Author Topic: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here  (Read 5243 times)

Limey

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Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« on: August 20, 2007, 07:31:28 pm »
Just tuned in for the top of the 2nd.  Was 0-0 until Jennings got careless with Pena, and he crushed one so hard that it ricocheted off the limestone and back into LF.

Wow.
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Amy

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 07:40:45 pm »
Got the Nats broadcast here.  Fabulous insight from Don Sutton about Redding's career as an Astro.

Quote
Sutton:  Interesting story told to me by some of the people who have been around the Astros for a while about Tim Redding’s stay here.  He was a power pitcher with an unhittable curveball.

Sutton:  He had one good year here, then they started moving him back and forth out of the bullpen.  And I was told when he went to the bullpen they were trying to talk him into pitching down and being a sinkerballer.  And I think that’s what we were seeing earlier where he went from being a four-seam fastball power pitcher with a lock you up curveball to a sinkerballer and a slider pitcher and I think it’s taken him a while to recover from that.

Bob-whatever:  Think the ballpark had something to do with that?  They look at a place like this and say ‘we don’t care if you’re not a sinkerball pitcher, you gotta throw one’.

Sutton:  I think it probably could.

Sutton:  But if you don’t watch it, you could get caught in a dilemma there where you pitch away from your stuff trying to pitch away from the ballpark.  And I don’t think you can change and be successful changing your identity as a pitcher.  Like people have personalities, pitchers have identities too and their stuff and their delivery dictates how they should pitch.  If you give up 38 homeruns in a ballpark like this being a power pitcher, make sure 30 of them are solo shots.

homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 07:54:28 pm »
Fuck.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 07:58:34 pm »
Fuck.

For Jennings' own sake, I hope he's hurt.  Otherwise, he just blows.
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homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 07:59:39 pm »
For Jennings' own sake, I hope he's hurt.  Otherwise, he just blows.

Got to be something, because he just keeps pumping sliders in there. And each one is a little flatter than the one before.
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austro

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 08:00:50 pm »
Hey, things are getting better: he kept Pena in the park that time.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 08:02:00 pm »
At least the ATL is schtupping the Reds tonight.
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homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 08:02:01 pm »
Hey, things are getting better: he kept Pena in the park that time.

1st pitch swinging. He didn't wait around for his hanger.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 08:02:29 pm »
At least the ATL is schtupping the Reds tonight.

Uh, really... does that matter at all?
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 08:03:37 pm »
1st pitch swinging. He didn't wait around for his hanger.

Which is probably why, despite all he has, he still bounces around the league.
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Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 08:05:09 pm »
Uh, really... does that matter at all?

As I just posted in the main room, the 4th-placed Astros are closer to last than 3rd.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2007, 08:06:17 pm »
As I just posted in the main room, the 4th-placed Astros are closer to last than 3rd.

Yeah, that is the part that really doesn't matter to me.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 08:07:10 pm »
FWIW, I agree with keeping Jennings in this game.  The bullpen will be needed for Roy's start, so let this chump stay in there and deal with the shit pile he's built.
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homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2007, 08:09:32 pm »
FWIW, I agree with keeping Jennings in this game.  The bullpen will be needed for Roy's start, so let this chump stay in there and deal with the shit pile he's built.

If he is hurt, why isn't he on the shelf?
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2007, 08:11:04 pm »
If he is hurt, why isn't he on the shelf?

He says he's not, so there's no need to take him out.

If he's hiding something...fuck him.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2007, 08:24:15 pm »
Offense making some noise.  Let's see if we can give Redding one of his patented brain cramps.
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Amy

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2007, 08:26:52 pm »
Offense making some noise.  Let's see if we can give Redding one of his patented brain cramps.

That's what I'm hoping for.  Getting beat by a bad team is insult enough without getting shutout by Redding.

homer

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2007, 08:28:35 pm »
Luke can be frustrating to watch.
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austro

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2007, 08:31:44 pm »
Luke can be frustrating to watch.

He fits right in with most of the rest of the team.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2007, 08:32:21 pm »
That's what I'm hoping for.  Getting beat by a bad team is insult enough without getting shutout by Redding.

Bugger
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Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2007, 08:52:36 pm »
Redding's offspeed stuff now looking very hittable.  Hopefully the bats won't fuck up a good position two innings in a row.
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Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2007, 08:53:47 pm »
Redding's offspeed stuff now looking very hittable.  Hopefully the bats won't fuck up a good position two innings in a row.

If hopes were nuts or something something.
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Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2007, 08:59:30 pm »
Tie goes to the runner.  1B ump did the Astros a nice favour there.
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Noe

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2007, 09:10:41 pm »
Just turned on the television... so did Jennings just look horrible tonight (obviously he was horrible, but how did he pitch?  Bad luck or bad pitching?).

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2007, 09:13:42 pm »
Just turned on the television... so did Jennings just look horrible tonight (obviously he was horrible, but how did he pitch?  Bad luck or bad pitching?).

Bad pitching.  In spades.
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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2007, 09:24:22 pm »
Got the Nats broadcast here.  Fabulous insight from Don Sutton about Redding's career as an Astro.

The problem with Timah's four seamer approach with curveball is that he would exhaust his pitches trying so hard to strike everyone out that he would just barely make it to the fifth inning.  A major leaguer who you feed four seamers all the time will simply foul the ball off.  So what Timah was used to throwing in AA and AAA to strike out guys was basically a foul ball pitch in the majors.  In essence, if you're just going to pitch north in the zone and ignore the south, that eliminates one part of the plate for the hitter.  Major leaguers will simply foul balls away high in the zone until you bring it down and then they explode on your pitch.  That pretty much makes the curveball a pitch you spit on.  A sinkerball or two seamer makes it easier for you to pitch south with your fastball and also will help you maintain quick innings instead of 20-25 pitch innings.  Jason Hirsh, for example, learned how to pitch effectively in the minor using the four seamer, changeup and sinker ball.  He had short innings because minor leaguers would try to square his sinkerball and just when they were not expecting it, he would bust them upstairs.  Hirsh is a much more polished pitcher coming into the majors than Redding was when he came up.

There is a difference between pitching and throwing.

For example, Roy Oswalt was a four seamer/curveball pitcher like Redding in AA.  He was taught by Pitching Coach Maddux the value of going ahead and having shorter pitch counts per inning by using a sinkerball.  To this day, Oswalt will tell you that this changed his approach and prepared him to be a major leaguer. It worked for Oswalt and Redding did not listen to Maddux who tried to help him do the same.  Redding had more talent than Oswalt in the minors, but he was striking out guys in the minors with his four seamer while Oswalt was learning how to be a major leaguer.  By the time Redding came up to the majors, he was getting gassed by the fourth inning with pitch counts in the high 80s and 90s... four freaking innings is all he could manage because that four seamer that was unhittable in the minors became a pitch major leaguers just simply wasted until Timah threw it over the plate.

So while Sutton is correct what the Astros tried to do with Redding, he's wrong about it being the Astros who were (implied) incorrect in that approach.  Oswalt is exhibit A that it's a very sound approach.  Redding merely exhibited a stubborn nature about it all and he has no one but himself to blame for his less than Oswaltian rise to the major leagues.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 09:27:41 pm by Noe in Austin »

Amy

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2007, 09:34:29 pm »
So while Sutton is correct what the Astros tried to do with Redding, he's wrong about it being the Astros who were (implied) incorrect in that approach.  Oswalt is exhibit A that it's a very sound approach.  Redding merely exhibited a stubborn nature about it all and he has no one but himself to blame for his less than Oswaltian rise to the major leagues.

Just for the record, I was being sarcastic.  In addition to your analysis, Redding's problem was being a total headcase and letting a bad call, misplay by a fielder or just bad luck make him angry and he would let the game get away from him.

Limey

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2007, 09:40:15 pm »
The Gnats' Vick (no relation) looks like a lefty Pence.
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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2007, 12:33:52 am »
Milo, in reaction to a comment about the Astros looking sluggish: "This is what happens when the luggage doesn't make the connecting flight."
And, by the way, f*** off. --Mr. Happy, with a tip of the cap to JimR
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Duman

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Re: Gnats at Astros 8/20: Tell Them Willy Mo Was Here
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2007, 08:08:38 am »
Milo, in reaction to a comment about the Astros looking sluggish: "This is what happens when the luggage doesn't make the connecting flight."

This team's issues has more to do with Baggage than with luggage.
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