September

[Jacksonian]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070731&content_id=2121018&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"There are four pitchers at least we want to take a look at and see if they can help us in September," Purpura said.

He's also going to be spending his time at Round Rock and Corpus during the Astros current road trip to have a looksee.

These are the pitchers on the 40-man who are not on the Astros and not injured:  Ascencio, Barthmaier, Estrada, Gutierrez, Paulino.

There is space on the 40-man to add players.  Here are the ones at AAA that I can see a possible callups that fit what Purp is talking about: Douglass, Patton, Reineke, Barzilla, Gothreaux, Randolph, and no one at AA that I see.

[Duman]

The statesman today had their top 5 potential callups at Round Rock:

Patton, Gutierrez, Anderson, Ransom, & Conrad

I would say Patton, Gutierrez are likely.  Ransom as maybe and Anderson & Conrad as unlikely.

[Taras Bulba]

Randolph--haven't they seen enough of him this season?

[Jacksonian]

Randolph--haven't they seen enough of him this season?

Purp said help us in September, not audition for next year.  So I threw out the possiblities to help finish the year.  My guess on the 4: Estrada, Gutierrez, Patton, Reineke.  Paulino may get in too.

[Uncle Charlie]

I'd like to see Towles up as well for a "taste" of the bigs.  I understand that he's probably a late 2008 to early 2009 guy.  Taking away the shock value of the bigs as well as creating additional desire to get there may help when he's asked to come to stay.

[Matt]

I think they should go ahead and bring Paulino up.

[Duman]

I'd like to see Towles up as well for a "taste" of the bigs.  I understand that he's probably a late 2008 to early 2009 guy.  Taking away the shock value of the bigs as well as creating additional desire to get there may help when he's asked to come to stay.

I think he will get that in Spring Training next year verses a Sept. call up

[Duman]

I think they should go ahead and bring Paulino up.

Why?  1-5 with a 4.93 over his last 10 starts.  His last two starts have been better but he has done poorly overall this year at AA.  Gutierrez should be the first up IMO.

[94CougarGrad]

I'd like to see Towles up as well for a "taste" of the bigs.  I understand that he's probably a late 2008 to early 2009 guy.  Taking away the shock value of the bigs as well as creating additional desire to get there may help when he's asked to come to stay.

I also think Towles is a ST guy. I dunno that Purp and company would yo-yo him between the teams unless they bring him up to the big game, he proves not to be what they'd hoped, and they ship him back down to the farm in favor of some experienced catcher who performs nearly as poorly.

[Matt]

Why?  1-5 with a 4.93 over his last 10 starts.  His last two starts have been better but he has done poorly overall this year at AA.  Gutierrez should be the first up IMO.

Because it doesn't hurt to that's why.

[legs_of_eggs]

I'd like to see Towles up as well for a "taste" of the bigs.  I understand that he's probably a late 2008 to early 2009 guy.  Taking away the shock value of the bigs as well as creating additional desire to get there may help when he's asked to come to stay.

I agree, let him play sponge next to Ausmus just in case he retires. We could be looking at Munson/Quintero as a catching combo in 08.

[Duman]

Because it doesn't hurt to that's why.

Getting moved up before you are ready can hurt several things:

1.  The players confidence
2. The confidence of other players who were more ready and were passed over.
3.  The trust relationship between players and management that says: if I perform, I will get a shot.
4.  The bottom line.  Sending players who aren't ready isn't fun baseball to watch, that often results in empty seats. 

That is the quick list of the things it can hurt.

[Fredia]

Getting moved up before you are ready can hurt several things:

1.  The players confidence
2. The confidence of other players who were more ready and were passed over.
3.  The trust relationship between players and management that says: if I perform, I will get a shot.
4.  The bottom line.  Sending players who aren't ready isn't fun baseball to watch, that often results in empty seats. 

That is the quick list of the things it can hurt.

agreed . would be nice if they could all move up and have the confidence and pleasure of playing the game that mr pence has shown this season

[JimR]

Because it doesn't hurt to that's why.

this is crazy.

[Ty in Tampa]

Getting moved up before you are ready can hurt several things:

1.  The players confidence
2. The confidence of other players who were more ready and were passed over.
3.  The trust relationship between players and management that says: if I perform, I will get a shot.
4.  The bottom line.  Sending players who aren't ready isn't fun baseball to watch, that often results in empty seats. 

That is the quick list of the things it can hurt.

Does their service time start on call-up or being placed on the 40-man? I can never remember.

[Jacksonian]

Does their service time start on call-up or being placed on the 40-man? I can never remember.

Call-up.

[Ty in Tampa]

Call-up.

Then I'd add that to Duman's list.

[tbone421998]

Don't you have to be on the 40 man roster to get a "call-up"?

[Ty in Tampa]

Don't you have to be on the 40 man roster to get a "call-up"?

Yes. Paulino is on the 40-man.

[Duman]

Btw in the CC paper this morning, it is reported that Paulino is being move back a few days in the rotation due to Backe's rehab start. He was to pitch today.  The fact that he is being moved back to Friday makes me wonder if there is some fatigue issues going on there.

[JimR]

Btw in the CC paper this morning, it is reported that Paulino is being move back a few days in the rotation due to Backe's rehab start. He was to pitch today.  The fact that he is being moved back to Friday makes me wonder if there is some fatigue issues going on there.

Gutierrez got rocked last night but won b/c the Express did a nice imitation of the '27 Yankees. i do not think he hit 90 all night.

[Duder]

Isn't Guti supposed to throw mid 90s?

[JimR]

Isn't Guti supposed to throw mid 90s?

he has not at RR in games i saw. may be another urban legend.

[Jacksonian]

Gutierrez got rocked last night but won b/c the Express did a nice imitation of the '27 Yankees. i do not think he hit 90 all night.

I'm not sure he's managed to make it through an entire season without missing more than a few starts.  He's made it further this season without breaking down than he has in the past.

[JimR]

I'm not sure he's managed to make it through an entire season without missing more than a few starts.  He's made it further this season without breaking down than he has in the past.

probably wearing down some.

[Jacksonian]

he has not at RR in games i saw. may be another urban legend.

Astros said he sits low-90's and can hit mid-90's occassionally back when he was in A ball.  Haven't heard a thing about it this season.

[JimR]

Astros said he sits low-90's and can hit mid-90's occassionally back when he was in A ball.  Haven't heard a thing about it this season.

last night was mostly 87-89. if he hit 90, i missed it.

[Jacksonian]

probably wearing down some.

This time last year he was on the DL for six weeks with "arm fatigue."

Stamina has been an ongoing issue with him.  He's had a reputation of laziness for several years.

[Duman]

Gutierrez got rocked last night but won b/c the Express did a nice imitation of the '27 Yankees. i do not think he hit 90 all night.

Let's hope that is just a bump in the road.  He had a good July (5 starts 2.76 era and went atleast 6 innings in every start).  OTOH, Walk numbers have climbed each month (May- 7, June 11, July 18).

[Jacksonian]

last night was mostly 87-89. if he hit 90, i missed it.

But, were his mechanics still sound?

[JimR]

But, were his mechanics still sound?

i guess so. what were his problems. he gave up 3 HRs but hung on and went 6.

is Ascencio still on the RR roster?

[Froback]

This time last year he was on the DL for six weeks with "arm fatigue."

Stamina has been an ongoing issue with him.  He's had a reputation of laziness for several years.

Not saying he doesn't, but if you don't put the work in, even in the off-season you will always have Stamina issues.

[Jacksonian]

is Ascencio still on the RR roster?

Nope.  He got demoted to Corpus.

[JimR]

This time last year he was on the DL for six weeks with "arm fatigue."

Stamina has been an ongoing issue with him.  He's had a reputation of laziness for several years.

he looks pudgy and soft. i have heard the same this year, although they thought there had been a corner turned during the season.

[Duman]

he looks pudgy and soft. i have heard the same this year, although they thought there had been a corner turned during the season.

Roster list him as 6'3" and 200.  He never looked 200 four years ago in Greeneville.  He looked soft around the middle then.

[stubbyc]

Astros said he sits low-90's and can hit mid-90's occassionally back when he was in A ball.  Haven't heard a thing about it this season.

He was throwing 93-94 when I saw him this Spring. Every scouting report I have seen has him low to mid 90s.

[JimR]

He was throwing 93-94 when I saw him this Spring. Every scouting report I have seen has him low to mid 90s.

lots of difference between 91 and 94-95

he has not thrown that hard in RR any time i saw him.

[Matt]

Getting moved up before you are ready can hurt several things:

1.  The players confidence
2. The confidence of other players who were more ready and were passed over.
3.  The trust relationship between players and management that says: if I perform, I will get a shot.
4.  The bottom line.  Sending players who aren't ready isn't fun baseball to watch, that often results in empty seats. 

That is the quick list of the things it can hurt.

Well I see talk of bringing up Estrada and Conrad who haven't had good seasons either.  Conrad is hitting about .222 and even JimR says Estrada has been bad.  Not to mention come football season in September there are going to be a lot of empty seats in MMP. 

Also, I thought September call ups don't count towards major league time or options.  Is this wrong?

[JimR]

Well I see talk of bringing up Estrada and Conrad who haven't had good seasons either.  Conrad is hitting about .222 and even JimR says Estrada has been bad.  Not to mention come football season in September there are going to be a lot of empty seats in MMP. 

Also, I thought September call ups don't count towards major league time or options.  Is this wrong?

did you "see talk" from ANY Houston Astros management source?

[WulawHorn]

Well I see talk of bringing up Estrada and Conrad who haven't had good seasons either.  Conrad is hitting about .222 and even JimR says Estrada has been bad.  Not to mention come football season in September there are going to be a lot of empty seats in MMP. 

Also, I thought September call ups don't count towards major league time or options.  Is this wrong?

No- it still counts as service time- it is just that there is not enough of it to move up your Free Agent or Arbitration clock. So there's no real penalty to the team from that standpoint to a september call up.  You do, of course, have to pay them a prorated portion of the league minimum. So bringing up 6 guys is equal, roughly speaking, to a full year at major league minimum.  Not a ton to a guy worth a billion- but hey- every couple hundred k counts I suppose.

[austro]

So there's no real penalty to the team from that standpoint to a september call up.

Will it chew up one of the option years?

[Kent's Moustache]

Will it chew up one of the option years?

Yes... although, if the player was on the 40-man roster in Spring Training, then the club has already exercised his option for this season (by sending him to the minors when the season started), such that there is no additional penalty for calling him up in September.  See, e.g., Charlton Jimerson, 2004-2006.

[Duman]

Well I see talk of bringing up Estrada and Conrad who haven't had good seasons either.  Conrad is hitting about .222 and even JimR says Estrada has been bad.  Not to mention come football season in September there are going to be a lot of empty seats in MMP. 

Also, I thought September call ups don't count towards major league time or options.  Is this wrong?

Bringing up two other players who don't deserve call ups (and probably won't get them) doesn't make your "What could it hurt" argument any stronger.