

You misunderstand, pravata: I'm the goddamn crawfish, among other things.  Just didn't make myself clear.  Carry on.

[pravata]

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

One of the ways that one sifts through the BS is to remember how someone's actions and public statements have fit together in the past.  Mclane has a long history of getting rid of people who "embarass" him. 

[Jacksonian]

yes and he is obviously stupid enough to take it to the bank.  as a third party who has no inside insight you have to be smart enough to sift through the BS.  you have to be really stupid to not be able to see through this or not so stupid and just overly eager to throw a temper tantrum because your boy was fired.  was Puppy pravta's cousin?

Troll.

[pravata]

You misunderstand, pravata: I'm the goddamn crawfish, among other things.  Just didn't make myself clear.  Carry on.

mmmmm.... crawfishalicious.

[Ty in Tampa]

i recognize the no capitalization, the ankle-biting approach. but now he's on drayton's side. i don't get it. why now?

[PenceMania]

(a) pravata has stated, multiple times, that he forms his opinions from the public record; and that (b) several people posting here do have some level of "inside insight".

(a)then don't be surprised when your opinions are off base.  you cannot judge the organization based on what is stated in public record.  that is beyond naive.

(b)please.  do you have any idea how many people have "some level" of inside insight into this ball club?

[tophfar]

i recognize the no capitalization, the ankle-biting approach. but now he's on drayton's side. i don't get it. why now?

so your saying the IP is from Enron?

[MusicMan]

(a)then don't be surprised when your opinions are off base.  you cannot judge the organization based on what is stated in public record.  that is beyond naive.

As pravata stated - you can see if their public statements are trustworthy.

(b)please.  do you have any idea how many people have "some level" of inside insight into this ball club?

I know what sources some folks have, and the degree to which they have proven reliable in the facts.  You, on the other hand, have the voices in your head.

[pravata]

(a)then don't be surprised when your opinions are off base.  you cannot judge the organization based on what is stated in public record.  that is beyond naive.

(b)please.  do you have any idea how many people have "some level" of inside insight into this ball club?

Naive? Maybe.  Literate? Definitely.  What I wrote was, listen to what they say, compare it to what they do.  Not sure what other method is available.

[homer]

1.  Jimy Williams - booed at 2004 All-Star Game; fired the day following.
2.  Tim Purpura - booed at 2007 ceremony to retire Jeff Bagwell's number; fired the day following.
3.  Hunter Pence - called up to majors over Tim Purpura's objections.
4.  Craig Biggio - re-signed over Gerry Hunsicker's objections.

Should I keep going?

Pupura was booed just as heavily two weeks ago at Biggio's thing.

[pravata]

Pupura was booed just as heavily two weeks ago at Biggio's thing.

Right, which is how Mclane can say that the boos at the Bagwell thing didn't cause his decision.  It was the boos at the Biggio thing.

[The Spleen]

I think the root of this is Drayton's ego. That connects with the (bad) fans in a couple of ways:

-Drayton craves respect and attention. He cannot tolerate being disliked.
-A lot of the really dysfunctional fans are not the proverbial basement dwellers but hard charging professionals and businessmen, people with little patience and even less tolerance for human failings. They believe that things go wrong just because you aren't working hard enough, that there is somebody to blame for every misfortune and that they can punish their way out of any problem. See Memorial, Howard in. This mindset syncs with Drayton's own. By pleasing these people he pleases himself...

[Noe]

Stop buying tickets, merchandise, and anything else that channels money directly from myself to McLane.  I'll still watch because I pay for cable for other reasons but I'm not going to any games anytime soon.

That is already going to happen when the fans and media that he and Gardner listened to will turn on them.    We, the OWA itself, is just a witness to all this.  We, the OWA does not petition nor involve itself in such matters.  We're not the story.  We watch the story play itself out.

And in all things, we hope for the best and brace for the worse... and still enjoy baseball.

[Lefty]

-A lot of the really dysfunctional fans are not the proverbial basement dwellers but hard charging professionals and businessmen, people with little patience and even less tolerance for human failings. They believe that things go wrong just because you aren't working hard enough, that there is somebody to blame for every misfortune and that they can punish their way out of any problem. See Memorial, Howard in. This mindset syncs with Drayton's own. By pleasing these people he pleases himself...

Excellent point.

[Noe]

You've picked a bad time and a bad way to make your first post.  This is not about the firings.  Firings happen, although the way this one was done has reporters flipping through their records to find an instance when the GM and Manager were fired at the same time.  This is amateur hour at a time when the team needs someone who knows what they are doing.  If the team makes decisions just to appease the fans, that is what will ruin this team.  Gerry Hunsicker gave a crap what the fans thought and was willing to tell them so.  Tim Purpura said several times, this is not fantasy baseball.   Unfortunately, the owner of this team thinks marketing is baseball.

That's just stubby coming back to post his tripe again.  He'll be gone for good now.

[Nate in IA]

Right, which is how Mclane can say that the boos at the Bagwell thing didn't cause his decision.  It was the boos at the Biggio thing.

I think the thing that Drayton isn't telling us is that he reads Maxim and makes his decisions based on that.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

That is already going to happen when the fans and media that he and Gardner listened to will turn on them.    We, the OWA itself, is just a witness to all this.  We, the OWA does not petition nor involve itself in such matters.  We're not the story.  We watch the story play itself out.

And in all things, we hope for the best and brace for the worse... and still enjoy baseball.

I understand that.  I'm just struggling with bracing myself for the type of baseball I am anticipating. 

[JimR]

Which is the step for crawfishing--i forget.  If his decision was *entirely* driven by fan/media sentiment, then he's an idiot.  I don't think he is, therefore, I think there was more that went into the decision than what is advertised.  Do I have anything to substantiate it?  No, just that he's fairly bright and has done pretty well for himself running a bidness.

that's just it--he's running a business, not a professional baseball team.

you're not wrong often, imo, but you are way wrong here.

[JimR]

oh what a bunch of crap from a no doubt spoiled rotten little twirp.  astros have always been a great organization and this personnel change is the first step to an even greater organization.  don't pay attention if you don't want to, but its your loss.  this team was headed nowhere but south under Puppy's hand.  this is a great day for my Astros.  hopefully your mommy has got your bottle warm now so maybe you will calm down.

go fuck yourself, stubby. i figured it was you, and Noe has confirmed it. bye-bye for good.

[strosrays]

That's just stubby coming back to post his tripe again.  He'll be gone for good now.

Is this verified?  Because that was my first thought, but then I wondered if maybe I was getting a little jumpy.

If it is him, then he has verified himself as a true troll, and not just another guy with an extreme hard-on for JimR.

[MusicMan]

go fuck yourself, stubby. i figured it was you, and Noe has confirmed it. bye-bye for good.

And here I was, replying like the guy might actually learn something.

[PenceMania]

go fuck yourself, stubby. i figured it was you, and Noe has confirmed it. bye-bye for good.

you fuck yourself, you little cry baby twat dander.  name is not stubby.  you've apparently got more enemies than Carter's got pills.  imagine that.

[Noe]

Excellent point.

People who work for McLane in his other businesses say he is the same there as he's displaying now with his baseball team.

[Noe]

Would you, pravata, Jacksonian, Noe, any of you feel differently if this happened at the end of the year?  Is it the 131 games in thing or would it have mattered?

Have you read anything I've said?

[HudsonHawk]

you fuck yourself, you little cry baby twat dander.  name is not stubby.  you've apparently got more enemies than Carter's got pills.  imagine that.

"twat dander" is pretty damn funny.  But lighten up, Francis.

[Noe]

Since I am not privy to any inside sources on Gardner's role, I'll just assume for the purposes of this post that her influence has increased and Drayton is making decisions based on both her input and public opinion.

If this is so, it can only be temporary, because at the heart of fan bitching is wins and losses.  Drayton may lose sight of this and be presently making decisions on fan input, but in a couple of years, if the losses are piling up, he will either replay yesterday's actions or step back and realize that his core concern is wins, and that the best way to get wins is to let baseball decisions be made by baseball people.  In short, Drayton might be temporarily insane, but ultimately, he is a businessman, and he will realize that less Drayton and Gardner means more wins and more money for Drayton.  I don't think the franchise is at the edge of long-term demise.

Well said.

[Noe]

I don't object to the firings.  The timing is odd.  Ausmus says that Garner in no way "lost the team".  It's the philosophy that Mclane stated which I think is headed for disaster.

Eggszactly and good for Ausmus for countering the obvious about the Scrap Iron firing.  It is being met with some skeptical eyes in the MLB landscape because it doesn't make sense especially because of the timing.  Fired after a series loss to the Pirates?  Fans couldn't handle it and they bitch to McLane while he's walking the concourse and so that's the reason?

It's a huge joke right now.

[Arky Vaughan]

you fuck yourself, you little cry baby twat dander.  name is not stubby.  you've apparently got more enemies than Carter's got pills.  imagine that.

I might suggest laying off a bit.

[MusicMan]

It's a huge joke right now.

Don't you dare insult my favorite basebawl team!!!11!

Mommy!!

[Noe]

I hope so.  But, given the state of local reporting, we'll probably never know.  Mclane snapped at Footer for asking this very question. 

Eggszactly.  The local media is being handed a huge story by McLane on a silver platter and they're confused as to what they should do with it.

Nice.  It takes national media like Stark to raise an eyebrow and say "hmmmmmm...." to this dog that won't hunt.  Again, McLane has a right to fire anyone at any time for any reason.  But what he's saying is the key right now and the local guys aren't jumping on it... yet?

[PenceMania]

I might suggest laying off a bit.

might I suggest calling off your whiny ass, ill-trained chihuahua before he chews a hole through my boot?  that would certainly help matters.

[Lefty]

People who work for McLane in his other businesses say he is the same there as he's displaying now with his baseball team.

Not surprising at all.  I was commenting on the nature of the bitching fan.  From my experience, there's just as many (if not more) of the hyper-competitive corporate types as there are of the joe 6 pack variety.

[Jacksonian]

That's just stubby coming back to post his tripe again.  He'll be gone for good now.

When?

[MusicMan]

When?

When will then be now??

Soon.

How soon?

[94CougarGrad]

Stop buying tickets, merchandise, and anything else that channels money directly from myself to McLane.  I'll still watch because I pay for cable for other reasons but I'm not going to any games anytime soon.

Sunday afternoon, my husband told me to get tickets for tonight's opener against the Cardinals. We'd take the kids to a fun-for-the-family ball game and let 'em fall asleep in the car on the way home from what was hopefully a great win.

Yesterday afternoon, after I logged on here and saw what the hell'd happened, I called him and gave him the news. His first reaction was one of surprise, which quickly changed... he told me to forget buying tix for McLane's game tonight. We'll watch the game on cable, thank you, which we already pay for.

Now to go back and read the rest of the thread... some knucklehead with "mania" in his handle just called Jim a "spoiled rotten little twirp" and I must see where that went...

[HudsonHawk]

might I suggest calling off your whiny ass, ill-trained chihuahua before he chews a hole through my boot?  that would certainly help matters.

Here's more than a suggestion...knock it off.  Now.

[Phil_in_CS]

....just another guy with an extreme hard-on for JimR.

I'm normally the type to say to each his own, NTTAWWT, etc, but that image is disturbing...

[Noe]

I understand that.  I'm just struggling with bracing myself for the type of baseball I am anticipating. 

Same here.

[Noe]

Not surprising at all.  I was commenting on the nature of the bitching fan.  From my experience, there's just as many (if not more) of the hyper-competitive corporate types as there are of the joe 6 pack variety.

Eggszactly correct.  It may surprise folks who bends McLane's ear and what stupidity in terms of baseball acumen comes out of their mouths.  I'm sure McLane knows how to ignore the drunken Joe Six Pack types.  But the corporate guys?  I dunno.

[Jose Cruz III]

i recognize the no capitalization, the ankle-biting approach. but now he's on drayton's side. i don't get it. why now?

Because Drayton did what he wanted. He believes that when a team has a bad year that the GM and Mgr. should be fired. When you don't know what your talking about the information superhighway is there for the picking. And it tells you in two paragraphs what to think. Kinda like that dude was telling me I was about the pit bulls the other day.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

you fuck yourself, you little cry baby twat dander.  name is not stubby.  you've apparently got more enemies than Carter's got pills.  imagine that.

And we have our next member of the Slowpoke Ignore list... woooo hoooooooo!  Go away troll

[JimR]

When?

my question exactly. it just depends on who this kind of crap is directed at, and i have had about enough of it.

[94CougarGrad]

might I suggest calling off your whiny ass, ill-trained chihuahua before he chews a hole through my boot?  that would certainly help matters.

A sarcastic suggestion from a rude newbie troll... that'll add points to your posting record and increase your premiums. Might wanna call your insurance agent after lunch.

Take your head out of Drayton's rectum and read a while. You might learn a few things at this place.

[tophfar]

Because Drayton did what he wanted. He believes that when a team has a bad year that the GM and Mgr. should be fired. When you don't know what your talking about the information superhighway is there for the picking. And it tells you in two paragraphs what to think. Kinda like that dude was telling me I was about the pit bulls the other day.

So Pravata's NYCU is completely worthless and unreliable because his sources for it are from the internet?

What people cannot escape from is that when presented with information they cannot comprehend nor counter with anything approaching intelligence, they revert to a form of Ad Hom, attacking the source of the information without being able to argue about what was actually presented before them.

And the worts part about it is the bitter irony, of complaining ABOUT the internet, while posting ON the internet.

Yet, you could not see the inherent hypocrisy and contradictions of your earlier statements, so I'm going to assume that you have not grown any smarter in the interim week.

You are nothing but a troll and ankle biter.  I had nothing to do with this thread or post, and yet you had to drag me into this. 

[MusicMan]

Yet, you could not see the inherent hypocrisy and contradictions of your earlier statements, so I'm going to assume that you have not grown any smarter in the interim week.

Both of his synapses are still working on the whole "8 of the last 9 execs of the year had no prior GM experience" thing.

[pravata]

Because Drayton did what he wanted. He believes that when a team has a bad year that the GM and Mgr. should be fired. When you don't know what your talking about the information superhighway is there for the picking. And it tells you in two paragraphs what to think. Kinda like that dude was telling me I was about the pit bulls the other day.

Sources.  What is the source of the information?  OWA is on the Web, Wall St Journal, and the New York Times are also on the Web.  You judge credibility by the past history of the source.  Saying you saw something "on the internet" is exactly like saying you heard it "on the phone".  Who were you talking to?

[JimR]

might I suggest calling off your whiny ass, ill-trained chihuahua before he chews a hole through my boot?  that would certainly help matters.

fuck off.

[jeffrey]

And Pence not getting enough time in the minors to learn how to slide. 

Did McLane actually say something to this effect at the press conference? 

[JimR]

Did McLane actually say something to this effect at the press conference? 

i think he did.

[DVauthrin]

i think he did.

Then how can Drayton not see the contradiction between that statement and firing his GM/Manager?   He overrides purpura and calls pence up(pandering to some fans), but then admits he needed more time in the minors to work on a nuisance of the game. 

[JimR]

Look dude. There are no hard feelings here. Didn't mean to drag you in to this. My point the other day is that pit bulls, among other breeds are dangerous dogs. You said bad dogs have bad owners. I'm not saying you're wrong. Unfortunately, when I come upon a dog that has the size and the muscular body to take me to the ground and rip out my throat, I can't ask him if he has a good owner.

I never advocated killing them. But I did say I wish they were illegal to own. I can see where you made the connection. You posted links to show me where there are some great pit bulls out there. I never doubted that. I posted links that said they could actually make me dead. At the end of the day, we just disagree on what kind of pets we want around the house. No harm, no foul in that.

You, or someone in that thread, felt that the media dictated my thoughts on the matter. Can't say you're wrong there either. But that is the point I was making. When a team starts losing the "analysts" start talking about the manager getting fired, etc. and people that can't see past that their players are the greatest on earth buy in.

No harm or ankle biting intended.

there is a PM feature here.

[pravata]

Did McLane actually say something to this effect at the press conference? 

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=103641.msg156766#new

[Jose Cruz III]

Sources.  What is the source of the information?  OWA is on the Web, Wall St Journal, and the New York Times are also on the Web.  You judge credibility by the past history of the source.  Saying you saw something "on the internet" is exactly like saying you heard it "on the phone".  Who were you talking to?

I was talking to Ty. He wondered why this guy is suddenly on Drayton's side. It was because Drayton did what he agreed should happen. But I personally thought Garner did a good job when he had the parts to use. I don't know enough about the inner workings of a GM/owner relationship to know if Pup did a good job or not. Although I do not believe he is at fault for what he keeps getting hammered for (Jennings trade).

My point was that when a team tanks like the Stros did this year, the talking heads on TV, in newspapers, and on the net will start discussing a coach's job. And some of them haven't seen 3 innings of an Astro game this year. And if you listen to those people you will have a different view of things than folks that have sit in the park, or on TV for that matter, and watched it all unfold all year long or for years for that matter.

[Jose Cruz III]

there is a PM feature here.

Taken care of.

[Limey]

When will then be now??

Soon.

How soon?

How soon is now?

[Limey]

And the worts part about it is the bitter irony, of complaining ABOUT the internet, while posting ON the internet.

...and *poof*, the internet disappeared in a puff of logic.

[pravata]

 

I was talking to Ty. He wondered why this guy is suddenly on Drayton's side. It was because Drayton did what he agreed should happen. But I personally thought Garner did a good job when he had the parts to use. I don't know enough about the inner workings of a GM/owner relationship to know if Pup did a good job or not. Although I do not believe he is at fault for what he keeps getting hammered for (Jennings trade).

My point was that when a team tanks like the Stros did this year, the talking heads on TV, in newspapers, and on the net will start discussing a coach's job. And some of them haven't seen 3 innings of an Astro game this year. And if you listen to those people you will have a different view of things than folks that have sit in the park, or on TV for that matter, and watched it all unfold all year long or for years for that matter.

There was also the "some say" talk regarding Randy Smith as the new GM.  Obvious now that was bilge.   I've been working on what was going on with Jason Jennings in 2006.  All I've seen is that he got "tired" at the end of the season.  Ringolsby, despite his revisionisms about his bullpens, called Jennings "a durable and solid pitcher," Link That was 12/22/2006

[jeffrey]

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=103641.msg156766#new

Wow.  At first I thought you meant that McLane had finally admitted "he" was the one that wanted Pence brought up, and was boasting Pence's relative success as another strike against Purpura.  I can't believe he actually twisted it around to mean the opposite.

[Ty in Tampa]

I was talking to Ty...

Don't drag me into it. You didn't even get my lame attempt at IDing our troll.

[The Third Man]

The email is spot on. Drayton talks about leadership incessantly but displays almost none. Leadership may be about taking decisive action and will, but it is also about setting an example, knowing your limitations and trusting your team.

[Rammer33]

His defense was a bigger issue and being worked on primarily.  Folks tend to think Pence came up a huge prospect somehow.  His original status was that of "needs work to become a decent left fielder".  He was never a come right out of the box high ceiling prospect.

I am familiar with Pence as a college player and I remember thinking the stros reached a bit on him when he was drafted ... what the hell do I know …

Either way his sliding isn’t enough of an issue in itself to hold him back once he’s reach AAA - but its something that probably should have been addressed in some form or fashion prior if it was a significant concern … maybe it wasn’t a concern or maybe Pence wasn’t receptive to the adjustment … but I doubt either of those was the case (I don’t believe this is the first time Pence has injured his wrist sliding) … Pence was a project to be sure, but it should have been addressed in the 3 years prior … its not like asking him to completely re invent his swing  …   

[Duman]

You can work on things in practice over and over again but we tend to resort to things we are comfortable with when under pressure.  Therefore, it is very likely they worked on this in the minors and Pence just regressed back to his way old way of doing things.

[Jose Cruz III]

There was also the "some say" talk regarding Randy Smith as the new GM.  Obvious now that was bilge.   I've been working on what was going on with Jason Jennings in 2006.  All I've seen is that he got "tired" at the end of the season.  Ringolsby, despite his revisionisms about his bullpens, called Jennings "a durable and solid pitcher," Link That was 12/22/2006

Drayton obviously has a "win-now" philoshophy. And the fan in me appreciates that. But from some things TP, not ESPN but TP himself, said when he took over and the weeks and months following, theres no way he would have traded those players for a very possible 1 year solution at #2. If he had club control of Jennings for a couple of years or three maybe. But not as it was. I honestly do not even believe he would have signed Woody. But that is just going off things he said. And going off things he has said, I think if he had had his way the rotation would have been much different.

[Jose Cruz III]

Don't drag me into it. You didn't even get my lame attempt at IDing our troll.

Actually I did. And raised you a lame attempt at siding with you.

[strosrays]

The email is spot on. Drayton talks about leadership incessantly but displays almost none. Leadership may be about taking decisive action and will, but it is also about setting an example, knowing your limitations and trusting your team.

Cooper made a statement yesterday, I don't remember it verbatim, but it was something to the effect that Drayton is constantly walking up to people in the office and asking, "What are you going to do today to be a champion?"  Something like that.

And suddenly it hit me.  That's bullshit straight out of a Dale Carnegie course.  His idea of running the team is how to win friends and influence people.

[Limey]

Cooper made a statement yesterday, I don't remember it verbatim, but it was something to the effect that Drayton is constantly walking up to people in the office and asking, "What are you going to do today to be a champion?"  Something like that.

And suddenly it hit me.  That's bullshit straight out of a Dale Carnegie course.  His idea of running the team is how to win friends and influence people.

It's like the rah-rah corporate family crap they pull at WalMart.  My company is trying to do it too, telling me that I shouldn't even think about leaving my "family" because when my career's over my friendships with ex-co-workers is all I'll have.  I told them that they should pay me more or I'll leave so that when I retire I'll have cash to go along with my friendships with ex-co-workers.

It's bullshit masquerading as management.

[JGrave]

Have you read anything I've said?

You can't possibly expect me to read every single post that's been posted on here in the last two days. 

Maybe I don't feel like being a champion today.

[BatGirl]

You can't possibly expect me to read every single post that's been posted on here in the last two days. 

Maybe I don't feel like being a champion today.

right-on. 
my own invigoration for the astros has dropped considerably over the last 24 hours

[davek]

 ...My company is trying to do it too, telling me that I shouldn't even think about leaving my "family" because when my career's over my friendships with ex-co-workers is all I'll have... 

They obviously aren't aware of all the degenerates you know from here...

[Noe]

You can't possibly expect me to read every single post that's been posted on here in the last two days. 

Maybe I don't feel like being a champion today.

Jason,

You asked *me* a specific question that I've already answered.  If you wanted my opinion(s) on something, the answer is that it's already plastered all over this forum.

[Limey]

They obviously aren't aware of all the degenerates you know from here...

I don't talk to my co-workers.  I'm too busy here.

[Arky Vaughan]

I don't talk to my co-workers.  I'm too busy here.

I thought we were you co-non-workers.

[strosrays]

I thought we were you co-non-workers.

I believe the term currently in vogue is "enablers."

[VirtualBob]

My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.

wfw  :-)

[VirtualBob]

You can't possibly expect me to read every single post that's been posted on here in the last two days. 

Obviously not.  Yet you expect everyone else to take your posts seriously when they are rooted so firmly in deliberate ignorance?  Read first, post later.  Don't want to read?  Don't post.  It's pretty simple.

[JGrave]

Obviously not.  Yet you expect everyone else to take your posts seriously when they are rooted so firmly in deliberate ignorance?  Read first, post later.  Don't want to read?  Don't post.  It's pretty simple.

Calm down tough guy.  I was only joking.

[VirtualBob]

Calm down tough guy.  I was only joking.

My bad, if so.  I had just read through umpteen pages of trollsome clarkiness, and may have missed the [sarcasm] tag.